Ἐς Πάλλαδ' Ἀθηναίην>Fyrri þráðrinn:>>23749146>Bǿkr á vǫlsku/grekisku:https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mál frá Asíu ok Afríku:https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Classical languages are welcome.
>>23788485I just always got this weird feeling reading Classical Chinese poetry in translation, like I was basically reading loose paraphrase. I was worried that the essential character and logic of the poems wasn't surviving translation. This isn't monolingual-itis by the way--I'm bilingual by birth and have read in other languages too; I know what it means to translate. But everything I knew about Chinese made me worry I wasn't really getting it: e.g. characters aren't really equivalent to syllables, so even the idea of a Haiku in syllables is pretty strange. Classical Chinese poetry is often in a highly restricted form which depends on tone and assonance (iirc) and is basically untranslatable into anything similar in English. Not to mention a grammar and literary tradition completely foreign to mine.A Little Primer of Tu Fu essentially confirmed all my suspicions. It gives glosses and explanations character-by-character, making you do the work of "translating." My conclusion is that Chinese is a language which sits very different in the mind, and that nothing in any of the translations I'd read had come even close to emulating the experience of reading the originals--not in terms of enjoyment or quality or goodness, but in terms of capturing the experience or preserving the logic.So I think unless it's a really scholarly edition, I'm not going to enjoy reading Tang poetry in translation in the same way.
>>23788561Ah, I suspected something like that. I asked because I get a similar alien 'world feeling' reading how characters describe phenomena as opposed to how Indo-European alphabets do. but it's definitely more than just a difference in writing systems. I suspect pic related has something to do with it. For the record Red Pine's translations have served me well, so I don't entirely feel like I'm missing out, but I don't think it's even possible in translation to capture the altered feeling of time and objects in space in the language. I'm just shooting shit here but it lends credence to Sapir Whorf in my mind, since I don't see how something like the Dao could have come out of an IE mental perception.
>Learn a Romance Language?>Have a life filled with romance>Learn a Dead Language?>Have a life filled with death
>>23788769>Learn Germanic language>Live a sick life
>>23788769>Learn Hellenic language
>>23788769>Learn Chinese
>>23788488What are the standard textbooks for learning Old Norse?
Biggus Dickus
I have a question, bros.I wanna say "Therion docet" which means "[the] beast teaches". But beast is in greek and I wonder if in greek they change the word when it is the subject.
>>23788845if I get what you mean, in this case no because therion is neuter and like in Latin neuter nouns have identical accusatives and nominatives, corresponding to second declension Latin -um
>>23788857Oke thanks.
What are some easy Greek works for high volume reading? The equivalent of a Eutropius or Nepos.
>>23788890XenophonNew Testament
>>23788836>here lives happinessIs that what this says? Is it from a brothel?
>>23788895>New TestamentHard fucking pass.
>>23788899happiness/prosperity/successIt's actually from a bakery.
>>23788909NT is some of the easiest ancient greek to read because it was purposefully written to be easy to understand by many people
>>23788920I've always found it deeply curious why the ancients inscribed and erected dicks everywhere. Even other cultures, not just Greeks and Romans. We are probably the weird ones for not getting it.
>>23788947We erect no less phallic structures
>>23788947the sex/sin equivalence hadn't been ingrained
>>23788955Don't want to go into the psychology of it but yeah absolutely. We just lie about it for some reason that I find anthropologically interesting.>>23788978Sexual fidelity at least was seen as a virtue, if not chastity. I think it goes deeper than that though.
>>23788909If you can't read the NT, you can't read GreekYou're the one asking for easy works, try not to tip your fedora
>>23788947Symbols to ward off evil/bring in prosperity and luck/fortune. Much like evil eye.
>>23788947A healthy, erect, throbbing cock is an excellent symbol of fertility and prosperity
>>23788981chastity was definitely seen as a virtue by platonists. on this there is a good article called "the status of sexuality in neoplatonism"
I love having to sell my kidneys for critical editions of anything. For that matter, it's hard enough to even find cheap copies of stuff in the original language. I am on the verge of just copying the text from Perseus and doing a print on demand thing.
>>23788488can we get the greek op back? especially if the theme of the edition is hellenic.
>>23788890Aristophanes, Apollodorus' Library, Septuagint, Diodorus Siculus, high quality graded readers like the (Italian) Athenaze, the Reading Greek textbook, A Greek Boy at Home and Thrasymachus>Septuagint? Hard pass.Don't care, asshole. The point isn't to agree with what you are reading.
>>23788909reddit moment
>>23788992It was me. I like the NT but already read a great deal of it in Latin (and English several times over the years). Probably will go for some of >>23789685 's suggestions (thanks anon) for variety. Especially Aristophanes if he's easy. I love Roman comedy so it will be nice to see what the Greeks offer.
>>23789772What? If you've read it in two languages already and you're looking for high volume then it's the perfect thing to read.
>>23789784It's a motivation thing mainly. I'm more excited to read things I haven't read yet, so I'll spend more time on it.
>>23788488Reciting The Iliadhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzal-36eIoY
>>23784538I'd be impressed by it...
>>23785199It seems only fair with the way some Western media uses Eastern religious symbolism (see e.g. Temple of Doom)
>>23789839good for him but he's kinda all over the place with the pronunciation and the meter especially
>>23785201No. That's not how it works.
>>23785309>To this neutered people, so far removed from their cultural rootsSays the guy who probably doesn't even worship the gods of his ancestors.
>>23785911>Spoken slowly in a posh British accentWhy a posh British accent? The closest thing today to how English would have sounded in his time would be something like Appalachian or West Country. Received Pronunciation is largely something that was innovated by the English elite to distinguish themselves from social climbers.
>>23786335I'm on a server about Indo-European linguistics if you're interested.
>>23786637Anon, I don't know how to explain to you that other people who aren't practitioners of your religion have no reason to care about its prohibitions.
>>23788561>characters aren't really equivalent to syllablesHow so? Are you talking about Old Chinese sesquisyllables?>>23788601Writing systems are not languages. You can perfectly well write the Chinese languages in an alphabet (and indeed the Dungans do) and they'd still be Chinese, and conversely you could perfectly well write English in something like Yingzi and it would still be English.https://zompist.com/yingzi/yingzi.htm
Are you guys going to teach your children latin and greek from a young age? On one hand I’m worried that if I force them to learn those languages they will end up hating it, on the other hand I know that if I don’t educate them from a young age they will regret it in the future just like I despise my parents for not giving me a classical education when I was young. What would you do in this situation?
