Why do people here malign this man as totally worthless? Like many people with social media, he holds forth on subjects that he probably ought not to, but his YouTube lectures while he was a professor are good compared to the output of nearly all other psychology professors. The views he is best known for ("Clean your room") are dismissed out of hand by glib pseuds, it's actually profoundly wise. If stated in another way, such as in Huxley's "The Devils of Loudun" it seems clear that the mass of pseuds here would all nod in agreement at this sage commentary.>Theologians, I repeat, have carefully guarded against Manichaean dualism, but, at all times, all too many Christians have behaved as though the devil were a First Principle, on the same footing as God. They have paid more attention to evil and the problem of its eradications than to good and the methods by which individual goodness may be deepened, and the sum of goodness increased. The effects which follow too constant and intense a concentration upon evil are always disastrous. Those who crusade, not for God in themselves, but against the devil in others, never succeed in making the world better, but leave it either as it was, or sometimes even perceptibly worse than it was, before the crusade began. By thinking primarily of evil we tend, however excellent our intentions, to create occasions for evil to manifest itself.
Here's another example, from Peer Gynt>It is well put by one who knows, ‘Govern first thine own self. That is what, before all else, will turn sour to sweet.’bro this is so wise n sheit... huh jorden peterstein? complete hack
>>23813933Women dislike things that aren’t explicitly meant for them, or gay people
>The views he is best known for ("Clean your room") are dismissed out of hand by glib pseudsIts not dismissed at all and thats not what people criticize him for.
>>23813978That's because women are closely aligned with their sexuality, and see that gay men desire the same things they do; burly, hairy apes.
"It's impossible to be a life-changing presence to some people without simultaneously being a complete joke to others"
Noone cared about his psychology, please don't pretend otherwise.
>>23813987Except that he is best known for his interview with cathy newman, a masterclass in debating and btfoing feminists and leftist bigots, which retards who start these threads always choose to ignore. That interview has 50 million views on youtube.
>>23814360>make a chain of descriptive statements that lead any reasonable person to conclude you believe in a prescriptive solution>”that’s not what I said!”yeah real masterclass
>>23814554>retard conflates directly answering a question with prescribing solutions to vaguely defined problemsyou need to pay attention lest you become another failed journalist
>>23814554in addition to the last guy, and among other mistakes, you also conflate "reasonable" with "normal", and that with "good".
>>23813933The issue with Peterson is not any of his psychology/self help stuff which is mostly innocuous. The biggest problem is that he started talking exclusively about things outside his actual area of expertise and has now completely lost his mind due to the fame and fortune thrust upon him by an aimless horde of shiftless reactionary dolts who have never thought about any of the things he talks about before.
>>23813933just wash your penis, it's not hard.
>>23813933he's a psych who got addicted to psych meds and went to russia to get put in a drug induced coma, said he drank an apple cider which made it so he couldnt sleep for a MONTH and shills a meat only diet with his scam artist daughter Also all the stuff w/ jews and daily wire nowI did read the 12 rules book and it's not bad but he as a character is pretty ridiculous
>>23813978Incorrect. Male children will not play with girl's toys, while female children will play with any toys, but in female ways. Similar behaviours are observed in preadolscent chimps. Read "Male Brain" and "Female Brain", BrizandineAutomotive marketing sells cars to men and women buy them. Operating the other way around sees a loss of sales.
>>23813933Yeah honestly I don't really like Jordan Peterson all that much these days. I think he's had too many people licking his ass for too long and says some pretty dumb things these days thinking he is infallible. Like how he tries to say that if you act like a good person then you must be religious. Which is like saying if I act like Luke Skywalker then I must think that Star Wars is real.But when he was just a psychology professor. He was very insightful.
