Thrice greatest edition>τὸ πρότερον νῆμα·>>25103936>Μέγα τὸ Ἑλληνιστί/Ῥωμαϊστί·https://mega dot nz/folder/FHdXFZ4A#mWgaKv4SeG-2Rx7iMZ6EKw>Mέγα τὸ ANE·https://mega dot nz/folder/YfsmFRxA#pz58Q6aTDkwn9Ot6G68NRg>Work in progress FAQhttps://rentry dot co/n8nrkoAll Classical languages are welcome.
oxytone.xyz aside from the homepage still seems kill but most of these authors should be available elsewhere
>>25151591Christian Latin it is.
>>25151673>John 1Holy kino. Always worth another reread, though I already spent a lot of time on the vulgate today. I read something like chapter 10-23 of acts for the first time today.Anyone who is skeptical of patristic latin but struggling to get reading volume and fluency built, I can highly recommend grinding out the gospels.
>>25151673rotam verso
>>25151681>μάρτυς γάρ μου ὁ θεός ὡς ἐπιποθῶ πάντας ὑμᾶς ἐν σπλάγχνοις Χριστοῦ Ἰησοῦ>Testis enim mihi est Deus, quomodo cupiam omnes vos in visceribus Jesu Christi.>Nam vos omnes (testis mihi Deus est) digna Jesu Christo adfectione desideroIn this rare instance, the literal translation of Jerome mogs Castellio's. It retains the esoteric notion of V.I.T.R.I.O.L.
>>25151598κλῆρον πάλλω
requiescas in pace, Carole Norris
>>25152315>Theophrastus' charactersbhahahahaha I've read a couple and the chapter on βδελυρία is basically "we do a little trolling">οἷος ἀπαντήσας γυναιξὶν ἐλευθέραις ἀνασυράμενος δεῖξαι τὸ αἰδοῖον>ἐν θεάτρῳ κροτεῖν, ὅταν οἱ ἄλλοι παύωνται, καὶ συρίττειν, οὓς ἡδέως θεωροῦσιν οἱ λοιποί>ὅταν σιωπήσῃ τὸ θέατρον, ἀνακύψας ἐρυγεῖν, ἵνα τοὺς καθημένους ποιήσῃ μεταστραφῆναι>καλέσαι δὲ τῶν παρόντων ὀνομαστί τινα, ᾧ μὴ συνήθης ἐστί.>καὶ σπεύδοντας δέ που ὁρῶν περιμεῖναι κελεῦσαι
Have any of you guys studied the Anglo-Norman dialect of Old French?
Anyone know about any other Romaboo media?
>>25153474There's a sitcom called Plebs. I watched it a long time ago so I don't remember if it was good or not but it's set in Rome
>>25153484Much appreciated. When the Romans speak like bongs, you know it's good.
>>25153497Λῆρον ληρεῖς
>>25153474Link related is a silent movie adaptation of Daphnis and Chloe, a Roman era Greek language novel from the 200s AD or so.https://m.ok.ru/video/10249036892881Thematically it is clearly influenced by the fledgling Christian religion, notably the pederast character Gnathon- depicted here as an elderly sissy and degenerate.
>>25153551I've never watched a silent film in my life but that does look interesting. I read the book a while back and enjoyed the pirate arc.
>>25153608I grew up on silent films. They’re an acquired taste but I love them. Daphnis and Chloe is one of my faves.The scene with the pirates raiding Mytilene and killing Dorcon was originally planned but it would’ve cost too much to film so they scrapped it. After Chloe turns down Dorcon, he’s just never mentioned again in the movie. >> The film remains faithful to the ancient work. It was based on the translation of the original by Ilias Voutieridis, published in 1922. The bucolic landscape was satisfactorily represented and the heroes were dressed in ancient fashion. The film offers discrepancies: Laskos did not add the raid of the bandits and the Mithymnians, due to high production costs.[1]
>>25153541ὁ τυφλὸς τοὺς βλέποντας ὑπερακοντίζει
>>25151598Dead nigger site for dead nigger languages, lol
>>25151591videre ac rectificare interiora terrae difficile est :(
Honestly the chapters of LLPSI should start with the grammar explanations instead of end.
>>25153624That's a shame but it's fun to see how someone else has imagined a work and then flesh it out
>>25151705There’s a Martin Luther quote sort of like this where he talks about shitting and how he felt the Devil leaving him from shitting.
>>25153811You’re supposed to reread the chapter
>>25153759That's why it's called ΤΟ ΜΕΓΑ ΕΡΓΟΝ
>>25151673rollan
In Orphic Hymn 55, Aphrodite is called λύκαινα. A she-wolf nursed Romulus and Remus. She is also the mother of Aeneas. Kino.
