If it was mandatory to read the bible do you think that would create more atheists or more believers?
>>24090350Atheists for sureT. Christian
In the short term, more atheists, probably.In the long term, given that most normies don't read anymore, the stories of the Bible would probably form some kind of consistent literary and ethical bedrock which they would refer back to. That would probably inspire more believers.
>>24090350More atheists. Not just because of the wild stories in the Bible but because many many people would resent having to read it.
>>24090350Probably more atheists since it's forced reading and not genuine. Maybe a gospel since they are short.
>>24090350Most American catholics and the like haven't read it.I imagine it'd be like that American Dad episode.
Making it mandatory would just make it hated. Otherwise I doubt it would create much of either except once in a while
>>24090350depends on the translation
>>24090350Depends, if they solely read the old testament then that is way too jewish (sociopathic, narcissistic, and persecution complex) but if they read the new testament then it will create more believers for the act of altruism and pure love demonstrated by Jesus
>>24090350I went from just regarding it as not really my thing to actively despising it as jewish drivel as a result of reading it. Probably a lot depends on context.
>>24090350If everybody read the bible - voluntarily - they would be Christian. Incidentally, most Jews and Muslims are literally not allowed to read the Bible by their religious authorities, and when exposed to it, have a strong tendency to conversion. With atheists/agnostics, it's something of a coin-toss, but leans more towards conversion than disillusion.On the other hand, as other people have already said in this thread, people tend to find compulsory activities onerous, and will sabotage them out of spite. If everyone was FORCED to read the bible against their will - regardless of the means - it would almost certainly cause mass apostasy simply out of contrarianism, since there's nothing people hate more than compulsion.
>>24090350Ezekiel 23:20 "There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses."Almighty God felt it absolutely necessary that in his most Holy of books, there are descriptions of dudes' donkey dicks and horse sized cumshots. Based or cringe?
>>24090350If nothing else it would solidify stances and would ultimately reduce agnosticism to single digitsI imagine a huge amount would reject both it and atheism and flock to something else, probably Buddhism
>>24090734Not to mention daughter-initiated incest. From Genesis 19:[30] And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.[31] And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:[32] Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.[33] And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.[34] And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our Father.[35] And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.[36] Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.But to answer your question...when I was a kid, I read the Bible, starting as a believer, and before long, became a nonbeliever, and an atheist well before the end. Even at the age of 8, I could tell what I was reading was total bullshit.
>>24091070It's allegory for the downstream effects of living in an amoral society. The daughters married amoral, non-religious men, and lived in Sodom which was the ancient equivalent of south Chicago or Portland. It was described as 'an abomination' in the eyes of God. It's not "God wanted you to read and enjoy le heckin incest."
>>24090564>most Jews and Muslims are literally not allowed to read the Bible by their religious authoritiesSo they only hear what the Imam/Rabbi reads out to them? Most Muslims don't have a Quran? How sure are you of this and how can that possibly be enforced?
not true, religious studies is a mandatory subject in primary school in my country and we still have like 80% identifying as christian, its an issue of conformance led by the elite
>>24091720>So they only hear what the Imam/Rabbi reads out to them?Yes, exactly. Jews run their own religious schools and anything past the Pentateuch (Torah) is taught very carefully because of the NT foreshadowing. The New Testament is basically forbidden reading. They have the idea that it's dangerous to read scripture without being instructed/guided by a rabbi. I don't know how it works with Muslims but I'm sure it's a similar situation.
>>24091688>It's allegorySays who? Is this "source: trust me bro"? Do you have a higher authority than something that claims to be the written word of God?
>>24090350Believers obviously, as long as "mandatory" just means mandatory reading in primary/secondary school like other books, not someone forcing you with a whip.>>24090546Old Testament should be prefaced by "this is what Jesus came to save us from" because many people still don't get it to this day.
>>24090404Which is why you need a more user-friendly and concise "sub-scripture" for the masses, for them to eventually be able to wrap their head around the main scripture. This is why having only one book is retarded. One size doesn't fit all. People are not the same. They all have their own IQ's, capacity, perspectives (formed from their upbringing and lives they lived), and levels of consciousness. If you want people to learn math, you don't throw a giant tome of calculus in their face. You need to start small and ease them into it.
>>24090350funny how historically speaking, the rise of atheism coincided with the rise of people actually reading that thing
>>24092135Do I seriously have to explain allegorical analysis on /lit/? The majority of the Bible is allegory and there are many allusions to that within the text.
>>24092155What period are you talking about, when you say "the rise of atheism"?
>>24092145>God came to save us from the world God createdyeah, that'll clear things right up
cant be sure. but it would make people smarter generally.
>>24092185On what basis do you claim the Bible is allegory, as opposed to the ineffable word of God? Is this position supported by the Church? And if it is...why should anyone give two shits what the Bible says? Without being the word of God, it's nothing. One may as well base their life on the Canterbury Tales.
>>24090350>If it was mandatory to read the bible do you think that would create more atheists or more believers?Just the Bible? Way, way more atheists, unless you teach them hermeneutics.Proof is the fella above me.
>>24092313>hermeneuticsSo people have to be taught how to interpret texts the "right" way? Who decides what that is? And if it's not God, then what's the point?Frankly, I don't see why religion and spirituality can't be analyzed scientifically; there's literally nothing else in human experience that requires "faith", and there's no reason religion should, either. Faith is a bunch of abusive medieval bullshit.
>>24092340>So people have to be taught how to interpret texts the "right" way? Nope. It's about knowing how to interpret text. Lots of people are unaware of what they are doing when they interpret a text.Like (You).>Who decides what that is?Various elements decide it, for example: the genre of the text, the paragraph of the word you are interpreting, the author of the text using these two elements, etc.>And if it's not God, then what's the point?Well, God uses various methods to teach us the Truth.He doesn't stop at a literal meaning.>Inb4 How do you know that?Because the world doesn't have four corners (Ezekiel 7:2).>I don't see why religion and spirituality can't be analyzed scientificallyThe Bible is not a scientific book.>there's literally nothing else in human experience that requires "faith"Science requires faith.>Faith is a bunch of abusive medieval bullshit.I really like how Trent Horn puts it: faith means to trust. It doesn't mean having a delusion.You say that during the middle ages people would have faith in the Bible.But during the middle ages it was established that earth in not flat.They didn't stop science.Quoting Proverbs 10:14, quoting sir Francis Bacon... I mean you are uncultured.Watch this course on the relationship of Science and Religion by dr. Lameroux, please.It's free and only 20 hours long. https://coursera.org/learn/science-and-religion-101
>>24092236>>24092236NTA but OT Judaism had two purposes for GodFirst, it was transitional religion between paganism and Christianity, a lot of it stories deconstruct paganism. Pharaohs' change between Joseph and Exodus shows that kings with so called mandate from Heaven will go wrong. Job was about bad things happening to holy men instead and why denial of this caused friends to be shitty in face of misfortuneSecond, it was giving a chance for people to follow God's instructions for forming a Holy Nation, even when said instructions were more complex than "do not eat that particular fruit" which had proven to be too difficult. Which is why Jews had retarded ideas like emulating pagan kings or, ultimately, killing the Son of GodWhich is why Christ's teachings were about voluntarism in religion
>>24092302
I don't think the Bible made me an atheist, but it definitely made me not believe in christianity anymore. There was one particular passage in the Gospels that did it for me, where a heathen woman comes to Jesus and asks him to heal her daughter and Jesus replies, I'm paraphrasing from memory: "I was sent here to save the lost sheep of Israel, I'm not concerned with the dogs. The heathen woman then replies that even a dog gets the crums from the table after the master was done eating and after that response Jesus then decides to heal her daughter after all. No matter how you'd interpret this, those are simply not the words of god or the son of god. Those are words of an incredibly small-minded, tribal person. Jesus as the son of god couldn't have possibly said something this tribal, so the only logical conclusion I can come to is that either his words were misinterpreted or not faithfully written down or he was not the son of god.
>>24092694Even the jews whose schrick is moral universalism can‘t keep from letting the mask drop sometimes
>>24092340>muh private interpretationIf a law is passed and someone breaks it, their defense cannot be "well I interpreted it differently."The text means nothing if there isn't an intended interpretation, and there must be some authority who can interpret it. Since the Scripture is the word of God, that means only He has the authority to interpret it or to delegate interpretation to a human authority. Let's not forget that the Canon of the Scripture, as we know it now, was officially decided in the Third Century by the Catholic Church, mostly with the purpose of distinguishing between the actual reliable Scriptures and heretical nonsense like the various apocryphal "gospels" that were written in the first few centuries AD. Considering that most Protestant factions don't even claim to have an objectively correct interpretation of the Bible, whose headcanon is more reliable than the millennia-old interpretation taught by the Catholic Church?
>>24092302>One may as well base their life on the Canterbury Tales.Which, incidentally, would not exist at all, without the Bible.
>>24092694The entire point of this exercise was to show his disciples that they shouldn't be racist pieces of shit (i.e. Jews) but that even the people from a cannibalistic human sacrifice religion/tribe can have faith, and probably greater faith than the Jews had.
>>24092694>the Son of God often spoke in terminology understamdable to the people among whom He lives>bro I'm quitting Christianity
>>24090350Atheists on the whole but I doubt it would move the needle much. There are a lot of Christians who acknowledge the book is mess and they just like the overall message and societal rules.
>>24090429Catholics aren't supposed to read it.Catholics aren't qualified to read and understand the Bible correctly without proper education in the work (like priests at the minimum). Catholics aren't even supposed to talk to God personally. They pray to Mary because she was a vanilla human to act as a mediator and Priests lead direct prayers to God because they have the authority to do so.It's like they are supposed to fear interacting with God personally because you are most likely a piece of shit and getting His full attention would get smote.
Christians are such disgusting liars and pseudo intellectuals
>>24093090Are you completely retarded LMFAO. Who told you any of that?
>>24093107Why would Christians want to become intellectuals in the first place, anon?
>>24093079>they just like the societal rulesStoning whores?
>>24090350Idk if it was mandatory for Christians to actually read it we would probably have more Christians because we could reflect gods grace and forgiveness more accurately instead of just being exploited or being sinful through our hate
>>24090350Atheists>>24090360We already have that background. Theres a canon of child-friendly stories from the bible that everyone knows. >>24092340The right way is whatever way rationalises the bible for modern audiences. I doubt this would work on any non-christians, because its grounded on believing the bible is ck2hvdvorrect.
>>24093090Let me guess, you were told this by a Freemason (or a Jew)?
>>24090360>the stories of the Bible would probably form some kind of consistent literary and ethical bedrock which they would refer back toThat's (or at least used to be) Western society dude.
>>24091720Muslims have a Quran, and they often memorize it very easily (it's shorter than the New Testament), but they are indoctrinated almost from birth that Christians are idolaters and pagans and that their scriptures are "fake" and "corrupt" and not to ask any questions about it, because if they start to use their brain cells they realize that the Quran relies on the Bible for information and theology. They overwhelmingly rely on the Hadiths to inform their religion because the Quran is a barebones and self-contradictory jumble.This is how they excuse massacreing them by the way; the quran says the "people of the book" are a muslim's betters, and should be deferred to and protected at all costs, but they get around this by saying that the "people of the book" no longer exist, but somewhere along the line (they never specify where, since this would debase their own religion as Christianity had 500-600 years headstart on Islam) it got corrupted into something else and therefore modern Christians aren't really people of the book and you can commit whatever foul cruelties you want against them.
hj
>two more millennia
>>24090555same here
the daodejing is where it's at
>>24090350More atheists
>>24092145>>24092145>Old Testament should be prefaced by "this is what Jesus came to save us from" because many people still don't get it to this day>>"Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished." (Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior, Matthew 5:17-18)>>>till heaven and earth pass away
>>24096253Protip: Jesus wasn't autistic like you.
>>24090350Atheists. It would be done in the same dull and precarious way all mandatory reading is done at school, making the students more compelled to reject the material (and consequently the religion associated with it).
>>24091817>anything past the Pentateuch (Torah) is taught very carefully because of the NT foreshadowingI have no idea where you get this idea. Most people I know who aren't Christians are actively confused by this argument as the OT seems to contemplate someone very different than Jesus, and it's obvious to people that the NT was written to try and argue that Jesus was the Messiah. It's like when Muslims try and prove some random verse in the Quran predicted something in science, or try and prove the literal splitting of the moon. It's amazing how terrible apologetics have gotten at this point, clearly why it's a dying religion.
>>24093107It's Christians who emphasize the study of logical reasoning and epistemology in order for one to be able to discern the true from the false. If Christianity is just sophistry, why would they encourage people to seek objective truth?
