Dune is good
It was perfectly timed to capture the Lawrence of Arabia Orientalism wave and become a pop culture sensation, but it is terrible by every objective metric.
>>24088221>but it is terrible by every objective metric.Nope. It's good
>>24088215Dune sucks. Dune messiah is good though
>>24088215Dune is not good.But the Dune series is. The span of time and everything/everyone in it all together is as epic sci-fi as it gets.
>>24088215More like....Goon!
>>24088339What do you consider good?
>>24088355the feeling of power. power itself in man
>>24088215Book 1 was good, messiah was better but too short. I'm currently reading children of Dune but it's a bit of a chore to get through. Is this most people's experience with Dune especially the 3rd book.
>>24088215Yes. I enjoyed it bigtime; especially the ecology stuff.
>>24088392CoD would be good as a HBO series. Already was a miniseries so yeah. The unknown preacher scenes are some sword and sandals tier kino.
>>24088215That new wave covers are bad.The OG covers look better
>>24088339Retarded insight there anon
White savior story.
>>24088582I know it's actually about Paul's people manipulating the Fremen and exploiting them but come on - they kill their Harkonnen tormentors with the Baron literally being a gay pedo. You're rooting for Paul the whole time and he's cool as fuck in Messiah and Children of Dune.
>>24088235The book is obscenely bloated with lore dumps that slow the story down to a crawl.
Everyone claiming it's bad is a retarded contrarian who hasn't read deeply enough, or widely enough, to be qualified to have an opinionEven after all this time, there are significant unexplored depths to itI won't tip my hand for a long time yet though, and I've made many, many unique discoveries
>>24088348I don't get it
>>24088582This. Aged very poorly
Autism+drugs=Jesus.
>>24088610It's not bloated. Building a world takes time zoomer
>>24088744White savior except Jesus was brown
>>24088215Orientalism & Woodstock grade philosophy (LSD) -> Dune. There isn't any prose, the narration is bland and the plot is just blabbed to you. I just couldn't justify the time sink for what I might get out of it. Denis Villeneuve seemed to cast more depth and wonder into the scenery through film than the books could manage. After reading 100 pages of Sanderson before throwing out his pressed turd, I came to Dune hoping for an epic fantasy written well and was simply underwhelmed. Tbh I'm ready to give up on fantasy in general at this point and stick to non-fiction and classic literature. What am I missing by not reading it?
>>24088392Yes. it drags in book 3 and books 5 & 6 are best avoided2>=4>>1>>3>>>>>5>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>6
>>24089990Liking a novel for its prose is like enjoying a film for its camera quality(The habit of pseuds and philistines)Give up and go back to your slop
>>24088215
>>24090003Are 5 and 6 that bad? Coworker read them last year and said he liked heretics more than children. I've only read the first 2
>>24090015If a novel is going to read like a logbook, I'd rather read something useful like history or non-fiction. I don't think that registered with you. Now why should I read it? Also, horrible analogy.
>>24090015Bait
>>24088215Sure, if you're 13.
>>24088914World building should not come at the cost of the story's pacing. If I wanted to learn the history and culture of a people I've never heard of, I'd read a fucking history book.>I must gain the favor of the elders in order to gain power >But before that, I must tell you the history and structure of the elder council (that will only tangentially come into play for the actual story) for 50 pages>Repeat ad nauseum x20
>>240900205 was weak but readable, I dropped 6 halfwayToo much bene gesserit masturbation
>>24090087No, it's realProse is adult daycare tier slop, meant only for those with no reflection on what they readThe real joy of a good book comes after you have read it, the moment to moment prose is simply a vehicle for the art
>>24089990>Denis Villeneuve seemed to cast more depth and wonder into the scenery6/10, I chuckled
>>24090020Never goon
>>24088215Is there a single book in all of literature that better expresses the "tell, don't show" approach than Dune?
>>24091127Dune sucks so much. Herbert never showing anything gets old in messiah let alone the rest of the series
>>24088348
>>24090203Bait
>>24088215decent plot. i mean, it's space hamlet. but honest to god some of the worst fucking prose i've ever read in my life
>>24088610some of us like to read textbooks for fun.
>>24089990I agree with some things you said about the book but >DenisCome on anon, the movie wasn't terrible, looks good but it missed quite alot in the book. It's not the worst book adaptation but it's hardly the best or great.
>>24088635>>24088317>>24088339>>24088215In the intro to Dune Messiah, Brian Herbert says that he Frank Herbert believed the two most dangerous men in the world were John F. Kennedy and General George Patton, because of their 'messianic' followings, and this was one of the messages of the Dune series. He then goes on to say that Frank Herbert would have been one of the best US presidents if he was elected.
