I don't really agree with Fukuyama's thesis because I don't agree with Hegel's thesis. I don't actually think the dialectic necessarily tends towards greater freedom and self-actualization.

>>24080055
It’s becoming abundantly clear that history is not progressive and the realization that it isn’t is the driving force of all our modern politics; anxiety over the fact that the premises of modernity are going to be disproven soon and we can’t bear to admit it so we’d rather lash out against each other and surrender a will for life itself. I think by the end of this century the idea of historical progress will be seen as one of those hilariously stupid ideals of the past, like how we laugh at people believing the earth was flat

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>>24080058
Ironically, given that Marx cribs from Hegel, and Marx is a materialist, I feel like not enough attention is paid to the material explanation for the current state of affairs, including the Liberal world order.

Look at this fucking continent. It's a fortress. It's a fortress WITH incredible topsoil, abundent natural resources, and a powerful global strategic position. Any nation that came to dominate this continent was almost destined to play a major role in world affairs as the globe was settled and civilization became interconnected.

The Liberal world order is dependent on the fact that the United States is the most powerful nation in the world, and the United States' position as the most powerful nation in the world owes a lot more to raw material conditions than people are accustomed to thinking. It's the nation that makes the philosophy, not the other way around. If America had some other governing ideology THAT would be what dominates the world right now.

>>24080061
In due time the world will realize it was wrong. There is no objectively superior system that brings all the answers to human life spiritually and materially. People were wise enough to admit that was the case with religions but they didn’t with their ideologies. And this industrial secular civilization will decline just as the religious civilizations did.

Americans lost all their wars. They never were any world power. The USA was propped up by the rootless international elite after WW1. That's 1 century ago only.
And they never were an empire. At best they are the bourgeois version of the military empire : they wanted the cheap version ie putting little military bases all over the world and that's it and then claimed '''woah look at that we're all over the place and control everything'' lol.

>>24080053
this book proved japanese high IQ is a myth

>>24080146
Truth nvke

is history anything besides adjusting enslavement to changing technology

>>24080053
Fukuyama argued that nothing would ever happen again so when something happens you know he was wrong

>>24080053
>hurr durr I'm a boomer, things are changing and I don't like it, history is ending, the west has fallen

>>24081829
nope

>>24080058
Yes, whig history is gay. We've known this for some time now.

>>24080061
one race dominated north america for thousands of years and did jack diddly

then whites came and voila

history has shown again and again that when whites conquer any landmass then prosperity follows (hellenistic era, roman empire, reconquista, entire age of exploration & empire). Not just for the whites but the also the comparative advantage of their neighbours. It follows the greater the advantages of the landmass, the greater the benefits whites will reap.

your materialist view is very obviously incorrect

>>24081973
should have mentioned the aryan conquest of india as well

>>24081973
nta but you are kicking the can ahead, the conjuncture is indeed twofold, the combination of two factors at the right time, a race capable of understanding how to exploit such a massive unassailable el dorado of resources and the latter being presented to them

>>24081973
The most retarded viewpoint ever and you people keep clinging to it despite being proven wrong every single day. Same crybabies who whine about “white genocide” and how helpless they are in the face of Western decline, are the same ones who flex inherent racial and civilizational superiority over all groups in the world. You cry like pussies at the same time as gloating about mass murdering the rest of the world

>>24082024
the current issues facing whites are all self imposed. imagine thinking blacks, browns, or yellows have a hand in it, LMAO

>>24082033
Not to them. The prevailing narrative implicitly promoted by people like Musk and explicitly promoted by elite liberals is that there’s an Islamic-Marxist infiltration of the West trying to destroy it from within by taking in immigrants and spreading social illnesses like transgenderism. The West and white people apparently have nothing to do with all this on their own, it’s just foreign enemies subverting their society. It’s a conspiratorial plot for destruction and isn’t a consequence of liberalism and capitalism.

This is genuinely what they believe. Ayaan Hirsi Ali has a whole article alleging this. And it’s all in service of preserving this ideal of Fukuyama’s end of history. History isn’t “truly” over until we kick out all the immigrants and ban Islam, then we can celebrate the ultimate history of the West. Or on the flip side history isn’t truly over until we achieve absolute diversity and get rid of all the conservative movements, etc etc. It’s all the same shit at the end of the day regardless if it’s from the left or right. They’re liberals who want to cling to their civilization’s dominance despite all signs pointing to its inevitable decline.

>>24082054
History won't be over then, because you are forgetting the reason behind Islamizing wealthy countries in the first place. It took us almost 200 years to get here.
We will have global communism whether you like it or not. Real communists are in control now.

>>24082063
That’s even more of a pipe dream than what the liberals believe

>>24082158
It isn't, it's in line with what Marx predicted years ago. Communism is inevitable.

>>24082191
Two more weeks huh?

>>24082202
Weeks, years or centuries - history will vindicate dr. Karl Marx's writings.

>>24082054
>there’s an Islamic-Marxist infiltration of the West trying to destroy it from within by taking in immigrants and spreading social illnesses like transgenderism
>Islam is spreading transgenderism in the West
Are you actually retarded?

>>24082257
nta but spreading dysgenic ideologies to your enemies is not the same as embracing them

>>24082257
Can you read dumbass? I'm saying this is what other people are saying. This is legitimately what conservatives believe

>>24082257
To be fair, Islam has the highest rates of apostasy of any modern religion. So them becoming trans is not out of the question.

