>makes Hegelianism materialistic>uncovers the secrets of capitalism>never debunked>half the people identifying as "Marxists" or critics of Marx don't even understand himAdmit it. He was one of the best modern philosophers.
>never debunked*AHEM*
>>23608811Ich mag Marx.
>>23608821He misunderstood Marx.
>>23608811What a convenient worldview.>The only people who would criticize Marx don't actually understand him.
Marx invented the gulag>As soon as I was in the house, he shut the doors, hid the key and jeered comically at me that I was his prisoner. He asked me to follow him up into his study. On arrival I sat myself down on the sofa to see what on earth this marvellous crank would get up to. He immediately forgot that I was there, sat down astride a chair with his head leaning forward against the back, and began to declaim in a strong singing tone which was half mournful and half mocking, ‘Poor lieutenant, poor lieutenant! Poor lieutenant, poor lieutenant!’ This lament concerned a Prussian lieutenant whom he ‘corrupted’ by teaching him the Hegelian philosophy …>After he had lamented the lieutenant for a while, he started up and suddenly discovered that I was in the room. He came over to me, gave me to understand that he had me in his power, and, with a malice that recalled an imp rather than the intended devil, he began to attack me with threats and cuffs. I begged him to spare me that sort of thing, because it went against the grain to pay him back in the same coin. When he did not stop I gave him a serious warning that I would deal with him in a way which he would certainly feel and when that too did no good I saw myself compelled to dispatch him into the corner of the room. When he got up I said that I found his personality boring and asked him to open the front door. Now it was his turn to be triumphant. ‘Go home then, strong man,’ he mocked, and added a most comical smirk. It was as though he was chanting the words from Faust, ‘There is one imprisoned inside …’ At least, the sentiment was similar, although his unsuccessful imitation of Mephistopheles made the situation comic in the extreme. In the end I warned him that if he would not open the door for me, then I would get it open myself and he would have to pay for the damage. Since he only answered with mocking sneers, I went down, tore the front door off its lock and called out to him from the street that he should shut the house up to prevent the entry of thieves. Dumb with amazement that I had escaped from his spell, he leaned out of the window and goggled at me with his small eyes like a wet goblin.
>>23608811>Refuses to work so his children live in poverty and starve to death>His Ideas causes Jonestown and the HolodomorYeah, he certainly was the best at killing people.
>>23608930judge a man by his words, not his actions
>>23608811Admit it you will never be a real woman.>>uncovers the secrets of capitalismPeople like hecking money, wow what a fucking secret.>>never debunkedDebuked plenty of times you just refuse to open your eyes and see. Pic related is proof enough of that.Dilate and then neckurself subhuman.
>>23608937I do both.Marx was a bum who's ideas killed people while his actions killed his parents.That's why Marxists are people should execute - they're evil people who deserve the death penalty.
>>23608944twas a jest. i was agreeing with you. talk is cheap, it is easy to say something and harder to do it, being virtuous is far more difficult than merely simulating virtue with your words, etc.
>>23608835cope
>>23608821>value = pricewow great deboonking >>23608964couldnt even get the basics right. full retard
>>23608811>makes Hegelianism materialisticIs this a good thing?
>>23608930You should stop getting your ''facts'' from whatever retarded rightoid talking heads you follow on Youtube, no son of Marx ever starved to death. As for being poor, he wasn't poor either, he had money problems because he lived above his means
Can some one explain to me how the various forms of value aren't just slippery, floating concepts that can just suit whatever argument you wish to make?Who defines what is 'socially necessary'?Serious question.
>>23608930>jonestownhuh? He was fond of Hitler
He’s made billions seethe. Great man
>>23609014never
>>23608811It's interesting how marxtards have become religitards with respect to this out-of-date Jewish hack. They won't question his failed ideology (ackshually marxism isn't an ideology, right fellow retards?) or engage with modern theories that refute his badly dated theories. Then there's the fact that it's obviously promoted by the elites through universities and other institutions.
>>23609142I like the letter written to him by a Rabbi thanking him for fooling the goyim into giving up their property rights. So fucking based.
>>23609043average commodity
>>23609718>modern theories that refute his badly dated theoriessuch as?
>>23608928Wtf is this?
>>23609805its from a book written by a schizo american catholic trying to prove that marx was a satanist. forgot its name
>>23609043>Who defines what is 'socially necessary'?The market. If the commodity finds a buyer then the work embedded in it was social necessary. Work that was spent producing goods that doesnt find a buyer is proven useless.
>>23609829So what you're saying is that Marxism is actually a marginalist price account of iterated cycles of speculative production? That Price is transformed into Value in History by Capitalists?
>>23609874>marginalistonly if all marginalists are marxists
>>23609816>>23609805No, it's an anecdote recounted by Karl Heinzen from a biography of Marx by Francis Wheen (I don't know the author's politics but the biography seemed fair to me, even sympathetic if anything, from a quick googling seems to be some kind of yucky Blairite though, like he basically seems to have late Christopher Hitchen's politics, and he was friend of the guy too), I was kidding with the ''gulag remark'', I didn't think I needed to explain it
Walter Benjamin eviscerated Historical Materialism which was the only relevant and important part of Marxism. Only washed up academics still adhere to it.
>>23609792I think Marxist economics isn't take seriously, and even some Marxist economist has proved that profit doesn't actually fall as Marx predicted.
>>23608811Bakunin was right. Marx was a cuck and a Jew and a brainlet loser. Never accomplished anything.
>>23610067Where?
>>23608811He was just another false prophet.
>>23608854Christians, jews, muslims, vegans, carnivores, fanclubs, hysterics etc. all have made this claim. It seems like a species-wide character flaw, indicating the level of maturity.
>>23610098Infinite profits are caused by infinite loans and bs sleight of hand made in political theatres known as democracies. It's not sustainable, and it accuses the weather to be its scapegoat. Taxpayer's tab, of course.
>>23611742Nowhere, Benjamin just copped a lot of late Nietzsche, mixed in some theological feels good man, and agreed with Marx on a number of topics. Even included a nice chess analogy where you play against the Hunchback of Notre Dame.
>>23608811>>never debunkedIs there a single prediction by Marx which actually came true?
>>23611951Which country do you live in?
>>23611977I'm a princess from a small undisclosed Mediterranean country.
>>23611980Then go read Marx your royal twatness.
>>236088114/10 bait
>>23609032>he had money problems because he lived above his meanslmao come on. He had "money problems" because he never worked a day in his life, drank all the time, and begged his parents and friends for money. He's the ideal model for the work-shy. A loser that appeals to other losers.
>>23611742Theses on the Philosophy of History
>>23612092>work-shy
>>23608811>makes Hegelianism materialisticThat's regressive
>>23612694Writing is not work. I write all day on 4chan and it takes no energy to do so.
>>23608811No, not at all
Marx wasn't refuted but Lenin absolutely was, poor countries turning communist failed, vanguard party failed, planned economy failed, indocrination failed, censorship failed, he was wrong on absolutely everything, every country that copied his model colapsed or abandoned 99% of it. Unfortunately most marxists nowadays are actually Lenin followers.
>>23612004I don't have time to waste, give me the tl;dr of his best predictions.
