Medieval edition>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>25064706>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANE·https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Classical languages are welcome.
εἰς τοὺς φιλέλληνας
consummatu'sthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6NcbFNPX5k
>>25104032>tandem Ekho-Ranieri Methodum™ incipere possum
Saepe mirari soleo illum tantum scriptorum legisse, ideo ut nihil sciret.
jestermaxxer btfos the crown
I'm learning Koine Greek for Bible study. How applicable is Koine to the earlier Greek the philosophers used, and later Greek?
>>25104280Pronunciation is quite different and the grammar is different. If by later Greek you mean Medieval/Byzantine, it is more applicable to that.
>>25104280Medieval/Byzantine is later Koine, so very. Biblical Koine is essentially a prerequisite for it.Koine itself is a simplified form of Attic, with a more constrained vocabulary, which means that it carries over well into Attic, but if one starts with Attic first they will find Koine readable, but not the inverse necessarily. Basically, insofar as Koine does not cover Attic, it is simply because the entirety (mostly) of Koine is contained within Attic. So the order is a matter of interest, and Koine lets you read the Bible earlier.
>>25103936Where would one get started with Icelandic and by that extent anything with Old NorseI feel like these are overlooked beyond the Sagas but surely there's more?
>>25104176>>25104032Wait nevermind. The app is JUST audio books. I thought this would be Ancient Greek Legentibus©.
>>25104421Viking Language by Jesse Byock. Approved by Tom Shippey.
>>25104421Oops pic shows 2nd edition. He has 3rd edition now.978-1953947161
>>25104421I recommend Old Icelandic : an introductory coursehttps://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015001017519&seq=7I'm not a fan of the othersAn Introduction to Old Norse by E. V. Gordon could be useful for the reader and glossary
>>25104410This is why I'd never recommend learning Koine unless you're only interested in the Bible + Medieval Greek. If you want the ability to read the older stuff while still finding the New Testament a breeze, learn Attic.
>>25104032
>>25104427>>25104461Takk anons I will look into these
>>25103936plus imagines mediaevales ridiculas volo!
>>25104515Learning Koine is like learning modern English first, which is impractical to read Shakespeare if that is one’s sole goal, but still really helpful for reading Shakespeare and has a bunch of literature of its own.Plus the pagan Koine corpus is sizable too.
Socrates Apology around 28b>ὅτι ‘οὐ καλῶς λέγεις, ὦ ἄνθρωπε, εἰ οἴει δεῖν κίνδυνον ὑπολογίζεσθαι τοῦ ζῆν ἢ τεθνάναι ἄνδρα ὅτου τι καὶ σμικρὸν ὄφελός ἐστιν, ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ ἐκεῖνο μόνον σκοπεῖν ὅταν πράττῃ, πότερον δίκαια ἢ ἄδικα πράττειTranslation:>You do not speak well, Sir, if you think a man in whom there is even a little merit ought to consider danger of life or death, and not rather regard this only, when he does things, whether the things he does are right or wrongIf "ὅτου" is the neuter for "ὅστις", why isn't the subject of the phrase "καὶ σμικρὸν ὄφελός ἐστιν" "living or dying", instead of "man"? Could this be translated as:>You do not speak well, Sir, if you think a man ought to consider danger of life or death, which is something of little value, and not rather regard this only, when he does things, whether the things he does are right or wrong
>>25105200mmh ὅτου is genitive masculine/neuter so the first translation, imho right, links it to ἄνδρα
https://youtu.be/sfWMgWnSQUw?si=jPFFWNDMZ8aqEIGFKino just dropped.
>>25105216How about:>Which is of little benefit to him
>>25105292maybe in theory but looking at how ὄφελος is used typically the one to whom is the benefit is normally in the dative while genitive seems to pertain to the «what» i.e partitive use of X to Y, but correct me if I'm wrong, I'm looking at how it's commonly employed
>>25105316That's a very good answer anon, thanks. Will look into it more.
>>25105235gemma
>Τριῶν ἡμερῶν ποινὴ ἐπεὶ ἐγραψα σχόλιον (ὄχι νῆμα!) ἐκτὸς θέματος.> Ὁ ἐπόπτης ποιεῖ τοῦτον ἄνευ μισθοῦ. Χαίρετε Ἑλληνίζοντες καὶ λοιποὶ φίλοι.
>>25105484χαῖρ' ἠθεῖε, ἐνίοι τῶν ἐποπτῶν πανπόνηροί εἰσιν, οὐκ οἶδα πότερον εἰς /tv/ φοιτᾷς ἢ μὴ ἀλλ' ἐκεῖ ὁ ἐπόπτης χαλεπαίνει σφόδρα περὶ οὐδενὸς ἀξίων, πολλάκις γάρ μοι φλυαρίας ὀνειδίζει ἅς ἄλλοθι περὶ οὐδενὸς ποιοῖντ' ἄν ὠς παραδειγματος ἕνεκα τῇ πρὸ τοῦ τετάρτῃ ἢ πεμπαίῃ ἡμέρᾳ ὅτι μ' ἐνουθέτησεν τὸ sneed γεγραφέναι
>>25105701>sneed γεγραφέναικέκΜηκέτι φοιτῶ εἰς /tv/ καίπερ ἀρέσκει μοι ὁρᾶν ταινίας καὶ ἑώρακα οὐκ ὀλίγαι . Οἴομαι αἱ αγαπηταὶ μοι εἰσὶν "Ὁ συνήγορος τοῦ διαβόλου" καὶ "Plein Soileil". Συ;
>>25105122da mi imagines mille! ut hanc nostri op!
>>25104032FINITVM EST, LATINITAS CECIDIT
where can I buy a new print of nova vulgate vatican edition?
What would be the best way to say "psyop" in Classical Chinese?
>>25106266改心之谋
>>25105950ὡς ἀλθηὲς εἰπεῖν τὰ πολλ' οὐ φοιτῶ εἰς /tv/ ἕνεκα τῶν νῦν ἐν θεάτροις ὑποκρινομένων ταινιῶν, περὶ ὀλίγου γὰρ ὡς ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ ποιητέαι τὸ πολὺ, τῶν δὲ πάλαι εἰσὶ μὴν ἅς φιλῶ ὡς τὴν σὺ ἔμνησας «συνήγορος τοῦ διαβόλου»· πλὴν τῶν πολλαχοῦ ἀξιομνημονεύτων ἀξιοθεατίστη ὥς γ' ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ εἰς τὸ νῦν «ὁ Ζῳδιακός» τοῦ Δαυὶδ Φίντσερ, τὴν περὶ πλείστου φιλῶ τὴν αἰτίαν μὴ ἀκριβῶς δυνάμενος φράζειν
>>25105316Reading through the LSJ entry, all of the examples I looked into used the dative to show the recipient of the benefit indeed. I also found multiple examples using the genitive such as>γεωργοῦ ἀργοῦ οὐδὲν ὄφελοςWhat bugged me in the original translation, is translating ὄφελος into merit, instead of benefit.The original translation can thus be rephrased as:"a man who is of little benefit" (to others, like when they are ordered by the city council or rulers to go to war). The translator basically turned this around to say "if someone has merit", merit in this case being of benefit to others.
Latin anon is late so I'm posting it
Which dialect should I learn for reading Classical Chinese? I am HSK6 in Mandarin, but it has lost so much of the phonology that Middle Chinese had. I'm thinking either Cantonese or Hokkien. I can and would pay a tutor to teach me one of those dialects over the next year or 2 and learn how to read Hanzi in them even though it's totally useless.
>>25107372The usual advice I hear is that if you're already fluent in a modern Sinosphere language just use that.
