>>25464683
>danymarket
Where's the danygrasssquat version?

Is it true GURM is actually a mid fantasy writer, not talking about worldbuilding but prose

>>25464923
there's no good sf/fantasy writers in terms of prose
want prose read litfic not genreslop

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Man he's posting like a dying boomer now too

>>25464923
No, he's not mid for fantasy but that's more reflective of fantasy having fucking atrocious prose. He's mid for an author.
>>25465117
>posting like a dying boomer
He IS a dying boomer.

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>>25464683

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>catelyn stark
>is a tully
>lysa arryn
>is a tully

>>25465375
Not really, if they had complete control of the history why include things like Maegor winning a trial of seven (albeit nearly dying in the process).

>>25465600
Because nobody cared that he won it.

>>25464923
His prose is decent and gets the job done, it's better than in a lot of other fantasy.
The line "The ship groaned and growled beneath him, like a constipated fat man straining to shit." is also a great example of an author being inspired by his own life.

>demons dwell in the spooky city of stygai
>never explained what demon actually means

>>25464923
George has better prose than most authors in the entire history of /lit/

>>25465600
>nearly
Lol. He died and was raised by magic, like Beric Dondarrion.

>>25465550
That's how marriage is supposed to work, married women being referred to by their maiden name is actually the weird part. You'll also note that Lady Dustin is a actually a Ryswell and Lady Hornwood a Manderly.

Why do Valyrian names make no sense gender-wise?

Aerys and Daenerys sound like they belong to the same gender.

>>25466139
Valyrians are culture shock. They’re supposed to be weird and alien and reptilian-esque. Especially if you believe that the original dragon breeders weren’t even human to begin with.

>>25466289
Then why make them hot?

>>25466289
That's kind of why I dislike all this extra backstory for the Targs. They're supposed to be alien, and yet we know more about them than we do about any other house.

>>25466291
Being unsettling and hot is a great combination.

>>25466022
Then why isn't Cersei called Cersei Baratheon, or Sansa, Sansa Lannister?

>>25466289
Then are humans crossed with dragons with blood magic.

>>25466625
>why isn't Cersei called Cersei Baratheon
Queens don't take their husband's surname for whatever reason.
>Sansa Lannister
Stannis calls her Lady Lannister at one point and since he's very proper about these things we know that's what she should be called.

I think the maesters and the Citadel are bad worldbuilding

If they were integral to the Faith of the Seven it'd work, but a secular monasticism just doesn't seem grounded in anything and no one would ever take it seriously. Imagine you told every college professor that he had to give up his wife, children and last name. They'd laugh you out of the room and then go back to their research.

how will dany and jon romance go in the books if it ever gets finished ?

>>25466963
it won't
the real question is how jon and sansa romance will go in the books if it ever gets finished ?

how good is ASOIAF, really? is it GOOD or just decent?

>>25466963
It'll have Dany falling for Jon but her losing her mind about if she now wants the throne now at the same time

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Does Condal have brain damage or something?

>>25466818
I do find it VERY odd that the Maesters AREN’T in league with the faith of the seven, since historically speaking the most learned individuals in medieval were of the Church, or had patrons in the Church. Oxford was founded by the Church.

The stereotypical scholarly wizard trope COMES from scholastic monks and clerics of the clergy. Even fucking Galileo and Isaac Newton were devout Christians. Newton was called the last of the magicians for his esoteric interests. He was more esotericist than natural philosopher proper. Poking at the mysteries of nature was seen as magic to onlookers. The pokers themselves held deeply mystical views and fantastical ideas. The father of medicinal minerals, the top physician of his day, was a downright nutcase who tried masturbating into chicken eggs to create the homunculus.

Really, the learned men back in medieval times were reconciling higher learning about nature in REGARDS to their faith in God. Learning about nature was seen as learning more about God’s grand design.

I’m shocked how many think Christianity held science back and was anti-intellectual. A lot within the Church had actually supported people like Galileo. The Church was filled with civil infighting much like any other highly layered organization, or nation.

The staunch (strongly implied) atheism of the Maesters feels TOO modern.

>>25467092
The first 3 books are good, the last 2 books are shit.

Overall it's kinda "meh" so far and it is unlikely to ever get finished.

The upper echelons of maesters within the Citadel know the truth about magic and “the gods” and how the Valyrians weaponized religion, playing or acting the part of the gods using the magic of their glass candles to solidify their control over the ignorant masses. The dragon lords saw themselves above the gods.

