I just finished Chapter 6 of Shadow of the Torturer, I’m completely immersed. It feels like I’m actually in Urth looking around, I literally saw the library in chapter 6 like I was in Elden Ring or something. So far it’s 10/10 for me, going to read probably 2-3 more chapters today.That being said, I wish there was a place for uneducated adults like me to talk about the books we are reading. Shadow of the Torturer is literally my first book I’m reading as an adult and for enjoyment, would be nice to shoot the shit with people like me instead of everything having to be some mega mind academic argument.
Most people are similar to you anon, just that there's a lot of brainlets here that think the only books worth reading are nonfic and larp at actually reading. I hate to say but reddit is probably a better place for actually discussing books and not just jacking yourself off.But this looks interesting anon, I will add it to my list of books to pick up. I could go for some immersion.
>>23977341I'm glad you like the book. Nothing beats the first reading of BotNS. You'll be a changed man once you finish the entire series.
>>23977341I feel like I am the only one who disliked the first book. I liked the rest of BOTNS a lot however.
>like I was in Elden Ring or something.but BOTNS is good
>>23977448I’m hooked, never thought I would say that about a book. This is my cup of tea, Gene Wolfe got me reading.>>23977486I think it’s better than Elden Ring world in every way, so far to me it feels like a destroyed and ruined super advanced civilization that collapsed completely. And now the people of Urth have made it back up to medieval type of civilization, I’m hooked. Keep in mind I’m only 6 chapters in now.A couple of things, finding out the moon shines green light because it has been cultivated with a massive forest was mind blowing, climbing out of the muddy tunnel hole into the Atrium of time was mind candy, and meeting the blind Curator and walking the dark library by candlelight was an HD movie playing in my brain.
>>23977341enjoy the journey, anon. on this board you'll get a lot of shitposting pseuds about wolfe so what the other anon said about reddit is probably correct. gene wolfe is without a doubt one of the best writers of our time.
>>23977341>shadow and clawI have the same exact edition of that book. Dont miss the introduction though: worlbuilding is a skill, author left puzzle pieces and reader have to form them into one puzzle
>>23977341How much is torture described or suggested in these books? I am sexually excited by torture so this is relevant information. Also I know the author was Catholic so I’m sorry for using his book for salacious purposes (although I hear it’s full of chad wish fulfilment fantasies) but at the same time CS Lewis was a sadomasochist so….
>>23977661I can see that, but I’m a new reader and the introduction actually helped me realize it’s a journey that I’m along for and to pick up the gems along the way for future use.>>23977667I’ve only read 6 chapters now but I haven’t came across anything like that yet, except maybe for Torturer Apprentices examining a fresh lower leg de-gloving as a method of torture.
>>23977676Thanks for the info anon
>falling for babby's first pseud-trapYou were never meant to make it
>>23977483I didn't like the first two books, but the third one, oh boy...>>23977548The world is only medieval for the poor and uneducated masses. You'll see how modern it is for nobles who see themselves as protagonists of history.Atrium of time scene is my favorite one in the entire series. Valeria is the best girl!>>23977667OP, do not read. Tortureanon, do read: There's a pseudo-Catholic festival all about decapitating a woman for st. Catherine's day. There's a torture device that makes you want to an hero, there's off-screen sexual toeture involving medieval dildos, there's a nice male to female ratio of people who get executed by the MC. There's also rape. >>23977780What's next for OP? Blood Meridian? Dubliners? Catcher in the Rye? American Psycho? Dune? Call of the Crocodile? Place your bets.
>>23977831Great, thanks for the information anon. It has moved up the hierarchy of my to-read list. Of course I am also interested in the literary and theological elements. What is the sex ratio of executions...? I like men too...
>>23977839 More women get tortured, equal amount gets executed.
