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>>24835263
>Can you link me a popular and successful web novel with objectively unintended bad prose?
>Read >>24835719 's example
>It's actually better written than my slop
OH N-

Three writers I know within the space, whom I've considered peers, have just stopped writing entirely. They disappeared, no word in months. And it's not like they were mildly unsuccessful too. A 100k views is a win my book, so is 200 and 900 followers. I guess life catches up and burnout hits harder then a bitch.

So many of you, here, are getting ready to go balls into writing pure slop. I sincerely hope you know what you're getting into. This isn't an easy job.

Before anybody has another melty about prose, here’s a copypasta from the last thread:

1. Outline: Write what happens in the scene in plain language.
It should only be a paragraph long. All a scene needs is a character at a certain location with a specific goal in mind. He takes actions to accomplish his goal but is faced with resistance. And regardless of whether he succeeds or fails, he must face an unforeseen disaster or consequence that propels him into the next scene.
For example, the scene can be about an adventurer navigating through a cave to reach a treasure chest, while fighting the twenty goblins that block his way. He defeats the goblins by exhausting his mana and health potions and manages to reach the chest. But the moment he opens it, it reveals itself to be a mimic and attacks him. The following scene can be either the adventurer trying to defeat the mimic or running away from it.

2. Break down all the steps the character takes to navigate the scene.
The adventurer walked through a cave. He came across a dead end. He spotted a narrow opening with wind coming through. He squeezed himself into the opening and crawled forward. The opening widened, and he found himself in a pitch-black hall. He saw strange yellow eyes glowing in the darkness. He quickly cast a fireball spell. The light revealed twenty salivating goblins blocking his way, and the faint outline of a chest behind them…

3. Put your reader into the MC’s head by applying the modern MRUs:
Stimuli: What the MC sees, hears, smells, tastes, and touches.
- Dozens of yellow eyes glowed in the darkness, and a rotten, animalistic scent assaulted his nose.
Feeling: His emotions or initial reactions toward it.
- Jason’s stomach dropped.
Thought: Show his thought process. This is where you can go full anime and dump your exposition and backstory.
- He knew today had been too easy. Since entering the cave, he’d only come across two slimes and a few harmless cave spiders. He supposed it was high time the true occupants of this cave revealed themselves to him. If only he could see what they were.
Action/Speech: What he does after thinking things through.
- Quickly, Jason summoned a fireball spell and raised his arm high. (New stimuli) The orange light revealed dozens of green humanoid creatures and a carpet of human bones beneath their feet. Goblins!
You don’t need to go through all these steps for each action beat. Only write what’s necessary.

4. Work on improving the prose. Good prose is subjective, and you have a limited amount of time to refine one scene before needing to move on to the next. When in doubt, focus on clarity over trying to sound poetic.

Once you go through all of these, you should end up with a scene that is at least a thousand words long. So realistically, you only need one to three scenes per chapter, plus some summary or time lapse to string the scenes together.

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I legit dont understand what separates good webnovel from bad ones. Every single story I read on RoyalRoad is either generic fantasy (le hero and le quirky ragtag party of Tolkien-inspired intelligent creatures that travel le medieval european land fighting le monsters to ultimately defeat le evil demon king, or simply to LEVEL UP HAHA XD), le OP/absolutely invulnerable and invincible MC, or some deliberately absurd & quirkish alternative like the boulder that crushes everybody, bodega cat, rubber duck...

It's all pretty much the same over and over again. The writing is more often than not juvenile, simplistic, pointless, brainless, utterly obviously written by a teenager or manchild, plenty of chapters are merely stat dumps... should I go on?

How oh how do slop so shallow and uninteresting get traction, let alone people who finance it so it reaches the 1000 chapter and beyond? Is the audience for webnovels really this braindead? Reading and writing are supposed to be cultured people hobbies, or even more than hobbies, a passion. Is webnovel format supposed to be the equivalent of Funko Pops and Marvel movies by default? It seems that way. I'm yet to read the Hemingway, Melville, McCarthy, or even the *sigh* Salinger of webnovels. Am I wasting my time expecting anything more IQ-required than a Marvel movie whenever I give one of these webnoobels a chance?

>>24835785
novel i like = good

>>24835785
my upcoming web novel will be the Art of the Deal of web novels

>>24835785
highly recommend Reverend Insanity
if nothing else, it's the enfant terrible of web fiction

>>24835785
Read less

>>24835785
you sound like a girl who is interested in reading about "feelings"

>>24835806
girls dont read McCarthy, and if they do they do it wrong, or pussy out from Blood Meridian before reading anything else by him

>>24835812
>Blood Meridian retard
figures

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What is your favorite RI arc?

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>>24835785

>>24835756
It's even better because that author has the excuse of being ESL

>>24835833
God bless the gooks

>>24835288
Personally I just don't see how every "I'm asserting my free will!!" character ends up devolving into an amoral asshole, why can someone not simply choose to be altruistic out of a genuine love for others?

>>24835769
>So many of you, here, are getting ready to go balls into writing pure slop. I sincerely hope you know what you're getting into. This isn't an easy job.
It's objectively pretty easy to churn out 3k words of trash a day. Takes way less time than a real job too.
Really the only barrier here is shame

>>24835884
You don't see why pursuing a goal with no compromises would require discarding morality? What do you think happens if you have to choose between doing "the right thing" and accomplishing your goal?

It's not like your goal can't be altruism or whatever. Paradise Earth Immortal Venerable is a character.

>>24835896
>It's objectively pretty easy to churn out 3k words of trash a day.
Says he in a thread where people struggle to write 100 words in 6 hours

>>24835907
No I understand that point, there would naturally come a crossroads where you would need to choose between doing what is considered moral or ignoring it, especially for something like pursuing immortality. Bearing in mind I haven't read RI, what I'm saying is that I don't see how someone can see only those that consider the latter option to be exerting their free will, when conscious recognition of the value of what you call shackles or social constructs and deciding to honor them is also exerting free will

>>24835896
>I can totally do it bro
>but I don't because ummm well I'm just too intelligent

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>>24835933
>what I'm saying is that I don't see how someone can see only those that consider the latter option to be exerting their free will, when conscious recognition of the value of what you call shackles or social constructs and deciding to honor them is also exerting free will
RI doesn't say this at all. What is denying yourself free will is ignorance. Knowing the true nature of these ephemeral aspects of life and choosing to uphold them anyways is a choice. Merely submitting to them because of others is not.

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>>24834372

>>24835984
>eunuch wang
heh
wang

>>24835986
More like wang less amirite!

>>24835954
Speaking of RI, what are the top 3 worst things he did? I read that he was a supreme douchebag and did some Eric Cartman shit before the author gave up

>>24836025
not ranking them, but these come to mind:
the bear scene
burning the twins
doing whatever he did to refine SAC
creating slavery sweatshops
eating the brains of living monkeys
constantly feeding souls to Dang Hun mountain to refine guts gu
Experimenting on "his" son while disguised as the Wolf King in order to perfect the zombie transformation
manipulating and using Old Bai[
killing 100 million+ people for the human sea
killing almost everyone in central continent

>>24835943
buddy I write more than that for erp

>>24835896
>It's objectively pretty easy to churn out 3k words of trash a day. Takes way less time than a real job too.
honestly I don't disagree,
>Really the only barrier here is shame
but you are massively underestimating the genre savviness required to know how to write slop fellow piggies want to slurp down. it's its own skill. even a fairly good pro author in some other genre wouldn't be able to find much success if they didn't read tons of slop first to find out what the appeal is.

it'd be easier than a regular job even if you didn't enjoy slop at all, but it's not something someone can force a career of on a whim.

