>John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Amen.
>>23979985Amen
>>23979985Amen.
Why?
>>23980108I'll answer this in earnest even though I'm not that well-versed in theology.Adam sinned, and since he was the steward of Creation, he brought the world down with him. Now sin can be understood as a corruption that affects the world and all that is within it, as a mechanical consequence of the Fall; we aren't inheritors of Adam's guilt, but we inherit the fallen state of the world.God wanted to redeem the world in spite of Adam's error, and to do so, He had to sacrifice Himself so that we could be saved (see the paschal lamb); however, in order to establish a new covenant between humanity and Him, he had to "bridge" (my priest doesn't like this term since it implies a two-way road but I haven't found a better one) man and divinity, this is why Christ had to become incarnate. The entirety of the events of the Old Testament are essentially God putting the plan for His incarnation in motion, and Christ, being born from a sinless woman and Himself being sinless throughout His own life as a man, could then redeem the world through his passion.God brings us back to Him through Christ. Adam's error has allowed death and decay to enter the world, essentially damning it, but the new covenant is the way out. Although our souls, due to our fallenness, have a propensity towards sin, and so, none of us deserve to enter the Kingdom, all things are made possible through Christ.
I'm an agnostic theist but I can't help feeling that there's a pretty good chance that Trump (or at the very least someone on his side) is the Anti-Christ and we're entering the End Times
>>23980182>I'm an agnostic theistWhy?
>>23979985Didn't Jesus say that he only came for the lost sheep of the house of Israel? It's kind of ridiculous to suppose that everyone had to follow the same religion on earth
>>23980612No, Christianity is explicitly meant for everyone. Jesus says it, Paul says it, John even sees it in Revelation.
>another gentile loving the jew fictionyep the world will not heal for another 1000 yearsseriously what would it take for the gentile golems to stop their devotion to jews?
>>23980625more anime pfps
>>23980613Then the world has been configured in a really retarded way. You'd think the "one true faith" wouldn't be located in one spot without any primary sources to back it up
>>23980713It has been radiating out ever since. Missionary work and the global dissemination of information has made it possible for everyone to encounter the truth of Christ in one way or another. Primary sources abound in the form of Scripture and Tradition, which again have been wholly spread around the world multiple times over. You sound very confused. I pray that God will seal your heart and dispel the darkness within.
I simply feel no emotional resonance with Christ and this is all very HECKIN CHUNGUS KEANU to me.
>>23980625You have no love.
>>23980731So we have the original autographs of the gospels???
>>23979985Amen. God bless."It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest I go to than I have ever known."Not from the Bible but I think it's a beautiful way of looking at life and what comes after.
>>23980625Honest question: if the one true God were to come down in person and he happened to be Asian, would you reject Him?>>23980182I've thought of this, too, but there's a few things that make me think otherwise. For one, Trump has talked positively about Jesus. Whether or not you think it was phony or politically motivated doesn't change the fact that the antichrist will do everything in his power to seperate people from Christ.That being said, he's becoming a bit too beloved worldwide, which is a warning bell, imo. Plus he's all in on Israel
I'm reading the new testament at the moment and I have to be honest with you, it seems awfully ridiculous to me that people still believe in this great myth during modern times.There is a verse where a Gentile woman begs Jesus for his help in exorcising a demon from her daughter. Jesus says he cannot feed dogs before the children have eaten (dogs being non Jews and children being Israelites). The woman meekly responds that even dogs eat crumbs from the children's table. Jesus is impressed by this pathetic and desperate response, so decides to remove the demon from her daughter. Christianity was clearly just a sect of Judaism that was expanded when the Christians spread into Europe. The fact people live their lives by these teachings today as if they were cast iron truth is astounding!
>>23980857We have the words that God inspired, yes."Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."- Matthew 24:35"Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."- Proverbs 30:5-6"Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever."- Psalm 119:160
>>23980895In Isaiah 41:14, the Lord also called Jacob a worm.
