Why did dystopian fiction like 1984 fail to prevent the rise of authoritarianism in the west?Concepts like thought crime, newspeak, re-writing of history, two minutes of hate, ministry of truth, double think, memory hole have become commonplace yet no one cares.How come lot of the same people who push these ideas are fans of dystopian fiction?How can otherwise intelligent people read a totalitatian fictional novel and think of themselves as enlightened while being totally incapable of applying that to the real world which they live in?What it comes down to is legitimacy.This guy makes some good points.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKyNVHQbEu8
Normies are subservient cattle that genuinely love being driven by power-hungry leaders so long as they have the scientific titles necessary to back their authority
>>23825337The novel is a description of soviet communism.The people in power now are communists.
>>23825355spbp
>>23825355>>23825358since when brainlets post on this site?
>>23825358Dalrymple was an honest to god prophet, reading him is spooky as fuck.
Did anyone have media literacy lessons in grade school or high school? I don't mean the new Orwellian use of the term "media literacy" wherein engaging with anything critical toward establishment narratives means you've been duped into engaging in wrongthink but actual classes where you learned about media manipulation and maybe even watched some of Chomsky's Manufacturing Consent documentary. The basic through line of all of it was "you're constantly being manipulated and you shouldn't automatically trust anything especially if it bases itself on appealing to emotion and/or panders to simplified versions of your beliefs". Anyway, it's like the vast majority of people are either completely incapable of getting that message or will twist themselves in knots to not have to think about it.
>>23825337Pointing out the problem doesn't actually solve it.
>>23825546It's an important first step.
>>23825564The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, true, but Americans find themselves winded after only the first. I am not exempt, you are not exempt, and we all would burn rather than inconvenience ourselves. Our legacy will be a whine of discontent as we are all annihilated by our profound retardation.
Because some people use it as an instruction manual.>>23825343>>23825355>>23825546>>23825600All this.
>>23825600>The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single stepPeople who build ideas around cliches are part of the problem. Didn't read the rest.
>>23825619>Didn't read the rest.
>>23825337Orwell was a butthury faggot anarchist who knew nothing about communism and the west has been “authoritarian” long before this book was written. “Authoritarian” is a meaningless term.
>>23825337What are you talking about? Authoritarianism has decreaces in the west since the ww2
>>23825337>Of course, Orwell intended 1984 as a warning. But the warning defeats itself because of its underlying boundless despair. Orwell saw totalitarianism as bringing history to a standstill. Big Brother is invincible: ‘If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face – for ever.’ He projected the spectacle of the Great Purges on to the future, and he saw it fixed there for ever, because he was not capable of grasping the events realistically, in their complex historical context. To be sure, the events were highly ‘irrational'; but he who because of this treats them irrationally is very much like the psychiatrist whose mind becomes unhinged by dwelling too closely with insanity. 1984 is in effect not so much a warning as a piercing shriek announcing the advent of the Black Millennium, the Millennium of damnation.>The shriek, amplified by all the ‘mass-media’ of our time, has frightened millions of people. But it has not helped them to see more clearly the issues with which the world is grappling; it has not advanced their understanding. It has only increased and intensified the waves of panic and hate that run through the world and obfuscate innocent minds. 1984 has taught millions to look at the conflict between East and West in terms of black and white, and it has shown them a monster bogy and a monster scapegoat for all the ills that plague mankind.>At the onset of the atomic age, the world is living in a mood of Apocalyptic horror. That is why millions of people respond so passionately to the Apocalyptic vision of a novelist. The Apocalyptic atomic and hydrogen monsters, however, have not been let loose by Big Brother. The chief predicament of contemporary society is that it has not yet succeeded in adjusting its way of life and its social and political institutions to the prodigious advance of its technological knowledge. We do not know what has been the impact of the atomic and hydrogen bombs on the thoughts of millions in the East, where anguish and fear may be hidden behind the façade of a facile (or perhaps embarrassed?) official optimism. But it would be dangerous to blind ourselves to the fact that in the West millions of people may be inclined, in their anguish and fear, to flee from their own responsibility for mankind’s destiny and to vent their anger and despair on the giant Bogy-cum-Scapegoat which Orwell’s 1984 has done so much to place before their eyes.
