Don't leave since you're already here. EditionStubbed >>25058562>What is /wng/ — Web Novel General?A general for readers and authors involved or interested in the growing phenomenon of 'web novels', serialized English fiction posted to websites such as: Royal Road, Webnovel, Scribblehub, Wattpad, Archive of Our Own, Spacebattles, HFY, various personal author websites, and more>Why read web novels?Not for prose or tight editing or deep themes, frankly. As a whole, web novels are infamous for content sprawl and pacing issues. If you enjoy having millions of words to sink your teeth into to get to know the world and characters, though, you may be interested. Keeping up with other readers on a weekly basis to discuss the story's events unfolding is another perk, in the same way discussing an ongoing TV show might be.>Why write web novels?Ease of access & potential for Patreon earnings. Many successful authors gain an audience on their website of choice and funnel their readers into a Patreon. See graphtreon.com/top-patreon-creators/writing for an idea of what some are earning.Also, once an author has earned a fanbase, transitioning into an Amazon self-publishing career is several orders of magnitude easier than starting 'dry'.>/wng/ authors.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vSNZali-jIk2MASsAWVf8N7A8BlSyzPbAFV_BhsA5Ip3SWfMPWKxaXf8Pdb7f0TgFyWis31BzirtPeR/pubhtml>Advice for Noobs!##READ THE FOLLOWING BEFORE ASKING FOR HELP##Running your story like the business it is:www.royalroad.com/forums/thread/116847On writing web serials:alexanderwales.com/how-to-write-a-web-serial/Sanderson's Writing Lectures 2025:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEUh_y1IFZY&list=PLSH_xM-KC3ZvzkfVo_Dls0B5GiE2oMcLY Recommended web novelsrentry.co/d2yvczroAnon's guide to successrentry.co/RRBasicGuideFAQrentry.co/pytefpxn
How do I write comedy like Konsuba. What does that look like in written form without the visual gags?
>>25064231Wouldn't it be easier to just give the LN a try?
>>25064231chrysalis
>>25064234I already have too many things I'm reading right now
>>25064240I doubt that.
>>25064231>how do I write unfunny meme garbageEasy, just have no sense of humor and enjoy smelling your own farts
Beware of chicken is an "I'm actually a cultivation big shot clone"
>>25063107by original language>ChineseNightfallThe Grandmaster StrategistThe Experimental Log of the Crazy Lich>JPSevensFaraway PaladinKenkyo Kenjitsu>KoreanRegressor Instruction ManualDungeon DefenseInfinite RegressorI haven't read enough western webnovel but the entry level ones I read (mother of learning,worms, shadow slave) are all fun and entertaining. though still below eastern webnovels on the overall tier list for me.
>>25064223spacebattles, sufficient velocity or the sietch?
>>25064285>The Grandmaster Strategistbased
How can you tell if a story was written using AI, whether completely or only as an assistant? I've noticed ChatGPT uses way too many em dashes, one every 2 or 3 sentences in average, usually where a simple comma or semicolon would make more sense. I think it believes that em dashes add suspense to the narrative, that they increase expectation in the reader----as they're a somewhat long punctuation mark that frequently leads to a highly anticipated revelation.I've also noticed it religiously adheres to stereotypes based on archetypes like this, but that isn't really news since everyone already know AI isn't creative and just copies whatever it thinks it's popular.
Raled gave Lemrug a discomfiting look: "This time, you have gone too far.”“Aww. Don’t be like that, comrade. It was a fish, nothing more.”“Let me put this in terms you might understand. I spend my meager earnings on sustenance, while you whore yours away. And yet you come here to deprive me of my delight. Where is the justice in that?”“A fish! A goddam fish! You have to move past it.”“And I will once you repay me.”“Oh? Will I now?” Lemrug made a defiant stance.In truth, the dirtbag had no coin with him; that was almost certain. But he did have something of worth.“Your sword, hand it over.”“You really think I—” before Lemrug could finish the sentence, Raled’s sword rubbed against Lemrug’s fat neck. “You can’t take my sword.”“Why?”As if he had any use for it. Raled had never come across a swordman as hopeless as Lemrug. Every piece of equipment was wasted on him. And if the garrison had any self-respect, people like Lemrug would be kept far away from its ranks.“Because I don’t have it. I pawned it months ago.”
>>25064326Why do keep posting this?
>>25064330I haven't posted that part before.
>some guy starts larping in the comments, posting his thoughts on the chapters in mile-long essays while acting a role>pretty funny stuff>next day, he's deleted everythingwhy? If you're gonna sperg out, then commit to it
>>25064312Kino-Anon here.I've used — instead of ; and : because an anon in /wg/ told me to do so.
>>25064231Read the LN, at least the first volume. I prefer the fan-translation, since the official one lost so many quirks by forcing localization.
>>25064289Spacebattles has a lot of people, Sufficient is second, what the heck is sietch?>didn't appear in google searchInteresting.
>>25064312everything's written by AI now unless proven otherwise
>>25064399https://www.the-sietch.com/index.php
>>25064424>php
>>25064441problem?
>>25064108>Ugh, fuck me. I carved out over a million words, built up a respectable following, and then fucking squandered it. I went from posting daily to maybe twice or thrice a week for a year, and then full on hiatus for another year (or coming up on a year next week).I know this feeling completely. The hardest thing is to keep grinding it out once you have a semi-successful story. It's fine for the first month, two months, year, maybe two years, but after a while it just gets harder and harder to keep up.Hope you get through this.
>>25064510After a bunch of talk with people of good character and authority on the matter I decided to go with a partial rewrite and relaunch.
I'm trying to write an isekai, where a character winds up in a game world. I was going to start it the classic way, introducing the protagonist and the basics of the game before an accidental death, but only get this nagging feeling that nobody cares, I'm just losing the zoomers straight in chapter 1 by TELLING, NOT SHOWING and I should do it like FunkyTune and start straight in the other world and explain shit. But the game isn't a MMORPG and I know the setting will just confuse readers if they don't know anything beforehand, or assume wrong. Fuck, why am I trying to be original again? It never works out.
>>25064538>but only get this nagging feeling that nobody caresBecause you're right. Nobody cares about the mechanics until they're invested in the story.>I'm just losing the zoomers straight in chapter 1 by TELLING, NOT SHOWING It's not because of "show, don't tell". It's because we don't care about your carefully crafted game world until you give us a reason to care. Get me invested in the character, show me what the world is like through his eyes and then I'll start caring about it.
>>25064538>But the game isn't a MMORPGWhat genre is the game does it really matter if it's not a MMORPG?half these zoomers have never played one or only played wow so it's not like they get MMORPGS either.All you need to do is kill your protagonist however you want and give him a reason to monologue about how the world works,
>>25064544>show me what the world is like through his eyes Well, that's what it's about
>>25064544Do you prefer first person to third person?
>>25064545It's supposed to be a narrative-driven live service/gacha game like FGO.>give him a reason to monologue about how the world worksI'm trying hard to avoid monologuing. But I also want to establish the MC isn't another autistic gamer, but has a different type of connection and perspective to the game world.
>>25064538I will read your novel as long as there is no harem/sex/romance/teenage drama
>>25064573This. RR readers are right. Enough authors simply cannot write it well that I just avoid it now. The stigma is warranted.
>>25064573Yeah, not doing any of that
>>25064556I'd argue people are more familiar with live service and gacha than MMORPGs these days.You could have him spawn in the woods, panic and get jumped by some goblins.Then have him get saved by someone else and have them explain it to him.it depends how you're doing your game mechanics, is something everyone can do/is born with or something a system grants the MC?
>>25064544>It's not because of "show, don't tell". It's because we don't care about your carefully crafted game world until you give us a reason to care. Get me invested in the character, show me what the world is like through his eyes and then I'll start caring about it.That's what "show, don't tell" mean though.
>>25064606>You could have him spawn in the woods, panic and get jumped by some goblins.This here is the problem. Readers will no doubt be expecting the forest and goblins and will get confused when I'm not doing any of that crap. I really will have to tell what kind of game it is before anything can begin.
>>25064584Great. Post link, I might even subscribe.
>>25064622I'm not sure I really get the problem, is it that your protagonist is not an active combatant in the game or your setting isn't medieval fantasy based.
>>25064622>I really will have to tell what kind of game it is before anything can begin.You're probably overestimating how much info dumping is needed for this. I see no reason you can't do this in a few well placed sentences, or at most a paragraph or two. And then introduce elements organically as they become relevant.
>>25064650>I'm not sure I really get the problemI've explained it like three times now.
Found some great fantasy slop on RR that seems to be flying under the radar because it's not a litrpg. Seems to be inspired mainly by Glen Cook and Ericsson. Definitely binge worthy. https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/46739/touch-o-luck-the-old-realms
>>25064538What would Spectral Soul do in this situation?
>>25064698>flying under the radar because the author wanted to be Gene Wolfe instead of MagicMelody
>>25064108If you've already got a million words just keep writing, forget the early stuff. Maybe do a revision for an amazon launch but otherwise just handwave and lampshade your way to where you want the story to go. At the very least give the story a conclusion, if nothing else. Rocks fall and everyone dies so people can close out the story in their mind.
>>25064698back to sffg with you
>>25064758Destroy the spammer taking their name in vain.