>>23790148Don't sit down and teach it to them out of a book, just speak it at home when they're growing up. (To work optimally this tactic requires your partner to also speak Latin.)
>>23789922Because the most authentic accents are not the most comprehensible to the average person. You can watch reconstructed accent performances on youtube--they're not so easy to understand (e.g. blood and brood rhyme). People are primed to expect "higher register" from RP, it's a mental cue.
>>23790342I feel like good delivery is a lot of it, honestly.
Convince me that the Greeks are better than the Sumerians, the Indians and the Chinese (the builders of civilization).
>>23790148I honestly wouldn't force my hypothetical kids to be classically educated polyglots. They would speak the language of my hypothetical wife, English and another useful one like French or German
>>23788955What up, fellow Michigan-anon!
>>23789839>alje etheeka dropped it here>>23790148I'm going to teach them Latin just from speaking and reading to them. Especially since I'm going to raise them Catholic so I want them to be able to read the Vulgate at least. I'll teach them Greek if they want to learn it but won't force them. If they know Latin well enough learning Greek when they're older won't be too hard anyway.
>>23790761You will never find a traditional catholic wife in this day and age.
>>23790773Stranger things have happened
>>23790773This was probably more true in 2010 than it is nowadays
>quod antea tacuerat proponithe says the thing he had concealed>quid antea tacuisset proponithe says what he had concealed Correct?
Ancient Greece experts, is Assassin’s Creed Odyssey an accurate depiction of Ancient Greece world and society at its peak?
>>23789438>sell my kidneysOCT's are available for $10-30 used. If that is 'selling your kidney' you are either dirt poor or a penny pincher.I know it physically pains you to release a single shekel but try not to kvetch too much
>>23791283and once all those old used ones are gone?? enjoy your print on demand glued $60 modern OCTs
>>23789438We need good cheap editions like the editio minor Teubners they printed up til the mid 20th century, or Ad Usum Delphini editions again.
>>23791283You dropped your good goy button, golem.
>>23791283I wish I could find one for $10 used, or used OCTs in general. I got Tibullus for $15 which wasn't bad.
>>23791340abebooks, college town bookstores, ebay>>23791314Despite what you may think Classics are dying and those interested in them are dying as well. Professors kick the bucket and their libraries get donated/sold, students sell their books after graduation, randoms get into it for a bit then lose interest, etc. The end result is various Classics texts streaming into the second-hand market at an ever-increasing pace. >>23789438>cheap copies of stuff in the original languageReclamI live in Tokyo and have an abundant steady supply of Classics texts all around me. My personal library contains close to 60 OCT's, less than 5 bought new and one of which was a mistake. If I can find books here in an area where Classics in general is essentially unheard of and foreign used books are expensive you can certainly find them wherever you live. Even when I lived in the US I didn't have trouble with expensive used books - just scour used bookstores and talk with owners. A $30 OCT is going to be more useful and take longer to finish than 6 $5 paperbacks.
>>23790148>not having childrenif I was I would teach them spanish as it is the future lingua franca of the united states.
>>23791314I'll also point out that while modern OCT's are not of the same quality as in the past they are far from awful, better than most publishers put out. Teubners are shockingly bad for the price - newer and older ones have continual issues with the spine and inner hinge. That said I avoid buying new unless there are no other options and I don't want to wait for cheap used editions to turn up, e.g. Cicero: Academica, though not planning on buying that anytime soon.>print on demand>OxfordI would take that in a heartbeat over all those crappy Indian and Chinese POD scam pub houses that have proliferated the market.
>>23789937liar, to hell with you!
>>23791283>OCT's are availableoct =?
>>23791513Oxford Classical Texts. Critical editions of Greek and Latin authors from antiquity. Teubner is their main rival. Those two are both known for excellent critical apparatus criticus - footnotes showing variations of a text in the manuscript tradition. Bude does the same with a facing French translation but I do not recommend Bude to non-native French speakers for several reasons.If you don't care so much about critical editions Loeb and Reclam both print affordable Classics texts, the former with facing English Translation, the latter with German. Artemis in Switzerland and a handful of German houses print bilingual editions.There are many other publishers, usually university, who print some Classical works and commentaries. Bristol, Cambridge, Dover, Oklahoma, Princeton, the list goes on.
>>23791540Thanks!
What are the best “ancient fiction books”. I’ll start by listing the famous ones:OdysseyIliadBeowulfNibelungenliedLe Morte DarthurCanterbury TalesAeneidGilgameshGenjiMahabharata
>>23788561>I just always got this weird feeling reading Classical Chinese poetry in translation, like I was basically reading loose paraphrasePeople pursuing Language degrees are hardly ever the same people composing literature to any notable level, and rendering poetry well demands sound instincts and real talent. Haiku, for example-- if translators allowed themselves to additional room for imagistic maneuver with Titles as master signifiers, the standard and consistency of their translation across the board would rise. Ideograms with express visual associations to word-play with from something like Chinese further confounds the issue.
>>23791595Egils sagaNjáls sagaLaxdǿla sagaGrettis saga
I work full time and now I've started school again. I'm finding it hard to make time for Greek. What would you guys rec as a minimalist way of making progress for someone with very little free time?
>>23791709I don't think it's possible to make noticeable progress in your situationYou should be focusing on maintaining your current level by re-reading texts you've read already, that's all you can do
>>2379170920 minutes a day of focused reading, more if you can but 20 min minimum. Will be slow but better than nothing>>23791714demoralizing faggot who reads neither Latin nor Greek. Let me guess - still on your first textbook?
>>23791510...what does this have to do with that?
>>23791595>>23791618>ancient>lists medieval works
>>23791208the first yes
>>23792244He put it in quotation marks which indicates that he's unsure about the exact classification of what he's asking for and yet at the moment of writing his post it was the best term he could think ofAnyway I just wanted to recommend sagas
>>23791714Opinion disregarded on account of your weak mind.>>23791721That's the spirit!
>>23791709I largely dropped Greek due to focusing on Latin so I just read like 5 pages of the Bible each day. Maybe do something similar. Also take advantage of the extant audiobooks.
>>23791709Might be nice to read short poems like Catullus
>>23788601Stupid text. “Is so” and “is not” are not proper English, and to be does not establish existence in English, “there is” is a formula taken from French c’est, apart from context where people say “God i.s” but it is not everyday idiomatic text.