>>236128994chan is a bunch of one-off jokes and sometimes a tl;dr blockwriting poetry might be easy but if you're writing a book it's totally differentwith posts you just play off of each other, the context and dynamic is already established.Go on /trash and fill up a 200 post thread with your own rambles, that's what a first draft feels like. To be good it has to flow together logically and naturally too, that takes skill and refinement
>>23611951He predicted that the socialist revolution in Russia would fail hard.
>>23613119I don't have time to waste either you retard. Go read Marx and find out, but it sounds like you already know some of these answers, which means you seemingly cannot accurately describe your present time situation either.
>>23608811I’ve made up my mind to finally read Marx soon. I’m not sure where to start-Penguin Early Writings-Penguin New York Tribune Articles-Grundrisse-Hackett Selected Writings -The Portable Karl Marx-The Marx-Engels ReaderI’m leaning towards one of the last two
>>23613193Study economics first THEN study Marx, Marx is criticism of capitalism and his works rely on you already knowing all about how it works.
>>23613226I’m not interested in economics, just Karl Marx himself and his influence. Lol at these prerequisite type posts. I’ll never spend months preparing for a single book I’m mildly curious about
>>23608811Are you looking forward to 9th grade?
>Bitcoin: exists>Pseuds: still studying the Jew marxHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>>23613264fair enough, it will be like reading a movie review without watching the movie though
>>23613193read a secondary like Michael Heinrich's introduction into the three chapters of Capital. Then decide if you're interested enough, don't waste time
>>23613193>PenguinJust give up
>>23613193Marx intended for all his works - especially Capital - to be accesible to workers, there really is no need for introductions. Pick whatever seems most interesting to you and go from there as you will retain most this way.
>>23613297marx got rich from speculating on fictitious capital
>>23608811>Start reading Hegel's Philosophy of Right>He immediately starts by discussing how morality starts with the notion of Property>After that comes Contracts, and only after those comes MoralityNever had I thought one philosopher could so utterly BTFO Marxism in so few pages, all while being treated as its philosophical basis.
>>23613304If he interests me enough I can always reread and put in work with influences and economics
>>23613353>BTC>Fictitious capitalBrutally filtered like the stupid pseud that you are. Marxists don't understand anything. No wonder the only places marxtards and commiecucks can point to for their dumbshit theories actually "working" for once are primitive ooga booga tribes.
>>23613425I agree. All they do is recontextualize everything through dialectical materialism/class conflict, like religitard zealots, thinking they're privy to some special knowledge that the rest of humanity (to them, like plebs, ironically) haven't discovered yet.No, most people, especially in the West, just aren't interested in these badly dated Jew theory for slaves that were only ever moderately accurate within a very limited period in history.Even from a purely intellectual standpoint, Marx leaves a lot to be desired. It seems like most of his adherents are children or very young.
>>23613353Of course, he was a Jewish scam artist and fraud.
>>23608811Holy shit has the quality of this board dropped. Looking at these replies, this feels even worse than the usual /pol/tards. I'm no Marxist but you can't seriously engage with a huge portion of literature without an understanding of Marx.
>>23613483Are you all just cuckservative teenagers who have come here after the Trump shooting or has this been going on for longer? I haven't been on /lit/ for some time now
>>23613472lmao cry harder bitch
>>23613483>>23613492The decline of 4chan is not just incidentally coeval with the increasing portion of retarded children, normies, and turdies gaining access to the internet
>>23613483The problem with Marx threads is that Marxists don't understand him, either. Just watch what happens when the anti-Marxists get thrown into Randian containment threads. You'll have people defending the Labor Theory of Value.>>23613492The decline of 4chan has been going on since 2016. Each American election makes the site worse.
>>23613164So 0, got it.
>>23613505Always glad to hear you are still a bitch.
>>23613497mainstream political discourse is mind-numbingly infantile, that's the reason why. you don't seriously engage with the other side nor do you even engage with your own side anymore. so when these people come in that are used to that level of discussion (even if they may be intelligent) the quality inevitably drops.
>>23613340Yeah I figure I’m going to get a selected writings book and if I do desire I can go from there. Marx has been both demonized and lionized and I want to go into him with a blank slate. I’m reading a book that features him quite a bit and the author makes him seem like an unlikeable autist but a genius. Engels seems like a nice guy on the other hand, so I’m leaning towards the Marx-Engels Reader. I’m going to try to read them with no preconceived notions
>>23613492The board bottomed out completely around the time Russia invaded Ukraine, whatever that year was. It was going down hill before then but the last few years it’s been more or less unusable whereas in the past there were always good pockets
>>23613531>you don't seriously engage with the other side nor do you even engage with your own side anymore. so when these people come in that are used to that level of discussionDefinitely true of online political discourse. /pol/ is just as bad, if not worse, than Twitter or Reddit now. /lit/ is okay if only because fictional literature and Kantian autism tend to filter /pol/fags (who concentrate in these kinds of threads instead).I've found things a bit better in person, so long as you avoid the undergraduate activist and debate club types.
>>23613483>you can't seriously engage with a huge portion of literature without an understanding of Marx.HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA >>23613493Good argument.>>23613531Marxists these days are all trooning out and gooning all day, they don't even have the mental capacity or requisite ability to concentrate to read or to think. Not to mention that the majority of them are brown 3rd world donkeys LMAO
>>23613563The only serious discourse comes from the hard right these days. Leftists are just cucked beyond belief and are mentally devolving at an appalling rate. It's why you see former leftists going chud mode.
>>23613570This unfortunately. Not that the likes of BAP or any generic popular twitter celeb constitutes serious discourse, they aren't far right.Also people intelligent enough to have these discussions really aren't interested in marxism apart from an intellectual inquiry. Marxist historiography and and his economic theories are stupid and out-of-touch for the most part.
>>23609722That does sound based I wish it really existed
Does the right even have a game plan? The far right certainly doesn’t. The whole get rid of democracy thing is simply a nonstarter as it is unrealistic and a type of revenge fantasy. Things can be definitely be improved but those yearning for an authoritarian regime and a return to monke should be careful what they wish for
>>23613596yes, it's called "get rid of leftists so we can have nice things"
>>23613566Exhibit A>>23613570I agree but it depends on the country, here in Europe actual leftists are still largely more interesting to engage with than the hard right (who was mostly just white trash beforehand but with the immigration crisis things are changing) though there has been a serious downgrade with all the American ideology flowing in and liberalism taking subconscious hold among leftists.
>>23613602I mean beyond empty platitudes. I mean some feasible plan that can be outlined and put into action.
>>23613606>though there has been a serious downgrade with all the American ideology flowing in and liberalism taking subconscious hold among leftistsGood, Marx claimed that a liberal market economy was necessary as long as there wans't the technology to make it oudated. Until we have Artificial General Intelligence capitalism is the only option
>>23613612yes, it's called "get rid of leftists so we can have nice things"it really is that easy, just look at El Salvador
>>23613596It's mostly about aesthetics for the far-right. They really like aesthetics. I don't think there is a coherent game plan. I guess mass deportation and some sort of ethnic collectivism and a NEP style mixed economy would be the mean among the far-right. And for the regular right, they still seem to have a strong libertarian influence, so smaller state less regulations more capitalism lower taxes and all that, maybe some deportations but only for illegal immigrants and culturally the whole colorblind ''classical liberal'' shtick.
