>>24802573
You're abusing the enter key. Other than that, it's bad.

How do I stop accidentally bleeding into present tense?

>>24804226
oof

>>24804226
edit

Bros... /wng/ is being raided by coomers
If you see anyone posting porn, report them before they managed to get this thread deleted

Compare
https://pastebin.com/ruwQj7xQ
with
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSNZali-jIk2MASsAWVf8N7A8BlSyzPbAFV_BhsA5Ip3SWfMPWKxaXf8Pdb7f0TgFyWis31BzirtPeR/pubhtml

>>24804267
it's over

I wish I could write but I have this blank ambivalence about everything so I can't tell which ideas are good and which are bad, and I don't have a good grasp of the technical aspects of language.

>reread a book i wrote long ago
>it's so embarrassing
>can't believe i wrote this nonsense
>filled with rape, torture, sex, incest, and anime fantasy shit all over
what the hell was wrong with me?

>>24804279
It is. The /wng/ thread was deleted.

Guess /wng/ is done for
What's everyone reading on royalroad right now?
Also, that dumb whore broke 30k

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>>24804336
We only read this Victoria story here on /wg/

It was one of you wasn't it/wg/fags? One of you retards spammed the /wng/ thread with porn and got it deleted

>/wng/cucks immediately start shitting up the thread by spamming their stories here
Great

>>24804360
>nooooo le porn
>anime girls in bikinis
>naughty bits blurred out
that's not porn. what are you, children?

>>24804258
>shit on /wg/
>AAAAAAA PLEASE HELP
No.

Threads are automatically deleted if they get a lot of reports and deleted posts.

>>24804290
This is the Writing General, not I Wish I Could Write General.

>>24804387
You must be new here.

/wng/ shall be avenged a hundred fold Inshallah

>>24804360
I doubt it. There's not enough participants in this thread anymore to be relevant, much less mount a raid.

This 8-6 work grind is really hurting my prospects of becoming a billionaire by writing fantasy novels.

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>>24804362
Just realized After Moses was stubbed and the Knight Dragon one was translated from a different language and has nonexistant dialogue tags. It's truly over. That just leaves Undercurrent saga then...

>>24804383
Makes sense
That thread gets a lot of reports of spamming/advertising

>>24804417
It was just one spamtranny though

Guys I just had a great idea. Let's make this entire thread a eulogy for /wng/ and the trash people and trash writing in it instead of about actual writing. What do you think?

finally someone made a new thread
was everyone too busy writing?

>>24804444
>everyone too busy writing?
Hopefully. We got some storytellers with real potential in the last thread.

>>24804383
the mod just couldn't be bothered to deal with the raid and deleted the entire thread

>>24804355
something about the "proof enough she'll" line bothers me. i know the tense is probably technically correct, but it doesn't feel right.

>>24804382
The whole /wng/ vs /wg/ was started and instigated by two /wg/ lolcows
One still post here and is the retard obsessed with magazines who claims to be a literary who Russian author
The other is a sperg that got bullied off here and latched on onto /wng/, having melties everyday other day, shilling his garbage and even tried to turn the general into his personal army to raid someone (it failed, obviously)

>>24804444
I line edited half of an old 7k chapter to make it consistent with the newer narrative, took a break to dawdle in another hobby, then began reading.

I wish I was a little bit brighter
I wish I was a writer
I wish I had a plot that was good
I would write her

>>24804336
>reading
when will we have a /rg/ - reading general

We should have a substack general desu

>>24804474
treat it as a honeypot and permaban all posters after a week like that one furry board moot made

>>24804470
>reading
You must be new here.

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Here is the result of 5 years of off-and-on work. I even spent a few hours looking up poems about Autumn for inspiration, but it didn't help at all.

>>24804502
can you post the parts where something happens

>>24804502
Yeah, it's not good. I don't think anyone wants to read an entire page of dragging sentences that could be summarized as "it's fall".

>>24804517
I haven't gotten to actually writing those parts yet. Like I said, I've been working on finishing this first.
>>24804520
Well, darn. I guess I could just nix the prologue, but I kind of wanted to be able to circle back around to it at the end of the book. If the writing was better, I think it could theoretically hold the reader's attention. I'll keep working on it.

>>24804528
>If the writing was better, I think it could theoretically hold the reader's attention.
Lace it in between things that are actually happening and in ways that are complimentary to what's happening.

My novella is about a man who is mentally ill, struggling to deal with normal human interactions.

A lot of it is him talking to himself in his own head.

>The elevator dings, the rows of cubicles stretch out dauntingly. His private office tantalizingly far away. If he can just get there he can start some work. He makes sure his small smile and softened eyes replace his usual blank face and steps into his personal hell

>*Marissa's trying to play solitaire without anyone finding out, she never does any work. Jayden's taking to Claire, he's always talking to the women, it can't be about work, none of them do any work I've seen their productivity reports. He's still angry I got promoted over him, i didn't ask for this, hah, Adam Jensen. or was it never asked for this? can't remember, should play it again. There's mike, always eating, I've surprised he's not fatter. ok ok yep just a nod, half wave, don't say anything, keep moving keep moving almost to my office, almost safe*

It's his perspective that there is some conspiricy against him and he's being followed, and that if people realize he's mentally ill they will kill him. He worked in an IT department doing the night shift alone until he was forced into a promotion to management. The story starts there and ends badly for everyone involved when two women from the office go missing, and turn up dead.

>>24804544
wait, my question.

Is it worth writing the whole thing in first person, or should I write in normal 3rd person except his inner thoughts, and have them in italics?

>>24804549
We won't know unless you write the first chapter in first person then determine if it's better or not

>>24804533
In that case I'd just have to nix it entirely. The prologue is the character at 18 about to graduate high school writing about the summer between third and fourth grade where all the story actually happens.

>>24804549
If he's going to be doing that much thinking, then it'll probably be easier to write it all in first-person. Entire paragraphs of italicized text might be annoying for the reader (and for you, writing it).

>>24804549
I personally dont like first person, it gets old fast. An insane character is a good excuse to use it. The caveat is that everything is going to be colored by their perspective without juxtaposition to reality. You have to work a lot harder to make him seem crazy, and that's harder to do convincingly if you've never experienced it. Like >>24804565 said, paragraphs of it is going to be obnoxious, and so will a ton of back and forth between narrative voices. If you insist on that, maybe do his perspective almost like intrusive thoughts, short and stilted, generally interrupting the narrative in limited ways where it would be most impactful.

WNG IS FUCKING DEAD AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>24804588
Even this sounds annoying when I think about it. But I'd guess intrusive thoughts are probably annoying.

>>24804502
The fatal flaw of this is that your voice is not plausible. This is how you, the writer, think about that last summer all those years ago, it's now how a kid thinks about it in the moment. Even if they do feel some vague sense of melancholy it's almost never going to be such an overwhelming dread like is on display here.

You can only get away with something this over the top if you've built the character up enough to justify it, which you by definition have not done because it's a prologue and this is the first thing we ever read.

>>24804528
You can write this without the melodrama and add the melodrama back in each time you return to it. Your character is a moron at the start in this prologue, thinking about their last summer, then you can return to it later on and add in this greater depth of loss upon reflection.

It occurs to me that this might already be meant as reflection, that the character is reliving their last summer. If this is the case you need to signpost it MUCH more thoroughly than you are doing (i.e. more than not at all).

>>24804593
>>24804588
>>24804565

He is very aware that he is crazy, and his facsimile of a personality is breaking down.

The book is in first person until the end, where it becomes 3rd person following the allegedly not insane police investigating the murders, to show how the events actually went down objectively, not just in his mind

>>24804595
>It occurs to me that this might already be meant as reflection, that the character is reliving their last summer. If this is the case you need to signpost it MUCH more thoroughly than you are doing (i.e. more than not at all)
That's what it is. The conceit is that the character is writing the book. This is the end of her "last" summer vacation (because she's graduated highschool and is going to enter the working world) and the book is the story about her "first" summer, years ago, when she was a 3rd grader. I think you're right that I might need to telegraph that more in this opening part. It comes up in a few paragraphs, I just didn't want to post the whole prologue. That's good advice though, so thank you for the feedback.

>>24804387
I tried riffing out the start of a horror story but already running into problems like how to attribute speech without getting repetitive or if you should breakup speech between different characters with description of their manner at the time. This is hard.

>>24804601
That's a great idea (the switch to the cops), but then I would say you should definitely follow >>24804588
advice and really try to make the insanity extend over everything he sees. If the person is insane, even if they know they are insane, they only know it the way an insane person would know it. Their idea of insanity would be just as insane as their idea of sanity is. If the character is crazy, they can't be a fundamentally rational about almost anything, because then they aren't really crazy, they are just quirky.

By the way /wng/ has a new thread up

>>24804611
Don't be afraid to use "said" a million times. Readers don't actually notice it. Breaking up with description is fine as long as you allow characters to at least sometimes just "said" things. Erring on the side of not breaking things up is also fine, as long as your book isn't all dialogue and you do sometimes ground the characters in the world. Most people in the real world talk while they're doing other things and do other things while they talk.

>>24804611
>how to attribute speech without getting repetitive
>breakup speech between different characters with description of their manner at the time
Both horrible noob mistakes, never get in the way of the dialogue. "He said", "she said", and only when it's not obvious who's speaking. Never "he said laughingly" or "she snickered". When you're reading you're not really fully conscious of those tags, you sweep right over it. It's annoying for you to write, but it's there not for you.

The school had graciously paid for the printing of a new rules handbook for every student.

Like the young ladies it concerns, a dress code is full of compromises shrouded in innuendo. The rule on minimum skirt length sparked a miniature fashion revolution so that the girls went from floral box pleats to dainty daisy dukes. But now they have moved on to protesting the ban on exposed shoulders. The girls made jokes comparing them to visible ankles, while little Johnny, aware that little Jenny had brazenly defied the rules by wearing flip-flops, dropped his pencil for the seventh time.

>>24804302
Post a passage.

>>24804462
heh

>>24804628
>>24804629
My instinct is to just not attribute speech and let the context do it. As for description I guess I thought doing back and forth speech would necessitate too many line breaks and make the page feel empty. It's a fun exercise though. I've got a handful of paragraphs and I'm trying to figure out where I'm going next.

>>24804302
You must cringe at all of your cringe work so that you may become based

>>24804701
It's definitely possible to never attribute speech and have nobody notice. Line breaks in dialogue aren't a bad thing, that negative space is relieving for the reader.

>>24804718
>Line breaks in dialogue aren't a bad thing, that negative space is relieving for the reader.
That's true, I was thinking about the story as "If I can get to ten pages that'd be pretty good" so having a bunch of line beaks would be "cheating" but I don't even have a story really I just have an opening scene and an outline of a main character and setting. So I'll just see where it goes.

Some say that there's a million shit words in you that need to come out first before you write in quality. Per your estimation, how far toward that million are you?
>self pubbo author
>700,000 give or take a 100k

>>24804730
Maybe I should take a creative writing class rather than learn by trial and error.

>>24804730
I think I'm somewhere around 5 million at this point

>>24804730
400k words on one story, 40k on new one

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Tried to write a horror short story, here's all I got. I don't have any idea what the horror will be but it's a pretty standard setup for a horror tale.

>>24804621
Nah, this is OUR general now

>>24804549
You can also have the inner thoughts be in 3rd person. Here's a paragraph from what I'm writing as an example. Only bit of background that's really needed for this is that he's paranoid about getting too friendly with people.

He let himself sleep in. He needed it and it wasn't like he had work in the morning. When he finally did get up, he decided to treat himself. He had done back-to-back gigs for the past month. He wasn't hurting for cash so he could afford to give himself time to rest before the next one. He strolled aimlessly around the city. That cafe? No, he'd been there too often. Last time he was there, the barista asked him if he wanted "the usual." He had to find somewhere else. He kept walking until he found a food truck he had seen before but never stopped at. Might as well try something new.

>>24804782
You have some editing to do, maybe some grammar to learn. You're switching back and forth between past and present tense, you're not formatting for dialogue. You should probably work on those things before you expect much in the way of feedback here.

>>24804730
>>24804732
just like anything else in life, you can always learn much more efficiently/purposefully. if 'just writing' worked on its own, there wouldn't be so much TRASH

>>24804418
Fantasy is for retards and retards don’t have money. This thread discourages the writing of genreslop, anyway. If you want to make a name for yourself writing crap, go to the web novel general. Intellectuals only, here.

All genre distinction is fake. The distinction between fiction and philosophical works also feels fake once you've read enough of both (of high quality). Why would anyone willingly adopt the language of publishers? It's time to become more interesting.

>>24805213
Sure, as long as there’s no stupid shit like elves and laser swords. Leave that to the children. The retarded ones.

>>24805235
I think the main silly thing about all that would be to pretend such concepts can be separated from reality in any real way, escapism style.

>>24805235
hey, what's wrong with laser swords?

>>24805320
I’m sure they’re perfectly fine in a story chock full of onomatopoeia. They have no place in a proper writing.

>>24804658
Nice
>>24804782
Why oh why is everyone so obsessed with present-tense these days?
Dialogue usually needs it's own paragraph when a new person is speaking. A few times I had to read back because I lost track of who was speaking.
Why are they both being such dicks to Greaves, lol?

>>24805209
Genre fiction is the only literature left worth writing. Overly long "novels" written by neurotic, naval-gazing losers are worth less than the even the worst chick-porn you can find on Wattpad.

>>24805536
nonfiction, semi/autobiographical and historical fiction mogs as you get older. i still read genre though

>>24805522
>Why are they both being such dicks to Greaves, lol?
They look down on him since he's a mental patient.

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>>24805536
>Genre fiction is the only literature left
>Overly long "novels" written by neurotic, naval-gazing losers are worth less
but you just described genre fiction

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>>24805536
>naval-gazing

>>24805616
Ahh, I missed that. I thought he was just a down-on-his-luck criminal looking for a job. It makes more sense now.

>>24805605
I'm not gonna knock another man's particular tastes, but I disagree. Good fiction will always have the preeminent position when it comes to literature.
>>24805623
Touche

/wg/ sucks

/wng/ is where the real talent is

>>24805699
autofiction and historical fiction are good fiction...

>>24805711
Nuh uh. You dumb fucks with genreslop

>>24805112
>You're switching back and forth between past and present tense
I only switched to past tense when describing things that happened in the past.

>>24804216
I'll try to format it better next time, just wanted to make it easier to read. How's the content itself, though? And is it noticeable that English is my second language?

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>>24805209
I was subjected to some random isekai sloppa and I swear I'm going to just pump out 50 of them so I can actually finish a story for once

>>24804258
why? Is it even possible writing a good novel using a porn plot?

>>24805811
>How's the content itself, though?
Really fucking gay. Gay enough that people don't like dicks in their butts likely won't read past a few sentences to even judge the quality of the writing, or the content.

>>24805850
Thanks for the critique! Could you let me know what I can do to improve? Please?

>>24805921
Make it less gay.

>>24805960
Honestly, now I'm sad and depressed thanks anon now I'm gonna kms

>>24805921
I don't want to read about twinks. You need to find a gay man or a woman to critique your writing if you want to write a homoerotic story about a twink. Sorry.

>>24804470
kek

>>24804502
It drags on. Each sentence feels longer than it needs to be. Why not just says "Migratory birds", why must it be "Flocks of migratory birds". "through a lense dyed a little pink" feels excessive in the context too as it provides no implication on the concept of rose tinted glasses anyways—something that's already implied in the first clause and prior sentences.

All this is needs is some careful editing. Calling it just "bad" is reductive

>>24805773
Well, I tried. Good luck.

>>24804355
Why are you posting my story? Sheesh. I'll post the rest of the chapter then

>>24806006
This is a lot of help. I guess I'm just trying to hard to make it profound and melencholy, but everyone seems to agree that it's just bloated and excessive. I'll work harder on it. Thank you.

>>24806022
No that's okay

>>24805993
Oh, I understand now. Thanks nonetheless

>>24805209
>Fantasy is for retards and retards don’t have money.
Are you dumb? Mass market genre writing is the only kind that does make consistent money. Real literature is for starving artists.

>>24806035
We're all guilty of doing this sometimes. Reading your work help me reflect on my own writing so the feeling's mutal. When you read a lot of great novels, you realise less is more, more often than not.

When painting a picture you need to remember a reader has his own brushes, if you get my meaning.

The truth is, prologues are inherently boring. If things are to be verbose and drawn out, it should not be the prologue. It's better to take some of these images you want to paint and maybe spread them out more. Unlike poems, you have a lot more space to fill.

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>>24806039
if you insist

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>>24806131

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>>24806133

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First paragraph for an upcoming essay. Philosophie L'amatrice, merci beaucoup

>>24806269
>the present moment floods us constantly, yet slips away more easily than ever.
What are you even trying to say here?
>What Kant placed beyond experience now presses against us in real time.
What?

Here's the problem with schizo philosophy, they're never ever clear exactly what they're trying to say. Instead of writing your nonsense, just write
>People are distracted by too many stimuli around them. This causes them to not be able to focus on a single goal or direction and instead, their attention is spread across different interests. I propose a new model that appeals to the 21st century man: the Nowmina.

In other words, I shall provide other men with sexual access to my wife because instead of getting a job, learning a trade, or becoming useful to society, my contributions to the world is to provide sexual relief to others by giving up my wife. I do not view my wife as a person, only a warm body to satisfy the sexual desires of other men.

That is the Nowmina.

>>24806331

Whoa anon you thought I had a wife? Thanks man.

Also thanks for the edit. I shall take it and not give you any credit.

Stay loved.

>sit down to write
>two hours go by
>I have one paragraph written
What causes this?

>>24806369
you're just deep in thought. that's a good thing

>>24806374
But what about writing?

>>24806392
inspiration can be cultivated. make a habit of writing by making a good environment for it. do sprints—10 or 15 minute ones are fine. be consistent, every day if you can. soon the muscles will strengthen.

inspiration is still ultimately given to us, so be patient. even if you only write a sentence a day, that's better than zero.

keep going. don't let anything stop you.

>>24806131
No need to ask for more input. You are ready to publish this. Don't keep the audience waiting.

>>24806139
What's the moral of this story?

>>24806560
Christ can forgive even the most heinous of sins.

for the normies

Dreams will die and everyone must face reality no matter how difficult it may be.

>>24806566
Don't you think there's enough written about these exact things?

>>24806572
What is old will be new again. Most stories today are about achieving your dreams with hard work, moral fortitude, and a bit of magic. A feel good story where a common girl with her cunning and goodness achieves the dreams she set out a decade ago.

This story is about dreams dying and forced into a role the person never wanted to do.

>>24806590
that said, it's basically a simple revenge story.

Where do I read this victoria thing?

>>24806665
You can find it under "My Documents".

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>spent weeks writing chapter of online novel
>0 reviews
Why do people write?

>>24806699
>writing for gratification
ngmi

>>24806457
Who is giving me this inspiration and how can I stab him

>>24806269
I like it. It's Ignatiusian, especially expecting the reader to put up with the silly neologism. For some reason reminds me of one of those "how to keep an idiot busy" jokes floating around the web. You wrote what like 150 words using some fancy-ass sesquipedalianisms and yet said so little.
>With that,
lol
>I propose a new model:
I am agog. Stunning & brave.
I'll give you more feedback in a moment. Just a moment. Be patient for a moment.

>>24806331
>>24806331
NTA but I think that first sentence is about information overload. All of us are exposed to such a heavy stream of information from these screens we have everywhere; it becomes easy to go numb to it all, or fall helpless in front of it, or both. The second one comes after the text turned into nonsense and I cannot help you interpret it. Not sure why you brought up your sex fantasies out of nowhere.

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>>24806729
this bitch. use schizo powers to stab.

Guy writing about the schizoid here. Still planning things out, building the actual plot before writing properly. I've mostly only write fan fiction and movie reviews.

Two questions for the group.
1. How on the nose should I make the names? JKRowling obvious? I want the readers to really get the sense that he MC is a serial killer from the get go. Think of a Dexter type thing except he's pathetic and barely holding his fake personality together. Something like calling him Damien Cross, I havnt brought of a name for him.

Title ideas.
Empty mask?
Hollow man?
The Husk?
Facsimile?
In plain sight?

His red flags get worse and more obvious to those around him until he gets fired and goes on the run

>>24807026
Just fucking write it

>>24807026
>I want the readers to really get the sense that he MC is a serial killer from the get go.
Just mention say his full name, middle name included.

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>>24807038
>writing without planning it out

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Rate my fanfic

>>24807111
You're smarter than George Retard Retard Martin. We all are.

How important is your sexual orientation and/or gender identity to your writing? I ask because I’m reading a book about horror publishing and the author seems very intent on pointing out writers who were gay or trans. He doesn’t discuss how that might have influenced their work, though. I’m unclear why it’s so important, then.

>>24807133
What do you know about tax policies? And if he’s so dumb then how is he one of the most influential and successful fantasy writers of our time?

>>24804544
Most works of fictions involve an element of wish fulfillment. What exactly is your target audience?

>>24805355
Guess it's time to remind the thread that "literary fiction" is just the "drama" genre.

>>24804211
Write for yourself first, then you can worry about communicating to other people. You don't need to write for literary excellence, nor pen the next doorstopper bestseller. We have been storytelling for as long as humans have existed, in every period and every epoch of mankind, whether they were cavemen, or subsistence farmers, or kings, or revolutionaries, or men of science, or enlightenment men, or whatever. What is important about your life right now and what do you want to communicate to other people? There should be a common thread in all your writing, your poetry, or your spoken word, and you should be able to tell me why that is important to you to communicate. Even when you're in the most horrid circumstances of life, you should be able to tell a story about what you are experiencing.

>>24807198
He got lucky, plus a fair amount of his writing is softcore porn.

I hate that writing takes up so much time. It's possibly the most time-consuming activity per "content." You basically have to live for this.

>>24807442
The point is to make this guy so clearly the killer, with the clever twist of him pretending not to be and being from his perspective, like he's got a split personality and is psychotic. He's Dexter in denial, but nowhere near as slick. He's not some cool guy hunting down pedophiles. It's the women he works with, he's terrified of them.

>>24807479
Write to the point where it makes you happy. You come first. It's not like anyone's expecting and waiting for you to shit something out that will only be bad because it's you forcing it. You got this. Just let it flow naturally.

bros the webnovel general is making fun of us again....

>>24807498
We need to make sure we write better novels than they do

>>24807498
Why do you think of them at all?

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>>24807506
We need to be better writers.

Shit fuck fuck fuck fuck why is there a meeting? I'm not below the performance metrics, ‘m right in that comfortable top 10 percent, below the top 5. I should never have a performance review with those numbers, it’s against company policy, automatic contract extension and pay rise at double inflation.
"Hey there, Gavin”
ARRRGH this fucking guy is ALWAYS at the coffee machine, how the hell he stays above the performance improvment plan metric number I will never know

“Hey George, how’s it going?”

“Always winning, you?”

“Oh I’m great as always”

I am such a liar I am freaking out here. This stupid fucking company and these fucking people always wanting to talk to me. okokok, here we are, at the office, let’s just kno-

“GAVIN! Come on in ya bastard!”

Fuck, it’s this greaseball. His hair always slicked back with so much oil, I've never actually met someone who put oil in their hair, the smell of a barber shop, eugh it’s dripped on the shoulders of that gross blue pinstripe suit he always wears, and an orange tie. Eugh. He knows nothing about IT how the fuck is this incompetent fat fuck my boss?
“Mr. Stephens, good to see you.”

“Hi, George. Thanks for coming”

Oh fuck it’s the actual boss. 70 and still working with millions in the bank. Liver spots and whisps of hair in a terrible combover. Just shave it. Get a hair transplant, you have money. He’s always calm, probably the only one here not putting me on edge, But I just know he’s trying to trick me somehow. Nobody is this calm all the time.

“My. Peters, oh dear, I must be in real trouble, did the security patch cause problems? It was fine in the testing environment”

He puts up a hand meekly to stop me rambling

“it’s fine, I’d offer you a drink but I know... you will just say you’re... fine”
fuck, has he clocked me? Fuck i should have move on before someone noticed

“yes, I’m fine”

Clink? Oh come on, Really Stephens? It’s 8AM on a monday, and you’re pouring yourself a whiskey?

“Well, I’d like to talk to you about your... performance”
what, my performance is fine, who the fuck are you to question my ability?

>>24807544
i fucked up the MC name on page one i am going to kill myself

>>24807544
“I’m in the top 10%, I check the metrics daily”
“yes... you are in the top 10%, every month. For over 3 years now”
fuck. What have i done? 10% should be safe

“Yeah, how the hell did ya manage that?

Fuck i wish this guy would choke on that ice what the fuck who fills the entire cup with whiskey how sloshed is this asshole?

“Well, I guess I just focus on my job”

“Well... that’s certainly impressive. Are you aware that the top 5% get put up for promotion?”
Of course I am that’s why I've never gotten that high

“Yes, I guess I just can’t quite make that grade”

“well, we’ve changed the algorithm a bit upstairs”

Fuck fuck fuck am i really that shit I thought I was doing well how badly have i fucked it up

“see,...with the old system... we only took the number of tickets completed into account... not the complexity”
wait, oh no

“And also... we never considered when tickets needed to be reopened... because the solution wasn’t escalated or completed properly.

Was I just doing easy tickets for years? Oh fuck i should of known i was shit at this like im shit at everything.

“well, I don’t control the tickets that are sent my way, I just do what I can and rely on the performance metrics. If they have changed then that shouldn’t work against-”
ARRRGRHRHHTHGHGGH HIS HAND IS ON MY SHOULDER GET OFF GET OFFFFF ARRRRRRGGGHHHHH HIS OILY FUCKING HAND IS ON MY SHOULDER OH MY GOD THE GRIME ON THAT WATCH WHO WEARS A WATCH I CAN FEEL HIS ALCOHOLIC BREATH ON ME ARRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHH

“Stop yappin mate, The new metrics put you as our number one IT liason!”

Oh... wait

“actually... when we use the new metrics... he’s been the number one... since he got here...”
Oh fuck this is worse please go back to firing me

“ya bein promoted mate! Welcome to managment, one tenth of the work, ten times the pay!”

“um... well... roughly triple your current pay... at least for the first year... and there is still work it’s just different”
I am suddenly Chandler Bing, could i BE more having a panick attack? Aslo, i think doing drugs and dying in a hot tub is a great idea right now. This is the worst fuck fuck fuck

“well, if the metrics have changed I’m, sure that next month we can-”
“oh, so you can... go back to being in the top 10% to get the automatic raises... but never getting promoted?”
how the fuck did he know my plan? Oh fuck he knows he knows he knows what if he knows what i am fuck fuck

“you’ve... secretly been a”

OH FUCK HE KNOWS

“... great employee down in the IT basement... we need to not waste that talent”
OH FUCK HE HAS NO IDEA
“well, I appreciate the thought but, I’m not a manager

“That’s actually the problem, mate, 90% of our managers have no fuckin clue what the fuck they are doing. They just ask you lot and then do whatever you suggest. In fact, we would cripple the enitre middle management of the company if blocked that chat gpt thing. I remember programming a poker AI on my commodre 64 back in the day, with just the manual and BASIC text book”
“Yes... i remember... you won that cometition”
“damn fuckin right”
“and... for our new friend here, how did your AI work?”
“oh it fuckin didn’t, it just went all in every hand and the other AIs freaked out and folded HAHAHAHA”
Oh my god i can’t do this

“so... I want you to take the day off... consider what you will wear tomorrow”
I have 5 of these identical polo shirts with the company logo on them... Oh fuck io can’t do fashion what the fuck do these people even wear

“Actually, where the fuck did ya get these shirts from? I can’t remember when we had shirts with the logo on them”
oh fuck i should really lie

“I had them screen printed”
oh my god their faces I should have lied

“AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA”
“HOLY SHIT AHAHAHAHAHAHA WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU!??!?!”

I should have lied, oh god they know what i am THEY KNOW

0x00

Ours is a world in vertigo. It is a world that swarms with technological mediation, interlacing our daily lives with abstraction, virtuality, and complexity. XF constructs a feminism adapted to these realities: a feminism of unprecedented cunning, scale, and vision; a future in which the realization of gender justice and feminist emancipation contribute to a universalist politics assembled from the needs of every human, cutting across race, ability, economic standing, and geographical position. No more futureless repetition on the treadmill of capital, no more submission to the drudgery of labour, productive and reproductive alike, no more reification of the given masked as critique. Our future requires depetrification. XF is not a bid for revolution, but a wager on the long game of history, demanding imagination, dexterity and persistence.

0x01

XF seizes alienation as an impetus to generate new worlds. We are all alienated – but have we ever been otherwise? It is through, and not despite, our alienated condition that we can free ourselves from the muck of immediacy. Freedom is not a given–and it’s certainly not given by anything ‘natural’. The construction of freedom involves not less but more alienation; alienation is the labour of freedom’s construction. Nothing should be accepted as fixed, permanent, or ‘given’–neither material conditions nor social forms. XF mutates, navigates and probes every horizon. Anyone who’s been deemed ‘unnatural’ in the face of reigning biological norms, anyone who’s experienced injustices wrought in the name of natural order, will realize that the glorification of ‘nature’ has nothing to offer us–the queer and trans among us, the differently-abled, as well as those who have suffered discrimination due to pregnancy or duties connected to child-rearing. XF is vehemently anti-naturalist. Essentialist naturalism reeks of theology–the sooner it is exorcised, the better.

0x02

Why is there so little explicit, organized effort to repurpose technologies for progressive gender political ends? XF seeks to strategically deploy existing technologies to re-engineer the world. Serious risks are built into these tools; they are prone to imbalance, abuse, and exploitation of the weak. Rather than pretending to risk nothing, XF advocates the necessary assembly of techno-political interfaces responsive to these risks. Technology isn’t inherently progressive. Its uses are fused with culture in a positive feedback loop that makes linear sequencing, prediction, and absolute caution impossible. Technoscientific innovation must be linked to a collective theoretical and political thinking in which women, queers, and the gender non-conforming play an unparalleled role.

>>24807558
I should have lied, oh god they know what i am THEY KNOW

“I would have promoted you years ago if I knew you were that dedicated!”

“yes... that is quite the... choice. We need to finalize your promotion, we’ll meet you back here around 1:00, ok?
I am so not ok what the actual fuck is happening i can’t do this

“Sure, sounds great”
I want to fucking jump out of that window

“Oh, you’ll be introduced to your new team as well”
“team?”
“yes, you will be responsible for a team of 15 people starting tomorrow, you need to get to know them”
no. I barely remember your name and it’s on the office

“great, I look forward to it” I lied
I’m lying, I'm actually going to die. Self delete. Pull a Kurt Cobain, except without the tranny girlfriend. I want to hide in my little IT hole in the server room and not talk to anyone for 3 days at a time.

I am going to go throw up now, see ya!
Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck

>>24807564
>>24807558
>>24807552
>>24807544

I imagine this as the cold open.

Next chapter as he gathers his things from the IT department, he explains to the reader through his internal monologue how he is not a real person, and if anyone else realizes that, they will kill him. His attempt to go under the radar is so committed that he changed his name to something less memorable, moved to a city nobody knows him, etc

>>24807558
oh and i changed part of that, he has the morning off. I don't want him to be able to relax and process this, i want him stressed and panicked.

How do I master rhythm and flow in prose? Do I have to learn poetry first?

>>24807644
Just read more books

>>24807523
And that starts with not using AI to generate lazy slop

>>24807726
Preach, sister.

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>>24807498

Hello, anons. There’s a magazine made by and for students from my course, and I’d like to submit one of my works to appear alongside other texts and drawings sent in by my classmates. The thing is, I’ve had a problem for a while now (3 years): I sketch out ideas for texts but never finish them, and most don’t even get past the planning stage (just the premise description).

But I really want my text to appear there. I also have a vague but interesting idea of what to write about. Do you have any advice that could help me actually finish this text?

Main reasons I abandon drafts:

- Sometimes I finish a writing session and set the manuscript aside to continue later, but I never return to it—maybe because writing is more demanding than just using the computer.
- What I’ve written turns out so good that I’m afraid to keep developing the story and end up ruining it somehow.
- A bit related to the previous one (this happened once or twice): I don’t have enough knowledge or experience to handle certain elements that are essential to the idea, so I don’t know how to work with or develop the premise (for example: a London forensic journalist who goes insane and kills his girlfriend).

Those are the reasons I can remember. There may be others, but I thought it was relevant to list them anyway. There are 10 days left until the manuscript submission deadline, and I’ll be busy studying, so I don’t have much time to write.

And I repeat: do you have any advice that could help me finish this text?

Thank you.

>>24807674
Okay so you have no idea.

>>24807479
>writing takes up so much time
Just make an LLM do the heavy lifting

>>24807741
For some reason, when I do this I end up not liking my own stuff as much, even if I heavily edit it and it's technically more competent.

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>>24807739

>>24807744
I wonder why that could be.

>>24807741
The AI can't produce anything worth shit. It's all right, if you only want to churn out bland slop for fun, but completely useless for anything that's supposed to have any genuine thought or personality. You'll just end up having to rewrite everything yourself.

>>24807195
For publishing? It's very important because only gays and women work in publishing and they only want to publish gays and women.

>>24807750
Uhm actually some very successful works have already been produced using LLM so maybe you should stop being a Luddite.

>>24807747
What's your opinion?

>>24807746
Thanks. Reflecting on my own past, it's exactly like that.

Another reejction today. I love it when they get back to you fast

>>24807498
All of you fags writing genrelsop need to go slop it up at /wng not here

>>24807862
My book (How I Went Through a Portal and Became a Demon King) is not "genre fiction" and I resent people assuming it is.

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>try to write all day
>nothing seems to come out
>every word is a struggle
>8 PM
>want to give up and just play vidya
>the floodgates suddenly open and the story just won't stop coming
how does this make any sense?

>>24807879
Habit

>>24807741
LLM is good for capitalizing letters. Saves your pinkies a lot of stress.

>>24807862
Not a single lit slop has been posted yet. You start

>>24807484
Sounds somewhat similar to a story I'm writing except that mine actually does have a split personality.

>>24807198
I know the best policy is to not pay taxes. Mr. Retard Retard Martin is successful because 1. he's lucky and 2. he took all of the depth and thought from Tolkien's work and replaced it with sex and food because he's a fat, horny, double retard.

Sometimes I play around with AI going through story scenarios. It can be quite surprising what the AI comes up with.

I prompted it with a fantasy story where MC is from a poor family and their outlook is bad. His older sister became a hooker and even took a Prostitute class to earn enough money to offer her younger brother, MC, a chance to study and get an apprenticeship or a good Class. The AI decided that it would be cool to offer MC this kind of a class:
>Eros Binder was no myth—a legendary class, rarer than Dreadnought, hidden in tomes smuggled from the Arcane Vaults. Unlike the cold requirements of height and brawn for warriors, this one demanded emotional fire: a deep, taboo connection with a blood relative, tested through mutual, unrestrained intimacy.
I have no idea where this came from, I was angling towards a self-sacrificial sister, but apparently AI decided that incest would be cool.

I like it.

>>24808321
Consider wisely before passing any of your writing through an LLM in any way, shape, or form and for any reason, goal, or purpose.

>>24808716
When you play around with an LLM what you're seeing is your own lexcion put into a blender and spit back out at you in whatever order happens to make something comprehensible.

>>24808836
shit you used ai to capitalize that c didnt u

>>24808843
Is the shift key an AI?

>>24808846
if you actually had a shift key, you'd know that pressing it doesn't automatically capitalize the next letter you type. dumb self-hating ai

>spend the whole day at work thinking about writing
>at home, stare at a blank page for hours before going to sleep
Why is it like this?

Don't you guys find it funny that people tell you to read as self-help advice, but no one tells you to write?

I legitimately don't understand these anons with writers block. I have the opposite problem. I can't turn the damn faucet off. It's actually starting to affect my life. I've been putting off chores and work tasks for a week now and was finally able to break out of it today after nearly fucking up at work.

>>24808873
the brain is tricky. it might be because being distracted, your mind 'fills in the blanks' with stuff, but when you sit down to write now it has to actually be a coherent thought with all parts supplied by actual mindpower.
>>24808886
writer's block covers a huge range of subtly different problems, so it's easy to fall prey to one of them.

>>24808886
Writing well is harder.

>>24808878
People can write write write but if they don't feed their brain good literature they'll only produce crap.

The first step of becoming a good writer is having good taste. And the only way to cultivate that is to read good books. "Writing"(in the artistic sense) isn't a mechanical skill like illustration or instrumentation, where simply repeating the process of recreation (an image or a melody) is a valid means of improvement, as writing is measured on its ideas and expression of those ideas. How can you expect to produce something good if you don't know what good is? You can't make it yourself (at least not yet, you can tell yourself) so the only solution is to read.

>>24808909
Have any examples of good literature for the brain?

>>24808989
Wind and Truth by Brandon Sanderson

>>24806139
Is that it? What happens next? She beats up Rena and takes Marcellus back?

>>24808850
What are you even talking about? What does that have to do with anything?

>people actually want to read the Victoria slop
Proof that marketing works no matter what.

>>24809035
[citation needed]

>>24809035
It's well written and I'm intrigued why both pagan and Christianity are mentioned in the text. Is this a clash of faith? Does she convert? Why give her a Roman name if she comes from a house of Pagans? Is she going to get fucked by fat old men or kidnap Rena and have fat old men rape her? What's Priscillas role in all this?

>>24808842
That's not true. I definitely never used the word "Arcane" or "Vaults" or "Eros" or "binder" or even words like "legendary" or "myth" during my prompts.
LLMs absolutely make up new shit that you didn't prompt for it the LLM thinks it fits.

>>24809035
If only they wanted to read MY Victoria slop....

>>24809206
we do want to read your victoria slop. but you never post it in a easy to read jpeg that is well integrated for the chins

How do you guys deal with the fact that you have nothing to say?

>>24809156
You might not have used them but they're still part of your lexicon, no?

>>24809214
I just repeat the n word over and over again

>>24809156
The LLM isn't trained solely on your writing. Those words were probably in the training data.

How do I write more mundane "character/world building" scenes? I can do the grand ones, but not ones that just are like a picnic scene in between the adventure.

>>24809298
Don't

>>24809298
I just make the MC start one of his schizo monologues while the others go "oh Victoria, could you pass me the butter, please?"

>>24809302
? So you just have nothing but plot progression from page 1?

>>24809309
Yes, otherwise the editor will tell you to cut it.

>>24809214
speak for yourself, freindo

>>24809305
>Bringing butter to a picnic
People do this?

>>24809298
Have Victoria scratch her crotch during a formal dinner.
>Father spoke highly of Prince Frederick, but Victoria could scarcely hear his words. A more pressing concern occupied her mind---her wool undergarments. She wiggled and scuttled her rear on the upholstered seat in futile hopes she'll find relief from her prickly panties irritating and tickling her crotch. It was no use. No matter how much she shifted and squeezed, the itch remained. Red in face and sweating profusely, she had no choice. With her father's eyes fixated on her, she spread her legs wide, took her hand and shoved it deep between her legs and scratched. Immediate relief flooded her being.

>>24809362
impeccably based

>>24809362
How is this world building?

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>>24804211
What would make 6 different and noble women desire to all stay married to one man?

>>24809399
Wealth, power, religion, and otherwise very poor living conditions.

>>24809298
>>24809309
If a picnic scene is just a picnic scene you're doing it wrong.

>>24809298
I don't have that problem.

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>>24808383
But the ultimate twist, after pushing the reader to think he's the killer, a the last act switches to 3rd person following the police investigation...

And they also come to the conclusion that he's the killer, and are frustrated at his denials to the point of screaming at him and hitting him. He had extensive notes on all his coworkers, on everyone he interacted with. On prostitutes he's gone to, on people who work at the stores around him so he knows which ones to avoid because they started to remember him.

Eventually they bring in an actual criminal psychologist who isn't freaked out by this guy's bizarre behaviour. And starts working backwards with the evidence to workout. and in the twist of the twist, it's... not actually him. He's just autistic

>>24809231
And how would that be relevant? It's not like I'm returning to the LLM to have constant conversations that it would learn about me.
>>24809249
Obviously. I'm remarking that the LLM took things in a direction I did not think of and found surprising.
But perhaps I shouldn't be since all the fan fiction and smut is in their training data.

>>24809399
Imagine if you were given the choice to become the 5th husband of some billionaire woman. You'd be set for life. Never have to work a single day for the rest of your life. Hell, you don't even have to do much with the woman, because she's sharing her attention with 4 other guys. Once a week you have dinner with her, maybe fuck her and that's that.

>>24809648
It's a bit different for dudes cause a woman can only get pregnant by 1 guy at a time (except rare cases like half twins).

But even without kids there's some dudes who'd take that deal. Hell there was an unemployed Chinese 20 year old who married a 47 year old African woman whose dad owned a diamond mine

>>24809483
Kek I'd read it. Sounds like a fun jaunt. Sounds like yours is going to be more humorous. Mine's more dark and tragic in an "everyone's going to be dead by the end of this" kind of way.

>>24809214
Traditionally, writers were people who led interesting lives, then returned from their adventures to write about it. My guess is that you never go outside & never interact with other people. So why would you have anything interesting to say? Not trying to diss you, but just because you have the time to write doesn't mean you can make anything worth reading.

Are filter words even a real thing? I got recommended quite a few youtube videos about how you shouldn't use "he saw", "they heard", etc.
Pretty weird concept. So I tried to find a real book that teaches this. And found nothing.

Is it just social media nonsense?

>tons of books are written with reddit spacing
Why? It looks funny in print.

>>24809961
Had to look that up. But from what I saw, I would avoid them. They sound completely unnecessary for the most part. No need to remind the reader who's hearing/seeing/smelling the scene. If the sentence can stand on its own without it, take it out. Id only keep it if it isn't a full sentence without the filter word and even then you'd probably be better off rewording the sentence anyway.

another rejection. my inbox is starting to look a lot like my love life.

I wrote a short story about a shapeshifter, but it has 5 chapters of setup to the eventual murders and shapeshifting. Im starting to think its too much. what do you guys think?

>>24809948
Who were those writers who led interesting lives?

>>24808836
Why is that? Is the LLM going to steal my genius and totally original idea and make a better story in not even half the time it took me to write 100k words?

>>24808878
how is being told to read (for writing) even related to whether or not you should (also) write? do you always need some counter balance to your advice, retard? fucking read

sorry, i took the bait

My novel is nearing completion with only a few chapters left before hitting the editing phase.

What’s the best avenue to take with regards to publishers? Should I reach out to agents? How do I make a query that stands out from the pile?

>>24810192
>How do I make a query that stands out from the pile?
insult them that'll stand out
seriously thouh, nothing will. Everyone is out there trying something different.

>>24810049
Most of them, back in the day. Ian Fleming, Mark Twain, Jack London, Oscar Wilde, and Ernest Hemingway come to mind immediately.
https://www.google.com/search?q=writers+that+led+interesting+lives

>>24810192
>How do I make a query that stands out from the pile?
Become a black, transgendered, Somalian immigrant with a gay husband and a lesbian wife.

Are people still assblated by religion and Christianity in books?

>>24810556
people are perfectly fine w/ it when done well; so, nothing you write.

>>24810561
So people will hate it if Victoria becomes a saint?

Is isekai still popular what should I write to become famous on Royal Road? I’m trans BTW

>>24810634
Trans person kills themself and is reincarnated as a normal person and learns the value of not being a freakazoid. A tour de force that elevates isekai to its rightful place as one the classical literary genres.

>>24807746
it's funny that all the artists who cover this subject so obsessively in their relatable instagram comics can't draw for shit
not a single one of them

If even one person had ever given me a chance, I could of become a celebtated author.

>>24809399
>What would make 6 different and noble women desire to all stay married to one man?
he fucked and dumped a witch who got angry and cursed him with a legendary 10" cock brimming with supercum that grants a knockup and a male heir with every fuck. he literally cannot fuck a woman without it resulting in a healthy male heir who's also cursed with the same superpotent cock. call it "Army of Sons"

>>24810669
*celebrated

Why do people not leave feedback even in they read your whole slop?

They don't give feedback for the same reason they don't reply to you after reading your whole dull post

>>24810697
because 4chan is just a content farm where discord trannies take epic screencaps

>>24810634
Gender bending is hardly a novelty.
I give the same advice to everyone. Add illustrations. Make it a game, like a VN. Make animations. Make videos.

>>24810697
Feedback is hard. It takes a lot of time, and it isn't always appreciated.

>>24810852
>crtl + f + Victoria
>9 results
kys

>>24810669
>could of
>celebtated
I think I see the problem here.

>>24810697
You don't listen to good advice. If you did, you wouldn't be writing slop.

>>24807746
This seems very on point until you read about ADHD and the causes for it. After you do that you realize that "discipline" and "motivation" are a talent as height and intelligence.

>>24810852
I want her to get jeet

>>24811181
She is such a slut I would not put it by her.

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trying a new prose style. what do you think? i appreciate feedback at every level of specificity. and yes, this is literally how i spent last weekend.

>>24811626
The formatting is so bad. Why so much reddit spacing? Why is the dialogue in the same paragraph while head hopping at the same time?

That said, your prose is just modern zoomer style writing with short choppy sentences, lots of telling, and using "fuck" every three sentences trying to sound realistic. It's honestly really boring.

And seriously? Pulp fiction reference? It's now a cliche.

>>24811697
i guess by telling you mean "not showing?" idk about the spacing, just like for the text to breathe. hate the way text loos on screens. is there a style guide for stuff? i'm actually a kino guy, and found the idiocy of th reflection really funny, but i'd probably cringe if i saw it from the outside. i almost wanna make him say h isn't some Tarntino guy, but.... anyway. i think everyone swore more irl. i wasn't so very present, so to speak, but i always find it kinda stressful when your friends are about to die

>>24811726
you also have too much head hopping

>>24811729
>"fuck," the guy says. Doug's in his arms, eyes closed, looking heavy. "Fucking shit." he slaps doug's cheeks while I stand still, observing the neatness of the white tiling. "What's his name?"
We start with the POV of The Guy, yet it switches to the MC then back to Guy. then back to the MC, then back to Guy. It reads terribly.

>>24811729
i thought the story was contained to the first person narrator, slipping into past tense at the end (and beginning, and while describing Doug as a roommate). seems kinda clear to me. could you describe where you see it? but somethings totally out of control about how i move between scenes/modes of describing, so kinda know what you mean. i wanna resolve that, too

>>24811626
>>24811726
Do you seriously not know how to indent paragraphs? What do they teach you in school?

>>24811756
do you suspect i'm lying? just trying my best over here

>>24807111
>George Rest and Relaxation Martin

>>24811772
Open a novel and see how a professional formats dialogue, paragraphs, and flow

>>24811626
>sentence is a paragraph
Nope'd. People seem to think this makes them seem more intelligent and eloquent. It doesn't.

>>24811861
literally only opener. actually tryna sound coked-up and idiotic

we're so fucking back boys wrote 1000 words today

>>24811626
Formatting issues aside, I thought it was fine in terms of style. Personally, though, I am not interested in reading about people taking coke whether they overdose or not. To me this is just at best cliche and at worst pastiche.

I have coke scenes in my novel too but it's just something done in passing. It's not something to make a big deal out of. But that is my opinion. You can safely discard it when writing your masterpiece.

>>24811726
why is your post so full of errors?
>dude i just dont care...
okay maybe writing isn't for you if you can't post without a billion mistakes. Maybe get your proof reading reps in idk

>>24812045
Do you not understand my post, anon? There was light rain fucking with my screen, but I figured it was readable enough. You would come across as less retarded if you looked at the story I posted, instead.
>>24811949
glad you find it ok. i'm writing anecdotes as fiction to practice style. wouldn't ever wanna put my name to this shameful bs 2bh
>>24811837
good thinking

>>24812089
You're kinda being a fag

>>24812089
>light rain
Are you homeless?

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>>24812089
>if you looked at the story I posted
I did. It was fucking ass. I had mixed feelings but I don't like being discouraging so I withheld because you didn't seem open to criticism
>dude it's meant to be retarded and shit because uh it's first person of a retarded guy
>We abide; stand around the pissoir, breathing the passage of beer, watching Max cut sloppy lines across his screen. He does his and Doug does his and I do mine and it felt fantastic, sharing lines with Doug.
garbage. But others put it better. I mean, I guess it sounds realistic because morons do narrate their thoughts like this but doesn't mean it's good. It's shit, but it's shit on purpose and yet it's the prose you want critique on? The substance is even worse (which is meant to make up for your realistic style)

Narrative styles like this are such hacky nonsense—so cheap.
>"Fuck," The guy says.
Wow it's like you've transported me to Berlin. This could be the next trainspotting I'm sure!

"Any druggie retard could write this," was my first thought.

>>24811626
This is worse than the Victoria story.

>>24810037
Is the setup interesting and well-paced?

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What matters more, the plot or the prose?

>>24812175
plot. Prose matters very little. If you want to make money you need to learn to write what people want. aka what redditors want.

>A feel good action/adventure fantasy with mild romantic elements, some anime style action scenes, and quips.
Far too many anons on /wg/ want to write for themselves and what they want to read. You're supposed to write what others want to read while maintaining a story that has elements that appeal to you.

>>24811626
I think you need to remember that writing is not film, and film is not writing. That's the best way I could describe how I feel about this. I don't think it's bad, necessarily, it just doesn't read like a book. It reads like someone imagining a movie scene and trying to capture that in writing. The problem is that reading is fundamentally different from watching a movie, so the style, while unique and interesting, is also jarring and somewhat unpleasant. You have talent, you're just not using it in the right places. Too much style is overwhelming the substance.

>>24812175
If you want to be popular and commercially successful, plot is what matters. Prose is almost totally irrelevant in professional writing. In literary writing, however, having artful prose is more important than telling a coherent or entertaining story. In fact, critics seem to praise you even more if your prose makes the story harder to understand.

>>24810037
I have no idea how long a "chapter" is supposed to be. Are these chapters 500 words or 10,000 words long? How long is whole story relative to what you've already written?

>>24810192
It depends on the publisher. They each have their own requirements. Check their website and see how they accept submissions. A lot of major publishers only accept submissions through a literary agent. Some accept direct submissions, and even have a web portal for you to submit directly to them.

Very important: Follow the submission guidelines posted on the publisher's website EXACTLY. If you screw it up in any way, they will not even look at your submission usually.

Do you have a cover letter drafted already? Literary agents and publishers usually both require cover letters.

>>24811626
I format my writing like this when I'm drafting in a text editor like Notepad or Geany.
>don't indent because the editor indents every line of the entire paragraph when you do

....So you end up writing
....a paragraph that looks
....a lot like this.

>reddit space because without indenting, it looks like an unreadable wall
I use straight quotes instead of curly quotes and -- instead of the em dash, because notepad doesn't have autocorrect. I don't ever use italics (although I guess you can write like *this* but it looks gay imo). And vim doesn't work with .doc files.

