What's your opinion of Dworkin's critique of pornography?
>>23976794I think Andrea Dworkin is an obese Jew who projects her insecurities on to men because most average guys do not find her sexually appealing
>>23976794
Andrea is becoming surprisingly popular with normie women (not lolcowfarm femcels) who buy bell hooks books but never read them
>radical feminist>Early LifeChecks out
>early lifeEvery time, it's uncanny
pornography is evil
Wait I thought we were supposed to support sex workers and heckin valid pornography stars?
>>23977264It's a business. Plus a lot of pornographers are Jewish and friends with Trump. Get over it
>>23977271What I said: evil.
>>23977271>businesses can't be evil
>>23977274You're right, pornography is evilBut we're human and need to masturbate and we enjoy erotic art, so it's much better to read erotic doujins that are entirely drawings>UH NO THAT'S HECKIN CREEPY TOO YIKESOh so we can't do...anything?
>>23977278>But we're human and need to masturbatekek
>>23977282I know your statue twitter faggots tell you we don't and nofap is totally legit bro, but it's bullshit
>>23977284>masturbation is a biological necessitykek
>>23977286>no actual refutationI accept your defeat
>ugly man writes about how much he hates women>ugly woman writes about how much she hates menEvery time
>>23976794We have femdom pornography now. It's still as dogshit as the normal one, but the domination thing is irrelevant.
>>23976794What does she say about pornography?
>>23976794When I want insight into the nature of men and men's lust there is nowhere I'd rather turn than to a fat, ugly jewish woman
>>23976809>>23976827>>23977266>>23977271>>23977374So do They want us to watch porn or not?
>>23977389(((They))) literally own the major porn sites. What do you think?
>>23976794I don't need to read it to know that most internet porn is masked sex trafficking, or that capitalism (which gave birth to the internet, with its obsession with communication (read: commodification), and thus also internet porn) is in itself masked human trafficking, and people (especially men) living in capitalist society are none the wiser to this, or to the fact that the society they grew up in has trained them since childhood to be narcissistic psychopaths who believe it's "normal" to watch porn and "normal" for women to get raped in the throat, anus, and vagina on camera "because they're getting paid." This whole society is fucking disgusting and retarded, but again, I didn't need to read a book to tell me that.
>>23977389You should watch it but feel bad about it.
Porn probably makes men more passive and not willing to approach women if anything. You kind of see that with zoomers and their extremely high virgin rates. Sure thats not the whole explanation obviously but i'm sure theres something to it.
>>23977394>>23977438>>23977457makes more sense. perhaps it strengthens the madonna-whore complex. of course that's (freud)
She is 100% right but I use pornography for sexual gratification, not ethical gratification. The first consideration is more primal than the second and they can only be reconciled within reason
>>23976794imagine if she had lived to see onlyfans. she would have gone completely mentalshe's probably right, of course. but i like tits
>>23976794/pol/ would think it's based if the author wasn't jewish.
>>23976794she's based and right.
>>23976794Women will literally look at a strip club, where men hand away tons of money to women with strict rules banning them from ever touching the women, and claim it's the men exploiting the women. Victim mentality on steroids.
>>23977457Unironically, it's abortion that has caused this. Consider it, all the men who pump and dump women would, in previous decades, have left her with a little brat that would most likely be an asshole like him. But once abortion became legal, women would just abort the kid when the father took off. This is why violent crime of all types has declined, delinquents are getting aborted.
>>23977531>boobas right next to King Leopold's Ghosthmmm
>>23976794I'm gay so I don't care what women think
>>23977825I wish I could be gay and hang out with my gf (male)
>>23977389>don't watch porn>JUST watch porn>pay me to produce porn>porn is ruining menOkay...