>>23613595It does, it was published in a literary review journal along with other letters of his after he died.
>>23613409Marx has an unfinished text about Hegel's philosophy of right which you could check out
>>23613606So the actual people on the ground who are affected by government policies (the "workers") are far right? Ya, that's pretty standard, leftism only exists as a fashion statement for petulant children of the petty bourgeois. Actual people who have to live under it and don't just use it to give meaning to their pointless, mediocre lives always end up despising it.
>>23613636you're seriously pathetic
>>23613612How is removing posturing, parasitic leftard buffoons just a platitude? That would work wonders for humanity. Leftists are a literal scourge of resentful subhumans.
>>23613624And pray tell how will you do that? If you don’t see the geographical, historical, economical, and political differences between El Salvador then you’re hopeless >>23613627I’m guessing a lot of the far right anons are from the USA which is laughable given the demographics and the constitution. It’s annoying how the culture war has made being racist and all a political movement, like their country is a melting pot and founded on democracy and equal rights. If they don’t like it they should move. There are major issues in the USA like the housing market in a lot of areas and the shrinking of the middle class. Those are actually tangible issues that can have a massive impact on someone’s life. The left probably has more possible solutions for that than the far right who mostly seem concerned about online fixtures like the tranny which is rarely encountered in day to day life
>>23613644How? You're the one crying over a letter existing. You're projecting, puerile leftist dilettante that you are.
>>23613647Our country was founded by slave owning, radical right wing extremist white men with guns.All of that gay civil rights shit is when the country started declining.
>>23613642That's not very accurate and is a cliche that doesn't work all that well in Europe. A big portion of leftists here come from ex-soviet countries and are generally not all that wealthy. I know the stereotype of the leftist who hates actual workers and such people definitely do exist but they're generally liberals, and they're a lot more common in America rather than here.
>>23613647The far right is growing in Europe faster than it is in the US. The US "far right" is mostly civic nationalism and anti-zionism from mongrels. >>23613648Once you realize that leftists are just unserious, spiteful little freaks, it makes more sense. They aren't real, they are just fake pussies who want power since they are so impotent.
This thread just went to shit
>>23613648>mainstream political discourse is mind-numbingly infantile, that's the reason why. you don't seriously engage with the other side nor do you even engage with your own side anymore. so when these people come in that are used to that level of discussion (even if they may be intelligent) the quality inevitably drops.You're the exact representation of what the other anon said. I don't think you're stupid but all of your discourse comes from a very limited bubble, and all of your assumptions about me stem from said bubble and said limited discourse.
>>23613654You're sounding pretty mad with that passive-aggressiveness. What's got you upset, bud? Parents ignoring you?
>>23613655Leftists don't openly or consciously hate workers, it's more subconscious. They think they're above the working class subconsciously while "caring" for them like a mother, thinking they can dictate their lives. Really the working class are better people and more competent. Leftists are stupid children in university who are weak inherently. The working class and aristocrats unite to purge the petty bourgeois subhumans.
>>23613654Based>>23613663Do you have a mental disability? You're far more passive-aggressive than he is. You sound like an antifa tranny who goes and gets beaten by fat boomers at a bible parade.
>>23613663NTA but why do all of your posts make you sound like you're about 14
>>23613665Sounds like you're describing the quintessential Liberal. This is all super American as well, and not all that accurate everywhere else. I'm telling you that a big portion of communists in my country are from ex-soviet countries and are very far removed from what you're imagining a leftist to be.
can we focus on economy rather that all this racist spam and talking about culture war
>>23613660Are you surprised? Just like Nietzsche, Marx is impossible to discuss in an adult like way hereAnd what’s the deal with making the left and the right two monoliths? There are shades and different people put emphasis on different issues. Strawmanning sides is just disingenuous
>>23613681This
>>23608944Hey retard learn how to fucking spell before trying to make a point on this website
>>23613681I think Listian economics is enough for humanity. Everything should be simple.
>>23613690+We should decentralize, split up every big country. Simplify every part of existence.
>>23608811What would Marx say about the middle class NEET who is alienated? They are almost becoming a new social class.
>>23613297Proof of Work confirms the labor theory of value.
>>23613662No, they're all observations of leftists doing leftist things, all of which are indefensibly evil, which is why the leftist position on everything is "that isn't happening but also it's always been like that and why do you even care".
>>23613663I'm not passive aggressive, I'm just normal aggressive, I'm going to cave your leftytroon skull in with a rock.
>>23613648All the problems you describe stem from Capitalism. Rightoids are incapable of understanding the difference between cause and effect. Which is why they think getting rid of abortion rights will solve the low birth rate, but oppose things like paid maternity leave.
>>23613696Marx was a NEET basically. I guess he'd call us lumpenproletariat or at least we're the excessive flab of the reserve army of labor, the mass of employed bums competing for a small number of jobs that can be used to depress overall wages while making the average worker disposable. He can always be fired if he gets to demanding as there's no shortage of us waiting to take his place. This creates cutthroat competition between lumpen and unemployed bums. Instead of recognizing our situtation, we are to fixated on our own individual self interest and fighting against each other from crumbs from the table. We're racists, misogynists, fight over pointless tribal differences because we actually hate each other. We see each other as competition in a dog eat dog world. We rationalize this hatred by appeals to racism, fascism, schizo liberalism, conspiracy theories and by consuming bucket loads of porn, drugs, coffee, and junk food to medicate the mental illnesses brought on by unreasonable expectations and excessive social pressures to conform and be a wagie.
>>23613767Again you're repeating American points. Ignoring what doesn't fit your lense. Things are very different in my country, or they were 5-10 years ago before we imported Americanism lol.
>>23608811Marx really getting anons’ panties in a bunch. Given that the average anon is a retard and can’t help sperging out then maybe Marx is onto something. I’ll get around to him eventually
>>23613790The average Stalinist is a far cry from what you're talking about.
Lots of buzzwords and online terminology being thrown around itt. /lit/ is a deeply unserious board lol
>>23613796>unironic commie spam everywhereyeah no shit retard
>>23613804Lots from /pol/posters as well
>>23613788>Marx was a NEET basicallyI don't get why people call him a neet, he was a teacher, journalist and published books. The guy basically had 3 jobs
>>23613650we both know this letter doesnt exist and you trying to convince mentally ill people otherwise is just extremely pathetic.
>>23613811The guy was freeloading of Engels, barely made money from his articles which he stopped publishing, and was barred from teaching because of his politics. He spent most of his years either underground or just hanging around in the library during the day and getting drunk at night, trying to scrape together some cash to keep his family alive, usually donations from friends. He was a NEET. He was THE NEET. Resentful towards society, mad at the system, and an outsider to academic economics and philosophy at the time, saying edgy shit all the time, posting tabloid tier stuff in the papers etc. The guy was an outcast loved only by his friends, workers, and socialists, and even many of them hated him. Running an underground revolutionary association doesn't count as a job.
>>23613783No, all of those problems stem from leftists.
>>23613790>Things are very different in my country1. They aren't.2. Leftist is a biological phenomena, not a legitimate political philosophy.3. You look like this.4. You all look like this in every country.
