>>24867465
first for pink masts

>>24867558
Hear! Hear! And second for
Walk with me, my sweet summer child, and hear the tale of fat pink masts jutting into sopping wet myrish swamps and black nipples brushing against silk until her cunt became the world while in the privy the princess guzzled arbor gold and shat but the more she drank the more she shat until she was shitting brown water and around her the planks of the ship groaned like a fat man taking a shit while she cursed the gods and nuncle smiled as he broke his fast on black bread, bacon burned black, and mulled wine while capon-grease dribbled down his chin and onto the boiled leather of his jerkin for she was wet with love and did she not know words are wind and dark wings bring dark words and a lannister always pays her debts and mayhaps this is nothing but a mummers farce and useless as nipples on a breastplate and the princess has been fucking lancel and moonboy for all nuncle knows and he is the blood of the dragon for the night is dark and full of terrors but where do whores go and jon snow knows nothing and near enough makes no matter so nuncle smiled and dipped the heel of his bread into clam chowder and prayed for half a hundred more heh har HODOR

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>>24867813

>>24867465
>dornish phalanx
Is that canon? Where was it mentioned?

>>24867828
>>24867813
Why is Dorne so fucking dry? It feels like it's too exotic. A remnant from when the world was just Westeros.

>>24867465
So are we getting those art pieces Anon said he'd make, its been like 2 weeks?

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recommend me some asoiaf-pilled games
im playing FF XVI right now and lore inspiration is so obvious. played elden ring but there's no story so fuck this game.

>>24868129
Mount & Blade: Warband. Lol.

>>24867891
idk but they fight with shields and spears

>>24868129
>there’s no story
Read nigga

>>24868074
I forgot about that. Still dont remember much about his promise.

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thoughts?

>>24868264
So did 90% of armies for the vast majority of human history.

Hot Pie would be the ideal Master of Whispers now that I think about it.

>>24868667
>abandoned his story right as magic was about to take center stage
This fat fraud only knows how to write littlefinger and varys schemes.

>>24868667
>My magic system isn't a magic system because it's costly and sometimes it backfires

>>24868667
For once I agree with the rotund procrastinator. The way Sanderson writes magic, at least what little I have read from him, it is far too systematic; everything is laid out before the reader, there's little mystery to be had.

>>24868667
He's right for once.

>>24868478
I think it was two pieces of Tyrion being capture by Catelyn and Stannis recruiting the Northern Mountain clans

>>24868129
Final Fantasy type-0 kinda, but the gameplay is ass and it requires multiple playthroughs.
Crusader Kings if you have autism and want to 'play' a spreadsheet.

>>24868667
Makes for good stories but it's not true. The word 'supernatural' is a modernist invention done as a semantic sleight of hand to denigrate magic. People always knew that magic was part of the natural world. Magic can backfire because it's hard, not because it's not natural.

>>24868667
when was this?

>>24869194
The way Sanderson writes anything is steaming fucking garbage.

>>24869317
Magic works best either the Sanderson way where everything is thought out and internally consistent (although Sanderson himself spends far too much time explaining his magic systems rather than developing characters), or the Tolkein way, where you kind of never really see it. Having wizards running around throwing fireballs and summoning spirits and raising the dead cheapens both the setting and the concept of magic.

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>>24868667
>thoughts?

Makes sense, I don't want to read a bunch of magic rules, all that matters is the effect on the story.

>>24869332
woah!
i thought he was always a fatfuck

>>24869332
Woah he was a loser just like me? I finally get it Georgie. I wouldn't have finished the books either.

>>24869332
>beard
>no mustache
i never knew gurm was a muslim

>>24868264
Everyone does. Are there any mentions of them fighting in a phalanx with large round bronze shields?

>>24868129
Crusader Kings

>>24867465
>"You must name another heir, until such time as Jeyne gives you a son." She considered a moment. "Your father's father had no siblings, but his father had a sister who married a younger son of Lord Raymar Royce, of the junior branch. They had three daughters, all of whom wed Vale lordlings. A Waynwood and a Corbray, for certain. The youngest . . . it might have been a Templeton, but ...
Wow Catelyn really was doing everything she fucking could to stop Jon being named heir to Robb

>>24870061
Around Bastards, Await Disaster

>>24870061
And for good reason, once legitimized, most northern houses would support him over Sansa and Arya, while the same cannot be said for some random Vale lords- Also Jon had a dream about cutting off Robb's head and shouting that he's the lord of Winterfell

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>>24870085
>most northern houses would support him over Sansa and Arya
Based. W*men should never rule.

>>24869244
Would have been cool
>>24869330
>Having wizards running around throwing fireballs and summoning spirits and raising the dead cheapens both the setting and the concept of magic
I don't know why people are so opinionated about magic. This viewpoint feels kind of pretentious. As if saying that liking fantastical things enough to want to see more of it is somehow bad/immature.

>>24869332
>I dreamed I was old.

>>24868129
A world of ice and fire is an amazing mod. Is it perfect and will it capture the whole essence of ASoIaF? No but its the closest you will get.

>some days ago
>go to bed
>dream I'm in a Mediterranean villa chatting with GRRM
>he tells me he's waiting for a girl he met years ago and that he's in love with
>the girl passes by, dressed like a dominatrix
>she's a former workmate of mine
>GRRM says hello to her
>she answers angrily she has no time slots for him
>wake up
HELP

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>>24870372

>>24870389
The worst of it is, I don't know whatever became of her and she was so pretty ;_;

>>24870372
Should have whipped him to write the books.

>>24870398
Requiem for a Dream (2000) for the QRD

>>24870372
kino

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2025/11/10/ffc-art-accusations/

Lol. Lmao even.

>>24870730
Just went through a twitter thread with the art linked, absolute AI slop
No heraldry, characters not wearing house colors, a fuckin cross

https://x.com/novembernatten/status/1986109371177181669

>>24870835
Would be funny if it wasn't ai and instead just the world's dumbest artist

>>24870730
>>24870835
>>24870928
>mismatched colors
>only vague resemblence to the scenes they're supposed to represent
>shitty/generic MMO tier designs where Margaery's wedding dress randomly has armor on it
>general AI fuckery like weird limb placements, jewelry that sinks into the skin and nonsensical backrounds
The guy they got to do these didn't even bother to use a good generator. You could probably get better results by just copy pasting the scene from the book + each character's description. Embarassing.

