I’m really good at theme, characters and the academic side of writing fiction but I’m terrible at making the characters actually interact with the setting. I’m also horrible at writing stories as pieces of fiction that exist for the sake of narrative progression. I know I need both. How can I improve the actual plot and story of my work without reading genre slop? My writing reads like a bunch of super self obsessed characters that are super neurotic and the narrative is almost completely in their heads while still being very omniscient
>>23981489you don't have what it takes just give up
your writing has to have a goal and a vision, think of it like telling your kids--characters to get in the van and taking them somewhere only you know--goal, for whatever reason you think is best--vision, you've got a car--plot and theme, your driving skills and a destination, since you know the rest, coming up with a goal/vision shouldn't be a problem
>>23981505I have a goal and vision, i just tie it to theme. I outline and whatever as well, like extensively, but I struggle with it appearing as one grand orthogenesis rather than a bunch of coincedental events. When you read it as a whole, i cant help but feel that although everything that happens makes sense to me, and has logic, it doesnt have that overall feeling of “oh right everything comes together neatly “ but more “oh, well I see how it works”Basically its a lot of moving plots that intercede with the multi pov but thematically and symbolically unify but superficially feel convoluted and like a schizophrenic made the plot using his consistent logic
>>23981524then you have no vision if you are still struggling with accepting it's complete, if you had some overarching vision, then it would be easy to alter it to fit that vision, theme is not vision, it could be likened to why you wrote the piece of fiction in the first place but won't tell anyone because you want them to discover it on their own, theme is just the face of this vision, the first thing the reader sees but is still unsure why the book was written
>>23981536I have multiple themes and visions for the final thing. That isn’t the problem. I also do not not tell people about the theme or vision, quite the opposite. I don’t like ambiguity in literature. I beat the theme and vision constantly over the head of the reader. The first sentence of the entire series is the “mantra” that encompasses the major theme of micro/macro-cosms that play into the story. I struggle with maintaining a balance between 19th century Realism and Gaddisnian pomo. I want both at the same time. I want authorial omniscience and deep, fragmented character interiority. I want a narrative like Anna Karenina but the prose and interiority and language of The Recognitions. I want paradoxical things.
>>23981524why write if you don't have an overarching understanding of reality and your own philosophy? that's literally the point of writing otherwise it's just jerking yourself off with words.
>>23981587You’re not reading this correctly. I said many times I do have a very clear idea of the philosophy and end vision. I just struggle with the methodology of achieving that end goal with the limits of language and the formalist structure of the novel, especially because I want to both expand on it while also maintaining a formalist view on narrative structure. Further, even if I didn’t have a full picture, the act of writing to determine a deeper understanding is a legitimate practice.
>>23981586then why not copy both, i mean if you know both styles well enough it should be easy to reproduce a single narrative that employs the best of both, then keep experimenting like this until you have written the perfect chapter, but don't go on till this is done, your 'vision' needs to be visible to you as early as chapter one, your problem it seems is that you need someone to tell you to discard everything and start afresh in this fashion, maybe the best thing might be to start on another book
>>23981609I do end up rewriting a lot. The thing is that the series is huge and the novels themselves are also huge and so I move around a lot within the novel because I know the characters and what they’re supposed to be doing. This might be partly the reason why it all feels disjointed, if all but thematically. My vision maintains the order. I could work on a different book, seperate from my main work, but this work encompasses everything so I feel anything else would be written half-passionately.
>>23981617hence the discard everything suggestion but it seems like you've invested a lot, so you need to weigh what's more important for you, publishing an 'unfinished' manuscript and finding out its not as bad as you thought it would be or taking a leap of faith, discarding everything and starting afresh
I am currently in the writing process, but I am stuck with writing the scientific character. How do I make them seem smart to the reader. I could make them repeat science off of an article but most can not relate.
>>23981489>making the characters actually interact with the settingYou can bracket that with the internal POVs of the actors. Dialogue oughtn't be exposition puppetry, you lose narrator transparency: either make it naturalistic (terse-ifiy), or ideal (quiet part out loud). >plot/story70 3x5'' notecards, one scene per = a standard film script. You can do this for any story. Events don't have to be serial "and then and then ... and then ..." -- you can play with time, counterpoint, 5shadowing and call backs. If you're stuck, develop your 'fluff'-- the background of characters/context. Beyond a point they will inform on where things ought to head and how. These are things that have to be Thought Through, strategized.
>>23981824>narrator transparency?
>>23981489Start with novelettes and write garbage till you get better. Look around for stuff that you might want to write similarly to, and read that.
>>23981655Think about something you actually know really well and think about how you would talk about it.
>>23981987>write garbage till you get betterit you have the time, say fuck it and pump some shit out and see what response you get.
