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I tried to make a webslop novel as a fanfic of this and it never took off. I’m the original gongtard and it’s the only reason why I’m bitter. Read this book for pure beauty.

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>>25203315
Put in the time and read actual stories. If you go on the subreddits it's just endless dogshit tierlists made by retards and a bunch of low effort memes, only some of which are mildly funny.

I learnt the word rigmarole from the flash cards. I will create a scene about witches broomports just to use it.

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Path of Dragons has such a promising cover, but the cringe… my god, the cringe is unreal.
Imagine the world ending and your biggest problem is that your system overlord uses gendered language.
My search for a castaway LitRPG continues.

So what tools do you guys use for MTLs? Preferably something with a glossary and handy shit like that.

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>>25203457
About the 5th rewrite of the 2nd chapter.

If I just wrote berserk as a web novel. Would you read it?

>>25203543
Interesting question.
Personally, I always thought Berserk's most interesting part was Griffith's rise to power and the psychological aspect of it.
I never cared for the fights or monsters, but Berserk is mostly just that. It kinda has to rely on that and visuals because it has little else going.
Guts himself is kinda flat and uninteresting character. I guess internal dialogue could flesh him out.

>>25203539
Nonsensical conversation that's not relevant to anything, or ss this some goon shit leading to smut?

>>25203556
is*

>>25203556
>note to myself subtext too subtle
And here I thought it was too hardhanded.

>>25203581
What do you mean?

>>25203618
>protagonist has been exiled
>he talks to his friend, who was demoted for disobedience and never recovered
>friend has become disillusioned with the regiment and spends all his time drinking
So the subtext here is that the protagonist fears he might end up becoming like his friend. And tries to evaluate whatever such life is worth living.

>>25203543
I still itch to write just that. It won't be read by more than 5 people assuming you dont include litrpg however. Hardest thing is deciding on a story scenario and how I'd want it to end though.

>>25203634
Your dialogue feels fake and forced, it's just cringe.

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>>25203634
The difference between what you think you wrote and what you actually wrote is stark. Technically the conversation is badly structured, neither is it realistic or conveys anything you intended.

>>25203634
>>protagonist has been exiled
and you're not having Lascurel greet him in a tavern with "Looks like they'll let anyone in here"? wtf are you even doing anon???

>>25203670
it doesn't feel particularly bad to me, though I wouldn't say it's especially good either, not to be rude
it's certainly better than a lot of very popular shit on royalroad
room for improvement but you're overstating how bad it is, in my opinion

>>25203539
>"If Rihall can't exist with content servants, then it doesn't have to exist at all."
should be contented, but it also took me like 3 re-reads to understand what sentiment was being expressed, which doesn't bode well for dialogue that's supposed to sound natural
>From a captain, nonetheless
should be no less
>charged each other
being followed closely by
>smashed against each other
is awkward
>a nymph in green gained an edge over the nymph in black
it is ambiguous whether this is another stage with another concurrent fight to the aforementioned one, or if these are the same two women that charged each other
if it's different women, you need to direct the reader's attention to another stage before hand e.g "On another stage, a nymph in green...", if it's the same two women, why are we hearing about their movement and their actions and their state of undress over the fact that one is green and one is black?
>ash cunt
the black one? who? ash is white or grey, not black
>They observed as the losing nymph...
the choice of sentence structure in this line seems backwards to me, it seems like this should be one long sentence if anything, the choppy sentences do not work for descriptions and actions that sound lethargic (faltered, could no longer keep up, slower, wobbled)
>could no longer keep up
keep up with what? you haven't described what the "losing nymph" is actually doing besides "gaining ground", so to a reader's head the once-winning nymph is just struggling idle against the air, parrying nothing, until she gets a staff smack
>you are oblivious to the stratagems of these matches," Cale jested as the tavern wench poured his ale
this is just awful to read even if this character talks like this
>had been enough to deprive it all
things are usually deprived of something, e.g "deprive him of it all", but the "it all" seems to be referring to the one battle and one mistake, so "deprive him of everything" would be better
>glory hunger
his hunger for glory, glory hunger sounds ridiculous
also really that exposition simply doesn't belong there, readers can tolerate not knowing the details of an event referred to in conversation for a moment
if you cannot help but infodump in this scene then at least do it in a natural pause/lull in the conversation, not during a question immediately after a topic has been alluded to lol
>turned to stare at him skeptically
sounds far too aggressive/persistent for a conversation with active participants, stare seems to imply a pause, and adding skepticism to it makes it sound like he's deliberating over whether this person in front of him actually exists
>"Maybe, I'm reflecting my own."
not really sure what you're going for here but that comma absolutely does not belong there whatever the case
>"Confront the constable."
this tense would be allowed in a casual conversation, but with how confusing the rest of the conversation is it's not a luxury that has been earned
change it to "I confronted the constable."

>>25203539
>>25203772
also it bears mentioning again please at least change "Look at that" to "Looks like they'll let anyone in here"
if your character is exiled/excommunicated/presumed dead and they are being greeted by an associate in a bar/pub/tavern this line has to be deployed

>>25203700
Probably because I don't structure my conversation. I just start with a vague idea of what I want to convey and let it flow from there.
But I'm not sure what you even mean by bad structure. Real conversations typically have no structure.
>conveys anything you intended.
Objectively false, Claude was able to figure out the intention on the first try.
But yes, I'm leaning toward being less subtle. It's funny because previous drafts spelled things out more clearly, and anons here complained it was boring because it didn't respect the reader's intelligence. I guess I cannot find a middle ground between subtle and spelled-out.

>>25203705
Lascurel doesn't know MC has been exiled.
>>25203724
>it's certainly better than a lot of very popular shit on royalroad
That's the goal. It would be audacious to try to be on par with trad publishing, but if I can even slightly above average RR entry.
Honestly, I'm not sure if most people are as critical of dialogue as one would think.
The War of the Rohirrim has the worst possible dialogue I have ever seen. It wouldn't even get a passing grade in dramaturgy class. And yet, several people in IMDB reviews praise this dialogue. If that pile of shit gets accepted by normies, I don't think one should be too concerned with the quality of their dialogue.

>>25203539
You can't even describe a tavern beyond saying it's full and then it turns out it's not even a tavern but a fight club. And you say this is your fifth attempt?