>>25064758What does this line even mean? Like what's the implied joke. And is it just one guy spamming it? I see it so much
Stepped on a Lego: My New Life as a Max Level ARGHmage
>step on a lego>pain is so intense space and time tear and you fall through a portalUnironically a great opening, free for the taking.
>>25064698Impressive to use AI and get a cover that looks like a dogshit bargain bin book with a photo model.
>>250648714/10 cover I would rate it.
Not everyone can be blessed with a cover like FFF-CLASS UNLUCKY ANTAGONIST
>>25064879Kinoman does do pretty good covers. It's a shame about the writing part of it.
>>25064879The dragon guy from last thread had a pretty good one too. Imagine getting outdone by a bunch of nobodies on an Armenian aardvark appreciation forum.
A good cover should convey the content and tone of the book to a viewer at a glance, while also legibly displaying the title from a distance and the author's name (not necessarily from a distance).A viewer of this cover knows instantly if this is something they're interested in or not.>>25064698This cover has poor layout and typography: the title covers part of the man's face and there's plenty of dead space above his head. He could be transposed up the image and the title's typography widened to make it more legible AND not obscure the face. The overall tone of yellow and white isn't bad, but the coloring of the title is suboptimal, even with the black border around the lettering. A darker color would stand out more and improve legibility. Compare to this cover: an overall palette of off-whites, browns, and golds, but the typography is a brighter white that pops against the image. There's also a dash of blue in the apron that contrasts well with the white blouse. And of course the typography doesn't cover anything important, and likely hides some AIhands under the title.
>>25064900that archmage baking cover is bad in my book maybe a 5
>>25064911that might be a good thing given this thread's tastes
>>25064915my issue is that the human figure is too small on it mainly otherwise it would get a 7 I think5 means no plus or minus, it does likely gain if it was larger? but more dominant cover would be then tooI mean it is far above mine in rising stars so who am I to complain or judge
>>25064921To be fair, it has the Archmage Bonus™.
>>25064900For AI slop, the image is really good, but the font choice and typesetting is dogshit, as usual
>>25064921>I mean it is far above mine in rising stars so who am I to complain or judgeIt's also leaning extremely hard into current trends so it's not entirely that the cover is perfect. You make a good point about the size of the human figure: the face is illegible at thumbnail size.
>>25064834See pic related
>>25064933I plan a spin off and am choosing what genre to do right now the three main genres on RR arefrieren like [archmage]primordial hunter likes [hunter/huntress]solo leveling [vr+game character+assassin]subgenres are az healer likes, <3 large chests likes, overlords likesthe ones I figured out as categories so fartend to do a fake hunter right now but the battle healer might lend itself better
>>25064911I rate the speedster cover a 9/10 it is the best out of the entire RS line up, dynamism, human face, action, meta contrast to everybody elseI Awakened A Systemgets the second best I think probably an 8/10 for maximum human face spaceYour Very Own (Pokemon OC)/The E.L.F. Project both get 7/10 for eros (no matter how appropriate it is or not for the pokemon thing to do that with a young character)
>>25064964Just do xianxia with a murderhobo protag. All that fireren shit is just lame af(it was never cool in the first place, just some roastie led fantasy lol), nobody wants it.
>>25064971here the things in question, some subjective judgement by me to put the covers in order>>25064973I tried xianxia they did not bite. They did when I designed to market.Hunter or Healer is my idea so far because I can't into slice of life OP writing somehow.
>>25064964>solo levelingI only watched the anime, if you base your story on events of the 1st season (and maybe the firsf half of the 2nd season) then that's fine but later on he simped out. You obviously don't want that.
>>25064993I'm not thirteen so I got some antipathy to this type of character. Stretching the definition of hunter is my current ideanot a skyrim stealth archer but another cheat build.
>>25064884Cope! It's good, and you ought to read it.
>>25064659And he still hasn't gotten it.
>>25065008Consider creating a character from earth isekaid or reincarnated to another world with full memories of past life, by having full mental capacity at young age and various knowledge from earth his magic ability also increased exponentially.
>>25065018Why not just call it a visual novel? There's a whole subgenre of people being isekai'd into visual novels or otome games as the villain.
>>25065030I'm restricted by the tie in, so the only thing I really can chose is the profession.
>>25065030Is always making the shittiest possible suggestions some kind of not so subtle sabotage you're trying to do or are you genuinely this stupid?
>>25065068Anon you're getting trolled.
>>25065030im watching two animes like that this season, it's just worksboth come from web novels.
>>25064947>Characters spend the entire novel trying to figure out a question>The answer is obviousThis is how you write a good twist, knowing spectral soul is a cultivator is enough to know the answer, but you ponder it anyway and make it more complicated than it needs be.I kowtow to the author, he knows the dao of suspense.
>>25065030Because that's never been done before?
>>25065089Which ones?
>>25065030>MC is a William Luther Pierce level autist>gets isekai’d to a fantasy world>as soon as he is seen as an adult he manages to divide the human race through his racial theories and rhetoric>the hammer of 21st century thinking smashing down upon the 2nd century mind>gives the proper praxis to articulate age old hatreds>entire world gets swallowed up by a giant race war>MC dies without regrets, having received a prophecy from his newly created White God that the White race shall reign supreme
>>25065104It's a formula that works.
>>25065111>Noble Reincarnation: Born Blessed, So I’ll Obtain Ultimate Power>Easygoing Territory Defense by the Optimistic LordBoth isekai'd from earth, memories of past life, full mental capacity, very strong magic.it makes sense I mean how else do you give a child character agency.
>>25065124>a formula that worksErm, we don't do that here. We write niche and unpopular stories and bemoan our lack of success.
>>25065125Are they any good?
what so you call that pre-ai prose style that entirely consists of “punchy” three word sentences and sentence fragments, and was so prominent that most ai writing was trained on it?
>>25065136Millennial ebin blog snark
>>25065136women’s romance novels
>>25065135I'd say they were pretty average. how much you get out of it depends on how much you enjoy the slop hook. They're incredibly formulaic so you either get something you'll enjoy or roll your eyes becasue you've seen it before.
>>25065136There's not name for it but it took over the internet pre-ai because it was made for marketing and all the blogs, social media influencers, article authors and corpo mouthpieces used it. I'd call it Linkedin or Huffpost speech.
>>25064361>I've used — instead of ; and : because an anon in /wg/ told me to do so.they think it adds pretension. A gold leaf of high brow. A sort of well practiced insouciance. Use it for what it was intended for. If someone is talking and you interrupt them to begin talking over them? The person talking stops mid sentence and---
Now I'm curious.Can anyone who has read my book describe my writing with a formal name?
>>25064658This.1. character dies. Do that in third person. No explanations why. Just describe it with clinical detachment. The death ends intro chapter.2. they wake up in the game world. handle it how you want. Try not to info dump yet. First person and from here on out.There's your outline for first two chapters.
>>25065223I kist use either two hyphens or three hyphens for how long I want the pause to beCommas can denote a pause but if you use a comma for a pause you get fags who call your grammar wrong.
>>25065136formal definition: dogshit
>misuse of commasDropped.
>>25065232quirky or campy
>>25065101It's a masterpiece, it's so good that it cannot even be imitated, anyone that attempts it, fails miserably. RI is in a league of its own.
>>25065232trannistic
>>25065268>prescriptivism >in my /wng/©®™?The grammarians cannot be escaped. There is no misuse. It's simply that you disagree with their use.
>>25065261in dialogue, a comma is a short pause and a period is along pause. It need not obey strict grammar rules governing their use. Its so you hear it the way its meant to be heard. the --- is being cut off before you finish. These things outside of dialogue in prose have formal definitions or at least common conventions being obeyed or not obeyed according to rules or practices being followed. but here in winnie land we're not satisfying an english teacher or an in house editor. whatever is common practice on both counts is fine. flow and tone is more important than adherence to rules. If it reads good it is good.
>>25065277>Campy>Campy writing is a theatrical, exaggerated style that intentionally embraces artifice, irony, and absurdity to create a "so bad it's good" charm. It subverts traditional, serious, or high-brow taste by focusing on flamboyant, over-the-top, or kitschy elements. Often used in genre fiction like horror or sci-fi, it aims for fun, satire, and the surrealFair.
>>25065302>in dialogue, a comma is a short pause and a period is along pause.This isn't true at all
>>25065252>1. character dies. Do that in third person. No explanations why. Don't write about things that don't add anything to the story for no reason. If you're going to include the death part, it has to include something necessary to understanding the story and/or the character. Otherwise, cut it.>2. they wake up in the game worldDo not ever, ever, ever start a story with a character waking up. Else, commit quick suicide.
Tel me nawt how tu ryte: i am da riter∆ sum may say [why are you doing this°] tu wich i say~§§§§§"""////)))>£¢€^•√
>>25065337>Do not ever, ever, ever start a story with a character waking up.MLA does this and is infinitely more popular than anything you will ever write
>insisting on the destruction of language0.5 star rating and review
>>25065349I bet you use singular 'they'.
>>25065337Chrono Trigger starts with waking up.
Xe said that xir friends weren't here yet. Where could xey be? Xe had messaged xem yesterday.