I've been attending a parish for a while now and I still can't really determine if the priest is overly ecumenist or not.I asked him if he was, and his response was along the lines of>I am ecumenist because I don't believe we can assert that Roman Catholics and Protestants are not Christians; it's still better to belong to either of those groups than to some other groups [I'm guessing he meant muslims or atheists]; however, they are gravely mistaken in their relationship towards Christ, the eucharist, and other things, and their way of conceiving of many foundational principles of the faith is completely different from the Orthodox wayand in another discussion I had with him>yes, we can say that RC and Protestantism are heresies, but it wouldn't be productive to say that to their faces, and we shouldn't refuse dialogue on that basisI mean, I guess I shouldn't expect him to go full young earth creationist orthobro on me (even though I wouldn't mind) and start calling everyone heretics or whatever, but I'm on the fence because I don't want to attend a parish where I would feel like the teachings of the Church would be diluted or steeped in compromise for the sake of ecumenical dialogue.The people there are very nice and I feel welcomed, but I'm also looking for a certain level of rigidity and strictness in dogma.The parish was under the EP until 2018 but was then accepted into the MP for various reasons. It's a mix of ethnically russian people and converts due to being particularly convert-friendly (liturgy in my language and so on)For those of you who've attended an Orthodox parish longer than me, what are your thoughts?By the way I'm not calling out any non-Orthodox people, I just want opinions on this particular issue, not a theological debate.
>>23980895It's because it's true, Anon. Most specifically the Resurrection is true. Jesus really did rise from the dead. It's the only explanation that makes sense of all the details surrounding him.
>>23980895If you take everything in the literal sense and approach divine matters with ground reason you are bound to be filtered hard. Scripture is not something you read like a novel or a non-fiction essay. You have to read with your heart and tune in with the symbolism. These are supra-rational matters pertaining to the mystic and the mysterious ; only intuitive spirit can grasp the otherworldly events at play here. To be fair most people are incapable of this nowadays so I won't blame you too much. It's truly a way of thinking that has been lost to the ages. Even the most spiritual people within the church these days will only contend with the exoteric sphere of Christianity and never delve within the esoteric gnoses of old.
I confess that Christ is God made flesh, and that He is my only and sufficient saviour.
>>23981003>listen, Christians don't know how to read the Bible, only non-Christian followers of a double-heterodox hindu-muslim know how to do it properly
>>23979985>>23981049Amen.
>>23981067Yes, there is a staggering overlap between traditional Christian metaphysics and Sufism, Vedanta, Taoism and the Kabbalah, and any initiate of these traditions would better understand any other sacred text than unintiated laymen. That much doesn't warrant any further discussion
>>23981067>responding to perennialist nonsense
>>23981085Yeah, surely the Christians of the old times would agree -- but not the Fathers of the Church, and also not the Desert Fathers, and also not any other Christian outside of the Jewish-Masonic Chivalry Cult of the Tranny Goat. The goat cult alone holds the true interpretation that when Jesus said he wouldn't feed the dogs, He actually meant to say that Super-Ishivara is Allah, and was quoting the 照燒拉麵 upanishad.
>>23981003>the esoteric gnoses of old.Did you mean to say Platonism
>>23980952That sounds like a reasonable stance for your priest to take. I mean let's be honest here, do you really think people will take it kindly if you were to call them heretics, say they don't have the Holy Spirit and are going to Hell right to their faces, and expect them to convert after that? Most saints have more tact than that. There is a story of St. Silouan who had a conversation with an archimandrite , which went as followed:A simple monk who nonetheless attracted pilgrims from all over the world, his teaching emphasized the absolute necessity of love and humility for authentic Christian life.As is evident from the story below, the saint believed these virtues should guide all aspects of Christian witness, including how we interact with and preach the truth to those in error or heresy.Father Silouan’s attitude towards those who differed from him was characterised by a sincere desire to see what was good in them, and not to offend them in anything they held sacred. He always remained himself, he was utterly convinced that “salvation lies in Christ-like humility,” and by virtue of this humility he strove with his whole soul to interpret every man at his best. He found his way to the heart of everyone to his capacity for loving Christ.I remember a conversation he had with a certain Archimandrite who was engaged in missionary work. This Archimandrite thought highly of the Staretz and many a time went to see him during his visits to the Holy Mountain. The Staretz asked him what sort of sermons he preached to people.The Archimandrite, who was still young and inexperienced, gesticulated with his hands and swayed his whole body, and replied excitedly, “I tell them, ‘Your faith is all wrong, perverted. There is nothing right, and if you don’t repent, there will be no salvation for you.'”The Staretz heard him out, then asked, “But please tell me, holy archmandrite, do they believe in the Lord Jesus Christ – that He is the true God?”“Yes, they do believe that.”(Continued)