>>23825337Actual answer? People don't read. The popularity of stuff like 1984 among normalfags comes from movies, the inferior media, which only portray the aesthetic of authoritarianism and can't or don't care to properly communicate the more subtle means of manipulation and tiranny explained in the novel like newspeak or doublethink. The very term orwellian is used in general discourse in an orwellian waySchools may help with this, but why they are inadequate to do so is a different matter entirely
>>23825337>why did a book fail to prevent real life from happeninglol anon
>>23825355>>23825358If only this was true
>>23825337if the truth comes from a book, then all you need to do is make them stop reading books
>>23825337Because the herd doesn't respond to forecasts and only begins its panicked stampede once it can hear the thunder, see the lightning and feel the first few drops of rain.
>>23825614Meme answer
>>23826500Even well read people don't see the parallels between 1984 and the real world
>>23826665They do, they just are not colossal whiny fags like you about it
>>23826674>they are just obedient sheep like the rest of normies
>>23826522
>>23825355We need a Stalin to purge all the institutions of power the way he removed the malignant Jewish presence from the USSR.
>>23826700See, this is exactly what I was talking about
>>23826754Nice passive aggressive reply lol
>>23825355lol
>>23825355This
>>23825546Identifying the problem is half the problem solved. Most people can't even identify the root problem in situations and spend the entire time mucking around aimlessly.
Because all the little people can do is impotently scream "this is just like 1984!", and the people in power don't care?
>>23827806>Identifying the problem is half the problem solved.It really isn't. When all else fails, "Power" will just end the discussion, and start locking people up, or beating them up. You can't argue a tyrant or a hired thug into having a conscience. It doesn't work like that.
No one fucking reads. 1984 is a prop rather than anything anyone draws any knowledge or understanding from. I'd be surprised if everyone ITT read the book.
>>23827899I read half of it, like most books in my collection.
>>23827899I read it when I was 14. It's not the most complicated book in the world.
>>23825337>MFW both the left and right claim Orwell as their own for their wax poetic ideas, even though he got about Dabbed on by the Falange in Spain
>>23827912t. smartest secret online underground book reading forum poster>>23827921Why haven't you stopped the Russian propaganda machine or even Hasan then? Curious.
>>23827939Because reading books is irrelevant, and people with power just do what they want. Stupid fucking question.
>>23827931Nah, I think the left have officially cancelled Orwell now. Apparently he was a "misogynist". That's all I hear from left leaning people.
>>23827944>knowledge is not powerSo you were filtered. Just say that. No need for a hissy fit.
>>23827948Knowledge is a very small component of power, if any part of it at all. Power is largely force + manipulation.
>>23825337>Why did dystopian fiction like 1984 fail to prevent the rise of authoritarianism in the west?There's a bunch of retarded answers in this thread, but I'll give it to you straight: people just don't care.
>>23827955Small groups all over the world throughout history manage to organize and leave their mark on the world, yet all you've got is a rationalization. It's okay to accept your shortcomings. Intelligence not for everyone, and that's okay. It's random anyways.
>>23827964Natural manipulators, or "small groups" who were secretly backed by power. Reading a book isn't getting you anywhere, Junior. Being naturally gifted at lying might.
>>23827966And you're not any of those things. Feels like we're saying the same thing the only difference is I pay no deference to preserving your ego, grandpa.
>>23827973Literally where did I say I was powerful?
>>23827976Exactly, all you've done is cry and make excuses after being jabbed.
>>23827981I don't understand what argument you think you're having, and I have things to do now.
>>23827984Like I said, filtered. Goodbye.
>>23827931Didn't they try to make a feminist rewrite of 1984 and Orwell foundation approved of it?
>>23827958/Thread
Dystopian fiction was all written by people who had huge blindspots towards the actual direction the West was going in. Race and immigration for example have played central roles in our progression towards dystopia, but writers of dystopian fiction were liberals on race and immigration and so were incapable of seeing the obvious issues there.