>>25065356>mfw you beat the game and it the end opens with the same waking up sequenceLUDO
>>25065346>MLA does thisSo do 99,999,999 other pieces of trash that didn't hit jackpot
>>25065352I don't, actually. If 'he or she' is too clunky, I'll just have the character default to their own sex, and if it's the narrator to 'he.' Do not take me for some writer of poor grammar.
>>25065382b-based
>>25065373that's true for every imaginable story element because 99.999% of stuff failsif multiple extremely popular stories start with the character waking up, why are you framing it like a "you MUST NOT do this"? stop regurgitating buzzfeed advice
>>25065424The issue with it is that it's cliche from overuse. A writer can start his own story however he likes; but he can't complain when people complain that he's overusing cliches and drop before he even gets to the hook.
Does it really matter? The average reader doesn't read much at all. They don't know anything anyway. Being derivative as possible can even help. Avoiding cliches is bad advice. The readers want familiar after all. Same but different is a great way to success.
>>25065252>This.>1. character dies. Do that in third person. No explanations why. Just describe it with clinical detachment. The death ends intro chapter.Good advice>2. they wake up in the game world. handle it how you want. Try not to info dump yet. So far, so goodFirst person and from here on out.WHAT THE FUCK!? WHAT KIND OF RETARDED PIECE OF ADVICE IS THIS? FUCK OFF!!!>>25065337>Do not ever, ever, ever start a story with a character waking up. Else, commit quick suicide.Yeah, start with that. Starting with some retarded 'goddess' dumb speech about why mc got isekaid (she proceeds to give the most idiotic reasons and explanation) is the best way to completely ruin the story.
>>25065468>Starting with some retarded 'goddess' dumb speech about why mc got isekaidI'm not sure how many times I've immediately dropped a story in chapter one because of this reason, but I'm sure it's more than I have the amount of fingers I have in one hand
>>25065452cliches are the lifeblood of web novels...
>>25065460Are you writing for the average reader, or the market on Royal Road (or other webnovel sites) where the people looking for new fiction are reading a LOT of new fictions? Do what you like but don't complain if people don't like it.
People desperately need to stop conflating "I don't like" with "You shouldn't"
>>25065487I think youre right for writing a major smash hit, those tend to have lots of new stuff and ideas going for themThe vast majority of the medium successes are extremely derivative, though. Mostly, readers want more of the same. Why do you think they'll read a 5 million word fiction to begin with?
>>25065468>WHAT THE FUCK!? WHAT KIND OF RETARDED PIECE OF ADVICE IS THIS? FUCK OFF!!!kek I love this thread.
>>25065502Nobody is doing that except you. If you disagree with writing advice presented feel free to share counter-examples where someone broke the rules and it worked. This literally just happened with MLA and starting with the protag waking up.
>>25065322>This isn't true at allactually, it is. Human beings do not speak in prose. They take little and longer pauses. If your characters speak in perfect grammar? That's just weird and uncanny valley. Unless it befits the character. What you're saying is true as a rule in non fiction or technical writing. It doesn't apply to fiction and it damn sure doesn't apply to winnies. wen novels already have a page full of one sentence paragraphs, anon. This isn't english class.
>>25065611Characters do speak in perfect grammar and it does apply to fiction.
how to write a good web novel>pay off>cliff hangerthats it
>>25065666>pay off>one of the hardest aspects of writing that even professional authors fail at
>>25065677they struggle with the setup, but no one expects setup from a web novel.
>>25065631>Characters do speak in perfect grammar and it does apply to fiction.a cop stops to conduct an interview with a witness on the street that saw it happen. a literal crackhead. Yes, of course, how silly of me. That crackhead would speak (dialogue) in perfect english. what the fuck was I thinking. you're not even trying anymore. the fuq out of here with that nonsense.
>>25065695you can't have payoff without setup lol. that's what makes it payoff and not just random events happening, by literal definition
>>25065666Really just write a lit rpg isekai. That's it. That's the golden ticket. Do anything else and it's climbing a sleek metal wall.
I have an idea for a story, a guy is trapped in a time loop trying to escape a secret organization of assassins and err he's lost his memory.what do you guys think
>>25065720>you can't have payoff without setup lol.I'm a level 9million archmage.
>>25065703>That crackhead would speak (dialogue) in perfect english. what the fuck was I thinking. you're not even trying anymore. the fuq out of here with that nonsense.You got stopped and searched by the police? It's ok, anon, happens to the best of us.
>>25065760I'm pretty sure his incoherent rambling and erratic behavior had nothing to do with it.
>>25065757that's called a fun premise, it's not payoffthe term pay off literally means paying off the set up. this is a catastrophically embarrassing argument you're making. bleak
If any of you like to make rom-coms or psycological horror, there's a new Honeyfeed contest you can participate in.https://mhwc.myanimelist.net/202602/I'd have gone for the horror myself, but I'm more interested in Resident Evil type body horror mixed and general monsters than just spooky atmospheres.
>>25065821this is cool but horror entries seem to come with a lot of caveats, not a surprise seeing as who is sponsoring the competition but still a lot of red tape.
>>25065827Yeah, that's what I mean. Can't even have a guy in the midst of mutating shoot himself and fail anyway.
how does the RR market do with merciless, uncompassionate MCs?
>>25065842They love them but you have to signal it first.
>>25064312AI is evolving so rapidly the tell tale signs that existed a year ago may no longer be the same as today. The number one tell for me is not in the text at all, it's the quantity of text. People who use AI are spitting out an ungodly amount of content in an inhuman amount of time. AI sloppers will release 5 fully animated youtube videos every single day, if not more. AI sloppers who started making hentai a year ago will have 4,000+ digital drawings, and they'll release 10-15 high quality images a day. If someone is releasing several books at once, churning out hundreds of pages a month, I think it's safe to say they're AI slopping. People will say em dashes and shit but that doesnt actually proves anything. In fact, I would say a lack of em dashes is the tell now, because everyone using AI knows about the em dash tell and will either tell AI "dont use em dashes" or they'll delete them later. The other day I spotted an obvious AI post on /lit/ with zero em dashes. It was obvious because it broke down its analysis into bullet points in a very sussinct way.
>>25065842They start having melties.
>>25065677They fail at payoffs because they don't try to write payoffs. Instead the authors immediately invalidate the payoff.They do this because they're taught to structure stories as a series of >MC gets what he wants, BUT...The only time they let a payoff stand is when the story ends.
>>25065821Hahaha. The rules for horror are an absolute shit show. >Your horror story can be violent but not too violent, and it can have swears but not too many swears, and we dont want to have torture or anything... Fuck me. If you dont want weidos sending you torture porn then dont request horror submissions. Christ. Anyway, I wouldnt submit to this because I dont want to lock my hard work up in a fucking application.
>>25064312If it's well written it's by AI.
>>25065865>they're taught to structure stories as a series of>The only time they let a payoff stand is when the story ends.You people really need to go back to /wg/ or /sffg/. This is just so obviously not true for the web novel scene. MCs always win and usually win without a drawback. They beat up the bad guy and steal his girl too, then everyone talks about how amazing he is afterwardThis isn't tradpub. GO THE FUCK AWAY. you clearly don't read web novels
>>25065906Dungeon Crawler Carl and He Who Fights With Monsters both have this type of writing. You're right that it's not common in tradpub, but it's not uncommon in western WNs either. Only Chinese cultivation stories seem to be good at this.
>>25065919Disagree about DCC
>>25065919DCC doesn't count for any discussion on what web novels do because it literally didn't do well as a web novel. it only blew up after going tradI only read around a book of HWFWM but there was no walking back of his wins or half-victories, he won and everyone glazed him the whole timeI'm sure there are some exceptions but I responded to an anon who gave a sweeping statement that say <most do this> when most definitely, undeniably don't, and in fact the exact opposite is the standard. even worse, it's advice/structure that's bandied around in tradpub spaces so he's obviously a tourist or refuge
>>25065922DCC absolutely has that kind of "yes BUT" writing. Everything is a long drawn out "oh fug we're fugged now princess" and then "keikaku doori that mechanic that wasn't explained well? I found a loophole, we win" and then the win gets yanked away so hard it's like lucy and the football. It's the same pattern to the point it's almost misery porn despite trying to be a comedy.
>>25065923nta but HWFWM was plot/character driven. there are a few others. mother of learning maybe? they're not THAT rare-- btw i wasnt really following the convo, but this is usually THE distinction so i dove in
>>25065967yeah that has nothing to do with the topic
>>25065965I thought you were talking about the opposite--a series of effortless and unqualified victories. Why would you say that the "yes but" style is not common in tradpub?
>>25065974You've misunderstood.A argued that "yes but" writing is tradpub and doesn't exist in WNB argued the opposite pointing out "yes but" exists in DCC and HWFWMC disagreed with B about DCCD (me) disagreed with C about DCC and explained>>25065974>Why would you say that the "yes but" style is not common in tradpub?The exact opposite of that was the original complaint: that western writing is lousy with "yes but" screenwriting style plotting (left unsaid was that it's because of creative writing courses and a general illiteracy and unfamiliarity with the classics).
>>25065919>Only Chinese cultivation stories seem to be good at this.They've refined it to an artform.
