Does /lit/ agree with this assessment?Main themes:The Iliad= humility and forgiveness (rejection of the Self)The Odyssey= individualism and punishment (acceptance of the Self)The Iliad’s main theme of humility is apparent in Achille’s godlike rage. Through the death of Patroclus and the meeting with Priam where he returns Hector’s body, Achilles realizes that his place in the world is no greater than other soldiers at Troy and he realizes that his godlike vanity is what led to his best friend’s death meaning that the soldier must sublimate himself to the rest or risk losing his comrade.The Odyssey however is totally different. It is about usurpers attempting to steal a king’s identity and the king seeks to reclaim his role. It isn’t about working with the whole but driving out the rest who do not belong in his land or taking his identity. It is a complete acceptance of the Self as the only thing that matters and it has no acceptance of enemies like in the Iliad. Rather it has a long massacre of suitors whose crime is that they do not belong to the identity of the King of Ithaca and must be driven out from his world. What are your thoughts on this analysis?
>>23814242bump
>>23814242Like the takes. Homer is an endless well of wisdom.
>>23816065It is the yin and the yang of the self. The soldier must get rid of his whole identity and his vanities in the one. He must say that his identity and the disrespects to his person mean absolutely nothing on the one hand whereas in the other poem, the man must rid his mind of everything except dealing out justice in his rage. The one entirely shows the downside of unbridled rage while the other is a celebration of it.
>>23814242>The Iliad= humility and forgiveness (rejection of the Self)The wrath of Achilles is a good thing. >The Odyssey= individualism and punishment (acceptance of the Self)Hubris is what got him shit on in the first place.
>>23816090The wrath of Achilles was not a good thing. It was what led to his friend dying at Hector’s hand. The entire poem is about the downsides of wrath and of taking personal affronts too seriously when they get in the way of more important matters such as the war around him.As for Ulysses and hubris I agree but also I have to add there is a fine line between hubris (overestimating one’s importance) and the idea that one’s identity is what is most important to oneself especially when contrasted with the sort of message mentioned earlier in the Iliad. The Odyssey ends with a just massacre while the Iliad ends with Achilles coming to accept the honor of enemies.
>>23814242>Rather it has a long massacre of suitors >whose crime is that they do not belong to the identity of the King of Ithaca >and must be driven out from his world. Object to several things. Being totally improper to the Mistress of the house, suiters were blasphemers first, and polite pillagers second.They are all Ithacans, and if they pursuit their suit courteously (behaving like Odysseus did with Nausikaa) and Penelope accepted, the one who wed her would be a proper King, though there might still be a fight if Odysseus came back after 10yearswar+10yearssail. Odysseus' world is Ithaca, as its rightful king. To properly drive out the offerders, he should also meet the families of the suitors in war and deal them the same death, because by not restraining their sons they were abetting their blasphemy. BUT, Athena brings word from Zeus that there must be no war. When>GOD Said Sono other moral need exist.
>>23814242You have point about Illiad but not Oddesey
>>23816803In what way? What specifically do you disagree with? To me, the Iliad is about the folly of putting yourself ahead of others and it contrasts to the very identity themed Odyssey. It is just that in one the hero learns to accept his enemies and to respect them while in the other the enemies get violently murdered without any sympathy.
Get the fuck in the ship boys, we're going to hell and back
>>23816102>The wrath of Achilles was not a good thing. It was what led to his friend dying at Hector’s handIt is entirely seemly for a young man killed in battle to lie mangled by the bronze spear. In his death all things appear fair. This is what men are made for.
>>23816832Some enemies are worthy of respect. Some aren't.
