Daenerys Targaryen sucks.

Walk with me, my sweet summer child, and hear the tale of fat pink masts jutting into sopping wet myrish swamps and black nipples brushing against silk until her cunt became the world while in the privy the princess guzzled arbor gold and shat but the more she drank the more she shat until she was shitting brown water and around her the planks of the ship groaned like a fat man taking a shit while she cursed the gods and nuncle smiled as he broke his fast on black bread, bacon burned black, and mulled wine while capon-grease dribbled down his chin and onto the boiled leather of his jerkin for she was wet with love and did she not know words are wind and dark wings bring dark words and a lannister always pays her debts and mayhaps this is nothing but a mummers farce and useless as nipples on a breastplate and the princess has been fucking lancel and moonboy for all nuncle knows and he is the blood of the dragon for the night is dark and full of terrors but where do whores go and jon snow knows nothing and near enough makes no matter so nuncle smiled and dipped the heel of his bread into clam chowder and prayed for half a hundred more heh har HODOR

>>24704184
>Fatass (Aegon IV)
>Virgin Son (Deron II)
>Chad Son (Maekar)
>Femboy Son (Aegon V)
>Weakling Son (Jaehaerys II)
>Crazy Son (Aerys II)
>Sissy Son (Rhaegar)

Why is Maekar the exception?

I like Catelyn's chapters but I do not like Catelyn.

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>>24704184
The charges, officer?

>>24704514
Bein' a pufta mate. Gunna go down for life you is.

I am re reading the books and... is George just a bad writer?

>>24704599
When did you realize it?

For me it was the Vargo Hoat bullshit in ASoS. He clearly wanted something interesting to happen with Jaime, but he didn't know how to get there organically. The forced Bolton explanation makes it really obvious.

>>24704616
Embarrassingly it was on my second read though. The Danny stuff is just sloppy as fuck and he adds a ton of shit pointlessly. I can also see how heavy handed he is sometimes with his rather basic bitch opinions. He gives up having any real message behind the story half way though the first book and pretty much just plays things straight or directly references some historical event.
What is the fucking point of Danny anyway?

>>24704641
I'll do you one better. What is the point of the Others?

All the story investment is in the grounded politics and emotional arcs of the characters. A giant Ice Apocalypse means an abrupt end to all of them.

If the long night doesn't happen, then it feels like a wasted setup. If it does happen, it has to be put down in an anticlimatic way. Or it is appropriately weighty and all the character work goes to waste.

Will Jaime redeems himself? Ice Apocalypse

Will Cersei burn down Kings Landing? Ice Apocalpyse

Will Jon claim Winterfell? Ice Apocalypse

Will Arya finish her-- Ice Apocalypse

Everyone hates the show, but it probably is going to follow most of the same beats. Bad long night and all.

>>24704732
I always thought the petty political machinations, lies, broken oaths, etc. were meant to be ultimately meaningless come winter. The most famous quote is centered around winter and Jon has the second most POV chapters in the series. Combined with Bran, Sam, and the prologues, a great deal of the story is focused on the others/winter right from the very first page of the series.
Unfortunately, the books are unlikely to ever be finished and the show was shit on every level, so it doesn't really matter either way. The series obviously did not go the way Gurm originally planned it to, and that's why the story hasn't progressed in 25 years.

>>24704641
Dany is a relic from the original draft

>>24704823
That’s the plan but… it’s just never going to actually work out that way on the page.
Yes, for the characters in the story all the political bullshit is meaningless in the face of giant ice apocalypse. But for the reader that stuff is the only reason they give a fuck about the story, and the giant ice apocalypse cuts it all short and deprives it of a satisfying resolution, or alternatively the giant ice apocalypse turns out to be the most overhyped nothingburger in history so everyone can just get back to it - as happened in the show.
The heros fighting the evil faceless army of ice demons was always just fated to be chloroform on print.

>>24704823
>meant to be ultimately meaningless come winter
Thats the issue, we'll be spending 6 books on characters who will have been doing meaningless things. Maybe if the apocalypse causes a great reevaluation it could be satisfying. Perhaps "A Dream of Spring" is that hint of everything going wrong.

