>>23621563
Glory to Arstotzka! Thanks for the nostalgia attack

>>23621666
It's a miracle how good this game was

>>23621563
I can tell you.
Old epic poems, such as the Iliad or Odyssey are collections of myths and retellings about an event that one person compiled into a storytelling form only to be written down later.

Things like the Bible also have a fuckton of authors, it's history is so complicated there is a special field of study dedicated to it.

Other epics that are known to have (mostly) one author or usually ripoffs or heavily based on another work, (making writing an epic much easier,) that is a ripoff or a compilation itself.

For instance Virgil's Eneid is a blatant ripoff of the Iliad and Odyssey, while Dante's Divide Comedy is a fanfic of the Bible imitating Virgil's writing style (of whom Dante was a fanboy of) and inspired by comtemporary poems, stories and tropes found therein.

>>23622301
Modern "epics" such as Discworld, Wheel of time etc. are usually expanded upon by the author writing by the seat of their pants because the series got popular and is a viable source of income.
They are usually not preplanned and so they usually devolve into Monster of the Week type series or rely on Status Quo is God like the Simpsons, they rely more and more on cliches as they run out of ideas or their gimmick runs dry and because there is no forthought these series usually have an unsatisfactory/rushed ending or even no ending at all.

>>23622309
And then you have franchises like DC comics and warhammer 40k, that are written by lots of authors in parallel that constantly contradict and retcon eachother because no one author can hope to remember every detail of the convoluted mess that the plot it.
These series too usually rely heavily on the reset button of the conflict being inconsequential to the series at large (i.e. Status Quo is God) and as such have no bearing on general character development, while having a definite ending would kill the cash cow, and with no ending the overarching conflict of these series becomes pointless to the readers because they know no matter what happens it is ultimately inconsequential.

>>23622321
That the plot is*
Also they have their own ideas for what the backstory/ characters should be/act like

>>23622301
Oh yeah, and eastern epics, such as the Journey to the West, Water Margin etc. rely on historical records and folk tales/chinese mythology and also use the Monster of the Week format found in the odyssey, but much more blatantly and with its own story structure.
These stories are the templates for modern japanese shonen "epics" such as One Piece and Dragon Ball Z, whitch also eitheir don't have, or have a razor thin overarching plot, and rely on a barely changing status quo or a monster of the week type deal (also notice all of these are almost exclusivly combat focused series, because character development requires planning instead of tossing situation willy nilly as the deadline for publication approaches).

>>23622301
The Divine Comedy doesn't really imitate Virgil's style. Paradise Lost, on the other hand

What about stuff like Gaddis' Recognitions

>>23622843
I have not read nor heard of that novel before, so I cannot say

>>23622121
Check out "Suzerain" - differerent genre but same politics & great writing.
Or "Need to Know", same gameplay mechanics somewhat, but in the glowie era.

>>23623148
Suzerain is interesting and quite wide of player choice but is rather long winded and preachy (bad for replays)

>>23623161
Yeah but even a single playthrough is memorable enough. When I started playing and my people were cheering me, I quickly went out and bought two cigars which I then smoked while playing through the game the entire day (unfortunately got assassinated after winning the re-election lol)
A memorable day

>>23622301
>>23622309
>>23622321
>>23622358
not very exciting when you frame it like this

I made a living as a writer for many years, treated it like a job to survive on.

I often think about aspiring writers. People who dream of becoming a writer, even since childhood. I was not one of them, I simply took it as a job to survive.

Drafting their manuscripts, writing and rewriting, shopping it around, test readers. World building, workshopping, and so on. Yet never actually getting paid to write, which is the job description.

I think this applies to a lot of things. These people have built up an idea of what "being a writer" is like with all their emotional attachments and preconceptions. They become their own greatest obstacle to achieving their dreams.

>>23623233

>They become their own greatest obstacle to achieving their dreams.