>>25203798
Real conversations typically aren't even worth listening, but you're supposed to tell a story here.

>>25203798
>Lascurel doesn't know MC has been exiled.
i do not care anon, there is such a thing as a double meaning that the reader is in on and the speaker is not
>Objectively false, Claude was able to figure out the intention on the first try.
yes because you've fed the reader (both claude and a normal person) an entire paragraph of exposition immediately before the dialogue
claude doesn't have a theory of mind for your characters, whereas a normal person will read what's in the speech and have no idea why either character would be bringing up a battle that was fought 15 years ago in this tavern, and how either character immediately knew what was being referred to, unless it was referred to earlier in the story and was present in their minds (which, from the fact that you're explaining it in the middle of the conversation seemingly isn't the case)
if you want Cale to take offense to his callous remarks to explain why he then jabs at a sensitive topic for Lascurel, you should put some narrative cue either before or after "When you lost,..." to indicate such; right now this part of the conversation is moving at breakneck speed for seemingly no reason (especially with the tedious infodump having it grind to a halt during its point of conflict)
if you really want them to simply be on the same wavelength and not mention it explicitly, it can be fixed by adding at least some sort of pause, or some request for clarification
>"When you lost, did you deserve the punishment?"
>Lascurel gave him a queer look.
>"Lost when?"
>Cale let him ponder on the obvious implication for a moment longer.
or
>"What else would I be referring to?"
>"Ah. And why would you be bringing that up now?"
then you can wedge your exposition in afterward, or ideally stick it in after Cale makes reference to some aspect of it (i.e he provides a detail that actually needs clarifying)
whether or not Lascurel is genuinely confused for a moment or is simply hoping that Cale isn't referring to an omnipresent elephant in the room doesn't matter; the dialogue's more plausible, and Lascurel's brief confusion validates the reader's own confusion, and reassures them that this shift in topic is deliberate

>>25203772
It's just a gooner shit, that's all there is to it. The entire conversation is so fake and umbelievable, it feels like it was written by someone who has never had one irl.

>>25203838
>claude doesn't have a theory of mind for your characters
It can you just don't prompt it to.

>>25203772
Appreciate the high effort critique and your reading it three times. I won't lie and say I agree with most of your critique, but most of your points are solid.
>also really that exposition simply doesn't belong there,
You are probably correct. But honestly, I'm kinda fucked either way, from the looks of it, I'm only capable of delivering information in confusing conversations or in exposition dumps.
>>25203773
why are you obsessed with that?
>>25203828
It's a tavern with mock battles as entertainment.
Fair enough, I don't describe the tavern, and that might a white room issue in the making.
Maybe it would be fun to describe, but I feel like this chapter is already bloated with.
>>25203830
There is a story there.
>>25203838
>>right now this part of the conversation is moving at breakneck speed for seemingly no reason
The reason is that I have to get this part of the way, so the rest of the chapter can happen in the same chapter. It's already 500 words. Within the rest of chapter, I somehow have to fit the following events:
>Cale debating with a Fire Nymph about the merits of happiness, devotion, and obligation
>Said Nymph getting killed by another nymph during the duel
>Cale visiting his sister's mansion
>Cale notices his sister has become a subject of domestic violence
>Cale wanting to intervene, but his sister protests, resulting in a falling out


Either way, I genuinely appreciate all of your anons critique here.

>>25203838
>Lascurel doesn't know MC has been exiled.
>i do not care anon, there is such a thing as a double meaning that the reader is in on and the speaker is not
Can you elaborate? You sound fucking retarded.

Long-lasting fantasy stories really benefit from maps.

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Any good sci-fi webnovels? Any of them having mecha elements to it?

>>25204190
i can rec you an unfinished series with around 4-5 books about fantasy mecha in space BY an active webnovel author

>>25204190
First Contact
The Allbright System
Stray Cat Strut

>>25204184
>tfw not a classically trained cartographer
it's fucking over...

>>25204207
>write a world where proper mapping technique doesn't exist
>lampshade everyone is bad at drawing maps
>my scribbles are now lore accurate
I don't CARE wtf a rainshadow is, my mountains go in THIS direction and there's a tower of babylon in the middle of the grassy plains where the beastmen (catgirls) live, DEAL WITH IT

>>25204207
>tfw lucky enough to have read and own a fantasy series by a guy who was a cartographer and drew his own maps

>>25204190
mine... oh, you said good. never mind :(

>>25204207
Making maps is easy.

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>>25204184
I have one of those, continental US for scale.

>>25204234
>>25204243
ummmm do the geological features make tectonic sense? do the landforms and shorelines produce logical weather systems? where do ocean currents fit into this?

>>25204249
I know you're doing a bit, but shit like this is why I decided if I'm gonna do a fantasy world, it's gonna have physical laws governed by magic and take place on a fucking cylindrical world.

>>25204249
Considering all of the islands float in the sky, none of that is relevant.

>>25203492
I learn it from the Nabby copypasta about Dosto

>>25204249
don't worry about tectonic plates
Tolkien and GRRM didn't

>>25204226
Class of 9099 anon is that you?

>>25204308
nope

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>>25204190

>Look for new VN in Genre I enjoy
>read until the end
>leave 150+ word comment
>rinse and repeat for 3 hours
Simple as.

>look at old chapters
>want to blow my head clean off

>>25204404
>look at something I just wrote
>disgusted with myself

>>25204413
WN(GMI) General ;_;

>>25204243
Looks cool
>>25204207
You don't have to be.

>>25204404
>>25204413
Skill issue
>read my old work
>it's great and makes me laugh sincerely

Just write better.

>>25204476
insightful /v/ commentary

>>25204404
>>25204413
Self reflection is a direct path to success.
WAGMI

>>25204214
Those details are typically not that important. There are a million bizarre things that are contradictory to what surface level geography says should happen in the real world, so it's not that hard to accept that there are many ways why that fantasy geography still makes sense.
Take northern Europe as an example: the land is rising (relative to sea level) at a rate of 2-9 mm per year. There are random giant rocks throughout the area and an enormous amount of lakes. The salinity of the Baltic Sea is low enough that you can drink the water from the surface and actually hydrate, despite it being connected to the world ocean.
The reason for all of these is that during the last ice age northern Europe was covered by glaciers. These are all consequences of that, but if you're around today you don't really think about glaciers that disappeared 10000 years ago, but their effects are still felt.

