Is this just cheap anti-communist propaganda?
It's broadly anti-populist in general. "Don't dare rising up against your betters or le scary pig will get you!"
>>23811276It's certainly anti-communist. Cheap it hardly is, but that's ultimately a matter of opinion.
Yes. Don't believe the revisionism of people telling you Orwell was actually socialist
>>23811798Orwell is the quiticencial average socialist. The guy who gets drawn in by all the sweet words and sentimentality of left wing rhetoric, is subsaquently horrified of socialism in practice, but continuously comes back for more thinking it will be different this timeHe doesnt or willfully refuses to understand why things happen the way they do and believes he can thus simply will his perfect utopian vision of socialism into existence
>>23811798Well socialism is the limpdick contentless catch all of politics so it's quite easy to conclude you are a some variant of it if you put little thought to the matter.
>>23811276I think the book loses a lot of its initial pop/sensation when a lot of the metaphors have been absorbed into broader culture. I like how they have to put the horse down though, that always makes me smile.
>>23811276Read it and tell me, you fucking retard.
>>23811859id rather be a fucking retard than a retarded virgin
>>23811859>Readshiggy diggy
>>23811824>Orwell is the quiticencial average socialist.He was buddy buddy with the Anarchists in Spain and sold out British leftists to MI6. He was the equivalent of the modern "progressives" who make big bucks speechifying about income equality and war and then smearing every person who wants to do something about it as Russian/Chinese agents or antisemitic.
>>23811276Not really. It's a good book that makes you think. You don't have to agree with its implications (and everyone will disagree on what those might be), but I think it's a fun and interesting book.
>>23811276It's anti Stalin propaganda. Orwell was felating Trotsky before the big meanie pig ruined everything.
>>23811276It's funny how there are leftists nowadays who say things that could be quoted verbatim from this book.>“All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.”
>>23811276No, it's incredibly poignant and shows how fucked up Stalin was.
>>23812263t. not even russian, not even slav
>>23811276Orwell and Rand showed the horrors of collectivism taken too far better than any pair in history
>>23812173You think that's scary? In the totalitarian dictatorship of Rome their ruthless leader called himself First Citizen! This says a lot about society.
>>23811276I mean it's kind of boring but it's mainly meant to be an educational piece about the soviet union, since knowledge on what was going on in there at the time wasn't so well known (hence the name, "Iron Curtain")I thought it was uninteresting and that its ideas and observations were a bit typical, but then I realized that's due in large part to the book itself. It's important in a historical context, but again it's boring as a story imo. It's a piece of political education first, art second.1984 I found much better as an actual book.
>>23812173I was kind of stunned by that phrase. Such modern rhetoric from a book written almost a hundred years ago.
>>23811276No, it's a fable that parallels the rise of Stalin. If you consider criticism of Stalin as "anti-communist propaganda", then yes, and you are also retarded.>>23812285Rand's books are so much worse than Orwell's
>>23813065Qua literature maybe and marginally. Rand has him beat on profundity.
No, it's nothing that serious. It's just a funny book about talking animals. Imagine a bunch of animals acting like humans. That's hilarious.
>>23813065I am Marxist-Leninist and I need to read it and write an essay about this book for schoolBut it just irks me to read McCarthist propaganda
>>23812173Synchronicity.I've been thinking about this exact quote for the past week.
>>23813074>Rand has him beat on profundity.
>>23814442McCarthy was right to be suspicious, just not sure what he was seeing. I think it's pretty obvious now that our education system was infiltrated by certain people pushing certain ideologies. Somehow an economic ideology got conflated with race and social justice. It explains the insanity. It didn't just become a bastion of social justice idiots on its own. Clearly, Jewish communism means something different than what communism actually means. Leftists scatter like cockroaches when anyone tries to bring this up to them. The United States rises out of the ashes of WW2 on top and experienced great economic prosperity. Let's slowly start educating our populace that White people are bad, the US inherently evil, all White people are privileged, and we need to dismantle Whiteness. We need to decolonize the country, we need to decolonize math. You can't be racist unless you have power and privilege. Let's change more definitions. Because obviously that makes complete sense to do after coming out on top after World War 2. Now we see the result of decades of that propaganda. Of course nothing happened though, it was completely organic and it's not strange at all that the majority of the people pushing these ideologies were a successful minority that had just been kicked out of Germany and started aligning with all the other minorities against the majority. Nothing strange at all about that and if you point it out, you're actually a bad person and delusional.
>>23814528There's nothing wrong with homosexuals or transsexuals. The issue is that Jews use these people to divide us and destroy class and race solidarity.Postmodernism is the spawn of the Talmud, the slavery of the West and the conquest of the Middle East are their goals.
>>23814546That's what I was trying to say, but couldn't find the words. People don't see what's hiding within. Gay people shouldn't be discriminated nor should blacks, okay, wait why are you demonizing straights and white/European people? That's what bothers me. If it was just about equality then it wouldn't be subversive. And why do Jews seem to have so much anger at us. I understand if a Native or black does and other groups, but Jews act like we treated them worse than anyone else. It's like Jewish intellectuals are on some mission to destroy us.