>>23814868Source?
lmao
>>23813933>Why do people here malign this man as totally worthless?feelings on inadequacy
>>23813933The MIC funded media framed him as an outsider and women demonize outsiders as absolute evil that want to eat children. Partly to suppress their sexual attraction.In nature mammal males tend to patrol an area and protect the tribes which consist of social females and children. An outsider male will kill the children and mate with the women so fear and attraction is intertwined in the females.
>>23813933Yeah. I really wonder why.
>>23814818Bingo
>>23813933He is, in fact, the glib pseud: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORDoVM1OmKI
>>23814818The demonization was worst before he went outside his field. He had mobs vandalizing venues while he was trying to talk about psychology simply because he was being mentioned by le 4chan chuds.>>23815360Disgusting fucking retards.
>>23815371>there's too many words, your brain shuts offok retard
>>23815410Not an argument.
>>23815419It is. You're too retarded to recognize arguments.
>>23813933>Why do people here malign this man as totally worthless?He may have been on to something at some point in the past before his mental decline but as it stands he is nothing more than a lazy political griter who is playing at being a philosopher and can't help but make an ass of himself at every turn by refusing to engage honestly with the material he hopes to criticize. He's full of shit. Just watch (and bare though) his debate with Zizek if you don't believe me.
>>23813933He just puts simple thoughts in too many words the whole greentext could be:> Faithless bad. Zealot also bad.
>>23815447It's not what those words mean.
he's a good guy and library of ancient wisdom but a bit of a boomer and giving people advice for last century that won't bear any fruit in this one unless things get really really bad
>>23815447>ThisIt drives me up the fucking wall the way he will always puke out a mess of jargon in order to obfuscate his points and posture himself like a "le complex Intellectual". I don't understand how so many otherwise intelligent people fall for this shit.
>>23813933dr jordan b hairtransplant
>>23815447lol. lmao even
>>23813933
>>23814818this here might be realest shit a nigga ever done read ong
>>23813933Jungian says Jung things
>>23814818lol, never seen peterson summed up so well before./thread
>>23813933There are retards who consider his Captain Obvious shit insightful, so as long as there are such retards, he admittedly is not worthless.
>>23814818>and has now completely lost his mind due to the fame and fortune thrust upon him by an aimless horde of shiftless reactionary doltsNo he lost his mind due to wendigo psychosis
Idk what they did to him but between his weird benzo detoxes in Russia and his time in Israel something broke. I’ve never interacted with him and he blocked me on X along with thousands of others. I’m sure he had some insightful things to say but it’s been overshadowed by his bizarre philosemitism and his confusing politics.
>>23814818Yea, it’s this.
>>23815875Society has been teaching multiple generations that if we are sad and unsuccessful it is someone else's fault and that we have a right to be happy merely by existing. Listening to Jorden Peterson is the first time these people are presented with the idea of living with self-responsibility, integrity and a call to take charge of their own lives. Unsurprisingly that brings about a significant shift in their worldview and spurs them on to seek more - and (((they))) hate him for it.
Does he ever promote or discuss community, raising families or what it means to be a good man for the community?Anyone who does not promote goodFamily values/community is clearly not for the people
>>23815907>and (((they))) hate him for itTouch grass.I really mean it Anon.Despite what Peterson and his cronies my tell you the world is infact not populated in great majority by sanctimonious "muh oppressors and oppressed" retards. "(((they)))" are just politically affiliated media groups working in tandem with lobbyists and planted intelligencia (or useful idiots like Peterson) to sell you prepared and diametrically opposed (and empty) ideaology as if it were a sports team.
>>23813933I'm still waiting for a politically left-leaning/fence-sitting "intellectual" to debunk his fundamentals on postmodernism, besides just moving the goalpost or pointing to a niche book read by less than 500 people.Also,>he said clean your room!!!!111||||Mad at your parents/parental figure. Nothing shocking there. But what's truly appalling here is all of you retards trying to undermine his ideas just bc of that one line.>his fans dont read booksYOU my nigga does not read. And if you do, you only read awfully self-indulgent books, I assure you that, nay, I fucking testify to that.