>>23977833*seduces you*
And this is why I've come to realize that Dworkin was most likely an actor used in destabilizing the radical feminist and second wave feminist movement. Make sure you get an obese unattractive woman to make outrageous claims so that everyone will understandably disregard her except for those who buy what she says. Any notion of women inherently being a second class due to how deep this is ingrained have gotten smeared and now men are convinced that women are leading society or that they're somehow elevated above everyone else. Beyond the most basics of education being more readily available and 'freedom' in the West, everything else is an illusion at the end of the day. We're all fucked but women are truly fucked unless they transcend all of this and few seem to ever escape this whirlpool. Pornography and hyper sexualization of every facet of your existence is enough to brow beat someone to the point that they end up coping and think that it's a choice they made and is actually a good thing. Most women cannot face the reality of this so they'd rather lie to themselves and everyone else. I'm not going to blame all men because many are just as oblivious but most men wouldn't care still even if they realized how deep this goes. All in all, Dworkin was a hack and so was most of the major feminist writers and thinkers. >>23977398Ditto.
there's porn before videos and random whores having a phones and porn after.now that random skanks have phones to make porn on the go, men are instantly becoming and glorifying submissive cuckold behaviors
>>23977937>now that random skanks have phones to make porn on the go, men are instantly becoming and glorifying submissive cuckold behaviorsWhy? I don't understand the causal link you are making.
>>23977876let them suffer for the cycle of pain and abuse they perpetuate, both men and women. I don't caret. realize how deep it goes
>>23976809Wrong and dumb. She was cute little punky dumpling, got married to a man, and was successful as a prostitute i.e. pretty enough to be paid to have sex. Her bodily transformation into something de-erotic and grotesque was a natural and willed consequence of her philosophy, not the cause. Like a monk or nun who dressess in robes that hide the sexual body. Feminist Jansenism, a spiritual holy war against eroticism.
>>23976794Yes porn is rape (sex unwilling). All it's victims are living in a paradox of free will, there by their own volition and slaves to their biological machinery. The dark lords sit in their ivory towers and laugh at the "resistance" society has presented them. A disgusting blob proto-woman, if this Dworkin is anti-porn then I choose life, I choose porn.
>>23978151>letting other people's physical appearance dictate your principlesTrite nonsense
>>23978127>a spiritual holy war against eroticismPorn is not eroticism. There is nothing erotic about nakedness. Eroticism is related to seduction, which requires a veil. It is spiritual. Porn is bestial; porn is the "spiritual holy war against eroticism."
I don't need a book to tell me watching porn makes me respect women less.I'm going to keep doing it because fuck women.
Gay porn. There, refuted.
>>23978454This wins most arguments
>>23978360Seduction requires an invitation not a veil. It requires a solicitation, an open inquiry, which is adequately opportunistic to appeal to the viewer. Porn becomes erotic when it appears to lift a veil, like all seductive things.
>>23978127> Due to poverty, Dworkin turned to prostitution for a period. [44]i mean, she could have got a job in a shop or something, like a normal personmaybe then she wouldn't have been quite so fucked up(even though it seems she was quite fucked up already)
>>23978904>refutes the chud argument that she's too ugly to criticize male desire>well akshually she should have been a girl scout and sold cookies door-to-doorwhy are chudlings like this?
>>23976794>A jew blaming goyim for Jewish tactics.I'm so tired bro.>>23978127>prostituteI'm losing hope.
>>23977531There's a person blocking that shelf pic, but it seems normiecore shit anyway
>>23977398Buy an ad Andrea.
>>23978454what? that doesn't refute shit
>>23977398You're giving agp pick-me. Feminists will never forget you're amab.
>>23978127You call that cute? You need glasses
>>23979102uhh you're a man though and it has nothing to do with feminism
>>23977389Believe it or not, Jews are not a hivemind. The ones that own porn related companies 100% want you to watch porn and the ones that don't are usually indifferent
>>23976794Dworkin thinks all sex is rape. I would never read a book by someone who hates men that much.
>>23979338She’s right but it is the woman raping the man
>>23979338Is she wrong?
>>23978127That looks like some ugly teenage boy from 1980s Brooklyn. I think you might be gay.
>>23977398How do you explain the hordes of couples producing amateur porn, who genuinely enjoy those things (not rape) and are into each other?