>>25107372just use Mandarin, CC is not a spoken language and the readings you use for it will be just as contrived in any language or in MC reconstructionif you really care about rhyme or poetry just check the MC readings on wiktionary, but those are only partially accurate for like 300 years of the Tang then stop working for Song writing (i.e. they rhyme all kinds of 入声 finals because they all became q in Song MC)Mandarin is actually the best language for learning CC because other Chinese languages are prone to using dialectal/vernacular vocabulary but 普通话 actually preserves a lot of literary wordsCantonese also gets rid of just as many differences as it preserves phonetically
>>25107496>Cantonese also gets rid of just as many differences as it preserves phoneticallyDoes it? Because it preserves more total distinct syllables.
>>25107505Cantonese loses the distinction between 三开 and 三合 finals (basically stuff that i i-vowel and u-vowel in Mandarin is just vowel by itself in Canto)it also mixes up most of the retroflex fricatives with alveolars, and entirely loses the ny initial which became r in Mandarinhence 日/溢 ri4 and yi4 in Mandarin but jat6/jat6 in Canto
>>25107526Yes, it definitely makes mergers that Mandarin doesn't, I'm just disputing the premise that it gets rid of "just as many", since as I said it does have more total distinct syllables. (I think from most to least it was something like Middle Chinese -> Hokkien -> Vietnamese -> Cantonese -> Mandarin -> Shanghainese -> Korean -> Japanese).
>>25107533Mandarin has 1375 syllables, Cantonese has 1756, it's not much of a difference when MC had around 4000 and many of the Cantonese syllables are post-hoc distinctions it's like saying that Spanish is closer to Latin than Portuguese. Sure, there are some more consistent sound rules, but neither of them will make you fluent in Latin
>>25107366Thanks amice, I was busy and didn't want to phonepost it. Rollan.
>>25107366>>25107887Euge! A monacho Hibernio saeculo XI scriptum est, circa aetatem Caroli Magni. Nesciebam quod tale carmen hexametrum in hoc tempore compositus est. Forsitan ob "Renaissance" Caroli Magni est.
>>25107976Fuck, looking at this I can spot a couple errors. Oh well, it's one of my first times outputting. I'm sure you can all understand it.
>>25107976>Hiberno>compositum>maybe add "id" to final clause for clarityI think the rest of this is just me being slightly unidiomatic or medieval sounding, like the quod clause.
ARS POPVLVSQVE MEDIAEVALISAPQM BASEATI SVNT
>>25105235>read title>sounds fun>Luke Ranieri appears in the video>close video immediately
>>25108910Lmao took me a second to realize APQM was ars populosque mediaevalis and not just some horrendous typo. I agree.>>25108933His aura causes lesser latinists to flee in terror I suppose. All shall flexo their genu.
What is "shart" in Latin, Ancient Greek, Sanskrit, and Old Norse?
>>25109177ἐγχέζειν/incacare
>>25109177>doesn't ask about CCrude
>>25109364He’s clearly just a comparative linguist working on PIE, CC isn’t relevant there.
>>25103940κλῆρον πάλλω
Out of curiosity, after Latin, is there much value in studying PIE (insofar as it can even be “studied”) for a better grasp/carryover into ancient greek, or eventually sanskrit?
thoughts on my Chinese philosophy chart? this is just a draft, I'll make it with pretty colours and more info once I finalise the layoutsuggestions for the minor schools would be appreciated
>>25109419Greek and Sanskrit are probably the most important ancient languages for reconstructing PIE so idk how much value you'd get trying to study PIE beforehand from just knowing Latin
>>25109389>Clement of Alexandriaalthough not my cup of tea in genre, pretty good example, imho, of Koine that hardly feels inferior at all to standard Attic, I read more than the 100 words and if one had told me it was just Attic I wouldn't have caught on it's from the first or second century AD at least for a while, he even shows off the dualone weird thing though is how he seems to use μῦθος in the singular to mean plural(???), caught me a bit off guard
>>25107552In any case we're talking about pronunciation schemes rather than languages per se, no?>>25107526>Cantonese loses the distinction between 三开 and 三合 finals (basically stuff that i i-vowel and u-vowel in Mandarin is just vowel by itself in Canto)A minor point, but some of them become different vowels instead. For example, in Mandarin 狼 is lang2 and 良 is liang2, but in Cantonese they're long4 and loeng4 (oe here representing a sound like French eu). This is part of why Cantonese has so bloody many vowels.
>>25109177The idiomatic Latin expression is "facere ut ventum flet cum luto."
>>25109537儒宜有禮記及左傳同孟子等論兵者 孫吳為先 次有尉繚子司馬法太公法三書 其後黃石公三略及李衛公問對也
>>25109968大学中庸为礼记之部,吾以为他部次也。左传为史,西人不好之。吾未念兵家之书,谢子之议。
Is there a plain text version of Chaucer's Boece that has the line numbering, marginalia, and notes separated from the main text? It's on gutenberg, but I can't copy the text without also highlighting everything else.
Let's try something new, tips and/or suggestions are welcome.Composition challenge:write a 50 words(minimum) paragraph, roll last digit for theme:0 - why you learned your TL1 - describe a country of choice2 - describe one of your favorite books' argument3 - describe a philosophy you like4 - comment on a recent political event5 - recount a story from your life6 - describe one of your favorite animals7 - describe your job(if any, else, what you'd like to do)8 - your favorite boards and why9 - whatever you wantdubs - 100 words, trips - 150 words, and so on...
I realize for CC anons or any non alphabetic classical languages "50 words" is probably a bad measure. Should add "or equivalent" above.
>>25110479rolling
>>25110479okey dockey
>>25110734bene, eorum quae nuper in orbe terrarum magni habenda sunt memorandae procul dubio minae belli inferendi in Persas a civitatibus foederatis Americae duce Donaldo Trumpo, iamdudum videtur imperium Americanum magnopere navare ut sibi in potestatem omnino redigant has plagas; sunt qui dicerent fortasse recte ducem fulvum, qui diebus comitialibus se iactabat omnium bellorum terminum impositurum atque mutaturum civitatum foederatarum morem bellorum identidem alias in terras inferendorum, non sua sponte agere sed impelli ab iis qui veras rerum habenas tenent; utcumque res se habeant, facile fieri potest ut pax americana tandem pessum detur
>>25110645hmm. narrationes non habeo, fortasse aliud tempus
>>25103940Has anyone made one of these for Latin?
>>25111151>>25107366(guess I'll roll with it)
>>25110479Volvo
>>25110479>>25111159NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODI NIGROS ODIThat should be 50 words I think.
>>25110645latine verti!
>>25110479quia me valde stultum videram linguam latinam discere statui
>>25110048儒者甚貴周禮 以復之為志 故行儒道者 莫不學禮也 且君臣之義 父子之道 長幼之序 皆為禮顯 中國與諸蠻夷之別 在於禮儀不同 故吾以為禮記甚重 儒者必治全文 無部可失
>>25111171BASATUS
>>25106630ὦ φίλε, ἐξ Ἰταλίας αδελφέ, ζητῶ συγγνωμη ὅτι οὐκ ἀπεκρυνάμην σοι, ἐργάζομαι εἰς γραφεῖον νῦν καὶ οὐκ εἶχον πολὺ χρόνον.εἰς τὰ ἀγαθά ἀγγέλματα, ἐπριάμην νέα βιβλία γραμματικῆς καὶ συντακτικοῦ
You guys look like you're having fun, with there was another OCS learner here lol
>>25111151Probably
>>25111670固古者,此然也。而今者,犹不然。古之学者,图考官治国而学儒。今之西人,图知东修身而学儒。西国之学者非中国之学者也。周礼之效,在于治国。西人其何周礼如?西人岂好学之?然而大学、中庸教修身之道。西人岂不好学之?吾以为学抑不学全文皆可。皆置于表,学者可自选其学儒之道。程朱理学之道、古者之道皆可也。
>>25111723οὐδὲν δέον συγγνώμης ὠγαθέ, ἡ τοῦ νήματος βραδυτὴς καλῶς ἁρμόττεται εἰς τὸ ἀρχαιστὶ διαλέγεσθαι ὅτ' ἄν σχολὴ ὑπάρχῃ ἡμῖν, ξυνίημι χαλεπὸν εἶναι μισθαρνεῖν τε καὶ χρόνον εὑρεῖν ἵν' ἀρχαίας μελετᾷς τὰς γλώττας
>>25111745are there specific texts OCS learners typically have in mind as main objective of their learning journey?