>>23816100what a faggity ass reply lemme tell you that
>>23813987nta, but this was the go-to meme to put down JP until he started boomering on Xitter.I think it might be salty feminists, numales knights, blackpologists, pinkos, or troons getting a cheap shot in, not actual pseuds
>>23816113lol I agree only because that wasn't the image that I originally meant to post.
Has Jordan mentioned Iran since going to work for Shapiro?
>>23815451You are one google search away from knowing what they mean, come on just do it.
>>23815888Can you imagine being a drug addict who has to fly to Russia for an experimental and dangerous, detox because you're took week to taper off and go to rehab like everyone else? While your wife is undergoing cancer treatment, no less! I went cold turkey and detoxed off fentanyl on someone's couch for two weeks and didn't get one minute of sleep for the first 5 days. A man weaker than myself cannot teach me what it is to be strong.Also his constant weeping and Jew worship are just pathetic.
>>23816136Too weak*
>>23814341did he say that? that's an amazing quote
>>23814965he's right though you are just too dumb to realize it
>>23816091>fundamentals on postmodernismqrd?
>>23816051>Despite what Peterson and his cronies my tell you the world is infact not populated in great majority by sanctimonious "muh oppressors and oppressed" retards.The one thing just about everyone who is poor, homeless, depressed, addicted, an incel or a NEET have in common is that they blame their parents, the government, capitalism, immigrants, wypipo or the jews for it, and their refusal to think about what they themselves could do to change things is what keeps them in those circumstances.
Retard.
>>23813933I think Jordan is a talented speaker, but I haven't seen anything from 12 Rules for Life that would be transformative for someone who has an IQ over 75.
>>23813933>>23813933>>23813933To those for whom Peterson was a surrogate father figure: How are you doing? Did it help?I didn't have either, and am pretty wretched; wondering if I should've sought out someone to fill that paternal hole.
>>23816324Cope harder.Yes, just like that.
>>23813933Because he's spent the last 5 years steadily succumbing to Twitter brainrot after his psycho daughter made him quit benzos cold turkey. Like I was in college for "peak" JP, and never really saw an issue with the guys who got actionable life advice from him even if I don't really agree with him writ large. But let's not pretend that guy is around anymore. He's functionally indistinguishable from a whole galaxy of other right wing grievance mongers at this point.
>>23814818It fits so well, academics, especially in psychology and philosophy, will not prosper mentally once they have extreme exposure to both scrutiny and worse, people encouraging them to delve deeper into crackpottery. It really is a blessing that over 99% of them will die in obscurityhttps://youtu.be/e8gwpGMq-uU?t=39
Peterson is alright. I don't agree with him on a lot of things, and find him to be kind of pompous, but that doesn't change the fact that people got mad at him for two reasons:He opposed the idea of "misgendering" transexuals being made a crime.He had the gall to say men and women are different, have different needs, and women should probably have babies, if they don't want to suffer a breakdown later in life. He's literally just right on both of those issues. Anyone who hears those points and reacts with anger, is a dangerous ideological extremist.
>>23813933>Why do people here malign this man as totally worthless?Reminder that the autists stimming themselves by repeating the same nonsensical vitriol about Peterson, thread after thread for year after year, are pathetic ideologues and resentful idiots. His best feature is that he gets them to out themselves as such.>libtard /lit/Seethes that Peterson turns them into reactionaries by pointing out their bullshit.>pseud /lit/Thinks cynically dunking on mass media meant for a general audience is a sign of intelligence.>chud /lit/Thinks he's part of a Jewish conspiracy preventing them from having sex.>tranny /lit/Thinks he's a "literal nazi."
>>23813933He is useless because you can get a better conservatism from Zizek or just read Jung and Nietzche directly.