>>23977341Shadow is difficult to talk about for reasons you’ll better understand as the series progresses. Everything you’ll be excited to discuss now won’t be nearly as interesting as what you can discuss after reading urth. As a warning though, don’t do any research on your own because this is a series best enjoyed as open minded as possible. The only thing I’ll warn you about in regards to the story is that, while you may assume some time is wasted with pointless pondering or discussions, it never is. Gene is a master at hiding details in plain sight, and the first dozen chapters of shadow is him laughing at readers returning from books 4/5 with brazen spoilers and story beats you’ll certainly miss. One of the few series where people running podcasts like the rereading Wolfe one are worth it
>>23977831OP here, I think I’m going to stick with this Botns series completely as I’m enjoying it so much. But I have looked into Blood Meridian after reading your post, it seems very interesting and I loved the movie “The Road” and I guess that’s from the same writer originally.>>23977854Thanks for the input, I haven’t done any research or read any of the blacked out spoilers above as I don’t want to ruin this experience. This is my first actual book for enjoyment in adulthood, I actually like the pace and detail a lot. I’m going at this as if the journey is the payoff, honestly I think that’s why I’m so immersed and enjoying it so much.I’ve just now finished chapters 7-8, very good stuff. Severian is falling for this women prisoner who is an inner circle concubine of the Autarch, the master torturer saw it coming so he planned Roche who is now a Journeyman to take Severian to fuck some whores and get it out of his system. They are on the way to the whores now, traveling through snow by plain horse drawn carriage. I’ll maintain my rating of this book so far at 10/10, very immersive and based.
What's with all the BotNS posting all of a sudden? Must be something in the stars I guess. I, too, am reading Shadow of the Torturer (on chapter XII right now).
>>23978100It's been the most famous sci-fi book series on /lit/ for God knows hoe long. I am very sad that I first heard of Gene Wolfe when he died. I'm not sure if he got a sticky or not, but it was a very active thread.
>>23977548>A couple of things,gene has a way, like no other author, to mystify me while reading his stories. botns and wizard knight feel like dreams to me.
Just finished Urth and I immediately bought Soldier of the Mist. I can't wait to re-read the first 4 volumes but I'll give it a few months.
>>23978185I still experience visual flashbacks to BotNs scenes, especially from the third book. How does he do it?
>>23978598I’ve read a bit of soldier, but it’s probably the least enjoyable of his books I’ve read. Unlike the solar cycle books, you have to keep up with dozens of names for single characters and have a decent knowledge of Greek myth to understand what the characters are even doing. Personally I dropped it to start on long sun. I hear wizard knight is great to so I’ll probably read it as a break between long and short suns
>>23977341This book is like if in the Lion King there's a scene where Simba can suddenly control plants with his mind, it's never explained, and then never mentioned again. Then as soon as he goes to face Scar, the book ends. Mysterious for the sake of it with no substance.
>>23978850Thanks for the negative feedback, but as a new reader my rating remains at 10/10. Loving this book, can’t wait to read chapters 9-10 tonight when my home is quiet. Since I picked up this book I’ve been thinking about it multiple times throughout the day, just such a rich and immersive world, story telling.
>>23978850You’re just wrong lmao. Either you never reread the og 4 or never read urth. There’s only minor elements left open, but theyre never left completely up to interpretation, they just have multiple possible explanations. Severian is a flawed narrator for reasons the books go into and there’s some things he either doesn’t connect or misunderstands, but it doesn’t mean that the books don’t give you an answer for them
>>23978850That's not true at all
>>23979154>>23979181Why are wolfefags always so defensive? His puzzle-as-substance schtick is essentially worthless. Layers and layers peel away to reveal nothing. At some point under all the illusion and allusion you need to say something meaningful.
>>23979215>under all the illusion and allusion you need to say something meaningful.If you couldn't discern meaning in what his work reveals it's a you problem. Read more, and think more
>>23977341it's a good series but you've read the best part of the series, the first half of the first book is the highlight, though the next two books are very good
>>23979215“Why are you so defensive, just because I clearly didn’t read the books with any effort put into it, that doesn’t mean I’m wrong for not getting anything out of them”. Just because a book requires some minimal effort to piece together the entire plot despite most elements being plainly told to you doesn’t mean that there’s nothing going on beneath the surface. The ending of book 4 and all of urth are explicitly there to give you the final puzzle pieces.
>>23979223i feel like sword of the lictor is overwhelmingly the favorite among discussions. just a nonstop picaresque hero journey from start to finish. it's hard for me to pick a favorite since each book has a section that feels special to me.
>>23979222>>23979236Plot is not substance.
>>23979236these anons you respond to never seem to give examples either. it's like j.g. keely getting btfo in the old lit threads because he couldn't read subtext.
>>23979239
>>23977341It's a good serie, but I unironically prefer Drizzt saga or The Prince of Nothing
OP here, I’d like to point the arguing anons to the second paragraph of my original post. Ok, that is all.
>>23977341op, if you fall under the spell of the solar cycle when finishing citadel of the autarch, i recommend not reading urth of the new sun until you get through long and short sun books.