>>23792521you are a retard talking about something he has no clue ofanon's pic has been a focal point in philology for centuries
>>23792521no one cares about your pedantry, pseud
>>23792521Pretentious and wrong. "It is so" is perfectly proper English, and in it 'be' clearly conveys existence and/or truth. 'be' has conveyed existence since Old English (google "gnomic present") and the construction "there is" has nothing to do with c'est. In use by c. 1000:>Nu þǣr ys an to lafe; gif þære Aprili. - Byrhtferth's Manual
>>23791959Why that's the state religion (gay sex) and its monuments.
>>23792504Also this but since he's doing Greek I'd recommend the Anthology. There are some real gems in there. Just open it up to a random page.
>>23792260Why not the second? Is it not an indirect question?
>>23792863mmh not sure proponit would have as object an indirect question like that with the meaning in english he wrote, in any case though, following consecutio temporum here would require a perfect subjunctive not a pluperfect since the verb in the main clause is in the present(proponit); if it was proposuit then the pluperfect would be appropriate
>>23792874But the original has proponit (present) + tacuerat (pluperfect)
>>23793093true but the consecutio temporum loses the sort of edifice of time that you have in the indicative mood, since imperfect and pluperfect basically take the role of the present and perfect subjunctive in the case of a main clause verb in the past(whatever it is i.e imperfect, perfect, pluperfect)the basic scheme is:main clause verb: present/future => subjunctive clause contemporary to main clause => present subjunctivemain clause verb: present/future => subjunctive clause anterior to main clause => perfect subjunctivemain clause verb: past(imperfect, perfect, etc...) => subjunctive clause contemporary to main clause => imperfect subjunctivemain clause verb: past(imperfect, perfect, etc...) => subjunctive clause anterior to main clause => pluperfect subjunctive
Does anyone know of a good resource to learn Syriac, both spoken and written? Not the liturgical Aramaic but the Syriac dialect
I just discovered Akkadian was written exactly as how Old Japanese is. Pretty mind-blowing realization. I fucking heart ancient langugaes!!
>>23793125It pisses me off to no fucking end that the better books are all A) more expensive than they should be and B) use serta instead of estrangela as it's primary script. Honestly you're better off using pdfs by 19th-early 20th century German philologists than deciphering the nonsensically dense rule patterns or serta without estrangela post-modern texts. Serta is nice, don't get me wrong, but the coolest texts are all in estrangela. And don't get me started on the three diacritical systems...
>>23792521U sound annoying, ropemaxx
>>23793157That's impossible.
>>23793363>>23793157https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=PfYYraMgiBA
Did anyone else hate this faggot when reading through LLPSI?
I'm addicted to "dunking on academic classicists" type articles like that one that btfos Mary Beard for admitting she barely knows Latin. Does anyone have more?
>>23793385this man is r*ddit personified
>>23793443>Raised Jew but converted to atheism as a teenager>Career>Philology>Board gameslmfao assyriabros is this really the best we have?
LLPSI's theory of instruction really goes to shit when you reach the subjunctive chapters.
>>23793443kek. did not expect this to be so accurate>>23793157>>23793385just watched the video, but it is about the Behistun inscription and doesn't include any information about Old Japanese. on what basis are you connecting this to Akkadian?
>>23793653I'm just going to go out on a limb and say you're not using LLPSI right.
>>23793701I read each chapter as is before I use the official companion, an additional companion, and Wheelock's as supplements. The subjunctive chapters are the first that can't sufficiently explain grammatical concepts using already taught vocab + context clues.
Ranae vivere ne sinitote.Quicumque rem habuerit cum rana, capitale esto.
>>23791374Man I wish I was able to get hauls that good in used book stores. At least in the Midwest, even in the city I could only find two volumes in a store. I am actually seething. I am moving to Chicagoland soon so maybe I'll have better luck there, supposing I don't get shot.
>>23791374also I did not realize abebooks prices were as low as they were, thanks anon.
>>23788488best beginner book to start translating in latin?
>>23794168>MidwestUniversity towns with good Classics programs. I know U Oklahoma has a decent program and a press. Look up a few others in the general vicinity. Maybe Michigan, Illinois, etc.
>>23793871I think there's a brain difference issue. I struggle with Pimsleur and Michael whatever his name is. And also with Rosetta Stone. The sort of "you'll catch on" idea doesn't work for me. Maybe if I had a live teacher it would, but I kind of doubt it.That doesn't make the materials worthless, however.
>>23794443Whatever you do, DO NOT get a degree in anything fruity like that. Hard no. autodidact the fruit.
>when you come across an extract that you read in your textbook whilst tackling the real text and manage to fluently read it despite it taking you a long time beforeFeels great Granted I had studied all of the vocabulary in my anki deck but stillI want to say I read the entire chapter in less time than it took me to read the extract originally but that's probably not true since the entire chapter was long, it was certainly far less tiring thoughI feel refreshed and not exhausted
Goddamn I'm having so much fun with Classical ChineseI wish I had started learning it earlier
>>23794654>>23794443To clarify, my post is not about getting a degree but where to find used bookstores with decent selections of Classics in the MidwestI actually have a BA in Classics and it isn't useful but i knew that going in and it has not affected my career.
what's the best commentary on Parmenides' poem you know?
εις κώλον αυθεντικού πόστερ καυλίον εμέ βόυλομαι βάλειν
>>23794211Tired meme by now but still true - don’t learn to translate. Start with llpsi
>>23794168There’s one Chiraq store I know of with a great selection but I won’t tell you what it’s called. Just look around.
British used bookstores mog American ones so hard it’s not even funny when it comes to classics. I’ve picked up tons of old OCTs there. And I bet Germany gigamogs Britain
>>23795786Germany had the absolute best selection of classics. Heidelberg in particular had a shop near the river that had a basement full of classical texts. Was actually shocked to see so many in one place - actual stacks on the floor around full bookshelves
>>23795796old world philologists have us beat so hard. I wish our educational system wa even half as good.
https://homer.library.northwestern.edu/html/application.htmlThis is freaking based ngl
What word would you use for a small ball, like a baseball? Would it be pila(-ae)?
