Imagine a fantasy novel that features an army marching to battle. The battle is hard fought, but the heroic side wins. Afterwards, the main hero celebrates the victory by consorting with a paramour. That's the plot. Now, let's assess male and female-oriented versions of this story.In the male-oriented version...>We'll begin with an in-universe prologue written in third person omniscient High Tolkienesque style. Thereafter, the book will be written in the close third person point of view of a character who has almost no emotions or inner monologue.>There'll be detailed descriptions of the mustering and march of the army with orders of battle that prover the author is the world's leading expert in 13th century Genovese military history. >We'll see several angry war councils in which angry men anger each other angrily because everyone else is either reckless or cowardly. >The battle will begin with a tragic skirmish that costs the life of a beloved side character. >The battle itself will cover 3-4 chapters, in which the main hero will lose his armor, break his weapon, be covered in gore, and accomplish some battle-winning feat. Real-world military tactics will be used.>A B plot point of view will illustrate what it's like for the band of delta brothers on the front lines, in which they will express that while war is hell, it's better than working the fantasy equivalent of a desk job at Ikea. Many will die bravely without regret, except for the married one, who will get a poignant death scene.>Afterwards, the main hero will find his paramour and there'll be a sly suggestion of intimacy to finish: "Conandude eyed the beauty. 'Aye, lass, now it's time to come to my tent.' " In any case, no actual sex will take place, ever, and it is possible that this will be true of the author in real life as well. >The End.
In the female-oriented version...>We'll begin in close third-person or first person with emotional descriptions of the nervous fear of soldiers mustering for battle, with commentary that the fear is making the main hero horny. >The orders of battle will be vaguely described to the hero, probably by a low-tier gamma male who she ignores, while the main hero fixates on whether her paramour will survive the battle because he's not the chosen one like her, though he is a billionaire vampire dragon knight. >The lead-up to the battle will take 60-70% of the book, during which time we will learn about the main hero's childhood struggle to master her inner demons and her need to maintain her independence from the amazing billionaire vampire dragon knight that threatens to overwhelm her with his raw sex appeal.>During the battle, the main hero will save everyone by unleashing special powers that only she has. Her annoying bitchy rival will die unredeemed. No real-world military tactics will be used, or if they are, it will be by the losing side, to its humiliation. The whole battle will only take 1 chapter. >Afterwards there will be a chapter describing the psychological horror of having had to fight a war. The main hero may wander the battlefield distraught until she finds comfort in the arms of the billionaire vampire dragon knight, who will finally open up to her emotionally.>The next 2-3 chapters will describe in intimate detail her consortium with her paramour with details on what it's like as he shapeshifts into dragon form. Male readers will stop at this point in horror at what cannot be unlearned.>Finally, the book will end with the main hero, billionaire vampire dragon knight at her side, giving a speech commemorating the battle and pledging to end all war forever. >The End.
>>23628553Because they were pushed out by editors who prioritize diversity hires since they are more profitable.
>>23628553Men don’t read nor write anymore
Name one good fantasy novel from the past decade.
>>23628587the unholy consult
>>23628587My diary desu
>>23628761Moid rape lit. It's like 600 pages of just one stupid battle after ending on a different two battles. Huurr, me moid. Me fight! Me keep every female character pregnant!
>>23628794I will now read your book
>>23628556Sexist chud
>>23628553>Fantasy and Sci-Fiwho cares lol
>>23628810He's got a point tho
>>23628794>Huurr, me moid. Me fight! Me keep every female character pregnant!thanks for the recommendation
>>23628565ThisVideo games and anime were a catastrophe for male reading
just reads like misogyny desu, have you tried interacting with women?
tl;dr
>>23628553This seems like it's comparing fantasy by male authors with romance novels by female authors, which just use a fantasy setting as a vector for the softcore erotica. The comparison doesnt make sense
>>23628565/thread
>>23628794>Huurr, me moid. Me fight! Me keep every female character pregnant!I wish it was that based.