>>23979397>genuinely enjoy
>>23977531>imagine if she had lived to have onlyfansbros my NNN might be over
>>23979397>How do you explain this thing that you're clearly not talking about?
>>23977289Im nta but is it actually a necessity? I know if you don't you wet dream but do you actually need to?
>>23979388that statement is so nonsensical i don't even know where to begin
>>23979423If it's not porn then what is it?
>>23979456Studio porn is obviously what that post was referring to. What two random people do in private and decide to upload to the internet is completely unrelated to the issues that post is discussing.
>>23979470>Argue with a radfem>See the goalposts fly!It's all so tiring...
>>23979388she gets it.
>>23976827>>23977259The fact that you even had to check. You are like little children, the antisemitism is still young in you.
>>23979357based
>>23979280You got clocked.
>>23979643>"because she's getting paid">thinks this is in reference to couples making amateur porn for funYour reading comprehension is extremely poor. Work on that before trying to argue.
>>23979470Not really, since now the sexualization of women online is near omnipresent and indeed, quite literally to a pornographic level, many women give into it. It's less about what is in a particular OF video though, than it is about the internet, social media (tiktok), their algorithms and display (vertical videos, extreme faciality, facilitating and neat approximating pov porn, which in turn looks more and more like social media) - about the internet, I say, as a mass groomer.
>>23979325Stop being rational
>>23976794>No mention of the Jews in her critique of pornographyShe is not right
>>23976794>DworkinKek
>>23978882The veil is the invitation. Nakedness is not the invitation. Seduction only happens when there is a hint of mystery involved (hence why the pioneer of modern day pick-up nicknamed himself Mystery and based his approach precisely on this).>>23980021Correct. Byung-Chul Han writes about this. Not only women, but all of Earth, is becoming pornographized due to digital technology, which as a form of technology is merely the expression of neoliberalism and its inherent narcissism. Capitalism demands speed and ease of communication, which is destroying the art of narration, and eroticism, beauty, and contemplation are dying as a result.
As a guy, imagine walking into a bookstore to find some good book porn. You sneakily slink over to the romance novels because nothing is labeled:->'THIS IS WHERE THE PORNO TEXT IS!!' <-Jeeze, you didn't realize how embarrassing going into a bookstore was until now.Especially since that one tiktok (the one with the dancing catgirl) explained that everything in here is filled with depraved fantasy that of only the most wild of imaginations can think of.You pick a book up and start to read the back of the cover. You hear a sniffling noise and as you look up, you see a girl looking at you with a raised eyebrown. You look back to see what you are holding and it's some homo erotica text filling your eyeballs and brainYou quickly turn around to the woman to explain that things aren't what they look like.They're gone. Your one chance in your entire life at getting sweet pussy and it's gone forever.Now you're standing in the middle of the homo erotic book isle in the 'Books for Women' Store with the gayest text you've seen in your life in your hands.
>>23978127>She was cuteShe looks like a cuban teenage male prostitute, you faglord.>pretty enough to be paid to have sexGo find the shittiest part of the nearest city to you and tell me how "pretty" the average prostitute is, especially in america where it's illegal (beggars can't be choosers and all that).>>23977457People were having the most sex in the 60's during the sexual revolution, and during this time porn was widely available, especially in the scandi countries.
>>23980157>The veil is the invitation. Nakedness is not the invitationIt's clear you are only interested in a certain type of seduction, but this idea you can erase what others are seduced by (including all those ancient myths) is something else. It's not typical to need a signal that mixed, because most people are okay with just the invitation, not the mystery. And needing the extra layer suggests you're uncomfortable with not needing it to be seduced— which doesn't say great things about what most would consider the actual object of affection.
>>23979817The original post was clearly referring to couples doing only fans, et cetera, you absolute retard.
just mad she was fat and ugly and couldnt get the bag. ugly hoes stay mad
>>23976794Never read her work nor do I have an interest.Why should I be interested in her takes anon?
>>23979388Is contempt bad?Does she really want to explore the truth of women as contemptible beings?
