The Truth is that there is no Truth. Wow thank you "based" Baudrillard Nick Land etc etc.
>>23618665truth is... le false!
>>23618738Dumb fucking retard, it's actually that the thought-to-be-false is more true than truth, you couldn't even parody it right you fucking troglodyte bastard
>>23618765Ah, got youfalse is... le truth!
>>23618798xD
>>23618665>Ecclesiastes >He doesn't get it
>>23618665positing that the Real no longer exists is useful and has predictive power. take for instance the failure of modern art. the classical ideal of art was to imitate nature. one consequence of the Real no longer existing is that our art cannot reflect anything real, thus modern art (as Baudrillard wrote elsewhere) becomes cancer: it has lost its function and endlessly self replicates with no real purpose
>>23620651have you ever heard of this thing called the Ockham's razor?
>>23618665The dude just ripped off kant
>>23620673Kant just ripped off Plato.
>>23620657whatever that is you should use on your wrists
>>23621012projection
>>23620651this makes sense
>>23621323Samefag.
>>23618665you’re back. How are you enjoying postmodernism?
>>23620681More Aristotle
You niggers need to just go back to Heraclitus, you've been filtered by every good philosopher of the last millennia, so give up. Let the intelligent people read Baudrillard, Land (lmfao), etc. you can stick with the Greek(s)
>>23618665Oh this shithead? Obfuscationist bar none.his only contribution is inventing the word "deconstruction", but not even in its modern literary meaning.There is nothing worthwhile in his work.
>>23622453>wrong>wrong>wrongwhen will you faggots stop being proud of how often you get filtered?
>whoa man, cthulhu and technoCCRU is pure kitsch
>>23618665i cant honestly fully believe in what hes saying when i feel like he cant give any satisfactory explaination for how class struggle is now meaningless or how marxist interpration of the inherent contradicitons of class struggle are no longer accurate, like just becausae simulacra exists does the real material issues caused by class society still not happen? clearly not given the massive strike wave that happened in britain
What’s the problem with Hyperreality anyway?
>>23623317Plebs don't even get reality so ofc hyperreality seems like a needless complication little do the plebs know their reality is hyperreality and the rest of us have dropped down into reality and are wondering why there's so few of us here
>>23622215>Hera>Clituskek
>>23623367>>23623317Plato already wrote about this. It's just the cave rehashed for the thousandth time.
>>23623310This is why sim and sim is the worst introduction to Baudrillard. People should read Symbolic Exchange and Death and then if interested read Mirror of Production which really eloquently lays out the problem with Marxism. The fundamental reason 'class struggle' has become meaningless is dual, which is that Marxism at its core (for Baudrillard) never really was revolutionary, it didn't evolve beyond political economy. In the modern day it's 'doubly' meaningless because society no longer revolves around production at all, neither as a mode nor in terms of relations. Rather, society experiences itself in terms of pure reproduction, via the code (keyword) of capital. Hyperreality is almost like an unintentional byproduct of this spiraling out of control of the system of reproduction. He gives different takes in his later work, but this is the core of it.>>23623317For Baudrillard there isn't actually a problem, hyperreality isn't a 'bad' situation. >>23623820No>J0Y
>>23618798false and true are le relative.The sentence "I love massive juicy dongs," could actually mean anything because muh arbitrary stipulated signs, thus it means everything and nothing and is both truth and falsity.Language is le games. Le language game! Morality is le fake game but also don't be right wing because that actually is le bad for real. K thx.
>>23620651>usefulDon't these folks generally deny any reality to the Good? IDK how they constantly invoke "pragmatism" or "use" when this itself implies some sort of standard by which the goodness of something is judged. If the Good is entirely hallucinatory then there is no reason to even prefer truth to falsity or knowledge to ignorance.
>>23618665You don't need a book to tell you that the Truth no longer exists. Man has grown too clever and the machinations he birthed have outgrown him.>>23620651I would argue the function of modern art is to paint meaning and culture but these aesthetic considerations and needs are slowly dying in a system that ultimately, in schizophrenic dialectic, skirts too close to nature: esthetics are replaced by pleasure, art is a vehicle to onanistic relief, and its expansion and replication succeeds in selecting these same triggers at the cost of Meaning as projected truth. Though until the end of the world comes we will still need Identity (shared not through birth nor state but culture in hypersocialized times, each generation with its own meaningless icons to be clast, recast and fawned upon, spoken with and through, etc), so things kind of wax and wane in that endless dance.
>>23624034>nigger doesn't know about Baudrillard's Gnosticism and affirmation of dualismWhy do you people even speak?
>>23624129>picrelToo big,nothing in excess only in moderation!
>>23623895>Nonice argument (Same)faggot, also tranny
>>23622215Heraclitus is good, he should be read in conjunction with figures like Nietzsche, Spinoza, Deleueze etc tho -- hes muchhhh more interestingly utilised by communists than any other group ive encountered
>>23623975You are... le tranny!