>>24870730
Love that they protect the AI guy AND at the same time distance themselves and put the blame on him in case if anybody manages to prove what he did. Embarassing that a boomer like George bothers to engage in this debate though, since when he has any knowledge of it?

>>24870928
This is the most generic AI crap possible, you'd have to really go out of your way to make it look that AI generated. Just the first picture in that post has a weird assymetrical crown (that looks like a generic cartoony fantasy crown and nothing like the one described) held by a green skinned zombie.
Just skimming through and we also have;
>a crucifix hanging off a wall for no reason in the one where Sam's throwing a punch (I guess the Braavosi became christian)
>Cersei (wearing blue) sitting on a chair in front of the Iron throne, seemingly with only one leg left. Generic fantasy crown.
>Tommen & Marge's wedding where both are wearing armor inside a non-euclidian gothic church
>long haired Tywin buried in a crown by his two innacurate children (in the Lannister blue, naturally)
Each and every single one is filled with obvious AI hallmarks. Even if the characters looked accurate to their descriptions, the 'style' is the most obvious slop imaginable.

>>24871125
The post wasn't written by him, they probably just asked him to put it up to put an end to the controversy. George is a boomer so he might not have good eyes for slop, but he should take issue with accuracy and definitely the abysmal quality. But he most likely wasn't consulted (prior official art is stellar by comparison) and if he was, he's deteriorated too much to finish even Winds on it's own.

The whole thing is particularly retarded because historically ASOIAF has pretty stellar artwork as seen in The World of Ice & Fire and the colored illustrated Fire & Blood edition, plus all the calendar art. Even the graphic novel editions of the Dunk and Egg stories are very detailed in the artwork. How did they drop the ball so hard here? Why is everything so enshittified?

>>24871213
Maybe the declining popularity of the franchise led to profit margins getting squeezed, which led to cost cotting and the company hiring the cheapest artist they could. And as usual, when you are hiring the cheapest guy expect him to cut corners as well

>>24870835
even if it's not AI (it probably is) that Crown of Winter is fucking horrible

>>24871213
>ASOIAF has pretty stellar artwork
What are you talking about? On the contrary, this has always been a weak point. A great series saddled with sloppy & generic art.

>>24870085
>most northern houses would support him over Sansa
Who the fuck would want to be ruled by fucking Sansa?

>>24871266
Petyr Baelish
Maybe Stannis, he's into redheads

>>24871263
I'm thinking of Magali Villeneuve and René Aigner in Rise of the Dragon and the recent calendar. Some of the art in Rise of the Dragon was pretty good, but glancing through it, there's still a lot of slop.

Also here's a quote from the CEO of Penguin Random House that published the AFFC illustrated edition:

> Mr. Malaviya’s primary goal is growth. After the collapse of the Simon & Schuster deal, it became clear Penguin Random House could not buy its way out of the decline, so much of its growth will have to come organically — by selling more books. Mr. Malaviya said that, hopefully, A.I. will help, making it easier to publish more titles without hiring ever more employees

https://archive.is/20240502121011/https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/30/books/penguin-random-house-nihar-malaviya.html#selection-4425.0-4425.369

>>24871388
>AI slop supporter is a fucking jeet
Every time.

Elio also went through the wiki a while back and generated a bunch of lame AI fanart to upload for some characters

>>24870730
gurm is such a fat fucking disgrace. keep chasing pedowood slop you old demented fuck

>>24870730
What a fat hack

>>24871402
Keep, coping little timeon, Asshai chads own westeros.

Asshite-by-the-street

>>24871734
Lazy westerosi know nothing about advance asshain magicks. The next king of Westeros will be form Asshai

my OC character is Dickon Ball

>>24870835
>>24870928
>>24870730
>>24871115
>>24871230
GRRM fans confirmed brown... many such cases

>>24871213
The 2025 calendar is definitely AI or some sort of shitty digital art trickery. The 2026 looks much better and has a real artist attached to it. George had me for these two years for hope. No 2027 for me. I'm happy I've been part of the fandom just as things really went to shit. Fuck GRRM

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Who is the hottest MILF of ASOIAF?

>>24872137
we don't know since it is a book series and therefore there won't be any canon pictures of the characters, only cringe fanarts and the shitty hbo show

>>24869247
He’s using it as a figure of speech, you potato. The supernatural is relative. The fire a wizard conjures is still fire. The children of the forest would definitely see their magic as natural. The supernatural just means occult nature.

Drop a shiny chrome candy bar wrapper into the past and it’s going to be seen as unnatural. Same with whatever the hell is responsible for the magic in asoiaf. Magic is something to entertain, by men as well as higher powers.

>>24872182
>Magic is something to entertain, by men as well as higher powers.
For men, it’s seeing things like metallurgy and alchemy as forms of sorcery. For higher powers, it’s whatever the hell is sending visions to people.

>>24872137
It was between Cersei and Melisandre but the former is a fat alcoholic now so Mel is the undisputed GOAT (yes she counts as a milf because she gave birth)

>>24872137
She's younger than me now.

>>24872206
I was about to be a blonde loving slave and say Cersei. You are right, Mel is better.

THE RED-HAIRED WHORE AT ASHFORD WAS MELISANDRE

What if Maegor the Cruel was Maegor the Kind

>>24872826
His impotent seething Visenya genes would still have doomed him

>>24872137
you can judge a man by the power of his enemies and a woman by the status of her orbiters
so the answer can only be Lyanna Stark

MELISANDRE IS QUAITHE IS SHIERIA SEASTAR IS MELONY

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>>24872826
holy based
>>24872859
holy cringe

> Six Wives
> Zero Heirs
The Seed was weak. Rhaenys won

>>24868667
>magic is a plot device I can use for whatever I fucking like

>>24869332
That room reeks of stale sweat, unchanged clothes and virginity.