I wouldn't know if this is true or not because I don't read books by female authors
>>23629315I agree. When I think of fantasy written by women, the first thing that comes to mind for me is Deltora Quest (since I read the hell out of that series as a kid) and nothing that quintessentially seperates it from fantasy written by men immediately jumps to mind.As far as specifically female-oriented fantasy goes that isn't actually a romance novel in disguise, I typically think of something like Warriors - where the focus is on a complex web of interpersonal relationships between individuals and clans, and the struggle of the main cast to navigate it while maintaining their individuality.
genre writing is immature self indulgence. that's what their reader base wants
Women ruin every single hobby they touch
>>23628553The thing that triggers me most about this is that the men’s sci-fi/fantasy story was just real history for men at basically any other period of time. This is the most dog shit era for men in history and you simply cannot convince me otherwise. Even if you march to war, you’re expected to be a good nice boy or else some JAG will throw you in prison. Clown world.
>>23628564Are they? I find it really hard to believe these books are selling. Female-oriented fantasy sells I bet but the PoC fetish novels definitely do not sell. Although, I recently learned that in white liberal upper middle class areas “books by black authors” is one of the more successful genres at Barnes & Noble. It’s really crazy how pathetic we’ve become as a people.
>>23628794What’s this book called? The Unholy Consult? Hmm I’ll have to check it out.
>>23629491Anon, Sarah J. Maas has sold at least 38M books, Rupi Kuar has sold at least 3M copies of Milk and Honey. Those books are low quality and easy to produce, so they are generating maximum profits.Women will buy anything that they see on booktok and will dismiss any criticism with a swift "let people enjoy things".
>>23628553>>23628556 Today an average man in his 20s is a feminized chud who seeks literature of female authors and actively rejects anything masculine.In simple terms men themselves do not want masculine literature so getting into the reasons for this, trying to analyze it is just a waste of time.
>>23628553GRRM is the last male fantasy writer. Accept it.
>>23629591Tad Williams actually writes books unlike Martin
>>23629591Nope, he's jew, therefore he doesn't count. Perhaps someone like Terry Goodkind
>>23628587Murtagh, from this year
>In any case, no actual sex will take place, ever,Why do people think only women write sex in sci-fi or fantasy? Really weird generational shift.
>>23628553>Real-world military tactics will be usedname 3
>>23628553Currently there are like 5 threads on /lit/ about male vs female literature. It's being pushed.This is a psy-op. While I don't disagree with the point they are trying to make, those who engage in psy-ops regardless of the argument, only have their own interests in mind.
>>23628556I hate how accurate this is. THIS shit is what killed genre fiction.
>>23628556>>23628553Thank god we've got assloads of SF/F written by guys who spent 50+ years just writing it. It'll take me a lifetime to work through all the Asimov, Heinlein, Poul Anderson, Frederick Pohl, Michael Moorcock, Jack Vance, and etc. As for female sf/f writers, I swear to god that I'd rather read C. L. Moore or Leigh Brackett or Andre Norton or even Ursula Le Guin than touch the modern stuff. Give me some meat and bones to the literature. Action, adventure, high concept ideas, horror. . . just give me shit that isn't wanking about muh trauma or rape fic (looking at you Atwood). There's a very good reason the vintage authors are still in print or widespread on digital shops. Anyways I tend to read vintage sci-fi/fantasy more often because I figure that it's not a waste of my time and enjoyment. I'd rather read an Alfred Bester or Robert E. Howard or Avram Davidson or Fredric Brown short story than go buy whatever modern slop is out there. Fuck me, we need to popularize this shit again. God, I think when I was a boy in the 2000s they were still reprinting Poul Anderson and Andre Norton's works in Baen anthologies. This shit still sells. I hope more frens just pick up these classic authors in the genre in any form they can because it's obvious we're not gonna get a quality improvement from the majority of major publishers/modern writers. Fuck me, I can think of maybe barely a dozen living SF/F writers that are currently active and worth a damn. Moorcock's finally finishing his Eternal Champion series and he's doing it before GRRM finishes his bullshit.
>>23629679>new coomers bad>old coomers goodOld authors were all obsesed with females (and subsequently were feminized), they were just more subtle less open about it unlike the modern authors. There is tons of subversive and progressive ideas and smut in old scifi and fantasy, it's just more subtle.