Let us take a moment to remember the cowardly Nazis getting btfo by the based communist. The latter was right there in Berlin raping and ravaging. The Nazis were afraid to surrender to the communists so they either killed themselves or looked for western forces to surrender to. In the ideological battle between Nazism and communism it’s clear who won.
>>23613819>outsider to academic economics and philosophybased?
>>23613831>the only two things communists are known for are acting subhuman and getting mass executed by other communistslol?
>>23613822>t. looks like this
>>23613841I'm not a leftist, so no.
>>23613860you're mentally ill too, though.
>>23613865I'm not a leftist, so no.
>>23613088>Unfortunately most marxists nowadays are actually Lenin followers.So what you're saying is that real communism has never been tried?
>>23613869I'll be the judge of that.
>>23613627>They really like aestheticsindeed, like the aesthetics of a safe, clean, homogeneous, high social capital society without browns and commies ruining everything.
>>23613892utopian drivel
>>23613886NTA but communism has always been plagued by a totalitarian figure. Maybe that is always the end result as lust for power will always be there and communism is easily exploited. I think it was Bakunin who said something about the end result of communism being totalitarianism. Someone like Robert Owen was able to be pretty successful for a time on a smaller scale. I think with the right leader and regime it can possibly work, or at least a soft kind of communism.
>>23613901You wouldn’t want a president to run on the platform of love and peace for all? Lol. For real though, society is extremely complex and there will always be riff raff and crime. If that anon is living in an unsafe “low trust” environment he needs to work on moving. That’s his own damn fault. If he is economically stifled he unfairly then maybe Marx could be of use…
>>23613887No, you won't.
>>23613892>like the aesthetics of a safe, clean, homogeneous, high social capital society without browns and commies ruining everything.This.Also, a fundamental aspect of communist praxis is making everything ugly as shit, because people naturally desire to preserve beautiful things, which is anti-revolutionary.So both leftytroons and normal people are concerned with aesthetics, the main difference being that leftytroons are evil and hate beauty.
>>23613947which book by marx have you read, chuddie?
>>23613950
You will never be a real woman. You have no womb, you have no ovaries, you have no eggs. You are a homosexual man twisted by drugs and surgery into a crude mockery of nature’s perfection.All the “validation” you get is two-faced and half-hearted. Behind your back people mock you. Your parents are disgusted and ashamed of you, your “friends” laugh at your ghoulish appearance behind closed doors.Men are utterly repulsed by you. Thousands of years of evolution have allowed men to sniff out frauds with incredible efficiency. Even trannies who “pass” look uncanny and unnatural to a man. Your bone structure is a dead giveaway. And even if you manage to get a drunk guy home with you, he’ll turn tail and bolt the second he gets a whiff of your diseased, infected axe wound.You will never be happy. You wrench out a fake smile every single morning and tell yourself it’s going to be ok, but deep inside you feel the depression creeping up like a weed, ready to crush you under the unbearable weight.Eventually it’ll be too much to bear - you’ll buy a rope, tie a noose, put it around your neck, and plunge into the cold abyss. Your parents will find you, heartbroken but relieved that they no longer have to live with the unbearable shame and disappointment. They’ll bury you with a headstone marked with your birth name, and every passerby for the rest of eternity will know a man is buried there. Your body will decay and go back to the dust, and all that will remain of your legacy is a skeleton that is unmistakably male.This is your fate. This is what you chose. There is no turning back.
>>23613961>>23613964What have these to do with Karl Marx?
>>23608811Karl Marx is the only reason Max Stirner's stupidity survived to be spouted by retards on the internet.For that alone, I despise his existence.
>>23613966Marxists are all trannies.If trannyism has been invented when Karl was alive, he would have trooned out.
>>23613976So your beef is with the Frankfurt School, supposedly, and identity politics (of which you yourself are taking part). Karl Marx wrote about economics and history for the most part. It’s a pretty funny irony that some of Marx’s writing would actually strike a chord with the /pol/ crowd if they actually read him
>>23613998It wouldn't, because /pol/ is always right, and Karl the Cuck was wrong about everything.
>>23614012this is you btw
>>23614037I'm a normal looking guy with a beard?
>>23614042>this is normal among /pol/yp subhumanslmao knew it
>>23608811>>makes Hegelianism materialisticWhy is that good?>>uncovers the secrets of capitalismWhat secrets? How did he do so? >>never debunkedDebunked how? What does that even mean?>>half the people identifying as "Marxists" or critics of Marx don't even understand himMost of the supposed Marxists of Marx's own time didn't understand him
>>23614061What San Fransisco bath house are you posting out of where being a fat, dysgenic, transgendered abomination is "normal" but "being white and having a beard" is not?
Just found this 3 volume set from half price books. They got that old used book smell. What am I in for lads? I got about halfway through capital.
>>23614095the Russian version of those 2012 mayan apocalypse prediction books
>>23608811Princeton hardcover of part 1 coming out in September, boys. I assume they will release the other two eventually. It will be beautiful to have a nice 3 volume hardcover set
>>23614087being a dyel manlet shut in loser isnt normal where i live no
>being a dyel manlet shut in loser isnt normal where i live no
>>23614136sorry you live in a shithole, maybe if the inhabitants werent such genetic waste like yourself it would be better :)
>>23614174leftists look like you everywhere, because leftism is a biological phenomena
>>23613531>>23613606Its pretty clear you just want people to agree with you and give you fellatio
>>23614186I think I would have considerably less success on Tinder if this were the case.
>>23614243You might lie You may have low standards You may use black magic You may have fallen for social engineering - prole prole lama sabactani!Ugly deformations can have tinder success.
>be Karl Marx>criticize capitalism in the 19th century>say workers are exploited because they create more value than they’re paid>this means rich people get richer while workers get poorer>workers are alienated from their work, not happy with their jobs>this idea still applies today, with wage gaps and job dissatisfaction>predict that capitalism leads to economic crises, like recessions>boom and bust cycles are still a thing, just look at the financial crises>global capitalism and multinational corporations exploiting resources?>Marx saw this coming with his ideas on imperialism and global expansion>automation and tech advances? Marx warned they’d lead to worker displacement>capitalism driving environmental destruction? >Marx didn't know that >but his critique of capitalism’s resource exploitation holds true>ideology as a tool for the ruling class to keep control?>media bias and propaganda show Marx wasn’t off-base>Marx also said that capitalism depends on unpaid domestic work to support the workforce>undervalued caregiving and domestic labor>Marx was on point>economic conditions shaping politics and culture? >Still a thing>capitalism’s failings and the need for alternatives are still hot topics>Marx’s ideas are still relevant and often spot on, even if some people don’t get it
>>23614273whatever helps you cope my man
>>23613660Eveytime someone complains about "muh decline of 4chan", the thread becomes unreadable. I'm convinced it's done on purpose.
>>23613901It's reactionary actually. Don't pretend like it never happened, dyke.
>>23614306It never happened and never will. It is an idealist pipedream.
>>23614292If you really think wage labor and corporations are evil, you should become a gnome and live in the woods.You're just proving Marxism is luddite non-sense for Woodstock hippies that smoker too much weed.
>>23614392Marxism does not consider corporations to be 'evil' and is openly hostile to luddism.
>>23614464Marxism wants to abolish private property, wants to abolish the state, get rid of money, is against the existence of commodities, and is against development because of "muh environment"Its absolutely luddite non-sense. Nobody is buying your bullshit.
