μῆνιν ἄειδε edition >τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>23602883>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANEhttps://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Eastern and Western classical languages are welcome
Lingua Latina or Wheelock?
>>23619190Comennius' graded reader series: 1) Vestibulum 2) Orbis Pictus 3) Janua.
>>23619300>Si principium erit difficile, medium erit facile, finis icundusThat feel when permanently stuck at difficile.
>>23619190Both.
Bumpus
>>23620336>bumping the fifth postlet it die
>>23620643Lick my shit
Is /clog/ dead
τῶν θυρωρῶν τήνδε κάτ' ἀγορὴν οὕτω καὶ ὑπερφυῶς πανπονηροτάτων ἐὀντων βουλοίμην ἄν τοιάδ' ἐμφανῶς διαγγέλλειν· πρηνεῖς ἰόντων οὑτοιὶ Ἄιδος εἴσω εἰ μὴ δύναιντ' ἀπάγξασθαι κατὰ τὸν σφῶν τρόπον
>>23619300where can I find this?
>>23620920Not that anon, but I found it on libgenhttps://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=755C1F5EE3E35C2F3B5946D673347A09
>>23621080Gratias tibi ago vir incognite
Old Norse is a ridiculous parasite in my brain
>>23621721that's what happens when you allow raiders into the home of your bran
>>23619041I'm going to read all the major classical and non Christian Koine authors. Then the entirety of Migne's PG from volume 1 to volume 161, in order. Then all of Corpus Scriptorum Historiae Byzantinae.
>starting with any of your shitty books like Logos or Athenaze or Alpha to OmegaReal chads open up Clyde Pharr's 1920 edition of HOMERIC GREEK and start reading ILIAD after 23 pages.Fuck your Anabasis. If you didn't start with Homer, you didn't start with the Achaeans.
>>23622642why do week 1 learners always come with this same cocky energy? did you see my post in the homer thread shilling for pharr and just read the preface?
>>23623201Keep consooming your readers, Raniericuck, while week 1 newGODS dive straight into Homer.
>>23622564>Migne's PG>Corpus Scriptorum Historiae ByzantinaeJust looked those up on google books / internet archive. It's crazy how for the authors not even 200 years ago it was apparently obvious that in order to accound for uneducated plebs who might need help with their Greek, they provide a translation... in Latin.
Reading Plato or Xenophon is like living after 1,000 days of nofapReading Koine shit is like wading through a dark forest where each word has 100 different meanings, prepositions don't give a fuck what case a noun is, and the author was either some GSL or way too over-educated and wrote the purplest prose possible
Reading Plato in the Greek has made me realize that Socrates was just the og boomer truthed up faggot. Seriously it's impossible to read 90% of what he says as not being snide or sarcastic.
>>23623201Because they haven't hiked for a mile yet. The fatigue will hit when they get to 3rd declension nouns. Then they will die of exhaustion when realize how autistically precise the verbal system is.
>>23624003>Reading Plato or Xenophon is like living after 1,000 days of nofapWhat did he mean by this?
>>23624043Accurate
>>23624084You have utter mental clarity at that point, analogous to their very clear and understandable Greek.
>>23624003>prepositions don't give a fuck what case a noun isBased
>>23624109Imagine if "on" (position), "against" and "on the condition that" were all the same word in English. That's literally ἐπί + dat in some Koine writers (plus a billion other meanings). The different meanings used to be distinguished by whether they went with genitive, dative or accusative but that was too spicy for the Hellenistic period I suppose.
>>23624263I've read plenty and yes most of the time it's clear by context just like "by" but it's still confusing in ambiguous situations. Attic is just in general much clearer.
>>23624143How is that versatility more daunting than e.g. English “by” which can be proximity, agency, method, unit of measurement, etc? Sounds like you just need to read more.
>>23619190Wheelock, then when you're done use Fabulae Syrae, Ad Alpes, and the rest of the LLPSI readers
>>23624043Truth is indeed ugly, and reason a whore.
but there is no point in learning ancient greek
>>23625130homeros
>>23624043>og boomer truthed up faggotWhat?