>>25204404
>read my old work
>feel impressed
>wonder how I ever wrote something this good
>get locked in place worrying I'll never regain what I've lost

>>25204483
Interestingly enough, the modern Amazon rainforest only exists due to human caused desertification of the Sahara. (Not in the stupid climate change way, but because we overgrazed cattle there thousands of years ago.)
Phosphates are carried by wind across the atlantic an deposited over the south american continent. Effectively south america continent taking north africa's once vibrant soil quality.
Knock on effects like this are difficult to predict and apply.

>>25204404
>read my old work
>fap to it
>"damn that's good stuff"
>half a star and one comment

Has any author ever decided to rewrite a webnovel and realize that they didn't like it enough and re-upload the edited story? Or is it simply too late and authors just go with the flow?
Or, is the best way to go about it is to rename it under the guise of something new?
This'll be me, I'll realize I didn't like my magnum opus and fix it later on.

>>25204512
It's almost always a waste of time and effort better spent on writing something new and better.

>>25204512
Sunk-cost is unironically your friend in this hobby.
* Finish it
* Edit it
* Re-release it on a 12 hour schedule
You need to train your brain to be tolerant of mediocrity in order to improve.

>>25204512
yes
not only has it been done, it's been established as a winning strategy for attention because you transfer your readerbase to a new upload and get another shot at winning the algorithm lottery

>>25204521
>>25204523
only relaunch if you fucked up the initial launch. if you released with a reasonable methodology it will not do better the next time just because you cleaned some parts up

Threadly reminder not to reply to Tinashit.

>>25200571
>>25202863
>RE: Born Under a Black Sun

Hello again, anon. I enjoyed your book and left a positive review. I'll read your sequel when it releases. I assume that the ebook you linked me in /sffg/ about two weeks ago is the most recent version so here are two glaring errors I noticed that you may or may not be already aware of:
At the end of the chapter 24 flashback, the search phrase you are looking for is "Farstride wasn't cuddled up in the warm fur [...]" where the name should be Belhein. It's okay, I get it. Farstride is hot.
There is no page break between the end of ch. 25 and start of ch. 26.

Another observation: I read this on an e-reader and your epitaph (am I using that term correctly?) font is painfully smaller than normal. Maybe change the font and increase the size, or re-do that entire compendium idea. I don't know.

>RE: Stranger's Fate
This guy has a way with words, excellent knowledge of the in-world voice, and sadly, absolutely zero mentions of this in the /v/ archives. I've read the first five chapters. The author puts many authors to shame through the method which he portrays the MC's reality tunnel.

If you are familiar with TES lore, then this fanfic involves our Breton protagonist, a researcher of the Ancestral Moth Cults, getting into a wacky Mantling mess where he is kidnapped by Caius and accused of being in Elsweyr -- of which he claims to have not been and had documentation to prove it -- during a tricky mess where two (2!) of the same exact Mane appeared, verified by many other witnesses and interrogators.

I can't wait to see where this goes, brothers.

>>25204545
It's not about Performance it's about improving at the aspects of the craft that are about you rather than the subject/release methodology/luck.

>>25204549
Thank you for your service.

>>25204569
hm but why not start a new story then? most newb issues are deeply intertwined/structural to the story and starting over and trying to do things correctly this time from the ground up is much better for learning
only paragraph-level stuff can be painted over and improved in the way you're talking about, unless i'm still misunderstanding you

>>25204569
if you're talking craft and skill refinement, starting a new project is much more effective for that
sure, there's specific insight to be had in rewriting, but I'd say you're much more likely to learn and improve by starting new projects than reworking old ones

>>25204190
Outrun

Threadly reminder to do your part and report off-topic flamewar-inciting posts.

>>25204549
I am reminded

>>25204523
>it's been established as a winning strategy
Not really? It's a very niche, sometimes-works-okay strategy. The vast majority of people who try this pull roughly the same numbers.
The best performer I can think of is REND and even that didn't do amazingly better, just somewhat better

>>25204597
What would Spectral Soul do?

>>25204565
Rare to see someone actually read stuff here.

>>25204675
Probably try to suck himself off.

>>25204153
>>25204155
>"Looks like they'll let anyone in here" is a common enough greeting for Lascurel to say it regardless of his knowledge/ignorance of Cale's exile
>the phrase is common enough to read like lighthearted tavern ball-busting to inattentive readers
>attentive readers will recognise the literal subtext behind the banter
yes I'm autistic but I just don't understand why you'd architect a scene that seems to call for this very obvious line and then never use it
it makes a hell of a lot more sense than "Look at that," which not only isn't a greeting, but is basically trying to communicate the same thing (i.e feigning surprise at the MC's presence in a public tavern, with the irony being that the person receiving that greeting actually shouldn't be there, and the speaker doesn't know it)
the replacement line makes that irony more pointed and sounds more charming and engaging, "Look at that" just doesn't hook a reader into a scene

>>25204732
I am an immigrant 'from' /sffg/; from '/lit/; from old9k. I read anything remotely interesting. UNFORTUNATELY I am imprisoned within a chamber of "read megapopular bestselling/trending garbage or suffer eternally within an echo chamber".

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is this an actual problem for cultivators?

Don't forget to report and ignore newfags like >>25204549 who actively contribute to off-topic discussion and have been spamming off-topic for literal years.
https://warosu.org/lit/?task=search&ghost=false&search_text=tinashit

>>25205119
were you just hoping no one would check the link your provided or something?
dumb fuck

>>25205117
not for the protagonist
and everyone except the protagonist isn't a real person with real feelings so who cares

>>25205117
goon/coom shit in cultivation novels is a problem

>>25205117
Thr Huli Jing will transfer her pearl to your mouth and you feel ecstasy with cum in your mouth and thrn you swallow to steal her immortality

>The Grandmaster Strategist
>the MC is weak and has no martial arts
>never gets them either
>instead he gets a super loyal servant who is a martial arts genius and they're basically attached at the hip
might as well have let the MC have the powers at that point

still enjoyed the novel though

>>25205242
>cum
but isn't it just my own (gross) domestic product? nobody else was involved.