Because they don't have someone telling them:

>I believe in you, you can do it!

Many fear rejection, or writing anything short of perfection.

Yet many of these great authors in history were simply trying to pay the bills.

Many of them started out as journalists as well, professional experience with editors, publishing.

Becoming a writer is no fantasy. It's often a decision of judgment by editors/publishers, or even to pass a job interview.

Look at how many great novels were passed up as manuscripts. Set your ego aside, it is necessary to endure rejection and persevere.

Perseverance, perseverance, perseverance. You try, you fail, you learn, you try again. You try and try until you get better and succeed in earnest.

This is how you make it in these little kingdoms without some sort of nepotism, be it familial, political, or religious. You have to respect competence and persistence.

>>23623233
Yeah it's a weird combination of
1. the public getting worse and worse: before the 70s you wrote for men who went through war and women beaten daily who havent had sex since their wedding... believe me that they could sniff out even an angstrom of bullshit
2. writing and publishing become more accessible (modern marketing tools, like you mentioned) so the "writers" eager to please -- both the public and the publisher, like some $5 hooker -- become the overwhelming majority and set the standards
Sure one could say that Homer, Ovid, von Eschenbach etc. also did nothing else but "survive" through their profession... but back then if you didn't charm the snake you ended up dead, not just with minimum wage

>>23623567
>nothing else but "survive" through their profession
I mean survive until he next dinner or jug of wine, not survive the test of time

>>23623230
It is the truth, in essence if you are writing a longrunner you are almost always taking heavy inspiration from something (usually epic texts or religious ones).

As >>23623233 said most writers write as a job, they oftentimes run out of ideas or passion but continue writing anyway since they need to survive.

Of course, all this doesn't mean that the works I mentioned are necessarily bad in quality, for instance the Divine Comedy is an exceptional work that is brimming with creativity and you can tell Dante enjoyed writing it due to the constant criticisms he throws at contemporary and historical politicians and religious leaders along with his gushing over virgil through his self insert.

It is not impossible for a work to be epic in length and scope while being thematicly complete (i.e. all events in the story are related to the main theme and relevant in the future as events themselves, rather then merely as a source of some power for the MC or a mcguffin).
You can see this in Tolstoy's War and Peace for example, an exeptional work, or if you want a moire modern exmaple Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood, where the various themes that follow the various characters lead to a thematicly appropriate resolutions in the end.
This type of writing however, requires EXTREME planning and dilligence on the writer's part, it requires a clear idea of the general theme of the plot, its interviewing for it to be both reasonable (that is, not contrived) for characters to act in a way that furthers their character development and a high degree of vigilance against cliches and other pitfalls via the study of the works of predecessors.
Such conditions are impossible for most people due to a lack of education, time and money in a capitalist system that is risk-averse and relies heavily on rushing deadlines and the exploitation of writers to meet profit expectations.

>>23623567
Today you're only writing for a very small and oftentimes specific branch of the population. Readers who are already orbiting around the same established canon. It's a hell of a lot more difficult to reach them, especially considering that most never bother with ''proper'' contemporary novels, nor do they get a chance to hear about your book, but if they do pay attention to you then it's easier than ever before to convince them that you're pretty good at what you do. Just look at the middling works that are being hailed as prophetic and lucid these days. Houellebecq is a great example of this desu. It's better to pull some elaborate publicity stunt to get some reach first before you end up publishing anything.

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>>23621563
>"A poet is the creator of the nation around him, he gives them a world to see and has their souls in his hand to lead them to that world."
-Johann Gottfried Herder

>>23624502
Way to blow smoke up your own delusional ass god damn

>>23623233
That's why the based path is living as an anonymous nobody and working a shitty day job until you die, but writing and releasing the world's greatest novel before you go. Then catapulting to posthumous glory, Kafka style.

Most long books were released on a weekly basis. That's how writers survived and readers had a sustainable source of entertainment.

>>23625083
it was before television