Gurm if he wrote the battle of pelennor fields be like
>they shat as they slew

>>24704184
>get interested in ASOIAF mysteries again
>remember that it’s all un resolvable, unplanned, no-answer mystery boxes on the level of LOST
>remember there will never be another book since he’ll die soon
UGGHHHGHG

>>24704732
The only thematically coherent way to end the series is the others killing everyone.
Surface level it’s climate change. Full depth it’s the heat death of the universe

>>24704910
The point is to not have a satisfying resolution. Realism over romanticism

>>24705024
There’s already a story where plot threads go nowhere, character arcs stop abruptly with no real point, and there’s foreshadowing all over the place that never amounts to anything. It’s called real life.
If I wanted realism I wouldn’t be reading fiction. Literary realism is a disease

Just finished the third book

>>24705036
>"Literary realism is a disease"
>goes to read and obsess over works of a writer who is known to do exclusively literary realism in his themes and plots
What did anon mean by this?

Reminder that the Nights Watch is Lightbringer

> I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn

Dragons being Lightbringer is gay, Lightbringer just being a sword is gay.

>>24705176
When was the NW tempered in water, driven through a lion's heart, impaled nissa nissa etc?

>>24705193
>When was the NW tempered in water
Hardhome
>driven through a lion's heart
They'll end Lannisters
>impaled nissa nissa

Holy shit it all fits together

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any good books in asoiaf style? I was thinking maybe First Law by Abercrombie but idk. I need to fill the void.

>>24705193
>interpreting a prophecy literally
The oath uses a sword as the metaphor for the Night's Watch, Lightbringer is supposed to radiate heat “I am the fire that burns against the cold”, Nissa Nissa “sacrifice” could tie into why the Watch doesn’t take wives.

>>24704223
>Daenerys Targaryen sucks
Daario's cock with its dyed pubes

>>24705165
The weird idea of trying to depict magic “realistically” is called magical realism. Laurus is actually a good exam of it if you want a book set in he Middle Ages. The idea that ASOIAF depicts dragons and magic or even medieval politics (absolutely no dynasty lasted as long as some in the book purport) “realistically” is a joke, because normies think brutal is enough to make something realistic, just like Mad Men is to normies a realistic depiction of the 1960’s and Rome is a realistic depiction of life in ancient Rome

>>24705207
Even if you go with metaphorical interpretations the watch doesn't fulfill the water/lion parts of the prophecy.

>>24705718
If the shows ending is canon (likely given it was based off the notes of Gurm), then prophecies mean less than a fart in the wind. Arya could have pulled a tacticool 360 knife noscope on the bad guy at literally any moment and all his bad guy henchmen would vanish

>>24705796
This is just bait at this point. Show and book are universes apart.

>>24705821
Season 8 of GoT is the only basis on which we can judge the ending of the series. You can cope all you want.

>>24705821
Save for the fact that they made the last two seasons based on the outline the fat man gave them. His plan for the story as of writing dance in 2011 is roughly what we saw in Season 7 and 8

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>>24705796
>prophecies mean less than a fart in the wind
Not quite.

>>24705821
Wrong, but also to add on to this.

When GSteph went to Cushing, he also found dropped plots from the book. One of which was the Jon fighting the mutinees at Craster's. That plot found its way into the show which suggests 1 or 2 things.

1. George was feeding more info to D&D than he has let on.

2. D&D have had access to the draft notes for awhile.

The show is retarded, but GRRM's involvement has been understated if not outright lied about.

>>24704863
Go on

>>24706072
Not the anon, but I can try to elaborate.

In the original draft Dany was meant to kill Drogo and then escape to the wilderness so that she could raise her Dragons and invade Westeros.

However, when you consider the proportion of chapter space spent in Westeros versus Essos it becomes harder to integrate her into the story. Similar to the issue with the Others invasion, Dragons presenting their own apocalypse leaves the vast majority of character arcs and stories in a lurch.

Granted, Dany has the capacity to be much more political but Dragons are a bad influence. Especially when you're basically a foreign power, Tyroshi accent and all.