>>25065984>the original complaintthe original complaint doesnt belong in the web novel thread, its about tradpub
Hey guys just got off work.Man doesn't it suck that ALL OF WESTERN WRITING seems to have this pattern of "yes but" storytelling? I see it in tradpub, webnovels, even in screenwriting, all western!It's like everyone took the same creative writing courses and nobody's familiar with other plot structures, likely because they haven't read let alone studied the classics.A lot of webnovels do this and it's annoying; at least when I read japanese WN/LN the MC gets an unqualified win and gets to enjoy it periodically before the next problem arises.
faggot
we hate tension
>>25065984You seem retarded
a web novel is a novel on the web. I can write anything I want as a web novel. Your autistic ramblings will not stop me.
>>25065999I agree and think this post highlights real problem in western story telling, a lot of people like to cite the problems in western story telling a "woke" or certain foibles in morality however I believe the problem lays in rigid structures literature is taught at an academic level that inadvertently poisons authors. This poisoning would be fine is trad publishing wasn't what it is today.So people then take these ideas to web novels and fail, The Japanese WN/LN understand they're not Haruki Murakami, can you say the same for western authors who think they're Tolkien? I think not.
nobody gives a shit if you write off meta retard, the issue is when you come in and say dumb obviously wrong shit about how the web novel scene works or looks like
>be on 4chan, refuge of the contrary and heterodox, who resist the popular ways and sneer at established standards, whatever they may be>GUYS WHY AREN'T YOU DOING WEBNOVELS THE WAY I'M TELLING YOU TO!? THIS IS THE RIGHT AND PROPER WAY. FOLLOW THE ONE TRUTH PATH! EVERYONE I SAY IS OBJECTIVELY CORRECT AND EVIDENCE BASED. WHY DO YOU INSIST ON BEING FOOLS? >The 4channer was deaf to his pleas. Even if all he said was true, it mattered not. For he determined his own path. There could be no other way. Let others fall to conformity. He was a original. Success meant nothing unless it was achieved on his own terms. So, really, who is the tourist here?
>>25064698>Maybe all the negative replies are just cribity crabs>Female lead>Ruling class>Multiple povHard pass
For the sake of readers, tropes, cliches, trends, Ai, I can make use of all of them, and I can also discard them as easily! For readers, writers block cannot stop me, innovation and copycats cannot stop me, even heaven and earth cannot stop me!
>went on hiatus>came back with a rewrite>got to the same point in the story>WENT ON HIATUS AGAINI can't stop laughing.
Rewrites result from a combination of sunk cost fallacy, a delusional belief that they're much better now, and a refusal to accept it's slop.
>>25066054nobody is telling you what to do, retard. nobody is telling you what to thinkreread very slowly:>the issue is when you come in and say dumb obviously wrong shit about how the web novel scene works or looks liketry very hard not to misunderstand and go on an unrelated rant, this time
>>25065883>If it's well written it's by AI.
>>25065827>Horror>But don't put anything in that could disturb people
>>25066104INT was his dump stat
>>25065821>rom-coms or psycological horrorWhy do they always ask for the most retarded-ass genres?
Oh no, Weary Archmage author nuked both the old version and the relaunch...One man's commitment to avoiding personal effort while seeking success became his undoing...Many such cases!
>>25066292Most stories fail, we all already knew that.
>>25066299You know nothing, jimmy
>>25066104Sounds to me like he doesn't know how to go forward with the plot.
>>25066104he came, he got his moment of wisdom where he realized there wasn't really anything to the story, and decided oh well
>>25066104Looking at the cover I immediately know the story is shit (rewrite or not)
>>25066454It basically wanted to be Everybody Loves Large Chests in a post-ELLC world (that is to say on a RR that would not allow ELLC to exist without the grandfathering)
thoughts on multiple chapters using the same name?>Circle I>Circle II>Arrowhead I>Arrowhead II>Arrowhead III>Disagreement Ietc
>>25066467why did RR become so pozed?
>>25066477It's common to all serialized works, prose or not. Other than that I'm indifferent..
>>25066478One of the few cases where I would argue that it didn't, and was legitimately forced to tighten rules on paper by advertisers. The site moderators will readily advise you on what they can technically permit and help you skirt the edges of the rules, and from seeing some people involved with the site speak on the matter, I got the impression they don't like censorship either.
>>25066487Censoring for profit is no better.
>>25066477Lazy, undescriptive, meaningless. The title is practically free ad space and you just wipe your ass with it
>>25066497They are a business, not a charity.
>>25066487>I got the impression they don't like censorship either.Well, you got that wrong. They've been repeatedly and publicly saying they don't want to see the site turn into an erotica hub. There is no fucking "censorship," sex isn't even prohibited. They just want to prioritize fantasy/adventure, and for all ages, not just coomers.
Azarinth Healer book 6 out on z-lib
>>25066500They shouldn't be either.
>>25066510is it heterosexual and based
>>25066504Almost every site has strong censorship and prohibitions, including the one we're on right now.
>>25066516The name you're looking for is "terms of service"
>>25066504This is one specific type of censorship and I think it's fair. A novel that HAS SEX IN IT won't have issues even with the current rules. Seriously, think about the amount of smut you would have to write to make up 10% of it. I genuinely considered trying to hit that goal. But I can't.Think in webserial length terms. Anything that isn't outright smut won't even come close to meeting that criterium. Even fanfics I've read that advertised being smutfics didn't meet that criterium.Regardless, there is a difference between "sex appeal" and "smut." It bewilders me that the ability to perceive any sort of gradient between these two things has been lost among so many westerners.I say all this with the caveat that I believe censorship is bad, but at the same time, you go to webnovel and you tell me you want the meta to be Futa Demoness Breeding System.
Something I've noticed in China is that many genres can be popular and successful in the world of web fiction: romance, police procedurals, medical dramas, women scheming against each other (could be concubines in the imperial harem or cutthroat corporate executives in the workplace), business management, rags to riches, etc. Some become wildly popular and get C-drama adaptations; my friend was telling me about watching a tearjerker adapted from a web novel where a female journalist goes to some fictional war-torn country with a bunch of other volunteers and her eventual boyfriend keeps getting tortured by terrorists. On the other hand, most if not all successful web fiction in The West seems to be litrpg/progfan etc. Even relatively marketable ideas don't seem to gel with web fic readers over here, let alone some hard sell miseryporn like I just mentioned.What are /wng/'s thoughts on this? I don't know about the Korean/Japanese markets so I'd be interested in hearing about those too
>>25066517Yeah, that's "let me tell you what you're allowed to do", in other words, censorship. It's just like when I'm over at somebody's house and they say "Please don't use that language around my children." They're trying to censor me. >>25066520Blue boards shouldn't exist.
>>25066523China is distorted in that everything has to be officially supported by the government to be traditionally published. Everything else has to be published online by the author as web fiction.
>>25066467royal road had blue core lol
My favorite jewish transgender lawyer webnovel revealed another transgender lawyer character
>site that has near zero staff and only one of them does content moderation for stories and everything else is done by AI has difficulties with quality control and rule violations in general
>>25066545pot found in kitchen
>>25066510>Femc No thanks
>>25066520This. The novel that has sex in it won't be censored but a novel without sex (for example a strong male mc going on quest for immortality and rejecting all wordly desires) will immediately be labeled as incel, fascist, misogynistic etc and removed from the site completely.This why rr is shit.
>>25066579You had me until the retarded pivot into FangYuan-ismI've read several novels that are basically this on RR not too long ago, stop being retarded
>>25066523Chinese make several high quality (expensive) donghuas and that is partly due to government funding, so while I hate ccp for obvious reasons, the fact that they are pouring huge amounts of money into animation production make me hate them just slightly less (also at the same time japanese are releasing literal powerpoint tier animes because there is literally no money to make anime).
>>25066523There's just a lot of Chinese peopleIn League of Legends there's NA/EU/KR/LATAM servers etc. In China they had 29 regional servers with more players on each of them than the whole of NA.They can write all kinds of shit and get an bigger audience than what one of us could expect to get on RR.
>>25066589Post the links. I personally have not seen any novels on RR that had no romance/sex in them and focused solely on lead character and his goals and ambitions.
>>25066523I think it's because of a difference in demographics. The CCP has put restrictions on video games and that combined with their competitive academic system and tiger parenting makes reading web fiction one of the few socially approved forms of entertainment for the youth. Whatever is popular with the youth of any culture quickly becomes the focus of the zeitgeist and soon becomes popular with everyone.Compare that with the west where the readers are usually reading as a form of escapism/wish fulfilment which is why you'll see litrpg/progfan being popular amongst men and romance being popular amongst women. So you have to appeal to those fantasies otherwise you won't find readers.
>>25066610Yes chinese stories are not about wishfullfillment. Can you chinese liars please stop being nationalist here. Wumao.
Quite literally nobody (not one) here knows what the fuck they're talking about or what's going on out there
>>25066662Seems like a place you don't belong then.
>>25066666
>>25066610You clearly know nothing about chinese entertainment.
>>25066523English is a much more widely spoken language which means there's a higher volume of literary works released in it so english speakers need to be a lot more selective about what they're looking for unless they want to be completely overwhelmed by possible choices, which means they just stick to what they know for a fact they will enjoy.
>>25066745that logic doesn't parse for me. high volume and availability should mean a wider variety of successful works, not the reverse
>>25066745>English is a much more widely spoken languageESLs don't necessarily read English books and EFLs usually don't read at all.
>>25066798My comment section proves you wrong.
>>25066800How so?
How do you get into top 10 of trending with 1 follower lol?
>>25066842you have strange filters on probably, not what my trending page looks like
>>25066852Weird glitch, the list looks different after I refreshed. I don't use any filters. Maybe the admins were testing some shit
>>25066545Bro I was saving that chapter for today, you've actually spoiled me I've been expecting this for some time, so it's not too bad but I'm hoping it's a third character and not the semi-grooming situation.
>>25066842AI or retarded. Who the fuck dumps 112 chapters that fast otherwise?>How do you get into top 10 of trending with 1 follower lolBest performing entry in Portuguese probably.
>start a new story>rewrite the first few chapters over and over>it just doesn't feel fun, I can't get it right>leave it for a while>get back to it this week>it's actually fucking funwe're so back bros
>>25067111Based, good job anon.>know where I want the story to go>not sure how to get there from the beginning where I focused most of my effort>spend yesterday outlining but not quite there>decide to sleep on it>wake up>finish the outline>even write a chapterWe're all gonna make it.
If you feel insecure about your work, it helps to go read some of that absolutely insipid bilge that gets posted at RR and which still receives compliments
Bros, what are you up to?
>>25066867sorry about that.it annoys me on several levels that this was the path taken.
>>25066545>>25066867Oh god it was exactly as cringe as expected. I wish there was any other fantasy lawyer story. Why do they all have to be so cringe?
>>25067302Agreed. No worries. The foreshadowing and setup were so obvious that once it started there were no mysteries, just the trainwreck.
>>25067309Someone just needs to write something like pic related. A One Punch Man type story where it focuses less on the wizard and more on the guy who has to deal with the antics and gets put in danger constantly.
Realized any new WN I pick up (usually because judging by cover and title, I don't read the blurb very closely) has exactly 3 sentences to convince me to read to the end of the first chapter. I don't think I was doing it consciously, but I definitely have definitely lost interest immediately if the first three lines suck. On the other hand if I get past that, it's probably like 20 pages or so to keep me in, and if I got past the first volume's worth I'm probably never going to drop it.
>>25067363The first sentences mean nothing. Everyone loads their absolute best in the opening paragraph. Then the rest of the chapter (and the whole story) is just aimless, pointless yapping between a handful of "badass scenes".
>>25067383>Then the rest of the chapter (and the whole story) is just aimless, pointless yapping between a handful of "badass scenes".unironically, recs for this? yapping and banter in between hype scenes is the ideal sloppa story
I have to add a new character into my story and now my outline is almost entirely useless. I'm completely stuck on writing the next few chapters.
>>25067356To write a convincing lawyer in a somewhat realistic legal setting is too hard. One would need a real law education and experience in the field to write such a story. 99.9% of webnovel authors just do not have required skills, experience and knowledge to write something like this.
>>25067458The virgin outliner VS. the Chad Architect
>>25067466I don't know what architect means in this concept. Outlining has definitely been a mixed bag for me currently because now I have to write outside of it and am clueless.
>>25067486To create such a strong worldbuilding that you don't even need to write anymore, just open a window over your world and report what is happening.For example, why do you add those characters? To add fuel to your story, or did you need them to cover a lack of something?
>>25067490That is not how story telling works.
>>25064223How do you make a name for your book?
>>25067356That's Trigun. Two insurance ladies try to track down an outlaw because he causes so much damage wherever he goes. They find him and he turns out to be a goofy moron.
>>25067490My story isn't based on the worldbuilding, it's character driven. I needed to give one of my main protagonists a guardian for anything to make sense and now I have to do something with him for any sort of connection to the reader.
>>25067496You put an archmage in it and make them Op.
>>25067492>>25067498Why are you forcing your character to do something when you can just create a path for him where each side is blocked by tall walls that he will never be able to climb?
>>25067496Don't use any lame female centric words in the title.
>>25067496Crows and rabbits are common sights in my neighborhood.
>>25067504I have the (regional) map already planned if that's what you're asking. It helps in a general outline of a story but there is explicitly no adventuring going around and now I need to think of a way to get the guardian to intervene. I basically have to make a sidequest to make them embarking on the main quest actually believable.
>>25067496Copy light novel titles >My Deredere Sister is the Grimm Reaper and She's in Love with Me?!?!
>>25067383holy projection.
>>25067515You misunderstand me.I've created an info-pic to help you all understand.
>>25067534Cringe af
>>25067558u cringe
>>25067534Sounds like you need an extremely linear map for that to work out. There are plot reasons as to why people travel places and some roadblocks for others but a simple town in a normal place provides you with so many different avenues to explore.
>>25067578There are 25 missions available on the guild board.MC’s thoughts:>Exclude the ones that are way above my level.>Exclude the ones I don’t like or have already completed.>Exclude the ones that don’t pay much.>Exclude the ones my party doesn’t want to do.You’re left with only a few possible options despite the apparent wide array of possibilities. If you can narrow it down to just one, that would be perfect.
>>25067462Just use the Pheonix Wright method of doing what sounds realistic enough to pass and make for a great story.>>25067497And Trigun is genuinely great. Really just proves that the concept is a solid one.
>>25067534Get a load of this guy writing his plot like this.
>>25067585I don't narrow it to one conclusion, but I could have them go to a less well off area causing the rise of smugglers or something to force a meetup. Now to demonstrate that environment without a thousand overly detailed paragraphs.
>>25067612Nice start, but your second comment is wrong.If in your previous chapters, if you MC showed a preference for an X thing, it would be weird for him to do Z.Aka, chapter after chapter, you build expectations in the readers and suddenly violate them without carefully creating the right setting first (for at least a dozen chapters) that would be deadly.>>25067604Yeah, it's the second image, but you can't actually see the spiky death zones despite their presence.
>>25067496>“Then what we will soon see will become a game of cosmic titans,” Isaac said. “And Azincourt will be the grand overture to a new war.”
>>25067534What the fuck is that?
>>25067629schizophrenia
>>25067619I'm at the beginning and only 2 characters have joined thus far, and even then it's because one of them insisted on having a relax day. I need something for them to do that leads to a fanciful introduction to the upcoming members.
at this point i can’t tell if Kino-man’s genuinely retarded or if some anon has made it a tradition to besmirch his name by acting like a retard about his work
>>25067651He has always been retarded.Have you ever heard the story of the Melty of '25? It's not a story the cabal would tell you.
>>25067666What happened to him?
>>25067666i was there when it happened
>>25067666>>25067701qrd?
>>25067705had to have been there newbie
Dungeon Diver: Stealing A Monster’s Power ended several days ago on chapter 1111 after daily posting from day one.One of the great sloppers of our time is taking a break for a while before (maybe) coming back to make more content.
>>25067715That's the only big hit story I've seen under 4 stars. It must be god awful.
>>25067715Here's his endnote
>>25067705someone rated his story a one star and he proceeded to sperg out, reviewbomb that person, call them tranny, etc.he did something else that caused our /wng/ pastebin to be wiped though i forgot what it was exactly
>>25067718Quality-wise I'd say there's a lot of flaws but it has soul and charm and good progression and a proactive protagonist. The rating is fair (which is rare on RR where ratings are usually inflated).
>>25067666What story? Was that when /wng/ was constantly being deleted? Tbh I can't remember the details, /wng/ split off /wg/ then /wg/ got mad for some reason
>>25067728/wng/‘s cycle of deletion was caused by the chinkspammer trying to hijack /wng/ for the purpose of solely discussing chinkslopas subversive as the culture whose work he enjoys
>>25067715Red flags just looking at the cover. Why is RR so shit, why...
>>25067738You don't like peak edgy?
>>25067715>give first chapter a try>Ahhhh man, is it the first of the month already?? I grab my black jeans with rips in the knees off the foot of my bed and put them on. I couldn't find the shirt I was wearing last night so decided I'd look for it later.I can't stand this casual person persona style.
Which cover do I use for my JJK fanfic? Also can I make paterons on RR for fanfics? I'm probably writing it either way, but it'd be nice to know how much of a backlog I'll need
>>25067718any story longer than a specific length sinks
>>25067752>Some kind of traditional nu male reincarnated into what seems like a transvestite villain and a princess/goddess elf queen noble who secretly is le quirky adventurer>Good vs evil battle, they learn to respect each other, soon after they develop feeling for each other, shitty ya romance ensues
>>25067757Right for RR, left for other sites
>>25067757You can make a Patreon but don't advertise it on RR. They don't want to be dragged in if you get lawyered. And yes this works, just look at Seras.
>>25067724>i forgot what it was exactlyHe contacted RR admins and posted the /wng/ pastebin and said they were all 4chan trolls conspiring to rate his story poorly. Naturally no one wanted to catch backlash for this so most people immediately wanted off the list on the off chance they got shit flung at them.
I want to make a web novel where instead of a early 20's the protagonist is either a middle aged man or a cute boy.do you think this will work on rr?
>>25067807make the protag a cute boy but he crossdresses and the middle aged man is his love interest
>>25067807Middle aged man protagonist is offensive and against RR TOS.
>>25067757I know an author who got destroyed after writing JJK fanfic and monetizing it.The story starts off strong, but over time it becomes increasingly generic. It honestly feels like the author may have been worn down by certain part of JJK fandom, who strongly self-insert into the fic's mc. I say this because both the MC’s characterization and the plot gradually shift into something that resembles a standard reader-insert story.I’m hesitant to read the discussion threads, because if that change in direction was driven by readers pressure, that’s genuinely concerning.
>>25067823I don't get the appeal of JJK. Fanfictions exist when you want two people with actual chemistry to get together. Unless it's yaoi there isn't a single interesting woman in there.
JJK is shit. Imagine Naruto but worse.
>>25067841>I don't get the appeal of JJKThis.I don't think I even finished watching the first season. Not sure why the show is so popular.
>>25067841>>25067850Flashy battles, interesting powers, hype, and running agendas on characters. That's it
>>25067841Have you ever read hunter x hunter?
>>25066798They do if they read fantasy or scifi, you have to be at least around Poland size to have a scene in those genres in the local language.
>>25067841 I mostly just wanted to write something using the story's power system and a few other ideas. The plan for the story is basically "what if the culling games happened in America?" and I wanted to have a bunch of stupid alt-history JJK memes like MLK coming back as a reincarated sorcerer and shit. I feel like I'm probably fucking myself though since all alot of people want to see OG characters interact and I don't really plan on using them
Thought about doing a tie in sequel for my first story.First issue I flagged is not enough protagonist agency, too many real losses, too much realistic world restricting their actions.Now I think about scrapping chapter one and premise because its not self inserty enough.Chinese stories got success with unrealistic competence porn but then I would have make the character stomp even more than I already plan...Moving in circles right now.
>>25067841There's barely been any popular ongoing battle shounen that don't need 1000+ chapters of backreading
>>25067841Do people not try and write fan fictions to deal with shit endings?actually never mind from a web novel perspective it's a good ending.
>>25067866What I worked on was initially a fanfiction that I realized would work better and given how I have an actual readerbase now I can tell it was for the better. Also, Nintendo sucks.>>25067857No but I've been recommended it because I like Dragon Ball. (The original, Z was okay)
>>25067904I forgot that's why people write fanfics because every series that has had a shit ending I've considered too shit to even consider reading fanfiction of.
How long should a single volume be? Is it just a whole arc?
>>25067916for conventional books it should probably be 100k words?I think in arcs, sequels because I'm not at that level.Currently it is all about how to get through the algo, to the reader and get them to like what I produce.
>>25067651Kinoman's story. Basically a long time try-hard big-effort WN author. The general consensus is more perspiration than inspiration. He has a Joe Dirt sort of appeal. You either like picking on him and his work. Or you admire his persistence and upbeat attitude. More lean towards the former than the latter. Imagine that one quiet kid that insists on hanging out with the cool kids in school. He's guaranteed to catch hell. That's him. The melty of '25. Its almost understandable how it happened. Its not hard to imagine some anon went and 1 starred him. More out of him being who he was than out of any real deserved review. No secret we have some spiteful crabs here. He's harmless. I hope he ends up selling some KU books, more power to him. I think if he sunk his teeth into a smaller more manageable project he'd have more of a chance. Just like he's trying to do something bigger than LOTR and Dune put together, when he probably should have mastered the art of the solo paperback first. But hey that's his choice.
>>25067534Its scary but I understand what he's saying with his image and the virgin/chad meme language. Its true. A lot of WN authors have a very linear story line, from A to Z. There's one plot twist/reveal in the middle somewhere. A lot of juvenile comic book hero bullshit carries the self insert story. He's a fan of the big complicated plot, is all its saying.
>>25067534So this is how you write a good story, shit more of you guys need to put your advice in picture form.
>>25067534In my story, the latter part of the second volume (Almost done) and much of what I have planned for the third is characters reactions to architect style storytelling.
>>25067942Bro, the plot can be very simple because these blue walls lie in the background, and the reader rarely catches a glimpse of them.
>>25067632If a princess needs to join the team, I'm sure MC is going to hear some news about there being a some sort of battle in a castle.If a fisherman is going to join, I'm sure there's a sea monster that has eaten him and is ready to meet MC once he gets eaten too.
>My story is character-driven, but I make it where the character has no choice. There's only one path he can take.But then the character has no agency. It's an illusion of free will.>Yes, as the author I am a god who allows him to believe that he has choice, but he does not. He shall always make correct decision, because he is fully rational and has the required knowledge.Why not allow there to be multiple choices? >That is unacceptable to both me and my audience. That allows for uncertainty, speculation, and doubt. Unless the story is fully controlled and managed it will fall apart. There is no other way.
>>25067966Your characters' reactions to...inflation rate reach 8%?>>25067987Wrong.I'm a fair God, and the blue walls were built according to MC's free will.Instead of saying: MC goes from A to B.I say: Mc was born in A, but he longed for B all his life, and one day, after enduring X, meeting Y, and killing Z, he reached his dream.
>>25067983I'm doing the former, except they're doing the recruiting. Also nobody recognizes her outside of the nobility. I now have to write a nobleman in charge of protecting the prince meeting her.
>>25067993I'm sure that not all princes are spoiled, but they are eccentric in at least something, no doubt about it.Prince: You golem, my ancestor has fought the evil, and I want to do that too---get me to the plebian village.
>>25067992Their reactions to learning that someone has been behind every event that shaped into the role they have. Unsurprisingly, the antagonist doesn't take it very well.
>>25067997Let me be clear.The blue walls are the economic, social, and historical conditions that led this mastermind to create, pursue, and ultimately succeed with this plan in the first place, and this goes back hundreds of years before he was even born.No dude can wake up a day and say: you know what? Today, I'm taking over the world.Also, post your story.
>>25067996He's idealistic, ambitious, and extremely stubborn, just like her sister. Without either of their supporters they would be dead in 5 seconds. Originally the prince was just supposed to be a peasant but I couldn't justify his abilities or the amount of training he got so now I have to make visiting a lesser off village turn into a meaningful sidequest.
>>25068003Interesting.First of all, how big is your world? You might not know this, but in the Middle Ages, the city of Florence alone could field more Knights than the Holy Roman Emperor due to its dynamic social ladder and economic pool.What if this plebian hailed from a city like that?
>>25067950He is wrong.
>>25068010>>25068003You might have hear about this plebian knight.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante_Alighieri
>>25068012
>>25068012>>25068016The basis is wrong from the start.WHY DOES HE WANT TO REACH B?By answering this question, he either falls into Outliner or Architect.
>>25067934are you seriously an apologetic for probably the most malicious thing to have happened in /wng/‘s history?
>>25068023Was it one, one star?
>>25068023Follows your heart ain't malicious.
>>25064285surprisingly solid list for a frognigger even if Joy of Life is the better Mao Ni novel.
>>25068000Checked. And yeah, that's what I'm talking about. The Author in this wants to tell a specific story, so he has to set up everything to make the protagonist and his supporting cast have the right traits and mindsets. Religion, historical misunderstandings, and seemingly innocuous things like someone's first book are just some of the ways this is done.>Also, post your story.The Dragon and The Author. It's in the /wng/ author spreadsheet.
>>25068040You get it.>The Dragon and the Author.I'm gonna check it after I finish polishing the first volume of my story.Is it good?
>setting has overly convenient worldbuildingTake the slop pill. Just do things the easy way. Look at this: it practically writes itself.>good guys good>bad guys bad
>>25068051This is simple only on the surface.The reality is that bees have become so successful that other insects could survive just by hunting them, and evolution has honed these traits.
>>25068051Also, the good-and-bad dichotomy exists only because Free Will exists.Nature can't be evil.
>>25068049Obviously I'm going to think it is. Though, I still need to get around to revising more of the earlier chapters since they were made when I was starting out. I took care of the first four, so the rest should be at least tolerable for the moment.
>>25068059Nice. Remember to post here once you've fixed them.
>>25068010I have the backstory of the prince figured out, and he very much needs to be in the capital for the training he receives. Still that is interesting to note. The guardian for the prince could be in charge of rallying up the knights in that small area that are too scared to get involved with the capital. That's helpful for the future chapters after a sidequest has occurred. Now I just need to figure out the current chapter.
>>25068056Based. If your writings are also about that then we might have a hive mind. Pun intended.
>>25068062Will do!
>>25068051who do you steal from?
>>25068023what's he hurting. not a damn thing. Quite frankly he's less annoying than some of the crabs here. I'd take ten more kinoman's to get rid of one of those assholes. We'd be better off on that exchange rate, too. Less hell and confusion in the general.
>>25067872I'm happy now with my first chapter in my new project. Will get some work done on it but am happy now.Corrected for protagonist agency. (starts in her head not pure media res being victim of anothers plot, brags in her mind about them being noobs)Added dramatic elements. (rising tension with rising numbers)Decided to end on a major cliffhanger. (combat starts off)I had a bounce rate on chapter 1->2 of 30% in my prior project I want to see if I can reduce it.
>>25067466I saw this ad in the wild not long ago but I was banned at the time for uh... Explaining another post?
>>25068088anime, homer, dante, vague recollections of what I've heard about moby dick and les mis and other stuff I haven't read, RR litrpgs and japanese light novels.
>>25068091getting diagnosed as esl is not crab behavior, it's critique.
is 3k words too long for a chapter 1?
>>25068109yes you should have no more than 3 words
>>25068025>>25068028>>25068091i’d argue deliberately trying to screw over all present and future anons on the /wng/ list and blocking them from posting on RR to be extremely maliciousas stated by chinese WNs, “blocking one’s Dao is an emnity equivalent to killing one’s parents”.
>>25067970Okay. I'll buy that. Any more I start with a simple enough premise/conflict. The seeming complexity is just the things that have to be gone through to get to point B. But I'm working with established characters I know inside and out. When I write a cold start, character wise. I feel like I need more.
>>25068102speaki my beloved
>>25068116https://warosu.org/lit/thread/24547354Found it btwStarts in this thread and goes on for several more, also around that time the thread detective figured out FFF was the gongposter shitting on everyone else's work
>>25068116was it one one star rating?
>>25068116>i’d argue deliberately trying to screw over all present and future anons on the /wng/ list and blocking them from posting on RR to be extremely maliciouspoint taken. counter point. some crabs go out of their way to fuck with him. Like he was supposed to be pleased. They kept poking him to get a reaction and they got it. I don't understand why we cant all go along to get along. have some reasonable fun then drop it.
The truth is whatever is believed. It doesn't matter if the narrative is false at best and slanderous at worst. Defame and assassinate their character. Maybe the target will be cancelled. Reply to yourself to get the momentum going. Hope that the Internet Hate looks favorably upon your cause.
>>25068127>Absolute snake that maliciously shitposts in /wg/ and /wg/ for months while anonymous and tries to keep a wholesome chungus persona for his author name because he knows he'll face actual consequences if he doesn't>Mask falls off when he tries to get all other /wng/ nuked from RR and his two personas are connected because he's incapable of not using Ruskie ESLisms>Somehow you believe he's a victimHe unironically deserves far worse.
>>25068120Octocrank did nothing wrong.>>25068127He was and still is being extremely annoying and borderline spamming. He earned that review and all the anons calling him out in /wng/.
>>25068127Sad to see TINA determined to go down with KINO-MAN.
>>25068120Going back to that, why don't we have threadly goals? That seemed like a neat idea.
>>25068137Basically nobody did em. Maybe three people actually hit the goal each day, or even made an attempt, and most anons didn't even try.Many people just want the social clout of "being an author" without the hard work of "typing a thousand words a day."
>>25068010Thank you for telling me about the knights bit. I still have a bit to go before I can finish this upcoming chapter but this has helped me also explain why the town they're going to is relatively more stable compared to others.
>>25068137I have to present things to editors every week so a chapter a week is my goal. It doesn't look like I'm the norm here so it wouldn't shock me if it wasn't commonly met.
>>25068152>>25068156That's sad. I feel like it does help get the ball rolling when you have something you are working towards with others doing the same thing. Maybe lowering the bar to something like 500 words or having some different goals now and again would be fine.
for a rough draft, I'm good for 1k to 5k regularly per day when I'm writing. In rare cases I hit 10k, but that's hardly the normal. I guess 5k if I include going back over it for a rough proof/edit pass. Editing can take longer than the writing itself.
>>25068182Editing can be a huge pain the ass but I always find that it's worth it. Not necessarily in terms of making content to post, but in terms of actually making the writing and narrative good.
>>25068191I'm extremely glad I no longer have to self edit. I legitimately think that's one of the hardest parts of making it in the industry.
>>25068134>Sad to see TINA determined to go down with KINO-MAN.sad to see your poor attitude. its for shit.
>taking advice from the resident lolcow spammer NGMI
How do you handle the stream of nitpicking nerds?I think I responded too much to them.
>>25068195I'd have to agree. I couldn't imagine actually having an engaged editor.
We have been blessed with another chapter of The Art. I can't wait to read the continuation of the cliff hanger in a month.
>>25068195Funny, I think the editing part is both easier and more enjoyable than the writing part. Producing from thin air is difficult, and cleaning something up is simple to me. Or do you mean dev edits? I mean line or chapter level at most.
>>25068072Based, send your book.>>25068080Chad.>>25068117Remember this rule---a secondary character does not exist thanks to the MC. He had a life and millions of encounters before you wrote about him.>>25068154Another rule---if your worldbuilding can't explain it, just expand it.>>25068202A lolcow makes you laugh. I gave a brain aneurysm to that dude.
>>25068205I don't, simply because nobody reads my stuff.
>>25068205You get what you feed.Ignoring them is best. Eventually they'll get bored and bother some other author.
>>25068205I completely ignore them because otherwise I'll start calling them retarded and that's not a good look.
>>25068205I generally enjoy them and like responding to them.
>>25068216Had that issue as well. I gave up my 100k written book from last year. Then launched 4 other stories all failures with various effort by me.Fifth I did to market, got 10 followers day one because it was designed to market. Pure wishfullfillment formulaic from the ground up. Replicated 10 followers day one from a cold account just from hook and cover since.Others might do better that is the best I achieved so far on launch. Fifth story is on RS right now but failed to gain much from it due to execution failures.
>>25068209Not sure what dev editing means in this context. I write out plot lines and maps in advance so writing isn't too difficult as long as I can manage to do it. Of course, when I'm told by an editor to change something or add something to get actual readers it requires some work, but that requires an editor to tell me in the first place.Editing is easy when it comes to making things narratively cohesive, so easy that it makes you second guess yourself constantly. Even worse, you don't know if your edits are actually going to increase your audience or not.
>>25068221>>25068220I do it for two weeks now. It gets too much and I realized that giving them feedback is hurting me and the story.Most often it is not a good faith or constructive critique just nerd one upsmanship.
>>25068224grim
>>25068212>Another rule---if your worldbuilding can't explain it, just expand it.My world is loosely historical so most of my worldbuilding expands the more I read. The hardest bits is actually simplifying things so that way the story is comprehensible and not just something that only the most devout history addicts will read.
>>25068205I give them rep and make a correction if it's needed, like forgetting a period or something. If it's more in depth and I agree, I respond to it and thank them for their correction. If it's more in depth and I don't agree with it, I tell them why and thank them for their help anyway. If they have an attitude, I simply don't give them any attention.
>>25068240It is allot of "I woulda", the protagonist "shoulda".
>>25068243Oh, it's that kind of nitpicking. Yeah, just ignore them. Respond if they actually do put some effort into their comments though. If you notice one getting really uppity and negative, just block him so he can't tank your rating.
>>25068257Thanks for the advice. I'm just tired because it was 7 people or something over the past week. One was holding me accountable for what all writers do. They didn't even engage with me specific but were pontificating about their expertise.Another was all snark after I didn't alter some number they found implausible. I checked it is plausible just at the upper boundary.
Beware of Chicken never wrote to market. How about that, huh?
>>25068268He copied a chinese story that was already a mega hit and added some flavor to it.
>>25068238Speaking of which I think the phenomena brought about here >>25068010 seems to be an HRE exclusive thing and my region is akin to eastern Europe which this wasn't prominent.
>>25068271Chinese and Western readers have entirely different tastes. How about that, huh?
>>25068271mentioned it yesterday "I'm actually a cultivation bigshot" by Kinoshita NakuiI thought that was common knowledge
>>25068274he altered the tone and morality of it, made it palatable to a western audience
>>25068238Remember that a world-building detail is an accepted fact in your world. Things happened, but people remember them in different ways.A history-book presentation might be boring, but what about something like:“Yeah, I remember that piece of shit. King Cuck the Third invaded my city, killed my grandpa, and stole my family's chickens. And why did he do that? Because his bitch of a wife couldn’t spend a single night with the same dress, or the same man.”
>>25068284"REPEAT THIS ABOUT KING KEK AND I WANT A DUEL TO THE DEATH! MY FATHER SERVED UNDER HIM YOU COWARD!"
>>25068273A harsher climate requires harsher rulers and rules to ensure production quotas are met.A bad year in Italy means losing some money; a bad year in Russia can mean thousands of deaths from starvation.This forges the unique characteristics of a culture.
>>25068290So, your father would have been pretty young in that moment, didn't he? Well, if you calling your dear king cuck makes you mad, then you should first slay your father, who has cucked him together with his little friends the Queen loved to collect from village to village.
>>25068291Germany only united when napoleon forced it. Britain then in turn was forced to address germany in the heart of europe making empire impossible.Thus the two world wars happened because the french revolution happened because peasant had too much to eat and read.Because german princes didn't want to pay money to the pope and funded the protestant reformation which created a massive book market.That lead to industrial scale printing
>>25068291Some areas are mediterranean with a part of the region potentially being mostly a desert. So I guess the whole region would be relatively okay a first few months into a bad war? So I would assume people would be in their storage phase but not necessarily in physical danger.
>>25068243>>25068265If the commenter is being toxic about it, yeah just ignore or block.But that kind of commenter backseat quarterbacking seems to be semi-common. It's just how some people enjoy the story, saying "oh MC better do this" [because it's a good idea and I've read too much]. It's not an imperative statement to the author so much as it is their opinion on the best "next move" in the game. Like when a boomer yells at the TV to run X play or pass the ball to Y player. It's just how they enjoy the game.Again you get what you feed.
>>25068303All these areas were pirate havens until the United States arrived and France colonized Algeria.So they would simply raid others' supplies.>>25068301Disparity of colonies.Italy, Germany, and Japan had few or no colonies and a surprisingly low amount of natural resources, while Britain and France controlled half the world. When they made international deals, they mostly made them among themselves, only occasionally inviting Russia or the United States.The First and Second World Wars were, in part, attempts to break this system.>Counter-ReformationLANDLANDLANDThe first thing many German princes did once converting was invade and annex bishops’ lands, increasing their own power and further decentralizing imperial authority.