>>23629237By their fruits ye shall know them. >the male form is a result of natural selection, female sexuality, rape and female machiavellianism .. >two male formed beings kissing one another produces a disgust reaction in human males, equivalent to watching maggots roll around in rotten flesh>the female form has inherent value, even as a .png, resulting in a number of millionaires who merely sold images of their own bodiesWomen are intriguing. They see many errors far before men do, and make adequate life choices. They practice yoga, they drop out of the karmic meat consumption... but then they reproduce with worthless meat sacrifices that smell bad.
>>23628553Men vs. WomenHow "creative"
>>23629232Fantasy is the video games of literature
>>23628553They haven’t dropped out, they are denied publishing rights by woke publishers.
>>23629710None of this is true
>>23629577Sarah J. Maas isn’t brown and doesn’t have brown characters afaik.
>>23629577I don't know the numbers on Colleen Hoover, but she is doing similarly well and one of her books was recently adapted for the big screen.
>>23628587Pirnasi
>>23629679I love Le Guin but I can't touch modern YA slop either
>>23629995Maas is 100% German but adopted father was a Jew and people blame him for having made her a pervert or say that she's somehow non-White
>>23629491I'm in a heavily female-populated environment and despite my unshaken awareness that those truly responsible for everything are the Jews, I have to admit that white women have been the main enablers of their plan to destroy the worldI finally understand women and they scare me like they never did before. They do what they do but they don't know what they do. They are perfectly capable of living in extreme contradiction with themselves without even perceiving it. This is why they get so offended when a guy argues against their weird values: they don't understand the argument at the most elementary level, despite being otherwise capable of logical thinking. If there's going to be a hyper-totalitarian regime going on in the next few years, women will be at the helm.
>>23629491A lot of school teachers in liberal areas buy books by black authors on mass to force teenagers to read them. A very creepy tranny teacher at a school where I used to be a worker tossed out all the classics and replaced them with books on black transsexuals. The woman (for it was a woman who thought she was a man) was genuinely the scariest creature I ever saw, she would laugh about killing animals in her spare time. Ironically was racist to Jews and Koreans though
>>23628556Everything new is fanfic
>>23630267Interesting sociological fact, women are always the most fanatical members of cults and religious movements. They join in larger numbers, and are the last ones to leave. Women have a lot of great traits but maybe 5-10% of them, max, are capable of male-level rational thinking. I don't mean they're irrational all the time. They just have a kind of emotional, hedonistic, and narcissistic base layer to their consciousness that prevents anything stable from being built on it. You can build a skyscraper on that base, and it can last a woman's whole lifetime, and then suddenly collapse when it's no longer convenient to her. Its having lasted 50 years doesn't mean shit, because suddenly her priorities shifted. Women are a lot like pitbulls in that way. Or horses. Both fine to be around but you always have to keep one eye on them. That's the 90-95% anyway. The remaining 5-10% should basically be given the opportunity to be treated as honorary males. Nothing could be worse than to be in that 5-10% and to be trapped with the rest of the lunatics just because you share the same genitals.
>>23630412I think your anaysis is a bit reductive because it's from a guy's perspective. I thought that way too, but when you say "emotional" or "hedonistic" you're still framing those concepts in the way you see them as a man. Instead women have a truly alien mind. Their very concept of pleasure, pride or envy are radically different than those as experienced by men. They're garbled together, overlapping and contradicting each other and that is completely normal for a woman, whereas it would drive a man insane. All I know about them is that they're an incomprehensible abyss that not even themselves are capable of rationalizing - but there's no need you. You believe you'd need to do that because you're a man, you need to sort things out, but women are agents of Chaos, they thrive in that unfathomable darkness.
>>23629995Still a jewish woman, so diversity hire.
>>23628587Name one good fantasy novel not from tolkien or martin
Honestly, it barely even occurs to me to try reading sci fi or fantasy written after like 1990. It just seems noticeably less interesting after that point. All of the last interest developments in those genres happened in the 80's, and now we're just treading water, farting out so-so imitations of the classics.
>>23630755technology didn't advance in any cool ways so there's no new ideas. Last interesting sci fi book I read was Altered Carbon and that's ancient.