The maesters are suspicious of magic and religion because they know at its core it’s all about deception and control, and privilege. What is behind “the magic” isn’t a force for good. Obviously it’s not. It loves blood and suffering and sacrifice. If the Valyrians could manipulate religion, then surely something could manipulate the dragonlords, or magic itself. Magic is a game of layers, or curtains behind curtains, and it’s just unnerving. You’re submitting to something. What is it? You’ll likely never know.

A red priest’s visions in the flames could be being sent to her from a wizard staring into the still flame of his glass candle, and that glass candle might only be working because of something else unseen, which the wizard is completely unaware of, the same way the red priest is completely unaware of the wizard.

I love how retarded red priests are.

Melisandre is actually quite high iq with how she goes about her magic, as her POV has shown, but she’s still entirely consumed by her religion.

Reminds me of the world’s greatest mathematician, Euler, who was entirely absorbed by the Bible.

Maybe I'm missing something but its nevrr talked enough about how stupid of a concept of a character Daenerys is. But people can somehow acknowledge how stupid the Dothraki are (I know why, there has been a relatively modern concerted effort to dispel the myth of the Barbarians by historians once they took long enough to learn and understand that using the civilizations who named them barbarians as reference for understand the barbarian civilizations, was stupid. Archeology also probably helped in giving them avenues of understanding those civilizations that wasnt purely written text). She completely ignores and dismantles a civilizations way of life, to take them on her super special self centered journey, nobody among the Dothraku meaningfully challenges this, especially with the power vacuum which means those who had any discontent with Khal Drogo selling their way of life to follow some foreigner.
Then theres all the times where she thought she couldnt do something before, and then "just does it anyway" This happens a fair amount not just with Daenerys, its actually honestly the worst part of George's books, when characters just change their minds suddenly, or decide to do something they wouldn't usually do, for reasons that could basically only be magic, which spawns all the retarded theories where every character is secretly doing something else for some undisclosed reason because nobody in the community actually wants to admit that the story doesn't always do a good enough job of establishing sensible motivations.

Ted Talk over.

>>25467854
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60hBCxAgYpQ&t=38m49s

>>25467536
>Does Condal have brain damage or something?

Is he not aware of the Internet and that everybody can read his preposterous comment, discuss his blatant lie and call him out as the talentless hack he is?

>>25467536
>The staunch (strongly implied) atheism of ASOIAF feels TOO modern.

ftfy everything in the story is too modern. The nobility itself acts as if the faith is an inconvenience or a hinderance that they have to pay an homage to because all the smallfolk are ignorant religious idiots. Renly has an unbelievably strong claim to the throne on the merit that Stannis is an apostate. But that is barely brought up at all and despite Melisandre BURNING THE STATUES OF THE SEVEN ON DRAGONSTONE, half of his soldiers and the nobles backing him are still of that faith. Fucking ludicrous. As time goes on I just think I understand GRRM better and where he departs from Tolkien. Tolkien has an interest in myth and the origin of religion and where myth meets fairytale, where GRRM really is just a fan of historical fiction and is still writing a fictious War of the Roses at heart, with no care for religion beyond it as window dressing for the setting. There's a lot of cool interesting concepts of the world but I just think it's really bad for people to take away from this series that "LotR is a fairytale, Game of Thrones tells medieval history like it REALLY was" when it's not even remotely close to reality.

>>25467092
don't pick up a series that will never be finishef

>>25467878
Pretty much, ASoIaF is modern at its core, despite all the medieval layers. In fact, I haven't seen this comparison made, but ASoIaF has alot in common with the works of Marquis de Sade. In both cases, you have a pornographic portrayal of vice & violence, and a core moral of cynicism.

>>25465607
This. Trolling aside, he's very competent at the craft, especially when it comes to dramatic scenes & dialogue (which not everyone can pull off). Also decent worldbuilding, which is notable not for its cracks or omissions, but all the stuff that is there.

>>25467898
You can always re-read LotR, and then dive into the Silmarillion. Or you can re-read Dune, which was left unfinished, but still made it to 6/7 books.

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>>25467854
Wait till you hear whose pov chapters got compiled into a novella and won GRRM a Hugo award.

>>25467564
I like the way you think, anon

Anyone got some decent images of Vale or Riverlands villages/towns?