>>24872943
LOLLYS IS THE GHOST OF HIGH HEART

>>24872906
God I bet Lyanna had sexy feet

Wait a minute I just realized. Maegor was sterile because he was brought back from death so the in universe rules state that the undead can’t breed. Dany is sterile from the witches curse and Aegon isn’t really a Targaryen. This means that even if Jon gets brought back the Targaryen line is already extinct

>>24873429
He was married to Ceryse Hightower for 15 years with no kids by the time he died.

>>24872137
Cat

Magic is like radiation and makes you infertile. Only the Valyrians (as well as their precursors) and the Children of the Forest knew how to circumvent this and produce more magical lineages. Shadow binders in Asshai are probably infertile.

it will never cease to amaze me that people actually ride roy dotrice's dick so hard they think his narration of asoiaf is remotely tolerable, let alone good.

>>24874022
DavidReadsASOIAF mogs him

>>24873422
SATIN IS THE REAL AEGON

>>24869194
In premodern cultures magic was an attempt to apply systematic thinking to nature, which seemed inscrutable and chaotic, in order to hopefully get more consistent results. So Sanderson is actually sort of on the same wavelength as ancient sorcerers when he reduces the supernatural down to consistent systems with repeatable formulae. Making the world less mysterious and more amenable to mundane human activity was the point. This same thinking is also why nature was often seen as evil or at least hostile, and mythologies often featured nature stand-ins such as Tiamat being slain or tamed by the anthropomorphic gods of civilization. Gods of magic like Odin, Enki and Thoth were usually on the side of the civilized gods. Science killed magic because it is just a straightforward upgrade that accomplishes the same goal but better.

>>24874022
>>24874374
Filtered. You actually fucking sicken me.

>>24874650
what sickens me is listening to roy dotrice choke on phlegm or attempt to imitate a female

>>24874535
>So Sanderson is actually sort of on the same wavelength as ancient sorcerers when he reduces the supernatural down to consistent systems with repeatable formulae
It was still poking at mystery. Confronting it. It was still risky business. Like, sure, the system in ancient China was “drink this mercury for longevity” at the time. Natural learning even very recently was spliced with spirituality, religion, etc, and all religion, all spirituality, has mystery, mysticism, at its core.

Magic is cutting edge. Again, it’s sort of like Marie Curie poking at radiation, trying to figure it out, and becoming sick in the process. Her diary is still radioactive. Or just Isaac Newton treating natural sciences as a side project in his obsessive theological disputes. He was obsessed with Hermetic alchemy and sacred geometry.

There’s definitely a system afoot (if there wasn’t nothing would happen), but it’s iffy and possibly even dangerous, and it may even be closer to the realm of psychology—the softest science of all—if it’s a lot like, or comparable to, tossing a piece of raw meat to a wild and dangerous animal. How personable is the magic? Magic is Alive. Spirits and gods and other forces that *interact*. Magic in ancient times usually had or was attributed it to external intelligence(s). Magical ability, even prophetic ability, was seen as a gift from the gods. Or demons. Do demons see themselves as magical? Do the gods for that matter?

Otherwise it’s just humans interpreting esoteric knowledge bases as magic, the way the Greeks did, or the way poisoners, alchemists, artificers and smiths were seen as sorcerers, and wizards, etc, once upon a time.

Magic is something to entertain, be it on your end or another’s, and perceptions will definitely change over time. The word for pharmacy came from an old Greek word for sorcery, and the word for magic in ancient Greece eventually took on or incorporated higher forms of natural learning, not solely just hocus pocus or superstition (which was, again, just the realm of psychology - the Greeks thought the Persian magi demon summoners and magicians - but later they realized they’re just tending to their own religion, and they have legitimate knowledge to impart).

Magic, like religion, or power, is relative and it updates itself, but the essential ingredients are mystery and exposure logic. Wonder and enchantment. “Wow, how, and why?”. It births religion. “I know something you don’t know”, “I can do something you can’t do”, “I have friends you don’t have”, etc, falls along into it.

The universe is its own stage as well as its own magician.

>>24874692
shit-covered pajeet hands prompted ChatGuPTa for this post

>>24874692
I also really wish more would understand that religion is a precursor to science in observation-theory. “The stars are the gods” was their observational theory, their science, at the time.

The self-acknowledgment of the scientific method doesn’t mean it just came into being come the scientific revolution. The ancient Egyptians were going about the scientific method when they prepared the tinctures to dye their robes regardless of whatever they thought of the matter.

>>24874696
I am not a Jeet. I am white. I may ramble but I am 100% human. I just added to my post here >>24874699

I’d point out a few spelling errors as proof of my human-ness but lately I’ve noticed that even chatgpt makes spelling errors.

Humans hate empowering the unknown and this is why physicists will scream at you for describing gravity as magical due to how little we know about it really.

>ChatGuPTa
Also lol’d

>Do demons see themselves as magical? Do the gods for that matter?
It would be like seeing yourself as a god to ants, and being annoyed that they’re not worshiping you after dropping a few jelly beans on top of their ant hill

>>24874703
you 100% did not write that post and no, you are not aryan saar. no normal person uses em dashes or curved quotation marks, and those two things combined with the double paragraph spacing most definitely mean that you did not write this

>>24874754
I appreciate the effort, but alas, I wrote all of it, and I am most certainly white.

>>24874707
Isn't of physics fake anyway, it's all theory and cope

>>24874902
Those theories make testable predictions. If the results of the tests match the predictions of the theory, then the theory is (at least in part) accurate.

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If you could have Christopher Lee play one role in a GoT adaptation, who would you cast him as?

Tywin? Barristan?

Any number of Targaryens?

>>24875107
tycho nestoris

>>24875107
jaehaerys

>>24868667
>"Magic must be le mysterios and shouldn't have any rules"
>The most magic-heavy storyline (Bran's) is one that is the hardest for him to write
Yeah, sounds nice, but it doesn't look like it's working.

>>24875107
Satin.

>>24875107
Christopher Lee would be very well suited to the Blackfish. He lacks the range needed for Tywin, and replacing Charles Dance as Tywin is an almost impossible task.
Say what you will about the scripts he was given, he's considered one of the best British actors for a reason and had an absolutely electric chemistry with every other performer he interacted with regularly, especially Peter Dinklage.
I feel bad that he went back to doing slop ITV dramas after his role in GoT ended but I'm glad he gained worldwide recognition at least.

The non Roy Dotrice voice actor they picked for AFFC is just terrible, holy shit. Everything is told in the exact same cadence, every character talks the same way in voice, accent and tone, it's insane. Who the hell approved this?
Dotrice's ADWD is markedly worse than the first three books but it's still in a completely different league.
If the series is ever finished I hope they get the people that did Wheel of Time to voice it all.

>>24875126
Methinks Sam is also holding him up pretty hard

>>24870835
One thing AI is better at than any human artist is images of things that meld into each other, where you can almost see something comprehensible but not quite. You could AI yourself a mean R'hlorr fire vision.

>>24874477
Satin's balls look like fuzzy peaches

>>24875495
Satin is a girl and Robert's bastard and a qt
revealed to me in a green dream

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In another world, Robert Baratheon could have faked his death and give his throne to Stannis while he just adventured, hunted, and drank.

>>24875545
who are these supposed to be?

>>24875618
I don't know, the girl looks vaguely like Arya. I just posted it because I like posts with images, they're pretier.

>>24870730
Just took a look at David Lightbringer's video on this and the art is totally ai generated. I don't know how anyone can look at those images and think a human produced them.

>>24875120
Done.

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I like Stannis, he clearly has the best claim and he's level-headed and honest. He'd make a competent king, if not a popular one. But he is bald, and morally I don't know if I can fully support that.

>>24868862
This
He even stated at Bubonicon and Oxford that the plotlines he struggles the most with are Sam and Bran's, who are conveniently, the most magically tied up plotlines. Because frankly, how the FUCK are glass candles not a hard magic system? How is warging not a hard magic system? The warlocks at the House of the Undying seemed to be able to maintain their immortality for a while. The children of the forest also seem pretty consistent with their ability to live in animals and the weirwoods.

>>24869194
>>24869330
I think Sanderson just has a different goal for magic in his stories- using a fake-science magic to problem solve in his universe. You also have to remember that he is a mormon, so his worldbuilding is literally part of his religious activities while prepping for Godhood. He literally thinks he will make the Cosmere real, which is why the magic system has to be autistically detailed.

>>24870730
I wouldn't be surprised if OpenAI paid this guy to put shitty AI art in GRRM's illustrated edition for the sole reason that GRRM is leading one of the lawsuits against them and hoped this would torpedo it.

>>24869247
>>24868667
I think George needs to read Isaac Newton's books on alchemy and realize that some of them did think this magical stuff was repeatable in a lab.

>>24875545
He wouldn't need to fake his own death?

He could have lead an army overseas and been gone for years like roman generals always did.

>>24875793
Roman Emperors were actively expected to campiagn and throw frstivals though, I don't remember Westorosi kings having any expectations on their action but the fact that they're seemingly always in the Crownlands outside warfare or diplomacy makes me think they're expected to stay in the crownlands for some reason. I know Tywin used Robert's idleness as a symptom of his shittiness.

A united Seven Kingdoms were on borrowed time as soon as the dragons died out. The only reason such a large spread of land could be forcibly united was the mobility of dragons. So the show's ending of a world without dragons and a splintered kingdom into multiple independent states is just the natural conclusion of things. There's no way anyone could enforce the territorial claims of the Targaryens without the dragons Frankly, it's a miracle the Targs were able to hold on for another hundred years. I think a more realistic setting would've had the Blackfyre Rebellion end in a permanently divided kingdom.

>>24868667
>magic has to have no rules!!!
This is fucking stupid. How the fuck does he think magic rituals and shit worked in the past? Even the word ritual implies a defined, repeatable set of actions. Which is what magic was. People didn't just flail around randomly, they logically and systematically attempted to influence the world around them according to their conception of reality. It's just that their understanding of the principles of nature were incomplete/wrong.

This idea has gotten popular among 4chuds. I don't know why they insist that magic has to be le spoopy and unexplained. It's not even magic if it doesn't have rules. In real life, but even more so in a story. In a story you are effectively already omnipotent. Making something happen and calling it "magic" is just (you) pulling a plot device out of your hairy asshole. It's magic when it adheres to a set of internally consistent rules, a portion of which must be known to the readers if not the practitioners.

>>24875869
Ideally magic should have ironclad rules in the author's head but without the characters in the story knowing more than a fraction of them.

>>24875830
I think it's pretty cromulent given how big many empires are and how little the king of the Seven Kingdoms functionally matters. The main institution is Westoros is obviously the Faith of the Seven, there is infrastructure like the Kingsroad, and the Maesters seem to be an organized bureaucracy who greatly benefit the seven kingdoms individually. The North, Iron Isles, and Dorne are the only regions I think would benefit greatly from independence, the rest of the five kingdoms seem to have a good thing going on under an imperial rule, when the king isn't a dipshit obviously but even the most fractured and unstable places do fine under competent enough leadership (eg China, Rome, and Russia)

>>24875830
>>24875917
The Vale could easily be independent as well, the Bloody Gate is just as good a fortification as Moat Cailin, they've got fertile soil and Gulltown is one of the most well-placed ports in Westeros. Through the Three Sisters the Vale can control all trade coming in and out of White Harbor, so the Vale would also have the North by the balls.

>>24875881
this

Watching Pluribus and it got me thinking how hiveminds, and thus the children of the Forrest/old gods, are evil. I wonder how George is reconciling his love of the old gods and his plan of making bran king with his hatred of artificial superintelligence

>>24876119
>Through the Three Sisters the Vale can control all trade coming in and out of White Harbor, so the Vale would also have the North by the balls.
If such an obvious weak point existed for the north the stark arryn war would not have lasted a thousand years.

>>24875820
He can make up any excuse he wants to go east for war. Like he wants his legacy to be that of an 8 Kingdom realm.

Hell he can settle Norvos as the first step to going east, as it appears to have land similar to Westeros.

Assuming this map is accurate of course.
https://quartermaester.info/

>>24875830
The Dance ended with the North waving its dick around. Cregan taking his vows seriously and having the last standing army allowed the Kingdoms to come back together. I think everyone was so war wary they figured fuck it, give Aegon III a chance, there won't be anymore wars with him. In the time after Aegon III, I think the reason everyone remained loyal to the crown was because you could feasibly advance yourself beyond your local kingdom. Tyrells live for that shit and I would assume there was always a Lannister on the small council. Just as there would soon be a Martell always in a Targaryen's bed. Starks just love their honor and never made a move sooner than Robb which by his time was a Post-Targaryen world. It's fun to think about but you're right it couldn't last forever.

>>24875495
Imagine what they'd taste like if you put them in your mouth h-haha I jape

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>>24875869
You're not doing the necessary nuance. See >>24874692

Magic is/was a lot like psychology, which isn’t a hard science at all.

Magic in George’s environment is a “science”, not a science. “Magic”.

It's at the edges:

— ‘"Fantasy needs magic in it, but I try to control the magic very strictly. You can have too much magic in fantasy very easily, and then it overwhelms everything and you lose all sense of realism. And I try to keep the magic magical — something mysterious and dark and dangerous, and something never completely understood. I don’t want to go down the route of having magic schools and classes where, if you say these six words, something will reliably happen. Magic doesn’t work that way. Magic is playing with forces you don’t completely understand. And perhaps with beings or deities you don’t completely understand. It should have a sense of peril about it.” - George R. R. Martin

No different from tossing to a wild beast a piece of meat and hoping for its favour.

No different from alchemists in antiquity chugging mercury thinking it’s longevity.

No different from psychologists poking at the human brain and claiming to know it.

No different from past physicists poking at nuclear cores and dying horribly in the process.

No different from mad science - "ah sweet, man-made horrors beyond my comprehension".

If mystery, wonder and horror make magic, then ignorance is the greatest magic of all.

The capital-w wizard is so transcendent, so alien, and so humble, that they don't see themselves as capital-w wizards. Their bar for magic is so far off from yours.

I know JonCon's bottom was impacted, if thats what you're referring to

>>24876536
>Starks just love their honor
Why do people conflate Ned's traits with those of his house?

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>>24877052

Who are the dishonorable Starks?

>>24877110
>theon burning andal villages
>bennard trying to steal his nephew's birthright
>brandon sticking his dick in every hole
>every stark who sacrificed people to trees like bran's vision showed
>every stark who engaged in or turned a blind eye to prima nocta
>the night's king presumably
>that one brandon who threw a tantrum and burned the north's fleet

>>24877192
ah, the Legend of Brandon the Burner, know thats not a story the citadel would tell you.

>>24877192
theon stark was the most based stark ever
>teams up with the boltons to crush the disgusting stinky and*l invaders and their gay faith
>ties the corpse of their leader to the prow of his ship
>sails to essos and rapes and pillages and*l lands
>refuses to elaborate
>leaves and lines his borders with the spiked heads of the and*l filth he slaughtered

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>>24877219
This your god bro?

>>24877231
Imagine being an Andal invader and raping this goblins little green pussy after a good genocide and weirwood burning sesh. Shits probably so tight

>>24877254
It was the First Men who did most of the COTF-raping and Weirwood-burning, actually.

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>>24877219
For me it's Belthasar Bolton.

>>24877272
Then they turned around and said “soowwyyyy we’ll worship you now”. Most cucked shit I’ve ever heard

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>>24877298
Based Bolton enjoyer

>>24877314
Robb should've just let Roose flay some Lannisters, that probably would've satisfied him and stopped him from going full traitor.
Even if it didn't, the Lannisissies still deserve it.

>>24867465
So, there are only fords in The Trident? The Twins and Ryby Ford?
Even though the distance of the Trident is plus +500 mile/800 kilometers.
Seems ridiculous, it would only have two, typically large navigable rivers have a ford every 31 miles/50 km.

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>>24877333
forgot pic

>>24877333
the trident is supposed to be very wide and fast flowing so there is only one ford, at the mouth.

>>24877356
won't explain it, it isn't the Amazon. It's shorter than the Seine

>>24877361
length doesn't have to mean volume

>>24877304
It's kind of ridiculous how they've managed to successfully take Winterfell multiple times yet have never been wiped out as punishment.

>>24877426
Meant for>>24877314

>>24876693
Renly surely knew

imagine when all the river systems of Westeros are canalized and you can sail from Moat Cailin to Oldtown without setting foot on land or taking your ship into open ocean
pure industrial SOVL

>>24875869
>This idea has gotten popular among 4chuds. I don't know why they insist that magic has to be le spoopy and unexplained
Do you even know what magic is? Clearly you don’t.

>>24875869
>Even the word ritual implies a defined, repeatable set of actions
Um. Okay. Except how much of the ritual really matters? Even with science we did not really know what really mattered. The development of science was a great filter. Past natural philosophers were repeating and parroting the most baseless of dumb ass shit imaginable in the quest for truth.

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This is Paracelsus, a hermetic alchemist, or proto chemist; also the greatest natural physician of his day, and described as the ‘father of mineral medicinals’.

Paracelsus believed he could produce a slave creation, or a familiar of sorts—the Homunculus—by ejaculating into chicken eggs, or worse.

— ‘That the sperm of a man be putrefied by itself in a sealed cucurbit for forty days with the highest degree of putrefaction in a horse's womb ["venter equinus", meaning "warm, fermenting horse dung"], or at least so long that it comes to life and moves itself, and stirs, which is easily observed. After this time, it will look somewhat like a man, but transparent, without a body. If, after this, it be fed wisely with the Arcanum of human blood, and be nourished for up to forty weeks, and be kept in the even heat of the horse's womb, a living human child grows therefrom, with all its members like another child, which is born of a woman, but much smaller.’ - 328–329

The original coomer, if you will.

Magic is weird nature. Wizardry is weird science.

>>24877913
>weird science

>Plastic tubes and pots and pans
>Bits and pieces and the magic from the hand
>We're makin' weird science, ooh
>Things I've never seen before
>Behind bolted doors, talent and imagination

>>24877893
The ritual was all-important in Greco-Roman magic, to the point where any failure to achieve the desired result was assumed to be because of doing the ritual slightly wrong. There was an assumption that gods and spirits were autistic sticklers for detail and that the covenant between practitioner and spirit was not valid unless the ritual was done flawlessly. Kind of like how in modern law practice a typo can fuck up an entire legal contract. Not that a fantasy writer is under any obligation to slavishly ape this mindset in his worldbuilding.

>>24877941
You’re missing the point. You bring up the religious rites of the ancient Romans (which were more like political customs at the time - it was irrelevant if you actually believed in the existence of the gods) as though mystery wasn’t the core pillar of religion in general - or the mystery cults that permeated Roman times.
>The ritual was all-important in Greco-Roman magic, to the point where any failure to achieve the desired result was assumed to be because of doing the ritual slightly wrong
Ah yes. Blame the priest or shaman for failing to make the crops grow. That a rite failed to work despite it being repeated or performed with “perfect execution” is just showing that it was not an exact science even to them, and they coped the same way modern day scientists cope. “Surely WE got it wrong… …not the physics…”
>There was an assumption that gods and spirits were autistic sticklers for detail
This is just looping back to the realm of psychology. Attempting to appease any sufficiently intelligent lifeform, godlike or not, isn’t a hard science. What if the gods didn’t care if someone perfectly executed the ritual correctly that day? What if gods shows pity for the hard effort? What if the gods refuse to respond to anyone but the special chosen someone? Gods aren’t an engine or machine, and as such spells or rituals aren’t necessarily buttons to press. They are signals. Contact.
>Kind of like how in modern law practice a typo can fuck up an entire legal contract
Treating magic like law is apt. There is no true power to it. We just follow it. What if magic is like this? What if a faerie is just obliged to work for you? What if they are so compulsively or obsessively autistic it cannot disobey? Cannot lie? Imagine the implications if humans were biologically unable to resist an order.

>Imagine the implications if humans were biologically unable to resist an order.
According to the schizos on /pol/ this is what the Jews want but I have yet to see proof of it

>>24878035
>which were more like political customs at the time - it was irrelevant if you actually believed in the existence of the gods
A take so ignorant, it could have come from GRRM himself.

>>24878047
If you seriously think that there weren’t priests who transcended faith/belief and saw such as a physical (metaphorically speaking) tool to wrap or enchain around the faithful peoples’ necks, you’re quite a phenomenal retard yourself.

>>24878047
Roman religious rituals were intertwined with politics because the religion was non-doctrinal, focusing on ritual and practice. This structure meant religious practice was a civic duty essential for maintaining the pax deorum (peace with the gods) and, by extension, the prosperity and stability of the Roman state.

Roman religion was non-doctrinal primarily because it was based on practice (orthopraxy) rather than belief (orthodoxy). Its core principles were practical, contractual, and focused on maintaining social order and a favorable relationship with the gods for the good of the state and family.

Did they not teach this in history class at your school; the saying “did the Greeks actually believe in their gods?” Is a quite common phrase amongst historians.

‘Didsh the Greeksh believh in their godsh?’
> https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vpHhPdYYo6U&pp=ygUeU2xhdm9qIHppemVjIHBhcmFkaXggb2YgYmVsaWVm

Leyton Hightower is dead and I'm tired of pretending he's not.

>>24878189
Aye, he may be dead, but what is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.

>>24878189
I find it cooler that someone would be so obsessed with the occult that they haven’t left their house in an entire decade

>>24878189
>man obsessed with magic has mysteriously disappeared and neither he nor his daughter have been seen in public in years
George is doing The Thing On The Doorstep isn't he

>>24878215
Would Leyton really possess his own daughter? I’ve suspected that Serenei did this with Shiera.

>>24867465
bump

>>24878078
If only I could move goalposts like I’d never be wrong.
PS you have to be at least 18 to post on this site

The citadel are heroes because magic is Inherently evil and will always be used for ill means. We must systematically kill every magic user and source of magic for the good of the world

>>24875385
I liked him but I feel like ShowTywin is what BookTywin believes himself to be.

>>24875107
Surprised no one said Roose

>>24874022
>>24874650
It's actually dogshit, in the first novel he forgets who Theon is half way through, he starts out young but gets a random old man voice later on
Accents also just randomly dispersed across characters - all of Catelyn's relatives have accents but she doesn't?

According to the cushing library leaks George's original draft had Arya swearing to kill her mother after she found out she released Jaime.

>>24879426
Um. The Maesters “hate” magic the same way the Church hated magic. They say it is bad but their higher ups hoard it all for themselves and practice it in secret. The Hightowers are occult inclined and they are the true patrons of the Citadel. The Grand Maester in Bloodraven’s time was “as steeped in the occult” as he is/was.

You’re right about magic being sinister though.

>>24871968
What?

How does the rebellion go if the tyrells don't sit on their ass and twiddle their thumbs?

The greatest magic trick of all is perhaps convincing someone that something isn’t magic. Really think about it. Why would a wizard want you to know?

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>>24870730
What are publishers thinking?
>we can save a few thousand bucks, at cost of risking permanent reputational damage and loss of future sales
ASOIAF is one of the biggest fantasy properties, and they still resort to this stuff.
I guess it make sense, in interviews GRRM has said that publishers complain to him that "their art budget is limited". Book publishers seem kinda Jewish.

>>24880231
Georges minion who is responsible for this claims they used no AI, the artist responded in an e-mail that he didn't use any AI, one or both of them are clearly lying and the fact that they don't fess up is embarrassing

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Early life check?

>>24880231
>>24880408
I think OpenAI paid the artist to use AI to torpedo Gurm's lawsuit against them once he's labeled a hypocrite.

https://x.com/javimgol/status/1989425480936952088

They let atheists into the altar these days?

>>24880708
Why the fuck does he go to Iceland and not some actual country. I hate the fat man so much.

>>24880708
It's more that the church in Reykjavik is just the biggest gathering place in the city and they paid to use it for the conference. It's like how schools convert to voting stations in election years.
>>24880721
His inspirations include ancient mythology, and Iceland is where the most well-preserved Nordic writing originates.

>>24880408
That would indicate that the artist simply submitted shitty AI art, and no one even bothered to check it for quality. Lol.

>>24880758
>His inspirations include ancient mythology, and Iceland is where the most well-preserved Nordic writing originates.
Cite three things in Westeros that come from the Eddas. I'll wait.

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>>24880451
>>24880979
It's just hubris.
They thought they would get away with it and didn't even bother to take minimum quality assurance.
They could have very least taken 1.2 seconds to photoshop the cross out.
They also have tweaked those AI drawings, and they might have gotten away with it, but is like nobody gave a fuck.

>all your fans want you to finish project A
>instead you waste all your time on projects B-Z
Why is he like this?

>>24881013
Books were always the side project. Producing shows/movies is way easier no blame falls to you and it’s easier to dictate stage action than tedious prose. He also completely fucked the books and can’t tie it all together and is desperately trying to add lore and backstory to the world so his ending of the main series is better supported.

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>>24880442
LMAO

>>24880993
The title itself is possibly a Norse reference. In the Eddas the world was created when water and fire mixed in a specific way that gave birth to giants, and it's the giants that Odin and his brothers built the world out of. The series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire" in reference to a prophetic dream one of the Targaryen kings had.

Second, the eponymous dream of ice and fire states that the world will end with a long winter and an endless war waged by powerful monsters. This is how Ragnorok was described, a near-endless winter followed by a war.

The Starks famously use dire wolves, a monster referred to in Norse myth and Norse myth features many prominent wolf characters like Fenrir and Garmr.

There is no god but R'hllor, and Stannis is His messenger.

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>>24877333

Somehow there are literally no towns or castles (or bridges) along the entire length of the Green Fork of the trident, despite this being some of the richest farmland in Westeros.

>>24882018
I also like how Inn At Cross Roads is literally just a village with 100 houses.
So...
>it's right to only two fords of the Trident
>it connect four roads
>it's on the banks of one of the most fertile rivers
You'd think King's Landing would be located there; it's like the greatest position they could ask for.

Also, it is strange the Ruby Ford is right after the confluence of three tributaries, considering fords tend not to appear right after confluence

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Look at this sexy beast.

>Be the actual father of dark fantasy.
>Show every how unreliable POVs should be used, with an extra twist to the formula.
>Create characters so compelling multiple video games a few decades later cite you as a direct influence.
>Actually finish the main storyline.
>Come back 18 years later and write a great midquel about events only mentioned in said storyline.
>After another 7 years start another sequel series.

>>24881707
I'm sorry, anon, but the title was taken from a modern poem.

>>24882232
fucking who? am I expected to recognize that man?

>>24882304
That's Glen Cook, author of the "Chronicles of the Black Company."

>>24881931
This post was fact-checked by real Baratheon loyalists
T R U E

>>24881707
Ummm ACTUALLY there was only one giant, Ymir, who got carved up by Odin and his brothers.
Also, Ragnarok starts with fire and catastrophe, then there's the battle, then the great flood and the fimbulwinter comes last.

But fimbulwinter definitely seems like *A* source of inspiration for Gurm.

Not implying anything, just curious: are migratory birds mentioned anywhere in the books? like specifically mentioning they're migrating somewhere for the winter

>>24867465
I want ASOIAF games using nemesis system, about protagonist isekai'd as Viserys III and his female counterpart, Visenya II

>>24883370
It would work well with all the fucking rescurrections.

>>24882304
Not if you're a grrm dickrider

>>24875107
He would make a great Barristan Selmy
The current one doesn't seem like one of the best swordsman of Westeros

I just saw a cool theory where Robb accidentally wargs into Cat when he dies, and now stoneheart has both minds in her head

>>24883518
Why is that cool.

>>24883214
They are not mentioned. And why would they be, George's attention to detail and the world is quite poor, people living on the same continent speak the same language and understand each other well, they don't even have accents or dialects

>>24867465
Victarion is the most based retard
>Says Euron's gifts are poisoned but still uses the dusky woman
>Gives the maester a knife to get vengeance after the femboy got buttraped
>Sacrifices to two gods to get double the blessings
>Kills a dude for laughing at him when he thought the Dothraki Sea was water
>Pops a boner when Asha suggests an alliance cause he thinks she wants to marry him

>>24883396
Plus slime too

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>hate dany
>despise catelyn
>detest sansa
>loathe asha
>disdain brienne
>abhor arianne
>mislike cersei

>>24883903
What about arya?

>>24883930
What about sweet Shireen?

>>24883903
What about Joy Hill?

David Lightbringer is the Graham Hancock of asoiaf

>>24883995
based as fuck?

>>24883995
what does that make Preston?

>>24884147
jimmy corsetti

Who is ASOIAF's equivalent of Flint Dibble?

>>24884169
Elio

>>24884147
gay n bald

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>>24882213
>I also like how Inn At Cross Roads is literally just a village with 100 houses.

Indeed, GRRM has a pop-culture understanding of history (and let's not even get into geography...) because Lord Harroways Town should be the largest and first city in Westeros, as it's literally the best located spot on the continent. Humans (and CotF) aren't stupid, they're going to settle in the best location and every civilization on Earth got its start in a similar location.

>>24884573
>Indeed, GRRM has a pop-culture understanding of history
He doesn't even seem to understand the point of castles.
The whole purpose of castles was to create a bottleneck for attackers. So, a small number of defenders could hold against a large number of enemies.
The bigger the castle is, the more vulnerable it is because the garrison needs to cover more ground.
Meanwhile, GRRM's castles are all gigantic and would require an extensive garrison to be effective.

>>24884693
yeah but huge castles are cool though

>>24884573
>Indeed, GRRM has a pop-culture understanding of history
He doesn't even seem to understand the point of dragons.
The whole purpose of dragons was to create a scary fuckin lizard for attackers. So, a small number of defenders could hold against a large number of enemies.
The bigger the dragon is, the more vulnerable it is because the archers can cover more ground.
Meanwhile, GRRM's dragons are all gay and would require an extensive cock to be fucked.

How do you say "ong no cap fr fr" in the common tongue?

>>24884743
"What would you have me do?"

>>24884573
Does Georgie ever make Westeroish language?

>>24884743
''Mayhaps''

>>24883370
Like during prologue. Viserys serving as Myles the Blackheart’s squire or Visenya training under Gerold the White Bull

Warner Bros games have missed opportunity retooled cancelled Wonder Woman engine into GoT.