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How the fuck do I write a story?
I can plan a world, characters, and what I'd like them to do, I can write individual sentences or small scenes, but the second I actually start trying to link things together it turns into the most irredeemable dogshit sub-rr tier refuse. I just can't do it.

What can I read/study to improve? Just vomiting words onto the page doesn't seem to make my writing better.

>>24836083
>characters... like them to do
think about how they change, how the lies they tell themselves change, how the things they want change
the story facilitates these changes

>>24836083
See >>24835776

>>24836083
>Just vomiting words onto the page doesn't seem to make my writing better.
how much of this have you actually done, though?
you get better at writing by writing, then revising. it's very difficult at first but you do slowly improve
your first three books will be irredeemable. so if you haven't even done that yet, you're giving up way too fast

>>24836083
Read more and study those who have already reached the goals you want to achieve. Be intentional with what you do. Or, you could just read a lot widely and hope osmosis works. Remember, garbage in, garbage out. Take that as you will.

>>24835776
How To Write Slop Suited For The Most Slop Hungry Pigs: A Guide

This is praise.

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slopbros... it's over

>>24835776
MRUs are a cheat code for writing that's fun for the reader but most midwits think they're above it

>>24835884
>why can someone not simply choose to be altruistic out of a genuine love for others?
It would be like not caring about oneself and sacrificing for others. It's basically a suicidal mentality. It's possible but very improbable.
But who would to read a novel with such a character? Only other suicidal people (but do such people even read?)

>>24836190
You're jumping from one extreme to another again. It's entirely possible to care and help others and not neglect yourself at the same time. It should be easy for these overpowered gary stu wn heroes too.

>>24836190
Fang Yuan folded his arms as he observed Gu Yue Yao Le’s expression, thinking of a Buddhist saying on earth:
‘Without a sense of self, without a sense of person; to be detached of all living things, detached of the sense of time. Void is the red skull and white bones, skin and flesh!’

...

This Buddhist term is calling for humans to break through all forms, seeing the truth.

Beauty is superficial, and people, me, the world, and time, is all superficial. If one goes past the superficial aspect, they would see Buddha.

Recognising and going beyond, treating all as equal, all is equal.

Thus, Buddha sacrificed his body to feed tigers, cutting off his flesh to feed eagles. This was the benevolence in his heart, seeing all in this world as his own, loving everything, and his great love for everything.

No matter if its me, others, animals or plants, or even the lifeless rocks and water, even those that do not exist, we have to love them.

If a mortal standing there watches the bear eat a person, some hot-blooded teenager would jump out and scream, "You beast, don't you dare eat a person!" or "Beauty, do not fear, uncle is here to save you!" etc.

This was the mortals love and hatred, loving young girls and hating large bears. Not going beyond and still fixating on the superficial, not able to see her red human skeleton.

If Buddha stood there and watched the bear eat a person, he would sigh, chanting, "If I do not enter hell, who would enter?" He would save the young girl and feed himself to the black bear.

This was Buddhas love and hatred, loving the young girl and loving the bear, treating all as equal.

>>24836212
But right now, Fang Yuan was the one standing here.

Seeing the young girls tragic and violent death, his heart was unmoved.

This was not because of his numbness to death, but he had gone beyond the superficial, having no obsessions. Without a sense of self, without a sense of person; to be detached of all living things, detached of the sense of time

Seeing all living things as equal, the world is equal.

Thus, the girls death is no different from a fox or a trees death.

But to a mere mortal, the girls death would trigger their anger, hatred, and pity. If it was the girl eating the bear, they would not feel anything. If an old lady was eaten, the pity in their hearts would be greatly reduced. If it was a villain, a murderer getting eaten, they would clap their hands in joy, praising.

In actuality, all beings are equal, and heaven and earth is just.

Nature is fair, disregarding love or hate; it is emotionless, and never gives differential treatment.

Rule of the strong, victor takes all!

The disappearance of a lifeform, towards the entire natural realm and the infinite cosmos, to the long river of history what does it amount to?

Death means death, who can choose not to die? What talk about a girl, bear, ant, fox, tree, old lady, murderer, they are all lowly! Humble! Mongrels!

Only by recognizing this and going beyond the superficial, arriving at the truth, does one gain divinity.

This divinity, taking a step towards the light, it becomes Buddha. If it takes a step towards the darkness, it becomes a demon.

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>>24836190
>But who would to read a novel with such a character
Bunch of people read a visual novel with one

>>24836195
That's not really a true altruism.

>>24836219
Such people are irrelevant in every possible way, they are totally worthless.

>>24836226
>Altruism doesn't exist and everyone is evil forever
>Yes it does, here are some examples
>No that doesn't count!
Every time with you disingenuous nihilists

>>24836235
true altruism isn't real

>>24836235
Those people are not true altruists, they are only selfless towards others until a certain point. They help others but they also get satisfaction from it and when a certain point is reached when there is no more satisfaction gained then their help and care for others stop.

>>24836253
Again, this is just a strawman you've constructed to affirm your belief that everyone is evil forever so you may as well abuse them

Okay it's pretty funny finding out that the argument poster has the brain of a 13 year old chunni

Altruism does not mean mere kindness or generosity, but the sacrifice of the best among men to the worst, the sacrifice of virtues to flaws, of ability to incompetence, of progress to stagnation-and the subordinating of all life and of all values to the claims of anyone's suffering. - Ayn Rand

Capitalism and altruism are incompatible; they are philosophical opposites; they cannot co-exist in the same man or in the same society. - Ayn Rand

>>24836287
>Woman
Opinion discarded.

>>24836262
This was response to 'why can someone not simply choose to be altruistic out of a genuine love for others?'
Regarding 'everyone is evil forever and abuse of people', everyone is to a degree bad and good, very few extremes are either good or bad, and I don't know what you mean by abuse of others? Maybe because most people are mix of both good and bad there is almost a 100% chance that they have abused another person or another living being, if that's the case if they abuse others then they are not above being abused themselves.

>>24836083
What is your story about?
What is the subtext of your story, your scene?
What are the motivations of your protagonist?
Who or what stands against him?
Where does the protagonist start, and where will he end?

Think of storytelling as drawing a line between the starting point and the ending point. It can be a straight line, or it can loop around other points in that space, but it must always connect to the end point.

>>24836283
>the argument poster
im not sure you can really assign this kind of label to an anon when basically everyone on 4chan is argumentative by nature. you aren't implying he's responsible for most arguments, surely? that would be samefag schizoing at a thus-unprecedented level
also I'm not even sure which of them you're referring to. I'm assuming the edgy 'everyone is evil' guy but honestly it can be interpreted either way, chuuni is just dramatic and it can apply to overly hopeful views or overly pessimistic ones

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Altruism cannot exist any more than a perfect triangle or perfect circle. It's an idea, a form, not a real thing. You can get pretty close, but that's all.

Life is the product of the inherently selfish drive towards self preservation. Things that preserve themselves continue to exist. The better they preserve themselves, the more of them continue to exist in the future. Through this process of natural selection, the most optimal traits for self preservation persist, and the least optimal traits are discarded.

But natural selection is a game, played with and against others. It's not a game played by plants, animals, or humans. It's a game played by the genes they carry.
Partially self sacrificing behaviors can be net positive on a genetic level. Some measure of selfless behavior can increase your 'win rate', but going too far leaves you vulnerable to more antisocial strategies.

With this in mind, it is impossible to be totally self sacrificing. Such behavior is instantly exploited and weeded out of the gene pool.
In order to survive you have to maintain a balance. Hence fairness, rules, morality, and all the rest.

>It's another argument about semantics and definitions that goes nowhere because no side wants to acknowledge that any other meaning exists, let alone that it's valid.