>>25110350Nevermind I found it.https://quod.lib.umich.edu/c/cme/ChaucerBo
>>25112035Not really, but I'd say the Codex Suprasliensis is known by every learner, it's really long too. There are also different manuscripts of the four Gospels, though every manuscript differs a bit in how they are written, but there are normalized versions (reconstructed by Josef Vajs)
>>25112158Forgot the linkshttps://suprasliensis.obdurodon.orghttps://mudroljub.github.io/old-slavic-library/
CAVETE ADVERSVM SECVRI ARMATAM LEPOREM!
>>25112586ranae abstinent vim ab hominibus
>>25107366roll classical
>>25113138FVGETE AUTEM, O CARAE RANAE!ARMATAE SECVRI LEPORES IAM VENIVNT!
>>25110479What the hell, I'll give it a shot. I'm interpreting "50 words" as "50 characters" for the purposes of Classical Chinese.
>>25113530初以日本漫畫,遊戲等為趣,因學其語,乃好其文字之奇。始知其漢文訓讀,愈奇之;已非直讀,未及真譯,蓋無其類。竟識其難操而不宜;然既覺漢文之妙。今則以官話音讀之,而慮其可改乎。特好其詩;猶天下華。
>>25113279Rhea Silvia's dream
>>25113558古汉语”日本“曰倭国
>>25113646唐已有「日本」一詞,而日本人又以「倭」為蔑稱。
>>25113659子曰:名不正则言不顺,言不顺则事不成。倭国者先王赐民之,而日本者今敌造之。倭国正名,日本伪名也。以伪名称我国之邻,如何平天下?
Πόλεμος πάντων μὲν πατήρ ἐστι, πάντων δὲ βασιλεύς, καὶ τοὺς μὲν θεοὺς ἔδειξε τοὺς δὲ ἀνθρώπους, τοὺς μὲν δούλους ἐποίησε τοὺς δὲ ἐλευθέρους
a verse from Homer:>αὐτὸς δὲ κλινθῆναι ἐϋπλέκτῳ ἐνὶ δίφρῳthis is how I understand the quantitative structure of it to be:>| αὐ-τὸς | δὲ κ-λιν-| θῆναι ἐ-| ϋπλέκ-| τῳ ἐ-νὶ | δίφ-ρῳ (spondee, spondee, dactyl, spondee, dactyl, spondee)I can autistically explain my scansion if need be, but for the sake of brevity I will avoid right now. I'm particularly curious about the fifth foot, should my scansion by correct. in the third foot, for instance, there would seem to be correption, causing the -αι to be short by position. but the -ῳ in -τῳ is long even though it's followed by word-initial epsilon. is there something particular about the phonetic quality of this section which overrides correption, or is it simply the more basic rule of hexameter where every foot has to start with a long syllable that's "in charge" here?
>>25110797 (abhinc duobus fere diebus scriptum)>minaepapae...
>>25113871(is correptio the right term? I remember this rule as shortening by hiatus while correptio is used for the mute+liquid thing)in any case, I think this kind of shortening while very common isn't obligatorye.g I found>οὔτε σοὶ οὔτέ τῳ ἄλλῳ, ἐπεί μ’ ἀφέλεσθέ γε δόντες·>σὺν τῷ ἔβη κατὰ νῆας Ἀχαιῶν χαλκοχιτώνων·which consider τῳ short, but also>ἥμισυ τῷ ἐνάρων ἀποδάσσομαι, ἥμισυ δ’ αὐτὸς>ζωὸν ἐνὶ πρώτῳ ὁμάδῳ Τρώεσσι μάχεσθαι.where τῳ isn't shortenednot sure there's any pattern
>>25113922I believe hiatus describes the more immediate phonetics (two syllables, separate from one another, without an intermediate consonant) while correption is the rule. (also, after looking into it, it seems people often call it "epic correption".) but, as the examples you provided show - thank you for those, by the way - this is a tendency, not something absolute. so it does seem that the more foundation foot structure is why we don't see correption here.
>>25113871Homer does as he wishes sometimes. There are a fair number of locked syllables which end up being short just because.
>>25113674中國非我國。妾乃美國人也。
On a spiritual retreat right now in mountainside monastery. Only letting myself use internet to access Latin resources. Find out about war from picrel.
“Donaldus Trump… Mar-a-Lago” Quare paginam latinam pulchram cum hoc verbis barbaris infestant?Jocosus sum.
>>25114479>spiritual retreat>internet
>>25114501etiam in quatuorchano, errorem inveni
>>251144794chan isn't a Latin resource m8Either stop lying to yourself or fuck off
>>25114479>signaling you're on a spiritual retreat in a monastery>signaling you're still a good boy because you're only using it for Latin resources>the Latin resource is current events slop>"I have to tell 4chan about this"Please delete this, I'm secondhand embarrassed.
>>25114501>>25114622>>25114682:)
>>25114501Fair. They’re very theologically liberal.>>25114622Chill out Dr. Asperger>>25114682>signalingI was pretty explicit. It’s the context that makes the story have a point. Not sure why you think that’s some big brag or anything to be present in a place.Still, I know reason goes out the window when the church gets mentioned. You’re either a homosexual, an ex-catholic still butthurt with his parents about sunday school, a Protestant, some other religion, a judgmental lukewarm catholic bothered by anyone more involved in the church than you, or a judgmental tryhard Catholic bothered by anyone not as aesthetic or based as you. Either way, sincerely and with as much love as I can muster over a mongolian basket weaving forum, you should really get on that pronto dude, cause whichever of the above describes you, you’re all going to the same place (but I sincerely hope and pray otherwise).
>>25114937imagine if you were without internet and when you went out of that retreat you would just face the begining of WWIII
>>25114945One can cultivate a kind of medieval piety by having no idea what’s going on in Rome.
>>25114959you need to stay informed for optimal internet shitflinging
I was thinking about how people here are commonly dismissive of poor pronunciation/overpronunciation of vowel length and pitch accent, and some of those conversations mention how modern languages that have phonemic vowel length and a pitch accent like Japanese would be a useful object of study. While normal Japanese conversational speech can give an idea of those qualities in Latin or Greek conversational speech, I was particularly interested in poetry so I tried looking into Japanese poetry recitation. It turns out that formal performance style of recitation (詩吟) is wildly stylized. Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnFxLzsWTZsDo we know much about Latin or Greek poetry recitation? It was commonly accompanied with instrumental performances, right?
>>25110479κλῆρον πάλλω
>>25115406τῶν ἐμοὶ φιλτάτων θηρίων οὗ πέρ' ἀγορεύσω τὸν αἴλουρον αἱρῶ· τόν τις φαίη ἄν αἵρησιν φαύλην εἶναι πάνδημον ὄντα ἀλλὰ δὴ καθ' ὅλον τὸν βίον ὡμίλουν αὐτοῖς· παιδὶ ἔτι ὄντι ἦσαν ἐμοὶ αἴλουροι ἀλλά ποτ' ἀπέδοσαν οἱ τοκεῖς ἐπεὶ ηὗρόν με νοσώδη διὰ τὸ σφέτερον δέρμα πταρμικὸν ὄν· ὅμως δ' ἐξῆν μοι καὶ εἱς τὸ νῦν ἔτ' ἔξεστι παρὰ τηθίδι ἐν τοῖς ἀγροῖς οἰκούσῃ πρὸς αὐτοὺς φοιτᾶν εὐλαμβανομένῳ μὴ χεῖρας ὅτ' ἄν ἅπτωμαι αὐτῶν εἰς ὅσσ' ἢ στόμα πρὶν λυθῆναι προσφέρειν, τὸ γὰρ λυπηρὸν ἦν μοι ἐὰν μὴ πόθος μ' ἔχει τοῦ καθ'ἡμέραν συνεχῶς πτέρνειν!φιλῶ τὴν αὐθάδειαν αὐτῶν, οἱ μὲν γὰρ τιθασοὶ λόγῳ, ἔργῳ δὲ διατελοῦσιν ἄγριοί πῃ ὄντες μάλιστά περ ἐὰν εἰώθωσιν ἔξω ζῆν
>>25103936Does anyone know any good sources to study Galician-Portuguese in depth? The objective is to read Cantigas fluently.
