>exposed the scam of Zen BuddhismZen pseuds have been crying about it ever since. If you need any more proof of the value of the book, there's a huge /r/zen thread about it full of butthurt Redditor soi baldies. >b-b-but what does some Westoid know about Zen?Cope. Westoid translator of Japanese author who exposed his native Zen schools in 1916.>b-b-but if you're talking about answers to koans, you're missing the point of koansCope. The answers are based on actual school material. The schools expected certain responses.I highly recommend this book to anyone who's long suspected that Zen Buddhism is nothing more than a bunch of pseuds and weebs trying to sound enigmatic.
Christ is King.
>>23815828Proselytism is not wanted here.
>>23815823I always thought Koans were pointless on purpose. Time wasters to help beginner monks deal with the boredom of asceticism.
>>23816273Prove it.
Reddit cry thread:https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/jqtj5t/zen_cringefest_281_answers_to_koans_not_worthy_of/
>>23816335>r/zenYou mean the subreddit whose members try to claim that Zen isn't Buddhism, which is cool actually?
>>23816329Can you give any evidence it is?
>>23816339I asserted no claim either way.
>>23816343Then the null hypothesis is that it isn't.
>>23816345That's not how it works.
>>23815828cope>>23816326they're not pointless, they're absurdist,in a satrean sense. a well constructed koan shakes you out of your over-seriousness and abstraction of the world, asking you to pause and reconsider what it is you're actually looking at
>>23816347>a well constructed koan shakes you out of your over-seriousness and abstraction of the world, asking you to pause and reconsider what it is you're actually looking atThe historical evidence is that this is later spin and that they were in fact meant to be midwit riddles with desired responses.
>>23816351caring about historical schools, lineages, or commentary by a jewish author... why?they're all good for nothing, because zen itself is good for nothing, so at that point, just sit.... meditate in your days.but metaphyiscally, take what is useful, discard what is not... zen is enjoyably studied as a syncretism with stirner's egoism, and nietzsche's self overcoming
>>23816375What are you on about? The book is a translation from Japanese.
People who read philosophy are are so full of shit. I truly despise you idiots.
>>23816380>I highly recommend this book to anyone who's long suspected that Zen Buddhism is nothing more than a bunch of pseuds and weebs trying to sound enigmatic.>>23816380is what im on about... it's a worthless concern. bad practices and koans can be discarded, especially by a lay person.principles zen teaches, like the emptyness of the self/things is an idea that also appears in western existentialism under keikkergard, nietzsche, stirner... the malleablity/impermanence in the properties of things/self, slavery to desires/fixed ideas, purpose in the face of nihility being an exercise of directing and controlling faith/desire.
>>23816392ur worldview is full of shit , and your greatest sin is that you have enslaved yourself to it
>>23816401anon i saw ur post on /lgbt/ seething about not being a pretty tranny
>>23816566How can you tell it's the same person?
I think Shingon is coolerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMKEEoIjUHM
I believed myself of no worth. That is why I try to only win I am highly competetive
Zen has always been a cringe religion. And even today the zentards are still mad about buddhismhttps://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/1fhtwzk/why_zen_masters_reject_debunked_religious/Pretty funny to see how the gurus of an artificial shitty religion get mad at vipassana movement claiming it's a debunked shitty religion kek.They really fear the novel popularity of buddhism both through the academia studying the suttas and the enthusiasm for buddhist meditation by the lay people.
>>23816401>>23816566iktf...
>>23817050you are such a weird, broken person dude. Zen and Buddhism are one and the same. Zen is just focusing more on the practical side of buddhism, in particular sitting in meditation, whereis traditional buddhism has more traditions and rituals and stuff like that.
>>23816380And we know "translators" consider faithfulness to the original their highest ideal. They wouldn't sacrifice accuracy in favour of ideological or religous propaganda.
>>23816567you can't , im not them , reusing their picture>>23816566:v>>23816569the chants are so cool>>23817050ur mad (!)>>23817109idk, theravada is pretty divergent, tiandai also much more philosphical in nature>>23818445>university of haifa
>>23818445If you're not a dumb mutt, you can compare the translation with the original, as scholars have done.
>>23817109No, he's right about Zen being cringe. Pretty much every Buddhist school except Zen (which was influenced too much by Taoism) says something intelligible, whereas Zen is about deliberate obfuscation for the sake of appearing wise. That's all it is, showboating. Anyone can imitate the manner of speaking of the Zen "guru" and go around collecting upvoooooots.