>>23979303I think I’ll have to see how things go, my plan was to finish Shadow & Claw and order Sword & Citadel. After I’m done with that was going to finish the series with The Urth of the new sun, I figured since people say this series is good for multiple reads I’d add in the other books on a second read through down the road.
>>23979312most people do read urth after citadel; i did and it has some of my favorite moments in the series, but after reading long/short suns, urth is a great book end.
>>23979316Thanks for the input, I’ll definitely keep that in mind. I’m a new reader and taking this as a journey, not looking for a payoff. Feels so good reading this way, I’m completely wrapped up in the details of Urth and the adventure of Severian. I’m along for the ride!
>>23977341Glad you're enjoying it OP. I just recently finished Citadel and loved the series, but it took most of book 1 before it really clicked with me. I eagerly anticipate re-reading from the start sometime next year to catch details I missed.My only recommendation is that if a chapter doesn't make sense to you, go back over it or take note of what happens, because it'll likely become important later.
>>23979342So far I’ve been reading slowly, and if a paragraph doesn’t click I don’t delay and read it again slower and it has worked every time. So far everything has been smooth sailing, also at the end of a chapter I go to the WolfeWiki summary section and read the summary for the chapter I just finished. It gives a very short summary of every chapter, I am very careful to scroll slowly as not to allow my eyes a glimpse at upcoming chapters summaries.
>>23977341I'm starting the book as well. Currently at chapter 5. Is it normal to stop every page to look up the make-up words or should I just go through them? I'm an ESL so I'm not sure whether a word is archaic or make-up.
>>23979383OP here, I wouldn’t stop as I noticed it disrupts the flow. And also if you read slow and smooth like I’m doing, you will notice the placement of the words in the world kind of imply the meaning. Also I recommend doing what I am and go to the WolfeWiki summary section after finishing a chapter and read its summary, just be very careful scrolling down as not to accidentally view the next chapter summary. Keep in mind that I am a new adult reader, hopefully a more experienced reader can chime in also to help you out.
>>23979383English is my first language and there were a lot of archaic words I didn't know. Mostly you can get the gist of them from context, but if you look them up you can sometimes get clued in on the symbolism of the story or some amount of foreshadowing.
>>23979383There used to be a foreword about this, basically the book itself is supposed to be a text found by Wolfe, and he places words that apply best as a translation. Most of those archaic words are used to fill in concepts. Later he uses a Roman phrase referring to a horse to refer to beast used in the same way as horses, but the actual animal he’s referring to is avian/reptilian. The books never require you to know what these phrases are referring to, and in a vast majority of cases you can just ignore the phrase and assume what they’re talking about from context clues
>>23977341I got entire trilogy for really cheap but never touched it. Is it like Dune or more like Roger Zelazny?
>>23979885It’s sorta duneish at times but it’s more unique(at least from the books I’ve read). It’s written from the perspective of someone with photographic memory writing a biography with a poor understanding of the significance of many things. He remembers the memory as he first experiences it so he can’t visualize a tree in a memory that he never focused on. A dune comparison is good though because it’s set on a world where technology had stagnated. You have hyperadvanced technology appearing in a world that’s mostly medieval
>>23979154I did not read the 5th. I could tell it was not worth my time when I could be reading great literature.
OP here, just binged chapters 9, 10, and 11 in my quiet dark home. Boy oh boy was there a lot of mind candy in these three chapters, entering the snow covered House Azure and fucking a whore that turned out to be a cheap knockoff of Thecla. Spending the next year bringing flowers to the real Thecla, reading with her, and basically slowly being seduced. But the best so far was the Holy Katherine feast, literally saw the whole place in HD. The ornamented spiked wheel and the beheading simulating contraption, the drunken dream of a mint condition chapel and visitation from an old dead master torturer. Tell you what, being taken through Urth and Severians journey is a top tier experience. I’m glad I chose Botns as my first dive into reading as an adult for enjoyment, my rating remains 10/10. I will however probably stop my updates, I don’t want to make a habit of ritual posting after every reading session. Ok, that is all.
>>23979945> I will however probably stop my updatesplease don't. it's very cool to hear about a new person's experience with this work.
I just recently finished this series, and it's hard to talk about without spoilers, but I will say that I greatly enjoy the way that Severian describes technology that he's unfamiliar with.