>>23977398This would be really succinct were it not for the fact that 1 in 3 porn site visitors were female who watch violent and degrading porn more than men do (often a 100% increase/twice as commonly searched for).If anything it'd be the perfect material for a book but you won't ever get that seriously discussed because plebs can only into superficiality like the post above describes. At most you will get a retarded retort on how women only consume so much violenceslop because it's men's fault.
>>23980157>Capitalism demands speed and ease of communicationWould anticapitalism therefore require slow, tortuous communication? Should we go back to the pony express or is that still too fast?
>>23980157Capitalism demands nothing, all it does is dismantle cultural fictions we've hypocritically told each other to make ourselves look better than just another animal.>All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind.
>>23980693>because it's men's fault.The proper term is "The Patriarchy". Why are most elected officials men despite women voting in much greater proportion than men? The Patriarchy. Why are women a measly 3% of contributors to open source software projects despite being 50% of employed software engineers? The Patriarchy. Actually, I will stop myself there before I rile myself up and start going into all the execrable family court stuff that radfems themselves pushed for and then blame on The Patriarchy, but, regardless, the answer is always The Patriarchy.
>>23980693This is such bullshit lmao. How the fuck are you even supposed to account for the 'women' on pornsites? Nobody registers on it which is what that one study implied because it was on pornhub. It's funny when men try to turn it around on women as if they aren't the majority of degenerates who commit sex crimes. I'm tired.
>>23980693Men and women both watch violent and degrading porn because their passions override their reason and morality. Things aren't just suddenly good because women decide to do them. That idea results from feminist conditioning.
>>23980421It clearly wasn't. But you know that already.>>23980693>1 in 3 porn site visitors were female who watch violent and degrading porn more than men doThis isn't a verifiable statistic, and porn site visitors aren't representative of either sex. Nonetheless, a significant amount of porn is masked sex trafficking. This has been investigated. Capitalism, meanwhile, is masked human trafficking — and this can be easily determined through reason and logic.>>23980708>Would anticapitalism therefore require slow, tortuous communication?Yes. Precisely the kind of communication that narcissists hate, in other words. Capitalism is inherently narcissistic; it wants to eliminate all "otherness," which is inherently experienced as resistance and pain. It wants everything to become a commodity, since commodities don't offer any resistance. The capitalist would like even other human beings to be commodities. Porn expresses this inherent capitalism and you don't need to look very hard to see it, either.>>23981014Capitalism demands that otherness be suppressed because otherness, since it offers resistance, makes it difficult to increase capital. Capitalism demands globalism and the global commodification and pornographication of all life on Earth. Defenders of porn and those who excessively masturbate to porn are the sex organs of capitalism. They're subhuman.
>>23981651>Porn expresses this inherent narcissism of capitalism*
>>23981335>t. Doesnt know about google analytics and other data scouring centres that get used by every major company on earthZoomer? The average normie has his data collected, interpreted and used constantly. It's not 100% accurate but it gets up there. There's years of data on you which gets checked and crossreferenced to build a profile on you and it gets shared with companies who invest heavily in wanting to know who their consumers are. How many lingerie ads did you get lately? My bad, you got classed as a tranny so you do get those ads. You are just illiterate on the subject. >>23981552Never implied it suddenly being good or otherwise. Just wanted to bring up how women somehow yearn for the violently erotic and blase. It's not just young women doing research or memeing themselves into liking it because of their boyfriends, almost every female agegroup consumes more bdsm/rough sex/noncon sexual material than men do. I only brought it up to dissuade anyone from earnestly thinking it's men who solely, or as frequently, consume that kind of porn. Did you know there's female only shibari exhibitions? >>23981651>This isn't a verifiable statistic, and porn site visitors aren't representative of either sex. Damn, tech illiterati coming out of the woodworks with this one. But sure, you may pretend the data doesn't exist and that there isn't an increase in porn viewership under women. That there are no entire markets dedicated to their sexual interests outside of the porn industry. Laughable honestly.>Nonetheless, a significant amount of porn is masked sex traffickingNever said otherwise.Anyway, I wouldn't expect the likes of Dworkin and her ilk to ever honestly engage with the topic at hand. Not that it is that hard to understand if you really put your mind to it. >>23981267I agree anon :(
>>23981335Also>Nobody registers on it which is what that one study implied because it was on pornhub. You never read (you can't) those reviews because they don't imply that at all. They clearly state where they get their sources from and how they use google analytics.Not just tech illiterate, you are illiterate in general. The rest is histrionics as a lazy escape hatch. Booooooring!