>>24082319
Completely untrue

>>24082307
Name ten

>>24081887
anon at least read one wikipedia page prior to posting please it's the least you could do

>>24080053
I think it’s plain that China’s government is more advanced than Western government, but it is hard to tell unless there’s a war. War is the only real test of governments, since after all governments exist for only two purposes: to protect their citizens from criminals and protect their citizens from other governments.

The biggest benefit of Chinese government in my mind is that it is probably more conducive to a positive national self image. Imagine a man or woman who goes through his life constantly saying to him or herself: “I am wretched, greedy, evil, foolish, unlikeable, pathetic.” Such a person would quickly collapse into unhappiness and illness. Yet that is precisely what the national discourse of liberal democratic republics indulges in, day in and day out, through their “free press” and “free academia”—an endless, steaming, swirling cesspit of self-hatred, typified by Susan Sontag a few decades ago. Her screed would not be out of place in any Western magazine today:

“The truth is that Mozart, Pascal, Boolean algebra, Shakespeare, parliamentary government, baroque churches, Newton, the emancipation of women, Kant, Marx, Balanchine ballets et al., don’t redeem what this particular civilization has wrought upon the world. The white race is the cancer of human history; it is the white race and it alone—its ideologies and inventions—which eradicates autonomous civilizations wherever it spreads, which has upset the ecological balance of the planet, which now threatens the very existence of life itself.”

An equivalent paragraph is unimaginable in China because the government would not allow it to be published. Westerners claim that this is “oppressive,” but really it is just healthy. For what healthy individual doesn’t repress ugly thoughts about themselves all the time? The human ego is an endless self hype engine—we couldn’t sustain ourselves otherwise.

The government is the mind of the people. The Western liberal democratic mind is like a mind with no superego, no repressive, controlling faculty. In fact, its one strong superego instinct, the tendency toward the suppression of racism, is self-destructive and anti-rational. Enormous energy is expended to *suppress* commonly acknowledged truths about the difference of Africans, while absolutely *no* energy is spent hyping up the greatness of the society itself.

Thus, as the “mind of the people,” Western governments are essentially insane.

Nevertheless, it is not too late for a course correction. The First Amendment and similar speech protections are not all inclusive, as the passage of the Sedition Acts shortly after the American Republic’s founding shows. Until 60 years ago films were heavily censored, their sexual and criminal content limited. Still today profanity is censored on television. Bring back censorship to save democracy—only hope.

>>24083893
This is a pipe dream. All political movement is still done in the name of freedom today. An outright pro-censorship policy is never going to be desired by the masses, the only way it could happen is if it's totally discreet and no one's gonna do that

>>24080053
All civilizations reach the end of history and the end of history is liberalism and/or communism as well as total degeneracy. Fukuyama is not wrong, but he pretends that the end of Western civilization is the end of all history itself, wich is not necessarily true. One only needs to page through the degenerate periods of ancient civilizations, compare them to their periods of glory and success as well as to our modern era to realize this simple truth.

ANCIENT GREECE
I pass on the results of public education - I say nothing about the contests of naked girls in the Stadium, I do not insist on this official exaltation of physical beauty whose recognized goal was to establish for the State haras of citizens sharply trimmed, full-bodied and vigorous; but I say that the end of all this bestiality was to create a branch of wretches without faith, without probity, without shame, without humor, capable of all infamies, and shaped in advance, slaves as they were, to the acceptance of all turpitudes. I refer to the dialogues of the Demos of Aristophanes with his election.

At the most beautiful time, between the Battle of Marathon and the Peloponnesian War, all the eminent men leaned towards the vague opinion that today we would call conservative. They were not aristocrats, in the true sense of the word (1). Neither Aeschylus nor Aristophanes wished for the restoration of the perpetual or decennial archontat; but they believed that, in the hands of the rich, the government had chance of functioning with more regularity than when it was given to the sailors of Piraeus and the slackers of Pnyx.

ANCIENT ROME
Most of these philosophers were experienced atheists, and preached doctrines that led there, or not far away. Some, endowed with an extraordinary eloquence, came to please the great characters, and, at their expense, acted on their resolutions or on their conscience. Many, after professing that there was no God, not finding their profession lucrative enough, became Isiacs, or priests of Mithras, or servants of other Asian divinities discovered by them and which they seemed to invent. It was the dominant taste in the upper classes to go and throw at the head of idols, unknown the day before, streams of superstitious adoration, since the regular cults were no less discredited by fashion than the other national traditions.

As you can see the decline of morals, the normalization of sex in public, the social divide between liberals and conservatives after the fall of the nobilities, as well as the decline of religion in it's traditional form are no things to be invented in our Century as moderns may pretend it is, worse, they say it is a great progress that will advance humanity. It will only advance the inevitable decline and fall of Western civilization, and the day in wich a foreign conqueror finally slays the abortion wich sits on it's ridiculous throne.

>>24080053
The last decade has actually proven this book's thesis.

>>24084713
retard ignores contemporary maga movement, neo-fascism in europe and islamist extremism, all who want to curtail too much freedom

>>24084813
Again, they're doing all of this in the name of preserving the liberal West and its freedoms. The same ideology will remain at the end of the day no matter what they do. If you want to convince masses of people that freedom in and of itself can be a bad thing then it'll never work even though that's actually what needs to be done in order to salvage the trajectory of Western countries.