>>25157167>Liber Sapientiae, Capitulum Primumsince I know Greek this was also a good chance to do some comparison, it's kinda weird how on one hand Jerome uses Greek borrowings like zelum and zelare but on the other hand in this phrase>ἔκτισεν γὰρ εἰς τὸ εἶναι τὰ πάντα καὶ σωτήριοι αἱ γενέσεις τοῦ κόσμουhe chooses to translate γενέσεις with nationes>Creavit enim ut essent omnia, et sanabiles fecit nationes orbis terrarumnot that etymologically it's bad, but it feels like it could create a different interpretation as "nation" i.e ethnos
>>25157304Lykania (translated sometimes as ‘wolf woman’) was also the name of the prostitute in Daphnis and Chloe. Wolf-like imagery was associated with deviant forms of love in some works. Hence names in Longus such as Lykania and Gnathon.
>>25157389>γενέσεις with nationesPerhaps using the baseline definition "the births of Creation" >>25157397Good point as we also see with Lycaon and how he ended up. Also the wolf in general is a symbol of the unfettered powers of nature, hence the bad aspect of Venus as Aphrodite Porne (especially relevant in our times) instead of the generative force that begets (Mother Nature, Isis). Then there is her complement Mars/Ares who seeded the twins in the Vestal Virgin, whence the Martial Roman race. Finally, the she-wolf could be the protective instincts of the mother willing to kill for her kids, tooth and nail.
>>25157487+5Yes, there is a strong thematic and linguistic connection between the term Lykania (or Lykaina/Lycainion) used in Orphic Hymn 55 to Aphrodite and the character Lycainion in Longus's novel Daphnis and Chloe. Both usages revolve around the role of a "she-wolf" figure as a facilitator of erotic, often instructive, sexual experience. Connection Analysis:Orphic Hymn 55 (to Aphrodite): The hymn refers to Aphrodite with the epithet Lykaina (λύκαινα), translated as "sceptered she-wolf" or "she-wolf". In this context, it highlights the goddess as the driving force behind the "savage" or "unbridled" passions of nature and mankind. It implies a untamed, predatory aspect of love that brings mortals into "necessary bands".Daphnis and Chloe (Longus): In Book 3, Lycainion is a "young wife" who teaches the innocent shepherd boy Daphnis the mechanics of lovemaking. Her name, directly derived from the same root (she-wolf), acts as a direct link to this untamed erotic power.Thematic Link: Scholars note that Longus intentionally plays on this association. Lycainion acts as a "sacred prostitute" teaching the hero the "divine mysteries of love," echoing the Orphic concept of love as a divine force (driven by Aphrodite/Pan) that necessitates sexual initiation. Both contexts use the image of the "she-wolf" (Lycainion) to represent a necessary,, instinctive, and pedagogical transition from innocence to sexual maturity. HellenionHellenion +5In essence, Lycainion in Daphnis and Chloe is an earthly embodiment of the Lykaina Aphrodite—the wild, instinctual, and transformative power of love described in the Orphic Hymn
I’m moving on to caput II in wheelocks and wanted to check something. I checked online but wanted to get real time opinions instead of old forum posts>you ought not to praise meMē laudāre non dēbēsIs that correct? And for a less complex translation >you owe meMē dēbēs
>>25157389Yeah the only real criticism I’ve seen of Jerome that holds much water besides his mistake in Genesis is that some of his word choice has different nuance. But it’s possible that we don’t fully grasp the connotation as moderns. For example “Dominus regit me.” Even for example his translation of Moses having “cornua” when he came down from Sinai could very easily be some ancient Hebrew symbolism that we just totally lack context for.
>>25157713first sentence is fine(although debeo as ought is somewhat less frequent classically)second though should be debes mihi
>>25157713Translations inspire so much doubt in one’s own ability lol.>>25157751Yeah debeo is just what Wheelock starts with IIRC. My own grammar coursebook was very derivative of Wheelock and also used debeo, I think just copying.I think, as an intermediate now, I really want to make an effort to glance at synonyms as much as possible so I can build a semantic web in my head. I wish there was a good in print monolingual latin dictionary for that reason.
>>25152492>>καὶ σπεύδοντας δέ που ὁρῶν περιμεῖναι κελεῦσαιGem>>25157750>his mistake in GenesisOooo what's that
>>25157927Oh he inexplicably translated what should have been “ispe” as “ipsa” in Gen 3:15; influencing mariology by mistake, the idea that “she” (Eve) would “crush the head of the snake” (defeat Satan) as opposed to “he” (Adam) since Christ is the new Adam and Mary the new Eve. It’s not really significant on any actual dogmas relating to Mary in Catholicism, but it appears in art a lot.>Inimicitias ponam inter te et mulierem, et semen tuum et semen illius: ipsa conteret caput tuum, et tu insidiaberis calcaneo ejus.However, although the Septuagint and the Masoeretic Hebrew use a masculine pronoun, I can see how maybe in the context of the rest of the verse Jerome made the slip up. I am relating this second hand though since I don’t really know much koine at all.>καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν
>>25157927>>25157969Additionally, it’s worth noting that the Nova Vulgata fixes the mistranslation.>Inimicitias ponam inter te et mulierem, et semen tuum et semen illius: ipsum conteret caput tuum, et tu insidiaberis calcaneo eiusBut yeah AFAIK it’s the only actual outright mistake in the whole thing. Everything else is a matter of tone or connotation, or again us as readers probably lacking the ability to understand what it means when it says Moses had “cornua.”For example, again, the Lord as “ruler” instead of “pastor” is often criticized. But, like, the Lord IS our ruler, it’s not like scripture doesn’t say that constantly, and the tone difference here is over exaggerated by theological liberals mad that the almighty ruler of all could be translated as ruling/leading rather than just shepherding.So the ipsa thing is the only one I can think of that is A. An outright mistake, and B. Has any meaningful theological impact. That shows how impressive the vulgate was for its time as the first and for a long time only complete edition of the Bible (cause technically the septuagint and GNT are 2 separate texts) and it was also made by a single top scholar trained in proper ciceronian Latin.