Sometimes, reading Latin really does improve your English.I learnt the word obtest today. It doesn't even exist in my native French.
>>23625669watch aa's boomer truth regime
>>23624273Based!>>23625130Dead Greeks are the only ones listening to. It's why learning Hindi would be pointless.
Saw a venetian lion the other day, holding a book in which this is written:>pax tibi marce evangelista meusI understand what it means (Peace to you, Marcus, my evangelist), but shouldn't "meus" be "mea"? It's not even masculine vocative.
>>23625927According to wiktionary>evangelista m or f by sense (plural evangelistas)>(Christianity) evangelist
>>23625817One year of Latin taught me more about English grammar than 12 years in American public schooling
>>23625938Same. The only things I remember as explicit grammatical instruction is the difference between your and you're, there and their, and writing a lot not alot. Also the whole "don't begin a sentence with a FANBOY" but I guess the teacher couldn't be bothered with teaching us how to write sentences with more than one clause and the intricacies of inverted syntax. Probably why everyone who had to study a foreign language in high school were filtered by something as simple as conjugation, including me.
>>23625937What the hell? I've got none of that on my wiktionary. Also that still doesn't explain not using the masculine vocative for meus but maybe it just fell out of favor
>>23625927Use dictionaries (plural)
>>23625973>wiktionarycome on now
>>23625973meus can and is used as a vocative
How long did it take you guys to get proficient at Greek/Latin for reading actual books?
>Pygmalion vero, qui primo amicam inanimatam inveniebat, feminas, quas superbas esse putabat, nullas amabat.one of us
what's the best way to become a fluent writer in your target language? I've realized I don't do a lot of composition practice but I'm working with a dead language here. Not like I can go out into the street and practice. I'm generally okay reading basic sentences with a dictionary but actually writing something from scratch is where I fuck up. Not sure how I'm supposed to fix this total failure caused by lack of practice and diligence.
>>23626071Define proficient
>>2362607110 years of going through the Ranieri method to read the Evangle of Mark.
>>23626121in years of frequenting /clg/ we were never able to really come up with a permanent way to practice writing ITT, it's always brief nugai/φλυαρίαι that don't go anywhere, and that makes me think how it's kinda the same if you plan to do it personally, i.e, unless you have some actual reason to write in your TL, like for example how people had to get proficient writing Latin because they had to academically write in Latin and by doing that they got their proficiency, then it's not easy to dobald man recently pointed out to the method of writing a diary entry every day and re-reading it, and starting even from simple, elementary sentences and progressing from there, but it doesn't sound much fun, even though I ca see it workingthe same applies to modern languages anyway, at the very least when you have started learning them for largely passive purposes
>>23626121>>23626261I would write more in Greek here but I hate having to place the accents desu. I can actually talk in Greek to an ok level.
>>23626121There are composition textbooks out there. I can't speak to their efficacy, since I'm a lazy shit and never got that far through one.
>>23626261>writing a diary entry every day and re-reading ithow are you supposed to check if your writing is sound? use google translate to check?
>>23626310by being already more fluent in reading, I guess; I suppose it's not a method for those that haven't recent a decent plateau of reading proficiencyI get the logic, I can more easily tell if I have written something idiomatic than I can write it from scratch, since the passive and active recall faculties are heavily skewed towards the former
how reliable is AI bots as translators? Do they make up for regular translation software?
>>23626403Do not trust AI, at least for Ancient Greek. It SUCKS. I've found for Latin it can get the gist of easier texts (i.e 19th century prefaces) but it makes a lot of errors. I saw some blog that was putting untranslated early Christian works into some chatbot and then publishing the translations on his blog...this guy had been writing about early Christianity for like 30 years too, and he still hasn't learned Greek? How could you be that lazy? I guess it's the STEMcel «trust the computers» mindset. Of course the translation sucked too.
>>23626095Basatum
>>23626426No reason you couldn't specifically design a program for this purpose. Too bad STEMtards have no interest in Greek and l33t haxxx00rs only care about Latin when they need an edgy pseudonym.