Couple questions for the classical Chinese anons. Are you guys Chinese or do you have Chinese background? And if not, what got you interested?I have been attached to classics at various universities over the last several years, and generally what people are interested in there tends to reflect what I see here: mainly Greek/Latin, sometimes old Germanic languages, sometimes Bronze Age stuff, etc. But I haven't yet met anyone in a classics department also interested in classical Chinese despite the fact that it seems popular in this general (and despite knowing a few very talented Latinists IRL who are originally from China). So what gives? Is it because you all are posting from overseas and I don't see you IRL because I'm American? Or because you are all in Chinese departments?Based on what I understand about the popularity of Greek/Latin in China (it's growing), the increasing influence of that country in general, and the number of people in this thread interested in Chinese classics, I feel like the time is ripe for there to be more overlap between the two domains then there seems to be professionally. Am I totally wrong on this?
>>23796031pilula or any other -ulus/-ula diminutive for other words like sphaera, globus, etc... would probably be alright
>>23796041Ty those sound good
>>23788909I'm learning Attic Greek at the moment. Is there a substantial enough difference between classical and koine Greek that would require me to learn more or can I go directly into the new Testament?
>>23796079Just go right in and you’ll pick up the few differences by reading
>>23796034>the popularity of Greek/Latin in China (it's growing),White guy SHOCKS Chinese by fluently reciting Vergil in Latin
>>23796079Attic to Koine is mostly harmless, you'll encounter few weird prepositional usages maybe and less optatives as well as simplified verb forms e.g thematic versions of athematic Attic ones, biggest difficulty could be the lexicon, Plutarch for example
>>23796091This but unironically. I heard from someone I met earlier this year that their department been trying to send one of their grad students over there to teach but couldn't find anyone willing even though there was funding. There was another dude who gave a lecture in Beijing and said he saw passion and excitement among the students there that he doesn't see anymore in the States. I think there's a lot of potential.
>>23796107Quot Sinicae Latinam Graecamque discere petunt?
>>23796118I only have my personal impressions, and no doubt it is not an enormous number, but out of a country of a billion people there are bound to be many.
>vgh we need to retvrn to the time honoured tradition of using active Latin...
>>23791709I once found a "greek grammar in 100 lessons of parallel sentences" audio thing, you could listen to it while commuting.
>>23792706Intentionally defacing a pride flag is wrong not because it's disrespectful to any religion but because it's disrespectful to gay people. You can choose your religion, you can't choose whether you're gay.
>>23793684Probably the way that the same glyph could be used to stand for either a Sumerian word/morpheme, or an Akkadian word/morpheme of the same sound, or an Akkadian word/morpheme of the same meaning. That's basically a description of Old Japanese orthography, if you substitute "Japanese" for "Akkadian" and "Chinese" for "Sumerian".
>>23796034>Are you guys Chinese or do you have Chinese background?Nope, Irish-American.>And if not, what got you interested?Well, first I had learned Japanese (for weeb reasons), and then I became interested in kanbun.
>>23796846You can choose your lifestyle. I don't have any problem with someone being gay, but if he is the sort of person who goes to rallies, commits degeneracy, and demands I use his pronouns (the sort of person who identifies with those flags), he has willfully chosen the lifestyle, and there's nothing wrong with condemning it.
>>23796519Japanese in Arabic sounds curious.
>>23796859So basically you don't care if someone's gay as long as they never show it in any way? (And gay and trans are different things.)
>>23796846Not that anon; but even if people were born gay it wouldn't warrant pride. If someone were born with extreme anger issues, nobody would want them to be proud of it.People shouldn't hate, but to promote ills of society is bad.
>>23796901Gay people aren't harming anyone just by being gay, though.
>>23796908There are all sorts of ways I could respond to that statement, but considering that this is clg and not pol, I think it's better that this discussion just stop so that it doesn't continue to shit up the thread with off-topic garbage.
I hate this shit so much. If I want to study beyond the most basic of basics like the definite article, I have to "increase my workload" down the line. How about you let me study whenever the fuck I want? Let me skip useless baby cards while you're at it.
>>23797039Bro it's just reminding you that if you start more cards now you will need to review more later because of how spaced repetition works. If you want to skip the useless baby cards you can just delete them from the deck.
>>23796034I'm half Chinese but I never managed to learn the languageI studied Japanese in High School but didn't really care about it and never got anywhere with it but I did like KanjiOver the past few years I started studying language in earnest and I started to experience a strong yearning to learn something Chinese and recently Classical Chinese leapt out at me as a viable option Firstly studying Old Norse has made me become interested in poetry which has increased the appeal of the CC corpus Secondly I found online discussions which stated that you didn't need to know written Chinese to start with Classical ChineseIn the past it seemed the consensus was that you needed to know written Chinese to get anywhere with the language, IMO this could be a big factor in the lack of popularity with Classical ChinesePerhaps with the release of books like Kroll's dictionary and newer textbooks Classical Chinese will become popular
>>23797118That's like saying you need to know French to learn Latin.
>>23797163From what I understand universities have requirements that you study 2 years of Mandarin before you can do Classical Chinese coursesAlso one argument would be that once you've moved past the intermediate stage, the lack of resources in English will become an issue and impede your long term development
>>23797197I think that's stupid. You might find this interesting:https://web.archive.org/web/20190731185954/http://www.umass.edu/wsp/resources/classical/primer/front/satire.html
So, who was correct?
>>23788488>freshman theyfab asks what the gender neutral pronoun is in Attic GreekI am completely baffled and fascinated at the course of events necessary to produce this question. like how do you even get to a university level course thinking like this?
>>23790148literally just the culture be part of your lives and they'll beg to learn the language
>>23793157wait till you learn about PIE
>>23796838link?
>>23797470>theyfab???
>>23797496https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Theyfab
>>23797511this is retarded.
>>23796846>you can't choose whether you're gaythis is a cope. there is no science behind "the gay gene", but there's a mountain of anecdotal evidence from gays and trannies who flip-flopped because they were peer pressured into lgbt
>>23797039Why don't you take an hour to learn how to use the software properly before complaining about it?
>>23796082>>23796098Thanks! :))
>>23797496Remarkable. You saw a word you didn't know, and your instinct was to reply and ask what meant instead of googling it. I see people do this all the time and I'm hoping you can explain it to me. What made you do this? Are you just bad at google? Do you dislike the format or style of dictionary definitions? Are you operating on a text-based browser that wouldn't support a website like Wiktionary, meaning that you had no choice but to ask an anon for help? Or perhaps you don't believe in tabs? Did you do this because you think you're helping others, reasoning that if you didn't know it, others probably didn't? or was it more personal for you, the public good never entering your thoughts? Generally, what went through your mind when you posted this? And what led up to it? Did you think about it before doing it, or was it just the spur of the moment? How long did you contemplate the unknown word before giving up? Do you do this often? Did you copy-paste the word that you didn't know, or did you type it out, and, if you copy-pasted it, why didn't you copy paste it into your search bar? Do you just enjoy captchas? or, is just the opposite the case: you bought a pass because you hate captchas, and this is you exercising your freedom to post unconstrained? Help me to understand anon.