Can someone help me with this section from Piers Plowman? I'm totally lost here. >‘Sum rex, sum Princeps, neutrum fortasse deinceps; >O qui iura regis Christi specialia regis, >Hoc quod agas melius iustus es, esto pius!I understand the first verse just fine: "I am a king, I am a prince, perhaps neither in due time." But I have no clue what to make of the rest. The second line has something about the laws of king Christ, but is "agas" from the third verse supposed to be the verb for this?
>>25158038I can see it working if 'iustus es' was like between parentheses not like that, it's kinda confusing indeed; paraphrasing a bit>Oh you who rule by the laws of king Christ>Be pious!(you are just) so that you may do this better!
>>25157751Why does mihi or mē come after the verb? Latin likes SOV but I know with cases and what not you can play a little fast and loose with word order for emphasis.
>>25158169both are fine, the SOV is really more of a statistical thing rather than a rule, sorry if it created some confusion I didn't mean to reverse the order as a correction
>>25158015the cornu(t)a thing is interesting, if one searches the hebrew word קָרַן on e.g wiktionary it does indeed come up with two meanings, one is a noun that can mean both horns and rays(of light) but also corner(cornua also appears with this meaning in other passages) but also a verb meaning to shine, which is the broad meaning of the septuagint; I'm guessing, but any Hebrewanon is welcome to correct, that because back then the script was purely an abjad, this created perhaps a confusion between the two terms
>>25157969>>25158015Very interesting. I'll have to jump into this rabbit hole. The issue of translation itself is a hot topic, especially concerning warring sects, and post hoc editing pro or contra. At a quick glance, the Hebrew does in fact use the masculine pronoun Heh-Vau-Aleph to reference Zayin-Resh-Ayin (zera, 'sēmen', masculine) and Castellio uses illud to reference sēmen (neuter), "her seed shall crush your head." Then there is the LXX using the masculine αὐτός but σπέρμα is neuter...post Tower of Babel problems. This will be fun to chew on.
>>25158284Kabbalists have fun with this kind of thing. Their multi-layered interpretation of BRAShITh from Gen 1:1 alone would make your head spin and a normie rabbi's explode.
>>25158125That could be it, or at least something close. Tibi gratias ago
>>25158038>>25158125I did some digging, and the Penn Commentary vol. 1 agrees (more or less)>153–59 (B 132–38): „Sum Rex ... metas“: „[You say] ‘I am King, I am Ruler’; neither perhaps [will you be] in the future. O you who administer the sublime laws of Christ the King, in order to do that better, as you are just, be pious! Naked law needs to be clothed by you with piety [or pity]. Sow the grain you wish to reap: if the law is nakedly administered [lit. stripped bare] by you, then let [judgment] be measured out [to you] according to the letter [lit. naked law]. If piety is sown [by you], may you reap according to piety.“ [...] these lines emphasize that he is subject to whatever kind of law he puts forth: promoting a mercilessly „naked“ law will yield the same back to him. Assuming that he is just, he is asked to cover that with pity [...]The "iustus es" is annoying. I wonder if the "es" could actually be imperative here, "be just! Be pious!" You don't need a conjunction between imperatives, e.g., in the Aulularia>abi intro occlude ianuam!>Go inside (and) lock the door!The future imperative is more legalese, so I suppose the sense would be "you must be just, (and) you shall be pious," though I can't find any other examples of mixed present and future imperatives. If it's poetry, I suppose it could just be motivated by the meter.
humilem gradum cortisolis habeamus
>>25158648>the meterthat also sounds weird, it reads properly imho only as hexameter-hexameter-pentameter, at least it lets you exclude 'ēs'imperative 'es' I think is also somewhat rare
let's try again, I changed a few from last time to leave more choice for each as well as some extra randomness, any comments/criticisms are welcomeComposition challenge:write a 50 words(minimum) paragraph, roll last digit for theme:0 - talk about a hobby you have1 - describe a country of choice2 - describe one of your favorite books' theme3 - go on wikipedia, click on random article and describe what it is about4 - comment on a recent political event5 - recount a story from your life6 - describe one of your favorite animals7 - write about one of your favorite historical figures8 - describe one of your favorite meals/dishes9 - whatever you wantdubs - 100 words, trips - 150 words, and so on...