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>>24883903
What about Pretty Pia?

>>24883903
>not a word about meli, ygritte, margaery, or lysa

this guy gets it

>>24884991
Number 1 reason Gregor Clegane deserved his slow and painful death.

>>24870061
>prevent another Greystark / Blackfyre
Cat did nothing wrong.

>>24868129
See>>24884880

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>>24867465
GRRM was at that con in Iceland, wasn't he? Did he say anything of interest?

>>24885049
Of course he didn't.

>>24885049
>Don’t forget to catch the latest HBO slop!

>>24877426
About as absurd as the ironborn not being genocided. They were barely even punished at all.

>>24881116
The main project is eating.

>>24885049
I like Ahsoka speak in Icelandic accent

>>24884738
Based reply

>>24885049
He finally confirmed that Melisandre's pubic hair was kissed by fire

>>24885553
It would be more shocking if Melisandre was red everywhere except for where it counts

I just realised something while listening to The Sworn Sword. Egg complains about stupid girls much like any young boy would however I think HBO is going to take this as an opportunity to hint at Egg being gay if not outright have him say it. I think the kid is cute, very fitting for Egg but he is a theater kid, a bit flamboyant, not a flaming homo but still I can see how Hollywood could chew him up and spit him out. Will the incestworshipping Targlovers support a gay kid character and will they ship him with Dunk?

>>24883903
what about that northern wildling cutie that Jon Snow refuses to marry?

>>24868862
It's all mystery boxes all the way down

>>24868862
Realism seem boring

tell me about House Banefort, why do they wear the hood?

>>24885613
He will married Joy for endgame

>>24885011
He improved her.

>>24885553
Mel is clean-shaven, come on now.

>>24884991
The background characters whose grim fates you hear ten chapters after their one appearance have a stronger emotional effect than I'd expect desu

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>>24877219
Brandon the Bad >>>>>>>

>>24886501
>Edderion the Bridegroom
There was a tranny Stark?

beating pretty pia until she has to change her name to "ugly uma"...

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeZ-XSCyB78
Am I just a hick or something? Is this really how "Baratheon" is pronounced? I've been saying it like this https://voca.ro/1jXoLanKjJXG

>>24886906
gurm has some of the worst pronunciations for his made-up words
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSLME0J8gTM&t=17s

>>24886939
"Dothrak eye"

>>24886906
He pronounces it two different ways in that single clip. I guess he doesn't care.

A senior lady on my train this morning was reading A Storm Of Swords. I must admit, I was rather taken back. Generally most women I've met consider the books "sexist" and don't want to read them further than A Game Of Thrones.

>>24872137
Obviously Rhaegar, Viserys, and Dany’s mother

>>24871968
First anons respond is probably brownoids

>>24885049
"i am still working on ciconia phase 2-"
oh sorry wrong author
yes george said:
"i am working on a total rewrite of the dany chapters. actually im hard at work on rewriting every dany chapter *snorts and farts, audience laughs awkwardly*. ehm as a matter of fect i am redoing the entire story. so... *trails off*"

>>24868862
Despite different politic, GRRM and Trump did avoid military drafting

>>24868862
Magic is super boring. It's the worst part of every fantasy story I've read. I have yet to be impressed with any kind of magic in any novel actually.

>>24875830
In theory, I agree. In practice, the crown in Westeros seems to barely do anything, so why bother seceding and starting a conflict just to claim an autonomy that already exists in fact? Actual power in Westeros rests essentially in the hands of the great houses.

>>24887397
problem is the story is titled a song of ice and fire and not a song of thrones and lords so grrm can't escape magic

>>24887392
Lol

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>>24887382
ASOIAF has always been femslop

Do you think the Westerosi accent is American or British?

i just remembered that preston is a muslim

>>24887497
They speak Finnish, the story is just "translated" to English.

>>24887497
The conflict in the story is inspired by the War of the Roses (as per https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Second_Life_Appearance) so I imagine British accents in Westoros.

>>24887382
>>24887459
Women get off on "that".

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>>24884991
>What about Pretty Pia?

HHHNNNGGG!

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>>24880998
>artist who "drew" it swear it is supposed to be a candle, not a cross

>>24887619
I want them speak Gaulish/Gothic revival loan words

Do you think the Baratheon bastardy will be widely believed?

>>24887751
reminder that locking women in a pillory and declaring them free for anyone's use is canon

>>24887755
There are more candle holders in the other pictures. Of all the "evidence" people present this one is the weakest by far. It's not a cross and the zoom-in to remove the rest of the scene is dishonest.

>>24880231
My personal bet is that this is not AI directly but it is "paint by numbers" over AI generations. If you look at the previous big exposed art theft case with Fey Dalton (MTG artist among other things) she'd stolen components of other people's art and mocked it up in PS and then painted over it. This isn't at all rare if you work in concept art and need to create visuals fast, they will unapologetically steal and trace everything.

The big clues to me are the sterile scenes that AI favours plus the generic fantasy that can't stay on model from one gen to the next. Why are we in a dutch village from the 1800s and then in WarCraft land in another picture, why is one background a European landscape painting, and the next forest photography?

As to direct tracing evidence you can see the widely different levels of detail in the very same picture. Look at the old man and donkey picture, the dog face is many times clearer than the rough strokes on the humans. In the fight scene no contact is actually made since the artist doesn't understand the geometry of the scene or what objects intersecting looks like. They just float over each other because that's how they're assembled, along with "expressive face" overpaints.

More than a debate over using AI directly (it's not), this should be a debate over what trash you can present on a commission and not be shitcanned.

>>24887397
The magic in asoiaf isn’t boring it’s only boring on screen. They fucked it.

>>24887901
>my personal bet is that it's not AI but AI

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>>24887751
>>24887879
Great, another fetish.

>>24887839
Anyone who's been in the general proximity of a King's Landing brothel will attest to it, I imagine it's its own ethnicity in the crownlands, a sudden generation of very tall people with pale skin and dark hair.

>>24887497
The mere thought of an American accent in a fantasy setting pisses me off.

>>24888140
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzE7TYwAYq4