>>23815823Niggas will sit in one place for 12 hours a day trying to make their thoughts and emotions not real instead of talking to their parents for 10 minutes a week
>>23819261I guess this explains why lgbt types, women, and other such undesirables are so attracted to zen.
>>23815823>non-gradual enlightenment/trainingsee this is what happens when you don't follow the buddha's teachings and vinayayou can't just skip shit and act like you've achieved the goal
>>23815823I never read this before but this is great. This book's almost good enough to make me stop being an anti-semite. 1916, huh? Were there any earlier works in English that dealt with zen in similar depth? Idk the history very well, before this the earliest zen book I probably could have named was Zen Flesh, Zen Bones. I mostly just sit around and read translations of Dogen for my zen practice.>>23819241Maybe if you're on reddit. Reddit's a peculiarly ill suited place to talk about Zen. Which I think speaks to Zen's benefits (zenefits™).
>>23815823>seething this muchyou sound like you need to practice some zen lol.
>>23819317https://terebess.hu/zen/sound-one-hand.pdf
>>23815823>Doesn't understand koan>It must be meaningless!The western mind is so tiresome
>>23819261>>23819269except the only thing zen states, is that your thoughts aren't you... they're malleable , like an object in your hand, this is likewise found in egoismyou meditate/zazen, to practice manipulating them, they come, you make as little comment on them as you can, then you pass to deeper thoughtsand a wave satori/awakening, is a moment of sudden liberation from a prior bias, as if a snake having shed skin
>>23819272oh i meant to (you) for above
>>23819319You have no impulse control.
>>23819379learn to read, retard
>>23819856>>23819858lol.
>>23819863you were doing well, but your ego is starting to show
>>23819379lots of ego in this post
>>23819869>>23819866r u like a shill/psyop employee? is this a research thread?
>>23819317you sound like such a fed honestly ..
>>23820179lots of paranoia/shizophrenia/anime mind-rot/pedophilia/degenerate foot fetishism in this post
>>23820181desu, im interested in starting my cult, and ive never understood the appeal of this man or of other "perfect" gods. nor of unspecific demons...>>23820190i speak truth/yes/yes/yes>>23819228speaketh the mutt :)
>>23815823>there's a huge /r/zen thread aboutGo back
>>23815823>turns out making dogmatic sects in Buddhism involves falsehoodYou don't say
>>23819844Your thoughts are you though
>>23815823>>23816335So I google this book and besides you and the reddit guy, every other website I found talks about this book like it's a beautiful introduction to zen thought and teaching. You and the reddit guy are the only one's I'm seeing saying that this book debunks (or tries to debunk) zen.
>>23820439they're you as much as your clothing is you... replaceable.
>>23820571I don't get from what perspective I'm supposed to change my thoughts. It seems like if thoughts, desires, attitudes change it's because there is a stronger desire or a higher ideal, all of these seem contingent. Seems like this chain of thoughts changing other thoughts will only end when I die.
>>23815823>>23819379Koans actually are meaningless, like haiku. Zen koans are intended to demonstrate that logical reasoning can't solve everything. Haiku, meanwhile, translates to "light verse," meaning they're supposed to be playful, not serious. The whole premise of Zen rejects the Western passion narrative. It's anti-egocentric whereas Western religions are highly, even violently, egocentric in comparison.
>>23820533the entire discussion around this book seems schizoid. Some of the discussion on the reddit thread may as well have been a different language. I still don't know if the replies on the reddit thread are for or against the bookapparently they think the original is good but the translation of it OP posted isn't good? I think
>>23816339Nta, but I quite being a christian because of you people so that’s an overall result of -1 from your proselytism >>23816335Post reddit belong on reddit
>>23819241>for the sake of appearing wise>Anyone can imitate the manner of speaking of the Zen "guru" and go around collecting upvooooootsInternet zen is fake and gay and oxymoronic. The entire point of zen is living monastically, shutting the fuck up, and practising. Lay zenfags don’t represent anything let alone westerners at that. And do you not see that it’s not fair to besmirch a religion based on reddit? Zen is the most iconoclastic version of any religion. More religions should zen-ify if they want to survive the modern world without becoming a larp club. Although it’s true that zen, especially as practiced by the western layperson can be pretty larpy too, the spirit of the religion lives on.
>>23820598Haikus aren’t meaningless, they’re imagistic. For some reason English speakers seem to be under the impression that meaning can only be derived from moral and logical reasoning.
>>23820631I looked up Yoel Hoffman on Wikipedia and this book is entirely glossed over, and then I checked alternate languages - he doesn’t even have a Japanese-language wikipedia article. Odd, given that this book is supposedly super controversial and caused a giant uproar in Japan and debunked zen