>it isn't a copypasta
>>23797425Well I'll find out for myself how stupid it is
>>23797470There's no way that this happened. If it did, good on you anon for not immediately turning into a roflcopter.
Anyone know anything about Irish here?I assumed all the major texts were written in Old Irish but it seems that maybe they were written in Middle Irish?Also why is Early Middle Irish called 'classical Irish' when it seems nothing of note was written in it?
>>23797612of our class of 12, a full fourth are trans. undergrad classics at a Midwest state University. gender studies class is even worse because they are *all* trans and Jewish, not even memeing
I started learning the Greek alphabet. I'm gonna make it
>>23796034Classical Chinese is in the Sinology/Eastern Languages department. It is not Classics and should not be. /clg/ throws everything in a pot because the interest in these particular niche subjects is low on 4chan. That and CC threads die on their own. CC and Latin/Greek have totally separate and isolated histories. There is no overlap. You could spend a lifetime fruitfully studying CC without ever encountering a Greek text and vice versa. Other than both being dead languages that wee widespread at one point and have influenced subsequent languages they have nothing in common. Crowding them into the same department in universities would be disastrous for both and benefit neither due to the way modern academia is structured.
>>23796875yes, back in the closet faggot
>>23797725Yeah this is my experienceIn the past it was different but these days classic departments are dying a slow death whereas Chinese departments get a lot of funding from Chinese people so there's far more energy and resources in themYou just aren't going to find people studying Classical Chinese in a typical classics department in the West
>>23797748my department just houses all the ancient languages, Sumerian, Sanskrit, Akkadian, Hebrew, Latin, Greek, think they even have medieval Amharic now
>>23797800That's awesomeSounds like your department is quite healthy?
>>23796846Homosexuality is anti-Christian, and a disaffirmation of Christianity. The regime has established various mechanisms which are violations of the right to freedom of Religion, which does not mean where you go to church, but it means Christian prevention of public vice, and its general offer.
>>23796908gays harm Christians, because they entice to homosexuality by visibility, and other sorts of things like that. The same is true of immodest women.This is our right, we have the right to FREE EXERCISE of Religion, which means avoiding sin and temptation, and being afforded the opportunity to aid the needy brethren.
Lesson 9 of Norden文章 。德之見乎外者 。威儀文辭皆是也I'm a but confused by thisI get the first part but is the second part sayingThis (文章) is all august bearing eloquent words?Basically he's telling us that the phrase 文章, that Confucius employed here and which he just defined, is an example of impressive and eloquent words?I'm assuming that 皆 as an adverb is working with 也 but I'm confused how this affects the meaning of the sentence because to my mind 皆 is kind of like 'just' but maybe he means that every word in the expression 文章 is 威儀文辭?
>>23797858>>23797869How about we respect both gays and Christians and stop shitting up the thread with off-topic drivel?
>>23797748It's a very fruitful, if often overlooked comparative realm. Francois Jullien is the only one I can think of that endeavors to work between Hellenism and Sinology.
>>23788890Sorry, could you say which works are good for Latin high volume reading by Eutropius and Nepos? I've just started Latin and i feel like this way of learning might be better for me than just reading a textbook.
>>23797445the determinant seems the οὐ μέντοι which, being in parentheses in the Greek suggests me from what I also experienced reading other texts, that it is perhaps something in doubt from primary sources, so the right translation would seem more fitting, albeit the one in the middle apart from the doubt on the οὐ μέντοι could be fitting too, especially the way he translated it in context with what the author is saying, idk honestly
>>23793419Sorry, don't have any articles in English. Can you post the one about Mary Beard?
>>23788947Some modern cultures still practice this
>>23797481HO YOU, YA PIE!
>>23797478How do you do that?>>23797481What's PIE have to do with it? It wasn't written at all, and is related to neither of those languages.
>>23798633Eutropius BreviarumNepos De Viris IllustribusCaesar De Bello GallicoVulgateHave seen Isodorus and Augustine suggested as well.
>>23797540I didn't say there was a single gene or something. But digit ratio (men have on average a higher ratio of ring finger to index finger length than women, gay men and lesbians are more likely to have a digit ratio closer to that of the opposite sex) alone is enough proof that there's at least some biological factor.
>>23797725>CC and Latin/Greek have totally separate and isolated histories. There is no overlap.Well, there is since the ~16th or 17th century when Europeans first got into significant contact with China, and before that there's at least common points of interaction (i.e. both had contact with the Middle East and with India).
>>23797730Would you like to be forced to deny part of yourself and live a life of shame and hiding? Whatever happened to the golden rule?>>23797858>>23797869Freedom of religion does not include the right to control the actions of those who do not follow your religion. That's the opposite of freedom of religion.
>>23797943I would read it to mean that 威儀 and 文辭 are both instances of what Confucius meant by 文章. Literally, "威儀 [and] 文辭 are all this".
>>23799238Go get monkeypox and try not to pass it to childrenYou should live a life of shame because you are shameful
>>23799238hey faggot could you not make yet another thread all about your sexual urges and proclivities?
>>23799238every one of your posts in this thread is you coping. i'm sorry you were molested as a toddler but take it to /lgbt/
>>23799247>>23799265>>23799275Please fuck back off to /pol/.
>>23799321I'm telling the gay to fuck off actually, I'm here to discuss classical languages
>>23797487https://old.reddit.com/r/AncientGreek/comments/120p041/audio_practice_for_all_lessons_from_kendricks/
>>23799238>Freedom of religion does not include the right to control the actions of those who do not follow your religion. That's the opposite of freedom of religion.Wrong! "Religion" has a definition! The definition that's common today was then not even tertiary.So, whatever was considered sin - or incitement to it - is the right of the true ones of the Constitution to be free from in the course of ordinary life (ie all legitimate and necessary functions, ranging from work, play, school, restaurants, shops).
>>23799524So anyway, since the Founders were Christians, they meant the first meaning. If they meant another it was their duty to qualify the statement.They meant pan-Christian. They seem to have been allowing for Catholics, to some degree, but certainly the many previously-oppressed, and again today oppressed, Christian minorities.