>>24084758
This is more or less the case, yeah. We actually are "at the end" of history, but even the end comes to an end. Progress equals decay and decay is progressive.

>>24084817
>liberal West and its freedoms
sure, including the freedom to wear hijabs since everyone is created equal, the freedom foreign culture in the west, the freedom to refuse assimilation, what a liberal world we live in where laws can be whipped up on demand when the culture becomes too spicy for the natives and we've not even mentioned the freedom to choose your own gender, you just passed an lgbtq law 10 yrs ago, legalized marijuana and allowed thugs to steal groceries so such trivial matters shouldn't faze you

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>>24083893
A major factor for China's sucess in comparison to the USSR who was not all that unsucessfull either is the fact that the CCP has NEVER publicly and openly denounced their leaders ever since Mao died. Mao himself commented on this plenty, when Khruschev took power after Stalin and how much he shitted on the man, alongside the guy who took power after Khruschev whom uhhhh I forgot the name and did the same. Deng sure had some policies that went directly agains't Mao but they were not openly broadcast for everyone to know and to this day countless monuments in his name are kept.
After the first half of the fourth paragraph everything went insane and very inhumane. America is only the nation it is today because of freedom, freedom of enterprise, freedom of expression, creation and so on. Had the USA stuck to the highly oppressive roots the brits had maybe history would have taken a differenr course. Prostitution, murder and insanity have always been part of America's roots, meanwhile im sure I can mention countless of very unfree and sorry states like the ones in the Middle East or Southeast Asia that have a even more miserable population than the US ever had. China is a somewhat free country, you can live a normal life in China just as you can in any city in the west, free of the government wanting to snipe you in the head, in fact you don't even have to worry about things such as crime and drugs so your overall freedom to per say walk home late at night after a good time with friends is higher. The government's inability, or lack of interest, in holding back violent crime and drugs is actually making people even less free.
But any chinamen of note, anyone who actually makes a difference for their country, was not raised in the overly oppressive and unfree China. They were taught in the US, in the UK and so on for years only to come back later. China is unfunctional without the west backing them up and it shows in many instances other than this.

>>24084817
>they're doing all of this in the name of preserving the liberal West and its freedoms
are they? maybe maga, yes, but this is understandable since liberalism more or less goes hand in hand with americanism, but in Europe even despite 80 years of bombardment this sentiment is much less powerful
of course, even in Europe, the public paid actors intervening to steer the conversation into safe directions will try to keep the liberalism train on its tracks no matter how many bodies it runs over, but the people itself maybe aren't of the same fundamental view

>>24084817
and let's not forget how the fbi sperged whenever communism was implied during the cold war, today the society itself will reject you if you even smell of antisemitism, the us maybe free but its also the most factional country, each industry is ruled by a faction of oligarchs who couldn't care less about freedom, the only freedom is the one that allows them to rip you off

>>24080146
It is the chief export of culture to the world.
The world utilises English as the global franca.
If the US opened it's borders 4 billion people would come in the next day.
Assimilates any foreigner in 1-2 generations. They lose their mother tongue and background.

>>24084912
you do know that they speak spanish in texas and florida and that black people have never assimilated ?

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>>24084915
America is an assimilation machine.

>>24084850
>but the people itself maybe aren't of the same fundamental view
That's where you're wrong. Americans are much more right-wing than Europeans.

>>24084959
I don't think that word, "right wing", means much here, "right wing" in Europe and USA mean very different things, and specifically they tend to differ very much specifically on freedom.

>>24084837
This is a falsehood. Some Chinese elites do study in the West, but not all, or even a majority.

I’ll also emphasize that I am not saying the West needs Soviet or Maoist or even Xi-ist censorship. I’m saying it needs a widespread, multi-front effort of national and cultural enthusiasm. Positive messaging needs to drown out negative. History is the core of the problem. Americans and Europeans are taught to hate and detest their own past.

I’d argue that the average citizen, the 90-100 IQ high school + some college retail manager, essentially only learns one core “meme” from history class in school, and from history media they happen to see. For the commoner of today, the meme they know is—“Those folks back then were sure bad people.”

This is not a productive mindset to have. It’s damaging on a lot of levels. It’s also unusual in human history. People usually *revered* or even *worshipped* their ancestors in history. They saw themselves as weaker and less virtuous than those who came before. Not today! The man of today looks down on his forefathers—racists, sexists, violent, prudish, arrogant, stuffy.

This attitude started at the top, with academics like Susan Sontag.

The *censorship* will need to be focused on silencing and disenfranchising the elite academics who peddle despair inducing messaging. It’s not hard—just take away their degree or professorship, cast them out, give their job to someone with pride.

The other side is funding and promotion of simple, non-subversive stories. “Boring” stories like “sherrif rescues maiden from Indian tribe” or “family crosses Great Plains in wagon” or “poor white man comes to America and by hard work through numerous misfortunes obtains farm and family.”

These stories don’t get told anymore, and it shows in the mindset of Americans today.

>>24080058
...writes the pampered primate on his internet machine, both products of progressive history.