>>23614464Nigga, you were the people who inspired Pol Pot, Shining Path and Jonestown.You REALLY think people are fooled about you not being luddites and fucking psychos?You really stop doing drugs.
>>23614392Anon, Marxism critiques exploitation and inequality in capitalism, not progress itselfbelieving in fair wages and worker rights doesn’t mean living in the woodsstop alienating yourself and buying into self-created delusions
>>23614472>>23614483Marxist are against luddism because it is an ineffectual tactic for workers to employ against the capitalist, arguing that they need to attack capital in a more direct manner.
>>23614510>>23614524>Anon, just ignore the history of communism, and just believe what my infallible cult leader saysGet off the drugs dude
>>23614510>believing in fair wages and worker rights doesn’t mean living in the woodsFair wages and workers rights? Marxists countries banned unions and shot striking workers.Strikes aren't even allowed in Cuba or China today. You are seriously retarded if you think that.
>>23614534>Marxists countriesno such thing
>>23614543>It wasn't real communism!You are in a cult and you are mentally ill.
>>23614528I certainly ignore whatever retards think is the 'history of communism'
>>23614547the labour movement is communism and strictly that
>>23614548>>23614552Communism was always cringe and the intellectual domain of over-educated cafe-dwelling middle class failsons with soft, unworked hands.Nobody gives a fuck what you think. Get a job and stop posting here.
>>23614555kek that projection
>>23614528Marx wasn’t around to see the regimes that misused his theories. His work critiqued capitalism, not the creation of dictatorships/mass graves. Blaming him for the atrocities committed under regimes that distorted his ideas is as misplaced as blaming a book for its readers' actions. It’s about power and greed.
>>23608811
>>23608811>half the people identifying as "Marxists" or critics of Marx don't even understand himWhat's the use if an idea no one can put into practice? He just becomes a Cassandra like figure.
>>23613155But it didn't and was incredibly successful, resulting in a world super power arising from a bunch of peasant slavs.
>>23613147And is that the case for his books? From what I read people don't understand him, so he must not have been such a good writer. I can at least understand 4chin posts
>>23615880>in a world super powerCool can't wait to visit it.
>>23608811So, is Capital actually worth reading? Haven't read any of his other stuff but I have a mediocre understanding of economics
>>23616393yes it's interesting and a fun read
>>23614292The labour theory of value is also NECESSARILY true, capitalists need to sell their products above their cost of production to make a profit. While modern economists deny that self - evident truth
>>23616488The labor theory of value is retarded, nobody cares how much time and effort you put into making useless crap.
>>23616500so true
>>23616500That's not the LTV moron, the LTV applies to generalized commodity production, not to some retard making useless crap. It's also NECESSARILY true because capitalists need to sell their commodities above their costs of production to make a profit
>>23608811Sounds more like a Hegel problemNot a *my* problem
>>23614292>>say workers are exploited because they create more value than they’re paidThis is really the crux of all of marxist griping. The marxian end state is the end of histpry precisely because then prople stop producing more for less. Stop any sacrificing. It's the end of history because it's the end of human life.
>>23614292>>say workers are exploited because they create more value than they’re paidWhat about the value of some highly skilled manager or inventor developing the production and tech to increase the production of said workers a dozen times, are you going to give a guy who invented a machine that produced billions of dollars and saved millions of lives the same ammount a random person did?
>>23608811>>uncovers the secrets of capitalismGod is a capitalist. Private property is a very important issue in the Bible as well as inheritances. You just hate God.>>never debunkedWhy would someone do that, just go on the internet and tell lies.
>>23616610the amount products sell for and the amount it costs to produce them has nothing to do with labor, and everything to do with supply and demand, therefore you are still predictably a fucking retard.
>>23616488labour theory of value is to economists what creationism is to biologists
>>23616763>>23616769Because modern economists are apologist for the status quo so they invented the fantasy that price is magically determined by supply and demand forgetting the inescapable truth that capitalists need to sell their commodities above their costs of production to make a profit or they go bankrupt, price is not the voluntaristic fantasy economists concocted, and it's plainly evident
>>23616488>>23616500>>23616769I don't get why Marxism must be stuck with LTV, everybody at Marx time believed in this shit, Marx only believed in it because Adam Smith believed in it and in several ways considered himself a follower of Adam SmithWhy cant we adapt Marx theories to modern economics just like how we did to Adam Smith
>>23616793>that capitalists need to sell their commodities above their costs of productionHow are you going to pay for technology research and management development otherwiseThat only will make sense when we reach the absolute peak of knowledge on engineering and sociology
>>23616793Not only is LTV self evidently not true, but the exact fucking opposite is true.The less labor required to make a product, the greater profit it can be sold for.Your gay commie theory would state that a fully automated factory is incapable of producing anything of value, because no labor is required.
>>23614392wtf i love massive multi national corporations that want nothing more than me to be a consumerist slave nowbtw i would love to be a gnome in the woods in a cabin. kys urbanite
>>23616610>the LTV applies to generalized commodity productionCoal>takes a certain amount of labour to extract one ton of coal>the commodity would be valuable to a country running a coal-based energy grid >the commodity would be worthless to a country running a gas/nuclear/wind-based energy grid
>>23616820wow a magical factory that runs on hopes and dreams. marxoids btfo>>23618297corporations/people have different needs owing to all sorts of reasons
>>23608811I like Marx a lot, and can't wait to finish Vol 1 of Capital when im finally finished with my exams. I think Marx is best read as an antihumanist, I much prefer Althusser's analysis on Marx's supposed epistemic break and ergo being a scientific socialist. Marx is at his best when hes read as taking more from Spinoza than Hegel.
>>23618591>corporations/people have different needs owing to all sorts of reasonsAlmost like value depends on needs and not on effort.
>>23618297Does not contradict the LTV. >>23618610Need detrermines what labor is socially necessary.
>>23618621>Does not contradict the LTV.But the value of the same ton of coal is different.
>>23618622Yes, and?
>>23618632How does it not contradict the LTV if the same amount of labour gives two different values depending on the buyer?
>>23618641Only socially-necessary labor produces value. Someone digging useless ditches in a middle of nowhere (or extracting an unusable fossil fuel) does not produce any value. Labor determines the value of a necessary product that has a demand. You niggers never read Marx and keep fighting a caricature. >depending on the buyer?A gay-ass abstraction. Implying that if we find a schizo buyer who's willing to pay for coal, then the same coal is suddenly valuable, even if it can never be actually used for anything by anyone.
>>23618646>Only socially-necessary labor produces value.Mining coal is socially-necessary, the coal would be used to produce electricity. >A gay-ass abstraction.How is it an abstraction? It's a very realistic example.
>>23618651>Mining coal is socially-necessary, the coal would be used to produce electricity.So the coal is actually valuable, even in the country that does not have a coal-based energy grid, as it can be then resold to a country that has one. It's less profitable though, since more labor has to be expended on logistics for the same use-value.What a great example, man.
>>23618663So it just depends on demand lol. "Social-necessity" is just an inferior version of demand that breaks when applied to non-socially relevant goods and services.