>>24809399
They would all have to be ambitious women who want the best life for themselves, and he would have to be a supremely powerful despotic ruler, the kind who has no rivals in wealth or military might, who easily crushes any upstart in his realm. When that much power is concentrated into a single man, ambitious women have no alternative but to pursue him if they want to claim the highest status for themselves. Even if it means having to share him with other women, it still affords them more wealth, power, and prestige than being married to a lesser man.

The wider the gap between the supreme despot and his closest rivals, the bigger his harem.

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I think passive voice is acceptable sometimes, particularly when describing settings or inanimate objects.

For example:
>The barn was red.
This is fine because there was no action going on here anyway.

But:
>Ben was hit in the head with a hammer by amy.
Is several times worse than
>Amy hit ben in the head with a hammer.

>>24812220
Write your prose in Markdown format, then use pandoc to convert it to a formatted Word/LibreOffice document.

I think orating your writing into a recorder is a good way to ensure it is readable and pleasant.

How should I know when to dialogue

>>24812345
when two or more people meet, they'll usually start talking to each other

I'm having a Schizo melt down in my head right now bros.
I just... hate modern prose so fucking much

>>24812175
Good prose can carry a terrible story, but a good story can't even be discovered with unreadable prose.

>>24812345
Sally walked up to Joe.
"Hey," she said, with a smirk.

>>24812175
>genre fiction
plot
>literary fiction
everything else but the plot

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Anyone else hate it when an author doesn't just write "said" after some dialogue.

>>24812580
>Good prose can carry a terrible story,
hard disagree
no matter how good one's prose is if the story is shit its going to be shit

>>24812698
and yet people are going to read it, and THEN complain that the story was stupid or went nowhere. meanwhile if you can't write well enough to get people to turn pages they will give up before the story even meaningfully starts. it's a much earlier point of failure.

>>24812724
When people realize the story sucks theyre going to stop reading.
I could easily make the unverifiable claim that people will read bad prose if the story is interesting enough

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>>24812617

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>>24504407
Sea lions have ears, real seals do not have ears except for fur seals which are a weird fringe case.
Sea lions also have articulted fore-flippers that let them "stand up" on their forelegs, regular seals can only flop.

I know it's been 4 months but I felt compelled to answer.

>>24812737
>When people realize the story sucks theyre going to stop reading.
no they won't lol, because the reader doesn't "see" the story from a bird's-eye view, he's just turning pages to see what happens next, and as long as these "local" hooks are connecting they keep going. people read volume after volume of meandering fantasy sagas and webnovels that go nowhere and make no sense. people watched the tv show "lost" for six years despite it being obvious from like season 2 that the overarching story is random bullshit. this week's episode ended on an intriguingly cryptic line of dialogue, so they want to see the next one. they won't know it was all nonsense until a youtuber tells them.

>people will read bad prose if the story is interesting enough
they literally will not be able to tell what the story is if the prose is legitimately bad. you don't seem to realize what "bad prose" actually is, you're thinking of it on the scale of "serviceable" to "great." people without a good enough command of the written word can't express themselves clearly, can't convey emotion, can't convey character. if you are capable of reaching chapter 2 with a clear idea of who the people are, what's happening to them and why it's compelling then the prose is at least mediocre. "prose" is not optional ornamentation, it's the medium through which everything is communicated.

>>24812826
>no they won't lol, because the reader doesn't "see" the story from a bird's-eye view, he's just turning pages to see what happens next,
idk what kind of readers you attract but clearly theyre children aged 3-8
I do agree with you that the general reader is retarded, but for a non retard bad prose is not going to save anything.
if your goal is mass appeal I suppose you could get carried by your prose, but you have to go through the retarded filter of publishers too.

the second part of your post is talking about extremely bad prose, I was talking about just bad prose or okay prose.

>>24812836
>idk what kind of readers you attract but clearly theyre children aged 3-8
no, it's literally all readers. all readers experience reading page by page, sentence by sentence, because that's what reading is. it's the smug youtube retard pontificating about muh character arcs that looks at the process from an abstract, unnatural perspective.

>I was talking about just bad prose or okay prose.
if "extremely" bad prose is incomprehensible then "just" bad prose is "just" inexpressive. also a death sentence. if you can't string words into a sequence that conveys eg a thrill, then your thriller isn't thrilling, and the reader doesn't turn the page. you've lost. your very important story beats are still chapters away and nobody will see them. objectively an earlier point of failure.

>>24812904
>all readers experience reading page by page, sentence by sentence, because that's what reading is
I do that and look at the overarching thing at the same time. I assume more people do.

A lot of /wg/ gets stuck too much on prose. A good story is more important. I you have nothing to tell itll suck anyway

People also over-do their prose. It becomes painful to read. Just say what needs to be said sometimes.

>>24812913
>I do that and look at the overarching thing at the same time. I assume more people do.
of course, because they're neurotics that roleplay being a youtube critic in their heads while they read, imagining the cinemasins "ding" going off as they detect a plothole etcetera, but first of all: that's a marginal internet autist phenomenon, and second of all, even if it wasn't, the only books that are going to get this treatment in the first place are the ones written skillfully enough to establish basic investment. you're doing the plane bullet holes meme here. the poorly written books didn't come back from the mission at all.

>People also over-do their prose. It becomes painful to read. Just say what needs to be said sometimes.
see: it's like i said. you literally don't know what "prose" means. you think it's synonymous with "ornamentation." the above statement is 100% an argument FOR prose being the most important, but you present it as if it was an argument against it, because you think it's "prose" when you describe pretty flowers in the garden for three pages, but "not prose" when you write "he fired his gun." those are both prose. the ability to choose the appropriate level of detail is part of the skill of prose.

>>24812969
>see: it's like i said. yo
we both know how prose is interpreted in here.
Youre being disingenuous.

Also theres no survivorship bias, like I said, I do it with everything I read. but I think weve both made our points.

>>24812973
>we both know how prose is interpreted in here
don't blame others for being a retard.

>theres no survivorship bias, like I said, I do it with everything I read
the books you read come with the bias already applied because the ones with below-serviceable prose have been so unsuccessful you're not even aware of their existence.

>>24812175
If you can't do one well you very probably can't do the other well and are just deluding yourself if you think otherwise

>>24812580
Someone's never heard of screenplays

>>24811885
Burn out incoming

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>>24812380
>>24812604
Very uneducated responses.
>>24812345
You should first decide the style. And you can often paraphrase in narration for more mundane exchanges. Not every greeting needs to be
>"Hello," said character
>"Hey," character said back.
etc.
It can easily be
>They exchanged casual greetings.
These are just unfluffed plain examples. You can often insert more direct meaning in the latter. But sometimes you don't want to be direct, so the former can offer more ambiguity in meaning, however the latter can offer ambiguity in its own way by disguising verbatim. Writing every line of an exchange no matter how trivial would be exhausting and tedious to read and is what you'd find in crappy stuff like romance novels.

Take a look at any good novel and see how infrequently they do constant back and forth exchanges. Writers are always looking for ways to evade repetition. But that isn't to say back and forth exchanges are inherently bad or should be avoided entirely. You need to recognise when what EXACTLY a character is saying is relevant and exciting.

>>24812913
lol no prose is like poetry and a poet can make shit smell sweet if you’re just telling a story you’ll fail to achieve the lyricism needed for it to matter.

>>24813056
Best selling novels today use primarily dialogue and dramatic action. The reliance on narrative hasnt been in vogue since the 1940’s, old geezer

New
>>24813382
>>24813382
>>24813382
>>24813382

>>24813056
then you just don't write them greeting each other
>You need to recognise when what EXACTLY a character is saying is relevant and exciting.
how helpful