>>23626483AI still gets tripped up on French and other languages with unlimited content to feed into it. How could it do well with Ancient Greek?
>puellam complexus osculatus estis est being distributed across two participles? do latin really be like this?
>>23626734Perhaps one of these is a participle, ie adjective describing him?
>>23626748>he, having been hugged, kissed the girl>he, having been kissed, hugged the girl>he hugged and kissed the girlI dunno bro. What would you have done?
I'm learning proto turkic
>>23626734They usually don't even put an est
>>23626734no, one is a participle, complexus, having active meaning just like the deponent verb it comes from, 'osculatus est' is the (periphrastic) perfect of osculor
>>23626867is puellam shared as the object of both?
>>23626893yup
>>23626734>He embraced and kissed the girl. this is why you should buy wheelocks. latin likes to compress whereas English needs to spell it all out because it's a language for retards.
Why is perseus still fucked?
>>23626071>proficientYou will always need a dictionary. Less the more you learn but still necessary.A couple years of dedicated reading and study after finishing an introductory textbook should be enough to make you comfortable reading. There will still be hangups. YMMV
Redpill me on Syriac
>>23628024Apparently there's a Classical Syriac-Classical Syriac dictionary so it already mogs Greek. Damn. Kind of considering this now.
>>23628063mind of a child
>>23628100How so? I'm just considering what classical language I'll tackle next now that I can read Greek and Latin without difficulty. I want to understand eastern Church history after I read Atiya's history more so why not Syriac?
>>23627981has been for longuse Scaife viewer if need be
>>23628119yeah but I need the search function, and that's broken on scaife too.
Why do publishers not use macrons? Did you drop pronouncing long vowels when discovered no text in major libraries (Gutenberg, Perseus, Wikisource, /clg/'s archive) ever has them marked?
>>23628381It's how the tradition came down to us, the same way arabic is written without horouf.If you care much about pronunciation, you should memorize the positions of long vowels or try at least.
>>23628381Ranierilets actually NEED their macrons lmfaoTry reading a manuscript with all capital letters and without spaces you dumb nigger If you can't read inscriptions and manuscripts you don't know Greek/Latin.
do you read a text in translation before reading it in the original, or do you just dive into it?
>>23625130based nihilist
>>23629372Just dive into it. Always. Tbh I read even most of the New Testament, apart from Matthew, first in Greek since I wasn't raised Christian.
>>23628024Seconding this anon
I used to think French and Italian were fancy languages. Now that I've learned Latin, absolute peasant-tier. Goes without saying that my estimation of Anglo letters has also fallen even more. Woe to you if you read "literature" in barbaric languages.
>>23629685You're like a previously unwashed peasant who took a quick bath and now looks down on all his former companions. Greekgods are the true aristoi.
>>23629343nobody reads manuscripts you dumb larper
>>23629716>Greekgods are the true aristoiWho fell under the Roman yoke.
>>23629746medievalists dothey're pretty much the master race among latinists
>>23629685>>23629716>>23629772Both of you have got to be American. You're clearly incapable of studying classical languages for pure academic or intellectual purposes without bringing your trad larp into it.Also, if you've ever regarded a language as inherently fancy, you were always a midwit.
>>23629343maybe they are actually interested in classical poetry and don't particularly care about what fat balding monks wrote in the middle ages or what some garum seller in pompeii wrote as a shitpost to pass the time on a wall, to each its own
>>23629823If you can't read poetry without macrons you don't actually know Latin lmfao. Keep coping though.>>23629746The people who edit the texts you read do because they actually know Latin.
>>23629794It's just bantz you obsessed Eurotranny. Latin vs Greek is a time honored tradition here.
>>23629772>Who fell under the Roman yo-ACK> In Italy, the war devastated the urban society that was supported by a settled hinterland. The great cities were abandoned as Italy fell into a long period of decline.> In the long sweep of Italian history, the unified Italy of the Romans, and later the Goths, was broken up permanently; this remained the case until the unification of Italy in the 19th century.We got our revenge.