Do yall nigga even comtemplate de forms? Ofc truth is relative in the sensible word, there is no being in the sensible only becoming you baka niggas yall need to non ironically start with the greeks
>>23618665I enjoy this kind of literature to a level because it exposes hidden dynamics of power, but in essence is just going further in a labyrinth and provide a detailed map of it without finding an exit.There is no Truth for the humankind that rejected God. You reject God you reject the fundamental basis for Truth, you are essentially condemned to commit to false truths that with time expose themselves and only with a strong intellectual effort you overcome them, only to find yourself in a more intricate and paranoid belief system that checkmates itself. You have found no real solutions, you just unmasked man made lies without the courage to take the leap of faith back to God and ultimately turned yourself in a sterile entity of intellectual vanity, vanity that is the only thing that keeps you going even if you won't admit it.That's why I appreciate Simone Weil, because it didn't take her too long to realise this.
>>23625676If you keep reading Baudrillard you'll realize most of his work is an attempt to grasp with modern Man's lack of a spiritual relationship to God. In his personal life it is thought that he was intensely religious but he kept it very private.
>>23625698well I do get it in a sense. That's part of the reason I enjoy him. But if so, why then don't speak directly (if he does, point me to the material please)? Probably he knew he would have been canceled in a millisecond in that intellectual environment.
*destroys yr childish theorization in an essay*
>>23625723didn't realise that fishing would bother philosophy so much
cringe posts right above = the Objective Truth
>>23618665The truth may have once existed but it no longer does
>>23625723>POMO immediately displays extremely poor knowledge of his sources.Sad! Many such cases. Of course, when caught on this they will deny any duty to represent sources accurately or fairly, claim they are engaging in "creative/constructive interpretation," etc.
>>23626499No mo pomo
>>23626523>No mo pomo Isn't this sort of happening? Now that pomo lines like "we need to deconstruct their narratives," are being spewed by Brietbart Boomers, Q Boomers are applying all the pomo critiques of science to climate change and vaccine research, and even the likes of Rudy Giuliani are throwing out lines like "truth isn't truth," and "we have alternative facts," it suddenly seems that pomo has become surprisingly less cool and the Western society pomos wanted to subvert suddenly seems a lot more important. It's "played out."And analytic rationalism/humanism cannot possibly take its place. It seems equally ridiculous. A Brave New World is a stupendous success, a utopia, according to contemporary welfare economics and the measures of technocrats. Plus it would mean admitting analytics were "right" which will never happen. And it's too dry and autistic.So what will be the cool new thing? IDK, it looks like neo-neoplatonism has some legs. Or, since pomos and continentals more generally do love their signs, they could always become neo-neoscholastics. Catholic philosophy has already imbibed embodied cognition, enactivism, semiotics, virtual realism, phenomenology, etc. (in part because these were originally scholastic creations, not something new to the 20th century), so I could see them piling on to that and just removing all the icky Jesus stuff.
>>23626597>Isn't this sort of happening?It's been happening for a while now desu. POMO factually only really had a sort of staying power in propaganda and art in the 90s when Marxists tried to use it as another mindless tool and it bit them in the ass. Most Marxists nowadays don't want to hear anything about it. Philosophers retreat to their comfortable continental coasts. The cultural movement for the past 20 years, or at least post-2008 post-Obama narrative has been an unquestionable birthing of meaning from its ashes, a need to control narratives, a pro-systemic and all-encompassing hyperreality that wants you to forget it's one while it accelerates in its technological evolution past the point of turning back.The real problem with overcoming postmodernism philosophically, individually and socially is that it needs a genuine answer and the peek to the abyss it offers mindfucks and scares most who touch it. Your 100IQ normie nowadays has to deal with meaninglessness and existential dread as he or she tries their hardest to cling to their death cope. Millennial culture is rife with psychological and bodily coping. Effectively millennial politics are all about abusing this shared fear and ennui. Even fucking Marxists have to deal with the biggest flaw in their ideology (that of real power) on the daily. The only ones who seem to have an answer are also doing crack on the street, because whatever genius it is they have to share is also drowned out within the eight billion screams (that's the last of human worth digitized, gone: in screens).You can prove the irrational, but just as another fact of the many.