>>25151591where can i find facsimile pdfs for Medieval Portuguese works?
>>25160555let's see. nice trips
>>25160814ma Dia, culum mihi detergo re publica: plebs enim superbus sum noloque pupa fieri divitibus. quid in ludis accidat ignoro, quia me properantem morantur multis mendaciis. per Iovem iuro rem publicam mihi magno odio esse.
>>251605551. America estin megale kai kalle. Mounykhion 2026, Basileos estin Donald Trump. Basileos etan Biden tou 2024. Polis moi estin Chicago. En Polis, Diaspora Aethiopianae Gignesthai Enareis tou Democrat party.Extremely beginner level Greek. Try not to be too hard.
>>25160890severus ac iustus(desunt autem quindecim verba, censorem certiorem faciam qui mulctam indicet)
>>25160946centum mitte: uno colapho infringam. at conabor iterum quod illam regulam non vidi. da mihi precor numerum benignum o cælestes
>>25160992aha!
>>25160992omnia volo. venite mecum sodales: vobis prædas, honorem, famam immortalem, vires sine termino, decus bellorum donabo. nam per exploratores de terra abundante extra fines nostros factum sum certior. vobis cum voce magna dico nos victores futuros nobisque magnifica pompa in Urbe fore. ad incognita venite mecum sodales: Fortuna enim audacibus arridet. gloria virtute tecta nunquam cadet; cor leonis sit lorica nobis. ad Galliam, ad Germaniam, etiam ad Britanniam proficiscamur
>>25161044magnificam pompam*
https://archive.org/details/CommentariesOnTheGallicWarCaesarCompletelyParsedBookI
https://archive.org/details/completely-parsed-cicero-oration-1
https://archive.org/details/fully-parsed-horace-odes-translation-pub-co
>>25161362>>25161365>>25161369I'm using these together with google lens, asking it about anything that's unclear, the grammatical commentary/explanation/footnotes are rather cryptic without it. The third book doesn't even have a list of abbreviations. Help with studying is probably my favorite use of AI, I used it for a copy of Euclid's Elements to understand footnotes too, unfortunately it makes mistakes sometimes.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.31822003632080
>>25161440I'm a beginner. I'm not sure whether poetry is good for a beginner. Probably not.
>>25152492>ἐν θεάτρῳ κροτεῖν, ὅταν οἱ ἄλλοι παύωνται, καὶ συρίττειν, οὓς ἡδέως θεωροῦσιν οἱ λοιποίI actually kek'd
>>25160936chaire batrache, dia ti Romaiois grammasi gegraphas? remember the nu in estin is mobile, i.e it appears in front of vowels or at the end of sentences, so you don't need it before megale, Donald or Chicago; year is expressed in this case with the dative, work on your declensions as well
>>25161747America Kai megale kai kalle. Te Mounykhion 2026, Basileos Donald Trump. Basileos etan Biden. Polis moi Chicago. En Polis, Diaspora Aethiopiae gignesthai Enareis tou Democrat party.Here. Touched up a bit.
>>25161747I tried having some fun with the prompt at least. ‘Basileos’ for president and ‘Enareis’ for trannies.
>>25161416Good ideas.Not shitting on your method at all, perfectly valid. Probably focusing on Caesar is best if you’re a beginner because his vocabulary is small enough that you’ll be ready to actually read him sooner. I believe “talks with Caesar,” the old direct method book, which is worth checking out to maybe read a line’s section in there after you read a line in your completely parsed book, stops at chapter 20 because the author said pretty much the whole core of Latin grammar, or at least the bulk of it, is contained within those pages. (People in universities were at one point required to memorize book 1 entirely). I figure your method, if you got through the first 20 odd chapters of Caesar would pay off with some pretty meaningful reading ability, within Caesar, and integrating talks with Caesar may help a lot. I personally started with LLPSI but in hindsight I think starting with something like parsed Caesar plus talks with Caesar would have been better.But, it is funny that you get dudes online who will do something like this and then say “I read Virgil, Caesar, and Cicero” with the implication that their Latin is advanced enough to actually read it.