>>25467854
>nobody among the Dothraku meaningfully challenges this, especially with the power vacuum which means those who had any discontent with Khal Drogo selling their way of life to follow some foreigner.
I'm not sure what you mean. There's only a few dothraki that follow her and they only do it cause they saw her shit dragons out of a fire.

>>25468351
Maybe I remembered things wrong

>>25468588
Drogo's army breaks up into various Khalasars immediately after his death, only a few women and men remain with Daenerys and the men are tasked with taking her to Vaes Dothrak. They refuse to follow her orders until the dragons are born at which point they fall on their knees in awe.

>>25468592
>They refuse to follow her orders until the dragons are born at which point they fall on their knees in awe.
Thats barely any less stupid really it is rare to conquer a people without subsuming yourself with that culture except for imperialism which was at such a unique point of technological advancement and population explosion that its different. Magic Nukes wouldn't change that. Barbarian cultures were generally weaker than the civilizations they fought against, demonstrations of power wouldn't mean anything, the only thing you could pull here is maybe some religious "Miracle!" Bullshit. But thats senseless, there are technologies in ancient civilization that would seem like magic to outside peoples, if they were hostile to that civilization usually theyd just try to steal that technology. Because George crafted a bullshit world, you could use the copout of it being useless to steal the dragons because pe Targaryen blood, but at that point my point just shines even stronger. George employs magic for the sake of convenience in a more generic fantasy way than it seems, so as to shirk around having to engage with the real socioeconomic factors of certain relations when he wants to. This sounds contradictory considering what the Meereen arc was. But at the end of the day Daenerys just bails out with her magical dragons anyway and erases any complexity that there could be there, by conveniently disengaging because shes special and can do whatever she wants...except politics lol.
Maybe thats the point, that magic and real actual politics and economics are irreconcilable. George has a poor understanding of medieval economics, and most people in general do, including me. But it doesn't feel right that the point of Dany's story is just a more elaborate way of saying "brute force convenient power doesn't work" but also the very conditions that allow her that power are ridiculous. Its like making a point that stupid people can't do science by writing a story where a stupid person somehow passes all their courses and tests enough to the point where they become a scientist and only then is it realized that they can't do science".

>>25468618
I have no idea what the fuck you're trying to say.

Daenerys didn't "conquer" the dothraki, she got like a dozen simps because she brought back dragons into the world.

>>25468623
btfo that retard

>>25465106
this hit me hard. I mostly read scifi and fantasy these days. what litfic these days I should check? any booktube channels to track etc.

>>25464923
the Romanian translation of the books has surprisingly good prose, perhaps some of the best out there
ironically much better than the original English, I am reading it right now and I am kind of surprised at George's stunted language

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Call me old fashion or for having shit taste but I really dislike the Others being mutated First Men, as the show depicted, which clearly came from George. I wished they were a separate species, ice elves essentially. I like the idea of the world becoming more high fantasy as the series unfolds, it makes the culture shock all the more impactful imo.

>>25468681
Based Romanian bro. I read the translation first too. I would say it's more immersive while the original English is more...tv show like? Which makes sense given his background of script writing and why the text reads so quick without being confusing. I don't consider it BAD but it's quite different than what I expected. Especially the vulgarity being more pronounced.

>>25468993
>mutated first men
I don’t think they were first men, they look like Valyrians, who are just fire elves, but frozen. Geotd diaspora arrived in Westeros and ruined the pact of the cotf leading to them being frozen and weaponized so they kinda are ice elves

>>25468993
>Call me old fashion or for having shit taste but I really dislike the Others being mutated First Men

George called them completely lacking a culture, so if they’re first men, then they are mocking human culture, I think. This would make sense.

If they weren’t men originally, then I still think they’re mocking human culture to a degree. “Humans” made to fight humans, especially if made by the children of the forest.

The Wall was the third attempt at The Hammer of the Waters. The Wall was made to keep humans out.

>they have no culture they’re just dumb ice monsters with swords
George is racist. He hates the Others. Likes the gay dragon people too much he does.

>>25469451
>The Wall was made to keep humans out.
Then why are there gates built in the wall that allow humans to pass but not undead?

>>25469481
BECAUSE THERE WERE HUMAN LOVING TRAITORS AMONGST THE CHILDREN JUST LIKE IN THE NO GOOD NECK

What's the most stable part of Westeros? Where could an estate be that hasn't really been involved with or bothered by historical events or politics in 300 years? Everywhere but the north part of the bay of crabs seems to be pretty screwed. Maybe some stormland mountains or inner dorne where everyone is dead.

