>Writes a paper for his asshole roommate>Writes a note and visits his teacher so the guy doesn't feel bad for flunking him>Invites out his dorms resident loser so the guy isn't lonely on the weekend>Extremely affectionate of his siblings,>Lends his dormmate a typewriter>The entire ducks in the winter monologue>The ending with the merry-go-round and PhoebeI don't get why people hate Holden so much, just because he's a bit angsty and cynical. He's honestly such a sweet and kindhearted boy, why does he draw so many readers ire?
I read that book in high school 20 years ago and I don't remember any of it
>>23929085>Extremely affectionate of his siblingsI'll say
People can't stand a young man with a heart of gold, my own life has taught me this well enough.
inb4 raped sister
I just want to give him a hug bros
>>23929086I remember that he rented some prostitute and cried because of it(some feminist undertone i assume) and i remember the museum and catching the kids stuff, otherwise,same. I remember Count of Monte Cristo much better
Innocence is hated. Probably a residual emotion of low-IQ people whose ancestors were too stupid to survive comfortably and thus placed a very low value on innocence, which was perhaps a trait of more intelligent, settled communities who refused to open their palisades to them, but to them was a liability. Random group of dysgenic retards emerge half-clothed from the bushes, armed with rudimentary bows and spears. They see a wooden wall with a shallow moat around it. There is the sound of lyres and harpstrings. Childrens' laughter may be heard in the distance. A thin line of smoke rises in several places. The gates are shut. Atop the gate is a guard relaxing. One of the thick-skinned retards strides up to the wall."Haha, don't fancy letting us in do you mate?""I'm afraid not!", replies the guard, in a kindly tone, already accustomed to this regular exchange."Ah come on mate, bloody freezing out 'ere it is""I'm sorry chap, no more room at the inn I'm afraid!" (this phrase already confirmed to have been in wide circulation prior to Joseph and Mary's entry to Bethlehem)"Oii you better let us in else we'll bloody smash you!" cries the stocky, fleshy-lipped, wonk-eyed uncle, briefly stepping from the main group and waving his cartoonishly large club."Now, now, come on, there's no need for that" says the still pleasant but now rather bored guard."Yeah 'e's right, leave it out mate," says the foremost of the party, still standing close to the gate and turning briefly to his clan. "Sorry about that mate, we ain't eaten in days. Ain't no boars around wat we can find. Wot you 'avin for dinner then, I swear I smell sumfing on the boil""Oh us, we're having pork tonight I believe. And potatoes, carrots...you know, all the rewards that agriculture can offer!"The lead retard looks down angrily, kicks the dirt. "Yeah, maybe mate. Anyway, see you yeah. You see any boar 'round ere then leave it cos it's ours!"The garishly dressed troupe sulks away into the bushes. The guard watches the rabid uncle smacking his squaw, who herself has the hang-jawed look of someone not quite there. She recoils with wide-eyed animal fear, but quickly joins him at his side again. The guard sighs, seeing the youngest members of the disappearing group marching sullenly behind their boorish parents.Finally, the guard turns away from the bleak muddy land surrounding the wall, and the thick forest ridden with mist, and the black rainclouds looming above it. Behind him, in stark contrast, he sees a haven of culture and civility. There are coloured ribbons stretching from home to home. There are patches of land where men tend their crops and groom their once-wild, now-tame animals. The children run from place to place in some kind of imaginative game, and their mothers stand in clean, modest clothing watching with pride swelling in their bosom. The guard, despite his long hours spent bearing the cold wind and rain atop the wall, realizes anew what his sacrifice was for.
>>23929193Kind of funny but in reality the agricultural ones would be the dysgenic, sickly people, and they would not access to potatoes unless they lived in South America (in which case they wouldn’t have carrots).Which would almost make more sense, because “innocent” people are often sickly, ugly nerds with bad teeth and skin.
>>23929205Nerds are intelligent, which is the key determinant. They are physically weaker because they can afford to be. Innocence is a luxury of intelligent communities.
>>23929211Not exactly sure what the relevance of this is to the above post
>>23929085People hate CitR because for most of them it was homework. That's all there is to it.