>>23630412Truthnuke
>>23630646eragon
>>23628553>>23628556This person doesn’t read fantasy desu.The Witcher has some of the worst obvious male writer in history. Battles are almost never described, only 1v1s in any detail. Internality and cringey levels of emotional drama and interpersonal micro aggressions are constant. It meets basically all the points described of the “women’s” version of this.The Poppy was very obviously written by a woman but has such an autistic level of military history details it’s almost unbearable.
>>23630052Based and cant spell pilled>>23628565*don't read recently published fiction. Men definitely read.
>>23628556>the fear is making the main hero horny.Wait what? Is that seriously how fantasy goes these days?
>>23630598Coping and seething. I doubt even 10% of her readers know she's Jewish. >>23630111Source?>>23629995Based
>>23628794damn I gotta read that
>>23629482Although people always idealized the past with honorable warfare and glorious death, I have to agree with you we live in the most cynical time in history. Modern male heroic histories only happen in video games set in a dystopic future.
>>23628556lmao this is too real, based
>>23629591Martin doesn't write except on Twitter.
>>23629710Unironic gaslighting.
>>23628794>Huurr, me moid. Me fight! Me keep every female character pregnant!
>>23629710nice try nigger. you're not going to gaslight people here.>>23630107What's a good point to start with her that isn't Earthsea?If there isn't any proper artistic merit or anything to get from a piece of lit, then it at least has to be entertaining. All modern YA slop just stops working after it cycles through the people who hopped onto it. I think the only YA series that've stood up in the past 20-30 years asfaik are maybe Harry Potter, Hunger Games, and possibly Warriors/Redwall or w/e its called. Meanwhile the majority of vintage/classic sci fi/fantasy still remains eternally readable. Asimov's not perfect, but he's still damned interesting and entertaining. Heinlein, Clarke, Bradbury, Tolkein, Lewis, etc.Weren't there a few modern YA/Fantasy/SF writers whining about competition with dead old people?
>>23628794I'm in. Conan doesn't feature enough pregnancy. I want to see DYNASTIES.
>>23628794More like what women want men to do. Projection.
>>23628553They have not, litrpg, progression fantasy and the like is insanely popular amongst big dicked men and the authors get payed via patreon. And chinese, korean and japanese webnovels are wildly popular amongst men as well. It's just mainstream american slop they don't read.
>american male fantasy doesn't appeal to me (im talking about tall, alpha, protector or BS like this)>I don't like books with female protagonists either >japanese fantasy protagonists are the closest that appeal to me, but they're too passive sometimes
>>23631410Try korean, they're the middle between genocidal chinese protags and herbivore japanese protags. The materialism of korean society shines through though and is annoying.
>>23631357litrpg and western progressive fantasy is mostly smut, just instead of being written by a left wing progressive females it's written by a left wing progressive males.Japanese webnovels are sometimes just as bad or worse.
>>23628553>>23628556I think you are generalising too much. Isn't this like comparing old epic fantasy to erotic fanfics for horny women on booktok?The witcher is actually kinda written like the female fantasy example and it's hugely popular with men.
>>23630412>You can build a skyscraper on that base, and it can last a woman's whole lifetime, and then suddenly collapse when it's no longer convenient to her. Its having lasted 50 years doesn't mean shit, because suddenly her priorities shiftedLiterally this. They live for a constant now that has no past or future. They've no understanding of time whatsoever
>>23631655Time is like a prison for women, so they actually resent it lol. They cope by pretending it doesnt exist.
>>23630994She has the most painfully German face and was adopted into a Jewish family. The Jews then used their contacts to get their little blond girl a deal
>>23631184Earthsea is her best stuff I would say but I think the short story collections that they sell sometimes is a good entry point if you want to see if you like her writing styleAnd yeah, pitiful YA romantsy women bitch about Le Guin selling more books than them. It was because she had good prose and an interesting story
I think the last good female writer in the genre is Joanna Harris. Kathryn Volante too but she is a bit of a Martin-tier pervert who likes to feature a rape a book
>>23630961Women definitely read more, older books included. If you are into highbrow literature you are a niche reader, no matter the era. Most men read slop like Patterson or Clancy. Back in the day it was someone like Paul de Kock. Want the highbrow men’s market to grow today? Start supporting those types of writers. If no one reads them no one will publish those types of books and no writers with potential will get the chance to exercise it.