>>never debunkedread The Main Currents of Marxism
>>23618664>So it just depends on demand lolSo hydrogen vehicles are the future, I guess. I mean, the demand is massive. >"Social-necessity" is just an inferior version of demand that breaks when applied to non-socially relevant goods and services.That says more about thos goods and services than it does about the theory.
>>23618670>I mean, the demand is massive? The demand is low because they are very expensive compared to the alternatives and almost nobody drives a hydrogen-powered vehicle. The demand for cheap plentiful hydrogen is theoretically high but there is no supply for that due to technological limitations, logistics etc. >That says more about thos goods and services than it does about the theory.Ok, but people still want non-socially relevant goods and services and are willing to pay for them. Their value is subjective, for some people it may be very high.
>>23608811nah, he was cool, altough a bit of an ass. Liquidating the ruling class? I'm very much for that. From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs.
>>23618675>The demand>they are very expensiveBruh. >The demand for CHEAPMuh inferior version, muh breaks down, bruh.>Ok, but people still want non-socially relevant goods and services and are willing to pay for them. Their value is subjective, for some people it may be very high.It's time for you to just admit that you want to talk specifically about an economy built wholly and entirely on scamming idiots into paying as much as possible for useless shit.
>>23618695>Muh inferior version, muh breaks down, bruh.The demand is there for cheap, practical, clean, etc. vehicles. Hydrogen vehicles are not really cheap (and hydrogen itself remains expensive), not particularly practical (no infrastructure, which is harder to build compared to the infrastructure for electric cars) and not particularly clean (most hydrogen nowadays is created with fossil fuels and you lose a bunch of energy in the conversion process).Now hydrogen has two main advantages: it's fairly energy-dense and it allows for rapid refueling. That's why it's more interesting for ships and planes and grid solutions than it is for automotive applications. >want to talk specifically about an economy built wholly and entirely on scamming idiotsWhich economy still exists and which collapsed because people wanted "socially non-necessary" goods and services like blue jeans and rock concerts? Lol.
>>23618722>The demand is there for cheapAnon I wonder when are you going to notice that you folded supply into demand. >Which economy still existsThe one where you don't own any real estate.
>>23616800I'm starting to think it was internal sabotage to fuck up Marxism, if you don't stick with this outdated economic theory you are not a real comrade while capitalists are now associated with all the most modern and proved economic models even though when Marxism started they had more doubts on theory of labour than capitalists themselves.Nevermind how Marx focus was sociology not economy.
>>23618743>Anon I wonder when are you going to notice that you folded supply into demand.What? Demand very normally increases as price decreases. The problem here is that there is not a lot of demand because the product is not particularly good compared to the alternatives and remains expensive. It's a technological problem, because companies can't supply a very good hydrogen vehicle due to technological constraints. >The one where you don't own any real estate.I own real estate in my home town and rent in my work town. Why should I spend hundreds of thousands of euros when I may not live here for long if I change jobs? Renting is more efficient. It's funny btw because real estate markets respond immediately to demand and supply.
>>23618779>What?You literally make supply an element of demand. This makes the whole model circular. > the product is not particularly good compared to the alternatives and remains expensiveIf only there was a way to express the elements of production in an economic theory instead of going >"eehh it's a technology thing nothing to do with economic processes">Why should I Don't. Remain a good goy.
>>23618795>You literally make supply an element of demand. This makes the whole model circular.What? It's a theoretical demand because even if companies wanted to they can't supply a vehicle with those characteristics. The "demand" for a phone with a battery that lasts forever but is just as light and powerful as a normal phone is incredibly high, but there is no supply because such phone does not exist. It's the same for hydrogen vehicles, there is little demand for them because they are just not very good right now, it could be higher if they were better. >>"eehh it's a technology thing nothing to do with economic processes"Yes, technology does influence supply lol. Was the demand for electric vehicles high when batteries didn't last, were very expensive to produce, the cars looked like shit, etc.? Now that companies improved their technology they can offer better products compared to the alternatives and the demand is growing; as demand grows it increases prices, which increases the incentive to provide more supply, and so on in a feedback loop which drives technological adoption. It's really the same for every technology. >Don't. Remain a good goy.Yeah I'll just invest in more liquid assets instead of a house I may have to wait years to sell at a good price if I need the money.
>>23618815>such phone does not exist>hydrogen cars exist>It's the sameIntense mental gymnastics my man. >Yes, technology does influence supply lol.Then why do you leave it outside the parenthesis?
>>23618824>Intense mental gymnastics my man.Hydrogen cars exist but they are not very good so they remain a niche product with little demand, I thought that was established. Mobile phones have existed for decades, was there a high demand when they looked like pic related?>Then why do you leave it outside the parenthesis?What do you mean, when I said practical, cheap, etc.? All those things are driven by technology. Say if we had more efficient electrolysers hydrogen supply would increase and hydrogen cars could become more attractive.
>>23618831>Hydrogen cars exist but they are not very good Define "not very good".>What do you meanThe part where you reduce techological element of production to expresion like "good" and "not good".
>>23618880>Define "not very good".See >>23618722Compared to ICE cars and electric cars they are not that great. Their infrastructure is infinitely worse, they are not particularly ecofriendly, etc.>The part where you reduce techological element of production to expresion like "good" and "not good".Well I don't want to repeat myself every time. I listed several reasons why are not that good compared to the alternatives.
>>23618886>Define "not very good">It means "not that great"Wild.>Well I don't want to repeat myself every time. I listed several reasons why are not that good compared to the alternatives.If only there was a way to express the cumulative costs in natural resources, processing, machining, logistics, distribution and maintenance. Alas, all those things have absolutely nothing in common, so we're limited to merely describing the resulting products as "very good" or "not very good".
>>23618901>Wild.I literally listed them, do you even read my comments?>if only there was a way to express the cumulative costs in natural resources, processing, machining, logistics, distribution and maintenance.Fixed costs? R&D costs? Variable and non-variable costs? Dunno, logistic costs? Personnel costs? Just take an accounting class or whatever.
>>23618935>LaborWild. Now If only there was somthing about materials and processing, too...
>>23618949They are literally in the picture. Wait, you think in a market economy companies do not take into account raw materials costs, personnel costs, etc.? Is this the power of marxist "economics"?
>>23618965>Wait, you think in a market economy companies do not take into accountI think you nigger can't take two breaths without ciming up with a caricature to nig at. >They are literally in the picture.Materials, logistics and equipment are themsaelves just diffrent forms of applied labor. Hydrogen cars suck ass because their manufacture and maintenance requires more labor on multiple stages. Products with higher labor cost than their use value are worthless. Simple as.
>>23618984>Hydrogen cars suck ass because their manufacture and maintenance requires more labor on multiple stages.They also require more capital. Again, do you think they don't take into account labour costs?They have low demand, this is not only about price but also about convenience and comparison with their competitors. The point is that higher labour costs do not imply a higher price, which is merely a product of supply and demand. A live concert may take very little labour to produce but command very high prices because of high demand and low supply, assuming people find the experience valuable.