>>23814579The funniest thing is this. They are always for higher representation of blacks and minorities and so on, and to some extent, I understand this.However, the funny thing is that they are the MOST privileged part of society, yet they don't make it harder for themselves to join universities like they do for whites.At this point I don't know what we should do with them. Giving them Israel meant that they will never be satisfied with what they have. Their promised land is from the Nile to the Euphrates.Really, the USSR had something good in mind: they created an autonomous zone for Jews in Siberia. That would have worked better.
>>23811789>>23811798Wrong, Orwell was a socialist who made the book showing people that Stalin was a fascist con artist who straight up betrayed Marx vision. Orwel wanted a community where the workers were in control, Stalin never allowed anyone but an elite of bureaucrats to have any power
>>23815731Reddit is a place on the internet where people frequently use words incorrectly (and are celebrated for it). Perhaps that would be a more appropriate for you
>>23815766Funny that you say that since the only place with more than 1k people that call Orwell an "anti communist" is probably one of those communist subreddits
>>23811798>>23811824Yes, I read through it again after seeing the thread and have to agree. If anything, Orwell was extremely kind in his parable. Despite actually saying otherwise in the text, the pigs were actually hardworking: learning cooking, farm building and management, distilling, standing, games, and use of tools in a short period of time. Several times, the text demonstrated that the pigs were more intelligent than the rest of the farm. Outside of letting the animals laze after doing the bare minimum like the cat, and the obvious human-like greed the pigs fell into, I wonder whether the pigs were justified in their insistence on top down management. The animals were stupid. The communists he parodies are far less exceptional. >>23815766Dubs of Satan, see above. The whole point of Snowball seemed to be 'real communism'/"socialism?" (sorry if I'm using this wrong US politics has everything tied up in rebrandings and newspeak); he proposed genuine changes that would have made the lives of the farm animals more enjoyable and easier. Compare to Napoleon, whose policies mirror the 'not real communism' corruption that happens whenever it is ever applied in a real setting. The farm's "capitalism" certainly wasn't the happy ending. The ideal outcome for the farm does seem to be some elite-driven socialism. >>23812053It's short, too. Can be read over a night, for anyone lurking. :)
>>23811276I always figured criticism was focused on the morally corrupt individuals in influential positions in any society, regardless of governing form
>>23812029The USSR made big speeches about "income equality and war" then tried to overthrow the government of Finland and shot striking workers.
>>23812143>Orwell was felating Trotsky before the big meanie pig ruined everything.I mean, Stalin did rape a child and murdered communists but Orwell is the bad guy here because he snitched people like that.You should obviously protect child molesters and murderers like communists do.
>>23811798>The only socialism is Marxism.Theories of socialism existed before Marx.Competing theories of socialism existed alongside Marx.And sure enough there are new theories of socialism since Marx.But all you fuckers can think about is some 19th century messiah who MUST be the last word on everything. Marxism is a religion.
>>23817190You can just end all discussions with these people by just bringing up the fact Stalin molested a child.There's no need to get all deep.
Jones was a bit of a dick, they were right to get rid of him
>>23811276
>>23817801Nah, I found it okey 6/10
>>23814442>But it just irks me to read McCarthist propagandaYou are a fucking dumbass if you think this is McCarthyist. Check out the publication date, and read the foreword in your edition. As it will probably say, Europe had a favourable view of Stalin at the point of its publication, and this book was a much-needed voice against Stalin.
dunno I haven't read it
>>23811276It's Trotskyist propaganda. Orwell was going down the same path as all the neoconservatives. Eventually he would of denounced socialism as a deadly dangerous utopian dream
>>23818067Based Tuberculosis saving the World from another Neocon.
>>23816291>The ideal outcome for the farm does seem to be some elite-driven socialismIt's the opposite, Napoleon was evil because he wanted the Vanguard Party to be "more equal than than the others"The main point of the book is that a Vanguard Party from the soviet union, china, north korea and cuba, a party of so called educated individuals in an authoritarian goverment that claims to act in the name of the workers rather than being the workers themselves having the power to say whatever they want and electing whoever they want is not real MarxismOrwel believed in absolute free speech and popular vote with transparency in elections.
>>23811276It's anti-communist.
>>23818444Nice digits. I also forgot to post the link https://redsails.org/jones-on-animal-farm/
Mao, Che Guevara and Tito all said he was all the things in that book.
>>23818431>It's the opposite>Orwell believed in absolute free speech and popular voteIs that really so? I got the impression that the farm animals wouldn't have made it past the first winter or two giving equal input to all the animals. The book goes out of its way to show that many of the species were stupid despite the potential of free 'unlimited' education (in this case, literacy). In fact, the only animals having complete literacy were the pigs and Benjamin the donkey (the author insert). Muriel the goat and the guard dogs could read, and Clover (the female horse) knew all the letters but couldn't read. Every other animal was dumb.So when I imagine what would be the most ideal outcome for the farm, it is an elite lead socialism headed by the pigs, for the benefit of all the animals on the farm, despite the animals' intellectual capabilities. It's certainly not democracy, republic (many of the animals were swayed by which pig was the most passionate), capitalism, communism, or socialism. I doubt a meritocratic socialism would work either.Taken at face value, the short length and direct writing style of the text does come across as antisoviet propaganda. I do not believe that the farm's problems would have been solved with popular vote, yet maybe Orwell wasn't planning this as a commentary on ideal government but simply a hit piece about bad government.
>>23811276George Orwell has sadly become the pinnacle of litslop. Thanks Jordan Peterson, and for your shit poem