>>23799524Religion is grossly undefined and soon scientism and the left will be correctly classified as religions to be extinguished from academy.
Just report and hide, his bait isn't even that good
make a goddamn thread for your bickeringor at worst, bicker in your target ancient languages
>>23799531>since the Founders were ChristiansLike half of them were deists, and some, like Thomas Paine, were outright opposed to Christianity.
favourite case?and tense?
>can't look up vocab on a computer because I get distracted so easily>using a physical dictionary takes too much timesigh>>23799596>dative (greek)>past participle (latin)
>>23799549They all clowned on Paine after his Age of Reason.
>>23799616Thomas Jefferson also edited a version of the New Testament that took out the supernatural parts and just focused on Jesus' moral philosophy.
>>23799596Latin dative.I don't have a favorite tense :(
Let's all do Sortes Vergilianae. >>23799596Greek genitive dunno about tense
>>23798633Keep in kind they were still writing for native speakers so they're still difficult relative to textbook Latin. Should read some easier stuff first.
>>23799174Look up Latin As She is SpokeAlso if you have articles in other languages pls post them, I could google translate.
>>23799664What the fuck?
>>23799961What the fuck what
>>23799967How about live and let live?
>>23799613get bilinguals/interlinears
I think the authors of Old Icelandic an Introductory Course really fucked up with the vocabulary they taughtI don't know if this is just a modern languages thing but I'd expect the authors of a textbook to choose the vocabulary they teach based on the frequency that you'll encounter the vocabulary in real texts and probably most important of all, the most common meanings of that vocabulary The textbook has a few short reading sections which the authors wrote themselves and I think those are based on frequency somewhat although it has words like elf, natural spirit, and dwarf which you rarely encounter but afterwards it's just extracts from real texts
>>23800994>textbook gets you into real texts ASAP>waaahhhhhsoda brain
>>23800713Those are annoying because then it gives the whole sentence when I only need to know one word. I only get dopamine when I actually figure it out myself
>>23799596>caseGenitive... ;)>tense...Aorist
Every time I come back to Nepos he gets easier and easier. WAGMI bros
>read new author>understand nothing>"Why am I doing this, I should just quit, I'm a fraud, I'll never be good">blackpill for a few days>come back, slog through memorizing new vocab and learning grammar and style>finally good enough to read text without reference>"I have mastered the Latin language. I am a prodigy. I am God">read new author>understand nothing
There's no value in learning Classical Chinese. At best you can read some poems with autistic rules.
>>23799549Well, Christian though, as in went to church.
>>23799533>Religion is grossly undefinedIt's right here sir:>>23799524>>23801643There are loads of works by Taoists. I'd like to read them, but probably never will be capable.
>>23801643What are the autistic rules?I don't know whether it's worth learning Classical Chinese but it's the only new language I can see myself studying now >>23801759It's still interesting to 'read' them by glossing themReading van Norden's textbook with the glossary has given me new perspectives on Tao te ching and Zhuangzi excerpts
Which is the oldest language I can learn? My plan is to learn them all chronologically(as much as I can, of course) so I want to start with the first one.
>>23802056Akkadian is the oldest one with a considerable corpus.
>>23802075Thank you for the response but what do you mean by considerable? It seems like Sumerian is older but there are recommendations that you should learn Akkadian first so perhaps this is what you meant?
>>23802087In the last /clg/ we had an Assyriologist here, that was cool. Because of the writing system Akkadian and Sumerian are almost never learned separately; at the very least, knowing Sumerian is necessary to be able to read Akkadian. If you're learning chronologically so as to have your knowledge grow cumulatively, Sumerian is useless to you. Akkadian is at least distantly related to other Semitic languages, but Sumerian is an isolate. The Assyriologist anon claimed it took him about 8 years to learn Akkadian/Sumerian/Hittite (undergrad + masters + phd). You be the judge on if its worth it. Also, Ancient Egyptian is only a little younger than Sumerian.
>>23802087>Thank you for the response but what do you mean by considerable?As in, it is the oldest language to have a very large amount of things written in it. It was the main language of administration and high culture in Mesopotamia and parts of Syria for over 1000 years. Ancient Egyptian also does and it emerged earlier, though I'm not sure how large the corpus is.
>>23802056why tf would you want to learn Akkadian/Sumerian/Egyptian?You could learn Greek/Latin/Sanskrit to a high level in the same time and have actual literature to read instead of just Nabagaashman owes Abiesuh 1 pound of iron
>>23803225There are many autists more interested in bus schedules than stories. Besides, there is a certain appeal to learning the world's oldest written languages, especially if you want to sample all human civilization from the beginning.
>Maximus natu, armorum studiosior quàm librorum, tractare a teneris gladios, ordine militari pueros instruere, aures vicinorum repetito tym pani sonitu obtundere, vixque adolescens factus, è fictis certaminibus ad vera procurrens, militiæ nomen suum dedit .Are tractere, instruere, obtundere historical infinitves here?
>>23803506mmh sounds like there's either an implied consuetus or similar or the infinitives go with studiosus implicitly, the meaning is clear but indeed the grammar doesn't click with me either
Just got an Aeschylus OCT. The Lunate sigmas are kinda weird, but at least I'm a little used to iota adscript. I do not expect to understand the choruses at all.
>>23803506Is this Livy? It reads like him. He likes historic infinitives iirc
>>23790499Greeks built on top of Sumerian literature in addition to their own IE heritage. Sumerian/Akkadian stuff is cool but it's more primitive in some ways, Homer hits the sweet spot for me in terms of refinement and perfection, right on the cusp between tradition and individuality. i don't think it's any better than China, India is complicated bc there are some shared roots but they didn't build on top of a developed tradition like the Near Eastern one that Greece used so their epics are afaik a bit more in that primitive vein. but Kalidasa might be able to compete with Homer, I think they lack a little bit in depth (in the sense of number of great authors) compared to Europe and China tho. >>23796034as a nonacademic turbocasual i guess i would say reading (about) Spengler's ideas was what got me into learning about other traditions outside the West. also credit to M.L. West's work about Near Eastern influence on Greece for expanding my horizons in a more concrete way. for China specifically i just always found it interesting that they seemed like such a cultural non-entity in our time, so i wanted to see what was really there behind that unappealing exterior.