>>23626776>The real problem with overcoming postmodernism philosophically, individually and socially is that it needs a genuine answer and the peek to the abyss it offers mindfucks and scares most who touch it.The "purposelessness and meaninglessness of life," is not something to be overcome. It is rather axiomatic for much of contemporary philosophy. It isn't something demonstrated but something assumed.The fact is, contemporary philosophy needs life to be "meaningless and valueless." Elsewise we couldn't be Camusian Sisyphuses or Nietzschean overcomers. Likewise, for those of a more analytic bent this essential meaninglessness and valuelessness allows them to feel like they are hard, conquering men, pursuing goodness despite no duty to, and thus better than earlier men. You see this in the way Bertrand Russel talks about St. Thomas. Despite being a pretty despicable person, self serving, uncharitable, a womanizer and a betrayer of his friends in pursuit of women, he clearly thinks he is a better person because he has the "audacity to look at the truth of meaninglessness," and doesn't become a total monster. The same can be said of William Stace's similar views.But is this "valuelessness and meaninglessness" ever demonstrated. Hardly, at best you get a demonstration of how a Lockean objectivity of "in-itselfness" is incoherent. But this hardly clashes with earlier philosophy. "Everything is known in the manner of the knower," was a scholastic doctrine after all.Rather, it's something assumed true because people like to hear it. It implies that one need never feel any guilt, ever. And if one still clings to some moral precepts? Well now one is bolder than Socrates, Boethius, or any of the saints because one knows there is no value and is still decent.People aren't shocked and horrified by the death of morals, although proponents of this "death" often pretend they were and that only the clear eyed few can face up to it. Rather, Nietzsche is by far and away the best selling philosopher in our society and has been for a while. People aren't horrified by this, they find it very liberating. Think about it, all guilt and duty evaporates.And yet the argument that Goodness doesn't truly exist... that raping a child is the same as saving them from a fire, well there seems to be something obvious here.
>>23627034>The "purposelessness and meaninglessness of life," is not something to be overcome."Philosophy isn't something to be solved."It's true. Though that's a purely systemic view denounced in self-reference. In a way proof that philosophy, too, lives.
>>23627132Yeah my point though is that it's as axiomatic as God to many philosophies. Part of the reason Extended Evolutionary Synthesis is so controversial is because existentialism is a religion for many and anything that challenges the absurdity of life is thus a challenge to the religion.
>>23625707https://web.archive.org/web/20240205070106/https://baudrillardstudies.ubishops.ca/baudrillard-gnosticism-and-the-beginning-of-simulation/But also his later work 'Impossible Exchange' is worth a read in this regard.
>>23627034>And yet the argument that Goodness doesn't truly existI am begging you to actually read Baudrillard and not his wikipedia page nor watch a youtube video or any of that bullshit, just sit down, start with Mirror of Production (it's nice and short) then skip to SE&D, then Impossible Exchange for his "metaphysics."
>>23627682>>23627696>manicheanTwo principles? My religion only lets me have one! Anyway, read Plotinus Against the Gnostics. Then read Problems and Solutions Concerning First Principles by Damascius (protip: you can't have two and evil can't be primary*)*I mean you can but don't blame me when you get raped by demons in this life and the next
>>23627034that's just edgelord type of vanity, nothing too deep about that.And yes people are inclined to sell their soul for materialistic gains (in this case getting rid of guilt and duty). It all stems from rejecting God and embracing materialism. The "abyss" is just doctrinal materialism, nothing more. Most ppl are perfectly fine with it because their are to dumb even to begin to contemplate it, those who does are high on edgelord vanity and think of themselves as heroes or something for being "brave enough" to stare at it, while in reality they are just little pieces of shit.
>>23627682that's quite underwhelming
>>23628967Then read what Baudrillard wrote himself and not a secondary source retard
>>23625723Dividing forms from matter should not be regarded as classification by equal types, as with the taxonomy analogy. It should be regarded as classification by a hierarchical series of stages, or states of consciousness.
>>23626597Integral is the way to go. Now that the deconstructive project is complete, and knowledge has been ruthlessly diced up into a pile of parts, they must be integrated into a seamless whole. This can be done by classifying them according to the level of development they originate from, from archaic to magic to mythic to rational to pluralistic to integral, with the recognition that they each have a partial truth but that they are still nested hierarchically, with higher views transcending and including lower ones.For example, you could honour the truths of alchemy which are to do with drawing correspondences between elements, colours, directions and so on, while seeing that the alchemists' relatively primitive understanding of molecular and atomic structure is transcended in chemistry, which arose at a rational level of development.
>>23629476A Gebser anon? On my board??? Based
>>23629477Not just Gebser but Piaget, Kohlberg, Loevinger, Fowler, and the synthesizer Wilber. Try this: https://integrallife.com/what-is-integral-approach/It's simplistic but the basic ideas are solid and thought-provoking. Never mind the part where they try and get you to sign up for the website, there's like a year's worth of content free online and on Youtube
>>23629497I worked my way thru a Wilber book which was gifted me a while back. Was enriching. Lost it when moved though. Didn't hear of Gebser till of recent thru Aaron Cheak, funky fresh contemporary alchemist man. Check his articles online if you wish. Gebser is fantastic. I also like Aurobindo. Life Divine was life-changing. Haven't read the other authors you mention. But bless indeed sir.
>>23620651It's more like it's fucking boring to paint the same landscape in realistic style after centuries of doing it, at that point just take a photo. Those who can only appreciate art if it's "life-like" are total brainlets and that's not what Baudrillard meant
>>23629525>just take photosSometimes you may wish to paint something that you cannot model without special effects or practical effects which is also art>muh baudy was good lefty and would never diss my pomo artActually, the move away from representation in art and signs in general is precisely among main part and parcel of his argument
Do I need to read this before tackling Simulacra and Simulation? I started S&S and it's incomprehensible to me.
>>23618665literally just watch the matrix you brainlet, there is no spoon