>>23629890>my idea of bantz is arguing about which of those two ancient peoples were the best based on my own sensibilities as a fat circumcised jew spawnSchoolboy mindset. You ought to have studied military history instead, at least we'd know where you're coming from.
Students of classical languages tier list>God tier: Classical Greek, Koine/Patristic Greek, Byzantine Greek>Demigod tier: Syriac, Arabic, Coptic, Armenian, medieval Latin>ἥρως tier: Sanskrit, Classical Chinese>Shit tier: Classical Latin
>>23629913How does it feel knowing that we have mentally raped and colonized you? You are basically an American no matter how much you deny it.
>>23629926How does it feel knowing that you will never be Greek or Latin? You honestly remind me of a certain group that likes to larp as the opposite sex...
>>23629947I am Roman. I am a Rhomaic("Byzantine")-American. Just not a Latin dog.
>>23629958Numquam Romanus eris, sicut viri feminae non possint fieri.
>>23629794ooga booga nigga fr fr nah mean?
>>23629923> Thinks medieval latin and classical latin are two different languages.NGMI
>>23630143I didn't say that you illiterate retard. It's about the people who study these languages. Medieval Latinists and Classicists are different groups even if they study the same language. Learn to read English before you try to learn any foreign language.
>>23630155niggas be ahh he wid a 5th grade reading level tryna learn latin and greek bruh i can't w dese mfsὅστις γὰρ ἔχει, δοθήσεται αὐτῷ καὶ περισσευθήσεται· ὅστις δὲ οὐκ ἔχει, καὶ ὃ ἔχει ἀρθήσεται ἀπ’ αὐτοῦ.
Easily the worst thread we've had since the Mexcriment troll fucked off
>>23629923Real asf
>>23630155Retard
>>23630264dasrite dis mf bix nood mf retard bruh str8 fax tho talmbout medieval latin how b u get some mid latina pussy then u aint finna b talmbout that shit
>>23629923Arabic should be in god tier for just how complex it is and how damn hard it is to learn. Classical Chinese and Japanese should be in demigod tier.
when will this fucker erupt again? I'm getting bored
>>23630542Japanese belongs in the same category as Medieval Hungarian or Finnish.It's a national interest.
>>23624143>getting filtered by idiom
>>23629923All wrong.God Tier:>Classical/Homeric/Koine Greek>Medieval LatinDemigod Tier:>Syriac>Classical Chinese (especially seal script)Mortal Heroes Tier:>Classical LatinHelot Tier:>s*nshit>Aramaic>>23630542Arabic isn't from the classical period. It's also not really all that complex. The alphabet is a degraded form of Syriac Estrangela/Serta. Japanese also develops out of the medieval period.
>>23630667>It's also not really all that complex.Clearly you know nothing about Arabic. Also Wenli Chinese isn't from the classical period either.
>>23630686>Clearly you know nothing about ArabicClearly you can't even debate me. Otherwise, you would have.>Also Wenli Chinese isn't from the classical period either.Seal script is definitively used in the classical period, in classical Chinese. You're introducing things no one said. Punching at shadows.
>>23630696I'm really just dumbfounded by your claim that Arabic is not all that complex. Its like saying calculus isn't all that complex. How do you begin to debate someone who says something so retarded? Given that Arabic is generally considered among the hardest languages to learn, why would you think its not all that complex? What's your reasoning for such an counterintuitive claim? >Seal script is definitively used in the classical period, in classical Chinese.Classical period is used in many senses. One is to refer to the Ancient Greeks and Romans, another is to refer to Vedic India, and another to refer to China from the Spring and Autumn period to the Tang dynasty. Classical is also used for Arabic (7th cen. to the late Ottoman period) hence the term "Classical Arabic" and "Classical Arabic literature" which is widely used. Stop being a faggot.
>>23630737In my opinion, Arabic is somewhat easier than latin or greek for someone whose native tongue is not related to their target language.Plus, learning arabic today is 100 times easier, for the simple reason that there is a ton of audio input compared to latin or greek.