"If there's any critique about Jordan Peterson that hasn't but should be addressed, it's with the presuppositions contained within “clean your room”. The logic of this mantra is that you start to work on small issues in your life so that you can eventually work up to harder ones. First shower and brush your teeth, then go for a job interview, then get hired, then ask for a promotion, etc etc etc. You get it, right? It's perfectly logical. Except there's one false assumption Peterson makes, in that he believes that “cleaning your room” is Step 1 to getting your life on track. He's wrong. Cleaning your room is merely Step 2. What is Step 1, then? Entering Peterson's room. What Peterson doesn't understand, and it's easy to see why as he's been a clinical psychologist for 3 decades, is that the reason people sort themselves out when they meet him at his practice isn't because they listened to him and subsequently cleaned their rooms. It's because they placed themselves in a position to have someone to listen to in the first place. By that I mean that making the choice of one's own free will to see a therapist and seek out help, saying to yourself that you need to change and you need to get better, is the true Step 1. Any instructions or advice that follow after that are all secondary as consequent. But the catch is that choosing to seek professional help isn't something that can be taught, because being taught this impulse to seek professional help would already necessitate the presence of a professional to teach or imbue said impulse – a Catch-22.
Do not be fooled by the reductive and materialistic scientism of 21st century pop psychology (insofar as 20th century pop psychology was “everything I don't like about society is pathological self-aggrandizement” and 21st century pop psychology is “everything I don't like about society is pathological self-deprecation, including societies of the 20th century) – for those who are truly and sincerely “mentally ill” (why else would one pay big money to see a clinical psychologist?), cleaning your room will sort your life together, yes, but ONLY MATERIALISTICALLY. You will have better spaces, but not a better head space. You will be financially stable, but not psychologically stable.This is ultimately the hard truth we as a species need to accept, and it ties in perfectly with why some people do not believe in the mere existence of mental illness itself, because if all you had to do to “cure” your “anxiety” or “depression” was clean out your garage, exercise more and have a better diet, then you were never mentally ill in the first place – you were just a fucking wreck of a human being. Can being mentally ill cause a spiral of this sort? Sometimes sure, but the vice versa? Highly highly unlikely. Being depressed isn't wanting to commit suicide because your body is low on vitamins/sleep/relationships and high on stress or fear, that's just a perfectly rational response to bad circumstances (self-imposed or otherwise). Mental illness is IRrational by definition, it is wanting to commit suicide even when seemingly everything is, for lack of a better word, objectively going well for you, whether that be close friends, a good job, love in your life, etc.
>>23813933Because his criticisms of post-modernists are incredibly ignorant.
>>23813933> If stated in another way, such as in Huxley's "The Devils of Loudun" it seems clear that the mass of pseuds here would all nod in agreement at this sage commentary.Not at all. I think all theologians, philosophers of religion, apologists, mystics, and psychoanalysts are charlatans.
So what am I saying then? That cleaning your room is useless and pretentious? Of course not. Everyone should be cleaning their rooms. An ideal world would be one where everyone would see the importance of cleaning their room, literally or otherwise, as self-evident. But a clean room, even if it eventually leads to the psychological momentum that acquires you a career or a marriage, may save your “life” in a manner of speaking, but it isn't going to save your sanity or your soul, and that is by far the greatest snakeoil that Peterson ever sold the world. He's not giving you a cure, he's giving you a temporary balm that will neither amend nor negate the angst he claims to be fighting. He wants you to bear your cross like Jesus himself but he also wants you to rescue your father from the belly of the whale, but last time I checked Jesus only had to do the former and not the latter. You can't have both
>>23813933Because all his "revelations" are conversation at pub tier. He'd be an interesting guy to chat to but he has nothing of more substantive worth outside of sometimes interesting takes. And that's him at his best, the rest of the time he says moronic rubbish, self help trite or is crying like woman over some abstract idea of young men. Literally think of the children but for incels.
The only coherent discussion I've had with a Petersonian was with an overachieving Asian-american teenager on a long haul flight. Every other instance of good faith discussion (with adults) devolved into question-begging and denial of obviously contradictory conclusions.That, and his clear mental decline. Sad state when charlatans are held as prophets by the lost youth.