>>23981141“And do they honour the Holy Mother?”“They honour Her, but they teach erroneous things about Her.”“And what about the saints – do they acknowledge their existence?”“Yes, they do, but ever since they have severed themselves from the Church, what kind of saints could they have?”“Do they perform services in Churches? Do they read the word of God?”“Yes, and they also have temples and services, but if you could only see how inferior their services are to ours – how cold, how soul-less they are!”“Holy archmandrite, their souls obviously feel that they are acting correctly in believing in Christ, in honouring the Holy Mother and the saints – whom they invoke in their prayers. That is why, when you tell them that their faith is illegitimate, they will not listen to you… But if you told the people that they are right in believing in God, that they are right in honouring the Holy Mother and the saints, and in going to church for services and praying at home, that they are right in reading the Word of God and all the rest, except that here and there they have a few incorrect theories which should be corrected, then everything will be just fine and pleasing to God, and by the Grace of God, everyone will be saved…. “God is Love”, and that is why a sermon needs to always spring from love. Only then will the preacher and the listener both benefit. But if you censure them, then the souls of the people will not listen to you and no benefit will be achieved.”There is also the time when Seraphim Rose met Seraphim Cardoza and told him to "Stay on the path. God is here!" And that led to the conversion of a whole parish to Orthodoxy.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg9J70NXaqE
>>23981141>>23981149No, I agree with him on that point, but I wonder if participating in ecumenical dialogue, or even interfaith gatherings (not prayers obviously, that's absolutely unacceptable) is really a good thing to do when the Church is already so fragmented. I mean he himself admitted as much when he told me the EP's behavior had led to our metropolite moving the archdiocese to Moscow's jurisdiction.Maybe it's not reasonable of me to expect him to take a more hardline fundamentalist stance but I'm afraid of the cancer of ecumenism is all. Among some of the younger (early twenties, not yet chrismated) converts in the parish coming from a Roman Catholic background, I hear a lot of stuff about accepting religions, denouncing "anti science rhetoric" and so on. I see it as a symptom of a confused spirituality, but maybe I'm wrong.It's funny you would take the example of Father Silouan, assuming it's Silouan the Athonite, he's the patron saint of one of the monasteries our church is connected to. But yes, I get your point. I wouldn't have expected Seraphim Rose to do something like this though considering his writings, although he did have the reputation to be very rigid in his books and much more forgiving and understanding in real life.
>>23981182>but I wonder if participating in ecumenical dialogue, or even interfaith gatherings (not prayers obviously, that's absolutely unacceptable) is really a good thing to do when the Church is already so fragmented. I mean he himself admitted as much when he told me the EP's behavior had led to our metropolite moving the archdiocese to Moscow's jurisdiction.I wouldn't attend such meetings nor engage in such dialogue. Typically the people who suggest we open up to "dialogue" have an ecumentist agenda.>Among some of the younger (early twenties, not yet chrismated) converts in the parish coming from a Roman Catholic background, I hear a lot of stuff about accepting religions, denouncing "anti science rhetoric" and so on. I see it as a symptom of a confused spirituality, but maybe I'm wrong.I wouldn't worry too much about that. Hopefully those views will be corrected during their catechism. Pray for them.>It's funny you would take the example of Father Silouan, assuming it's Silouan the Athonite, he's the patron saint of one of the monasteries our church is connected to.Yes, it is Silouan the Athonite. He is also my patron saint.>although he did have the reputation to be very rigid in his books and much more forgiving and understanding in real life.I think this is a development later in his life. I heard he regretted publishing some articles in the Orthodox Word due to his zealotry.
>>23980895It's worth noting that Matthew was a very Jewish gospel, compare him to John and you'll see a very stark difference.In my humble heterodox opinion, Jesus was the fulfillment of all the nations of the earth. While he was historically Jewish, all the various peoples saw him as the prophet they have heard of - The Jewish messiah, Dionysus successor to Zeus; suceeding his father's throne, and leading man away from his titanic self.His truth lies in him, not in texts. Knowing his true presence is worth more than any study of the gospels, especially relevant in recent times which have shown how multifaced early Christianity and its forms were.