>>25115449>πτέρνειν*πταρνύναι
>be medieval author>no classical education>journal is the most important primary source for a major part of history>modern professor scoffs at it for how simple and unadorned the Latin is>modern scholar has access to the entire classical corpus anywhere with an internet connection>he goes back to writing his own magnum opus, his dissertation that he spent half a decade or more creating>it’s in EnglishNo wonder the language fucking died.
Προσεύχεσθε μοὶ άγαθὴν ἀνάγνωσιν φίλοι!
>>25116987Also if anyone has some links to download Lysias texts that would be great.This is just copied and pasted from oxytone dot xyz
>>25115224idk about Japanese poetry but classical meters are essentially based on rhythm from the intrinsic syllable-length so as much as it could've varied in terms of rendition, which I think is in large part basically unknown, it must've taken this rhythmic structure seriously, at least in the sense of not overwhelm it by putting too much weight on melody alone
>>25116987εὐτυχοῖς!>>25116988σοὶ δὴ ὑπάρχει αἱρεῖσθαι κατὰ τὸν φιλεῖς τρόπον τῶν βιβλίων, τοῦτ' ἐστίν, π. ἕ. , ἐν anna's archive ἐστὶ βιβλία ἔχοντα τοὺς τοῦ Λυσίου λόγους σὺν μεταφράσει Ἀγγλικῇ(loeb), Λατινικῇ(didot's) καὶ κατὰ τύχην εὕροις ἄν ἄνευ μεταφράσεως· loebs ἔχεις καταλαμβάνειν* καὶ ἐκ https://ryanfb.xyz/loebolus/ *οὐκ οἶδα τὴν καλλίστην μετάφρασιν τοῦ download
>>25114245尔乃transgender freak也。吾无视矣。。。
>>25116126is this an anglo-world thing or have all classic graduates/whatever switched to writing theses/dissertations in the local vernacular or worse english?
>>25118413Want a good career as a professor? Publish in the dominant vernacular of your century. If it was the 19th century people would tell you you HAD to be able to read German if you wanted to be a good LATINIST.The pretty obvious disconnect here is between the incentives of academia after vernaculars replaced Latin in scholarship, and the actual vitality of the Latin language.
Is that unique to classics though? Do academics in angloid university French literature departments write their works in French or English?
>>25118617obviously in english (I know nothing about that, but I know I'm right, It's just a matter of time until someone confirm my statement)
>>25118437My Swedish friend, in Sweden, is writing her thesis in English.
>>25118843grim
>>25117206Ευχαριστῶ σοι φίλε!
>>25118617>Do academics in angloid university French literature departments write their works in French or English?Both
>>25118437I mean I get it for STEM and other disciplines, even for closely related ones like philology sure, it's vernacular time, but specifically for those who should be studying the very languages themselves it's kind of a bummer. At this point I wouldn't even be surprised if people who study idk Germanistik also write in english.
>>25119484It’s especially odd because classicists are almost uniquely haughty about the languages. I’ve never gotten more pushback on any topic online than when I suggested that a closely related indo-european language where most worst are cognate to English and the script is the same is easier to reach an intermediate reading level with than Mandarin or Japanese or Arabic.Their (valid) defense to their lack of ability is that they’re classicists, not latinists, but they undermine this by acting like their degree makes them wizards with access to sekret knowledge not contained in the pages of Bradley’s Arnold.
>>25104032he's getting better with his spoken greek but clearly it's still a long way
Learning Latin and a little Greek has unlocked the English literary tradition in a way I just couldn’t comprehend before. Especially just rigorously learning grammar. My heart swells with pride to converse natively in the most splendid tongue on Earth.
>>25120738>My heart swells with pride to converse natively in the most splendid tongue on Earth.That's literally what everyone thinks, you're not special.
>>25120741Why would he think of himself special? He's just sharing his happiness with us.
>>25120776My point is that literally everyone thinks their native language is the most splendid language on Earth, there's nothing actually special about English.
>>25120779He said, in English.
>>25120810Yes, I'm posting on an English-language forum.
I have recently started Pharr's Homeric Greek as my introduction to classical languages, anyone else start with this and transition into Attic at a later date?
>>25120738Can you elaborate?
>>25120817Why?>>25121011No
The reason you know English is the best is because when someone claims it’s the best, the knee-jerk reaction is to say it’s untrue, but not to specify a better language. That’s the instincts of a resentful ESL or of a faux-sophisticate native speaker who thinks self-hatred passes for wit.
>>25103936Here's your modern Greek edition of Koine Greek.>athurmata de autois Kai poimenika en paidika.Modern Greek translations of Koine are the only time where the modern version is actually more erudite compared to the original. Koine Greek is the Trump twitter of Greek lit. I like it for its straightforwardness at least.
english influence around the globe is merely a matter of geopolitic. in a world the anglo was weak and still this language was exactly the same it would have been seen as an exotic barbaric language that paradoxically ended up having some top tier authours
>>25121653>in my made-up fantasy your language is the barbarian one!!unfortunately that's not the case :(
>>25121560that's not even the original Koineit's just a tiny contextual phrase introducing the concrete examples of their games not exactly something that needs much polish
>>25121196Because it is the biggest forum of its kind on the Internet. Approximately 60% of the Internet is in English, so there are things you effectively need English to do. This is not because of any intrinsic merit of the language itself, but because of the geopolitical effects of the British Empire followed by American global hegemony. (Also, English is in fact my first language, though not my subjective favorite.)>>25121531Or I don't think that it's possible to objectively judge one language as superior to other on linguistic grounds. I may personally like one language more, but that's just my subjective aesthetic judgement.
>>25121746Define “intrinsic merit.”Corpus is a form of merit.>Or I don't think that it's possible to objectively judge one language as superior to other on linguistic grounds.Evasive cope. Why join the conversation at all?
>>25121760>Corpus is a form of merit.It's a fact about what people have written in the language, not about the linguistic traits of the language itself.>Evasive cope. Why join the conversation at all?Because I objected to the initial statement of "English is the best language" on the grounds that it's nonsense?
>>25110479rollo, duke of normandy
>>25121768Moving the goalposts. I said English was the most splendid, and the best. I did not ever reduce or qualify the parameters of that claim whatsoever. Also some languages are absolutely linguistically impoverished relative to others anyways, and pretending that everything is subjective is itself nonsense.
>>25121899>Also some languages are absolutely linguistically impoverished relative to others anywaysNo, not really, ask any linguist.
Does learning the IPA help significantly with ancient greek?
>>25121960IPA is good for language learners in general.
>>25121960I don't think you need much more than basic terminology and resources like https://www.internationalphoneticassociation.org/IPAcharts/IPA_charts_EI/IPA_charts_EI.html to check every now and then when you need
>>25121934Appeal to authority
>>25122054And what reason have you given to think you're any more credible than them?
>>25122060None. Clearly. But you’re the one making the fallacy. Are you slow or something?
>>25122067Why shouldn't I weight the opinion of people who have studied the subject their whole lives more highly than that of some rando on 4chan, in the absence of evidence to the contrary?
>>25121717in a made-up reality.just look at the 'you' pronoun,meaning both singular and plural, this is barbaric
>>25122078To me, you’re the rando on 4chan. It appears we are at an impasse. But since you neglected to respond to anything else I accept your concessions on those points and claim victory.
quod legere debeo?
>>25123048quidquid lubet!
Friends, don't forget to do your exercises!
>>25123074Oops, forgot pic.