>>24085152
It's possible for the West to transform a bit to maintain its status as a strong, prideful liberal power. Actually Fukuyama agrees with you that there needs to be more nationalist sentiment among citizens. But in the end it'll still have to be under the provisions of liberalism and globalism because that's the system of the West and that's how the world works. If you want to go as far as to deport non-whites or something like that as rightists online often do, it's completely impossible. Musk let everyone know last week it's impossible. The West will inevitably become brown, gay and retarded.

>>24083893
Western countries are currently battling a blight of terrible leadership. That's it.

>>24083893
>Susan Sontag
>Sontag was born Susan Rosenblatt in New York City, the daughter of Mildred (née Jacobson) and Jack Rosenblatt, both Jews of Lithuanian and Polish descent.
It's all so fucking tiresome.

I am happy that the atheists don't breed. Then it will be china versus islam. Which side do you support?
The thing i like from the chinese bureaucrats is that they dont give a shit about commerce, this means they dont give a shit about usury and thus the semites.
If you want to kill democracy, you only have 2 options: support china or support islamists. I think china is the least evil.

The fall of the west can't come soon enough. I think the earliest will be near the end of this century: it will be a make it or break it for the westerners by 2075. Since their societies are heavily bureaucratic, their illusion of greatness can be artificially maintained for a few decades after their peak, but by 2200 they should be gone.
And on top of that they don't breed so it's all good.
A good landmark in the future will be how they manage the 100th anniversary of their WW2, maybe it will be a wake up call fro them and they may start to change, but it may be too little too late.

>>24085863
We don't need to kill democracy.
We don't need to destroy the tool which is used as a powerful weapon by our enemy.
We just need to kill our enemy.
Democracy functions perfectly well so long as there is no enemy.

Besides, your precious China is ruled by kike-backed Communists and has a Rothschild-owned central bank, literally the worst of both worlds, all because of jews, who've turned a country of congenital slaves into yet another weapon against those of us they call "Amalek" (protip: neither are Whites "Amalek" nor 'jews' Hebrews; these are yet further jewish lies designed to confuse, and through deception do they wage war against us).

I'm gonna go ahead and say that neither China nor Islam must be supported; in fact: I believe that both the Communist government of China and the entirety of Islam be utterly destroyed, as both essentially embody existential threats to the very survival of humanity.

We need to support Whites first, and each of our Nations second. (No need to "support" religion; religion itself is a support mechanism for us.)

>>24085863
The main responsibility for the last century's disasters lies not so much in the problems as in the solutions, not in impersonal forces but in human beings, thinking certain thoughts and as a result performing certain actions. Though the struggle with the forces of dogma has been long and hard, the open society has so far prevailed; there is no reason, in principle, why it should not do so in the future if the lessons have been truly learned, and when learned, not forgotten.

Over the last century the human race has survived experiences that, to put it mildly, should have been instructive. Scores of millions have been slaughtered, and it cannot be said that the avoidance of the even worse catastrophe of nuclear war was foreordained. Have the lessons been learned? And if so, to what extent?

>>24085863
Well, and what's your solution to the problem, then?

>>24086287
This mindset is precisely why your society is in decline

>>24080053
History demonstrates clearly that all Empires can become as conceivably degenerate as may be, at the end of the day, the only thing they have to fear is an ambitioned conqueror whiter than themselves. The Germanics had less written experience in battle, less technology, less organization than the generals of Imperial Rome; and yet, they managed to succeed them. This and many other historical instances proof that racial superiority trumps almost everything else, and the Romans could only mantain a foothold in front of the Northern barbarians for as long as those barbarians remained isolated from the world, and for as long as the same Romans preserved the whiteness of their blood.
The Russian, today, may very well be an inferior product to the whitest Anglo white. But for how long will the Anglo white be the rule in the Western Empire? Even nowadays, he seems to have become an exception rather than the rule, or better, a rule more uncommon than the exception.
It may very well be that everything that the West blames the Russians for being ill-charactered and corrupt is at it's core nothing but the same accusation of barbary the Romans did to the Germanics.
Who says that they are without potential of creating new things? What is the true root of their autistic opposition against the West?

>>24086757
just the shittiest analysis of life and the world possible and somehow the right-wing is increasingly going to back this nonsense. you deserve your impending failure, truly

>>24086786
Sorry, but I ain't neither right wing nor left wing, I am a historical objectivist. Right and left are permanent and peripermeably irrelevant to every serious political discussion.

>>24086792
"White people are inherently superior" is not a serious political discussion in an age where you're being outpaced by non-white countries and where whites would rather have immigrants reproduce than themselves

>>24086786
The only relevant topic in political discussions are actions to be done and actions not to be done. In an imperial sense, of course. To amplify or narrow the amount of voting citizens, to legalize or prohibit such and such a substance, to increase or restrict trade; all those questions are to be looked at not from a class perspective but from what is imperially beneficial to the country-empire.

>>24086796
I am refering to white countries specifically. In non-white countries it is the most numerically large and violent who seizes the throne. More or less, I have yet to analyze their societies in a profound manner.