>>24836339
>accept my stupid ass headcanon definition based on nothing!!!!!
no

>>24836319
Jesus was an altruist.
Checkmate, atheist.

Gonna design an altruism power system

>>24836319
At least you could admit that you have copypasted Richard Dawkins' ideas instead of pretending that this is original.

>>24836253
>They help others but they also get satisfaction from it and when a certain point is reached when there is no more satisfaction gained then their help and care for others stop.

They help others as long as it's sustainable and stop when it's not, because when it's no longer sustainable, nobody gets help anymore. It's not altruism if it does more harm than it does good.

>>24836319
Modern civilization made natural selection irrelevant. The help of the collective enables even those with no personal means of survival to live and pass on their genes.

>>24836407
That's not altruism

un

>Altruism - selfless concern for the well-being of others, without care for one's own interests; unselfishness.

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>>24836319
I'm altruistic because it makes people lower their guard around me.

>>24836393
Dawkins didn't come up with the idea, nor has it stayed untouched the since The Selfish Gene released.

I hate when I start reading a fanfic (on ff.net) then I have to go check its tags on AO3 and see it turns to shit.

I'm reading a WoT fanfic atm on RR and honestly so far it's better than what Sanderson wrote.

>>24836319
I, too, was diagnosed with altruism.

>first few arcs are cool
>falls off a fucking cliff after that
don't let this be you

>>24836486
Don't worry it's not uncurable, you'll get better.

>>24836491
Too late, it already went downhill after chapter 1

>>24836479
Link?

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>>24835785
>only reads the most popular generic slop fiction
>refuses to look for unique stories in non-meta genres
>but why can't i find any good stories???

>>24835785
>le hero and le quirky ragtag party of Tolkien-inspired intelligent creatures that travel le medieval european land fighting le monsters
I read a lot of WNs and I don't think I've ever read one that does this

>>24836530
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/115946/a-new-player-in-the-game-wheel-of-time-fan-fiction

>>24836083
Don't listen to any of this advice people are giving you because it's all irrelevant. I will give you the actual secret to writing well.

Write shit. Actual garbage. Tell fucking retarded stories that barely even qualify as stories. Publish that garbage with no fear or any sense of insecurity. As you do this, look at your garbage ass gay contrived plots as a critical reader would, and identify why it is actual human feces you are forcing on unfortunate, unsuspecting audiences.

Then write more, trying to avoid the worst problems of your last crappy loser bullshit slop. Eventually, your stories will improve. They will become mediocre, and then they will be barely okay with some rare moments of something resembling, and then, after many long and pathetic years, they will become good.

>>24836561
Dog shit advice by a certified dog shit manufacturer

>>24836582
Dog shit manufacturers are the only people who become good shit manufacturers.

I refuse to read slop with:
>system
>portals/dungeons
>le tower
>game mechanics
etc.

If you ever find yourself considering including these piles of rancid dogshit in your story, just don't.

>>24836561
This is solid advice.
Retardmaxxing is the way.
Worrying over every aspect of your story doesn't matter if it's not out there. You will need to develop thicker skin if you want to make it in this business, because readers can be absolutely ruthless over the most insignificant things.
So, shelve your magnum opus idea, and write something else.

>>24836613
based retard

>>24836612
my story has none of that but I feel like web novels might not be for you.

>>24836612
we'll manage

>>24836621
>>24836622
Most good webnovels don't have the shit tier "tropes" listed above. The ones that do are markedly worse than the ones that don't. Even the progenitors of these ideas, where they exist in their purest, least tropey forms, often suffer from their inclusion. On the other hand, the most irredeemable piece of shit webnovels out there love using this shit.
Even a hog fat on bottom of the barrel slop should be cognizant enough to notice this.

>You have gained 25 experience points for reading this post. 575 xp to level 2.

>>24836612
>I refuse to read your slop
You promise?

>>24836652
What obscure shit do you consider good?

DCC is doing good
TWI is doing good
HHFWM is doing good

Are timeloop stories on your shitlist too?

>>24836652
Is this the part where you say everything is shit but Reverend Insanity?

>>24836652
>Only 76 MP left before Kai hit zero and it was Game Over. No point looking in his inventory for a potion. Supplements weren't allowed in the Infernal Tower. You came in at baseline and went as far as you could with that. If you wanted to survive, you had to learn to game the system. Min-maxing was the only way.

>That was why no one ever made it much further than the fourth level. Where the mighty Cerberus guarded the World Portal.

>The Portal he needed to save Haruna.

>>24836672
>What obscure shit do you consider good?
I'm not talking about obscure webnovels, I'm talking about the most popular and commercially successful webnovels. Pull up the top rated list on RR or any website. Count how many of the top novels include these things, and how many don't. Now ask yourself how many of the novels that do choose to include system shit are actually better off for it.

>Are timeloop stories on your shitlist too?No, those can be done well. Often times they aren't, but that's a skill issue.

what's the consensus least controversial "good" web novel? Like if you had to pick one that nobody would dislike even if its not personally peak to you, which is it?

It would be DCC i think but thats not actually a serial

Is Pale lights as pozzed as A practical guide to evil?

>>24836708
>Now ask yourself how many of the novels that do choose to include system shit are actually better off for it.
this is where your argument breaks, because you hate this shit and think it means the story is worse off. where most readers would find it worse if those elements were removed
anon discovers how taste works and has a meltie about it. more at 9

>>24836673
Do you have something against Reverend Insanity?

>>24836719
Yes.

>>24836715
apgte is pretty low on the pozzed scale. it has a bi protagonist and stronk female characters but compared to actually pozzed tradpub stuff, its not a focus and doesn't preach at all about it, it just exists
for me its only pozzed if its in your face and lecturey

>>24836714
Mother of Learning is pretty non-controversial, though I thought the second half dragged a bit.

Tolkien should have given Frodo a system. Then lord of the rings would truly be a masterpiece

>>24836726
He did, but you had to read between the lines.

>>24836716
>most readers would find it worse if those elements were removed
And what, exactly, would be missing if you removed systemslop?
What would be gained by adding it?

You're not going to convince anyone that shit is actually chocolate no matter how hard you try.

>>24836714
MoL, I think is what I'd recommend to a friend who wants to get into webnovels. But if I know he's a bit of an edgelord, I'd instead go with Worm.

>>24836734
>You're not going to convince anyone that shit is actually chocolate no matter how hard you try.
not gonna try in the slightest. youre a tard who thinks taste is objective, why would I try to reason with that? if people like numbers and game elements, they like it. trying to create a logical argument for why liking something is wrong and they should actually hate numbers like you do is so funny to me

>>24836741
>people like systemshit [LIE]
>what does it add to the story? er... uhhh........ I dont have to explain!
concession accepted

>>24836734
Are you seriously living in a "what if" world?

>>24836751
>people like systemshit [LIE]
oh, thanks for revealing youre a troll and not just a retard. you almost had me on the hook

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>>24836732
now what

>>24836715
Whites are slaves/savages
blacks/browns are the norm
One protagonist is a turbo-lesb

still a 10/10 story
(PGtE would be 7/10 , with the last 3 books being 10/10)

>>24836751
>story? er... uhhh........ I dont have to explain!
doesn't the wg troll do this really faggy teenager style way of "owning" people too? I think he got bored of his thread again

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ok but actually though, why have a system except to ape other webnovels

>>24836714
DCC is serialized on his Patreon.

what even is a system?

what is the approximate follower count -> $/month conversion?

>>24836771
I know, but it still really doesn't feel like it counts.
Does the final book get developmental edits?

>>24836770
there are dozens of justifications for a system (VR , cyber-interface , god artifact , symbiot , etc , etc)
it's comfy for the reader and you can then take them for the fantasy ride you both want.