>>25203479
Same thing happened to me. First .5 review made it very explicit that they "were bored to tears because the story is so slow... and feels like a waste of time."

I wonder what this guy thinks of New Life as Max Level Archmage and Super Supportive. They also have really slow and uneventful beginnings (until around chapter 20, or even beyond).

>>25205317
When you look at these popular stories, they're not very eventful, technically, but they at least make it clear who's doing what, where, and why and what comes next. It may not be well told or even engaging, but they do maintain a sense of purpose and continuity.

Meanwhile, most anons' stories kick off in the middle of nowhere with some literally who bantering with a nobody about nothing. I often have intense trouble telling who's even supposed to be the protagonist and you really have to dig to find what's the point. All the basic building blocks of storytelling are missing. Reader reactions are understandable.

any lovey dovey recs?
unending bliss and happiness
I yearn for it

Any decent regression sloppa you guys enjoy? I'm almos done with whats out from reborn apocalypse

Archmage story, but boob size scales with mana pool.

>In the shimmering spires of Eldrathar, where ley lines wove through the sky like veins of liquid starlight, magic was not merely power—it was form. Among the Archmagi, mana did not hide in dusty tomes or glowing runes. It manifested.
>Elyndra Voss was the greatest of them.
>She stood atop the Obsidian Tower as thunderheads gathered, her robes of midnight silk clinging to a figure that defied mortal proportion. Her breasts, heavy and impossibly firm, strained against enchanted fabric woven with reinforcement sigils. Each was larger than her head, rising and falling with slow, tidal breaths. At full strength, they glowed faintly with inner azure light, arcane veins tracing delicate patterns beneath translucent skin. Scholars whispered that her mana pool rivaled the ancient dragon fonts. Others simply stared.
>Tonight, the pool was dangerously low.
>A rift had torn open above the city—an Abyssal Breach summoned by the Necromancer-King Thal’vorr. Undead legions poured through, and every spell Elyndra cast drained her reserves. With each blast of starfire, her magnificent form diminished. The upper slopes of her cleavage, once deep enough to lose a grimoire in, now showed the first hints of shrinkage. The enchanted fabric hung looser. Her movements felt lighter, weaker.
>“Damn him,” she hissed, voice rich as velvet and sharp as a ritual dagger.
>A young apprentice, Lirien, rushed to her side—herself blessed (or cursed) with only a respectable C-cup that marked her as a mid-tier talent.
>“Archmage! Your… your reserves—”
>“I can feel it,” Elyndra snapped.

I hate copy pasting on a phone.

Which are the best completed webnovels?

>>25205334
Very good point. I think action movies and manga have implanted the idea "only action equals advancing the story" in my head, unfortunately. My webnovel is indeed very action-oriented and fast paced. I can't stand chapters in which literally nothing happens, although Super Supportive and Max Level Archmage are two of the few exceptions I adore.

bros my whimsical comic slice of life is turning into a slow-burn tragedy
i didn't mean for it to happen i just can't write humour

>>25205506
It's all about the presentation. When people say something is "slow" they don't really mean there isn't enough stuff happening. It's just a way to say what happens is not engaging. You could write about paint drying and keep people hooked if you give it in easily digestible lines and create the illusion that it all leads somewhere. Increasing the volume of action is the worst thing to do, because then the events lose significance and seem even more boring.

I simply LOVE edging my readers bros
I love building the tension until everyone is about to BURST

>>25205489
Reverend Insanity

>>25205119
>First usage of the term is in December
What did xhe mean by this?

>>25205447
there's Princess of the Void

>>25205528
Are you using AI to generate these replies? They're way too perfect. Perfectly reasonable and eloquent. If you're the mind generating this, can I read your work, please?

>>25205669
Are you being sarcastic? I write my 4chong posts as plainly as I can.

>>25205726
i think he's saying that you're economical with your words in a way that he can't replicate
>>25205669
the ability to share information briefly is something you can learn from writing webnovels as long as you restrict yourself to a certain word count per chapter and commit to specific beats before you start writing

>>25205489
Worm, A Practical Guide to Evil, Mother of Learning

>>25205857
>Worm
3/5
>A Practical Guide to Evil
1/5
>Mother of Learning
4/5

>>25205864
Ironically I found Mother of Learning the worst of the three, it's just that completed web novels are really rare so it made the list.

>>25203526
>castaway
Like, a LitRPG about someone who is stranded? Wouldn’t that just end up being Minecraft at that point?
Also, that’s a big bitch in the pic. Would snu snu.

>>25205864
>Practical Guide to Evil
>1/5
I was about to read it since my friend recommended it to me. Is it really that bad?

What's the big ick or eww you got from it?

I plan to read 1% Lifesteal instead if it really is horrible.

>>25205180
>not for the protagonist
A fox is fine too?

>>25205955
I have no idea why that anon gave it such a low score. For one it's far too well written to deserve a score of 1. Personal tastes differ I guess, personally I'd rated it better than 1% Lifesteal.

>>25205992
nta but it's probably the Stronk Female Lead stuff which is very heavy handed, even by the standards of other female protag stuff. I can see how someone would be put off

>minor edits and Relaunch on RR
>hard rework and launch on smaller site (
Which one?
No not "both". The hard rework takes more time meaning a site with faster turnover can more easily bury it.

>>25206040
the productive answer is neither but since you want to relaunch anyway, then do heavier rewrites because at least there's more to learn there

Wait honeyfeed doesn't have a no smut rule?

Honeyfeed is such a tiny noname website, why does it get mentioned so much?

>>25206106
Anything to escape the Royalroad mafia

>>25206109
This.
RR has calcified and people are getting tired of it.

>>25206106
A tiny audience is better than a large one you have no chance of actually getting a slice of.

>>25206106
I can only speak for myself but I'm interested because they seem to not be as biased towards a small set or trends

>>25206117
If you can't get 200+ followers on RR, you're not getting even 10 on honeyfeed. It being small doesn't mean people's tastes are somehow different and the ratio of creators vs readers is even worse

>>25206106
my shit is so off-meta I don't even want it on the website dominating the meta

>>25205992
>>25206004
a bit turned off seeing that it might be preachy about the 'strong women' but I'll still read it, albeit, after 1% Lifesteal.