>>25469693
Nothing probably ever happens in the inland fingers

I'm scared to read the series. I'm scared that it wont be as good as the echochamber circlejerk, fan theory, grrm worshippers and haters (a hate that can only come from somebody obsessed enough to have once loved the hated thing) make it seem.
I understand you don't care as you are those very people. But I must express myself, for I am human.

>>25469793
>>25467551

>>25469793
Just watch the show

>>25469811
Already did. Didn't like it. Wasn't impressed.

>>25469807
So, not worth the read? Got any recommendations that are as good as the first 3 books?

>>25469793
just read it bro

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You're a Dreamer. He's a Dreamer. She's a Dreamer. Everybody is a fucking Dreamer.

>>25469843
got that bum

>>25470020
Wouldn't you like to be a dreamer too?

>>25469835
>Got any recommendations that are as good as the first 3 books?
NTA but First Law, nobody will disagree lots of old ASOIAF fans read it during the waits for Dance of Dragons and Winds

>>25469835
The first tower lord book wasn't bad it's a little simple. The lies of locke lamora too.

>>25469835
To build on others' replies, Crown of Stars is really the closest I've read to the political and character complexity of ASOIAF. The only problem is that the series is bloated and weaker for it towards the end.

I want Dany to win purely so that Strong Belwas can be Lord Commander of her Queens Guard after Selmy dies and for him to start a huge scandal after he takes a fat ugly shit after killing a noble in a duel.

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GRRM says his ending would be bittersweet but it just sounds bitter.

>>25470248
Strong Belwas is a pit fighter, he's great against other fighters from Essos, but he'd get raped by any knight in full plate.

>>25470401
Judging by GURM's other three novels, "bittersweetness" is a rather broad spectrum for him. All 3 are bittersweet, but not to the same degree.

>The Dying of the Light: The MC accepts that his ex-gf no longer loves him and prepares to engage in a hopeless battle so that she and her Chad husband can escape. Pretty fucking grim.

>Fevre Dream: The MC's dream of owning a successful steamship company never comes true, and he dies of old age in obscurity. However, he has managed to kill the evil vampire and save the "good" vampire community. For them, he will always be remembered as a hero. Truly bittersweet.

>The Armageddon Rag: Le ebin hippy revolution against The Man will never happen, but the MC is happy, successful and chilling with his friends. Pretty fucking sweet.

>>25470422
But would he rape any westerosi knight not wearing their armour. Trail by combat but armourless

>>25470465
He'd have the advantage armourless, especially if they weren't using shields. And most knights would underestimate him for a variety of reasons.

>>25470164
>The lies of locke lamora too.
Too as in Locke Lamora is a bit simple too, or just that its a good recommendation? I looked some stuff up and people seem to think the subsequent books after 1 fall off.

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Shrike theory anon here. I want to make a 2.0 version fixing a mistake in my theory I'm aware of and adding the Ironborn/hightower connection and the battle isle being the last stand of the K'dath deep ones.
Before I read the worldbook and do all ithe research it would be cool if other anons posted their own take/ ideas about the lizardmen building the bottom layer of what will be the hightower, or just Shrike theory in general they think I've missed I'll add it to the word doc.

>>25467076
It won’t.

this thread is boring shit

My character portrayal preferences for book vs show

Preferred book:
>Arya
>Sansa
>Daenerys
>Theon
>Melisandre
>Ramsay
>Shae
>Osha
>Varys
>Stannis
>Renly

Preferred show:
>Ned
>Robb
>Asha/Yara
>Jon
>Tyrion
>Joffrey
>Sandor
>Sweetrobin
>Bronn
>Jorah

No strong preference (portrayals may or may not be very different, but I like/dislike them equally):
>Catelyn
>Bran
>Davos
>Robert
>Littlefinger
>Brienne
>Sam
>Jaime
>Cersei
>Roose
>Tywin
>Lysa

For later seasons take with a grain of salt of course.

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>>25471203
The Bolton casting bothers me the most. Roose actor has a nice voice, but it's the total opposite of the actual character. Cillian Murphy would have been an excellent Roose.

And fucking Ramsay. He's short, skinny, good looking, even has a fucking girlfriend. Should have cast Corpsegrinder.