>>24085215
Technological progress isn't the same. Technology may improve, become progressively more advanced, but human psychology remains the same. And much the same issues of today or just retellings of those that existed in the past. Human nature doesn't change even if our tools do

>>24080058
I had a conversation with my family along similar lines. I questioned the ideal of equality as stated in the declaration of independence, and suggested that such a statement makes no difference since it can never be true in any society. And as such is a abstract statement devoid of any real meaning. Then the conversation turned to the idea of historical progress, and I argued that it is illusory as history does not move in any inevitable direction. And it can be possible that it would be better to live in a earlier time depending on your circumstances. It was kind of crazy to see how angry this line of questioning made them. There is no bigger modern religion than the religion of progress

>>24086287
>Democracy functions perfectly well so long as there is no enemy.
Isn't it the opposite? Democracy is never stronger than when it has an external threat to unify the people. Look at the French revolution in which the foreign invasions on all sides by states seeking to restore the monarchy , or to take advantage of the newfound weakness, only led the French people to rally together

>>24085152
>These stories don’t get told anymore, and it shows in the mindset of Americans today.
Have you ACTUALLY seen a western movie? They're constantly about how horrid living back in the day was, but they were capable of being somewhat comical yet inspire a certain level of pride in it's audience, Clint Eastwood was a badass american hero braving the fucking wastelands per say. Our heroes are no longer humans, they are superheroes that represent certain ideals spread around by our current culture, the X-men are like actually just disabled people duuude. The stories don't need to be boring or rehashed, they can be accurate and cruel but need to be humane and showcase a somewhat enduring theme of your 'American cultural values' like how the basic western hero is a lonely independent man who's crafty and snarky but makes up his own rules or whatever. Im italian so im not one to dictate what american values are, im just very obsessed with their history and culture is all.
>This is a falsehood. Some Chinese elites do study in the West, but not all, or even a majority.
A ton of prestigious universities such as Harvard and Cambridge are closing their doors and discriminating agains't chinese students. To claim it's not a issue the west cares about is preposterous.
>History is the core of the problem. Americans and Europeans are taught to hate and detest their own past.
Again, not american, but here in Europe people are taught to be more critical of their past, in fact I wish we were more. In our textbooks we constantly got told how the italian government slipped up and got careless countless times yet our population still votes for pro-government policies from both the left and right leaning parties. Germans always sat down like fucking dogs any time the state told them to do something yet the german education system has to tell them the problem with nazism was some inner racism and not post war spite or trust in populist politicians. We shouls focus on less petty things like sexism or racism or if some old ruler cheated on his wife and study the ACTUAL core issues that plague a country's history. I don't demand a censorship of unproud or negative feedback, I just want it to go to actual important issues and put these ideas on the right track. Venerating the dead is as useless and needless as hating them, specially since they are no longer around to hear our praise or call their slaves niggers, they don't care. What we need to do is realise where we went right and where we went wrong to further our nation's progress, dwelling on the past is for stagnant nations, no wonder so many pre colombian tribes and societies venerate the dead so damn much. They are still humans.

>>24086757
that's kinda only true-ish if one considers the indo-european cycle alone in the west and its multiple pushes through various stages, from the earliest Anatolian/Armenian/Mitanni/etc... to Germanics, the typical historical "engine" leading northern healthier people to crush into southern decadent urbanized groups, create new syntheses, rinse and repeat
but I think Germanics themselves broke that "engine", even Slavs cannot be likened to a people truly outside of the "limen" of civilization like Germanics were, western civilization through its global influence destroyed that ecological balance so to speak of city dwellers vs barbarians from the steppes/forests/mountains influencing each other through competition and renovation, I think it's what makes the future more unpredictable even according to models like the Spenglerian one

>>24086972
> even Slavs cannot be likened to a people truly outside of the "limen" of civilization like Germanics were
Haven't you seen the clip from White Russia yet? It shown their very president on TV demonstrating his excellent wood splitting skills in front of a people.
The Germanics were considered barbarians by the Romans even though they lived in houses and practiced agriculture. The reproach of barbarism thus runs along another line.
Why does the West redeem the Russians other than for considering them the modern version of barbarians? What do we hate about Soviet communism other than for it being needlessly gruelsome and barbaric? It has almost something preemptive of a new dark age. It is economically unproductive well so was barbarian Feudalism.
The Russians will invent communism in a new form and bring a new dark age upon Europe for Centuries to come, the dark age of communism. The modern leftists will make their best serfs and they will voluntarily submit to their new masters.
That is, if we, the Westerners, don't fight for the breaches of the Imperium Londinorum.

I do not know how anyone can open social media right now and see Elon Musk calling for the overthrow of the British government, tons of posts calling for the murder and deportation of all Muslims from Europe, universal support among Western countries for a literal Jewish fascist country conducting an ethnic cleansing campaign, and outright white supremacist cheerleading and seriously say that liberalism has "solved" history and will survive the century. This is not a stable system. This is not a system that resolved all the contradictions that appeared in the past with things like fascism and socialism. If it's this easy for Jews to call all Arabs subhumans who deserve to be annihiliated and get away with it there's no reason to believe this won't happen in the West again as the dream of cosmopolitanism fades more and more.

>>24087298
It is unlikely that there will be any new system other than despotism. This btw is the implication of the decay of Empires. The people having become wayy to diverse, they can't find a common agreement anymore, for one, and for two, to avoid quarrel, even the least conceivably insulting slurword is banned from the public.
The Romans found a magical solution in emancipating all free men in the Empire regardless of ethnicity and replacing the old Republican form with the office of the Emperor. Every freeman being theoretically endowed with the right and the possibility of becoming one, no one complained.
In the West, liberal democracy fills a similar purpose, though it is hardly a democracy and more of a despotism with equal participation rights. So the Western system won't fall so easily, despite of it's flaws.

