the walls of tyrosh editionASOIAF wiki: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Main_PageBlog: https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/Old blog: https://grrm.livejournal.com/So Spake Martin (interviews): https://westeros.org/citadel/ssm/Book search: https://asearchoficeandfire.com/SSM search: https://cse.google.com/cse?cx=006888510641072775866:vm4n1jrzsdyGeneral search: http://searcherr.work/TWOW samples: https://archive.org/details/411440566-the-winds-of-winter-released-chaptersold: >>25132678
every time someone draws a dayne with brown skin george deletes a chapter of twow
What are the most realistic and unrealistic female characters in the series in your opinion?For me, realistic women:>catelyn>sansa>cersei>margaeryPlenty of other smaller side characters.Unrealistic ones:>arya>osha>asha>brienne>olennaGirls like Daenerys are kinda in the middle for me, meaning that she is mostly believable but acts in uncharacteristic ways whenever the story demands it. Melisandre can't be categorized cause her nature is too tied to magic.
>>25156285I was looking online and some people discussed thisRenly could arguably be considered next in line for the throne since Stannis turned away from the Seven to worship Rhllor. The Crown swore to always defend the faith and Stannis literally went around burning septs. So I heard some say Renly could argue on heresy and blasphemy that Stannis forsaked his right to the throne by abandoning the Faith of the Seven
>The Crown swore to always defend the faithlollmaoROFL
>>25156173>>25156216>>25156242I've understood it as Renly taking his sweet time then suddenly hurrying once Storm's End is sieged. The timeline of events was calculated by fans. Basically, Robb, Stannis, and Renly waste a ton of time for no discernable reason besides partying. Robb spends a month in Riverrun, Renly spends half a year in The Reach, Stannis spends nearly the same amount of time, but not at the same time as Renly, somewhere else. Tywin is the only one who promptly positions his forces as quickly as possible and stays in known locations.https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZsY3lcDDtTdBWp1Gx6mfkdtZT6-Gk0kdTGeSC_Dj7WM/edit?gid=8#gid=8Tywin's strategy relies on staying between Robb and King's Landing. For how long Stannis and Renly take to open hostilities, Tywin was actually correct to ignore anything south of the Blackwater for most of a year. No one expected Stannis to assault KL because lol no army, then Renly suddenly dies, that's the OH SHIT moment for the Lannisters, because Stannis reclaims Stormland forces.It does not make sense for Renly to hurry back to Storm's End, because he spent enough time at Highgarden he could have had Stormland houses already prepare Storm's End for a siege from Stannis. Stannis would never pillage the Stormlands, they are supposed to be his vassals, so he can't act like Tywin to Renly. Storm's End should have been packed full of food, and Renly let Stannis waste a year sitting outside Storm's End.>>25156297Didn't used to be like this, did reddit suddenly realize Starfall is in Dorne?>>25156359Brienne has an abnormal amount of masculine hormones, and still is a teenager without a thot network. Olenna is the generation between Aemon and Tywin, Old age reduces hormones to bare minimum. It makes sense those 2 have the fewest woman moments. Arya is both a child and a psychopath.>>25156511I doubt GRRM has any explanation for King Bran that isn't retarded.
Jonsa status?
>>25156557in hurrying to Storm's End he pretty much only brought his cavalry and also more or less meant he HAD to fight or else his cavalry would start getting hungry real fastSo it's likely that while Renly would win (4:1 numbers advantage is HUGE) he would likely have suffered disproportionate losses.>It does not make sense for Renly to hurry back to Storm's End, because he spent enough time at Highgarden he could have had Stormland houses already prepare Storm's End for a siege from Stannis.To be fair Renly may not be the smartest at war and battles. I don't know if Catelyn explained why exactly Renly rushed over to Storm's End, but he did forbid Catelyn leaving until after he would have fought Stannis, so she could see what rebels get.It's likely he thought it would be an easy victory to boost morale, so he rushed in.
>>25156511It might be better that the books are never finished then.
>>25156695Cucked by Sansan.
>>25156913If I ever write a book I'll 100% add and asshorely dangerous character with a hidden vulnerable side that is kind to the pretty female character for two seconds, then capture the female audience forever. It's free real state.
>>25156557>>25156699You sort of have to assume that Renly was worried that he would lose support of the stormlands if he didn't deal with Stannis. Letting Stannis besiege storm's end might have given incentive for the stormlords to defect to stannis. Also, it's probable that he didn't want to appear too inactive as a king even though his strategy of letting Robb and Tywin's forces eat each other up makes sense. Because Stannis' force was so small he thought he could dispose of him quickly and move on.
>>25156699>in hurrying to Storm's End he pretty much only brought his cavalryThat's all Renly needed, as he still wildly outnumbered Stannis and who was guaranteed to lose if it came to battle.>To be fair Renly may not be the smartest at war and battles.This is nonsense. Nobles were trained from birth to be warriors and commanders, it's literally the entire reason the nobility exists, not to mention there were plenty of older nobles and men with combat experience in Balon's Uprising, (just 11 years ago) Robert's Rebellion (18 years ago) and the War of the Ninepenny Kings (40 years back).
>>25156285Walk with me, my sweet summer child, and hear the tale of fat pink masts jutting into sopping wet myrish swamps and black nipples brushing against silk until her cunt became the world while in the privy the princess guzzled arbor gold and shat but the more she drank the more she shat until she was shitting brown water and around her the planks of the ship groaned like a fat man taking a shit while she cursed the gods and nuncle smiled as he broke his fast on black bread, bacon burned black, and mulled wine while capon-grease dribbled down his chin and onto the boiled leather of his jerkin for she was wet with love and did she not know words are wind and dark wings bring dark words and a lannister always pays her debts and mayhaps this is nothing but a mummers farce and useless as nipples on a breastplate and the princess has been fucking lancel and moonboy for all nuncle knows and he is the blood of the dragon for the night is dark and full of terrors but where do whores go and jon snow knows nothing and winter is coming and near enough makes no matter so nuncle smiled and dipped the heel of his bread into clam chowder and prayed for half a hundred more heh har HODOR
>>25157463To be fair, I believe Stannis made good preparations with stakes and pikes, as well as the rising sun at his back, but yes it was extremely likely he'd lose.>This is nonsenseExcept Renly explicitly did things against the advice of his experienced commanders. I believe Tarly or another recommended attacking immediately at night but Renly said it'd be unchivalrous and worried that he'd look cowardly. Mind you Renly also placed the inexperienced Loras in the van instead of someone like Randyll Tarly. Overall it seems Renly cares more for PR than maximum battlefield effectiveness. But to be fair to Renly it was pretty stacked in his favor so he probably thought it'd be a wash and he needn't care about maximum effectiveness.>>25157300I suppose so. I would think the Stormlords all found Stannis a bit of a prick but they all seemed to defect to him real quick once Renly died, so there is that possibility.
>>25156430that's a good point, I never considered that
>you wake up after a quick post nap bust to find your bitchy wife maniacally eating your cummiesWhat would you do in this situation?
>>25157732Think to myself: "she must really love my kingly cum". Then fart and go back to napping
Sic Semper Targaryennis
>>25156695still yuge
>>25157732"it's good to be king"
9/11 ruined ASOIAF because gurm changed his mind about a supernatural police state run by the Children via Brandon Stark.Please stay tuned for my theory video
>>25156695Jon deserves better than sansa. His children would be contaminated with her mental retardation.
>>25158305Bro 9/11 was twenty five years ago.
>>25158430And? Half of ASOIAF was published before 9/11
>>25158430>Bro 9/11 was twenty five years ago.Game Of Thrones was published 30 years ago (and it's still not finished).
>“Now here is a riddle,” Melisandre said. “A clever fool and a foolish wise man.” Bending, she picked up Patchface’s helm from where it had fallen and set it on Cressen’s head. The cowbells rang softly as the tin bucket slid down over his ears. “A crown to match your chain, Lord Maester,” she announced. All around them, men were laughing.>“You are too ill and too confused to be of use to me, old man.” It sounded so like Lord Stannis’s voice, but it could not be, it could not.Man anyone else feel really bad for Cressen? Stannis was a dick to him, he should've stopped Melisandre from putting the fool's crown on his head
>>25158712Stannis is not a bad guy, but he's prone to very dark moods. Probably the reason why he burns his daughter.
So I'm not expert at all at Medieval history, but aren't there too many noble houses in Westeros? Wouldn't the population need to be massive to support those hundreds of houses? What is supposed to be the equivalent in size? The entirety of Europe? Two or three decent sized (France, Spain, Germany, UK) countries?
>>25158711No wonder he doesn't want to write it anymore. Who the fuck wants to work on the same thing for 30 years? The show gave him the wind to finish ADoD but that was it.
Cressen is probably mishearing Stannis. He's known Stannis longer than anyone else in that room, but he cannot believe Stannis would say all that in that situation. If this lord often tells people they are stupid to their face, the normal reaction is "Well he is calling me stupid now." I can believe Stannis just flatly insults his maester like that, but I can't believe Cressen is surprised Stannis would say that. I think when Cressen hears the laughter, he probably overhears someone mumble over Stannis's voice. Melisandre may have passively used magic to twist the words of what Cressen hears.The reason book Stannis has fans is 1) no one takes him seriously until he takes the army from Renly, therefore he is an underdog. 2) Everyone is usually against him, and he didn't have to consecutively fuck up like Robb to get that much heat. 3) He has deep seeded trauma, probably was abused or molested as a kid. 4) His need for validation still couches within an obligation for a greater institution, something that Tywin, Robb, and Renly overlook. He seeks the Iron Throne because he can best preserve it, not to for the sake of his legacy nor lover. 5) He radically changes his trajectory when informed of a crisis bigger than the Iron Throne, even if his methods compromise his morals. This is a sign of malleable steel, not brittle iron as Donal says. GRRM hasn't said much against Stannis besides burning Shireen. D&D utterly missed the point of Stannis and character assassinated him in the script.>>25158750South of the Wall is as much land area as Brazil, while north of the Wall is known to be the rest of South America in area. "Known" is key because the continent might wrap around the pole. Medieval Europe's population (80m) easily fits in a Brazil landmass, which today has 213m people. Westeros has a low medieval population, but its economy is stronger. Historically, 80% of the population is peasantry. 16,000k is more than enough for hundreds of knights and noble houses.
>>25156285remember to include the official /grrm/ podcast The Morning Throners in the OP
they revived the stupid canceled jon snow tv show spinoff
So the North isn't actually all that honorable is it?>During the Andal invasion, the Starks invaded Andalos in revenge and killed a bunch of innocents>Feast of Skane was a pretty fucked up thing, as is the Rape of the Three Sisters >The uncle of Alys Karstark does shady shit to get himself the lordship >The Starks completely wiped out a branch family (Greystarks) >The Boltons are super dishonorable Don't get me wrong they're a lot better than the Ironborn or Dornish but historically they seem about the same as most of the other regions
>>25159039Why do they want to make a show of the driest character in the book? Even Jon snow fanfics are boring.
>>25159167Honor is a Ned trait, and remember he wasn't raised in the North but in the Vale by Jon Arryn.
>>25158750Don't think too much about it, George certainly didn't. The population of westeros doesn't make much sense relative to its size. An explanation could be the long periods of winter but that has its own problems.
>>25158840Don't you mean the Wizard Kissing Company?
Weird question:Is there some kind of fan work that compiles only the prequel stories? I'm not talking about those knightly novels and Targ novels. I mean did someone extract all the retrospectives from ASOIAF and compile them into .pdf? I have no interest in the present stories, only the historical ones.Thanks.
>>25159948>Australia out of nowherewhat?
>>25159954it's a meme you dip!
>>25156430His kingsguard is rainbow themed, which is funny because we know he is gay, but it is also a cue about his (good) standing with the Faith.>>25159167Honor was different before the Andals. The Old Ways are really about blood sacrifice to the evil trees and raping newly wed peasant girls, but they've mellowed out (and forgot).
>>25156285Anything similar to Daddy George's writing and prose?Just finished the Expanse. I liked it a lot but i need something similar to asoiaf
>>25160307Lately people have been recommending A Cavern of Black Ice because the author's actually finishing the series after a 15 year hiatus
The Morning Throners have finally gotten to A Dance With Dragons!Prologue review here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHq2EIBoQvU
Is there a stupider battle in the series than Stannis' assault on King's Landing? That has to be the most poorly planned, right?
>GEORGE R. R. MARTIN: It wasn’t easy for me. I didn’t want to give away my books. It’s not easy to talk about the end of my books. Every character has a different end. I told them who would be on the Iron Throne, and I told them some big twists like Hodor and “hold the door,” and Stannis’s decision to burn his daughter. We didn’t get to everybody by any means. Especially the minor characters, who may have very different endings.So why will Stannis burn Shireen in the books?I think it'll be more understandable but GRRM is never finishing this shit
>>2515877580 million only in Westeros? Yeah, that sounds like a lot of people. That way having so many houses isn't as weird.>>25159403It's just that I just remembered that middle houses (you know, everyone that's not a very major house) already have minor houses serving them. How deep does the feudal rabbit hole goes?
>>25160730He almost won and would have if not for Tyrion's chains and Tywin's return (due to Cat's brother's retardation).
>>25160884Hopefully he saw how retarded it was and decided to change. But alas, writers are proud people.
With the advent of AI animation, I hope we get an animated series of ASOIAF at some point.
>>25161024>he almost won a battle he outnumbered the defenders like 10 to 1 but instead got massively btfo'd cause he chose not to actually use any of his strengths strategic mastermind, guess that excuses all of it
>>25160730>Is there a stupider battle in the series than Stannis' assault on King's Landing?It's medieval D-Day but since Gurm don't know shit about history, it's stupid.
>>25161005GRRM has boomer knowledge and doesn't concern himself with details, much like the GRRM threads on /tv/. That said, his broad statements are not horrific. The whole continent can afford to send 200,000 men to war in 298 AC, but that number drops significantly each year of sustained war. Most conflicts in Westeros don't exceed a single season. War of the Five Kings is the only war we can estimate to last longer than 3 consecutive years. IDK where GRRM pulls his army sizes from. Just because the Westerlands can arm 40,000 men, it does not mean 40,000 men can march as a single body across the kingdoms. The Tyranny of the Rocket Equation applies to feeding men and horses. The further the distance, the more time the army has to spend feeding itself, until there isn't enough land available to keep feeding the army. There are a few advantages that can still permit armies of 7,000 and 12,000 men to march cohesively. Everyone speaks the same language, ravens provide faster-than-horse communication, and the 7K has an economy that is more robust than Medieval Europe. I would guess the 7K has as much economy as 2/3 of Pax Romana. If the printing press and gunpowder did not enter Europe until after 1700, the 1500 of that Europe would look like Westeros. First Men, Andals, and Rhoynar are also probably built different; a little tougher, a little smarter, a little more cooperative than people of the Free Cities.Take the North as an example of hierarchy; Ned Stark is lord to major vassals like Bolton, Umber, Glover, and Manderly. Rodrick Cassel is a minor vassal to Ned, but when you line up all direct vassals of Ned, Rodrick stands with Roose Bolton. Rodrick is a knight, but he owns land. His son Jory is not a knight, but bears arms and armor, and was Ned's go-to spokesman in KL. Manderly has vassals the same level as Cassel, and men-at-arms with those vassals, direct and indirectly. Peasants, those who are not knight nor lord, can sometimes afford their own arming due to their financial success. It's not likely a lord will have more than 5 grades of seperation between himself and the lowest level of a soldier in campaign.
Is it alright if i start with dunk n egg?
>>25161097What do you mean? He had no option but to storm the castle.
>>25156695Dead
>>25161624He had a gigantic fleet and a large number advantage. He could have very safely transported his troops north of the river and done a proper land assault while the ships maintained a sea siege.Instead he shoved his entire fleet into a tiny river thereby invalidating his number advantage and tried to have a river crossing within trebuchet range.
>>25161659Tywin's army was up there, remember?
>>25161663Tywin's army had seemingly no problem attacking him across the river either. That's why the assault was extra retarded.
One line I’ve noticed that could serve as foreshadowing for the romance between Jon/Arya is when Jon says to Arya in his early Game of Thrones chapters:“Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister.”Arya complains about not being allowed to train with her brothers, and Jon being a bastard and especially close to her can truly understand what it feels like to be excluded and treated unfairly, since he suffers from the same thing.In Westeros, a bad brother would have ignored her, a good brother would have comforted her, and a very good brother would have done everything within the rules to make her feel better. Jon does none of these. He crosses the line of what Westeros considers socially and morally acceptable, and gives Arya what she truly wants and no one else would ever give her a sword, which he names Needle, before they both have to leave Winterfell.Because Jon loves her, he breaks the rules regardless of what he believes is right or wrong if those rules make Arya unhappy. When he gives her a weapon, he’s disobeying his own earlier statement: “Girls get the arms but not the swords.” So it wouldn’t be illogical to think that Arya who does not love Jon any less than he loves her might, in turn, break the other half of that rule: “Bastards get the swords but not the arms,” as an act of love in response to Jon’s gesture.
>>25161818The story is laced with their romance. It's actually quite masterfully done. You could argue that Ygritte is the natural progression of Jon's issues with his mother (Catelyn) and her eventual death symbolizes the resolution of that internal conflict. With that in mind, Jon's rise to the lordship of the Night's Watch can be seen as his "puberty" and emaciation. Doesn't Maester Aemon's "kill the boy" then sound a lot more poignant? But George is true to his style, and nothing is so simple, and Jon is immediately assailed by another redhead. His response to the ghost of his mother is to throw himself in Arya's arms, clutching to her memory amidst his chaotic "adulthood". Which, of course, leads to his downfall and assassination. It's very beautiful.
Are we led to believe the "Old Gods" religion they got up north is a dead religion? First the very term "old gods" sounds like very nondescript, as in they're not sure even who their gods are, and they define them in opposition to the actual main religion, as opposed to view those new gods as not legitimate. The Drowned God, the Storm God, the Sea Goddess, those are "old gods" that are "lived" by their believers as actual realities. They've got a priesthood, rituals, while the northern non-descript "old gods" mainly existed through the Weirwoods that are now virtually extinct. Overall the northern religion feels dead and liveless compared to the faith of the seven, the drowned god, r'hllor..
what's this JonxArya cope ? I think Dany is a slut but it's kinda obvious grrm wants them to be his version if soulmates, there's a whole buildup for Dany to fall in love with Jon the moment she meets him
>>25163456To the cliche-governed mind, I'm sure there is.
>>25156430This is why I wish we had a lawyer and septon POV. What does the faith of the seven say about homosexuality? Renly boasting Stannis turned on the state religion loses some edge when people gossip he pulls back Loras' hair at night.
>>25165408GRRM has no idea of the recent 20 years of findings about the Medieval Era. For peasants (80% of everyone) of the feudal period, any sexual act that did not result in a child was seen as Sodomy. Nobody built their identity on how they have sexual pleasure, nor whom they have pleasure with. One big broad category lumps masturbation together with gay anal sex. The Church needs parishioners and offerings, and the best way to keep that is new believers. So at Confession, if the peasant either already has kids, or promises to make kids, he's getting a slap on the wrist punishment for confessing his bum sex with Geoffrey in the woods. The punishment is just a bunch of prayers all afternoon, maybe a few pennies in the collection coffer, big whoop. Peasant marriage is closer to the Las Vegas wedding drive-thru than any modern white dress event. We take modern advantages for granted, but without all of that, people in the past had so many problems on the bottom half of the Maszlow Pyramid they were not going to give a shit about ethical dilemmas and identity.Nobility have to worry about property inheritance, and that requires chastity and keeping track of lineages and marriages. Nobles have to make sure they fulfilled their marriage vows and produced heirs, because other nobles are going to hold them to that. Royals have the most pressure because the king is crowned by God. Being enough of a faggot to forget to spawn babies is the pro-gamer strat for getting your dynasty's shit wrecked.If we apply better understanding of Medieval culture, then the Faith of the Seven is just going to wag its finger about Renly marrying Margaery. Margaery definitely knows ways to get stag seed cook in her oven, so Renly isn't actually in danger of failing even the Medieval standards. The Faith is also extremely lax. There are only septons, really dedicated septons, and the one high septon. None of the diocese and curia malarkey.
How endgame is Euron? Will he destroy the world? Or is he a distraction?
>>25165865Euron (much to his own surprise) will end up being irrelevant, with his magic backfiring/betraying him.
You guys desperate enough for fanfiction? I wrote the first two chapters to one about a year ago. I've been reading the books again and it made me go back to check on what I cooked up. Honestly, I don't think it's terrible for what it is (OC's own story concurrent to Game of Thrones' plot), but I think I'd rather let you guys be the judge of that. I wouldn't mind writing more at some point.https://files.catbox.moe/ctkk0a.pdf
>>25165462Renly was bisexual and so wouldn't have had a problem knocking up Margaery, even if he preferred fucking Loras.
>>25165923nothing to support this
>>25165919>self-insert female OCYou write well, please don't waste on this garbage.
>>25165909Thanks, George.
I've seen multiple trial of the seven videos (Quinn wtf was that, dude) and every video fails to include the actual goat, Pate the WoodcockPate would unironically 1v7 most of the teams put together. I'm not even kidding Pate would easily win
>>25166559Since 5 vacancies had to be filled, we don't know the placement process. A 1:1 tournament is easy to see 1st through 4th place, but how do you select the 5th winner? What guarantee is there that the 1st place defeated the loser to the 2nd place winner? You'd need another tournament to actually proof the highest placed competitors against different highest placed competitors. The problem with consecutive 1:1 fighting tournaments is your competitors get too exhausted and risk permanent damage. RNG can remove ideal fighters. What's the guarantee the winner can still perform after recovering from a broken knee? UFC figured this out the hard way and had to space matches apart for fighters. This contest for the Kingsguard was all on foot, not jousts. Knights can joust numerous times all day, because it's just single-impact events if they accept the unhorsing to yield. You'd be wasting good men if you ordered knights like Dunk to fight another melee the next day after he defeated Aerion.Only Samgood of Sour Hill has a known battle record before the War for the White Cloaks. Did Pate the Woodcock fight Samgood of Sour Hill? We don't know and I just stated why it's a bad idea to ram either fighter through multiple fights in the same week. Pate of the Woodcock is definitely up there, but I want the 40-year old Samgood of Sour Hill on my team more than I want the 60-year old Samgood of Sour Hill that placed the same as Pate the Woodcock. One more thing, very few of Jaehaerys' Kingsguard fought in war. Besides Samgood, Willam the Wasp fought in real battle as a white cloak, and he died that 1 time.My list? knights only, no Valyrian copiesBarristan Selmy, between killing Maelys the Monstrous and Defiance of DuskendaleMaegor the Cool, with both Blackfyre and Dark SisterGwayne CorbrayCregan Stark, no older than 45Robert I BaratheonSamgood of Sour Hill, no older than 45Quentyn Ball
>build mazes for absolutely no reason whatsoever Were the Mazemakers of Lorath just retarded or obsessively autistic or what
>>25167502They’re literally the Pthumerians from Bloodborne. Tall people who mindlessly carve the endless halls of the Labyrinth. Just because. They still do in Bloodborne in present day. Chipping away. Slack jawed. Dead eyes. A remnant of a lost civilization.
>>25167502they just like me fr
Does Sansa ever smarten up? I'm close to finishing the 3rd book and she's still a fucking retard.
>>25169529Yes.
>>25169529Sansa gets smarter in AFFC with promises of being taught how to play The Game of Thrones™ by Littlefinger in The Winds of Winter
>>25169529sansa is the smartest person arya knows
>danaeyrs chapterI skim these. What a waste of text
>daenerys chapterI read these with my pants down, like George intended
Pretty fucking hilarious that the only moment of true pity Cersei has for Sansa is her being matched with Tyrion.
>>25169529No.
>>25156297The fact that so many artists draw Arya and Jon with brown skin is probably the worst of the bunch. With Daynes, you can excuse them since they're from Dorne (I still don't like it), as well as with Velaryons on account of the show (I still don't like it)
>>25161024Unironically He would have won if he had attacked King's Landing at the start of the war and not taken a detour to fight Renly.He would have fewer troops, but KL would be completely unprepared