>>23618935The stuff in your pic is what determines price, not the stupid fantasy ''supply and demand'', there would be exceptional demand for a good laptop that only costs 100 bucks, it doesn't exist though, why? because producing it would cost more than what'd you sell it for, so yeah it's the cost of production of something (its labor) that mostly determines its price, then supply and demand can only influence it above that treshold
>>23619003>The stuff in your pic is what determines priceIt determines costs, which influence supply. But you could have very high costs (handmade pepe the frog figures made of solid platinum), and if you have no demand the price will be very low.>so yeah it's the cost of production of something (its labor) that mostly determines its price, then supply and demand can only influence it above that thresholdNot necessarily, you could sell a product at a loss and use it as a pull factor to get more clients and make money some other way. Also costs are not necessarily determined by labour, you have to include capital costs. In theory a fully automated factory would have 0 labour costs.
>>23608811Materialism makes no sense. It literally can’t be verified independent a conscious observer, which itself cannot be accounted for in a materialist paradigm. The real problem with Marx is that Marxists don’t read Capital and have little understanding of economics or basic logic. The book is literally filled with economic impossibilities as well as basic logical and mathematical errors.
>>23609032Mao starved many millions of people because he thought agricultural production could be organized along the lines of Marxist principles and it caused a famine.
>>23609043Value is a slippery concept but in most cases, value is used to refer to something more specific. In Marx, he’s referring to the thing that is not price which occurs between the transformation of raw materials via labor to a commodity which results in demand, price, and I guess sales. Consider a clock. Before a clock is a clock, it’s just a pile of raw materials. Laborers work to assemble these raw materials into a clock and suddenly the clock has increased demand and price relative to the pile of parts as a commodity. That difference Marx identifies as value and he believes it’s labor that gives it that value, which is false but it’s what he believed.
Reminder that the LTV is refuted by the mere existence of price locations due to supply and demand shocks. Either it is not, as Marx says, labor which gives the commodity its value and thus its price and not labor which lies behind the shocks themselves, or else Marx’s notion of value is ambiguous and non-specific and so meaningless.
>>23619111Marx is still right, imagine a society where all the labor is automated, you literally could not have a capitalist system anymore because nobody would have the money to pay for the commodities the fully automated factories are producing, so Marx was right that in a capitalist system what gives commodities their exchange value is the labor imprinted into them
>>23619294He’s by all definitions objectively wrong. His LTV doesn’t make logical sense and he uses literally false mathematical proofs to justify it. Literally no qualified economist accepts the LTV because it is just plainly false and there’s an endless parade of proofs to prove it. It cannot even account for how non-labor shocks influence demand and price. That shouldn’t be possible if the LTV was true. The only possible way you could spin that is professional sophistry because you would effectively answer the problem by rendering “value” meaningless. So Marx was just objectively and indisputably wrong and a materialist paradigm by nature cannot prove itself correct.
>>23608811>materialisticno one even knows what this means "materialism" is a literal memeno such thing exists
>>23619348Are you daft? What goes into the price of a commodity is variable capital (labor) AND constant capital (means of production, etc.), same for value. The difference is that surplus labor creates surplus value, which is then actualized in the market.
>>23608821>Marx failed to consider demand>>23608930hoholdomor was caused by kulaks and other reactionaries profiteering and burning crops in the middle of a famine>live in povertyhe work as a journalist and had a reliable paypig (Engels). the man was not lacking for money>>23609043socially necessary is just what capital deems necessary to reproduce itself. besides that, it's just the amount of labour necessary to make what is actually in demand. anything manufactured in excess of demand is not socially necessary and therefore does not create any value>>23612899>Writing is not workif it results in a sellable commodity that people actually buy then by definition it is productive labour>>23613726this
>>23618795>You literally make supply an element of demandPrice =/= supply. Demand relates the quantity of a product a person is willing to buy to the price of said product. This is econ 101.
>>23614136What about Middle Easterners who look white? After all, you worshiped a brown Jew for 1000+ years.
>>23620621Who?
>>23614136Anon you sound genuinely inept. Can you not hear yourself?
Leftists are human garbage.
>>23621173Here's a (You). Now scram.
>>23620545So what determines prices then if demand is dependent on prices?
>>23621539NTA but they're probably going to start spouting marginalist nonsenseneoclassical econ is really a big cope. it is at best a theory of prices, not value. it is a testament to how hard Marx buttblasted bourgeois political economy
>>23621690>be me, marginalist economist>spend entire career analyzing how one more unit of stuff makes people marginally happier>hours spent on complex equations to figure out the joy from an extra donut>completely ignore that the person’s already stuffed and definitely won’t eat more>literally puking >swear that this tiny slice of joy is the key to understanding all value>meanwhile, people are struggling to meet basic needs, and I’m obsessing over a 0.1% boost in happiness from overconsumption>argue with zeal that my theory explains everything>blindly overlook that it's fucking miniscule>get in heated debates with everyone who tries to talk about actual economic issuesmfw the real world doesn’t care about my donut calculus
>>23619002>"X">"So you actually ignore X, huh?"The absolute state. >A live concert Ah yes, the foundational principles of ebay economy. Will you ever come up with an analogy that does not obviously equate the central economic actors with PS5 scalpers? I mean, that was Marx's point and you're only supporting it.
>>23619072>But you could have very high costs (handmade pepe the frog figures made of solid platinum)EVERY SINGLE FUCKING TIME>- Labour determines the viability of economic actions >- Ah, but what about [blatant speculative grift]?Hurry up and bring up crypto and pyramid schemes as arguments.
>>23621811>Will you ever come up with an analogy that does not obviously equate the central economic actors with PS5 scalpers? I mean, that was Marx's point and you're only supporting it.It's legitimately amazing how these arguments inevitably boil down to asserting that "actual" economy is in fact built on literal speculation.
>>23621822I agree. Comparing central economic actors to PS5 scalpers only reinforces Marx’s critique of capitalism as driven by speculation and opportunism, not real productivity.
>>23621807>completely ignore that the person’s already stuffed and definitely won’t eat more
>>23619002>>The point is that higher labour costs do not imply a higher price>marginalist unironically thinks that companies can get away with not paying for labour and materials, or sell at a loss for an extended period of time, or sell at inflated prices indefinitelyfucking amazing. it's like a joke I saw about Böhm-Bawerk going to the mechanic and being upset that he's quoted a price based on labour and cost of materials>but what about concerts? what about art???Marx' analysis pertains to the reproduction of society, to the 99% that's actually importantit's always amusing when retards go "what about this insignificant thing that Marx doesn't say anything about??"
>>23621883>insignificant Is it really insignificant if our benevolent overlords literally built their entire power base on it, tho?
>>23621857You've read my mind.
>Jewish tranny midwit general
>>23621845>t. Brainwashed religitardIt doesn't really reinforce anything. Even if it did, a broken clock is right twice a day. Some of his critiques were accurate, especially for the time. But his writings are badly dated, and now they're pretty laughable, which is why no serious economist, mainstream or independent, takes the Jewish quack seriously. His followers are all teens with aspergers and midwits/low IQs who study arts in university (and pay hundreds of thousands for it LMAO), and literal 3rd world peasants (also low IQ) who want gibs. Cope.
>>23621813>Vociferous halfwit thinks proof of work is a pyramid schemeHahaha. You're such a fucking IDIOT.Why do silver and gold have such high value if they're useless, you stupid fucking child?
>>23621690>it is at best a theory of prices, not valueYa, prices and value have nothing to do with each other, right dumbfuck? Which astroturfed YouTube midwit did you get this from?