>>25162138This brings to mind some classics scholars who confess to using translations next to the original text. The old guard was built different
>>25160555δός μοι καλοὺς ἀριθμούς
Here's one for Virgil's Ecologues. What Greek works are available in these editions?https://books.google.com/books?id=Xx1hAAAAcAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=fr&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q&f=false
>>25162275εἶεν· μῦθον λέγω ὅτ' ἦν μειράκιον, τότε γὰρ πολυετὴς μανία διεσκεδάννυτ' ἐνθάδ' ἐν ταῖς ἡσπερίαις χώραις περὶ τῶν ἑκτογειόνων καλουμένων, τοῦτ' ἐστιν, τῶν ἀνθρωποειδῶν ζῴων κάτω ἐκ τοῦ αἰθέρος ἐρχομένων οὕς οἱ τῷ μύθῳ πιστεύοντες ἡγοῦνται δυναμένους εἰς τοὺς βούλονται ἀστέρας μηχανήμασι θαυμαστοῖς ἥκειν· ἡμεῖς νεανίσκοι ὄντες κάρτ' ἐσπουδάζομεν ἐκείνους τοὺς μύθους τοσοῦτον ὥστε πεῖραν λαβεῖν ἐν ταῖς πέριξ ὕλαις ἐρευνᾶν ἴχνι' ἀυτῶν· ἡλίου ποτε καταδύντος ἐβαδίζομεν δύο ἢ τρεῖς ἑταῖροι ἐν μύχῳ ὕλης τινὸς οὐ πολλῷ ἀπεχούσης τῆς ἡμετέρας κώμης καὶ ἰδού, ἦν τι κινοῦμενον διὰ τῶν πυκνῶν θάμνων, κατὰ τὸ εἰκὸς κύων ἢ ὗς ἤ τι ἄλλον θηρίον ἐὰν νῦν σκοπῶ ὅ τι ἄν ἦν, ἀλλ' διὰ τὴν εἴρηκα σπουδὴν πεποίθαμέν τιν' ἑκτογείονον εἶναι· κάρτ' ἐκπεπληγμένοι φύγαδ' ἐτρεψάμεθ' εὐθὺς καὶ ἀποφεύγων ἔπταισ' ἐν πηλῷ ὥστ' οἴκαδε ἦλθον ὅλως πεπαλαγμένος ἅ ἅ ἅ
>>25162138I read a few chapters of LLPSI. Then I lost motivation to go on. I might try again with Neumann's Companion. I'm trying a variety of methods. I just like to see different methods. I'm not choosing one to stick with. It can be a good thing to stick with one book and not jump around too much, I kind of have that problem. But I also think it's good to get things from different angles, and that it's just interesting to see different methods. I looked at Talks With Caesar before but wasn't impressed, but I might have a look at it again.
>>25162486That book is not like the ones I posted. Your book has copious footnotes, but those footnotes don't have any parsing in them. Parsing a text means stating the part of speech for each word, case, tense, mood, number, gender, stating which word modifies or governs which other word, which case a word governs etc.
>>25162486>What Greek works are available in these editions?https://libgen.li/edition.php?id=137559234https://annas-archive.gl/md5/a6421380957da74257a09c06e4e7fee0https://annas-archive.gl/md5/6c64a6ec3e84d50fa6bf55b68ffcce36https://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/1.htmhttps://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/collection?collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman
>>25162626That book does parse every word. Every punctuation mark.There is no unparsed bit of text in the book.
>>25162714Half this links is viruses man
>>25163080Troll
>>25162502>μύθους τοσοῦτον ὥστε πεῖραν λαβεῖν ἐν ταῖς πέριξ ὕλαις ἐρευνᾶν ἴχνι' ἀυτῶνcharming story ὦ 'γαθέ
>>25154313Fellini Satyricon (Petronius) and a Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum (Plautus’ Pseudolous) are two other classic film adaptations of Roman lit. I didn’t mention them at first cause I assumed if you browsed a thread like this you would def have heard of them already. Fellini’s film uses large segments of Vulgar Latin. Basically any dialogue that’s not the main characters or directly advanced the plot is in Vulgar Latin.
>>25162609Throw shit at the wall and see what sticks. Revisit old textbooks at a later date and try new stuff. No problem with it.
>>25163423I'm learning for fun, because I enjoy learning, and enjoy reading textbooks, and enjoy comparing pedagogical methods. I don't have any pressure to learn a certain amount per month, I'm not competing with anyone, I'm not in the business of showing what I've achieved to anyone for validation, I'm not in a rush. I do whatever I like. Lots of people only care about utility—squeeze juice here, squeeze juice there—I don't.
>>25163377>if you browsed a thread like this you would def have heard of them alreadyHehe most of the time I just see textbook wars but I appreciate the recs. Will have to find time to watch these as well but unfortunately not much free time nowadays
>>25164180Well not because they’re mentioned before in these threads but just because they’re very famous movies esp among people who’d be called the /lit/ board’s crowd. I didn’t want to be like DAE did you see SHAWSHANK REDEMPTION before??! Like a Reddit user
Εἰμὶ σκλάβος τοῦ μισθοῦ.