Any good isekai WNs that aren't super gimmicky (other than perhaps the start gimmick) and are just a straight shooting-the-shit story? Kinda like Azarinth Healer, or anything by FUNA. I'd try more Japanese LNs, but they are so terribly written most of the time.

>>25206171
My favorite ones are Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear and Reincarnated as a Sword. Haven't come across others I enjoyed as much, though I've read many

I read an A.I. generated story for the first time, I had no idea such a website existed. It was actually pretty good

https://wtr-lab.com/en/novel/13549/the-growth-of-primitive-civilization

>>25206120
I think this is only true because the reader base is so tiny that no meta has formed.
I don't know of any writing website that doesn't have a dominating meta, that's just how it works
If Honeyfeed ever starts getting readers en masse it'll develop one too.

>>25206201
Buy an ad

>>25206117
The #1 novel in monthly views on Honeyfeed is getting ~7 views on their most recently released chapters with 0 comments
So that's your best-feasible level of success lol. The #1 monthly ranked

>>25206157
it's not preachy about it, gender is more or less ignored completely (which is the issue in some people's eyes)
Cat is a power fantasy character. unreasonably good at too many things, pulls miracles out of her ass constantly. people are fine with that when it's a guy so idk why people hate when it's a fmc

>>25206216
Oh absolutely.
I wanna be one of the people who set the meta.

>>25206226
most likely it'll turn into a romance site, that's how most of them go

>>25206218
This is the web novel general isn't it? I'm talking about a web novel, however you are simply whining about nothing at all. Go back to discord.

>>25206232
no, you're advertising your shitty ai website. buy an ad

>>25206235
Boo! A.I.!! How scary! brother... you are pathetic

>>25206171
I don't understand what you even mean by gimmicky.
FUNA novels all stay consistent with their gimmick (average actually equals OP, ability to make potions is retardedly broken, smug loli capitalist does capitalism) and Azarinth Healer stays "punch things harder and with magic" the entire time.

Other than that neither example is remotely like the others in terms of themes, prose, plot structure. The only thing they share I'm not going to say, and if you can't see it don't ask, I won't respond.

Just browse the Fantasy RS page or browse through LN publishing sites to see what's in their catalog.

>>25206251
ai stories aren't scary they're just terrible. you have bad taste even for a slopper
but that's not even what we're talking about: stop advertising your shit in this thread and buy an ad you cretin

>>25206129
That is not how discoverability works.

>>25206260
but honeyfeed doesn't have better discoverability. it has three lists to look through (new, weekly, monthly) and drastically worse search functions, while also having 1/1000 as many active readers

>>25206258
It's the blatantness that gets me. People posting their own work that's hosted on a well known website? Yeah, that's fine. Posting someone else's work (That not even the author made themself) on a website nobody has heard of? Fishy as hell.

>>25206252
What they share (other than FeMC) is that they're mostly about shooting the shit, without massive stakes. What I mean by gimmicky I guess is not well-defined, but think of it this way: the story is not centered around the gimmick itself, but about doing fun stuff with it.

For instance, in the top RS "I built this City" which almost qualifies, but doesn't; I can't see this story about being anything other than exploring the gimmick itself.

Abilities Average, on the other hand--yes, she is OP, but the story is just exploring the world.

>>25206270
>yes, she is OP, but the story is just exploring the world.
I mean, this is basically Max Level Archmage one to one. the so called plot is pretty irrelevant. i think it fits your criteria

>>25206265
The discoverability is really just contest participation. You jam out a LN sized story that coincides with the current theme and engage with the other users also doing that. Straying from that cuts the chances you get seen down significantly.

>>25206273
Okay, but everyone ITT has already read MLA; I'm asking for others.

And MLA is a bit too squeaky clean for my taste.

>>25206281
>MLA
My Lero Academia?

>>25206292
My Lame Adventure.

>>25206270
>without massive stakes
Bro have you even finished AH or caught up in Abilities?

Anyway you might enjoy Spice & Wolf. Or you could just browse the slice of life tag.

>>25206301
>finished AH
I've only read the books (book 6?). There are stakes, but they're not really the day-to-day, so to speak.

>Abilities
I'm not sure if you're referring to LN 18+ which I haven't read, but if you mean the portal invasion thing, that could hardly be considered the main driver behind the story.

>>25206232
buy an ad

>>25206232
buy an ad bitch

>>25205645
It's cute how (You) act and behave as if you are an unpredictable storm while claiming that pattern recognition does not exist because (You) say so.

>>25206410
>(((You)))
FTFY

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>>25205877
Minecraft, Ark, Subnautica, Raft, Windrose, etc.
With how popular survival crafting games are, it’s only a matter of time until somebody writes a dude invents fire, battles sea monsters, and conquers an island of eight feet tall orc women book of my dreams.
…Maybe. Hopefully.
One of these days now…

>>25203457
If the first chapter isn't interesting enought, none will continue, right?
So, how come so many novels still have horrible first chapter and still large following.

>>25206561
First off, it's not an absolute rule. There are no absolutes in art
But most of the big stories with terrible first chapters are very old and had first mover advantage/a lack of competition, and consistently delivering what readers wanted made them pick up an audience over a long period of time anyway
Hooky first chapters are far more important in competitive environments, which RoyalRoad has certainly become.
Which big blow-up stories have terrible first chapters that are less than 3 years old? It's much less common to see that now.

>>25206561
webnovel reader tolerance for weak first chapters is much higher than trad novel readers, and this tolerance rises in proportion with the novel's existing readership and thus perceived popularity. the force of consensus, even passive, is enough to convince many that it's worth pushing through.

>>25206201
Is it even AI generated? Do you mean AI translated?

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>>25206519
I KNOW YOU'RE USING SPACE SATELLITES TO SPY ON MY DREAMS GLOWIE

>>25206595
Yeah he means MTL. The site uses some kind of automated AI system that uses the latest models to translate all the content. Despite the #ads the results still suck, almost everything is still incomprehensible.

>>25206607
How can it be so shit? I can paste chapter after chapter into a free version of gemini and get a 99% accurate translation, the only things wrong are usually names of places etc

>>25206614
I honestly have no idea. I picked several stories at random and a few off the top read list and it was all utter gibberish.