>>24836775
1 to 3 % at $10
So 1000 followers = $100-300

Varies a whole lot though.

>>24836776
Matt usualy tells us the retcons when they happen before the chapter. It's usualy 2-3 times per book.

>>24836781
Those are in universe justifications.
I mean why are (you), the author, putting a system into your webnovel

>>24836719
I have something against you.

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reverend insanity.

>>24836785
I'm not a writefag.
As an oldfag reader , I've seen your story idea a thousand times. A System is a new spin that might make me give it a chance.

>>24836773
An excuse to have a game-like magic system in your worldbuilding.

>>24836785
I'd imagine it's because the audience the author is targeting seems to want it. Authors want people to read their work, so they do what gets them reads.

>>24836816
I've seen this sentiment a lot, where people think authors are bending to the audience.
Dudes, most of the big litrpg authors are slop readers themselves. They like it and include it cuz they want it in their story
I think unfortunately, lots of you guys don't belong on royalroad or this thread as a whole, and are compromising your story and thinking it's just what everyone is doing.
Nah. we just like the numbers, bro

>>24836794
>A System is a new spin
Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but not anymore.

>>24836816
>it's because the audience the author is targeting seems to want it
Why do they like it though? I don't get the appeal

>>24836450
"The dumber people think you are, the more hilarious the looks on their faces when you stab them in the throat" - Gandhi

>>24836827
>Maybe 20 or 30 years ago, but not anymore.
What kind of argument is this? It's still newer than a story without a system.

>>24836612
I've been on the fence about some of these, but thanks to you, I am now going to force them all into my work.

>>24836840
don't forgot the isekai and cultivation-lite elements so you can get both of those tags too

>>24836825
I have nothing against numbers or game systems at all. I think it's a cool idea in theory to adapt video game mechanics into fantasy stories. You're probably right that a lot of authors are just writing what they like to read, but I also think there is an obvious incentive to write the things other people like too. For someone looking to sell a product, a clear message about what products audiences are buying is hard to ignore.
>>24836827
Who knows? Why did people like grimdark soap-opera slop like GoT? They just did.

>>24836685
An excellent point in favor of executing all AI cultists.

>>24836612
portals can be fun because they can be short and varied. Any other gamey setting just overpowers the rest of the story

>>24836852
I have never used AI to write a single word for me, and I never will.

>>24836726
>>24836732
He did explicitly receive notifications of experience point gains and stat growth every time he did anything noteworthy, demonstrated any agency, took any constructive action toward a goal, or put forth any effort at all.
I think the Tolkster might have been a secret socialist, desu.

>>24836785
I think it's cool? Wandering Inn sold me on it. I'm basically yoinking it except all classes are bound to class sphere which are embed in people's arm, and make you go insane without proper maintenance(I'm stealing this from Tales of Symphonia btw).

SLOP FOR THE SLOP HOGS
FFF TRASH FOR THE FFF TRASH THRONE

>>24836844
Oh, thanks, those are essential, too. Adding them to the checklist now.

>ooh ahh i dont like anything
riveting

>>24836855
Oh, then I'm sorry. That was mean.
Might want to merge that sentence fragment in the second row with its parent statement, like "... the fourth level, where the mighty Cerberus..." and I strongly urge you to name your character anything else, literally anything else. Kai is a name for AI slop and NPCs, not for protagonists of any sort. I'd also recommend capitalising Fourth Level, but that's just my preference, really. Sort your basic grammar out and name your character something more original and interesting than Kai, like Bob or John, and you'll have a start on something technically readable. Good luck, fellow human!

>>24836890
nigga i just pounded that shit out in the 30 seconds between customers trying to throw in everything the other anon mentioned as a joke. i have zero intention editing a shitpost or turning it into a real story

>>24836827
>Why do they like it though? I don't get the appeal
Number go up. Simple as.
Really good litrpgs make you anticipate certain level-ups, and seeing any number go up is going to give readers a dopamine shot.

What would you guys say are the strong/weak points of The Storm King? Considering reading it next but I haven't seen many opinions on it.

>>24836788
What do you have against me?

>>24836906
does it have a system?

+5 xp
+1 post number

>>24836903
Well, if you don't want to get better, that's okay, too, I guess. Lot's of people just write as a hobby, for fun, like Robert Howard, Ernest Hemingway, and Yukio Mishima, so you're in good company, there. Might want to thicken up that skin a little, though. You post your efforts in a thread where we're trying to give and receive feedback, you're going to catch some criticism, and getting defensive about work you claim means nothing to you isn't a great way to win friends or influence people. But keep trying, I am looking forward to hearing more about Bob's adventures in the Tower, really hoping he can save Harriet or whoever and finally tell her how he feels!

>>24836775
>>24836782
Don't believe this anon. He's just telling you how he believes he it should be, not how it is.

>>24836917
tftc

>>24836907
A hard dick full of goo. Slurp it down, piggy.

>>24836890
Always avoiding sentence fragments as a rule is bad advice for slop fiction. Slop fiction is like eating candy, the reader needs immediate satisfaction at regular intervals. If you're writing an actual novel, okay fine, use proper grammar. When you're writing for cheap thrills, lay the drama on thick and syrupy.

>>24836920
>He's just telling you how he believes he it should be, not how it is.
What? He asked for an approximation of how stories generally convert, so I gave him one.
Are you just being contrarian for no reason or do you have a better-informed approximation to give? Because
>It's not perfect. Oh, I don't have anything better, I'm just pointing out the approximation is an approximation
Is kinda annoying behavior

>>24836775
You basically divide the amount of money you get per month by the number of followers, and that's your followers-to-monthly-dollars conversion rate.

>>24836932
he's not asking for his own cutie, he asked for an approximation

>>24836929
https://www.reddit.com/r/royalroad/s/5cowrFvyxN

>>24836925
Oh, definitely. The sentence fragment in the third line I didn't bother calling out was an effective subversiom of grammar, and I left it alone. But the Mighty Cerberus fragment disjointed the flow of the narrative, had to pause for a second to parse that he meant it to refer back to the previous sentence and not to a continuation of it's own sentence he'd forgotten to write. Definitely don't write this shit like it's for English class, but a clear sentence structure helps get your point across, no matter what excuses you might make for easily avoided mistakes, whether your excuse is that you don't respect your format or your readers, or that you just don't bother making an effort because your real career is cashiering at the dollar store, and writing is just an easy way to pay for that passion.

>>24836944
That list has the most followed stories. The stories followed by tons of people, logically, are higher quality and thus convert people to paid customers at a higher rate
1-3% is more what plebs can expect.

>>24836948
Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you not same anon who always says only the top few percent matter?

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>>24836932
Next you'll be telling us that 2 + 2 = 4

>>24836937
It is an approximation, handsome. He's not going to get the exact same comversion rate every month, but by plugging those numbers into his calculator app and recording the to keep track of the mean value and its fluctuations, he'll be able to learn not only how much his followers are worth to him in a quantifiable financial sense, but also potentially learn what he can do to improve his conversion rate, turning more followers into proper fans.

>>24836953
Two plus two is four. I guess you're psychic, then, but I don't see how that was a dunk on anyone but yourself. Maybe invest in crypto with your superhuman predictive powers and unconventional opinions on arithmetic. You should be really popular in that scene; they love being told two plus two isn't four.

>>24836950
I am, and the top few percent would
1. at least be the top 100/200ish stories, the very highest outliers of top20 is too restrictive
2. is what you look at when determining what is on market and how to succeed, which isn't the topic at hand

The question anon asked was how stories usually convert, not how the top 20 most followed stories convert. So I gave the more reasonable estimate of 1-3% because that's what the midlisters convert at—the people getting like top 7 on rising stars, but aren't site titans like the stories you linked

It's all context, anon, and you never SEE that context which is why I find interacting with you frustrating. You're some statbro who doesn't really understand Royalroad but thinks you do because you crunched some basic numbers and keep contradicting me when, while I certainly don't have some omniscient understanding of Royalroad, I at least have a general understanding because I work in this space professionally and have been in the community for years.

Not even saying my 1-3% number is totally accurate, I just spitballed it for an anon who asked. If you're gonna autismfit at me, at least go run the numbers yourself and then tell me I'm wrong with the data to back it up. Otherwise you're just being uselessly contrarian. You're so exhausting

>>24836539
pretty much every other fantasy story is about a swordsman, an elf, fairy, dwarf, and othet Tolkien-creatures traveling and fighting monsters as infinitum. Frieren is exactly that, for example.

>>24836961
that's a manga not a webnovel

>>24836960
I'm not claiming I know anything. The difference is that I'm not pretending that I do. If you want to say that you've been getting data from tons of patreons who otherwise have their information private, then ok.

Maybe I will sometime, but I don't know that I can be bothered to make a scraper and I don't think I'd be given the updated database. What I'd either do is use the list of 5,000+ Royal Road patreons and update it with a scraper, or try to figure out which currency the database I have has the earnings in, because it isn't USD.

>I only have 5k words done
>There's no reason for me to be working on a book cover
>Keep making them anyway
>The way the ai art cover draws my MC drastically changes how I want to characterize them.
anons were right about ai being a curse. Should've just drawn something in Paint, fuck me

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>>24836946

>>24836977
Dude when I give advice I'm not going to write up a report and give sources on every fucking statement. Anons can listen to me or not. You chiming in with SOURCE???? on every post is not helpful.
And while I won't claim that everything I say is correct, I do have a pretty good idea of most things related to RR, and at least get the ballpark right, otherwise I don't speak.

Would you rather nobody ever responds to any questions in this thread? Because obviously no one is going to take the time to write a report like you seem to want
Fuck you are so obnoxious

I'm an idiot. I have an author email, and author dashboard on multiple sites. I just lost my laptop hard drive. Which mean I lost my "click" access to more than one novel repository as well as email to "verify" exiting accounts. Is there a way out of this double jeopardy, or is this a good time to get a new pen name and re-release on RR, instead of the "other site".
Talking about that, I originally struck a pen name as female. Because reading about industry, I had to "be" a femalewritr to have a chance. Now though, I'm exposed to "no male writers, no female MC, ever!" over time and it might be a pregnant time to come out with a male pen name.
Thoughts on these things are welcome. First, feel free to tell me what an idiot I am, then tell me what you would do in my shoes. I wanna make lemonade with these lemons. Male pen name time? Or how to get my account controls back with email lost as well.

I'm surprised colabs aren't really a thing. Spitballing / brainstorming ideas to get a story rolling is easier with more heads in it, and nowadays most TV shows have tons of writers. And it's not like there would necessarily be clashing styles, especially given how most top authors have workmanlike prose and no style.

>>24836982
Use a lora

>>24836987
You could try contacting the sites in question.
Or try to recover the email somehow. If it's gmail there's steps you can take.
No advice on pen name because I don't care and don't think it actually matters.

>>24836987
>Male pen name time?
I don't think gender really matters in this space? It matters in smut and romance more.
Honestly just go something ambiguous, a normal internet username

>>24837002
Internet username = male

>>24837004
i see people calling pseudonyms female all the time in this thread, for authors I know for a fact are male. so maybe you think that way, but not even the rest of the thread does much less readers as a whole.
usually they assume the author is the gender of the mc, if it's ambiguous

>>24835776
Thanks chatGPT

>>24836982
>>24836982
>anons were right about ai being a curse. Should've just drawn something in Paint, fuck me
anon, I been through this dilemma. Isn't nothing you can do. Use AI, and play with the images and get covers out of them, at least for now. Mae 87 AI pictures? Pickthe bect. Crop to cut fingers and toes that go funny. You *will* get *one* that resonates. I make mine, match what I see in my mind's eye as my MC. When/if that time comes? Some pro artist will talk with you and money will be no object. Until then?
You go to war with the army you have, not the army you wish you had. A little while, you can male AI covers that pass muster. Leonardo AI, is about the all around best free. This link, is how to get titles. Its a learning curve. When you need a break, play with this.
https://diybookcovers.com/
Not saying my AI covers are any good, just saying I got a cover. For now. OP image proves it.
>
I done the "careful collage in the paint program" (I used GIMP, btw)
I seen AI slop covers do justice.
go to war, with the army you have. Cover-anon.

>>24836986
I don't think you do and I'm going to say so. You can say what you want, though o do believe spreading misinformation, whether intentionally or not, is worse than saying nothing. You could be correct,I doubt it, and making that decision is up to each anon. It's unfortunate you become so perturbed by light questioning and criticism, but your emotional state is not my concern.

>>24836986
godspeed, anon. You're doing the lord's work. LMAO.

>>24837006
I stopped doubting if every author with an ambiguous name is male or not after learning that Pirateaba is male. That was the last holdout. Female authors are always obviously female.

>>24837013
im so perturbed because you do this shit constantly, this is not the first time. and you don't realize how insanely annoying you are
>i dont think you know what you're talking about
I find that comically ironic because I genuinely might be the only person in this thread who has more than the vaguest idea of what's going on over at RR. you certainly don't, based on every discussion I've had with you

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>>24837011
forgot image. apologies.

>24836083
>newcuties taking howie's bait
FUCK OFF HOWIE

>>24836536
Monke

Idea, cultivation but they're playing sports instead, thoughts?

>>24837017
>Female authors are always obviously female.
are they now. (smirking face.JPG)

>>24835785
>what separates good webnovel from bad ones.
Well, the truth is readers dont care about what's good and what's bad. This is true for web novels and traditionally published novels. The majority of readers, whether they're Fortnite addicts reading isekai slop on Royal Road, or erudite feminists with a stick up their ass reading the latest romantasy porn, or the plastic sword collectors at Dragon Con, read only for plot. At no point does the idea of enjoying prose tickle their pickle. At no point do they ask themselves: is this a finely crafted story? It's like someone at Starbucks wondering if the pumpkin syrup in their coffee is made with beta carotine or ammonia-- it never crosses their mind. They only care how sweet it is and if it quenches their caffeine addiction for 30 minutes.

You cannot study the habits of these readers any more than you can study wind patterns. They are fickle and thoughtless.

>>24837017
I kinda assumed APGTS' author was male, but it turns out she's female, pics and everything. So I do have some doubts from person to person

>>24837027
there's a self-insert litrpg on KU/RR where the devil gives him a Football Manager (the game) system.
Gets sidetracked into shit because it focuses too much on him playing too and behind the scenes drama.
Martial Arts Masters is kung-fu cultivation as a real world combat sport plus a romance. It's the LOTM author's best work imo lol.
I read another football one but it was pretty shit. Started in africa iirc.
I think it'd work best with something like baseball because you can isolate the game down to single instances.

>>24837033
Honestly, prose doesn’t count for shit even in “literature”. Its maybe 5% of writing something remarkable. Good ideas are like 60-80%.

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>>24836995
>>24837011
Thanks anons. I'll probably stay away from making more AI covers rn regardless, because holy shit I have like no words done and making AI covers eats up a lot of time. But i'll 100% save all these resources. Right now I'm deciding on one of these three, so if anyone wants to give their opinion, that would be nice

>>24837038
>They are fickle and thoughtless.
As a writer, I feel the following phrase has better alliteration and bounce/flow:
"They're all fickle and feckless."
I'm quite proud of that, btw.
KEK

>>24837051
Just say they’re retarded

>>24837019
Being on this site must be difficult for you with such thin skin.

>>24837058
They come in here every day and pick the same fights, they love it.

>>24837050
Rapable elf

>>24837050
I would love to be your arbiter, cover-anon. And I'm honored you took my advice to heart. But I siply cannot judge "elf covers" as I think of them. IE, anime covers. I long for "regular covers" ALA the old days on used paperbacks. I used to *hate* those 60s watercolors? Now I miss them, how good I had it and didn't know.

>>24837050
Left one is good just use that.

>>24837058
on the contrary, I find it cathartic to call retards retards
if you think you my feelings were hurt or something, you have very weird reading comprehension
>>24837062
yeah basically this. 4chan is obviously kinda shitty by nature. i do also enjoy helping other slopbros, in the rare instances someone earnest comes in trying to learn the ropes or talk about writing or reading, but the shitposting and shitflinging is just kinda how 4chan works

>>24837044
I just saw a picture of a daoist on a basketball jersey and thought dao of dunking but those sound great ill check em out

>>24837063
yeah she is. Cock in the ass rape-able.

>>24836973
both manga and webnovels are designed to be as long and profitable as possible, though.

>>24837074
>i do also enjoy helping other slopbros, in the rare instances someone earnest comes in trying to learn the ropes or talk about writing or reading, but
so don't quit doing it. You might have helped me before, precious few anons did. So keep doing it.

>>24837082
That doesn't matter. I was replying to a post explicitly talking about webnovels on royalroad.

>>24837074
That's good that despite me being insanely annoying, obnoxious, and tiresome, and all sorts of other troublesome things, that it hasn't emotionally affected you in any way.

>>24837107
i outright said you annoyed me, are you actually genuinely retarded?

but being thin skinned means I'm sensitive to insults or criticism, and that isn't the case, I'm just fed up with you in particular after your constant crusade to compete with some very strong contenders in this thread as most obnoxious personality. you contribute literally nothing with your weird autism and just demand sources constantly despite not having any good advice of your own, or even a general idea about how the site works. you exist to be a contrarian nuisance

weeks or months of you being the biggest obnoxious fag and me finally telling you to fuck off does not make me "thin skinned". this meltie is completely deserved

What's the record of consecutive melties on this general? 6?

>>24837130
Well, I hope you've had as much fun with this as I have.

>>24837140
my favorite is still the K-man one. that was nuclear. comedy gold

Which one of you two is the guy who was arguing against stuff like female protagonists and multi-pov last week?

Is it possible to write a satisfying webnovel about racing?
I feel like there’s only so much you can do to make it interesting.

I’d rather make a comic or manga but I can’t draw

I read Azarinth healer and it was workable and entertaining.

Wtf is this Journey to Veresavir shit? Starts off boring as fuck and it has the style of someone's first attempt at writing.

>>24837145
>>24837140
I approve of both.

>>24837145
you're mixing up people because I said having multiple main characters definitely makes it harder on yourself. royalroad readers strongly prefer single-pov narration.
female protag on the other hand might even be a buff on royalroad.

>>24837151
Oops, I missed.
>>24837143

>>24837150
>Starts off boring as fuck and it has the style of someone's first attempt at writing
That's about how bad Azarinth was before it got edited like six times.

>>24837155
Please attach this post to a prior comment in the thread so you can be identified.

So my verdict from last thread with some of the llm models in regards to feedback, from best to worst it's Gemini pro, chatgpt-5, and last place is locked between deepai and grok 4 fast. Gemini's was really solid but also just unbelievably brutal with its assessment, which I liked since it just wasn't the typical sucking up to you and praising you, but it's just held back by the 4-chapters worth of freemium. It stops being a bully pretty much immediately after. Chatgpt felt the most balanced but often didn't provide anything too meaningful to prompt me to incline in my chair and think about what I could actually change, unlike Gemini, but it has a more generous daily freemium. I still didn't give deepai much of a chance because it was clearly just regurgitating itself way too much. grok 4 fast got progressively more incoherent and borderline going schizo assessing nonsense with each chapter and it gave little to offer me any meaningful insight. If there's one thing I wish these sites would let you do is re-generate older messages in the session so it uses the newer model like before. Cus I liked how gemini opened my asshole like a can opener but I'd have to wait each real day to continue the session with pro. thanks for coming to my ted talk.

>>24837157
Yes, to be fair, I only read the book, but still, I would expect more from someone that's written several fictions and millions of words.

>>24837160
is me, meltie anon >>24837130 >>24837155

>>24837163
Dunno if they were the originator of the approach but Azarinth got popular by posting a pretty constant stream of chapters so I doubt they even really enraged in the process of active editing/revision which is what you need to improve.

Kinda insane that they're just launching something new as a sloppy first draft though. Truly too big to fail.

>>24837155
The evidence suggests that it does make it much harder to get onto Rising Stars with multiple POVs. I'm not always against what you have to say for the fun of it.

https://stepan.chizhov.com/which-genres-are-underrepresented-and-which-are-overrepresented-on-the-royal-roads-rising-stars-list/

>>24837140
Alright after the responses they've been going like this for over a week.

>>24837168
Launched 3 days ago, #1 RS, 4.2k followers, sloppy grammar and terrible style, and by God, the most bland start to an isekai I've ever read. I can't understand readers.

>>24837171
i don't need you providing sources, this shit really is just common knowledge to anyone who uses royalroad and writes there
that's kinda why I'm so annoyed with you, you're clearly a complete newfag who doesn't have even a vague idea about the site, yet you keep trying to contradict me when I only speak about stuff I'm pretty damn sure of

>>24837185
You do understand that everything you say is just an assumption right?
That's why you're so fucking annoying. No matter the argument it always descends into this "I feel" shit.

It's exhausting to see it spammed over the thread between you and whoever you're arguing with because you never have a provable point so it's just the same thing restated every post.

>>24837181
Popular thing = good
If my peers like it, I like it.
This is very evident on BookTok and BookTube. If this weren't the case, influencers wouldn't be paid absurd amounts for other more popular stuff.

Reverend Insanity mogs.

>>24837189
>you never have a provable point
dude I just tell people how the site works, like that female protag is totally fine but multiple leads is way harder. the same as how having litrpg or xianxia as a tag makes it way easier. I'm not sure what you mean by provable point but this is useful information for anons to understand the website and make informed decisions on what they want to do. no, i'm not going to write a report and give sources. fuck off with that autistic demand

>>24837163
Hasn't the author said they story is meant to be slower and more slice of life compared to AH's constant action. Maybe it's the tone shift or the author isn't used to writing that style.

>>24837185
I couldn't care less about appeals to authority.

>>24837208
which is totally fair but also I'm going to continue telling anons how the site works and if you want to prove me wrong, you should prove me wrong, not autistically demand I run the analysis myself when you aren't even doing it either.

it's kind of a hopeless endeavor anyway, since it really is shocking how badly anons' stories do here, but I'll keep chiming in where I can, even though autists like you muddy the water and give dogshit advice constantly

Jumping off of the Azarinth Healer point
It's kinda crazy how many prolific RR writers there are who clearly haven't read much.
You wonder why everything comes from video games and maybe the odd film and then as you read more you notice how they never ever draw from anything else. That's their only frame of reference.

>>24837212
The burden of proof is on the one making the claims. Advice is prescriptive. Stats are descriptive. I'm not providing advice other than in the sense of being skeptical.

>>24837216
If the readers are the same way, then maybe that's why they're successful. It could be that compatibility between the author and reader matters more than anything else.

Holy shit you two retards argue like women

>>24837228
you are correct only if this was a formal debate and I cared about winning it
I am going to continue giving advice to anons, because I know how the site works when so few to none of you actually do, and they can take it if they want. and you will continue contributing absolutely nothing besides demanding sources as if that helps anyone in any way

I can't keep track of which character is which in this debate. The author needs to be clearer about who is who in these extended dialogue scenes.

he exclaimed

>>24837259
the post above you is a crab poster who constantly gives people bad unsubstantiated advice and then just says "that doesn't count" for like 8 posts as evidence to the contrary is pointed out.
Genuinely don't get why they keep replying to people because they outright refuse to ever justify anything they say even though they make the original claim as authoritatively as possible.

>>24837259
They need to get trips so I can filter them

>>24837240
Yes, our dynamic will continue.
This is how it is!
Why should we believe you?
Because I know how the site how works.
Proof?
This is common knowledge and based on my experience.
Evidence?
Believe me or not, I don't care, I'm only here to help.
Why?
I really don't know. I guess my wanting to help others to succeed is what keeps me going, despite how futile it may be.
Ok.
Ok.

So basically, if you mention something like "I don't understand why the other reviewers are saying X" in your negative review, it gets insta deleted?

>>24837272
Underrated tag. "Said" losers write BORING stories.

>>24837276
Are you certain that's what you want?

>>24837274
if im making a claim authoritatively it's because I'm nearly certain about it
no, I won't write you a report, and yes, I'll call you a retard and argue about it, because if I get into an extended shitflinging with you, it's because I'm certain you don't know how royalroad works.

when I say shit like 'that doesn't count' it's because you're pulling a retard move like using Pale Lights as an example for why writing Multiple Leads, No Litrpg/Isekai is totally just as viable as writing to meta, because, my god, it's on the best rated page! I've always said you should write what you want, but you should make an informed decision and know how much harder you're making it for yourself.

Also, for the record, I'm not the only one doing that. I've had several of you tards pull 'give me 10 examples' or 'that doesn't count' bullshit too. I'm responsible for some of the shitflinging here, but all of you get into extended melties insanely often without me. this is 4chan after all

>>24837302
Why not? Both of them are already as annoying as tripfags

," he ejaculated

>>24837310
Ok, when I get back home, I'll make a custom one and post with it. I don't really care either way, so you preferring it is sufficient reason to do so.

i'm shocked at how poorly some people write. i get that writing is hard, and im glad they aren't using ai to do it, but wow, sometimes the writing is just straight up terrible. i want to help them but it's so bad i wouldnt even know where to start

I honestly think most of the mutual melties in this thread spawn from two people arguing about different things and thinking they're arguing about the same thing.
Like someone will say 'multiple leads does fine' and will mean that it's still possible to pick up a decent audience, and gives an example of Pale Lights. And other anon will say 'no it doesnt' and mean that it's not meta and that you're going to be playing on hard mode, even if it's still possible. Both are right but both look like idiots in the end

>>24837324
Are you really going to it just because I told you? Dude, stop being such a bitch and just tell to fuck off next time or call me a nigger
I was joking about trip if you couldn't tell, autismo

>>24837344
That's a difference of "possible" vs "likely". I agree that it's important to be arguing about the same things, despite being difficult for many reasons.

Easy mode royalroad is a really quirky premise with a nonhuman female mc.
Write a story about an girl isekai'd into a dragon form and it can be the most dogshit thing in the world and you'll still hit rising stars

why does the title Goy Story sound nice for a WN?

>>24837356
Not my problem that you don't say what you mean. I knew that's what you meant, which is why I asked if you're certain. The consequences will never be the same.

>>24837371
Because you're anti-semitic and like Toy Story.

>>24837377
the goy in this context uses its definition as a general term for nation, ala “goy kadosh”, or sanctified nation, aka how israel is referred to in the hebrew bible

>>24837294
rr admins do delete reviews for seemingly endless reasons lol
i would guess that this one is because it should be self-contained and about the story itself, not anything meta like other reviews or the author in real life or something like that

>>24837374
Not my problem you're autistic and incapable of understanding 4chan culcha

>>24837409
Do this thing that I don't want you to do.
Are you certain you want me to do the thing you don't want me to do?
Yes, do it.
I'm doing it.
Why are you doing it?!
For The Lulz
You don't understand 4chan culture.

>>24837416
Exactly! Not that hard to understand is it?

>>24837422
Even so, the monkey paw shall curl.

I don't even care about the tripfaggotry
I'm pissed because you completely gave in the moment I told you to do something

>>24837033
>At no point does the idea of enjoying prose tickle their pickle. At no point do they ask themselves: is this a finely crafted story? It's like someone at Starbucks wondering if the pumpkin syrup in their coffee is made with beta carotine or ammonia-- it never crosses their mind. They only care how sweet it is and if it quenches their caffeine addiction for 30 minutes.
>You cannot study the habits of these readers any more than you can study wind patterns. They are fickle and thoughtless.
Really nice way of putting it, however there is nothing behind it, nothing backing it, so it's just meaningless.

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omfg all anons itt should just kiss and make up

>>24837442
Joke's on you, I'm already using one, it's just that I'll make another one. It's not about you and you were wrong to think it was.

>>24837145
I hate female protags. Might have been me

>the annoying faggot having melties every single thread was the tripfag that spammed shitty "reviews"
Color me surprised

>>24837459
It's almost like a few anons make the majority of posts.

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>>24837216
95%+ of my ideas are ripped straight from classic SFF magazines. I’m a goddamn fraud.

>>24837469
>It's almost like
Someone just flew in from reddit

>>24837459
His appetite is growing. Shitting up one general (sffg) is no longer enough for him.

>>24837474
Luckily there are so many enablers.

systems are only good when they are subverted

>>24837474
There really was a comfy period before sffg became aware of this general. RI and statsfag have been a travesty to the average posting quality, not that it was particularly high to begin with, but two more autists doesn't help

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>MC uses an axe/spear/hammer
What's the point? Swords are so much cooler

>>24837452
Fuck off, /wng/ is a straight general
/wg/ is where all the fags congregate

>>24837488
Irys doesn't use a sword.

>>24837492
i know for a fact there's like three anons here really into lesbian stories, so this is blatantly false

>>24837498
lesbians are a straight fetish

>>24837504
gays are a straight fetish for women. gay men reading gay fiction is not common at all

>>24837471
I lift pretty much everything I write from folklore but it's okay because nobody reads it these days.

Why are most webnovels so unoriginal and one dimensional? Even the popular ones.

>>24837524
they aren't

you just don't like reading

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>>24837527

>>24837524
Why are most novels so unoriginal and one dimensional? Even the popular ones

>>24837524
Ever think that's what the readers want?

why must this thread be spammed with nonsense?

what wrong have we at /wng/ done to /sffg/ and /wg/?

>>24837546
the problem with this thread is that half of it is about a creative hobby
creative threads are always full of schizo spam, doesn't matter the 4chan board it's a pattern that holds.
If it was just about reading webnovels it'd still have bad posts but it'd be missing that particular brand of annoying post.

>>24837546
Nothing but those generals are completely dead now and seeing this is the most active thread, they come in here like moths to a flame

>>24837546
>what wrong have we at /wng/ done to /sffg/ and /wg/?
at least for /wg/, we stole all the actual writers lol
remember that post a week ago that asked for anons to write a snippet of a fight scene to see our styles? There were like 6 or 7 responses with actual writing
Do that shit in /wng/ and see what happens lol

>>24837557
>Do that shit in /wng/ and see what happens lol
in /wg/, oops

>>24837545
It isn't though. The very top of the format is original and complex as any popular traditional novel, or even more. That's why they are at the top. They're just floating on an endless sea of garbage.