So whats a writer to do?
You just park her ass and nerf her. Thats why not much happened for her in ASoS or ACoK, it'd be too disruptive.

>>24706116
Cont.

Dany is also arguably not important to really anyone's story on the continent. But to be clear, I mean this in a emotional sense. Lets take Jaime for example.

Jaime's arc is about gaining honor. What would Dany's character add to this? She could do political things, such as pushing Cersei over the edge into becoming a mad queen that Jaime has to kill.

But, Margaery Tyrell already fits that role. Cersei is set up to go full mad queen without Dany. So what use is Dany there?

Or how about Jon?

When he gets resurrected, is he going to be honorable Jon or Lord Stark?

If we get honorable Jon, and he stays with the watch then he'd have to interact with Dany at the wall. But Dany only really would be at the wall after she invades successfully or she pulls a Stannis to assist there first. Regardless Jon would be doing the same thing no matter what Dany does, she'd be an addendum at best for his story.

If we get Lord Stark, he tries to take over the North with his Wilding army. This will cause a showdown between an Invading Southern Dany and a King of The North. If Dany never made it back to Westeros, Lord Stark instead will have to contend with the South of Westeros. The enemy for Jon remains the same.

Why, O creator of worlds, must you rest your pen?
The song that once burned bright within your heart
Now flickers and fades,
The candle is drowned in its wax
Did the years weary you?
Was the weight of your kingdom too great to bear?
That the children of men should suffer so?
Did the light of gold and silver
Dull the fire that forged dragons and ruin?
We wander still in your half-finished maze, O cruel master of tales!
Leering among the inky shadows of prophecies
Hearts aching for the answers
That lie dormant in your silence
Multitudes of voices in lamentations
Saying “I cry out to you, creator, but you do not answer; I stand up, but you merely look at me. You turn on me ruthlessly; with the might of your hand you attack me. You snatch me up and drive me before the wind; you toss me about in the storm”
And greater still the grief of those born from thine own mind
Have you not heard them?
The cries of children you bore from ink and dust?
They stumble without rest in the darkness
Seeking fates
Souls half made and grotesque
Insomniac spirits stumbling blindly
Eternally
Is this the grave you have dug for them
A grave of debts and promises unfulfilled
Tell us, George
Was greatness not good enough
To stay the hungering sloth that devours and rots

The real question is when the jon/arya romance would have been addressed.

>>24706285
In the outline Jon was still in the NW, but it would've had to be after the sack of winterfell when Catelyn flees to Castle Black with Bran and Arya.

>>24705207
you know what, maybe if the watch did take wives, they wouldn't be so understaffed

I remember a copy pasta on why the series will never be finished, GRRM being only capable of writing his characters into misery holes with no possible positive outcome. It ended with a comparison to the last published scene of a Robyn, a retarted kid, kicking down a beautiful snow castle.

Does anyone have it?

>>24706285
Its being addressed right now, Jon wanted to save Arya. Its just turned into brotherly/sisterly love, but not in a Targ way.

Although, I wonder if enough time passes and he learns about his heritage if that will change. They do think about each other alot.

If the Targs were at Dragonstone for generations with dragons after the fall of Valyria, why was Aegon the first one to consider conquest?

>>24706398
>Its just turned into brotherly/sisterly love, but not in a Targ way.
heh

>>24706454
To quote MLK:
"I have a dream"

Do you guys think blood and fire is gonna ditch the whole unreliable maester thing after what happened with ryon and sara mess and hotd

>>24706640
Not likely, that's how he likes to write his in-world stuff, like World of Ice and Fire.
And their most egregious changes wouldn't come from alternate readings of F&B, they're more like fanfiction and bad showrunning.

>>24706640
No, a major motif is that characters have unreliable narration.

Narration, narration.
It rhymes with lactation.

Who is, genuinely, the funniest character, or group of characters?