>>23828233>>23827958Everyday countless amount of electricity is wasted on people chirping at each other over ideology. People clearly care.
>>23828267Camp of the Saints saw the issue
>>23828270>People clearly careThey just shake their fists without doing anything
>>23825337anti-intellectualism has become the default mode of thinking. mention this book or any similar works to a normalfag and they'll say it's cringe or make some snide remark about how you should stop pretending to be smart. buy any classics and it'll be the same. you're supposed to read their propaganda and or engage with popular brainrot meme culture. that's your daily bread. nothing else.
>>23825337Is this AI voice of Whatiffafuafka?
>>23825564merely knowing is half the battle
>>23825337Funnily I just realized after watching this video that V for Vendatta was woke, anti-White (((Christianity))) slop.
>>23828944He has been making videos long before him
>>23829001Took you long enoughMoore is a hack
>>23825337The England is 1984 is 100% ethnically English. I'd take that over New Pakistan any day.Eric Blair's goal wasn't to stigmatize communism but to baselessly associate European nationalism with the worst aspects of Russian society. The message is, "if we British become too nationalistic and authoritarian, we'll end up as a shithole just like Russia." The boomers who grew up reading 1984 took this to heart and decided multiculturalism and international capitalism were the only way forward
>>23825343fpbpThis, so much this. The masses are literally cattle.
>>23829001Paganism will never make a comeback, Tristan.
>>23827946People care way too much about women’s feelings these days. And it’s killing civilization. Who cares what glorified fertilizer thinks.
>>23825343well thats a bit of an embellishment as to how it actually works. they dont really "love" or have a stance on their obediency. obeying is merely a subconcious reaction to percieved authority, they have no disposition toward it one way or the other. This is also why when questioned as to why they obey despite mounting evidence that these authority figures never had their best interests in mind, they will freeze and enter a catatonic state where they neurologically cannot respond or reason an answer.Its not some issue where they are possessed or own some inclination, it is literally just in their nature as any other domesticated organism
>>23825504Even Chomsky himself struggled to get it. He went on about how he's allowed to speak about the Military Industrial Complex because he's part of MIT and they train engineers for the system. But how fast would he be out of the limelight if he mentioned race and IQ? If he said bad things about women? If he took up a stance against third world immigration. He remained oblivious to the actual ideological power in the western world.
>>23825337People think they're too smart for books
>>23829949I dont think that's true. I don't think the "real power" in the world gives a shit about those opinions either. Elon owns Twitter and you can go say all those things there. Do you think elon is a real outsider?
>>23829971They'll likely crush Elon after the election and there's been lots of calls to regulate his twitter. Twitter's free speech policy is overstated as well. Jared Taylor still hasn't been allowed to return despite saying literally nothing wrong. They'll strategically allow the wignats back on but won't let on the clean cut, suit and tie people that speak out against the ideological wrongthink.
>>23829978Yeah. Or it's all a totally managed psychological operation that they're all in on directed at (you)
>>23829804BasedI wonder what future generations will think of this era where we gave women rights
>>23830458>weYou didn't give anyone anything, incel.
>>23831076Calm down simp
>>23829978We will see
>>23825337People on the internet think that real people are sheeple retards that don’t know anything. The truth is that most people know about all of this or at least a good amount of it (everyone knows about the Edward Snowden stuff for example) but everyone is just feels so powerless and so used to it they just let it happen and just deal with it.
>>23825355Why is the red scare still a thing? Are some of the people on this site just super old and still hold on to their retarded beliefs? It just seems pathetic to be actually scared of communism in this day and age
>>23832128>muh red scareMcCarthy was proven right and no one cares lmao
>>23832118Most people are just complicit and hope for an easy solutionThey are afraid to do what's truly necessary
>>23825355retard
>>23825355Americans will observe the total mercification of every aspect of human life while culture gets completely replaced by consumerism with their two very own eyes and will scream "Gommunism!" rather think something even mildly negative about their capitalist overlords. Every leader in history wished he had slaves this obedient.