>>23628587Probably something by Diana Jones
>>23628553Male fantasy would be good if their protagonists weren't the author's self insertNot every man wants to be a warmonger murderhobo
>>23631819You must be a female or a homosexual
>>23631819Name one that is not Howard's. Neither Aragorn or Jon Snow can be qualified as murdering randomly or warring for no reason
>>23631878To strengthen your argument, even Robert Howard's characters (assuming that is the Howard you are speaking of), which are warmongering, are rarely murderhobos.Conan and Solomon Kane are often acting in either self defense, or in the defense of others. Often fantasy protags are the self embodiment of an unconquerable protector, or in Conan's case a wandering warrior who finds dangerous villains everywhere he goes. Very rarely did Fantasy leads just kill people to satiate some sick desire from the author, that was mostly left to Science Fiction.In short, at least in the past, fantasy still managed to bring out the male author's ideal. His best self, to project onto his hero. But that was in a time of men, no matter how degenerate or wrapped up in philosophical dogmas they were, actually had a drop of testosterone in their body. Today male authors perhaps are less likely to imagine honorable combat face to face, preferring to scheming and torture to make up for how useless they feel in real life.
>>23631789Well, I got her stuff popping up in some of my anthologies somewhere. I'll give her a shot. Speaking of female SF/F writers, man. Leigh Brackett and C.L. Moore and Andre Norton don't get talked about enough these days. You'd think all the reddit soys would be all over Brackett as the woman that had quite a lot to do with early star wars and writing planetary romance genre with her proto-Han Solo or "Amazons". Or C.L. Moore's '30s era female sword and sorcery hero (Jirel) or her "Han Solo"-ish character (Northwest Smith). Or just Andre Norton being insanely prolific and whipping up the first DnD novels. I think Norton's work's falling in public domain now. I picked up a Time Trader's Baen Omnibus from like 2002 recently, only to find out that Time Traders is in the public domain. . . All I'm saying is, it'd just take a halfway decent push to get them all pushed as classic SF/F women that pioneered the genre and wrote stuff that's held up better than YA slop. I'd love to see more people get into this stuff. Fuck that makes me miss the Paizo Planet Story TPB series from '09-'11 that just reprinted SF/F genre fiction from across the 20th century with authors as widespread as Moorcock but as almost-forgotten as Otis Adelbert Kline. They put out a bunch of Brackett and Henry Kuttner stories (aka CL Moore's husband that she was a writing team with and it's said they were inseparable in their work. Which is why it's tricky to tell the distinction. Well, Brackett also married a sci-fi heavyweight of the '30s in Edmond Hamilton, better known for the pulp hero Captain Future. )You know another chick that's had a surprisingly enjoyable writing style from a vintage era? James Tiptree Jr. (I don't remember her real name).
>>23631493I think the whole "I'm going to erase your whole extended family" thing is Chad as fuckIn the end you can only fuck someone over to the limits his physical person allows, so the best and most direct way to punish him harder is to move vertically through time and mess with the other generations. It's awesome. It's even better if the rest of the family is all innocent people because it puts even more blame on the person who gets punished, like he brought this calamity upon his bloodline. Based.
I rarely read novels but isn't it a known fact that publishing industry avoids publishing males?There was this trio of I believe pulp crime novel writers, iirc all Spaniards, all men, writing under female pseudonym(s) for years since they realised exactly that this is the case. Maybe one of you can tell who that was.
>>23632966Yeah, if you're a man you're better off self publishing. It's actually a good thing since you don't have to care about all the political correctness and include brown wheelchair people as heroes in your bulgarian fantasy book other insane american shit that makes for boring milquetoast stories.
>>23630994so what?
>>23632966>pulp crime novel writers, iirc all Spaniards, all men, writing under female pseudonymCarmen Mola>Mola’s books, translated into eleven languages, had become so popular, thereby accumulating many accolades. In 2020, a branch of Spain’s Women’s Institute listed her book, The Girl – part of a trilogy – as a must-read book by a woman that “help us understand the reality and the experiences of women.”
>23628553 (OP)>23628556Why should battles last longer than one chapter long?Tyrion fights in battle of Green Fork and it only lasts a third of the chapter