>>23981764>But sure, you may pretend the data doesn't exist and that there isn't an increase in porn viewership under women.I'm not pretending it doesn't exist — your inference from the data is simply invalid.
>ITT: Loonies still defending Dworkins lunacy.>In b4 "all heterosexual sex is rape!"like pottery, m'lads, like pottery.
>>23981819The thread's not about Dworkin anymore. Keep up.
>>23981799>Says nothing I didn't expect more than that. But like I said, you are allowed to pretend the data (close to a billion unique users monthly btw) doesn't point towards trends and desires observable in other sectors as well.There's nothing else I can tell you, obviously so, so have a good one!Time for me to listen to a female rapper(90% female audience) on cocksucking till her eyes well up with tears.
>>23976794ancient fat dyke
>>23978127she looks like that guy who gets shot in rebel without a cause
>>23981839You seem desperate to divert the conversation from the points being made, while saying nothing of value yourself. I wonder why that is.
>>23981819the main character of this thread is the capitalism is human trafficking tranny keep up
>>23981860>I reply to offtopic shenanigans mentioned in >>23977398 (its le capitalism)>Mention how it is indeed superficial and that I wish dworkin and co would talk about this inherent drive found in women to consume rough sex content >>23980693>That isn't verifiable and it doesn't mean anything because what porn users watch doesn't show what genders find sexually attractive >>23981651Funny how you gotta ignore this then btw>the fact that the society they grew up in has trained them since childhood to be narcissistic psychopaths who believe it's "normal" to watch porn and "normal" for women to get raped in the throat, anus, and vagina on camera "because they're getting paid." This whole society is fucking disgusting and retarded, but again, I didn't need to read a book to tell me that.>>23977398Anyway, to continue.>I say how it is verifiable and how you can see this desire on female behalf in other facets of life. >>23981764>>>23981799>Uhmm okay it exists but you are wrong The convo ended there desu, we are just going in circles, as I predicted. >>23981860>No U are divertingAnd then here is the projecting as a last effort pilpul attempt. So once again, you may believe what you want, if you ignore the data and trends and female behavior online and irl. I don't know why you gotta be so angry about being told otherwise though. Pssht, accusing others of diverting when this convo started with a diversion>I NEEED to talk about capitalism in a thread about dworkin's critique on porno and porn usersLaughable.
>>23981890>inherent driveThis is the inference you're making that's invalid. Your data, even if it's accurate, does not represent all of women, only women who visit porn sites. It represents something else other than women, especially since some men also share in it — and I've already explained what (capitalism).I don't trust you. You argue in bad faith and avoid addressing points made. This is always an indication that the person on the other end is subhuman filth. This long, rambling post is a further testament to this. Who cares about any of this? How does your tirade relate at all to the conversation?
>>23981917>More deflection>More derailing>More pilpul>More projection>More going around in circles>More No Uhttps://youtu.be/e-Zcz9J1UOs?si=7eITkEuI2Gxon6xc
>>23981968
>>23979388that doesnt make any sense, whats the context of her saying that? I feel like sex is the exact opposite of what she said in that quote if you genuinely love the person you're having sex with. It's like you love someone so much that you want to get as close to them as physically possible, so much so that you are literally inside of them and becoming one with them until you cum and make a baby, and the child is both symbolically and actually the two of you combined into one person
>>23982012The sex she's referring to can be found in select forms of porn. She was obviously obsessed / traumatized by that kind and couldn't imagine there being anything else.
>>23981861>troon for saying capitalism exploits peoplenta but you're a retard
>>23982060its a single identifiable poster with a distinct transgender typing style pay attention
>>23982064>oh god I LOVE sucking corporate cock