>>25206323
Okay fair enough you haven't read that far yet. I won't spoil you any further. Anyway you'll want LNs with "slow life" in the title or WNs with the slice of life tag. Or something in the blurb about slow pacing.

You should be a little careful about saying a story has "low stakes." A lot of slow paced or even slice of life stories wind up having high stakes, it's just the way they're handled is "low tension." Most OPMC stories are this way: there ARE high stakes, but you know the OP is MC so they're going to handle it and you don't need to worry about it. Unlike, say, ASOIAF where you read every chapter worried about whether some character you like is going to die or something horrible is going to happen.

>>25206387
>>25206391
This is the newfag obsessed with "Tina" who acts shocked and awed that people recognize his stock repeated phrase and behavior every thread.

>>25206723
>randomly mentioning and defending tina
>fixation on newfags
tina ir /sffg/ refugee, call it
>ardent AI advocate
why is it always an emotionally volatile guy between his mid 30s-40s

>>25203457
Is anyone going to start writing essays or literary criticism on the rise of the web novel? You know someone needs to map out all the significant developments, such as LitRPG, cultivation, harem, dynasty building, etc. It could be like Lovecraft’s essay on Supernatural Horror, and act as a guide for any prospective writer of web novels.

>>25206894
the culture is way too broad and splintered across too many sites (if not languages and countries, with all these niche communities feeding off each other in various ways), and the vast majority of all that development is totally undocumented. I'm not sure anyone even could write an accurate overview
more realistically you'd need to approach only a single site's culture

>>25206928
>fragmented cultural development that's convoluted by cross cultural communication
sounds like a standard anthropological subject
>>25206894
it does sound interesting to have a thorough examination of a culture built around escapism and the pursuit of comfort/small joys but I don't see anyone going through the effort

>>25205726
No sarcasm. I'm genuinely interested.

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lol
I'm a stranger to the fanfic world so the novelty might seem overly fresh, but fanfic writers have a strange brand of creativity
derivatively unique and often bizarre

>>25206995
>sounds like a standard anthropological subject
aren't most such subjects fairly well documented though? I can't even imagine how I would begin studying the topic with any level of accuracy. it's so incredibly niche
you could sort by old forum posts and try to fabricate some kind of narrative by looking at popular stories for each year, I guess, but whatever report you end up making would almost definitely be literal fanfiction

>>25207033
That's how real history works, too. It's why there's a billion books about the civil war and WW2 and they all have different takes on it.

>>25206785
>randomly mentioning "Tina" and responding within minutes
You are new to 4chan and you do not understand concepts such as pattern recognition.
>AI out of nowhere
Try making shit up to people in real life and see how that works out for you.

>>25207041
fair enough, but at least those topics have plenty of sources to scrape through. the point is that there's basically nothing whatsoever for web novels so if you think something like WW2 is half fanfiction, whatever a stranger to the community fabricates for an evolution of web novels will be genuine total nonsense to the point of hilarity

>>25207045
the most annoying thing about you might be the constant non-sequiturs and complete inability to register what's being said
the reply chain is literally about an AI site and the dismissal of its promotion. at no point is tina involved until the sudden and unprompted defense, which is in response to bashing AI promotion as if there's a correlation between anti AI shills and tina bashing
hang yourself you subsentient amoeba

>>25207064
>AI babble
You bring up "Tina" every thread then act upset that other people like myself observe you mentioning "Tina". Use a tripcode so I can filter your off-topic narcissistic underage babble.

>>25207084
My tinfoil hat conspiracy is that tina left long ago, and every thread has 1-2 people pretending to be tina to keep xer memory alive.

>>25207092
kinda funny
xhiye did stop shilling their moonquill page awhile ago

>>25207092
at the very least the most obvious of his posting patterns disappeared, like the empty lines with >, although some of the rambling posts still have a very clear cadence that can only be him

>>25207092
Anybody who attempts to discuss on-topic themes is "Tina" to that newfag shitposter.

>>25207100
He's an unnecessarily abrasive regular, but the insult tina is specifically reserved for the babbling posts that fail to follow a conversation's throughline in the slightest. Which is a definite problem here and something tina was famous for. I haven't seen rude anon usethe name otherwise, he'll just call the poster retard, grifter, etc

>>25205334
Are there any more indicators of what constitutes bad storytelling? (second paragraph)

I've stumbled upon countless pointless attempts at webnoveling like this, but I've never taken the time to make an exhaustive list of factors as to why a story is bad or not.

>>25207114
It's just silly how newfags are so fucking unintelligent that they expect everybody else to be as stupid as they, and act shocked and awed that they spam the same phrases and buzzwords every thread then expect you and everybody else to treat them like some unique paragon to humanity.

i watched Lycoris Recoil recently and really liked it
web novels for this feel?

>>25207046
Well to some extent forum posts and website archives are BETTER than the sources used for war: they're all primary source material, compared to things like interviews decades later and biased news articles written at the time and the problem of some info being considered state secrets and other info being buried in archives.

Of course I don't think it'll be perfect either. Historical research is incredibly time consuming for professionals. But the video essays would probably be entertaining enough.

>>25207096
God, what a fucking failure Moonquill ended up being. RR should have gone with literally anyone else. Aethon would have been ten times better.

>>25207192
they definitely could've started an independent publishing company
huge fumble

>>25207192
I actually really appreciate how it was a noname pubber who got that contract, because it proved that dogshit stories won't pick up followers just because they have constant 24/7 front page exposure
Success really is merit based

>>25207202
>Success really is merit based
trust fund baby logic

>>25207213
I saw stories be on the front page for 6 months gain like 20 followers despite insane exposure
Meanwhile good sloppa puts on followers like crazy
Stay coping though

>>25207202
imagine believing in the american dream in the midst of the country's collapse

>>25207219
I don't care about the american dream I care about facts I observed with my own two eyes. Try it sometime

>>25207219
You're the first person to mention Am*rica.
Try talking about webnovels next time.