>>25164853ἔοικ' ἔσεσθαι καὐτὸς οὐ πολλῷ ἐκ τοῦδε· ἔστι καὶ περισσὴ σχολὴ ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν τοῖς δηθὰ μὴ μισθαρνοῦσιν ἀλλ' οὐδὲν ἧττον ποθήσω αὐτήν
Are there any resources where you can practice pronouncing Ancient Greek which give English phonetic descriptions? e.g.ἄνθρωπος (an-thro-pos) I found this website that gives audio pronunciations of the Ancient Greek words (are there any others?) but not English phonetic descriptions:http://atticgreek.org/pronunc/practiceUnit3.html
>>25165060maybe glosbe e.g https://glosbe.com/en/grc/spearI recall this site also having a lot of ancient recordings they must've changed it recentlyin any case I'd rather use an IPA description like those you can find on wiktionary
>>25165168thanksany specific resources on wikitionary or do you just google *word* wikitionary
>>25165414I don't need it for pronunciation anymore but it's pretty good especially if I need to double check some conjugated verb forms, I've been using it in conjunction with LSJ(which is better when you want to be sure of extant attested forms and how they are used) and it usually is well built.I search directly there, but keep in mind you won't find a page specifically for all conjugated forms(for verbs) or declensions for nouns i.e it's fairly rich in terms of lexicon but typically you will only find e.g the first person singular present active for verbs and nominative singular for nouns if you use the search and want to see the pronunciation, other conjunctions/declensions won't typically have a page dedicated to them, for example in https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/καθίστημι if you click on inflection only very few will be in blue, but I mean, once you see the pronunciation of some, the rest should be very clear with time.there's also some other cool stuff like I once stumbled upon https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Ancient_Greek_dialectal_declension and I find it a pretty good summary of dialectal variations for nouns, though that's already a later topic if you are starting
>>25165442sorry I'm new to all of this (literally started 1 month ago with the alphabet)what's LSJ?
>>25165451no problem https://lsj.gr/wiki/Main_Pageit's basically the best online dictionary out there, I use it every dayif you want to look up conjugated/declined forms, you can use https://logeion.uchicago.edu/morpho/ἀνθρώπου
>>25165465thanks
>>25165060This isn't Attic which can't really be described by English, that's the thing. It is a Greek acccent created for ease of use by English speakers who learn ancient Greek because it is easier for English ears.The good news is that you can still use the same scansion for reading ancient Greek poetry. Just know you are not saying it like they did.If you want to learn the Attic accent I recommend the JACT audio CD's which you can download the MP3 of from anna's archive or libgen.
>>25151591https://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/115-promising-to-learn-a-new-language/
>>25165854Not at all related to yours but if we’re posting blogposts, I thought THIS one was really really cool. https://www.deadlanguagesociety.com/p/how-far-back-in-time-understand-englishPersonally I only made it back to 14th century.
>>25165854White people have an open invitation to asian pussy
>>25165854This is why I chose a classical language. To escape the gay social games of the normalfag.
>>25165854based
>>25165060Anon, there were no tape recorders B.C.
>>251658601300 still doable with difficulty
>>25165048It really sucks friend. I don't have the energy to type in greek rn.The only good thing is that you get used to the routine a bit after a while. My first two weeks were hell.Now I just try to find a bit of time every night to study some greek. Sometimes it could be studying the most basic things but it helps to keep a schedule.When I get a point in my life again where I don't work for like a month or two I'm going full on sperg autism on studying greek. You really don't value what you have unless you lose it.
>>25167005I can see that, I'm glad that I started when I was in uni, I was still somewhat busy naturally but uni life is stil comfy enough to add some study like a language to your daily routine without being too burned out.At least language learning is a kind of progressive hobby like training, in that little by little, as long as you have consistency, even if it's half an hour a day, maybe even reviewing stuff from the day before because you aren't in the mood, you can make progress and if you don't have exaggerated expectations enjoy it nevertheless.
>>25166640Yes. Knowing that þ = th sound clears up a lot of the difficulty. Also I love that each section is done as a famous writer from that era - both stylistically but also content wise, eg 1900 is a M R James ghost story, 1800 is a Lawrence stern essay about the town, and marrying the woman in year 1000 is done as a saints life or a heroic homily of Wulfstan
I'm going to march across the Alps as I chant all the endings per the Ranieri-Dowling method, high test version
>>25166126We cannot know with 100% certainty and precision what ancient languages sounded like, but we can have a pretty good idea based on various information sources.
>>25168030No. Study modern languages if you want to talk, classical languages are for reading and writing.
>>25151591is there a way to learn two languages at the same time? has anyone here done it?
>>25168443Your writing will always suffer in any language that has phonemes when you can’t speak.
>>25168455Yes. It’s not worth the effort because it takes a long time to get good at one, so you might as well do one, get good, then consider doing another. If you do two at once you greatly increase the risk of not making meaningful progress in either.
>>25165854Whites are so gullible
>>25168650why?do you have to talk to yourself in your head when you write?
>>25168455Two? I'm learning like ten.
>>25160555Latin roll
>>25168455I'm learning Ancient Chinese from French textbooks
>>25169266heu! centum verba de argumento quod haud magni facio vita mea, conatum faciam tamen, nam etsi desunt mihi animalia domestica multos per annos(erant olim canes venatici), multas aves pabulatum venientes adspicio multorum generum apud quas fortasse merulas eligere oportet maxime me delectantes: nam earum quae volitant huc fortisan hae modo cum humi sint cursitant et non modo advolant quo placeat, et hoc ingenium earum spectaculum mihi praebet ridiculum, praecipue cum iuxta villam meam latum tectum sit non procul a nidis quod quasi stadium est et superne spectabile mihihiems paulatim vincitur et ver mox vehet illas rursum, iam hodie unam vidi solitariam, mense peracto fortasse multo plures
>>25168738Do you not have any internal monologue?
>cant be bothered to study any language anymoreit is over. the light is out of my life. i am done
>>25169386Just take an off day and reconsider why you’re doing it. It’s supposed to be fun. If it’s not fun, change your method. I tried to study Chinese, got able to speak rapidly, then realized that the entire Mandarin world had maybe 30 minutes of content I actually wanted to engage with and none of all 1.5 billion Chinese people were interesting enough to talk to that didn’t speak English already, so I switched to Latin because I have a voluminous corpus that I actually want to engage with, providing both the motivation to study, and the fun to just read for pleasure when I can’t be asked to put in more focused effort.
>>25169358I do, but if you "speak" to yourself while reading or writing it slows the process down immensely.>>25169308literally why, learn it from English or German, French sinologists only knew how to steal ancient manuscript, eat hot pot and die
>>25169656Well, subvocalization is a stage of reading speed and practice. I can and do do both. But of course yeah if you don’t subvocalize you can read quicker, but being able to subvocalize makes that quicker.
>>25169386coomer
>>25169851True Not sure why he’s posting here instead of on /lang/.
>>25169920based, fuck those degenerates
>>25168455only partly with Latin and Greek i.e not starting together both from 0, I did Latin first but started Greek when my Latin was still relatively mediocre
>>25169920>>25169851i've been doing classics since grammar school including Hebrew. I am just crestfallen with it all. The structure of Latin, the poetic of Greek, all are dull to me now. Maybe I should learn a new modern language...
>>25171396Kys
For those who haven't seen it before, The Orbis Pictus is a gem.https://archive.org/details/orbispictusofjoh00come
>>25171447Commenius is the goat. His Labyrinth of the Heart is also top shelf kino
>>25168443What about appreciating poetry in classical languages? Poetry is fundamentally based on the intertwining of sound and meaning. Also, languages live in our heads as sound even if we learn them entirely through writing.
>>25172089actually, I would somewhat disagreewritten poetry is by definition intended to be appreciated as a literary form without being actively recited
>>25172355Its effect on poetry is still based on its sound, whether out loud or just in the reader's head. If it weren't they would just write in prose.
>>25171791Yeah it’s no coincidence the orbus has an english-latin edition as recently as like 1930. It’s really excellent for teaching kids, or adult beginners for that matter. The method is really intriguing to me, that you teach a kid about the world, and in the process they learn a ton of practical Latin vocabulary. I fully intend on using it for whatever Latin education I can give my kids someday.I think also if I get into Romance languages ever I want to use the Orbus, Vestibulim, and Janua on at least one of them to try it out.
>>25172548It's a really logical progression. First you learn the name of objects. Then you start adding adjectives. Next give them actions via verbs; modify the action with adverbs. And so on. Once you get to the end of the series, having repeated the material over and over again, you go over the same material in a highly literary mould. The man was given the title the King of Education for a reason. From blue-bloods to plebs they all learned from his system up until the reign of the bugmen came about.
>>25172594Yeah a child can be coherently taught basic vocabulary via the orbis/vestibulum not as a linguistic thing, but as a way to educate generally. The whole vernacular->latin method lets you basically do a little pseudo-immersion school. After learning basic terminology for the physical world you are inculcated into humanistic thinking and language, again both in your vernacular and in latin, preparing the boy to start reading the Atrium as essentially a reader of humanistic philosophy monolingually after only a few years. IIRC from his complete he authored grammar materials to accompany each stage for teachers too. It’s really bizarre to me that the homeschooling types haven’t been made more aware of the works and that they aren’t available in print, it would be a way more effective way to do at home classical education than to just make a little kid recite declensions and study wordlists lol. It’s a complete package of value formation, latin education, vernacular education, etc.
>>25172694I've followed the same system teaching my niece English (nouns, adjectives, verbs) and the brainiac was already speaking in full sentences by 1.5 y/o. She mogs even the 4 y/os. Thankfully we have archives like this to keep the torch burning: https://mateo.uni-mannheim.de/camenaref/comenius.htmlIn Pars III, Conspectus operis, ctrl+f "Ludus" you'll find my favorite didactical work of his. And you are right. He had everything packaged with a pretty bow, a true genius. I plan on teaching my future kids along the same path, and learn along with them. First I need to find me an intelligent hoe.
>>25172825That’s awesome. I have twin nephews who are turning 1 soon so I would love more information on the method.Beyond that, did you use it for Latin at all or are you holding off till they’re a bit older?
>>25172825>Schola LudusI don’t have the time to read this thoroughly right now but I get that the gist of it is that integrating play and theatrical/performative/interactive work is helpful for language and encyclopedic knowledge for kids.