>>23801643>At best you can read some poemsalso the best thing you can do with Greek, Latin, English, French, Italian, Sanskrit, Tamil, Persian, Arabic, Old English, Old Norse, Sumerian, Akkadian, Egyptian, Gaelic, Welsh, etc., funny coincidence there i guess.
>>23804090It’s a translation of Robinson Crusoe by Goffaux. He might’ve been basing his style on Livy but I’m too much of a newbie to say one way or the other
>>23804090>historic infinitivesI take back what I said in >>23803606it's weird because I have met his kind of thing in reading but I guess I didn't fully appreciate its grammatical essence and took it for granted
Έτοιμος
>>23804166>Greeks built on top of Sumerian literatureNo.Greeks may have built on something, but whatever it was, it's been lost long ago. Aboakbus us dyab Gwrres maoorh ub, vfb dyp ekpds dyab byab lraks.
>>23804623>no breathingDISGUSTING!
>>23802056>learn them allYou won't. Pick your girl and stick with her.
I just realised word order in Classical Chinese actually matters a lot and that it's actually important to learn about word orderThis is quite different from Old Norse although in the prose it's usually not too complicated/convoluted
>>23801643And philosophy, and history, and fiction, and military manuals, and divination manuals, and religious texts, and maths, and philology, and cookbooks...>>23801774There's several forms of Classical Chinese poetry, some with stricter rules than others, but the most common sort of regulated verse is characterized by rules about tone patterns- the second and sixth syllables in a line have to be the same tone class as each other and different than the fourth, the next line alternates between having the opposite and the same tone classes in those positions as the last one, those second fourth and sixth should be next to at least one other syllable of the same tone class... There's also a lot of reliance on parallelisms.
>>23806184Yeah, in the absence of inflection word order tends to be pretty important, though it can vary somewhat in poetry as long as the meaning remains clear by context.
/clg/ - Chinese and old Norse
There he is anons. /our guy/
Would you guys do a Nepos/Caesar reading group? Assigning sections weekly and just discuss it over the time?
>>23806857we were doing Nepos(maybe the best choice since each biography is relatively compact and self-contained) before the last chimpout scattered anons to the four winds, we aren't too lucky doing this in this generalI've read Caesar and most of Nepos already but I could tag along
>>23805045Well it was indirect, via Akkadian and perhaps other layers of transmission, but the influence was absolutely there. I literally cited the book about this in my post.
>>23806857I’d be up for it, and I’d also prefer Nepos over Caesar.
>>23805052no youhttps://files.catbox.moe/h4yzj1.flac
>>23799596Homeric iterative imperfects
>>23788488should i force myself to do all of the exercises at the end of each llpsi chapter, or can i "get by" just reading the text and grammar sections, given i'm okay with rereading and using other books eventually? i've just started studying latin for reference...
>>23806857keklast reading lasted for all of two weeks and amounted to 2 posters saying things like>did you read it>yeah>ok
Kai Vogelsang study group when?
>>23808584When I did LLPSI I found that I sometimes had an incorrect idea of how the grammar worked and it was only once I answered a question incorrectly in the LLPSI exercises did I realise what the actual principle was
>>23807095History is a cherry picking process with no principle surviving any new discovery.
Are there any editions of Greek literature, particularly Homer, which have rare vocabulary glossed on the page with the minimal amount of grammatical info needed to make sense of the usage?
Guys... Duolingo is leaving me. :(
>>23809801geoffrey steadman
現代古文無用, 而吾尚欲學之。
>>23793125Try surayt.com Probably the best Neo-Aramaic resource in existence. It will teach you the modern vernacular west syriac dialect (which is different from modern vernacular east syriac)Also, usually the liturgical language used in church is what’s called “Syriac”, and modern spoken dialects are called “Neo-Aramaic” or just “Aramaic”
>>23809021noted -- thanks, anon
How long would it take to read to start reading Jonah/Ruth in Hebrew?
I found an interesting youtube channel today that discussed the various modern editions of the vulgate. The guy deleted his channel like 2 hours later.
>>23812127maybe youtube deleted it for being extremist
>>23812154No he hadn't even uploaded in a month. He was fairly inoffensive as well. I'd like to talk to the guy. The channel was Clark Grubb. He also had a video on the translation of a Hebrew word.
>>23809855very pedo icon. Wise to move on.
>>23799531>since the Founders were ChristiansDr. Franklin said in a letter>As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think his system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is like to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his Divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble.This sentiment seems prevelant among most the Founders, which places them strictly in Deism instead of Christianity.
>>23812442One citation hardly counts as a prevalent view. Franklin is know to have been an odd duck.
>>23812442>Dr. Franklinpretentious faggotyou, not him
I can barely listen to reconstructed Latin. I'm sure it sounded great when Cicero was speaking it but moderns just make it sound so ugly. Ecclesiastical is the only Latin pronunciation that sounds nice. Especially when an actual Italian uses it it's pure sexo.
>>23813642Honestly I don't think its so bad by itself but almost every recording I've heard of someone attempting classical pronunciation is horribly overenunciated. People are so desperate to hit the vowel lengths and qualities that they sound like they're speaking Chinese. Wilfried Stroh speaks quite nicely.
the funniest posts on /r/latin are the people who try to skirt around the no english to latin translations rule. They'll post some obviously google translated nonsense and be like "woah guys, what does this totally real latin I just found say?" . Conveniently, they always already have a "guess" on what it means, and are just posting to "double check". What do they hope to accomplish?
>>23813744go back
>>23812573Hello Norm
>>23813718Yeah I just looked him up and his pronunciation sounds nice, very German (good thing). Agree on other reconstructed users, like our favorite bald man’s Roooomaa in Italiiiiaaa est
>>23813718>People are so desperate to hit the vowel lengths and qualities that they sound like they're speaking ChineseExactly right!
>>23813718I still wait for the day a Czech person will post readings of Latin texts in natural speed with correct but natural vowel length distinction, just by reading it as if it was his native Czech.
>>23814304https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6G6cKYCGrI
>>23814316>speaking to Latinists about Latin in Latin>modern word orderHis pronunciation is good and he speaks fairly fluently, but to what purpose? Niche topic to niche experts. Does anyone think he couldn't express himself much better and be understood by several orders of magnitude more people by speaking in English?Newton wrote about physics in Latin, Galileo the stars, Petrarch everything. Modern Latinists speak about Latin. If they want to make spoken Latin a thing, to resurrect and revive it, they should be making great works in Latin, not giving speeches about Latin a fraction of a fraction of people will understand.