>>25207230
holy autism
please tell my your winnie is light on dialogue anon

>>25207218
>slop
>coping
newfagGPT uh ohhhh

uh oh the sperg with an obvious vendetta is back
who called you a retard? it's okay, let it out

>>25207218
NTA, but I can agree with that. It gives me plenty of schadenfreude seeing them fail despite the massive advantage they were given (Moonquill and those who they signed).
That said, I think Moonquill is just flat out incompetent. They don't have their finger on the pulse, they do diddly squat for their writers, and they act like a bunch of amateurs.
Even another noname pubber could do their job better.

>>25207247
it's really more that moonquill was just massively incompetent rather than any merit based power of the free market thing
most of the stories they sponsored being garbage certainly didn't help

>>25207250
But... that's what I said?

>>25207250
But it dispelled the myth that followers=exposure and nothing else
Those stories had incredible levels of exposure (huge banner ad 24/7 for months) and still gained basically no readers.
Stories that just started and only get exposure through the new releases list gained (and do gain) readers much faster.
Success is merit based. Various anons just have angst about what merit means, because their taste varies from the norm and they're contrarian by nature

>>25207255
wrong

>>25207254
I was affirming your sentiment
bit unclear I suppose

>>25207256
Your lack of proper response only emboldens my perspective

>>25207246
>non-quote
>ad hom
Hello, "reminder to report Tinashit and dissuaded ontopic discussion" nigger.

>>25207260
low effort trolling deserves low effort responses

>>25207259
Ah. Fair enough.

>>25207262
i am not that anon, but I am getting tired of your obvious retard rage myself

>>25207267
>NTA but I don't like your posts!
Sure.

>>25207263
>Your lack of proper response only emboldens my perspective

>>25207262
this fixation on there being some boogeyman who is against ontopic discussion is bizarre
I suspect you're an idiot who garners ill-will by being a moron, and that you've conflated being called a retard whenever you pipe up as evidence of you being gangstalked by one person out to ruin all on topic discussion

>>25207270
>I'm new to 4chan and here is my strawman about your personal life
LOL

>>25207269
you don't have a perspective

you just post whatever gets you the most attention at any given moment

>>25207272
>Your lack of proper response only emboldens my perspective

>>25207272
>>25207275
One of these is the petulant newfag nigger actively dissuading ontopic discussion.

>>25207271
>sudden newfag narrative
/sffg/ refugee then
there's maybe 3 regulars who can contribute to a cogent conversation. it seems as though every new voice that starts posting regularly is an absolute cretin

>>25207271
Yeah he's done that to me a few times. I don't agree with this retard >>25207277 who has a vendetta and is making it the thread's problem, but I think we all agree that we hate this guy, even if I just try to ignore him (>>25207270) most of the time

>>25207278
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pattern_recognition
I have had more enlightening interactions with some of my nonverbal autistic patients than the literal children on /lit/, like yourself.

>>25207282
you accuse different people of this every day but yeah bud, for sure

>>25207288
>everybody is a different person
right down the newfag rulebook

>>25207289
Oh its that one weird newfag guy.
>What does you being a newag have to do with coming to 4chan after 2016?
Yeah that's right, I did it first.

>>25207297
Most honest newfag.

at what point in terms of themes (that are not something ludicrous like TND or Race War Now) will the theme itself distract the reader from the story?

>ie.
>WN has competent plot development, writer is a relatively quick and skillful writer, it’s engaging and pleasant to read
>however, the theme of the WN can be surmised as: nobles are morally, spiritually, and physically superior to the peasant class, and that common people are as a whole genuinely evil and short sighted gremlins who would doom humanity to an infinity of stagnation and eventual extinction if not properly subjugated and directed by their betters.
>this theme is exegetic and can be assumed as an opinion of this hypothetical author

>>25207302
i think an RR audience would have little appetite for atlas shrugged-lite

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>>25206109
>>25206113
How is RoyalRoad a mafia? To me, they (both staff and readers) really seem to support anyone who really tries to write good stories. Not only with words of encouragement, but also a patreon subscription here and there. A really wholesome and cool community in my opinion, honestly.

>>25207311
Outsiders invade a thriving niche space and get upset that the culture doesn't fit them. Whine and complain endlessly. It's a story old as time.

>>25207302
when the story ceases to function as a narrative construct and begins to address itself over the reader
if the themes are abstracted (is there a term for applying a layer of derivation that makes the subject more tangible rather than less?) into elements of the story (characters, setting, plot, etc), and the actions of those elements are designed with a purpose for the reader other than informing them of your views (i.e the experiential aspects of emotion, imagination, and dramatic speculation/uncertainty)
essays conversely are primarily concerned with the truth and logical construction of its contents, with the reader's understanding and ability to interface with the essay's content as second order to that construction
I hope your completely hypothetical author friend who goes to another school just writes his story without overthinking it

>>25207311
niche subculture grows in popularity and attracts sociopaths
in this case, cabals who coordinate releases, shout swap, review swap, and generally try to manipulate the algorithm to ensure success for themselves and their in-group
I agree that RR is pretty good and has a strong hobbyist/nerd core. resenting RR itself is odd

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>there is no Royal Road mafia

>>25207311
if you dont write very bare minimum litrpg you just get ignored, simple as that.

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This isn't anywhere near publication, yet, but I've been toying with writing a story around a benign hivemind and one of the issues I'm confronted with is them convincing other characters they are actually a hivemind and not a hostile mimic that others would have to trust purely based on vibes, since obviously most people aren't going to trust an amorphous alien growth that eats people.

I've struck upon the idea of them halfway eating a volunteer so that the hivemind is basically working like half their brain in sort of a drastic demonstration that people taken into the hivemind retain their thoughts and personalities. One side of most of their head would be completely eaten away, but the other side would still be intact and normal under scans and they'd be able to speak and respond as if nothing was wrong.

First of all, has anyone seen anything like that in other stories, not necessarily the body horror aspect, but someone heavily physically modified by something that could in theory have "replaced them" having enough of their original physical self to prove that they must still be them? I don't want any "in my heart of hearts I know it must be them" or "I see it in their eyes" bullshit like you see in a lot of similar stories.

Second of all, if you saw someone with half their head gone talking as if nothing was wrong, would you be more comforted that they're okay or conclude god is dead and hell has come to earth?