>>25172825>>25173090If I’m understanding you right, it’s basically to not “just talk to the kid” but, once they can at least say mama simply naming nouns without integrating into a sentence, like just pointing at a ball and saying “ball” instead of the typical “oh is that a ball?” Then once they’re beyond start naming nouns you start pointing and saying “red ball” layering adjectives in, so on and so forth?
>>25173105Understandable it is pretty long but it shows how he recycles material over and over again, yet with a more literary style and more grammatically complex instead of baby's first sentence. Your keen eyed observation leads me to >>25173090>>25173122Indeed. To give you the skeleton, first you begin with nouns (whether in books or irl) e.g. looking at an animal book, horse neeeeigh, pig oink oink, dog woof woof. I find it best to use general terms like calling every bird a bird instead of getting specific. It tends to confuse them at that age. As ^^^ noted, engaging their five senses is op, so using toys or anything they can hold, smell, hear, etc while teaching them the names. Naturally you'd have to update the vocab list that is more relevant to the 21st century. Then you can move on to adjectives even if they can't verbalize them yet, as long as they can point to whatever your naming. BIG DOG. little bug. (summer day, open the door) HOT. (winter night, open window) COOOOOOLD. Again engage the senses. Finally verbs work best with imperatives that you can both act out. Also adding commentary to the show you're watching together is another cheat code. OH NO KITTY STUCK IN TREE. Once you let the legos sit in their head, you'll see them constructing their own kino. Few word work. As for learning along with them, I already know Latin well enough to read just about anything except something I don't even know about in my mother tongue, e.g. botany, but it can get better, much better. Docendo perdisces.
Well, I'm glad you like The Orbis Pictus, which I posted, but I didn't find your long-winded discussion interesting in the slightest. I'll now proceed and post another old book.https://archive.org/details/colloquialatinaa00doog
Finished my first complete greek text, friends. Besides reading certain bits from larger books, now I finished the first text I personally wanted to read.It was Lysias' On The Murder of EratosthenesI made some mistakes ofcourse and I know that Lysias is supposed to be easy but nevetherless I did it!
>>25174218Neat! My first Greek text was Sappho’s first poem. A-thanat Aphrodite’s
>>25174236How was it ,fren? Prior to Lysias I had read most of the New Testament ofcourse, but I don't count it since Koine is way easier than Attic.
>>25174240It was easy. I read Anne Caron’s dual language edition so most of the poems I would read phonetically then search the meaning in glossary for instance at end of the book. Poems and fragments are all Ive managed
>>25173632>post monumental work of childhood pedagogy>people start discussing how to use it>wtf how could this happen to me
>>25174218How do you make a mistake while reading. Do you mean you were translating the whole time and made mistakes in the translation? Great news
>>25174315I just said your discussion sucked and was stupid and boring as fuck to read. Next question?
>>25174319>post topic>people engage with topic>wtf
>>25174322Retard, I just stated my opinion that your discussion was lame as fuck, which I'm free to do. Now fuck off.
>>25174218εὖγε τοῦ πράγματος
>>25174326>post on public forum>someone responds>wtf how could this be happening to me
>>25174398>>wtf how could this be happening to meI didn't say that, I just said you have low IQ, in other words I stated a fact, I didn't ask a question.
>>25174317Yes, mistakes when translating.>>25174345εὐχαριστῶ σοι,σοφὲ Ἰταλέ. Σὺ ἐκ τῆς Μεγάλης Ἑλλάδος κατάγῃ;
>>25174674οὐ μὴν ἀλλ' ἐκ νήσου μεγάλης ἐν ῇ ποτ' ἀπεδείχθη τοῖς Ἴωσι κατὰ τὴν Ἡροδότου διήγησιν εὐδαιμονήσειν ἄν εἰ κοινῷ στόλῳ ἐκεῖσε πλεύσαιεν καὶ κοινὴν πόλιν κτίζοιεν μετὰ τὴν ἧτταν ὑπὸ Κύρου
>>25172694>God is of himself from everlasting to everlastingI'm not entirely sure what this even means in English.
>>25173267Children do not need conscious instruction to acquire their native language, and it mostly doesn't help.
I am crying
>>25175259cur lacrimas, amice?
>>25174674If you "read" by transverbalizing into English and understanding that you may never learn to actually understand the Greek text itself.
>>25175291nihil est tanti. Nihil in rebus humanis, magno studio dignum est.
>>25175105It just means he’s intrinsically eternal in either direction temporally (or above time itself), from eternity backwards to eternity forwards in time. I think.>>25173632This book has one of the things I dislike about a lot of colloquia which is that all the “colloquial” latin is just subordinated to reading Cicero anyways. Like it’s just a big methodological knife-fight over how to get students to end up ultimately just doing grammar-translation on Cicero anyways (which is still absolutely a worthwhile endeavor and all). However much shit people talk about Traupman’s Conversational Latin, at least he had the vision to instruct with oral proficiency itself as the goal rather than just teaching “fake easy latin” solely as some exercise to prep to read the same 3-5 authors.