>>24091481>the movie wasn't terrible, looks goodimpressively stupid thing to say; let's contrast DUNC with Lawrence of Arabia>>24091645>Brian Herbert saysstopped reading
>>24091645He was right about Patton 100%
>>24091988>checkedOne problem there. Patton was right
>>24091756Dune looks more like a foreign planet low IQ anon
>>24091756Eww thanks for proving my point.
>>24091756>let's contrast DUNC with Lawrence of ArabiaWhy would arrakis look like Arabia?
>>24092292>>24092463I accept your concession>>24092579If you actually read the book, you'd encounter descriptions of terrestrial plants, different colors in rock strata, a sky that isn't dead grey, and much moreAll proving my claim above; not qualified to have opinions
>>24088215Yeah
>>24091367
Mushy soft sci fi slop for mush brains.
>>24092967>Dune should look like Lawrence of ArabiaYou're low iq
>>24093243>illiterate retard claims someone else is low iqlol, lmao
>>24093431I accept your concession
>>24093447>you accept that you're an illiterate retardI'm glad we're finally in agreement, good day
>>24093464>No response or rebuttal againI accept your concession
>>24093468correct your initial strawmanning and advance an actual claim or argument or continue to be a retard
>>24093476>Again with no substance or rebuttal I had you stumped from the beginning. The rest has been you seething
>>24093484>>24093476Christ, can both of you retards shut up?You faggots talk a whole lot about nothing and act like you're saying something.
>>24093492I did say something, as you can see here >>24092967the strawmanning from that to 'so you're saying DUNC should look exactly like Lawrence of Arabia' is obvious, and your 'both-sides-ism' is low-information retardation of a different flavor than the other guy, who will continue to say nothing instead of addressing the actual content because he has nothing substantive to say
>>24093511Now you're seething at another anon because you were bitched out by the first
>>24093522world's full of retards who need correction
>>24093527That's why you were called out
>>24093987exactly, retards like you crying out to be correctedhappy to oblige
>>24088610I felt that way when I first tried reading it as a young teenager. It seemed intimidating and impossible to get through. Now as an adult the first book seems too short. Aside from the duel with Feyd where he holds back, Paul is never in any real danger during the climax because he has god powers and I quickly found myself losing interest. I also wasn't a fan of how the book would introduce characters like Leto II (not the one in Children of Dune) or Fenring and then do nothing with them.
>>24091756>selection of one (1) random still proves anything
I think of it as an mediocre series everyone should read. The overall story isn't that great but the ideas are amazing. However if you haven't also read the works of Robert Graves, the Foundation Trilogy, A Princess of Mars and some other new wave sci-fi like Michael Moorcock's stuff some of the series references will probably go over your head. Books 5 and 6 are the best ones btw fuck all the haters.
>>24094055>the book would introduce characters like Leto II (not the one in Children of Dune) or Fenring and then do nothing with them.Paul's very young first son Leto dies when Alia is captured; I don't think it makes sense to judge his inclusion as pointless, and very little time is spent on him, so it's not as though he embodies some long digression that goes nowhereFenring is underexplored to the novel's detriment though; we needed to see more of what makes him tick in order to have better grounding for his refusal of the emperor's request at the end
>>24094068produce some examples of your own then>insisting that I spoonfeed everything to bad-faith faggots
>>24094104I thought it was implied that he refused because he was a failed Kwisatz Haderach, and had some of the same insight Paul did. I don't recall if this is established in Dune or Dune: Messiah but people with prescience cannot see each other. Paul cannot see Guild Navigators or those close to them except indirectly, by observing their "wakes". I know Paul mentions in the book that he's seen himself die, but has never seen who killed him, and only understands the reason when Fenring is there in person. Given this, Fenring could probably see enough to know that killing Paul would change nothing. Before his fight with Feyd and in regards to the Fremen Jihad Paul thinks something like: "If I loose they will say I ascended to lead them in spirit, and if I win they will say I cannot be killed." Killing Paul will just piss the Fremen off. Fenring decided to save Shaddam's life and that of his family rather than obeying his order. He may also have had some sympathy for Paul, having realized the destiny Fenring came close to.