>>23929112Have faith. Life will eventually reward your good natured character by giving you a lasting feeling of contentment.
I remember the first real argument I had with my now ex girlfriend was about Holden Caufield. She and I had had many conversations about morality and what makes a good person so I thought we couldn't possibly disagree on this. Like you say, Holden thinks of almost nothing but how he can suffer to make others lives better. The story with the prostitute in particular was aligned with the principle of abstinence we believed in, including the subsequent bestial reaction from her pimp. I mean, it's totally irrational that he attacks and robs this kid for not taking advantage of a service he already paid for! What could've motivated something like that? Anyway, we were talking about books we had read in English class on a particularly long car ride and she said she h a t e d that book, AND Holden Cauffield. I didn't get it. No, she didn't think he raped his sister. The best answer she could give was that he seemed to think he was better than everyone else. You know, calling them phonies and stuff. I don't get it.
all i remember about this book is he's looking thru a window and he sees a woman spitting water on a man
>>23929546I too would break up if my girlfriend disliked Holden, the archetypal sensitive young man. After all, what does that leave me with?
>>23929193You must be the best writer of the whole psych ward. However, it is now time to take your medicine.
>>23929546I've many arguments with women (and even men) about Holden Caulfield and Catcher in the Rye as a whole. Nothing makes me irate more than people mischaracterizing Holden and missing the point of CitR. I suppose because the book was so important and fundamental to me as a youth, that I feel the need to vehemetly defend it and get so frustrated when people hate on it. Apropros to this is chicks saying "liking CitR is a redflag." Furious.
>>23929797the small canon of novels held in esteem by young men of today—that whole set of books has been given the “red flag” epithet. the purpose if this is to demoralize men into either A: not reading anything anymore or B: get in line for the latest feminist / victim slop being served up, and talk about *that* instead.that’s my take anyways.
>>23929797>>23929830Catcher is my favourite novel btw>inb4 shocker
>>23929162>and cried because of it(some feminist undertone i assume)My reading is that it's just another self-inflicted injury because he imagines her to be suffering in a way she just isn't. Reacting to her imagined wants as opposed to her real ones (getting paid for sex) both hurts him and pisses her off. Holden's central conflict is about his naive presumptions being sweet and making the world appear "better" but also hurting him and people around him because they're unrealistic. I don't think this is attempting to make a broader social comment, it's just another instance highlighting what's really at the root of his unhappiness.
>>23929833Why do you hate literature?
>>23930373only hate the phony stuff
Pseuds over identify with the Senex and therefore despise the Puer Aeternus.
>>23929193you are a good writer, anony
Every man should be forced to read the Bell Jar and every woman should be forced to read the Catcher in the Rye. Their capacity to feel empathy for the opposite sex should be evaluated based off their responses to their respective texts.
>>23930946I know it's very high-school reading, but I think every man should be forced to read the Bell Jar and every woman should be forced to read the Catcher in the Rye. Their capacity to feel empathy for the opposite sex should be evaluated based off their responses to their respective texts. Both books are very personal to their authors and stream-of-consciousness-y, so you get a read on the narrators worst and best attributes through that honesty. Holden and Plath I'd say are both fairly morally in line with most people, and a lot of their struggles are very specific to their sex. One's capacity to overcome differences in gender and personality and recognize their suffering and who they really are is a very commendable skill.
>>23930949I mean there's something to it, but even within the sex most readers don't get it. Men tend to think Holden's a little bitch or right about everyone, and women tend to think Esther's right about everyone or kind of a bitch. Not being able to unpack the fact that the main character isn't being held up as a paragon (even when it's pretty explicitly spelled out) is a whole other issue that I'd say most people have. Especially if you ask them to read it as teenagers.
>>23930526Based. Is this Jung? I only understand because I know latin
>>23929193Insanely based post
>>23929193Kind heartedness and innocence are appreciated in all aspects of society, with the exception of the odd sociopath, people with kind hearts are often protected by their community or are treated with reverence. The difference is, people don't like a whiny moralist fag who is always proclaiming their moral superiority.
>>23929106SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT
