How do you come up with an interesting plot? I feel like I can write well enough, especially dialogue and such, once I have an idea for a chapter, but just my mind comes up blank when I want to think up a long-form story to write.

>>24682955
Do these things have interesting plots? I just figured it was like a madlib. The day I was reincarnated as a (noun). After that, it’s just about the character becoming more and more powerfuller and learning that the big bad was actually just flunky to an even bigger baddier guy.

>>24682955
Rip off your favorite media (or whatever work your current project is most inspired by) while changing around the peculiars to not make it too derivative, of course.

Make sure you're upfront about your inspirations so you won't come off as a plagiarist.

>>24682955
Outline, read. Don't write what you know write what you love

>>24682960
>>24682964
I started writing a fanfiction story, completely ad libbing it from the start. It worked well at the start, since the idea was "what would happen if instead X" and spitball from there, taking it through the natural consequences. It got good reception, especially on the dialogue. But now I'm at a point where I have no real idea where to take it in such a way so as to craft an interesting story besides the dialogue.

>>24682949
Nevermind, put 'non-human lead' on the blacklist and now I can look at the front page again. Just gotta remind myself to take it down in the future.

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Never give up. Keep writing, no matter what

>>24682955
Personally? I watch a lot of anime and read a lot of Japanese light novels.
You don't need to be too original. It's not so much about the destination as it is the journey. All the middle stuff is basically "okay I want to have all these cool scenes I came up with or liked in other media, so I need bits connecting them and at the end there's a climax okay done."

One of the stories I'm going to write in the next few years is about a guy who gets isekai'd and the head of the church tries to kill him so he kills the isekai pope. A bunch of cool power-fantasy stuff happens in the middle. Boom, there's the plot.

if anyone wanted to check out some hard-core smut.
https://sharetext.io/ea2dfc1d

>>24682975
Just add rape.

I can't stop myself from unleashing the feature creep in my outlining phase. I feel that it's better for me to be the only one to bear witness to how often I scrapped the first arc because I jumped into things half-heartedly and came to regret the direction things were headed towards because I didn't have a strong enough sense of what I wanted to do.

>>24682976
you should have blacklisted litrpg instead

>>24682997
The Kaifuku school of writing.
>>24683002
I'm mostly okay with litRPG's (though I don't think I'm reading many at the moment), it's just the monster girl spam that bothers me.

Does it affect me in any way if I dust off an old account to post a story?

>>24682955
>How do you come up with an interesting plot? I feel like I can write well enough, especially dialogue and such, once I have an idea for a chapter, but just my mind comes up blank when I want to think up a long-form story to write.
You have all the tools you need. Writing half decent, and you said you're comfortable with dialog. If you really look at a lot of paperbacks the premise itself isn't that outlandish.
1) crime? There's been a crime. This is the investigation or the revenge.
2) your isekai and rpg tropes are no different. Basic plot, attacked with credible writing and ability to do dialog.
3) the list goes on. Man vs environment added on top of man vs man. ("Deathwatch", anyone?)
4) Trapped under or in something. "Poseidon adventure", stallone's "daylight" or trapped ia cave. (bonus ff something is in the cave with them)
>
Then you pick up little advice here and there. I learned a couple months ago about not using all "ly" words over-used. I just got another mention of "tense", so I need to do an exercise to see about that and analyze it.
>
One advice I found and liked I never would have thought of? Filler. Don't do it. Instead of filler, just make a tiny sub-plot. Most sub-plots peter out and go nowhere. But its like a maze. You go down many blind alleys and come back to what you eventually discern is "the path" to get through. That's what a mystery or thriller is like. Little sub-plots instead of filler, I loved that advice.
>
But definitely try a basic premise.

>>24683016
Do you have dropped stories? Created some beef with other authors? The former can push away readers who will have low trust on your capacity of serialization (if they check, of course); the latter could make it harder to network, if you're Hidden Gems level or something.
If neither is a problem, I don't see why not.

>>24682982
I read a lot of asian webnovels myself. It's unfortunate there's no narou equivalent in the west, things would be so much easier if I wasn't compelled to add art.

>>24682955
>How do you come up with an interesting plot?
I don't. My story is character moments and fight scenes, the plot is stupid.

>>24683040
Over half the reason for my writer's block in my own work is figuring out what else to put in between all the epic character moments I thought up so it resembles a coherent narrative.

>>24682955
I think of some cool shit and figure out the steps it would take to get there.

>>24682964
Yes, because web novels are nothing but offshoots of better media. Shameful.

>>24683034
What difference are you seeing between narou and RR? I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about (I have read on both sites).

>>24683034
There's Honeyfeed who has the blessing of the allmighty Kadokawa. But the size of the userbase is... Grim, honestly.
No real equivalent site for LN-like web novels.

>>24683082
I'm amazed at the audacity for them to come up with that isekai contest. I am completely filtered out without ever getting a shot, and I have isekai plots thought up.

>>24683073
Cover art, or lack thereof, like Re:Zero.

>>24683087
Yep, and even if you do, they want you to suck up eachother to make up for the lack of readers. That's why people post their work online right? So that they can read other people's work of course. All while keeping your story hostage through the event.
I just gave up and I'll posting straight to RR, also maybe ScribbleHub where the competition is less fierce.

>>24682978
based bro

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If I have a loli or hebe heroine how much have I successfully ensured my erasure?

>>24683090
Are you trying to be unclear on purpose?
You're upset that there's no site like narou, except for RR, because RR has cover art and narou doesn't?
So RR is narou+coverart for your purposes, and that upsets you.
>things would be so much easier if I wasn't compelled to add art.
You're not compelled. Adding cover art is optional
>but then my work looks like shit!
Yeah because you're lazy and won't bother to compete
>if it was narou everyone would be forced to compete at my preferred level of effort!

Anon, if I understand you correctly, you're actually a bad person. Someone who wants to hobble everyone else to bring them down to their own level is simply a bad person.

Please tell me I misunderstood you. Jesus Christ I'm getting upset enough to need to step away from the computer. I wasn't ready for this first thing on a saturday morning.

>>24683133
If you don't sexualize it? None: https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/92193/the-little-necromancer-litrpg
If you do? Looking foward to your dox I guess.

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>>24683133
worked fine for my story :)

>>24683073
>What difference are you seeing between narou and RR?
NTA but narou is an actually respectable host focused on bringing you the works of aspiring authors in the best possible clarity, respectfully content first, and not an ad-riddled zoomer trap full of annoying bling-bling-wahoo that turns writing into a retarded horse race

>>24683135
Pure text with no ancillary bloat WOULD be an improved webnovel platform. Basically the AO3 format.
But it's understandable why it doesn't happen.

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>>24683148
FUCK OFF SPELLRHYTHM

>>24683150
Can RRetards tell me of one, simply one, webnovel on there that successfully made the jump to tradpublishing with a television adaptation with RR's help? Any at all?

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>>24683157
douzo.
us newsstand culture is dead though so there's naturally much less capacity for good webnovels to get small cheap print editions to sell to bored high schoolers like in JP.

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>>24683143
>If you don't sexualize
If I meant that I'd never bother asking and have some child character in the background.
Hebe is not merely a shorthand for hebephilia, it is the name of Heracles' wife, the goddess of youth.
Allow me to restate, when I say heroine I mean love interest.

>>24683148
Congrats :)

>>24683148
I know this story is no good because albino hebes are my fetish and the main heroine is so charmless I feel zero lust towards her even after 20 chapters.

>>24683165
fucking hell litrpg trash is going to start infesting movies and television too?

>>24683165
>grabbed the rights
Getting rescued from RR is not the same thing as having RR's help thoughbeit

>>24683165
New low for American television.

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>>24683173
>going to

>>24683168
You would be walking on a thin line.

>>24683135
For starters I said it was unfortunate, not that I was upset.
For another I never said anything about how it looked. I merely lamented that there's a higher emphasis placed on visuals which hurts pure writers because then they're forced to focus on things besides writing.
I think you do need to take a step back from the computer californiabro.
>>24683152
Understandable for the wrong reasons. I for one blame the general willful ignorance of the publishing industry that male readers would love to buy novels that pander to them.

>>24683168
Give me examples of hebes you like so I can decide if you have good taste or not. The absence of taste means your hebe will be guaranteed to be of poor quality.

>>24683169
Honestly, Vivi is Frieren if somehow she was even more autistic. Funny that I didn't notice the ressemblance until someone pointed it out.

>>24683195
>Funny that I didn't notice the ressemblance
the author specifically mentioned frieren as one of the series she was inspired by in the blurb... i thought it was pretty obvious

>>24683202
I must've missed that, sorry. But I do remember that one author note cited Overlord and Land of Leadale. Also the blurb right now doesn't cites anything of the sort, so they must've changed it at some point since you've read it.

>>24683207
ah maybe it was only on the reddit shill post

Why is Mother of learning so higly praised?

There is no emotion in the story, it's like a historical recount.

There are no stakes, barely any thought, there are no meaningful relationships.

There is no payoff at the end.

What the fuck was even the point of reading that dogshit. There's literally NOTHING to take away from the story, nothing to feel good or bad about. The masses are just fucking retarded.

Even though TWI has lizardfucking and i had to drop it because of that i can definitely say it's way better.

>>24683017
Alright, thanks for the advice; I'll look up some stories to plagiarize.

>>24683252
all popularity is random

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>>24683185
I'd say closer to jumping on a live wire myself!
>>24683194
Can't go wrong with Megumi.
>Megumin?
Yes. But Megumi from Eromanga Sensei has a legendary scene for a side character.

Can someone recommend me some progression fantasy? But stuff that has meaningful relationships, emotion, interesting progression and payoff.

I don't understand how i always start reading some trash that is considered peak.

Read LOTM - complete dogshit. I knew chinks couldn't write anything good but still finished it.

Read Shadow slave - pretty good actually, thoughi don't like the part about everyone forgetting.

Read Mother of learning - complete dogshit on the level of LOTM, actually worse.

Read TWI - had to drop because of casual hookups and interspecies relationships.

In my setting magic has been commodified. Anyone can use wands or scrolls that perform a preprogrammed spell. In such a setting, would there still be wizards? And if so, what would make them special?

>>24683285
There are still computer programs and linux nerds today, so I'd assume there'd still be wizards.

>>24683285
In reality, electronics have been commodified. Anyone can use smartphones and computers to perform preprogrammed tasks. In such reality, there are programmers. They are special because they can create new programs for mass usage or specific for their problems.

>>24683044
>Over half the reason for my writer's block in my own work is figuring out what else to put in between all the epic character moments I thought up so it resembles a coherent narrative.
>
you're looking for filler. Make up a small sub-plot that goes nowhere instead. Some sub-plots go on longer than others that peter out. One of those "sub-plots" though, is the right path. It keeps the story from being too linear. Writer and reader are (probably) already both checking off items on a list. Don't let them guess and anticipate the plot too. The sub-plots in place of the needed filler provide the extra you need to disguise the true path as well as fill out with something more substantial than pillow ticking.

>>24683275
Practical Guide to Sorcery

>>24683188
>I merely lamented that there's a higher emphasis placed on visuals which hurts pure writers because then they're forced to focus on things besides writing.
I spend more time learning everything else on top of trying to come up to speed with the writing itself. And being forced to self-edit is torture. Let alone expected to do it well.

>>24683302
I've tried that but all I end up doing is transforming the filler to turn it into real plot instead, defeating the purpose of it being easy and making it even more unwieldy...

>>24683285
>improvisation/control
You can buy a wand that shoots a rock at someone, pointing straight. But you can't curve it ad hoc. Or your spell shoots a single rock, but the enemy is moving too fast, so it's more practical to grind the rock into smaller pieces and lob those as a set instead, like buckshot.

>adaptation
The merchant that hired you has a magic water fountain, a magic radiator, and some self-defense wards. It turns out that the bridge you were planning on walking over is broken, and the merchant didn't bring anything for that. You use a spell that freezes the water and you cross over.

>power
The scroll you're using has a power source, but stronger spells require a stronger power source, and the cost of such a power source becomes too large, if it's even possible. Perhaps you need to recharge it at a special spot. The wizard can regenerate mana with time, and his biological power source is more immediately powerful.

>interference
Wizards have the fine control to interfere with the scrolls when used by an amateur, perhaps disabling them or backfiring them. Using magic scrolls gives you an advantage, at the risk of being a huge disadvantage if the enemy has a wizard in its ranks.

>>24683260
ngmi, even elf from the same series would have been a better answer.

>>24683312
>And being forced to self-edit is torture.
Why do you guys hate editing so much? I like taking my rough draft and cleaning it up. Toying with sentences to improve clarity and flow is enjoyable. I'd rather do it than write fresh prose a lot of the time (though maybe that's just because it's easier and less stressful)

>>24683363
>Why do you guys hate editing so much?
feels like being stuck on old content instead of producing new content for the slop-consuming hogs is one reason I guess

>>24683363
To a certain extent, it's fine and valid to have likes and dislikes regarding certain aspects of the writing process (and specific to webnovel serializing, the marketing aspects of making a cover, shilling it, etc).
But past a certain point, it's a cope. Either a cope for why they're lazy and never put anything out, or a cope for why they're failing to draw an audience. Inevitably, when whiners actually put forward a writing sample, it's bad. We're not talking about Samuel Clemens level writing where the author is objectively good, but dislikes certain aspects of writing. Their egos just can't handle being bad at something and so they come up for excuses as to why it's not their fault or why they never produce anything.
What I wrote was harsh but I believe it's true. These people don't need writing exercises, they need to change their attitude.

>>24683363
I don't. I just cant be bothered cursory editing to show progress for wip drafts. I already know people will ignore it anyway so its energy I could be spent writing it instead.

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Reverend Insanity is genuinely bizarre to me
not the novel itself, but the way I see it online

It's almost all one of these:
a) people who gave it a shot and didn't enjoy it
b) people who dislike it because of its tone and/or Fang Yuan as a character
c) seething, frothing at the mouth, howling, schizo spergs who will write a 2000+ word essay on why RI is the greatest work of literature ever created and FY is literally God in real life and you should REPENT for daring to so much as consider not reading RI in its entirety every day as worship

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I wrote my first story :)

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/128737/the-wheel-and-the-wing

>>24683565
I don't think my [Reading] level is high enough to read this.

>>24683565
Hey, I recognize you. You are one of Zucchini's anon friends, right?
>4 chapters in 17 days
Anon, what are you doing?

>>24683554
c) is correct btw

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>>24683275
Reverend Insanity remains the gold standard. It helps by being one of the very few where you can tell the author had an outline even before he started it. Obviously there's pacing issues here and there, as in any serial, but there's almost always something new and exciting happening in the narrative.
Even the meta story surrounding its abrupt cancellation reflects on the themes found in the story. You owe it to yourself to read through it.

>>24683589
Not all of us are min-maxing RR.

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>>24683554

>>24683352
It was hard for me to choose if that makes you feel any better.

>>24683363
Because my drafts are so irredeemable that it's better to rewrite it from scratch instead. When I say self editing what I really mean is redrafting.

>>24683656
I never got further than him sacrificing the granddaughter(?) of some elder(?) and becoming a village honcho himself.

>>24683691
You were unironically successfully filtered. She had it coming anyway btw

>>24683698
Oh, I don't mean to suggest I had a moral issue with it or whatever. Simply that I got bored around that point and stopped reading and never came back to it. My bookmark is still on the next chapter around that point. His grind and non-stop explanations of the power system filtered me more than anything.

>>24683554
Me? I think it's bretty gud

>>24683709
It's important worldbuilding.

>>24683709
I'm glad I don't write litrpg or progression stuff, so that I filter everyone.

>>24683714
This post and posts like this are actually incredibly valuable.
THIS is what people want.
>His grind and non-stop explanations of the power system filtered me more than anything.
>It's important worldbuilding.
And now I see why people don't like when my MC struggles and fumbles around with the power system and earns his achievements and the reader can see that. They don't really want that. The explanation IS the earn. The grind is just aura farming. Character arcs just aren't seen as important when there's a new bit of worldbuilding or power system explanation the writer could be doing instead.
I will meditate on this and cultivate my slop further.

>>24683714
Might be true, but is it too much to ask for him to tell it in an interesting way? The bar is both lower and higher for MTLslop edited by a third worlder, so I feel like it's not such a huge ask. I got through all of Warlock of the Magus World, Release That Witch, Tales of the Reincarnated Lord and Black Iron's Glory, Throne of Magical Arcana, etc. and I'd easily say those all managed to jump the hurdle of telling their story in a way that doesn't bore me to treats. Like, there has just got to be a better way man. The worldbuilding just can't be this fucking boring in the delivery.

>>24683656
I don't like cultivation chinkshit, I'd like some western progression fantasy

>>24683731
Dunno what to tell you, I've reread it and had fun. Ironically I couldn't deal with any of those, none of them hooked me the same way. It is pretty interesting to hear about how gu work, how the MC does his best, and hearing why. Even the girl, from her introduction to her death, is tied to Gu and how society works in that world. Nothing else compares to how intertwined the setting is with the unique power system he had to take time to explain. In fairness the podunk village arc is oft memed as such but if you got filtered,that's not my problem. For one calling it boring, you're much a bore.

>>24683728
Except Fang Yuan struggles a lot, and saying it was worldbuilding was the most succinct way I could put it to someone who's clearly got an axe to grind.

>>24683736
Then enjoy Infinite Bloodcore.

>>24683656
>can tell the author had an outline
many web authors do seem to just be outlining from hype moment to hype moment with the connective tissue and storytelling logic being badly executed/planned which in turn make the big moments feel shitty too
it's a lot of "...and then..." thinking rather than causal storytelling

>>24683752
That's not an outline. What I was talking about was a real outline. I meant that as a good thing, that you know he's going somewhere with it like in a real story.

>>24683763
Oh yeah I wasn't very clear, I know what you're saying and agree
I meant most web authors I see do that
GZR was instead setting stuff up sometimes hundreds of chapters in advance
I think all the writing gurus are shilling overrated shit especially storytelling theory but a little bit can go a long way

Why are there so few western fantasy progression web novels? I mean good ones. Started reading Cradle it almost seems like written by a high-schooler. Is this what people really like? Pirateaba seems like a genius compared to other writers, no matter how unlikeable her characters are and how degenerate they are.

>>24683787
>Pirateaba
Practice makes perfect.

>>24683034
>>24682955
You're not 19th century short story pilled and it shows.
80% of all writing problems are the result of the writer not keeping a nonstop influx of short stories into their brains.
Long form epics are an aberration.
A fun aberration sure.
But you need to have the basics on lockdown.
Go read all those Weird Tales before you try to write a huge doorstopper and while you write it too.

>>24683787
>Cradle
the mc being called Wei Shi Lindon turned me off immediately
goofy shit

>>24683787
Probably because the idea is incredibly new and spun off of video games where exponential power growth is considered normal?
IRL you can't just 1000x your strength or speed in your lifetime. Achilles was ALREADY strong when the Iliad starts.

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>>24683787
Only the oriental mind comprehends the pleasures of perpetual self-improvement.

>>24683810
>>24683804
These.
Like take capeshit, right?
The origin story *is* the training arc.
Once you're Super™ all further power improvements come in jumps as they're needed

>>24683804
Oh look, yet another person lacking imagination. This is the kind of person who only writes war stories because they are "meh realistic".

>>24683825
>The origin story *is* the training arc.
100 pushup
100 situps
100 squats
and a 10 kilometer run
every
single
day

>>24683363
>Why do you guys hate editing so much?
because one anon reads a chapter? Oh, its fine not bad at all. Another anon reads same chapter? This is unreadable garbage! You misused a participle pghrase! A comma! Get rid of all this, make it one line! Now that? That's okay, you can leave that in! But this this is shit!
Next anon?
Really not bad at all.
that's where editing makes me itch.
I *used* to enjoy editing as busy work. Not any more.

>>24683832
I'm writing a progression story right now. I read tons of them. BTDEM's last chapter had stats in like the quadrillions or some shit.
I was answering the question, which was why there aren't any good progression fantasy stories. The concept is new, that's all.

>>24683804
>>24683825
The Jade Emperor was cultivating before your great great great great great great yee yee ass looking grandpappy was a twinkle in his grandaddy's eye

>>24683848
How about you just stop injecting random commas and question marks? Like this? And write like a normal human. Okay Tina? If I can notice? You writing, like this? Then you clearly have a problem.

>>24683857
What can you tell me about yours?
Which ones are your favorite?

>>24683883
I can smell you from here. Go take a shower and go to the gym, fatass.

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>>24683589
yeah..! send me a message if you'd like

>Anon, what are you doing?

life stuff in the way..

>>24683891
>yeah..! send me a message if you'd like
I just think it's nice the three of you are doing a launch together. Godspeed.
>life stuff in the way..
I see, happens to all of us.

>>24683883
Mine is deeply flawed. Pacing issues, passive protag for the first third, not explicit enough in some areas. I misunderstood what the audience really wants >>24683728. I finished volume two a couple weeks ago but looking at my viewer retention I really need to re-write and condense a lot of it before it I finalize it for amazon (no, I don't get big sales, but why not?).

My next stories will be much better. I've learned a lot.

I really enjoyed Azarinth Healer and parts of BTDEM, although I have a LOT of critique for BTDEM. Selkie fucked up at the elf arc (volume 5 iirc) and never stopped fucking up after that. I also binged Beware of Chicken recently and quite enjoyed it. I'll copypaste my follow list in no particular order.

Dungeon Diver: Stealing A Monster’s Power
Just Add Mana
Magpie Girl Evolution [The Magpie and The Archmage]
Cat Girl Evolution
The Pinnacle Warrior [LitRPG Dungeon Diving]
Lifeweaver: A Healer LitRPG
Beware Of Chicken
Puppy Girl Evolution - Rise of the Hell Hound
Fish Girl Evolution [Cultivation LitRPG]
Taste of Magic: General's Echo [Slice-of-Life LitRPG]
1% Lifesteal
Beneath the Dragoneye Moons
The Exchange Teacher - Welcome to Dyntril Academy
Bunny Girl Evolution (BOOK 2 COMPLETE!) (STUBBED!)
The Crow and The Rabbit
Foxfire, Esq. (not recommended, even if the writing is good)
The Class Of 9099
Advent of Sorcery - Fusion Spellcraft Progression

I read a shitton of LN, too.

>>24683901
Also, food for thought at a high /lit/ level: SHOULD progression fantasy even have character arcs? Arguably, the power progression covers that part of a story, and readers seem to prefer flat character arcs and more number go up than the other way around.

>>24683887
Who?

>>24683901
What kind of pacing issues, how passive was the protag, and by explicit do you mean unnecessary ambiguities?

Thanks for sharing your follow list, I like getting a sense for what people enjoy.

Also to answer your other post, I think they should but there's definitely an argument that most people won't care.

On that note I'd like to piggyback with a couple questions of my own:
Is there room for relatively short progression fantasies in the west? There is an abundance of Chinese webnovels that powerlevel hard from the start and end around 500 or so chapters. However it seems like most people want an experience lasting years.

Once you've made a progression fantasy, are you allowed to tone it down and release a work with a more mundane powerlevel later on or are you considered contaminated?

>>24683919
>What kind of pacing issues, how passive was the protag, and by explicit do you mean unnecessary ambiguities?
I wrote 95 straight chapters without dialogue because the MC was trapped in a dungeon alone. And I didn't realize maybe it was a problem until around halfway through, after a commenter pointed it out. Oops! The problem was with how I presented the themes of the story: things /happen/ to the protag at first, and then he kinda has a character arc and becomes more assertive while remaining relatively underpowered. By explicit I mean I could have just had the narrator exposit more about how the system works, but I wanted the dungeon arc to show how the main character is ingenuitive and creative in exploring the power system and what he can do: people wanted more explicit answers and to move past repeated trial and error faster to get to the catharsis of being powerful and flexing on everyone else.

>Is there room for relatively short progression fantasies in the west?
Of course. BTDEM is under 700 chapters. Vainqueer the Dragon was also relatively short. I think you're overthinking things. There's nothing at all wrong with shorter stories. You can always make another one, or write a sequel if you want to keep the same setting and characters. I don't think readers think about that that much.

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Here we go boys

got two ratings today! A 5.0 and a 4.5. My ranking went from 913 to 898. I'm going to make it.

>>24683934
Top thousand? Based anon, congrats. How many total ratings? I'm stuck at 27 ratings and mid 4000s.
I did get a new patreon subscriber last night tho so that was cool.

>>24683934
What novel?

>>24683944
Our resident /wng/ superstar of course.

>>24683950
Don't know haven't been here long.

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>>24683962
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/63818/the-crow-and-the-rabbit
Get caught up immediately and give him a good review.

>>24683939
102

>>24683970
Oh. I don't read FeMC stories.

>>24682955
If your story has conflict plot will happen naturally. If plot is hard it means you have no conflict.

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>>24683983

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>>24683900
>happens to all of us.

yeah, but it's not all bad! i just got my illustrations done for my last book (picrel)

>>24683848
You can avoid this issue if you write for clarity first. The most painful edits are from people who try to impress with long sentences crammed with conflicting clauses as if more detail makes better prose. People who write clear and simple are very easy to edit.

That's not to say that everyone should emulate Hemingway, and write boring bland prose, but it's a mistake to think you can pull out some Joycian shit in your first fucking draft and not lose anyone with your 400 letter long onomatopoeia for thunder.

>>24683934
I would say you already made it.
>>24684000
Awesome. Did you draw or commissioned?

>>24683656
LotM > RI

>>24683927
Well I'm impressed you could do that, I've always had trouble with writing about dungeons and wanted to work on them more!

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>>24684015

I commissioned my friend! it was a favor...

She made 8 of them, there's a whole gallery here:

jerdarious.org/betweentwovalleys

>>24684022
I'll tap my glabella but still say you're wrong. RI is too based with its anti-government themes for LotM which bootlicks so hard it got into the national library for it to come close.

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>>24684032
She's very talented, congrats on the art and the release!

>>24683950
>>24683970
there are a few others here more successful than me.

>>24684015
my highest point was 530 or so. I've been on a rather slow downward spiral, seems like every time I get one or two 5s someone comes along and drops it even lower. Staying in top 1k is a struggle.

>>24684061
Should I drop a 5? I'm up to date if that matters. Also is it better if it is a written review or is just dropping the rating enough?

>>24684067
Not him but I believe advanced reviews are weighted most heavily, and yes you should do a full advance review and give him a five. Why not? It's only 200 words, not that hard for a /wng/er.

Y'all... did write at least two hundred words today, right?
Right?

>>24684037
:]

>>24684067
A rating would be nice, you can drop a review if you want to, those are worth more. I dare not beg unless our local royal road moderators take effect.
Hopefully I'll get a new chapter out soon.

I'm at 6k ish rank, so I can't even relate.

>>24684153
I leap frogged 10k positions from a review kek
Life at low ranks is wild.
>t. 13k ish ranker

>>24684155
I only got 500 positions up from 7k after a 5 star advanced review. So it gets harder.

>>24684076
>Y'all... did write at least two hundred words today, right?
nyo...

>>24684076
I wrote and published a 2.5k word chapter between 3am and 7am this morning. That technically counts as today.

>>24684155
I hear you need 500 pages (137.5k words) to even be taken seriously by readers on RR.

>>24684188
...I have 45.

And yes, some people will only pick up only after a certain page count; some say 100, others 300, 600 and I once heard a thousand. What matters is having stuff written.
But I'm excited about my next project, I hope it hits 100 followers. Dunno how long it's gonna be though.

>>24684194
It's really going to bug people when my second volume is finished before my first. They all have different characters and its non-linear. They can be read in any order, but it will be weird to have an incomplete book leading into a complete book on the chapter list.
I'll have to rely on people clicking on volumes.

>>24684188
some readers do filter by 100, 500, 1000 page marks etc but what you just said is a massive exaggeration, most dont do this

>>24684188
One type probably is like me, I only start reading stories when they have hundreds of chapters since I'm a binge reader.

Forming a /wng/ cabal. Anyone who wants to join is free too. Just be an actual publishing author or forming a backlog and planning to publish.

https://discord.gg/TEpPQxGU

>>24684257
basically the only reason to use 4chan is for anonymity so why do so many people immediately try to form discords?
if you want to be in a cabal go join Immersive Ink which will actually give you some return on investment because I guarantee this one won't, no author here has any significant pull and you won't be able to get good shout outs. so you'll jerk each other off and not even benefit
>just want to be social
why bring discord into it then? that's what this thread is for
>discord is better
fag

>>24684265
People were complaining about cabals. May as well make our own, even if it goes tits up its better than nothing.

Yo, Zucchini anon, your story got mentioned in the forums.
https://www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/157077
Congrats!

>>24684270
idk man to me it seems like caving to shitty mindbroken behavior, but without the upside of actually benefiting you. this isn't so much "i doubt this works" as "it literally will not work fundamentally because there are no big authors here to collude with"
like do you even understand what makes cabals work? a bunch of 10-50 follower peons shouting each other out doesn't do anything. you're not even guaranteed a spot on RS when you're getting shoutouts from multiple 10k+ follower stories

>>24684265
>so why do so many people immediately try to form discords?
Tourists who see 4chan as a 'secondary' internet community. It's not their primary, where they really put effort in and care, so they treat it like it's disposable, a content farm, a place to shit up and be stupid in. R****t-tards are the same way.

>>24684270
>May as well make our own, even if it goes tits up its better than nothing
No. You have all of /lit/. Lurk for two years. 'Lurk' means don't post, just read for two years.

>>24684274
Might as well check their story, I recommend: https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/117925/the-yellow-typhoon-and-the-final-waltz

>>24684275
>like do you even understand what makes cabals work?
Yes, honestly. Its to network and coordinate with other authors. Do review swaps, read works and give advice, shout outs, etc.

That's really the utility of these cabals. Don't see why anons are seething considering there's been multiple generals with people complaining about cabals, and then just not... doing anything?

>>24684285
We don't need a whole server to do any of that.

>>24684285
i don't think you understand what actually upsets anons about cabals, dude
we complain about how they shout-out swap and collude to force their way onto RS and squeeze out the competition. that's the shitty behavior, and you trying to make a /wng/ cabal can't imitate it (and would be whoring ourselves out in the exact way we hate even if we somehow could)
you seriously think we give a shit that they socialize, read each others work, and talk about writing? Wtf. obviously not

>>24684274
I'm shocked. Thanks, whoever, did it!

I wonder how easy it would be to pay a russian bot farm to target FFF anon and flood him with followers and views, to subsequently have him banned for botting

>>24684285
People on 4chan are usually neither the sociable nor trustworthy kind; so if someone appears and says:
>We're making a cabal
Of course people are going to be skittish about it, the last time we tried a collaborative effort, it lasted 1 day before being dragged into drama. I'm sorry to say, but by doing this, you're basically trusting random people with your public name.
Don't get you and your friends banned.

why is the archmage clone performing so much worse than the real one? genre fatigue?

>>24684300
I've read the reviews and it simply doesn't seems to be good after a few chapters. Archmage is generic but well written, Min-max is just surfing on it's popularity.

>>24684304
>well-written
Be serious. Is there any actually well-written web novel?

>>24684342
I concede. Archmage reads as if written by someone who knows the English language

>>24684294
FFF anon spoiled the ending to his story. Guy can’t keep a secret to save his life.

>>24684347
Or maybe that's what he wants you to believe.
Keep reading. All will be revealed.

>>24684342
There isn't even any well written published genre fiction, so of course not

>>24684342
I thought Paranoid Mage was decent. Ascendance of a Bookworm's webnovel is actually quite technically well-written if you can read moonrunes, otherwise the LN adaptation is almost exactly the same content-wise.

>>24684355
This is the problem with people asking for "good." There's no reasonable definition of good. People INSTANTLY jump to "none of it is good, compared to some impossible standard met by my favorite classic text and nothing else."

What's the best-written web novel you've read?

>>24684304
I want to make it so I encourage people to stop writing meta.

>>24684364
Well-written meaning what? That's ambiguous. I'll assume you mean which has the best prose I've read
Katalepsis by Hungry

>>24684364
ORV if you are loose on your definition of novel.

>>24684366
not gonna happen. there's some really incredible writing on rr but since it's not on-meta it's like 3% as successful as much shittier work
even if you're a phenomenal author, it doesn't matter. success is about marketing and appeal, not quality. this isn't even me whining, people need to accept this so their expectations can be set properly and they don't crash out

>>24684364
Ascendance of a Bookworm on Narou
In English, hmm... It's tough. Probably FF- I'm joking. Of the long ones I've finished, either Azarinth Healer or Beware of Chicken.
Much of what I read is flawed, but it's new and it's on the cutting edge of literature. I don't really concern myself with only reading the best of anything; if I did, I would still be reading nothing but The Classics(tm).

>>24684373
Kim Dokja (Kim Highly Respected Only Son)—my father gave me that name to be a strong man by myself. However, thanks to the name my father gave me, I turned out to be just a normal single and lonely man.

In short, it was like this. I was Kim Dokja, 28 years old, and single. My hobby was reading web novels on the subway.

“Then I’ll go on my smartphone.”

In a noisy subway, I raised my head reflexively. A pair of curious eyes were staring straight at me. They belonged to an employee from the human resources team, Yoo Sangah.

“Ah, hello.”

“Are you going home from work?”

“Yes. What about Yoo Sangah-ssi?”

“I was lucky. The manager went on a business trip today.”

>>24684374
Name them and what's on meta

>>24684275
>rules for thee, not for me. :^)

>>24684385
why? what's the point in a pop quiz

>>24684392
I'm desperate for recs and advice

>>24684397
it's a lot of work to type up the royalroad meta, and it's been done a million times
for recs--what do you like reading?

>>24684397
>advice
Just write 1000 words per day, every single day, and post at least three chapters a week.

>>24684400
I guess it's all in the op?
For recs anything goes, I'm curious what you found that's doing so badly

>>24684403
it's not that it's doing badly, it's that comparing Katalepsis's performance to Primal Hunter proves that raw writing quality takes a distant third place to market appeal

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>>24684403
Not him but give these a look:
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/129546/dragon-girl-evolution-monster-evolutionprogression
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/130456/squid-girl-evolution-monster-girl-evolution-litrpg
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/129182/magpie-girl-evolution-the-magpie-and-the-archmage
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/129180/cat-girl-evolution
All very easy to get into.

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>>24684410
>X girl evo
I swear, it's like you like seeing me suffer. I learned today how to filter it from the front page.

>>24684374
Yeah, a low fantasy series with no litrpg, reincarnation, progression, or overpowered MC could never be number 4 in the top 10 ongoing fictions.

>>24684385
Did you just ask what "on-meta" writing is for RR?

>>24684424
nice snarky response anon but i didn't say good fictions couldn't get high score ratings lmfao. maybe that's how you define success but it's certainly not the default assumption when people are talking about it
EE is, in fact, exactly one such author I meant, who deserves far greater success than he currently has, because he's one of the best web serial authors on the entire internet. but since he doesn't write total slop, he has a fraction of the readers and income of stories like Primal Hunter, DCC, HWFWM, etc

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Why does the western harem community adore sluts?

>>24684435
For the first time the answer is actually feminism.
I like how 28% took the cop-out response of:
>I don't care as long as she doesn't talk about it
Is there a poll of inter-harem/polyamory?

>>24684424
>>24684433
also I haven't read Pale Lights yet, but EE's other work had VERY strong elements of "super cool MC syndrome" where Cat was always pulling insane shit and being glazed by the narrative super hard. Power fantasy (and it definitely was a power fantasy, if done well) is still on-meta, just not smack-on like litrpg is
Does Pale Lights really have none of that? I would be surprised

Speaking of the royalroad best rated list, there's some really shitty writing there. Has anyone tried "Ghost in the City"? I bounced so hard off the first chapter and it's in the top 10

>>24684449
I recently read the first volume of PGTE before it stubbed because I like Pale Lights and I honestly have a hard time believing they were written by the same person. The protagonists obviously have moments of doing protagonist things and the bit of exceptionalism associated with that, but it's hard won and only puts them on the same level as their equally exceptional peers.

>>24684443
>inter
Y-you meant to say intra right? Right?

>>24684476
I have terminal brainrot i guess because I really liked the escapism power fantasy aspects of APGTE and was looking forward to Pale Lights, and learning it doesn't have that is a disappointment. i want my protags to be super duper special

>>24684479
What, don't ya like sharing harens with your bros?
Yeah, my bad, english hard, ESL moment.

>>24684484
They're special, but everyone in the story is special because anyone who isn't gets brutally slaughtered. And so do lots of the special people. The lucky ones just get crippled, and for the really lucky ones it only lasts fifty some chapters.

>>24684270
bro we can't even handle a pastebin without imploding

>>24684485
No I'm not a cuck sorry!
But that's an example of my problem. There are people where that isn't a slip and they get angry being questioned... Even the 7% on that poll chose a response that treats being a virgin suspiciously.
I can only assume there's an addiction to being cucked. It is so profoundly blackpilling.

>>24684364
Worth the Candle, but only after I bounced off of it several times across multiple years before finally getting into it. It triggered my bad tropey wish fulfillment senses at the start.

>>24684525
I've enjoyed all of Alexander Wales's works (of the ones I've tried). TUTBAD the most, probably. WTC just gets too weird in places, to the point I'm actively put off. Thresholder was good but not peak

>>24684531
I read Thresholder up to 130, but my opinion oscillated a lot. The most enjoyable parts were the weird worlds, powers, and artifacts, sometimes the action. I guess I couldn't really get attached to the characters. I also would have preferred if there hadn't been any explanation for the setup and it was never made the focus of the story. Just getting to see the different worlds and how the main character changed over time.

I gave TUTBAD a shot, but maybe the feeling of low stakes kept me from feeling like any of it mattered. Or maybe I just can't stand system worlds because it feels fake.

>>24684539
>maybe the feeling of low stakes kept me from feeling like any of it mattered
never really been a problem for me. if the characters are fun to read about idc if there's real danger/consequences

i do agree that the characters in thresholder weren't great. that kinda holds for all of his stories, I didn't LOVE anyone in WTC either. alexander wales in general has REALLY interesting ideas, and that's what I read him for.

ironically I do think his character work in TUTBAD is pretty standout, I really really like Mizuki, Verity, and Alfric. but characters are the whole point of a cozy story, so that makes sense. i do wish I could see what Wales can do when he puts as much focus on character as in TUTBAD, but with the fascinating ideas he brings to stuff like thresholder and WTC (not that the unique ideas with dungeons and entads and such weren't fun in TUTBAD)

>>24684503
>>>24684270
>bro we can't even handle a pastebin without imploding
you know.
I notice this shit.
the writer's cabal? Oh, its marvelous. Its just how it is.
us making our own writer's cabal? What the fuck's the problem.

>>24684546
>the writer's cabal? Oh, its marvelous. Its just how it is.
literally everybody in this thread shits on the cabal, TINA. Nobody calls the cabal marvelous, TINA. Stop being a fucking retard, TINA.

>>24683875
Yes. I'm all about breaking bad habits. Can I keep a *couple* parenthetical questions in my prose.

>>24684549
>literally everybody in this thread shits on the cabal, TINA. Nobody calls the cabal marvelous, TINA. Stop being a fucking retard, TINA.
fucking funny. The cabal? Does something for itself.For its members. Honestly "tina" doesn't think I'm good enough to get in on it. But others here? Sure. Why not make a 4-chins cabal. Perfectly legal. Let the better anons kick some ass. I mean, why would *anyone* be against it.

>>24684549
I'll say it right now. Player to player, pimp to pimp. I know I'm ot good enough a writer to benefit from even being in the (prospective) cabal. But I tell you what. I participated in a writing contest here. The top entries? Wow. THEY could write what you want for a cabal to kick ass. Not? Tina. But... do it.

A /wng writing contest sounds way cooler than the cabal idea. idk why we aren't doing that

>>24684629
I'm busy writing my serial

>>24684629
>A /wng writing contest sounds way cooler than the cabal idea. idk why we aren't doing that
>
suggest something, nigger.
y'all ain't got no idea what the hive-mind might go for.

>>24683919
>There is an abundance of Chinese webnovels that powerlevel hard from the start and end around 500 or so chapters. However it seems like most people want an experience lasting years.
>
500 motherfucking chapters?
standard writing advice, trad pub, is don't you DARE go over 100k words, keep it at or under 80k words. You ain't an established Tolkein, you don't rate his privilege. See this kills me about the whole web novel thing. Encourage sprawl.

>>24683986
>If your story has conflict plot will happen naturally. If plot is hard it means you have no conflict.
this is truth-nuke here.

>>24684285
Anon, the cabal members are each supposed to already have a large following for organization to have any real effect. Otherwise it's just 4chan. Spamming your links here made nobody popular

>>24684664
Web novels aren't trad publishing, grandpa. You're looking for >>/wg/

>>24684664
Trad pub and web novels, especially Chinese web novels are vastly different ecosystems. The Chinese want to know what exactly what they're going to get from a story and in return as long as that story keeps making money, it will keep giving it to them. Go to any random Chinese web novel aggregator site and at least 30% of the most popular list will have over 6000 chapters, at 3.5k words per chapter on average. Good luck finding any below 1k chapters. They want that sprawl, they want that reliability and routine, they do not want to finish a book and then need to find a new one, that want the same book they've been reading for a decade to have another 25 pages every time they get back from their job at the sweatshop.

Western web novels emulating the Chinese system is why they will never become true literature.

>>24684664
What are you talking about, the whole point with webnovels is that there's hundreds or thousands of chapters to binge. You sound like the reddit dads complaining about long games.

Is Critical Roleplay actually written by the same person as Small-time Villainess? I dropped the latter in no small part because every character interaction started with "She studied the person", and it was utterly irritating after 150+ chapters. And reading the first chapter of CR, it has "She studied him" twice already, and I'm getting flashbacks.

>>24684788
Could be just a follower. This is what happens when your only criteria for good writing is "it has readers"

I have a great plan. I'm going to write a male MC that gets isekai'd and becomes a mage. A hot elf is gonna lust after him while they kill monsters.

This sounds like the most generic thing ever, but I can't find stories that do this. I want to read it, but I can't find them. There are stories that resemble this, but the MC ends up as a tank or it's a female MC or they don't fight monsters. Something always deviates. So. I'm gonna do it myself!

>>24684815
>I'm gonna do it myself
this is the essence of web fiction

>>24684815
Make her a dark elf with pink nipples.

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I like to write but I also like to draw, which website would work best for me? I don't like drawing comics because of how long it takes to progress the story. instead I prefer writing while adding some illustrations to supplement the story. I used to use a site called fiction.live but I would like to try my luck on a bigger platform.

How friendly is Royal Road to something like that? does it support images / gifs or is it purely text? Is this something people do?

>>24684815
>I can't find stories that do this.
Dig deeper

>>24684407
Katalepsis is a bad example for your point.

>>24684433
EE has no business sense. The Yonder fiasco and the story retcons to PGTE are frankly horrific.

>>24684824
I've seen it done, but rarely. RR does support images, but I haven't seen an author mix and match text and images in the actual story. Either they do art dumps where the chapter is all images, or they put all the images into an authors note with citations in chapter.

>>24684824
Injecting images in the middle of text is just annoying online. It doesn't work like in print books. And unless you're a genuinely good artist, illustrations will only repel readers

>>24684664
What's funnier than your tone deaf comment is how you don't know that was specifically talking about reducing sprawl.

>>24684712
If only they did more, the whole culture of "stubbing" on royalroad is horrific.

>>24684898
What's wrong with stubbing?
I'm in this to make cold hard cash, retard

I didn't exactly keep track of all these X Girl Evolution stories and now it feels like every time I turn my back another one pops up like mushrooms.

>>24684914
I still can't wrap my head around the concept that people will suddenly want to pay for content that was previously free and then arbitrarily taken from them out of pure greed, instead of burning the author at the stake. It's just so unnatural.

>>24684975
>arbitrarily
>pure greed
human endeavour being compensated is natural. stop being so entitled

>>24684975
This
Back in my day, people getting sponsors were called out for selling out

>>24684997
>already make thousands of bucks every month
>no, I must be compensated more
It's pure, gluttonous, insatiable greed, and evil, and those who do it will burn in hell for it

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Hey hey, cool cats. There are many ways to — *adjusts glasses* — run your book like the business that it is.

Me? I'd much rather keep my work free while thinking of ways to maximally milk patrons and the wider readership via perceived goodwill. The extraction of resources and leveraging of readers should be more covert — customers should feel overjoyed to be parting with their money to be part of something larger than themselves! Think social proof, bandwagon effects, FOMO, and brand loyalty! Stubbing in pursuit of immediate gains with KDP will only cause upset.

Tune in next time for more tips that will turn you from a cool cat to a fat cat!

>>24685007
>>already make thousands of bucks every month
Most very much don't.

>>24685026
does this strategy include stuff like merch and kickstarter campaigns for limited runs of physical volumes etc
I think that works better for leveraging success and making extra money while seeming like you haven't sold out
purely relying on patreon isn't sustainable
and ebooks probably need to be paid or on audible for them to active viable

Why does the retard who always fucks up his quotes Constantly camp out here with his awful takes?

>>24685031
It's usually the big dudes who stub though. If you make pennies, stubbing only makes you even harder to find.

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Look at me go.

>get home from a walk last night
>get a sudden silly idea for a horror scenario
>write it in an hour
>people flock to it

Funny how the ones you put less effort into can sometimes get all the views.

>>24685094
go back

>>24684833
There's nothing to dig for. Stories like that don't exist.

>>24684975
Well, you can't put the story on Kindle unlimited without removing it from everywhere else. It will also only affect new readers.

I'm becoming so much like GU YUE FANG YUAN it's actually insane

>>24684823
Do NOT do this brown girls look awful with pink nipples.

>>24684664
The whole point of webnovels is that you can make story that won't work in trad publishing. If I wanted to read a story that is 100k words I would go to a bookstore. I want CHAPTERS that are 100k words, do you get me?

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All this talk of marketing has me thinking about my cover, as premature as that is considering the state of my backlog. I'm thinking something that homages I, the Jury.

who's writing web fiction and who's writing a failed tradpub novel that you're uploading to the internet?
I'm the latter btw

>>24685354
Your novel isn't failed tradpub. It's tradpub that has failed the novel.

>>24685354
The joke's on you, I format my web novel in trad novel-sized arcs that also form a continuous serial when read back to back and can theoretically go on infinitely, or end whenever.

>>24685354
To be honest I have no idea where my space opera belongs. There's no appetite for lotgh stories in either domain. Its kind of demoralizing.

>>24685437
I'm not trying to tamper with your vision but a few tweaks to the lotgh blueprint could probably make it very web novel friendly

>>24684839
no it's not

>>24683901
holy shit, you have sewer tier taste

>>24685437
Flash Gordon space opera probably is the stronger direction (for obvious reasons) than "big complex political ruminations" LoGH / Star Trek space opera. Not to discourage you.

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Some time ago I started a project that I meant to be something that would get finished real quick, like in a matter of weeks or months. I checked, and realized I hadn't posted a chapter since January, and I actually started the thing in like April 2024. Dang. Still, nearing the end, and just published another 10K words. Just need an intermission, the climax, and an epilogue now. Three more chapters.

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>>24684815
>I'm going to write a male MC that gets isekai'd and becomes a mage. A hot elf is gonna lust after him while they kill monsters.
Failure Frame (LN). Biggy tiddy elf right at the cover.
>So. I'm gonna do it myself!
Also gigabased.

>>24685354
No, that sounds pointless and humiliating.
I've always wanted to write a serialized magazine type story but those were already pretty much dead by the time I learned how to write so I had to wait for webnovels to be invented.

>>24685521
>Failure Frame
This fucking sucks by the way
Painfully disappointing experience

>>24685524
Same. Do you make any concessions to the meta? I try to treat it how one of those pulp writers would have taken demands from the editor.

>>24684914
You'd make more over time keeping it all up and having a patreon open. Instead you instantly cripple your potential audience for extremely short term gains.

>>24685621
>You'd make more over time keeping it all up and having a patreon open.
absolutely not true in the slightest.

>>24685354
My little brother is the latter, unfortunately. He was really heartbroken about it. But after I started writing it lit a fire under him again and he's finishing his trilogy. The brat wrote 30k words in like a week after he heard I put my first volume on amazon

I'm the former.

>>24685621
Nah it seems to be optimal to build a following and then throw the book up on KU. KU apparently is BIG money. I think the KU TOS allows authors to keep their work up on patreon as long as it's paywalled, you just can't have it up for free anywhere. So the play is RR to build an audience, Patreon to monetize, keep that going until you have the audience locked in, then move to KU to farm more heavily. Enough people have KU to keep up some discoverability, and get amazon reviews which RR doesn't really translate into well. Patreon lets people who don't have KU still access the content for a month to get caught up.

As disgusting non-paying reader myself I'm unfortunately familiar with all the paywalls.

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>>24685462
That's, like, your opinion man. I also have the balls to post anonymously what I like and not worry about little bitches calling my taste bad.

I care not for the opinions of cowards who won't put their own follows up for everyone to see.

>>24685034
NTA but I'd say that's fine. From a perspective of maximizing mindshare you need to do whatever you, a total nobody, can to spread awareness of your brand. Merch can be a very lucrative way of building awareness for people that never heard of your series before, and depending on what type it can also help focus your existing audience.
However when it comes to kickstarter I'm going to warn you those things are most often a money pit after costs are considered and fraught with disaster. You could still do it because of the aforementioned benefit of increasing mindshare which indirectly helps, but you're not making much extra money off of it in and of itself.

>>24684898
>If only they did more, the whole culture of "stubbing" on royalroad is horrific.
Why? You're getting your book out to way more readers. That's the whole goal, isn't it?
>>24684975
>I still can't wrap my head around the concept that people will suddenly want to pay for content that was previously free and then arbitrarily taken from them out of pure greed, instead of burning the author at the stake. It's just so unnatural.
Generally the story gets professionally edited (quality of that edit notwithstanding...) so it isn't zero value added--you are paying for something.
Also, it's two different audiences. The KU and RR audiences are not nearly as cross pollinated as you think

>>24685626
Absolutely true, however.

>>24685642
The key word here is seems. Yes, at a glance it SEEMS like the right play. But in exchange you're destroying something you can't see, the future audience tuning in who'd support if it were more freely available. For instance, I don't look twice at stubbed series. I don't have a KU subscription. None of that means anything to me.

>>24685651
So you admit that you're destroying your existing audience to try pandering to a different audience which also irrevocably ruins the trust others placed in you so you'll never be able to build a following again. How is that getting your book out to more readers when you literally reduce your audience...?

>>24685648
Post your work.

>>24685669
are you a paying customer?

>>24685669
>Absolutely true, however.
you're just a contrarian fag who doesn't have a single clue what he's talking about. explain why you know better than all the authors making millions

>>24685675
>So you admit that you're destroying your existing audience to try pandering to a different audience which also irrevocably ruins the trust others placed in you so you'll never be able to build a following again. How is that getting your book out to more readers when you literally reduce your audience...?
what the fuck are you talking about? your patreon audience doesn't decrease when you stub--it usually keeps going up, in fact. people read on amazon, catch up, then join the patreon and start reading there. very common pipeline.
>but I personally don't like it
you aren't most people you dumb fuck. you're a very, very rare sort of autist that isn't worth pandering to

I dislike romance books which means writing romance books is career poison and not profitable--nobody likes romance (because I don't)
this is how retarded you sound

Why melty

Honestly, any advice, strategy breakdown/analysis etc etc etc shared here directly from the mind of anon might as well be totally worthless
It's all untested theorycrafting

The Primal Hunter guy once had a melty in which he revealed he gets paid more from KU than he gets from Patreon. I think he got 6 figures from KU and 5 figures from Patreon in the same time period or some shit?

>>24685680
If I'm not going to be betrayed by the author hurting new fans like me I'll pay up, I've done it before. There is an audience outside of KU you do not see.

>>24685684
>>24685691
>>24685697
You're a spineless bitch having an obvious meltdown but that's not my problem to solve. Try taking a deep breath beforehand and I'll take you more seriously.

>your patreon audience doesn't decrease when you stub
You're forgetting the patreon audience that could have been there that will no longer show up. Again, seen vs unseen. Are you not familiar with the parable of the broken window?

>you aren't most people
This one's a whopper. Most people would rather read something for free then decide on supporting it rather than pay a subscription fee. There is a much different audience with/without kindle and that's a good thing.

>>24685699
I pointed out his terrible business sense and he threw a fit. Maybe he's getting second thoughts?

>>24685699
i woke up on the wrong side of the bed i guess. you're right
but the sheer retardation got to me. how do you dumb fucks speak so confidently about shit you know nothing about?

>>24685713
Zogarth has a melty every other week, he's a Type A personality neurotic

>>24685713
>A melty over being paid 5 figures and 6 figures
Why, what, how?
I'd be over the moon if I ever got paid a grand per month.
>>24685721
Well that may explain it.

>>24685706
>>24685713
>>24685720
Keep it all in one post you big baby.
>how do you dumb fucks speak so confidently about shit you know nothing about
Are you speaking to your multiple personalities here?

>>24685719
you aren't worth responding to seriously. you're only worth deriding
you keep throwing out retarded as fuck statements that have so many obvious issues with them
>You're forgetting the patreon audience that could have been there that will no longer show up.
not remotely comparable to the massive audience you get from KU
>Most people would rather read something for free then decide on supporting it rather than pay a subscription fee.
doesn't matter when KU readers dont use RR and thus won't ever find your story if it remains free

>I pointed out his terrible business sense
you dumb fuck, you are the one with no business sense. the ones with actual business sense making millions with their writing decided that stubbing is worth it, and you come in and say "actually no, and heres some vague ass, obviously incorrect nonsense why"

I do need to take a deep breath though clearly im not in the mood for this thread today. time to close the tab. sorry for the meltie

>>24685727
only >>24685720 was me of those 3 btw, apparently you are the same-schizo anon

>>24685648
you sound bothered

>>24684433
He's making 7k a month with one chapter a week, I can't see that as anything but success.

who/what is TINA?

How alien or amoral is too much for the average western web slopper until they complain?

>>24685721
True.

>>24685726
>Why, what, how?
Why/how he makes that kinda bank? First mover advantage. Or one of the first, at least. He was one of the first to catch it big and apparently he's kept an audience ever since just by not stopping. Heck, I just checked his patreons and Zogarth gets €63.350/$76.240 per month. No clue what his KU earnings are, though.

Such is the life of Patreon top earners. The rest of us are huddling in the long, long tail of those immense sums. Goes the same way for things like porn games like Summertime Saga ($90k~239k according to graphtreon) or podcasts or whatever.

>>24685735
Passive aggressive lower caps is a bad look on you. Clean yourself up before you show yourself again.

>not remotely comparable
Is it? What you theoretically gain from KU you lose in creative expression. You are completely throttled to appeal exclusively to retards from r*ddit who have a tranny pride flag up as the official icon of the progression fantasy sub. You cannot write something that offends Jeff Bezos' sensibilities. Frankly I'm not sure that makes sense.
>KU readers don't use RR
So we're in agreement that it destroys your existing audience and cripples the ability for new people from that audience to discover and appreciate your work.
>the ones with actual business sense making millions on their writing
Have you taken a look at smaller authors much more comparable to you to see how well that strategy works out?

>>24685738
My advice stands, schizo-kun. So much for closing the tab, you broke your word immediately.

>>24685753
Regular that writes in a stream of consciousness way, likes hard boiled pulp stories and has abysmal readership. Filters every anon here and is a /pol/fag. Tina is their username.
>>24685764
No, I meant, why he had a melty—I really don't see the point of complaining when he's making six figures by writing web novels. But if he's a menhera then it's explained.

>>24685756
racism, sexism, xenophobia, transphobia, islamophobia, ableism, neurophobia, queerphobia, nationalism, zionism, classism, fatphobia, biphobia, transmisogyny, sectarianism, linguicism

>>24685768
To look at it from a different angle, he's only able to make six figures writing webnovels by being a malehera.

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>>24685778
>he's only able to make six figures writing webnovels by being a malehera.
Many anons itt are gonna make it then, me included.

>>24685766
>You are completely throttled to appeal exclusively to retards from r*ddit who have a tranny pride flag up as the official icon of the progression fantasy sub.
RR is identical tho?

>>24685783
We have no such luck, my mentally unwell friend. There's a degree of soullessness he inflicted on himself that can never be recovered in exchange for the succor of short term success.

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>>24685804
Fool did a deal with the devil then, but anons itt cultivate inner strenght by following the precepts. Namu Amida Butsu.

>>24683787
>Started reading Cradle it almost seems like written by a high-schooler. Is this what people really like?
Progression fantasy is ultimately a juvenile appeal to power fantasy and monster-of-the-week fight scenes, it's the text equivalent to shows like dragon ball aimed at young teenage boys (or to video games). So yes this is what you can expect of the genre.
For litrpg all the same applies but even moreso.

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>>24684854
interesting, thank ye

>>24684880
> illustrations will only repel readers
that has always been my fear, that injecting my drawings would make my work feel more "juvenile'. But through my experiences the opposite has been true and I have usually enjoyed more popularity then I deserve. So I will give it a go.

>>24685793
Almost identical. You're not wrong for the most part but you have a small degree of freedom simply from being unbound from having Bezos as your patron, and having something is better than nothing. The best move imho is to avoid RR entirely but that's a much different discussion.

>>24685812
Is that why I keep feeling like my story should juke the more explicit progression elements because I focus on other things besides it?

>>24685793
No. RR audience is remarkably not pozzed, at least a large portion of it isn't. Fagshit still gets consistently negative reception if you try to put it front and center. Lesbians go over well.

>>24684257
Last time I joined a discord server from a 4chan thread the person who started it turned out to be a schizo, harvested all the anons' account names and started spamming them in /trash/ diaper erp threads asking the diaperfags to add them/me

>>24685808
Sadly we have some loudly advocating we abandon those principles. They are fools at best and disciples of Mammon at worst. Pity them not, for there are others more deserving of sorrow.

>>24685825
Here I thought I had it bad when I got banned for actually writing.

>>24685815
RR has stricter rules than Amazon though. You can't even write sex scenes on RR. It's literally owned by Israel

>>24685831
You can though. You just can't have the sex scenes make up more than 15% of the book by word or chapter count.

I've read explicitly smut fantasy novels that didn't hit this limit,

>>24685822
If you try to write "fagshit" progression fantasy, the KU audience won't read it either lol. That's not a unique RR quality

>>24684815
>A hot elf is gonna lust after him while they kill monsters.
I dont wanna read 1000 chapters of shonen style will-they-won't-they eternal flirtslop with no satisfying romance progression but that is pretty much what I expect when I hear a web novel premise like this.
And if you want more stories like that, learn japanese

>>24685841
Exactly. The genre is fundamentally targeted at young-adult men, even the wokest authors within it are beholden to that reality.

>>24684975
It's a different audience though. The people who were actually following the webnovel have long ago finished the stubbed section, whereas the amazon cattle buying kindle epubs or maybe just paying KU subs probably aren't even aware royalroad exists.
Of course the authors would rather put the book for sale on amazon while leaving the chapters on RR but they can't because porky at amazon makes them sign exclusivity contracts if they wanna make KUbucks.

>>24685839
>You can though. You just can't have the sex scenes make up more than 15% of the book by word or chapter count.
Nah this is the old rules. You legit can't write smutty stuff anymore, there are just some stories grandfathered in that won't be deleted because they're popular. If you try to write a story that 1 out of 7 chapters are smut, you will have the story pulled
they explicitly say
>you must keep the Sexual Content to a minimum.
in the rules now

>>24685849
How come Young Master Xian Sure Has Changed starts with the protagonist getting a detailed beej, then?

>>24685831
>You can't even write sex scenes
No, you can. Might not be sex scenes you like but you can.
>It's literally owned by Israel
Why do you think I suggested avoiding it? Come on anon, I said that was a different discussion and wanted to save it for another occasion.

>>24685846
What do you mean "Exactly"? I'm saying RR/KU is no different in that regard, when you presented it as a "Benefit" to using RR over KU

>>24685842
>Dude you must only consoom
You and everyone like you are a cancer on the western writing community.

>>24685851
>Why do you think I suggested avoiding it? Come on anon, I said that was a different discussion and wanted to save it for another occasion.
So your advice is to avoid both RR and amazon??? What the fuck is left? Am I being trolled by the retarded /wg/ tourist right now?

>>24685853
This is clearly a different person agreein with you you dumb nigger

>>24685857
what

>>24685859
Why did someone respond to say "OMG THIS!!"?

>>24685858
A lot more than you think.

This thread really is a shitshow this morning.

>>24685867
>Am I being trolled by the retarded /wg/ tourist right now?
Glad we cleared that up, at least.

>>24685864
To show support of a concept they agree with during an argument? Is this idea really so alien to you?

>>24685872
Literally who do you mistake me for?

>>24685354
nice

I think I'll wait for the next one

>>24685862
You clearly don't want anon to write stuff for native English speakers.

>>24685872
Probably just gongfarmer missing xer estrogen shots so xe felt the need to whine about selfpub again

>>24685819
I mean yes, less focus on explicit progression elements leaves you more able to tell stories about characters or whatnot. Of course those explicit elements are part of what attracts the average RR reader so you have to consider the balance of art vs meta

>>24685354
Does it count as failed if you never try?

>>24685879
>anon: I want to read X
>me: to read X try Y
>you: kill yourself, you should never answer a potential author's reading request
interesting

Is it progfan if characters get stronger over time but getting stronger isn't their main goal? Or do RR readers only want autistic grinder characters?

>>24685886
Anon wants to write X, not try Y. Dismissive him and telling him to learn Japanese reads as discouragement.

>>24685890
Acting dismissive*

>>24685887
you can use the tag and no one would complain

>>24685887
>Is it progfan if characters get stronger over time but getting stronger isn't their main goal?
there is plenty of even explicit number go up litrpg slop like this where the characters are just forced to fight by one crisis after another or what-have-you. ultimately it depends on how the power progression is framed and structured more than on the characters' motivation for it