I wish I could get a fucking 1 volume version for cheaper. Why was that only ever printed in the 90s
>>23980171as convenient as it is, it's a massive book and uncomfortable to read from unless you're sitting at a desk. pages are quite thin as well.
>>23980137Maybe I’ll make an update post again tonight, I plan on reading 3 more chapters when everything quiets down.>>23980171I saw it on Amazon for $65.
>>23979238yeah 3 is great, pure action throughout. The Citadel and Severian's lore is just peak comfy althoughstbeitever
OP here, I have a quick question. I’m having trouble remembering the characters names in my mind when I’m not reading, when my nose is in the book I can instantly recognize the characters by name and pinpoint where I met them and where they fit in the story. But when I’m not reading, like just going about my day. I’m having major trouble mentally recollecting the characters names when I’m thinking about Shadow of the torturer. Is this normal?
>>23981571maybe start taking notes. wolfe writes in a style meant for rereading anyways so it'll be nice to come back to something marked. once you get to the end you will be baffled how many spoilers were right there on the page.
>>23981571>and where they fit in the story
>>23981580I’m seeing everything with a mental HD picture, it’s amazing. I know and understand all the characters and what’s going on, I just finished chapter 11 last night. It’s just today when I was busy with life, I began thinking of Shadow of the torturer and realized I could only mentally recollect “Severian”, “Urth”. It’s weird because during reading I instantly recognize the names and everything I’ve read about them, I guess you’re right and I should probably take notes. Think I will write down the character names I’ve come across so far on one sheet of paper, and have a glance at it a few times during my days.
>>23977341it gets worse when he leaves the citadel
>>23977341Love these books, but I wish I hadn't read Urth. It soured the experience a bit
>>23981694Did you like Holy Katherine’s Feast? I finished chapter 11 last night and have been thinking of it all day. Also, did you have trouble recollecting character names in your mind when you weren’t reading?
>>23981704swear to god I started reading the book on saint catherines day.
>>23981878Wow, very cool. I’m a Catholic, this is my first book. I hope you enjoy, I am.
I've got Sword & Citadel, along with Urth of the New Sun on their way. I'm feeling good about this book, man.
>>23981922You are doing what I’m planning on doing, tonight I read 3 more chapters. I wait for like 12-2am when my home is dead quiet, even unplug my router so I don’t hear the fan. I’m going to go to Walmart and look into a very dim reading light, I’d like to drop the brightness 60% during my reading sessions for immersion.
>>23981922>Urth of the New SunRead it at your own peril, but if you hate it remember the publisher forced him to write it.
>>23981953I see people being negative about urth a lot and I never really got it. I’ll admit the opening was a bit boring but I don’t believe any of the answers it gives diminishes the previous books in any way. It’s just different and doesn’t pretend to be a direct sequel like the previous books
I’m about to read my book!
>>23979394>>23979822>>23979876Thank bros.
If you like gene wolfe, try to get latro in the mist (2 books omnibus version), head of cerberus, peace, and wolfe at the door (his latest release), those are his essentials, once you like him TOTALLY, then read the rest of long sun and short stories collection. Urth is mid, it was designed to 'wrap' everything up and imo doesn't hold the same literary quality as first book of the new sun.Also avoid his isekai story, its not that good imo
>>23982231Thanks for the input, I am loving this book. I’m a brand new adult reader, completely hooked.Just binged chapters 12, 13, 14, and 15. I was just thrown a major curveball and my entire place in Urth just completely changed, Severians journey seems to just have started and opened up completely. I know there is another reader in this thread now that is new to Botns just like me, so I’m going to make sure that I don’t spoil things from here on out.But damn, I started reading this night thinking I would only read 2 chapters but ended up reading 4. Couldn’t stop, the turn of events and the immersion had me seeing everything HD and locked in like a tractor beam. I’m a newb but this Gene Wolfe has to be goated, my rating so far remains a complete 10/10.
>>23982274Next you're gonna read Philip K. Dick, and your mind will REALLY be blown.
>>23982294Just looked him up and added to my list, seems amazing and I’ve seen a lot of the movies I saw attributed to him. My list so far is Gene Wolfe, Cormac McCarthy, Philip K. Dick. I won’t be adding anyone else to my list for a very long time, I’m actually sticking strictly to Gene Wolfe who I think is goated until I’m done with Botns.
Spoiler alert! Severian has sex with a giant monkey named Pubarb in the third book and he becomes an annoying side character that never leaves.