>>25068313It was not colonies but Napoleons grande army.He just washed over germany until he hit prussia.
>>25068318And that marked the end of ancient warfare. As it turned out, to defeat Napoleon all one had to do was expand the battlefield.No more single battles, but theaters stretching thousands of kilometers, with dozens of engagements happening at the same time.Napoleon couldn’t be everywhere at once. He might win his own battle, but if he lost eleven others, he was doomed.
>>25068321The city here hated the prussians so much for being anti catholic that they liked napoleon better.
>>25068324I think it's a post-WW2 thing.If Napoleon had won, it would have never happened.
>>25068313That is true. I could even have a naval force be dominant in the southern regions which is designed to take out pirates, maybe a smuggling campaign happens where they try and ransom the prince and that's how my quest happens.
>>25068326It is a pre WWI thing. The prussians for german unity sake financed the completion of the almost 1000 years standing cathedral.That warmed feelings again.
>>25068265As annoying as it is, I still force myself to read all comments like that and think seriously, do they have any point. Would there have been a better way to handle things. It's good experience that will help you do better next time.It's usually better not to respond to comments, but ignoring everything is not a good idea either. If you let a regular commenter settle into that "I'm very smart and the author is very stupid!"-mentality and make pointing out "dumb shit" his new hobby, he'll just poison the whole comment section. You don't want other readers to start thinking that guy has a point, which sours everybody's fun. So if there's a clear error in logic, or some detail they missed, you should stop this development early by pointing it out. But in a diplomatic, friendly way, so the commenter wouldn't feel their honor insulted and start arguing out of spite.
>>25068327Good idea.>>25068331Write a Napoleon Book.
I just gave this FFF trash novel a 0.5 star rating
>>25068375More than it deserves.
>>25068375>>25068414Stop samefagging.You are already are crybaby.
>>25068375>>25068414Recklessly based
Commenters bitch and whine about conflict and tension and "IF I WERE THE MC, I WOULD NEVER" but in the end, big pinches are what bring you patreon subs. Another proof that the plebs understand nothing
>>25068538>Commenters bitch and whine about conflict and tensionnobody does that
>click on fic with "lord" or some similar term in title>"kingdom building etc etc">look inside>plot stretched thinner than a CBT enthusiast's foreskin>literally fuck all happens in as many words as would suffice for a whole volume>little to no real thought put into the actual kingdom/citybuilding>genuinely even less thought than if a casual strategy player went "hm i will write my gameplay as a novel"this is a request, please recommend me some actual decent novels in this subgenre
>>25068594
>>25068595isn't this the one where it rugpulls and turns out MC is a dengist tankie or some shit
>>25067715>>25067721The moral of the story is that even if your story is dogshit and prose is on the level on 4th grader, it will gain engagement if you keep at it long enough.I'm so fucking jealous.
>>25068594There aren't any, base building is just stream of consciousness autism.
>>25068593Because nobody feels any tension reading your bland slop
>>25068594If these people had any clue how to build kingdoms, they'd be multi-millionaire CEOs, not writing wish-fulfillment crap for pennies
>>25068639Why are you jealous? Just write a mid story (anyone with at least average iq is capable of that) and you will get 10 times more engagement.
>>25068668The skills required to handle macro-scale infrastructure are not even remotely the same as the skills (and mental distortions) required to climb the modern-day pedo sociopath pile
is there a story similar to lb6 of fgo out there?
>>25068673This may shock you, but the people running kingdoms have always been pedo sociopaths since the beginning of organized civilization
>>25068677soulpoisoned modernist cope
Are there novels out there with aura farming MCs except with good writing?
>>25068676>lb6 of fgowhat did he mean by that?
>>25068677>erm asckshyually there has never ever been a good ruler and everything has always been just as shit and demoralized as nowkill yourself you fucking goylem
>>25068670Because I'm a pantser, and I can't come up with more than 10K words of worthwhile content.That's why I admire all authors who can come up with stuff.
>>25068677That's a modern take. Why would any man in power pick an old diseased woman instead of young girl in her prime?
>>25068682>>25068701>glorifying times you were never alive to seeThe saddest cope
>>25068761>Everything and everyone has been shit forever and we're living in the best times in history, chuddie>No don't look at these easily verifiable historical accounts that disprove me, they’re racistI think this cope is even more sad.
>>25068594i find the chinese actually writes the best kingdom building autism novel/ https://www.novelupdates.com/series/the-grandmaster-strategist/https://www.novelupdates.com/series/holy-roman-empire/https://www.novelupdates.com/series/judge-of-the-song-dynasty/ (personal favourite)https://www.novelupdates.com/series/the-child-emperor/https://www.novelupdates.com/series/rise-of-the-poor/https://www.novelupdates.com/series/the-rebirth-of-the-malicious-empress-of-military-lineage/https://www.novelupdates.com/series/pivot-of-the-sky/https://www.novelupdates.com/series/mediterranean-hegemon-of-ancient-greece/https://www.novelupdates.com/series/throne-of-magical-arcana/https://www.novelupdates.com/series/tales-of-the-reincarnated-lord/https://www.novelupdates.com/series/black-irons-glory/>>25068605no just that ending is shit and unsatisfactory. also every technological limit is pretty much solved by asspuling new witches.
>>25068825The child emperor started well, but when I caught to the translation he was not an emperor, nor was he a child
>>25068657Nah I now learned that you can't have the character fail or the nerds get mad with you.If you do anything like kingdom of base building things are not allowed to fail.They will call you stupid because their self insert didn't find X or solution Y while the real issue is that the character failed at all.
>>25068595this is just "there is a witch for every task to make communism work"
>>25068825They really don't do kingdom building well. Given the selection you pushed out those are mostly social and cultivation plots.
>>25068905You haven't read any of them.
>>25068912I think I read 4-5 of them but ages ago.Arcana, Military lineage, black iron I do remember them vaguely.
>>25068905>>25068916Some of them are kinda mixed but black iron is textbook kingdom building. The cultivation part is just side quest. Also mediteranean hegemon, judge of song dynasty and holy Roman empire are straight up alt history with no cultivation included
>>25068947Military lineage is a cultivation novel with courtdrama not kingdom building admit it.
>>25068782The modern person can't understand that most people prior to the enlightenment saw this world as transitory and were less likely to put up with disloyalty and dishonor than they are now. A peasant did what he did because it was the best for him and the nobility had their own roles to fulfill. If they didn't like it they would just revolt.
>>25068960The concept of Noblesse Oblige (or its equivalents) has also been meticulously and thoroughly choked out in modernity. This is naturally by design,
Which story should I write.Guy is isekaid turns into cute noble boy, magic exists his magic is the wrong type so he's sent to a rural village, turns out his magic is really good at building villages, so he starts kingdom building and staying lowkey.orguy is isekai'd, he's middle aged, and he starts working as a clerk for the adventurers guild and slowly starts to explore the world he's been sent to.
>>25068991Depends, for "marketing purposes", I would change middle aged to around 30, that's considered old on the internet. I would also add that he has a pet squirrel named Timmy with epilepsy magic.
>>25068991not wishfullfilly enough, the first he has to succeed with nearly everythingin the second version he should be 34 meaning his life is basically over but he should be a hidden badass and or not aware of how awesome he is
>>25069011>he has a pet squirrel named Timmy with epilepsy magic.This seems like a good idea, for some reason people love mascot characters.>>25069016I have ideas on how to make him useful or stronger, but yea the point with making him middle aged, 30+ is his life is basically over. So he doesn't even consider trying to become an adventurer.The first I'll skip the intial death and talk with god, just have him wake up with past memories, him being sent away is basically my isekai truck but im not sure how many wins i have to give him before the readers would let me give him a set back, which quickly turns out not to be one anyway.
>>25068991>no.1this is just Easygoing Territory Defense, the current isekaislop de jour
>>25068991>cute noble boyFemboy cute or just generic cute?
>>25068991He should be at least 40 or older when he dies on earth, then isekaid as a baby or (revived) as young kid, some kind of minor noble who got poisoned/murdered by a rival faction.
>>25068976That's because we aren't ruled by nobles since that would require them to take up military roles and risk their skin or their sons skin. We're ruled by the merchant class and I don't just mean the long nose tribe.
>>25068976man i wish nobles were real, I hate the hellscape where we the goverment doesn't even have a code of ethic s like noblesse oblige.
>>25069210Even when nobles were kinda shit they still had it in them to sorta pretend, for their own egos, but politicians nowadays don't even have that bare minimum veneer of legitimacy. They figured out the balance point of bread and circuses and just don't give a shit anymore because nobody will bother killing them.
>>25069221be the change you want to seeand go to /pol/
>>25069328>>25069328>>25069328New Thread
>>25068706ah. the arc of becoming a writer. first you worry you can;t write enough words. And you struggle at it. Day comes though, you write enough words. And tio many. And you meander and sprawl. First you write too little. Then you write too much. Then you learn control and a minimum outline and you write just enough.
>>25069543Currently doing the inverse becaues the web novel format forces me to write less and I don't know what to do.
>>25069633join the club, anon. WN are their own thing.