It's like writers come up with one "twist" and then copy/paste the usual format for everything else.
>my character uses healing magic to... ATTACK!!
>in a tower with a system in a DND/JRPG inspired world with game mechanics cheat skill harem isekai regression +1 stat +1 xp revenge story
And to some extent that's going to happen when there's a low barrier to entry, but it seems like there are only a handful of exceptions to this rule, like 0.01% or less.

>>24837554
Two of our most annoying personalities migrated from /sffg/, a pure reading thread, so this post really doesn't seem accurate.
The readerfags in this thread are actually a big minority. It was wayyy chiller when the thread first spawned and it was just all the actual writers who wanted to get the hell out of /wg/

>>24837567
shut the fuck up you worthless grifter

I've got a suicide squad commander type story I'm brainstorming right now and I need some supers to include, hopefully with some witty names. I've already got a secretly evil superman, generic strong protagonist guy, snake lady, and weapon master. Doesn't matter if they're good guys or bad guys, I just need some help coming up with them.

>>24837572
how is that anon acting like a grifter at all?
obviously he's annoying but grifter?

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>>24837572
>incoherent seethe

>>24837578
>muh top novels (that I won't name because I haven't actually read any)

>>24837584
do you...do you know what grifting is, anon?

>>24837586
be patient with esl-kun
he's learning

>>24837586
every imbecile ITT who fantasizes about getting rich quick off webnovels parrots that line of thinking

>>24837590
literally not a single person in this thread fantasizes about getting rich quick off web novels, you seriously need to see a therapist about whatever mental illness this is

>>24837596
authorcattle get what they deserve (nothing)

>>24837590
Yeah, anon...that guy constantly shitting on web novels is definitely the /wg/ troll, not some grifter trying to get rich

>>24837601
they're the same person

>>24837604
I really doubt that. Does not fit the profile. Sounds like you weren't even in /wg/ seeing how you're against 'authorcattle'. His voice is fairly recognizable

>>24837590
This still has nothing to do with grifting

RI poster. Sorry I was busy today with work, I will make up for it in the next thread

>>24837614
RI anon is employed?
That's a shocker, genuinely
Bet it's fast food

>>24837567
Every story beyond a dozen chairs will start diverging from every other story. You might not care about the small differences, but some people do. You add up books worth of those differences and the stories will be different.

Take cultivation novels. People like saying that they're all the same, but that's only the surface level details. You drop into a random cultivation novel on chapter 500 and you won't know what's going on, even if you've read 50 of them before. If they were all the same then you should be able to tell what's happening, but you can't.

The top stories are the top stories because they had a great start for the novel that got them popular enough. That momentum then slowly compounded over time as long as the author kept up with the regular releases and didn't write something that killed the story. You might argue that for a long story to start successful they have to vary it up, but that's not going to bring the story to new heights of success like a good start does.

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I have a confession. I samechad and schizopost. I love accusing other anons of being different posters. I love impersonating those posters. I love stealthily inserting myself into a conversation between two anons and skinwalking one side or the other. I love poisoning the well. I love stirring shit up. I love tormenting you.
Or do I? Maybe I'm just saying this to make you seethe. Maybe I'm too lazy to do these things in the first place. Then again, maybe it's all true. You can't know, but you have to suspect. Every post you read, every anon you reply to, you'll be wondering if it's me. In that way, I've already won.

Remember, you're here forever.

>>24837612
>>24837613
all the trend chasing metafaggotry is just the /wg/ tard trying to cope with the fact that no one wants to read his boring shit and blaming it on being off-meta, acting like he'd be totally popular if he just used the same tropes

this particular grifter doesn't even actually grift, he just fantasizes about it

>>24837622
I'm afraid to tell you that you're samefag schizoing like crazy because i'm one of the people who talks about site trends and writing to market, and I've seen at least two other anons chatting about it amongst each other too. So at the very least there's three of us, probably more.
It's normal to talk about site trends and what works or doesn't on royalroad, and how to maximize a launch. It's just a normal part of being a self pub author. None of us advocate to write shit you hate, it's just important to know the landscape so you can make decisions and set your expectations properly.

That /wg/ tard always saying serials suck is definitely not a grifter secretly trying to make a serial and get rich, I would honestly bet an enormous sum of money on it. But I guess we can't know for certain

>>24837632
we know for certain

you're not fooling anyone here

>>24837616
lol, no I had to clean my room. Working and holding a job is very unlike RI.

>>24837633
honestly don't know what you mean by this, i know you're a schizo so it's par for the course, but we can't read your mind

>>24837634
Why are you calling chores work

>>24837635
oh you're saying I'm the /wg/ tard myself?
Lol that's actually really funny because you're grouping like 5 different anons together now as the same person.
How does it even get this bad

>>24837638
My mom paid me $20 to do it.

>>24833623
>>24833774
Someone explain this one to me, how did they get away with that upload schedule and make it to #1 RS?

>>24837640
nta, but honestly for my mental health sometimes I believe for my own sake that everyone I don't like in this thread is all the same guy

>>24837647
Ads? Shoutouts? The most likely explanations by far.
It's really not that hard to hit RS if you're on meta and writing something not awful, and run an ad or two and get shoutouts. I mean, these Discord tards are doing it by the dozen every single month.

>>24837033
"Prose" and "finely crafted story" are code for "boring". Fuck off, Tolstoy.
>It's like someone at Starbucks wondering if the pumpkin syrup in their coffee is made with beta carotine or ammonia-- it never crosses their mind.
This is very apt, because it just doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether their coffee is "finely crafted" or not. What matters is whether it tastes good and has the caffeine they want, just like with a story. Finally crafted prose is not important. Prose exists to convey the story. As long as it doesn't get in the way of that then the prose is good enough. Anything extra will almost certainly make the story worse, not better.

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I want to write a story and have it be somebody's favorite. Just one person in the world is enough.

>>24837647
>write slop
>make it to #1 on slop list

310 reached in only 12 hours or so. The power of arguing is mighty.

If you want to write a successful webnovel, study Reverend Insanity.

>>24837670
i will never forget the day we had 3 separate /wng/ threads on lit, the previous two on bump limit
once, we were great...

>>24837675
That was the legendary K-man meltie, wasn't it?

>>24837675
That's called making a new thread too early.

>>24837661
write an NTR story for me please but have the mc be the one getting stolen by a femme fatale.

>>24837695
seething /wg/ cuck with only one thread be like:

Is it true that deckbuilding will take over in January just like the Girl Evos?
I am slightly concerned because the story I'm writing is deckbuilding but I can't write enough by the year ends to get ahead before they completely kill the genre.

>>24837492
Not fooling anyone, now grab the nearest guy and smooch until the goo comes out. RI-fag is hungry.

>>24837586
It's when you wear a cool mask and do sick karate moves with guns even though you're like super-psychic, right? Remember Grifter, from Wildstorm? Goddamn I miss Wildstorm.

>>24837645
What a bitch. Hope she dies, RI fag, you don't deserve that kind of abuse.

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>>24837730
I should write an over the top comedy with gun-fu based combat

>>24837709
i really doubt it'll be anything like the evo girls. not only was that launch a smaller group of very established authors, it was also in a popular niche. nonhuman female mc is kinda a cheese strat onto rising stars
this next launch will be a bunch of nobodies in a genre that always underperforms (deckbuilding). I think some of them will get onto rising stars, and I guess the sheer numbers will be annoying, so it's best to avoid anyway and just launch another month. But they aren't gonna be clogging up 8/10 top slots like the evogirls did

>>24837723
Go back to /trash/

I take 1 hour and 20 minutes to write 1000 words unedited prose based on an outline.