Where is the evidence that Latin had vowel length? No Indo-European language has vowel length. Seems like a feature of Afro-Asiatic languages artificially imported by German academics and people just ran with it. There is no evidence that Latins ever observed any vowel length.
>>23814316Thanks, I do remember having heard that guy before. He sounds very natural, though I can't really tell if he distinguishes long vowels; maybe it's a little too subtle for my ears. Though when I listen to Czech, you CAN tell which vowels are long, even when they're speaking fast.Anyway, ideally we could get him (or another Czech) recite some standard text (Caesar/Cicero/Vulgata/...) where one could follow with the text and see which vowels are supposed to be long.>>23814657Historically the usage of Latin went roughly like this, concentrating in smaller and smaller circles:>Everyone speaks/writes Latin (Rome)>Latin is only spoken/written by educated people, but they use it for all kinds of topics (medieval Europe)>Latin is only used by academics and only for topics which explicitly need Latin or have a strong Latin tradition (philology, medicine, law, theology, etc.) Other topics, like the sciences, are increasingly written about in national languages. (early modernity up to 19th century)>Latin is only ever used by the latinists and the catholic church (late 19th to early 20th century)>Literally nobody is using Latin for anything, including even the study of Roman/Latin literature (our world post world war II)I think that, if one wishes to revive Latin, it makes sense, strategically, to try to fill out those circles from within. Let's just say that it is not a good advertisement for "the cause" if even professional latinists refuse to write their articles/books in Latin. Or when you have the celebrity latinist Mary Beard saying things like "hihi don't worry about not knowing Latin, even I mostly read translations hihi".
>>23814919>Literally nobody is using Latin for anything, including even the study of Roman/Latin literature (our world post world war II)I thought this was the case too but the article mentioned by >>23799664 makes a pretty good case it isn't. Turns out Medievalists and Renaissance scholars still publish a sizable amount in Latin.
>>23814657It's good that people fluent in Latin are concentrated in education so they can pass their skills on. Maybe one day we'll have new epics or novels written in Latin.
>>23814889All Latin poetry (with the subatomic exception of some saturnian fragments) is timed based on vowel quantity, not stress. If the Latins didn't care about vowel quantity, they wouldn't have written so much poetry that follows those rules so strictly.
>>23815027pls dont take bait sir
>>23814989>Maybe one day we'll have new epics or novels written in LatinNot in our lifetimes or those of our grandchildrenMost likely neverAccept and move on
>>23815794Blackpillers get the rope. Once tradcaths take over the Church Latin is coming back in a big way
>>23814889>Seems like a feature of Afro-Asiatic languages artificially imported by German academics and people just ran with it.You're probably right.
>>23815027He was talking about stress, not meter. Obviously.
Classical Chinese is a fun language I wonder what it'll be like when I start inputting compared to an inflected language
>>23814889Quintilian made up vowel length as an elaborate troll to fuck with barbarian scholars 2000 years in the future
>>23815794yeah sorry I'm only writing one in Greek. Writing Latin Hexameter is so much harder in comparison.
>>23809006If you organized one, I might join, I could use a review of the basics.
>>23814657I've very frequently heard the same complaint among Esperanto speakers, that people just use it to talk about Esperanto itself.
>>23814889>No Indo-European language has vowel lengthCzech, Serbo-Croatian, Sanskrit (we have very detailed orthoepic descriptions even if we have no tape recordings), Western Lombard, Romani, some dialects of English, Hindustani...
>>23816192anon, please, stop falling for bait.
>>23816201Even if he'll never be convinced, isn't correcting misconceptions and explaining why they're wrong doing a service to any third parties who might be reading?
>>23816229>should I keep feeding the troll?>yes, that will correct his misconceptions
>>23816383I said I know HE'LL never be convinced, but is stating correct information and explaining why it's right and the incorrect statements are wrong not helpful to third parties reading the discussion?
>>23816171Why? Cause you have to keep in mind all the lengths? British schoolboys used to have to write like 10,000 lines of Latin poetry over their school careers so surely if they could do it so can we.
>>23817123No, because Greek is far more suited to dactylic hexameter than Latin. I find it very hard to get nice runs of dactyls in Latin, whose case system favors long syllables so much, especially with final -m.
>>23815842I once read a catholic guide/pamphlet form early 20th century presenting the ecclesiastical pronunciation for "the masses", from the time it was chosen to be the universal pronunciation in the catholic church (until Latin was essentially banned from church a few decades later lol). Anyway, they didn't say anything like "hurr durr le magic city of Vatican is in Italy so everyone has to speak like Italians hurr durr"; rather, they wrote that there is a need for a universal standard in the times of radio etc. and they agreed that Latin is essentially Ciceronian and that ideally we should speak like they did back then, but "well we can't really know how they spoke, and Italy is geographically where Rome was so surely it will be the best approximation" or something along those lines. I'm pretty sure that they should have known better in the 20th century already, but anyway, if the church would to become serious about Latin again, do you think they would accept that the reconstructed pronunciation has become pretty much a universal standard in the academia and try to connect to that? Or would they consider it as "bowing down" to the secular world and rather stick to their Italian pronunciation? Again, they insisted on the importance of Latin as a language of Church because of its continued, unchanging nature etc.
Pedes nudas ejus videns doleo, jacentes super mensulam. Quam ob rem videtur illae verenda exponere mundo?
>>23817465Not him but I think no matter what they would stick with the ecclesiastical pronunciation. Not because not doing so would be bowing to the secular world, but because of aesthetic reasons (it's prettier than the reconstructed pronunciation, which is important for being recited in the liturgy) and unitive reasons (something like the ecclesiastical pronunciation is close to what many saints and Christians of old times used, so it's a fuller expression of the Church's oneness that modern Catholics use the same pronunciation).
>>23817377>No, because Greek is far more suited to dactylic hexameter than Latin.Vergil turned that meter into his bitch
>>23817465if they accept the radio, they an accept the wonderful work done by philologists, it's not like hard vs soft /c/ has liturgical/theological implicationsbut in any case, the ecclesiastical is just a practical thing, it wasn't meant to aim at reconstructing phonology in the first place, even much of the early church fathers wouldn't have sounded ecclesiastical
>>23817465I assume they would stick with ecclesiastical since it's what the Church already uses (Latin use in the Church isn't TOTALLY dead...) and it's what most trads I've seen use. It also just sounds better.
new>>23818076>>23818076
>>23817793try doing that yourself in Latin. You're not Vergil.