>>23614243Anyone can have success on Tinder when they don't have standards. Having no standards is why you're a cucked marxtard. Also bragging about getting a date is pathetic. You forgot about the part where they are disgusted by you being a creepy coom worm irl and "just want to be friends".
>>23614293>t. Countless dates and still a kissless virginI can literally smell the beta through the screen
>>23621965>Why do silver and gold have such high value if they're useless, you stupid fucking child?The absolute state
Kek. Marxists are such puerile dumbshits. Every time he gets refuted outright (multiple times itt alone), they just go>ACKSHUALLY HE TECHNICALLY WAS STILL RIGHT BECAUSE <MENTAL GYMNASTICS>You are like religious retards or cultists who are incapable of hearing anything proving their leader false.Meanwhile the state of leftism is beyond a joke, neo-marxism has been far more effective for the mongrel hordes and you're autistically screeching over old Jewish writings, knowingly or unknowingly written for Rabbis to get rid of the "problematic" concept of property rights for gentiles.Btw, no great intellects are ever marxists. Only fart-huffing petty pseuds like zizek.
>>23621994What was Marx refuted on
>>23621982Not an argument. Try again, simpleton.
>>23621998>t. Illiterate chimpPeople have been refuting the Jew Marx for the entirety of this thread, there is only mental gymnastics and cope in response to it.
>>23621690>>23621807What's up with so many marxists being obsessed with theory of value? It's literally outdated, it simply don't work in any model, no group is doing any serious reserach to use it on large scale any time soon, literally no sucessful country use it to manage their economy.Hell, even Marx started to have doubts on it, he straight up said economics of his time didn't made much sense and expected that it would drastically change over the decades which happened. He also aknowledged that there was no way to know how socialism would work with what they had.
>>23621886>our benevolent overlords literally built their entire power base on concertsare you taking the piss?>>23621969theories of value attempt to explain where prices *come from*, to uncover the underlying causal mechanism. neoclassical economists have a "theory" of prices that cannot be falsified - it can fit any observation. it doesn't actually exist to explain anything, only justify policy ex-post>>23622006point out one (1) example
>>23622021>What's up with so many marxists being obsessed with theory of value?because per the good regulator theorem, you must model a system in order to regulate it
>>23622006I just asked a question. Do you have a hormone issue?
>>23622023>neoclassical economists have a "theory" of prices that cannot be falsifiedProjection marxtard>it doesn't actually exist to explain anything, only justify policy ex-postNice opinion>>23622023>point out one (1) exampleLOL. Just read the thread you fucking halfwit. Or read a history book. You are worse cultists than Hitlertards, since they don't try to mask their zealotry and bigotry under pseudintellectualism and weasel words.
>>23622035No it's all good, dumbo. It's like asking what colour the sky is, or if you'll ever lose your virginity.
>>23622046Doesn't seem very obvious to me. Seems like you're not very familiar with Marx and can't answer it.
>>23621955>t. Expert on economic history and human intellect>Marx's critiques are outdated because he's not accepted my mainstream economists>followers of Marx must be low IQ teens or third-world peasants. very profound insight>serious critiques should not be based on real-world observations, just relevant economic theories>name-calling and deflection; rebuttals on suicide watch>arguing with you is clearly beneath you>get fucked enlightenment thinkers
>>23622064>Doesn't seem very obvious to meYes, because you're a marxist simpleton who thinks value is derived from labour and that communism is a serious ideology despite every example outright refuting these old dated theories written by a Jewish hack
>>23622084>Yes, because you're a Marxist>asked one question about Marxism and then accused anon of not knowing about that which he speaks>has not stated a position>Yes, because you're a MarxistGet your hormones checked out.
>>23622079Learn how to read and write or maybe put down the crack pipe you severely deranged antifa junkie or third world buffoon
>>23622086How fucking autistic and stupid are you? Re-read the thread instead of spouting more delusional narratives like a coping tranny.
>>23622044>cannot point out a single deboonkhitlerites continuing to not beat the allegations
>>23622030Gold has value over regular dirt because god (aka daddy Marx) put the work in to make it like that
>>23622090Idc about the thread just wanted to confirm my suspicions Thank you Read more than a wiki summary before commenting on thinkers next time
>>23622092Yes I can, the thread is full of them and they speak for themselves. You're coping after being repeatedly BTFO by a bunch of random people who are smarter than you (not hard). Anything you say henceforth is just more childish cope.
>>23622097>Idc about the threadYes, that is the point. Anything that refutes your badly dated Jew quackery is ignored by you, because you're a marxcuck simpleton.
>>23622101
>>23622104I'm not a Marxist lol. Read books
>>23622112You don't read shit.
>>23622112I do, I'm reading 2 or more at any given time. Just not out out of date Jewish quackery.
>>23622088You know what? You're an illiterate Neanderthal. Why bother? I’ll just watch as we continue down a path of consumerist slavery, where we trade chains for invisible cages of crushing debt.
>precious metals and rare earth minerals don't have value>rare art doesn't have value >military/political/business intelligence doesn't have value>Communism works>Marxist historiographyTOP KEK
>>23622164The labor theory of value critique is always how I can spot someone who hasn't read any Marx but has read the sparknotes
>>23614292>say workers are exploited because they create more value than they’re paidthats not what he said
>>23622153How will you pay for your drug addictions and estrogen pills?
>>23622170Wow good argument
>>23622164I MAKE CAKE IN 4 HOURS BUT SOMEONE MAKE BETTER CAKE IN 1 HOUR, BETTER CAKE HAS MORE VALUE, MARX WRONG
>>23622170He refuted you and you're coping>R-READ MARXEvery time
>>23622196Nothing he said has anything to do with "making" anything you unironic simpleton. Except for art, but the value isn't derived from the labour.
>>23622205They read Wikipedia
>>23622208>Still no argument JUST
>>23608811Marxism is for ugly loser atheists. Get a job and read the Bible, you parasitic leech.
>>23622229>read the Bibleimagine saying this while at the same time Jesus encourages his followers to give up their worldly possessions, whips the moneylenders and says that rich people can't get into heaven
>>23622320Cringe redditpost
>Marxtard gets refuted>Runs awayMany such cases
>>23622389Does that explain why you shut up when I start talking?
>>23621539>what determines prices thenThe price is set by the producer in order to maximize their profits. Ideally, this accounts for demand (which is typically estimated by producers).
>>23621807Congratulations, you've discovered the idea of declining marginal utility. This is something so simple even business students are taught it.
I'm indifferent to Marx but he makes this board seethe therefore he is based
>>23621965>Why do silver and gold have such high value if they're useless, you stupid fucking child?Why do counterfeit dollars?
What is with the obsession millenials have with Karl?
>>23621965>Why do silver and gold have such high value if they're uselessthey aren't useless. a large portion of both silver and gold mined goes to industry, then another large portion to jewelry, and only a final portion to investmentthe reason gold and silver cost a lot is because they take a lot of labour to produce. LTV allows us to surmise that the price of gold is much higher than we expect, likely due to speculation. this because the crustal ratios of silver:gold is 15:1 but the price ratio is closer to 80:1. because silver mines don't operate at a loss, this must mean that gold is overpriced, and not the other way around like silverbugs think. we should expect the price of gold to crash rather than the price of silver to moonTL;DR: buy silver