>>24087380
For years I've been unable to reconcile the comparative prosperity of the liberal West today with the obvious symptoms of decline taking place. Even with all these issues it seems the average young person in the world is still becoming an English-speaking cosmopolitan who consumes American media and cares about individual liberal rights. Even illiberalism has to operate within the confines of liberalism, so is it really fair to say that the whole system is collapsing when really it's still sustained even with people like Trump or Musk at the helm? I don't know. I don't have an answer yet. I can't realistically see a day coming soon where people will abandon their liberal constitutions and values of progress.

I see it kind of like what Christian states were like at the turn of modernity before the World Wars; completely contradicting Christianity with the elite classes in particular questioning its value, but the states still officially being Christian and most citizens being believers despite all their behaviors being contradictory to the religion. It's the same with liberalism today. Hardcore believers who transgress against what the text says. How much longer can it hold when we all know Christianity didn't? For this reason I think Nietzsche is going to have the last laugh.

>>24087404
It's just the most superior system currently available. The writers of the 20th Century were right in that assumption, the words have only been interpreted in a wrong way. The Western system will remain the leading form of government for as long as no better one becomes available, no matter how much it becomes degraded. And that better form of government will not come from within the West itself. Perhaps there will be some reformators, polishing a few edges here and there, but no reversal of the form to an entirely new one will come from within the West. We are the classical civilizations during the end times of their glory and success. We are no longer a people full of youth and potential, like the early Greek states, but we still have just enough youth and vigour left to still attract and inspire the masses of the Empire.
I don't know where I am going with this. My comment is based on years of studying the correct books and replacing wrong assumptions with wrong assumptions, of analyzing and comparing, until reaching something distantly resembling truth. And this truth, in essence, is that all countries have an imperialistic strain, no matter how large, how small, how aristocratic, how democratic. The hivemind imposes the imperialistic strain into the very makings of your thoughts, disguised as the good itself, or whatever.
So don't believe anything that people tell to you, because most likely it is the imperialistic thought (we are the best, our country is the strongest, other countries do things wrong, and so on).
And the West is currently THE leading Empire, by hegemony right, and empires.
In any way, I am going into too far a tangent.
Once you look at everything as empires in the making and empires in the fall things will start to make sense.

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>>24087404
hot take: it's cargo cultism by people who can't see pic related and, much like in the ancient world, the exterior "splendor" of it for outsiders is a great, giant mask: they see the polished facade, they don't see the internal rot
people in general simply have trouble distinguishing between momentum and propulsion in human affairs

>>24087491
we have uranium, hydroelectric, solar, wind power. Energy's not gonna be a problem. I can see plastics being a crisis though

>>24084922
That doesn't say how many Latinos don't speak Spanish. It only says that half of those who don't speak it get shamed for it, which is a lot. That indicates strong pressure to maintain their Latino culture.

>>24087491
The question is whether or not this internal rot even matters though. Liberalism can still be hegemonic while being flawed, chaotic and weakened. Empires survive for hundreds of years as they endure periods of decline and stagnation, they tend to peak very early on. What matters in terms of Fukyama's thesis is if liberalism is inherently going to be chosen by people as the best system as they develop materially. People naturally come to the conclusion that becoming liberal is the best option because it resolves all contradictions in our political development. This is what he claims. Just look at all the paranoid whining from conservatives in the West today about how the end is near and in 2 more weeks we will collapse. But point to things like China or Islam and these same people are just going to brag about how superior they are to those systems and how we need to protect liberalism from them.

>>24087453
It's ok to ramble like this, most people don't even think about this topic despite it being the central crisis of our world today, whether our faith in progress will hit a wall. We need more people questioning these things instead of blindly putting trust in literally retarded boomer politicians

>>24087519
Well, as I already explained, Fukuyama is right that no governmental form will succeed liberalism within the West itself, by the West, without simultaneously resulting in the surge of total anarchy within the country (a condition in any way not very likely to happen in the West). It has a lot of foreign immigrants, but they don't appear imperially ambitioned in the slightest. Most of the times they feel comfortable with living in the streets like filth. But let's not go into an unnecessary tangent.
If we take Fukuyama's assumption to be entirely correct, we also have to admit that neoliberalism, far from being somewhat 'ideal' for the modern West, in the same way no governmental form succeeded the Imperial formula of the Romans, it is too much to foretell and compliment a system so defectuous as to pretend it stands any chance at unifying the whole species into a single empire.
I'd even say that communism has a greater chance at doing so, exactly because of it's higher propensity for violence. They will just gulag the opposition. Neoliberal 'UN' has forbidden the conquest of nations for imperialistic purposes.