>>24706759
Stannis

>>24706759
Stannis, Victarion, Dolorous Edd

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>Dolorous Edd was feeding the horses. "Give the wildling an axe, why not?" He pointed out Mormont's weapon, a short-hafted battle-axe with gold scrollwork inlaid on the black steel blade. "He'll give it back, I vow. Buried in the Old Bear's skull, like as not. Why not give him all our axes, and our swords as well? I mislike the way they clank and rattle as we ride. We'd travel faster without them, straight to hell's door. Does it rain in hell, I wonder? Perhaps Craster would like a nice hat instead."

>>24706759
easily Dolorous Edd
>"Dywen now, he says we need to learn to ride dead horses, like the Others do. He claims it would save on feed. How much could a dead horse eat?" Edd laced himself back up. "Can't say I fancy the notion. Once they figure a way to work a dead horse, we'll be next. Likely I'll be the first too. 'Edd,' they'll say, 'dying's no excuse for lying down no more, so get on up and take this spear, you've got the watch tonight.' Well, I shouldn't be so gloomy. Might be I'll die before they work it out."

>>24707031
>Dolorous Edd
My man. Was gonna go exactly with him. Tyrion's got wit but Edd is one of my favorite characters in general. He'll survive the long night to slip on a pile of dung and hit his head on an axe.

Axe, axe.
It rhymes with tax.

Saw some funny asoiaf tweets not too long ago.
Over time I started seeing more of them, and now I get an overwhelming amount of tweets from the weirdest fanboys.
I don't think they like the books.
Just a specific character from the book and then act like k-pop stans for that character, it's so incredibly insufferable.
Actually it's somehow worse, it's like a mix of k-pop stans and political fanatics.

I hope grrm never finishes the books and is gleeful about not finishing them.
Fuck those retards.

My fault for having twitter.
end of blog

>>24707276
I know which you speak of.
A bunch of them literally only read the chapters of the character they like. They skip every single other character.

>>24707276
>>24707285
for me, it's women who don't care about the actual story but obsess over Rhaegar and justify everything he did because the idea of a prophesized prince kidnapping them, raping them, and then making them a magic baby factory turns them on

>>24707295
For me it’s women in general

When will the american tolkien finish his magnum opus ?

>>24707015
>mislike
isn't this literally wrong?

>>24707445
Do you expect illiterate medieval plebs to have immaculate grammar and pronunciation?

>>24704732
>What is the point of the Others?
The Others are important to the actual overarching plot of asoiaf, which is an apocalyptic, prophesied final war between life and death.

We're never reaching that point because grrm focused on irrelevant bullshit, burnt out and went to go write elden ring.

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>>24705916
Emphasis on the words "ROUGHLY". They are still two different things. I never even mentioned the difference in execution.
>>24705981
No, I was right. They are objectively and unquestionably different universes. Entire characters from the books were left out, merged or horribly butchered throughout the shows run. For fuck sakes, Faegon isn't even a thing in the show.
You or the other guy I'm replying too must concede that, for example, Euron acts exactly as he did in the show as he does in the books. I'm waiting for the famed "finger da bum!" line from his book version. I wonder how Martin will handle that. Look, I'm mad at the fat man as much as the next guy, but you don't need to discredit everything he writes.

>>24708416
The show couldn't adapt all of gurms mystery box bullshit due to time constraints. Characters like aegon were left out and euron's personality was changed because they're not actually important to the overall plot. They focused on broad story beats (the ending planned by Gurm) instead because D&D desperately wanted to be done.

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>>24708511

>>24708573
gurm blogposts are not exactly a reliable source of information haha

>>24708416
>they are universes apart
>no here's how they're similar
>HA THEY ARE ACTUALLY DIFFERENT UNIVERSES

>>24707414
When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east.

>>24707457
Edd’s a strange one, he was born poor but is from a noble family from the Vale.

Jets lost. Giants lost. Winds won’t publish this season boys

>>24709012
>Release of books dependent on New York having a good football season
If the patriots aren't in the superbowl, the Giants can't get anywhere near it. The Jets? They are the food of their division. We'll never get them

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>>24709012
>>24709061
>My reaction when winds depends on the success of Justin Fields

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>>24708416
What do you think of Euron chapter that was unveiled recently?

>>24709164
This goes hard.

>>24709012
George btfo
Giants gangrape the lord commanders of the nights watch, kings guard and city watch in winds confirmed

New morning throners episode guys!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVZfumo1-YQ
Get in there!

finish the books you fat fuck

Under what circumstances will Shireen be burned?

Anyone got the blog post where George says going to a wedding set him back months. Who plans this guys vacations. Still driving from New Mexico to Seattle? What the fuck? Just now he says he’s back at it three weeks later? Like a fuckin high schooler this guy. Sorry can’t write vacation in one week gotta pack. Sorry can’t write on vacation this month. Sorry can’t write just got back from vacation a couple weeks ago. Sorry can’t write gotta catch up on emails from the past two months. Sorry can’t write another vacation in a week. Rinse repeat. Fucker

What other fantasy books would you fine upstanding gentlemen recommend? :)

>>24710293
stannis is gonna start smonking the biggest nug of weed he can find n that lil bitch tries to take a honk and falls in

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>>24710489
The Elric Saga
The Dandelion Dynasty (only book 1, the rest are pretty meh. Book 1 gives a full story, the rest are a spin-off)

captcha: SHALOM

>>24710489
Malazan book of the Fallen

>>24710359
>Still driving from New Mexico to Seattle
Sounds like he hates flying

>>24706173
Nice poem. Here, take a (You).

>>24705957
>subverted

>>24705036
imbecile-tier take
just stop posting, retard

>>24710359
He's a an evil mother fucker who likes rubbing salt in his fans' wounds. I'm telling you this is all by design, he despises the people who love this story

Dany will wholeheartedly believe she can fix Euron when they meet. He is her type.

>new blogpost titled busy month
>he's busy with everything but writing

>>24711112
sad but true, i can definitely see the story going this way

>>24711112
Yes, 100%
Jon Snow is way too nice for her, that ship is simply never happening, Dany likes bad boys.
Faegon was wise to not waste time hitting her up.

>>24711111
He’s said if he was really cynical he’d write a fantasy series forever. Why though. Why meta reason could there be to hate a fantasy series and it’s fans, especially one you created. And not because they are pissed with how long it’s taken he’s said it in the 80’s. What’s cynical about keeping it going.

Holy fuck two blog posts in two days he must really be considering the possibility of thinking about the possibility of sitting down and thinking about maybe writing ij between his month long vacations that he takes every month.

>>24711127
>Jon Snow is way too nice
Showtard detected

>>24704910
He is not gonna have an ending where everybody dies because he clearly loves this world and chatacters too much and we can't have prolonged Long Night because zombies will just steamroll everything if they are not stopped fast, so yeah one climatic battle at Winterfell is how it must go in books too.

>>24711200
We've seen a vision of the Others at the trident thoughever.

>>24711200
Figured it was either Winterfell or The Gods Eye. Honestly I’m pretty sure he’ll pull a Tolkien and have the big battle be rise for Bran to do his thing. But you’re right it can’t last too long, especially the sort of logistics it would put on the story. It could be interesting if he could pull it off.

>>24711213
>Winterfell
>Winter
>Fell

Bravo, George

>>24711194
He’s still not bad boy enough for Dany
I’m not even sure Jaime would be bad boy enough for Dany. Her type is dark triad as fuck

>>24711230
He's got the same moody sadboy energy that made Lyanna weak in the knees for Rhaegar. She's going to ignore Faegon who will essentially be Quentyn 2.0 (the safe, boring, nice option that gives her the most political power) so she can ride her nephew like a proper Targ monarch.

>>24710359
He isn't even pretending to write anymore.

This latest blog post that you are referencing is just brutal in how much he doean't give a shit. https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2025/09/08/a-busy-month/

How do you go from being months away from completing the book back in 2015 to where we are now?

>>24711255
Dany isn’t into moody sadboys, she likes dangerous edgy MEN like Drogo and Daario. If she met Euron he’d make her wet as fuck, Jon would barely twitch the thermometer.
> She's going to ignore Faegon
Faegon already preemptively ignored her, for the best as she wouldn’t be into him.
He is destined to get groomed by Arianne Martell.

>>24711272
He either finished it or came close to finishing it in 2015-16, but it was another boring mess like books 4-5 that barely moved the plot along so he scrapped most of it and then show overtook him and spoiled the ending and he lost motivation to work on any books, he seemed to try write something during covid, but that went nowhere too.

>>24711180
The fat fuck can't even write it forever he wants to just keep it on edge like a bitch.
Fuck George.

>>24711180
Artists get this really weird complex where they feel like something else they did should be what they're known for and not something else.

>>24711280
>random tyroshi sellsword is more dangerous than a vengeful Zombie whose mind has merged with a magical carnivorous beast

>>24704514
Being a careless treacherous psychopath of a Northman.
>>24704597
Nigga what are you saying?

>>24704616
Nothing wrong with Vargo Hoat, you absolute pleb monster.

>>24711310
>But when Jon comes back he’s going to be…
1. If
2. At that point we’re not talking about a character that exists in the story. We’re talking about a different character that the fans made up and who can be whoever you want him to be.
So, basically, the only way Dany would be wet for Jon is if he was a completely different character.

>>24711322
>At that point we’re not talking about a character that exists in the story.
We are. You can find glimpses of him by reading when he snuck into Rast's room, when he savaged Tyrion, when he throttled Thorne, his last interaction with Gilly, him clobbering Iron Emmett ,his dream of beheading Robb etc. Jon tries to prove Catelyn wrong and be Ned Stark's honorable son but there is a real asshole underneath the surface who also happens to have some sort of superstrength when he isn't stonewalling his connection to Ghost because of a fear being seen as a warg.

>>24711392
By the same logic we can argue there’s glimpses of Cersei not being a total scumbag therefore TWOW is going to have good guy Cersei in it.
Fact remains, it’s not discussing a character that exists in the story. It’s discussing a fanfic that’s inspired by the story.

>>24711255
>He's got the same moody sadboy energy
Dany doesn't want a moody sadboy, she wants a cocky psycho killer.

>>24711461
There is no indication Cersei will ever be good. Meanwhile GRRM has stated in a 2008 panel about "Anti-Protagonsts" that Jon would soon be a much greyer character than we had seen in the past.

>Beneath her coverlets she tossed and turned, dreaming that Hizdahr was kissing her … but his lips were blue and bruised, and when he thrust himself inside her, his manhood was cold as ice.

The blue lips hint at Euron. The cold penis hints at an ice wight.

He posted it

>>24711512
Already happened in ADWD, what we just saw was it. Then he died.
Unless you think GRRM was already writing winds in 2008

>>24711686
He's been writing winds since the early 2000s. The mercy chapter was written before 2004.

>>24711686
>>24711704
He hasn't finished book four yet; but he's been planning since then.

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I always assumed this was foretelling 3 marriages (dothraki, greyjoy, lyanna's son) but then what the fuck is Hizdahr? Another weed in the garden?

>>24711908
The corpse is most likely JonCon

>>24711912
so it's not about marriages?

>>24711917
Not sure about that specific line.

It's not Euron, because two eyes and grey lips.
It can't be Theon, because the eunuch wouldn't make a sensible husband.
I guess it could be Victarion, but I wouldn't curse even my worst enemy with a marriage to that brute. And can he even give sad smiles?

JonCon makes sense being a walking corpse with grey lips, bright eyes full of purpose and a sad smile still dreaming of his silver prince.

>>24711948
Euron does have two eyes, the eyepatch is unironically to hide his Sharingan
The reason the lips are grey is because grey lips smiling is George spelling out Grey Joy

>>24711908
Hopefully Jon doesn’t marry her, he needs a pure waifu not some loose whore.

>>24712095
Though Euron is never alluded to using those symbols.
He shows up from time to time in Dany's dreams, but the prow corpse is not like him.

>>24712109
He lashes Aeron to the prow of his ship in The Forsaken chapter.

>>24712131
Huh, I'd not made that connection.
It could certainly be Aeron, and it connects with the smoking tower, stone beast and shadow fire part. (Which I'm hoping is Leyton's magical weapon)