This kind of overload and overexerting burden is a fundamentally Icarus-esque issue, it is guaranteed to lead to burnout and self-destruction for nearly any kind of human being. This is fine if you want to live the sort of "live fast, die young" attitude without its usual hedonistic connotations, but if that were really the case, why would anyone with this mindset ever see a therapist? To, somehow, get better at not getting better? Nonsense. He's also completely wrong about lobsters, it's been debunked a thousand times and is also just a symptom of the kind of biological essentialism that has plagued this planet both scientifically and politically, and plagued the way we conceptualize of our own emotions and consciousnesses. Thinking about people in terms of organs/nerves/biochemicals is totally fine when appropriate, but ONLY thinking in those terms is poisonous not only to your“self” but also ironically so to said organs/nerves/biochemicals, but that's neither here nor there.The skeptic who is undoubtedly thinking about how “mind and body” or “agent and arena” are interlinked needs to keep in mind that these, especially the latter, are largely metaphors: how we talk about ourselves should not also be how we * think * about ourselves because you cannot infer accuracy from convenience, and any modern day cognitive scientist worth their salt knows full well that our metaphors for the mind and consciousness are fundamentally inaccurate. This incapability to be more precise is why we default onto metaphorical language in the first place, as metaphors are necessarily imprecise, they * must * be imprecise. The idea that a messy room is indicative of a messy mind is the exact same kind of pop psychology I criticized earlier, and it is frankly a disgrace to the human spirit to think that something like the mind can be so easily represented through such a crude visual trick when even the greatest works of art have consistently failed at this task
i think you've kinda answered your own questioni was into him for a while when he first got big, mainly cos of his lectures on psychoanalysis, religion and literature, which i was getting into at the time, as well as making some good criticisms of contemporary culture beyond that though he's got high on his own supply of fame and wasted his potential in getting lost in culture wars bullshit and conservative hangups with progressive identity politics and general radlibs there isn't a single contemporary reactionary commentator who i find to be worth their salt, but then again i am on the far left, albeit post-left i guess (the stuff he hates, yet give an answer and analysis to the roots of issues in contemporary society)
>>23816315>The one thing just about everyone who is poor, homeless, depressed, addicted, an incel or a NEET have in common is that they blame their parents, the government, capitalism, immigrants, wypipo or the jews for it, and their refusal to think about what they themselves could do to change things is what keeps them in those circumstances.Sure, within circumstance, (and not lump assumption, as there is quite literally no other way for you to reliably substantiate this sort of claim) but you and every other reactionary "conservative" seem to act as if the systemic causes of these issues in the individual do not exist, have no true affect or are necessarily ineffable at the risk of sacrificing this "self-accountablility" or that merely by being afflicted with these issues it becomes the exclusive response to do so.I do not disagree with the general sentiment of what Peterson is saying, and I don't believe that most people would either, it's just that for him where there is and could be genuine sage advice there is a mess of vindictive nonsense and complete bullshit to accompany it.
>>23813933Nah he's an unintentionally funny charlatan
>/lit/ at it again with the 'clean your room' lineWE GET IT BROS; YOU DONT LIKE YOUR PARENTS AND YOU HATE YOURSELF
>>23815907The only solid thing he was onto was that young men are being neglected by the modern world and the consequences are being felt throughout human society. He came to this conclusion by doing the grunt work of psychology for however many years that he did it, 15 or somesuch.As soon as he veered off of this good and important point and started commentating on his personal politics, and then theorycrafting his religious belief and metaphysics he lost any coherency with the public."Young men are suffering and we need to help them for our sake as well as theirs" is an easy point to make, the rest is disorganized yammering based on less than 15 years(or however many it was) of grunt work.He was given his soap box and he was too reticent to let go of it, now we have another feature for the circus.