>>24091817>NT foreshadowingThe OT prophecies are not particularly compelling, and the ones that correspond to the New Testament have the New Testament comically bend to accommodate them. >Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.Take Isaiah 7:14, Paul and Mark don't even mention the immaculate conception, Matthew brings up the virgin birth and has to argue that "his name is Immanuel" is a figurative way of calling him God. The only prophecy that is in any way compelling is Zechariah 12:10>I will pour out a spirit of grace and prayer on David’s family line. I will also send it on those who live in Jerusalem. They will look to me. I am the one they have pierced. They will mourn over me as someone mourns over an only child who has died. They will be full of sorrow over me. Their sorrow will be just like someone’s sorrow over an oldest son.I don't know about the grammatical interpretation but the people who focus on the me->him change ignore the part about destroying the nations of the world. Even if the part that appears to foreshadow christology could actually be interpreted in that way, that ignores that christology was developed to conform to the prophecies.
>>24096498Don't forget "But thou, Bethlehem Ephrathah, which art little to be among the thousands of Judah, out of thee shall one come forth unto Me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth are from of old, from ancient days." They had to invent a census that never existed, and have Mary make an 160 mile round trip while heavily pregnant because this census anomalously required returning to your distant ancestors.
>>24096389you've never once looked into the messianic prophecies of the tenakh. jesus' humble beginnings and crucifixion even down to the town he was born in and the date he will arrive in jerusalem is foreshadowed. that other anon is right; jews aren't well read in isaiah, jeremiah and the others because of this.
>>24097001>town he was born inSee >>24096528
It would create more right-wing atheists and left-wing Christians.
>>24091070Daddy was awake the entire time
>>24097023it was 90 miles for a newly pregnant woman to undertake, in most likely a caravan, and the census is historically supported. you're trying to debunk what i said by pointing to one thing which has historical evidence supporting it.
>>24090350atheists
>>24097129Matthew 2:1>After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem Luke Luke 2:2>This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of SyriaThe census of Quirinius happened in 6AD. Herod I died in 1AD at the latest, but probably 4BC. Jesus was born way before the census. Also, the census is a contrivance, a census has census-takers, you don't have to register at a city over a week away.
>>24090350I'm currently trying to read the bible but its hard. I skipped Genesis and Exodus because theres too much written about them, and got stuck in an anthropology rabbit hole in Leviticus. Is there any source that consolidates all the relevant literature on the Bible? (anthropological, historical, archaeological, linguistic, etc)
>>24091720>>24091817in countries that have muslim majorities but other minority religions, muslims are generally forbidden from reading works relating to other religions. example, pic related. i picked up this book at a buddhist temple in malaysia. on the back cover it clearly says "for non muslims only". on the other hand muslims are free to push their barbaric shit on whoever they choose.
>>24090350of course i can only speak for myselfbut when i was a kid i went to a faith school for a couple of years. it wasn't a really hardcore one but we did get taught bible stories as being literally true- noah's ark, the feeding of the five thousand, david and goliath, all that. i was one of those annoying kids who likes to ask questions and believe me there is nothing more certain to turn someone into a dedicated atheist than being told something is true and not being able to question it"so how did they get penguins onto the ark? penguins don;t live in-" "they just did ok"
>>24097191First, many scholars note that Luke was well-aware of the census of 6 AD, and mentions it in Acts 5:37: “…Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered.” This is why Luke explicitly states that “This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria”. Saying there is no evidence for an earlier census is an argument from silence. It might even be Josephus mis-dating these events.There is a precedent that, “all those who for any cause whatsoever are residing outside of their provinces [are] to return to their own homes” for a census from Prefect, Gaius Vibius Maximus in Papyrus 904.The point in all this is that this is disputed with real historical details surrounding it and it's a gigantic stretch to assert that it was "made up" by a non Jew to support the narrative.
>>24097727Ok but if it's the word of God why did God not know about a census lmfao Christcuck loser?
>>24090350If it was made mandatory everyone would hate it (see: Russians with Dostoevsky, Americans with all literature in general)It would also be criticized far more, simply because far more people have actually read it (and not those meme Christian groups that just cherrypick a few verses) so they know all of the weird shit in it
>>24092153>more than bookThey have it. Its called the Ante-Nicene Fathers, and a canon of saints.
>>24090734It's part of a protracted identification of idolatry with prostitution.>>24091688You omitted the actual important part>[37] The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today.>[38] The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.which, in assigning a debased origin to the enemies of the Israelite nation, places it in the same genre as the curse of Ham.A major concern in Genesis is prefiguring the contemporary relations between the nations in the mythic paternal history.
>>24090350Well it was mandatory in most of the US until pretty recently so I'd say you already have your answer.