>>25123062magna responsio, o bufo!
>>25103940ἄλλο τι
>>25123339>Dionysius of HalicarnassusI gotta say, after reading definitely more than what the challenge required(first three chapters), I really like his style, he's not super straightforward, but still satisfying, and I think Romaboos can truly appreciate him.
Why do supines exist?
>>25123667to write cool stuff like eo cubitum
>>25123667utinam plurissimi sint!
>>25123080What's the title of that book?
>>25124908It's this.It's volume A and it has a volume B that's blue coloured and probably has more difficult exercises (I have it but haven't checked it yet since I just started this)Supposedly the writer is really good. I have also bought a syntax book of him and syntax exercises but haven't looked at them too much yet.
>>25123667Sounds a hell of a lot better that "prostrate"But prostrate is the one I hear 99 time out of a hundred. The one that sounds like prostate is the one we went with.
CVR NIGRES SILENTES HODIE
>>25125630fortasse pereunt quartus canalis /lit/que omnino...huic filo non detrimento esset, cum paucorum iam sit otium linguas antiquas discere, et male haberetur si nimis velox esset tabula sicut experti sumus multos per annossed fortasse nimis lenta quoque facile detrimento fieri potest etiam nobiseodem laborat /lang/
>>25121724I meant more the style of Koine Greek is very very direct compared to the other styles of Greek not that it's the exact same sentence one for one.
>>25116126Name one
>[preposition]... [preposition+verb]
>>25125630Too busy learning Spanish.
>>25126250No lo hagas porfa.
cum quartus canalis abesset legistis profecto multa hodie nonne?!?
What are some good sources for learning pre-Norman conquest Old English?
Do you have any tips how to approach the syntax in ancient greek?
>>25126350I could learn Latin to read such works as... *checks thelatinlibrary.com* ... "De Agri Cultura." Hm... Or I could learn how to read literature of real contemporary importance, like the menus at the local Mexican restaurants. Hard choice. Adios.
Bump
Ἑλληνισταί, ποίᾳ προφορᾷ χρῆσθε ὅτε τὰ κείμενα αναγιγνώσκετε;
>>25125677can hardly say that from one sentence, I have rolled twice ITT and got two Koine period authors, Clement of Alexandria and Dionysius of Halicarnassus, their prose while not Thucydidean hardly feels simpler per se than e.g a Xenophon
>>25127904τὴν παλαιὴν Ἀττικὴν τὴν ἐπὶ πλεῖστον ἀκριβοτάτην εἰς τὸ νῦν ηὑρήκαμεν πειρῶ μιμεῖσθαι ἢ μικροῦ δέουσαν τοῦ πρέπει ὠγαθέοὐδὲν ἧττον πολλ' ἐμὰ φθέγματ' ἀμέλει κακὰ φαίνοιτ' ἄν ἀκοῦσαι ὡς π. ἕ. τὰ φ, χ καὶ θ δασέα ὄντα καὶ ἁπλῶς οὐχ ὑπάρχοντα ἡμῖν ἐν ταῖς νῦν ἑσπερίαις γλώτταις ἀκοῦσαι(πλὴν Ἀγγλιστὶ ὅτ' ἄν λόγους τινους φθέγγωνται ὡς π. ἕ could = /kʰʊd/)εἰσὶ καὶ οἱ ψευδοδίφθογγοι ὡς ει καὶ ου οὕς κατὰ τὸ εἰκὸς οἱ πάλαι Ἕλληνες ἐνίοτε ε-ι ἄλλοτε ε-ε ἐφθέγγοντο κατὰ τὴν ἑκάστων ἐτυμολογίαν· τοὐμὸν μέρος τὸν μὲν εε φθέγγομαι, τὸν δὲ οο ἢ πολλάκις Λατινιστὶ /ū/οὐ μὴν ἀμελῶ τοῦ τόνου, καἰ εἰ τὴν ἐναρμόνιον διάρθρωσιν αὐτοῦ ἴσως οὔποτε ἀκριβῶς γνωσόμεθα
>>25126417Osweald Bera and maybe a grammar book to start (Peter Baker’s is good). Then, get the Cambridge Old English reader.
>>25127992ἐθέλω κἀγὼ μανθάνειν τὴν νῦν προταθεῖσαν προφοράν, ἀλλὰ χρῶμαι τῇ νέονελληνικῇ ἕως γε τὴν γλῶτταν ἐπεστήξω. Πολλὰ δεινὰ παθὼν σήμερον ἐξ αίτίας τοῦ συντακτικοῦ! Δεῖ ὅμως ἕτι πειρᾶσθαι ἵνα σωφρονέστεροι ἐσόμενοι!
>>25110479>write a 50 words(minimum) paragraph, roll last digit for theme:>>0 - why you learned your TLꙖкo дa гнѣвл҄ѭ дpoyгꙑ (мꙑ блъгapє ѥcмъ), читaѭ Cлoвo Бoжиѥ, пишѫ кън҄игꙑ. Bьce ѥcтъ.
Sallust describing a battle>Some mountains left, a cliff right, he stationed his forces in front, some back, the trumpet sounded and battle started, the middle was charged up and the flanks from here assailed. It was fierce.
>>25128469So basically Sallust wrote like a six-year-old?
>>25110479Ρολλ
>>25128469just another boring Roman monday
>>25128485>tfw you can't fill in the blanks /lit/ in general is not for you slow ass nigga
>>25129055Sorry your dear Sallust was revealed as the juvenile lit that it is. Literally the Magic Treehouse books of Latin literature.
>LiterallyAs if I'd ever take your dumb ass seriously
>>25129257Why did you have to ask if he wrote like a six-year-old >>25128485 if you've already read him?
>>25128403περὶ πλείστου ποιητέον τὸ ἥδεσθαι ὅτῳ γλώσσας ὀρέγεται διαμανθάνειν φίλε· ὁστισοῦν καθ' ἡμέραν σμικρόν περ ἀνύτει ἀναγιγνώσκων κεφάλαιον ἢ γράφων τινοὺς στοίχους ἐν χρόνῳ περανεῖ τὸν ἀγῶνακατὰ τὴν παλαιὴν προφορὰν δεῖ τὸν βουλόμενον ᾠδὰς ἢ ποιήματ' ἢ ῥαψῳδίας ἡδέως ἀναγιγνώσκειν μέλεσθαι ὅτι μάλιστα τοῦ τόνου τῶν φωνηέντων τοῦτ' ἔστι τοῦ ἐκτείνειν καὶ τοῦ συστέλλειν ἐν ῥυθμῷ· ἐὰν γὰρ ἕν εὐλαβητέον ᾖ, τοῦτ' ἡγοῦμαι τὸ μέγιστος· ὥς γ' ἐμοὶ δοκεῖ, ποιήματ' ἢ ἄλλα τοιαῦτά ἐστιν τὰ μάλιστ' ἀξιαναγνωστότατα τῶν πάλαι συγγραμμάτων, ὁ θεῖος ποιητὴς ἔξοχος ἄλλων
>>25129307My opinion on Sallust has been sufficiently informed by Anon's post above. I have no need to waste my time reading Sallust. But take heart! Maybe if you read enough Sallust, you will be able to progress to more advanced juvenile literature, like Harrius Potter.
>>25128469where would that be? closest thing seems to be chapter 59 of bellum catilinae and it's not that poor
bruh the best classical chinese resource on the internet just got AI enshittifiedit makes so many simple mistakes like translating 今人之性 in xunzi as "The human nature of today" when 今 is clearly an argument marker not "today"and it's going to auto-hallucinate biographies of people BRUH ctext had such a good contributor community before this improving the library and wiki and now it's all going to vanish
>>25130016I hate AI so much. I had learned quite a bit of Tsakonian (not a classical language/dialect) few months ago and AI just made stuff up whenever you tested it. Literal shit.We can only count on real sources bros.
>>25129797That's the passage. I was shitposting I agree it's not so bad, just a bit dry coming from Caesar's detailed logistics/map drawing and Livy's dramatics
>>25130026>I asked a written-corpus-trained bot questions about a language with 2,000 elderly speakers and minimal writing and it messed up
>>25130016At least it's marked as AI so you know to take it with a grain of salt.
limitatio mea creaturae corporalis taedet me
Why do people always lie about knowing/studying ancient greek, especially biblical koine? I was in a chatroom on a totally unrelated subject and a guy kept bragging about studying biblical greek. I got naively excited, like the sperg I am, thinking I had found a (sort-of) fellow traveler. Turns out he didn’t know what really any of even the most common words, including the definite article, meant, didn’t know Greek had one, and had just been making up verbs that made sense and went around “correcting” people when they quoted the Bible, using his “knowledge of the original greek.”Anyways I corrected him and pointed him towards Athenaze, offered contact if he ever wanted to study together, and he complained to the jannies and I got banned not long after. oh well. Thanks for reading my shitty blog.
I'm reading Lord Chesterfield's letters now and found this pearl>Pray mind your Greek particularly; for to know Greek very well is to be really learned: there is no great credit in knowing Latin, for everybody knows it; and it is only a shame not to know it.
>>25131216>biblical greek>“correcting” people when they quoted the Bible, using his “knowledge of the original greek.”kek I can see the type, maybe he did use interlinear editions and maybe even did a lot of term by term analysis, maybe he can half-assedly pronounce some specific terms but of course skipped the elementary stuff like articles and particles
>>25131337Heu! Latinitatis sorores, quid debeamus respondere furcifero isti?
>>25131596tacendust omnino, immo sedere oportet et aures praebere, quod nemo adhuc fecit
Novistisne linguam 'Franco-Italicam' nomine notam, qua Graecorum 'Κοινῇ διαλέκτῳ' simili auctores Italiae septentrionalis usi sunt, praecipue Marcus Paulus qui de itineribus suis recensionem scripsit?
>>25131933No but that’s kino
>>25131933non noveram amice, tamen Neoitalica peritus patria lingua latinaque edoctus possum fortasse dextantem vel deuncem textus partem intellegere
>>25131596Nihil quid faciamus. Nobis actu'st.
>>25131337attamen hodierno die etiam anglice barbari nesciunt loqui recte, nec scribere. ista sententia ad aetas praeteritas tantum attinet.
>>25131509>yeah I know Spanish>omg I just LOVE when someone way smarter than me knows a language like Spanish>el means “was”This will live with me for the rest of my life as a lesson in how normalfags think.
>>25110479rursum
>>25133923Quo?
>>25133923mmh, difficilis res cum non eorum sim qui multum temporis spatium ad hoc praebent argumentum; nihilo secus, non licet praeterire quin memorem nonnulla me legisse Platonicae Stoicaeque philosophiarum et maxima parte me ambobus consentire, Platonicae propter Socraticam methodum et eius latam rerum metaphysicarum doctrinam(hac quoque gratiae agendae mihi nonnullis hodiernis auctoribus scholarum philosophiae perennis uti saepe nuncupata est), alteri propter mores vitae agendaeinter auctores recentiores tamen non praetereundus censeo Fridericus Nietzsche quamquam ambobus super memoratis auctoribus minime gratus fortasse, sed licet prorsus eorum quoque legere argumenta qui contraria et disputatu digna obiciunt>>25133932huc!
only real /clg/ niggas are ready for this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sSS5YxMnbQ
>>25134741hunc videonem...non intellego....... sorores...non sic...non sic......
ATTN: bros... I used to have these beginner books on learning Latin and Greek. I can't seem to come up with them online. I figure yous guys are the guys to see about this sort of thing. Any suggestions, point me in the right direction? call me a nigger as long as you call me a pretty nigger
>>25135395check the FAQ there's a lot, cool kids use Athenaze+Logos but some cooler ones begin with Homeric Greek(Pharr)
>>25135395Are you looking for those particular book or just any recommendations? If you're looking for help identifying those books, you'll have to share some more details. If you're looking for new recommendations, for Latin, the official /clg/ recommendation is the LLPSI books.
>>25135423Will do. Thank you, I missed it.>>25135660Just some recommendations. I can't remember enough about the books. They were very old too
>>25135395https://archive.org/details/vestibulumLearn both side by side eodem tempore
πάνυ δὴ βραδὺς γίγνεται ὁ δ-σωλὴν φίλοι...κατὰ πάντες τοὺς πίνακας οὐ μόνον τὸν /λιτ/
Any Sanskrit anons here who have a recommendation for beginner material?
>>25137637there's some stuff in the FAQ compiled following suggestions from the rare Sanskritanons that pop up every now and then
>>25130016not CC but they should deploy AI for things like automatic text macronization, in theory it shouldn't be too complex but then I think about those ambiguous cases and how I guess it needs to fundamentally understand the text even if it has a set of all possible cases
>>25138882I think at the end of the day that if you can’t tell esse from esse you should fucking kill yourself.
>>25139139translate this>venit Romamonly one right answer and if you get it wrong you must kill yourself
>>25138882we should preserve texts in the way they were transmitted to us, if they didn't have macrons/radicals/accents whatever they should stay like that and interpretation should be up to the reader
>>25135660>the official /clg/ recommendation is the LLPSI booksfalsethere is no 'official' anything. go suck a dickLLPSI is a good choice
>>25138198Just checked it out ty
>>25135395LLPSI obviously is a common suggestion. It comprehensively covers core grammar. Some people like pairing it with a grammar-translation textbook, often Wheelock’s. An even more grammar-light approach is Latin by the Natural method, which I used as supplementary reading to LLPSI, allowing me to achieve reading proficiency specifically in patristic latin much earlier. I can really recommend latin by the natural method because more is better, and it’s really geared towards getting one specifically capable of comprehending the vulgate early, which is the most accessible Latin, thereby allowing for very early reading of actual texts.
>>25135423>some cooler ones begin with Homeric Greek(Pharr)>reading one line at a time accompanied by a page of commentary is coolerClassical Languages, as opposed to living languages, are one of those spaces where people will use purposefully bad methods, just so they can brag about the methods, proficiency be damned.
>>25139790chill out, it's a hobby, starting from Homeric seems like a cool challenge, especially if you are particularly interested in Homer
boomp
>>25139267there's something so god damn funny about imagining someone killing themselves over mistranslating this
>>25139511If you have objections, you may raise them at the annual meeting. Until then, refrain from gainsaying the recommendations of the board.
>>25140871he hasn't attempted yet. he fears the ambiguous sentence
>>25141137Whichever I answer you’ll just choose the other and claim victory. It’s a game where I can only lose. Especially in the absence of context, which is obviously assumed by my original post, but it is funnier as >>25140871 to imagine I meant killing oneself over not being able to distinguish out of context.
>>25140160Yes, it is a hobby, which is why bragging about doing diligence traps is just tryhard larp.
Survey:What classical language(s) are you studying?How long have you studied?Can you read a single page of non-pedagogical text without stopping?How many pages have you read total (guesstimate)
>>251418781. Classical Chinese, used to study Latin2. CC 3 years, Latin 4 years (but stopped 8 years ago)3. depends on the text, I can read correspondence and prose quite fluently but everyone has to stop and think when reading stuff like philosophy4. about 100-200?
>>25141894Impressive. I suppose that goes for all philosophy. I mean more like “can read a page without needing to pull out external resources like a dictionary or grammar.” Not necessarily “has to reread sentences and ponder.” I also did not intend to imply “can read any text” just literally having fluency enough to read a native text.I guess to answer my own survey to not be a pussy I’d say.>Latin, my first and only one so far>About a year and a half>yes>not counting rereading, or stuff like Roma Aeterna, or any pedagogical texts, ~600 pages
> Read Caesar> Hardest fucking author ever> Go and read Seneca > Generally have no trouble with him> Come back to Caesar> Read him with no effort whatsoeverI'm always surprised at how non-linear language learning is
>>25141878Latin and Greek(can hardly call it 'study' anymore, I'm more in the read+compose phase, maintaining and enjoying it)Latin maybe 7 years, Greek 4-5Often yes, especially Latin, depends on the author, but there's always sneaky low frequency words that need to be checkedIdk really, a lot
Q-quid facit, fratraster?
>>25143687non teneo, quisnam istic fratraster?
Biblical Hebrew seems cool. I'm not particularly religious, so not sure it would be worth learning, but I really like the grammar of the Semitic languages. Maybe Akkadian?
>>25104032Bene, doce filiolum meum o serve docte.
ἅυτ’ ἐστιν ἡ ἀμίς ἐν ᾗ οἰκέει ὁ Ρωμαῖος
NIGER AVE HITLER
>>25145013ἅ ἅ οὐχ ἡγοῦμαι αὐτοὺς δύνασθαι ξυνεῖναι· τὸ δ' ὄπισθεν θέαμα καλόν ἐστι μέντοι
oxytone.xyz dood wat nou
>>25145751AVE
valde aegrotat filum horis americanis
>>25147636Habesne vel medicamen vel herbas o medice? Tantas placentas edi ut me admitteret Orcus
Gay Furries complaining about ecclesiastical (traditional Roman) pronunciation.
>>25148053I use a thick Nigerian accent personally
>>25148236bene
>>25147705filorum languescentium tabularumque tardescentium medicamen? utinam, ranula, sed rarius silphii habetur
>>25148053What if I think it's aesthetically fine but the lack of vowel length is a problem for poetry?
>>25135395Don’t do solely grammar-translation unless you want to be unable to read picrel after 60 years of study. I’m only partially joking.
Definitely not the best cover so I don't know how long they will last.Can you guess guess how much I bought them for (in euros) ? It's only the ancient text.Winner gets good luck for a week!
>>25148884im jelly~80€?
>>25148549What percentage of the corpus is that remotely relevant for? Especially if you add up the whole corpus and not just 2 generations of pagan aristocrats.
>>25149127To my understanding there were still some people writing quantitative meter even in the Middle Ages, and especially in the Renaissance.
>>25149136kinda true at least from the authors I rolled here I got texts in meter(hexameters and elegiac couplets) from the last 1000 years I think at least twice
>>25149136How is the way you pronounce consonants a barrier to just altering your pronunciation of the vowels for the narrow purpose of reciting poetry. People don’t converse in meter much after all.
>>25149416And, conceding that, why not just use reconstructed specifically for reciting poetry, and stop getting butthurt about people chanting Dies Irae in traditional Roman pronunciation.
Ok, I want to learn>Greek>Latin>Russian>GermanPlease tell me>Why I'm stupid for wanting to learn those>How to start>Your favorite book in any of thoseOk thanks guys :)
>>25149416But the nature of what poetic meter is is that it takes the natural rhythms of speech as a basis and arranges them in a patterned way. If you speak the language a poet was writing in, just reading the poem out loud should make the meter obvious.>>25149419I agree that traditional pronunciation makes sense for Dies Irae- because that's what its author would have used!
>>25110479rollan again these are fun
Are there any sanskritfriends lurking?? I have an idea for a collaborative translation project and I want to know if there's anyone else on this board who would be willing to participate
>>25149504Not a sanskritfriend, but I'm kind of curious what the idea is.
>>25149466πάλιν θηρίου πέρι λόγοι τινοὶ ποιητέοι μοι ὡς τὸ πάρος περ πλὴν ἢ τὸ μῆκος διξοί, πεῖραν λάβω Ἰαστὶ τὸν ἀγῶνα πειραίνειν ὅκως ἐπίσταμαι· φιλέω 'γὼ τὸν ἐρίθακον, ὁ μὴν γὰρ φίλτατος πέλει τῶν πρὸς ἐμὲ θαμὰ ἐσφοιτέοντων ὀρνίθων ἐμοῦ σφισὶ ψῖχας παρατιθέντος παρὰ τῇ θυρίδ' ὅκως τὰ σφέτερα χρώματα κᾀόλας ἀϊκὰς ἕδωμαι ἐσορέων· ἄλλους καλοὺς καὶ εὐθρίχας σπιζίτους θηέομαι ἀπικνεομένους ἀλλὰ τὸ στῆθος αὐτοῦ οὕτω χαρίεν ὄν διὰ τὸ φλογοειδὲς ἐρύθημα νίκην παρέχει οἱτῶν ἐς νῦν ᾔσθημαι κατὰ τὴν σφετέρην ὀξύτητ' ἄξιον εἶπαι ὅτ' ὑπάρχει τῷ ἐσορέοντ' ὄπισθε τοῦ ὑέλου 'γγύτερον προσελθεῖν ἡσυχῆ μὴ φοβέοντί μινἄδην νυ λόγων ἔστω παρ' ἐμοῦ, ἐκατὸν ἤθροισα
>>25110479i don't want to roll>0已に現代日本語の知りたれば、学び初みたりやすしらむ。又、古典の文芸や歴史を習はばよ、さへ日本語の文法を良う分かまほしわ。吾が何年以前古典を学び初みてどもいかゞよみび過ごしし時間が多からじ。ལྟ་བུའི་བོད་སྐད་ལ་ངས་སླབ་བར་འགོས་གྱིས། བོད་ཡིག་གྱིས་བརྔམས་པ་ལྟ་པར་ཐོག་དང། སུ་ཞིག་ཤར་གལིང་གི་ལུང་པས་བོད་ཡིག་བལངས་བར་གྱུར་ཅིག་ཏུ་ལབ་པ་མཐོང་ངོ། ཡང་དེ་ནས་བོད་སྐད་སླབ་བར་འགོས་སོ།>1ལ་ཊ་ཝིཡ། །ཡང་གཞུང་འབྲེལ་༼ ལ་ཊ་ཝིཡ་མི་སེར་རྒྱལ་ཁབ་དེ ༽། །ཡུ་རོབ་ན་ལུང་པ་ཞིག་ཡིན། ཨེསུ་ཊོ་ནིཡ་འོག་ན་ཀྱི་དང་ལི་ཐུ་ཨེ་ནཡ་སྟེང་དུ་ཀྱི་ན་ཡོད། འདི་ཀྱི་མི་འབོར་༡༨༤ཁྲི་ཡིན་བ་དང་ས་མཐོང་༧༥ཁྲི་ཀི་ལོ་མི་ཊར་གྲུ་བཞི། གཅིག་པོའི་གཞུང་འབྲེལ་སྐད་རིགས་དེ་ལ་ཊ་ཝིཡ་ན་ལ་ཊ་ཝིཡ་སྐད་ཡིན་ནའི་གཞན་སྐད་རིགས་རྣམས་ལྟ་བུའི་ཨུ་རུ་སུ་སྐད་དང་ལ་ཊ་ག་ལིཡ་སྐད་དང་ལི་ཝོ་ནིཡ་སྐད་ཀྱང་ཡན།༡༩༩༡་ལོ་ན་སུའུ་ལན་ནང་ན་ཀྱི་ལ་ཊ་ཝིཡས་མི་བརྟེན་པར་སགྲོག་གོ། འདི་ཚེ་ན་འདིས་ཡུ་རོབ་ཀྱི་མྙམ་སྦྱོར་དང་ན་ཊོ་ནས་ཡོད། ལ་ཊ་ཝིཡས་ཊུ་ཊོ་ནིཡ་དེ་ནས་སུ་ཝེ་དེན་དེ་ནས་པའོ་ལན་དེ་ནས་ཨུ་རུ་སུ་ཀྱི་དབྱང་སྒྱུར་འོག་ན་ཀྱི་དུས་རབས་རྣམས་ལ་མྱོང་བར་གོས་སོ།>3無政府資本主義は思想の教の一つ、なじは政府なし自由、随意交換、財産権など、を伝ふ主義たり。政府の存在を深かりたる反対しぬ、激しく罪だけは罪考へぬ、などの意見をおはしたる。財産権や無政府の確信をこの主義は共産主義反対おはすわ。無政府資本主義者が全ての政府は暴力より権限を持ちたるとなむを思ひおはす、以来租税は盗難の意見たり。諸人、主に「真実の」無政府者、は資本の存在ならば階層があり、そうゆゑに無政府資本主義は真実の無政府主義あらずをなむ論じおはしたる。 >4ད་ལྟ་ན་ཨི་རན་ནང་དུ་ཀྱི་དམག་དེ་ཁྲིམས་ལུགས་སྟངས་འཛིན་ནིན་བ་དང་ལམ་སང་འཁོགས་དགོས་སོ། ནའི་ཨ་མེ་རི་ཀ་དང་ཨིས་རཡེལ་གྱི་རྐྱེན་བུ་རྫུན་པའི་སྔོན་འགྲོ་ན་རྩོམ་བར་ཐག་ཅོད་དོ། དེ་ན་གང་ཡང་ཉིང་རྡུལ་མཚོན་ཆ་མེད། དང་དེ་ན་དེ་འདྲ་མཚོན་ཆ་མིན་གྱུར་རོ།གང་ཡིན་ཟེར་ན་འདི་དམག་སྙིང་པོ་མེད་པ་ཡིན་སྟེ། ཨ་མེ་རི་ཀ་དང་ཨིས་རཡེལ་དམ་པའི་དེན་དུ་ལོག་པར་ཡིན། ན་མ་རབས་མིན། ཐེངས་གཅིག་ན་དམག་དེ་འརྫོགས་པ་ཡིན་བ་ན། ཨི་རན་གྱིས་སོས་འགྱུར་སྟེ། མཐར་ཅིན་ཆེས་ཏུ་འགྲོ་བར། ཡང་མང་པོ་སྐྱེས་པ་འཇུག་པ་འགྲོ་རོ།>6お氣に入る生き物の一匹は岩狸たり。なじかさやうに思し定めてば、説明せ給ふ。岩狸が像に間近し生く親族が動物、距離は七五百万年ばかりたり。西班牙の名の成り立ちの一つはフェニキア言葉の「岩狸つ島」となむから来にけりが思ひたれども、単独の合意めや。今だ岩狸の種類の重量は三斤から八斤までたれども、昔、幾ら種類一六零貫から三四五貫まで増𬼀付きにける。岩狸の寿命は九年から一四年までなり。岩狸の生き範囲は撒哈拉以南阿弗利加の全地や亜剌比亜の西岸たる。岩狸こそ異なこゑから人気に成りおはしましにける。