>>24087519
meh, idk, that's the thing, I think they don't see "liberalism" and say "hey, it makes sense!(politically speaking)", what they really see is America, the global superpower, and imitate it, regardless of the political system, which happens to be liberalism but when you have an unassailable pristine continent-spanning state oozing with natural resources, the momentum accumulated by the latter in few centuries is such that before the facade becomes clear and its global power reduced it takes a while, and within it, you can go from original "liberalism" as it existed when the founders lived and started the upwards rise to the current iteration, no matter how contradictory, and nobody will really pay too much attention to it as long as externally it looks dominant and they can rationalize it
it will be interesting to see what happens with countries like China slowly providing something that, again, from the exterior, looks more promising as the holes in the hull of the American empire become too obvious to ignore; if people start to see more and more people living in safe, homogeneous, high tech looking places, I don't think they are going to do much political juggling in their heads

>>24087570
The world we live in today is predicated on the idea that human development has already been solved. This is the end of history, we've achieved the best system that humans are capable of producing. We now just have to maintain and refine it. Every side of the political spectrum is trying to maintain this system in their own way; no one is suggesting that this system is outright incorrect. In that sense the entire West actually agrees with Fukuyama even if they claim to disagree, and it doesn't matter regardless when his position is the official stance of the Western ruling class. No matter what happens people are just going to wrap back around and say "I am glad I live in a liberal and capitalist society in the West and I hope these countries remain the most powerful." So can we really say that people like Fukuyama are wrong when technically nothing has eroded this consensus yet? We can point to all the obvious signs of industrial society's decline all day, but this society itself doesn't seem like it's going away any time soon. But there's also the second half of the thesis, that people will become so bored with this system that they'll revolt against it just to feel human vitality again in age where everyone is an immobile consumer. People like Trump fulfill this fantasy but the regime is still in power in the end. It doesn't really matter if this liberalism is true to what the founders of it says it should be, only that it's the ideology of the ruling system

>>24087298
>This is not a stable system. This is not a system that resolved all the contradictions that appeared in the past with things like fascism and socialism.
People have been pronouncing the death of liberalism for 150 years now or so. I think it's unstable but it's also the ideology most compatible with capital and it's reproduction and expansion, which BTW is not stable. I don't think fascism and socialism solved all the contradictions either in reality, rather the belief they did or that it was even possible was the ideology. Like the USSR had a centrally planned economy but everyday life for people was navigating an incredibly vast and complex black market just to get the basic things they needed.

>>24086906
One of the Italian westerns with Clint Eastwood was an adaptation of Yojimbo which depicted late Edo period Japan as totally fucked up and overrun by gangsters. I think if you want to extract the essence of the past to appreciate it, one has to be deeply critical of it, and Kurosawa was. If people just want a movie glorifying the past then they can watch that Kevin Cosner western that bombed recently.

>>24087828
Liberalism was under existential threat in the post-war interregnum when the international liberal project was being enforced but faced resistance from states like Nazi Germany; it won the subsequent war and continued its expansion. With no one left to fight it has no one to fight but itself. If there are no existential threats to liberalism, it will invent these threats and the population is retarded enough to go along with it. We still don't know where this age of paranoia is headed. It's astonishing how dissatisfied the political classes under liberalism are with their societies despite their endless posturing of how superior it is to all other cultures and how illiberal societies outright deserve to suffer. One moment it's fearing the rise of fascism or communism in 2 weeks like dipshits online do, the next moment it's keeping sanctions on Syria because the new leader didn't shake a woman's hand. If liberalism continues to delegitimize itself on the world stage, it's going to become more aggressive in an effort to assert itself. It's already happening with the revitalized right-wing becoming proudly racist again. And it could lead to a major disaster

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>>24080146
>the rootless international elite

>>24083893
I was in Guangzhou last month.
It absolutely mogs any US city, it's not even funny. Also no niggers, no whores, no faggots.
Would move there in a heartbeat if I had the opportunity.
The US propaganda machine is North Korea-tier.

>>24088158
>If liberalism continues to delegitimize itself on the world stage, it's going to become more aggressive in an effort to assert itself. It's already happening with the revitalized right-wing becoming proudly racist again
Nationalism is compatible with liberalism. It's a very small compromise to have in order to have a cohesive society that rows together.

>>24088523
It isn’t a small compromise when countries like America are already 50% non-white

>>24089485
Has always been

>>24089485
America is a lost cause for many reasons. My focus is on europe.

>>24090012
Europe has been a lost cause for 70 years.

>>24090032
How can you ignore the >23 states in Eastern Europe? Compared to Western Europe they are pretty much white ethnostates.

>>24090037
Because everybody‘s been ignoring them

>>24090037
The entire right-wing is currently going through a paranoid schizo meltdown over the idea that Muslims are going to conquer their country and put all women in burqas even though London is the whore capital of the world. It's a lost cause, not because Europe actually is going to fall in a cataclysmic collapse but because the people themselves have no confidence in their societies. Totally demoralized, self-loathing, resentful. These are not qualities of endurance.

>>24080146
>Americans lost all their wars.
So sick of this lazy bullshit.

>Wars the US won
Revolutionary War
War of 1812
Mexican War
Civil War (USA beat the CSA)
Various Indian wars
Spanish-American War
Philippines-American War
World War 1
Various Latin American incursions
World War 2
Panama
Grenada
First Gulf War

>stalemate
Korea

>Wars won but lost by political factors
Iraq 2 (OIF)
Afghanistan

This "America loses all the wars" thing is a shit meme cooked up by half-baked Third Worlders

>>24090170
Retard, can't you see anywhere with a large nonwhite population is a shithole? muslims are uncivilized

>>24090205
>This "America loses all the wars" thing is a shit meme cooked up by half-baked Third Worlders
Mostly by Soviets and their sympathisers. It's the same with "Russia had never lost a war in its entire history", when we conveniently forgetting about the Livonian War, Pruth River Campaign, Crimean War, Russo-Japanese War, the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk and focusing all of our attention on Charles XII, Napoleon and Hitler.