>>24094171I will quote the passage>The Emperor turned, looked at Count Fenring. The Count met his stare—gray eyes against green. The thought lay there clearly between them, their association so long that understanding could be achieved with a glance.>Kill this upstart for me, the Emperor was saying. The Atreides is young and resourceful, yes—but he is also tired from long effort and he’d be no match for you, anyway. Call him out now…you know the way of it. Kill him.>Slowly, Fenring moved his head, a prolonged turning until he faced Paul.>“Do it!” the Emperor hissed.>The Count focused on Paul, seeing with eyes his Lady Margot had trained in the Bene Gesserit way, aware of the mystery and hidden grandeur about this Atreides youth.>I could kill him, Fenring thought—and he knew this for a truth.>Something in his own secretive depths stayed the Count then, and he glimpsed briefly, inadequately, the advantage he held over Paul—a way of hiding from the youth, a furtiveness of person and motives that no eye could penetrate.>Paul, aware of some of this from the way the time nexus boiled, understood at last why he had never seen Fenring along the webs of prescience. Fenring was one of the might-have-beens, an almost-Kwisatz Haderach, crippled by a flaw in the genetic pattern—a eunuch, his talent concentrated into furtiveness and inner seclusion. A deep compassion for the Count flowed through Paul, the first sense of brotherhood he’d ever experienced.>Fenring, reading Paul’s emotion, said, “Majesty, I must refuse.”>Rage overcame Shaddam IV. He took two short steps through the entourage, cuffed Fenring viciously across the jaw.>A dark flush spread up and over the Count’s face. He looked directly at the Emperor, spoke with deliberate lack of emphasis: “We have been friends, Majesty. What I do now is out of friendship. I shall forget that you struck me.”(Fenring's earlier appearance, at the arena where he speaks with Baron Harkonnen, is of no relevance).This is very weak in the absence of buildup: it's caprice, basically an example of an authorial 'because I said so'
>>24094052>No I answer Sounds about right my low IQ friend
>>24094095>Books 5 and 6 are the bestBait
>>24094283>bait>bait>baitLurk more, or maybe just leave foreverYou aren't interesting or funny, you do not belong here
>>24094278let us know when you have something relevant to the topic
>>24094095>the ideas are amazingThe questions it asks are important but the answers are dogshit. Herbert has no meaningful insight into reality.
>>24088215It’s astoundingly bad, especially after the first book. It’s one of those things where the fact that it’s popular lowers my respect for humanity.
>>24088392Each book gets worse, most people don’t get through all six because it only gets worse.
>>24088635Read actual literature
>>24089990> What am I missing by not reading it?At one point a woman orgasms from watching Duncan Idaho climb a wall.
>>24090015Leave
>>24091127This was echoing in my head so hard when I read it. Nothing was nearly ever expressed with movements, expressions, or actions, just artless exposition and omniscient internal dialogue. It’s so lazy and bad.
>>24091645The son he didn’t disown absolutely shitting on any possible legacy is gold
>>24094497Reading through all of the books that Herbert read as research for writing Dune is already too much on my plateOf course, you wouldn't have any idea what those are; I doubt you could even find the list
bump
>>24088582Maybe in the movies
>>24090045Go worship Schop somewhere else
>>24090045I bet everything he read was bad.
>>24094055>>24094104>>24094171>>24094238I interpreted Fenring to be representative of the rest of the Empire at large, which is literally the rest of the known galaxy, but is barely touched upon by the book. His refusal to champion the Emperor is supposed to echo House Corrino's failing influence (why Shaddam IV conspired against Leto in the first place). Paul's premonition that he would lose against Fenring on a macro scale would mean more that if the known galaxy actually still had faith in Corrino as a legitimate authority, the Jihad was doomed to fail.I also like Herbert's musings on politics and power more than any of the actual plot or characters though.
>>24096761>His refusal to champion the Emperor is supposed to echo House Corrino's failing influenceIt certainly does 'echo' it, but the problem is that there are effectively no details we can use to investigate the process by which he came to his decision, and the few details we have about him prior to the final encounter in >>24094238 (or even after, in the entry about him in Appendix IV) do not make his decision seem natural (in an epigram, Irulan refers to Fenring as [she thinks] Shaddam's 'one real friend', for example, and the Appendix describes him as Shaddam's 'childhood companion' and that 'all accounts agree that Fenring was the closest friend Shaddam IV possessed').One could make a post-hoc rationalization and say 'that's the point, muh furtiveness and inner seclusion even from us the readers', but even if this was the deliberate point, it doesn't make it satisfying or good. If the novel ever gave us a sense of what factors he was weighing, or if he just came to a sharp conclusion mirroring Paul's from earlier in the book, that Paul's death wouldn't stop the Jihad (and would in all likelihood lead to a lengthier period of chaos and instability, and the imminent gruesome deaths of himself and many others present besides), he would feel more like a person and less like a plot device.>I also like Herbert's musings on politics and power more than any of the actual plot or characters thoughSame
>>24088221Dune is actually star wars episode one.It's all about a young guy on a sand planet in a space opera who is involved in some prophecy but then subverts the lawful mainstream factions interpretation of it.
>>24091127Lovecraft's body of work is essentially founded upon that philosophy.