>>25149760>7ངས་སྐད་རིགས་ལྟ་བུའི་ཅི་ཞིག་གམ་བྱ་རིམ་སྒྲིག་པ་བྱ་དོད་གྱིས། སྐད་རིགས་ཀྱི་ས྄ོབ་པ་དང་གལོག་ཀ྄ད་འབྲེལ་ཞིང་པ་ཆོས་རྣམས་དགའ་ཞིང་བར་ཐག་ཆོད་དོ། འདི་ཚེ་ན་ལས་ཀ་ཞིག་མེད།ཅི་ཞིག་འབྲེལ་ཞིག་པ་སྐད་རིགས་ཀྱི་རྐྱེན་གྱིས་ཀྱི་ངས་དེ་འདྲ་ཆོས་རྣམས་ལེགས་ཏུ་བྱེད་ནུས་བཞིན་ཡིན་དང། གལོག་ཀླད་ཀྱི་ཆོས་རྣམས་ཀྱང་ལེགས་ཏུ་ནུས་ཡིན། ངས་སློབ་ཀྲིད་གྱི་ལས་ཀ་མ་དགའ་ཞིང་གྱིས། གཞན་མི་ནི་ལྟན་ཅིག་ཏུ་དང་བྱེད་པ་རྙོག་གྲ་ཚ་པོ་ཡིན་ནམ་དེ་ལྟ་བུ་ཏུ་ང་སེམས་སོ། འདི་སྙམ་ནས་གལོག་ཀླད་ཀྱི་ལས་ཀས་ཆེས་ཏུ་སླ་བ་ཡིན། གྱིས འདི་ལས་ཀས་རྣམས་ན་མང་པ་མི་ལྟན་ཅིག་ཏུ་བྱེད་པ་མེད། དང་དེ་འདྲ་ལས་ཀ་རྣམས་ན་གོང་མ་བལ་སློབ་ཀྲིད་གྱི་ལས་ཀ་ནས་ཡོད། >8吾のお氣に入るボードは /int/, /jp/, などたり。 /int/で面白く話し合ひと思ふ、/lang/はだけのスレとこのうちをりんと見りたる、さへさボードその他となむ内容つスレが面白くたる。/jp/のモデレーションをばしはまずき、さ言ひたればこのボードのモデレーターこそが適当なスレを外しおはしたる、実はあのスレはこうこそ自身に好まずのことに就きてわや。他のボードは面白からずと思ふ、それから使ひおはせず今だ。
>>25149435classical languages unless you are planning to make a career out of it are a hobby fundamentally, hence I can't tell you you are stupid for it any more than for collecting stamps or anything that takes your timemaybe the motivation can be called stupid, but as a hobby it's not>how to startdon't rush multiple at once, pick the one you are definitely more interested in, usually, between Greek and Latin, the latter is what people start with, but if you really want to learn Greek, learn Greekthe FAQ has a bunch of recs, to each its own, give a try to the natural method books but don't let it stop you from also using a good old regular grammar book besides>favoriteHomer for Greek, really made it worth itfor Latin, probably some comedies of PlautusI also studied some German but haven't invested too much into it to have a favorite book
>>25149524My idea is to translate a selection of Rigvedic hymns. I'd translate a handful from books 2-8 (the oldest layer) first. I already have most of what I want from book 2 and I was wondering if anyone else would want to do the other books.
>>25149760>已にjust why,
>>25149798to make you suffernow go find the (1) 旧字体
I picked up a copy of wheelocks today. Am I reading this correctly that “magnus” is pronounced “ma-ngus?”
>>2514890411 Euros for all of them , kek.
>>25149760>>25149762unless that's classical tibetan get out of this thread
>>25150078no, it's kind of a natural sound when you try to spell the two syllables mag and nus together, try it, the natural tendency is to nasalize the g since it's immediately followed by a nasal consonantthe sound is the nasal velar consonant you can hear here https://www.ipachart.com , ŋ, click on it
>>25150494>>25150078Is it the same sound in Italian, like in aGNello?
>>25150546not quite that's the palatal version of the sound, almost there, rather, your tongue should be in the same position as when you pronounce k and g(hard g as in goose) but the sound a nasalized version of ghttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nasal_consonant has a table with the sounds, the gn in Italian is right above the target sound(velar, voiced)
>>25150254damn I thought at least 7-8 € each
>>25150563Isn’t the nasal velar voiced consonant rendered ng like in the word thing, making it ma-ngus?
>>25150868Pronounce the first syllable with your nose
>>25150871So maŋnus then?
>>25150478both are classical languages from 1000+ years ago, neither is using modern grammar or vocab (aside from words for new inventions) which should be clear at a glance
>>25150899Right! Why didn't you just say you knew IPA in the first place? Could have saved a lot of hassle.
>>25151030I’m not used to other people knowing ipa
>>25151030Last question for now. Th, ph, and ch are all just. The aspirated versions of the stops right?
>>25151114Fair enough, though it seems reasonable to have a slightly higher prior for it on a thread full of language nerds like this one.>>25151130In Classical Latin, yes. (At least for educated speakers; peasants probably would have just merged them with plain p, t, c. And when they shifted to fricatives in Greek people would have started approximating that.)
>>25151136Thanks. I just wasn’t familiar with /clg/‘s game.
>>25151114Wiktionary has reconstructed classical as well as ecclesiastical pronunciations in IPA.
>>25151591>>25151591