>>23630737>Its like saying calculus isn't all that complexAlso true.>How do you begin to debate someone who says something so retarded? Here is what I think: You have a low IQ. You are projecting that onto others who don't agree with you as a coping mechanism. >Given that Arabic is generally considered among the hardest languages to learnFor English speakers. This is largely due to a completely foreign lexicon. >why would you think its not all that complex? What's your reasoning for such an counterintuitive claim?Because if you've studied any other tangentially related script system the writing is easy. Learning other alphabets for non-language learners is often seen as far more difficult than it is. It's almost a joke among Slavic learners in America that you can impress people by deciphering Cyrillic, even when the words are cognates with English. What is there that is so difficult compared to other languages? There are not an exceptional number of moods like there are in Greek or Mongolian, there are only three cases, there are duals but Greek and older languages have that as well, declensions rhyme with one another and repeat- so overall it seems only marginally more difficult than modern Greek. I'm failing to see how it would be difficult. The only unusual thing is that 2nd person pronouns and words have gender attached (so "you" can be masc. or fem.). The only reason I wouldn't learn it is that it looks and sounds worse than other Semitic alternatives.
>>23631027This
>>23631027>no, I don't know Arabic>let me tell you all about it and how difficult it is
>>23630542Weebs actually think Japanese is a classical language lmao.
>>23630737The only hard thing about Arabic is the script
>>23631293and no this isn't just newbie pleb cope. It actually takes a significant amount of time to reach a good reading speed in a new script.
byzantine minuscule looks like something out of a sci-fi movie
>>23628381its not that hard to figure out where the macrons are 95% of the time with a little practice, and if you don't know, chances are it doesn't matter or change the meaning of the sentence. I can only think of short and long -a for ablative/nominative first declension, and short and long -us for 4th declension. Authors tend to write in an unambiguous way for these cases.
I am fucking sick of the ablative. Absolutely nothing is gained by not having more prepositions. Greek is a pleasure to read once you get even halfway decent at it. Latin is like reading while a little gnome shifts the words around and goes "teeheehee or perhaps it's THIS?"
>>23631226Can you argue conceptually how it is more difficult? You don't have to memorize a dictionary to judge a languages difficulty and if that's all you did then it won't prepare you to argue the difficulty level of a language.
>>23631784>Absolutely nothing is gained by not having more prepositions. Greek is a pleasure to read once you get even halfway decent at it. Latin is like reading while a little gnome shifts the words around and goes "teeheehee or perhaps it's THIS?"Everything about this is completely relatable holy shit
>>23631456Not a fan. :|
>>23631784>>23631802Filtered
>>23631784>Latin is like reading while a little gnome shifts the words around and goes "teeheehee or perhaps it's THIS?"Of all the ways to be filtered by Latin this is the most pathetic
>>23631456Dude...that's AWESOME!!!! 100% study fuel.>>23631820Can it, woman! The men are talking!
One year from now, I too, will be a cool types-in-Greek-and-Latin-that-actually-makes-sense bro. Mark it, nuncle.
>>23632234>Can it, woman! The men are talking!Looks too much like Serta.>>23632058>Of all the ways to be filtered by Latin this is the most patheticHe has a point. Prepositions are innately superior. The ablative is silly. But then again, Latin's entire declension system is incredibly gay.
>>23631027As an Arabic speaker I actually agree, the difficulty of Arabic is overblown. The only thing I can see being hard for learners is the broken plurals.>The only reason I wouldn't learn it is that it looks and sounds worse than other Semitic alternatives.This I could never understand, modern Hebrew sounds like vomit. Arabic sounds like an authentic semitic language, so maybe you just don't like the sound of semitic.
>>23632577>modern Hebrew sounds like vomit. Arabic sounds like an authentic semitic languageCorrect on both counts. I'm an Assyrian - Syrian fanboy. Arabic is exponentially better sounding than Hebrew and you're right they don't even try to sound authentic.