>>25207342
>benign hivemind
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/45048/hive-minds-give-good-hugs
haven't read it but this was brought to mind
>Second of all
there would be no comfort. if anything, the idea that the entity was able to retain a part of the person's old self would make me conclude they're able to essentially hold them prisoner in their own head, which is horrific. and talking with half a head is just scary

>>25207350
>if anything, the idea that the entity was able to retain a part of the person's old self
No, the idea is they retain all of a person's self. It's just they haven't eaten all of the volunteer yet, so the part of her in the hivemind's body is communicating with the part of her in her original body to form a coherent mind while she's being Ship of Theseus'd into the hivemind.

>they're able to essentially hold them prisoner in their own head
I mean technically, yeah. But that's not particularly different from your neighbors in theory being able to capture you and lock you in a room for the rest of your life. Why would they do that? Especially if they could hear all your thoughts and feel all your misery about being locked up?

>>25207255
This is basically correct. Writing well and on-market is the best way to find success on RR. I don't know how it is for Amazon but I assume it's the same with a bit more focus on fishing for ratings and cover/blurb work.

Works that don't find success are usually poorly written or off-market.

>>25207357
yeah, I get the premise but as a humie my kneejerk reaction would be to be freaked out about it. side effect of valuing autonomy
you could probably do some /wbg/ autism and worldbuild some sort of slave mentality culture that wouldn't see anything wrong with it
>Especially if they could hear all your thoughts and feel all your misery about being locked up?
the rhetoric that the enslaving force would have to experience you being upset about being enslaved is hilarious and you should definitely include that as a dialogue exchange in your story
>I'd never kidnap you and hold you hostage in my home!
>can you imagine listening to someone scream and beg for release all day?
>hell, at that point I'M the real prisoner!

>>25207342
Can't say anything to the former, but no, I would not be okay seeing someone talk with half their head missing.
As for the issue of convincing others that this hivemind is actually benign... that's a tough one. I can't see any real trust between this hivemind and regular people unless those under its control look considerably different and it's very upfront about itself and its intentions. Paranoia is a very volatile emotion. Not even a Star Trek type federation would tolerate a being that can convert people without them even knowing. If assimilation is a completely voluntary thing (Or that's the perception it manages to make), that'd help ease things. Showing the benefits of it would also help sell it.
Of course, there's still going to be problems. If someone's husband/wife gets assimilated and then has a harsh divorce, what do you think is going to happen? That scorned partner is going to look for excuses why their marriage fell apart and blame the hivemind as a scapegoat. The hivemind is the perfect target for hate and fear mongering regardless of how it acts.

>>25207367
They're benign, not an enslaving force. The premise is a galactic level hivemind that communicates between planets through relays creates copies of itself for diplomatic missions to planets that don't have relays set up. One such copy experiences technical issues and is force to land on a galactic backwater where attempts to go into stasis until the lifeforms there become galaxy faring go awry. Now they're attempting to not start an international war and/or get nuked due to their nature.

>>25207329
Based on that logic, KFC is also a mafia because they don't serve anything that isn't very bare minimum chicken.

>>25207311
>seem to support anyone who really tries to write good stories
They support whatever fits the brand, makes them look good and brings money. They don't give a single fuck about the rest.

>>25207130
>Are there any more indicators of what constitutes bad storytelling?

Well, not sure I'd call this strictly "bad storytelling," but let me ramble a bit. The next hurdle after establishing a compelling protagonist and communicating the founding goals of the story (and where most have flunked already) is "changing while staying the same." Meaning what?

After a writer hooks his audience, he often proceeds to do...nothing at all with his cool premise. He loaded all his ideas in the first handful of chapters and then the bank is empty. Turns out, spinning the yarn as it's happening wasn't so easy, after all. Then, following his big breakthrough, he returns to the square where the others started from: nobodies blabbering about nothing nowhere, or chapter after chapter of action without goals, and things stop moving. And then it's on hiatus and dropped.

Some more clever guys have concocted a nifty story loop, where the characters encounter a "problem" of the week and solve it using their unique characteristics. And then it loops. And loops. And loops. And readers get bored and leave. They loved the story, but now it's just the same thing over and over. You see this complaint a lot. Of course, very few winnie writers worry about their endgame. The goal is to milk the cattle for as long as possible. Forever, if possible. But the readers need the illusion that things are building up towards something bigger to stay entertained.

And then there are these rare creative visionaries, who do their own thing, who won't stop redefining themselves and their stories and take them to unexpected places. These stories often build a passionate cult following...but they rarely get huge-huge. They change too much, take too many risks, and soon cease to be the story the readers first signed up for.
So winnie writers have this paradoxical job to keep fresh and varied, while always wearing the same clothes. Take what you will from this wall of text.

>>25207525
do you have any thoughts on tonal flexibility, and when it becomes tonal confusion for the reader? e.g if an author sets out or promises to write a comedy filled with light moments, but needs a tragic vignette to explore why a character behaves a certain way, what are the differences in how this is done well/poorly?
are web novel readers happy to have a mixture of tones and genres if they enjoy the premise, or do they mostly want one consistent tone and emotion throughout?

>>25207532
That really depends on the presentation and it's hard to set universal standards for it. But generally, if you've established a family-friendly tone, then the tragedy stays in those boundaries too. Pull a "raped by a greasy uncle" backstory in a fluffy slice of life fiction and of course the audience will rip the author a new one. I've frankly never seen readers as sensitive to tone as on RR. Crack a joke in a "wrong" place and there'll be immediate feedback. But, as you may expect, straightforward bodily violence doesn't get nearly as big of a reaction as emotional or sexual themes.

>>25207438
nyo

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Do people really read this slop

>>25207610
I'll read it now

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Do I want to read this?

>>25207673
>Latest Chapter: Chapter 308
>Community Rating: 1 vote

>>25207584
go be a cat somewhere else.

>>25207673
What website is this?

>>25207673
>ts
>rape
uhhhhhhhhhhhhh

>>25207714
>>25207584

>>25206595
Nah, they're genuinely made using AI in chinese and then translated into english.

>>25207765
is there a name for slop that gas been pre-digested and regurgitated through a sloppy translator?

>>25207781
refried slop

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>>25206599
The collective unconscious is a powerful thing.

>>25203457
You should plan the entire web novel before posting a chapter, and I hope you polish it before anyone sees it.

>>25206723
This has to be a falseflag