>>24083893
Your assessment is interesting but your conclusion is retarded.

Susan Sontag is not the kind of person who would be repressed under a new censorious, authoritarian government.
Under this kind of regime, the allies of the institutions, like Sontag, gain even more power than before. Industry leaders like Musk and academics, who you most likely despise, go from being a prominent voice in the discussion to the only voices in the discussion. You wouldn't even have a site like 4chan. You would be confined to shitty dark web forums and speaking in veiled memes the way that Chinese dissidents are required to do.

It really baffles me that you people simply decide that a state of this form would somehow work to preserve your specific ethnicity and the traditions you associate with it. The anti-Western narrative stems from an incentive for countries to host diverse groups of people which come with economic benefits for the people on top. This incentive doesn't cease to exist under an authoritarian state. Authoritarianism doesn't necessarily imply ethnic chauvinism. Chances are, you would be censored into the ground and imprisoned while the state just ramps up whatever it's doing now.

>while absolutely *no* energy is spent hyping up the greatness of the society itself.
Totally wrong. Multicultural festivals and queer days are celebrations of Western pluralism and freedom. Are they retarded? Yeah. But the self-serving propaganda exists, you just don't like it.

>>24090170
All peoples go through their heights and their lows. It's doesn't mean the end of all. The Amerifats on the other hand have always been the sons of bitches.

>>24089485
there are at least 200 million whites

>>24090220
The developed parts of Asia are pretty nice though

>>24090263
Again, that victim complex towards an imaginary 'elite'. It seems that I'm the only one who fails to recognize them as weak pathetic weakling faggots who would tremble and fall to their knees at the sight of a man stronger than themselves.
I am not referring to an authoritarian leadership, but more of a youngish, handsome, sociable but warlike guy who doesn't have autistic ideas about blood and soil. Someone like Alexander, Napoleon.
How do you fail to see that the West doesn't have anything resembling a useful elite? They can't even admit who they are. Coward pathetic weaklings. Just look at the British Royal House. Can't stop their sons from going with niggers. Power is in the eyes of the beholder.

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>>24080053
>...and the Last Man
never thought about it, but that was the intended goal of this globalizing liberal democratic system.

>>24080146
seething

>>24089485
Civic nationalism, and even “European proud” civic nationalism, is compatible with multi ethnic democracies. Literally just revert to pre 60s (pre widespread Marxism in Western universities) ideology. “America is the best country in the world, and America comes from Europe and was built by Europeans” was believed by everyone in America until recently. Now the mantra is, “America is evil, Europeans are worse, white people are devils, all the good stuff was made possible by slaves.” That is *literally* the thesis of the 1619 project, a project of the Newspaper of Record for the entire country. Journalists and academics in this country have been destroyed by Marxism. They have to be rooted out and replaced with new ones. If that happens, the revival we need is possible without any modifications to American institutions or laws.

The rot is a rot of the mind, and it has propagated from the universities to the newspapers to Hollywood to the people. The only way to fix the damage is to attack the nerve center, the Marxist universities and media.

>>24090220
>THE END IS NEAR WE'RE IN LATE IMPERIAL DECLINE THE FALL OF ROME WILL HAPPEN AGAIN WE'RE ALL GONNA BE RAPED AND OUR CHILDREN WE BE BROWN THIS IS SHARIA 1984 WAHH WAHHHH
Are these the words of a proud, noble people who have confidence in the values of their society?

>>24090428
If you believe degenerate neoliberal society can be saved, you also believe that degenerate Rome and degenerate Greece could be saved.

>>24090453
Have you been living under a rock? Can you not see that the elites that make immigration policy have different values than the bottom 99%? Just recently, did you ser how elon musk and peter thiel think of people? Mere economic units to be moved around.

>>24080053
Society has not fundamentally changed since he said this desu

>>24091613
The point is that all of this political discourse is for the sake of maintenance — these people have a society they believe in, they constantly assert that it’s objectively superior to all other cultures, and all of their political activism is therefore defensive in nature, just a means for refining something they already want to hold on to. This is consistent with what Fukuyama says about liberalism’s hegemony. The core system won’t change even if the people become hysterical retards, as they are now, because they’ll never for a moment consider that this system itself is the reason they’re hysterical retards. It’s always some outside force ruining things for them. In that sense his book has yet to be disproven

>>24082338
You'd think but no. For a religion so bent on mass world conversion the turnover rate is about half that not to mention that Islam and communism run parallel on the first point (when it comes to converting the "perverted west") and then you have disaffected white supremacists converting in droves to replace all the native apostates. It's a mess. And I doubt it will have staying power as the west continues to search for meaning.

>>24080053
I don’t want to be a sneering little shit, but September 12, 2001 called and it wants its take back

>>24085215
You have no idea what he is talking about.

>>24084784
Literally the opposite

>>24090453
What values does America have? What values did it ever have?

>>24080055
>>24080058
Well, it's a good thing that hegel never argued that

>>24091707
Only in regards to Western civilization in itself. The Russians are and will stay energically opposed yo liberalism. Rather than being Russians, they are anti-liberals. If it meant the end of liberalism, they'd stop being Russians.

>>24084912
You will find England had a lot to do with the spread of English