>>23981274>the people who suggest we open up to "dialogue" have an ecumentist agendaIt's all quite confusing. He describes himself as ecumenist but rejects the usual talking points ("it's all the same god", "we're just the most right but other people are right too", etc). I mean the usual ecumenist probably wouldn't admit Catholics and Protestants are heretics, right?He doesn't seem to concede what ecumenists would usually be accused of conceding, and yet he still takes part in dialogues. I should ask him why.>Hopefully those views will be corrected during their catechismHopefully, yes. The priest isn't outspoken about scientific subjects though and seems to take the stance of separating theology from scientific claims (which is arguable, I don't necessarily disagree, but it's a slippery slope towards theistic evolutionism and other such things). When I first talked about philosophy with him, he told me that the Orthodox view puts less of an emphasis on philosophical rationality, and more on theology and the mysteries, i.e. Orthodoxy is "lived", not "thought". Which I guess is true, but it means I shouldn't expect a hard stance against some specific subjects that are at the intersection of philosophy and science.>He is also my patron saintWhy did you choose him in particular?>he regretted publishing some articlesI find Seraphim Rose to be very relatable and human. His experience of dabbling in false teachings and esotericism, then finding truth and devoting himself to defending it in such a radical manner, and finally mellowing out later on. I think his life somewhat mirrors the spiritual path of many young men today.
>>23981317>It's all quite confusing.You have ecumenism, and you have ecumenism. You have the kind of ecumenism, which is perennialism, which says "all religions lead to God", or "all religions are true" which you stated. Then, you have a Christian ecumenism, which goes like "theology doesn't matter, we all believe in Christ". It sounds like your priest believes we are all Christians, but Catholics and Protestants are our estranged brothers and sisters, which I don't think there is anything wrong with that. It's good to desire all of us to be united, but we all must be united under the Orthodox church. To me, there are degrees to heresy. There is a difference between being a heathen, a heterodox Christian, an Orthodox Christians who promotes heresy and refuses to admit he's wrong, and an apostate.>but it's a slippery slope towards theistic evolutionism and other such things).>some specific subjects that are at the intersection of philosophy and science.I don't quite understand. Can you please understand or give an example?>Why did you choose him in particular?It's a very long story and deeply personal story. Forgive me for not sharing.>I think his life somewhat mirrors the spiritual path of many young men today.He would've been my first pick if her were canonized.
>>23981410I see what you mean. Frankly I'm pretty uncompromising on this kind of thing. I know ROCOR is usually more conservative than ROC and I would've chosen that to be safe, but there's no ROCOR parish in my city anyway. It's either ROC (well, a special archdiocese placed under the MP, but that's semantics) or the EP, and the latter wasn't an option.>I don't quite understandWhen I mean it's a slippery slope, for example I asked my priest a very specific question about philosophy last sunday. Admittedly it was a very autistic question on the nature of time and how it could be a byproduct of the fall (which is something he said) considering the progressive nature of epektasis, and the references to temporal progression within Eden and the New Earth in scripture (Genesis and Revelation respectively).He told me he'd answer me later because it was a long discussion, but in the meantime, he said not to get hung up on philosophy (which I can understand), and also that it's important to separate scripture from science, and that he also enjoyed scientific inquiry separately from theological inquiry. I'm still not exactly sure what he meant by that. But to me that could potentially lead to endorsing some aspects of the scientific status quo that are incompatible with a literal reading of scripture.>the intersection of philosophy and scienceDarwinism, for example. Which is wholly incompatible with Orthodoxy, but people who completely separate theology and science might go "well, we need to trust the science, and also trust that scripture is right", which I'm sure you can see might lead to issues. Either by adapting scripture to science post-hoc (which is a grave error), or by handwaving subversive, dogmatic scientism as something that's true in spite of scripture saying otherwise (cognitive dissonance)>Forgive me for not sharingNot at all, I understand.>if he were canonizedHasn't it been decades since he was supposed to be canonized? It's endlessly talked about but nobody ever does it. I think only Georgia locally recognizes S. Rose as a saint.
>>23980120God didn't need to balance any ledger with himself. The sacrifice was out of love to show all men that God is willing to suffer fully in the way that we do. Jesus returned having conquered death, in turn showing that those who pick up the cross will conquer death as well.
fuck off christcucks
>>23981531>God didn't need to balance any ledger with himself.Where did the person you were responding to say that?
>>23979985The shit man comes up with lmao. Cool story bro.
>>23979985>everlasting life>you still have to die first tho tee heewhat a scam kek
>>23981085It could be that the stories are literal and follow a pattern that is found in Sufi, Kabbalah, etc. The gospels are beautiful and mysterious. I sometimes lose faith in believing them literally since everything seems to corrupt so quickly but then I read them and it feels absolutely true all over again.
>>23982232>nooo I want to be bound to material reality because.... something
>>23982264what you or I want is irrelevant
Do you believe a man can rise from the dead, /lit/?
Yeah, your God really is into loving, isn't he. From Genesis 19:[30] And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.[31] And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:[32] Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.[33] And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.[34] And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our Father.[35] And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.[36] Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.