Why did Aegon spare Dorne?

>The attempted conquest of Dorne was called to an end in 13 AC, after a visit from Princess Deria Martell, the daughter of Nymor Martell, the ruling Prince of Dorne. Deria brought the skull of Meraxes and a letter with her, which was given to Aegon. After reading the letter, Aegon flew on Balerion to Dragonstone. He returned the next day, and agreed to a peace between Dorne and the Seven Kingdoms

They killed his queen, the one he actually liked, and sent him a letter and hes just like
>we're cool

It doesnt make sense.

>>25471260
It’s implied the ullers have rhaenys in a dungeon and will make her hurt real bad if Aegon continues his war

>>25471203
>>Sweetrobin
meant to put preferred book, whoops

>>25471326
He shouldve burnt those dornish fucks to ash

Garakh Squint eye caught the first case of greyscale when he killed the last jhogwin and got infected with its blood

>>25471203
I like Kit as a dude but he was a horrible Jon, dunno how you prefer show Jon.

>>25470649
Idk if this has been brought up before but “Kadat” in Dothraki means “to capture, wrangle or corral”, more evidence Kadath was a place where captives and slaves were brought for sacrifice

>>25471371
Idk man they kinda had it coming
On some GI go home shit

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>>25471464
Also the word for dagger in dothraki derives from the word for thorn, which ties in nicely with the thorns of ygg being the soul drinking weapons of the proto ironborn

>>25469693
>>25469693
Northwest inland Reach, between Ocean Road and the Mander seems mostly safe and prosperous since the Conquest. Goldengrove, Red Lake, Coldmoat and the Standfast are there.
>>25471326
>>25471260
Methinks she had a child by Aegon and the Dornish took the babe hostage

>been rereading the series
>get to A Dance
>tfw I'll finish it and then be forced to once again acknowledge that GRRM still has not finished Winds

Its the worst part of a reread desu

>>25470401
Sansas ending will be becoming one of Jons wives

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>>25471606
>child by Aegon

What is Martin's best story outside of ASOIAF?

>>25469835
Whatever you do, stay away from The Expanse recommendations.

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>>25471405
This tweet is still accurate.

>>25471848
The Ice Dragon

>>25470155
First Law dialogue can be MCU tier man what

>>25464923
> The more she drank the more she shat
what do you think

>>25471405
Hardhome made me like him. That shit was epic.

>>25470649
What was the mistake?

>>25467536
the faith of the seven is not even a fraction as powerful and influential as the church used to be
scholars bent the knee to the church regardless of their own personal faith because they had no choice

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>>25471464
>>25471544
That is very interesting anon, I will def add that. Where do you find the mihe/mihesof translation? Might have to delve into that to see if there's more
>>25472169
In an elden ring comparsion part I wrote that we fight lichdragon Fortissax within Godwyns mind. We don't, we fight fortissax within Fia's mind, and Fia is maybe fortissax herself just in human form since dragons can take human form in elden ring.

>>25472297
https://dl.icdst.org/pdfs/files2/3b86b110cf0744a64cb79d0e3ee76308.pdf

How do you explain the relative stasis of the world between Dance of the Dragons and GoT? 170 years of fuck all happening and the smallfolk still living in the same crappy conditions

>>25470447
The Dying of the Light ending isn't as hopeless as you imply, duels on Worlorn are often not fatal.

>>25472355
The Blackfyre Rebellions happened THOUGH

>>25471765
Imo, faithful Rhaenys and Visenya are more compelling than the slut and the witch. I like Aenys vs Maegor being a conflict between the brothers. I like to think that she was preggers with Aegon's child and that what was in that letter. The Dragon married both of his sisters, he was family man for sure
>>25472148
Part of the reason this sentence is memed so much is its amazing flow. The other two larger parts are shit and the fact it is basically the end of the series

>>25472360
Dirk is still a cuckhold, though.

>>25472355
The smallfolk have been living under the same conditions for thousands of years, 170 years is nothing. And at least most of them don't have to deal with the Lord's Right to the First Night anymore (although oddly, we never get any examples of an Andal engaging in it, just First Men and Valyrians).

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So uh what actually happended to her in Old Valyria? Did she get like firewyrmed face hugged?

>>25472657
She was there for a year. She had to survive on whatever was available. As Valyria is a wasteland, she had to drink contaminated water (probably containing parasitic eggs). She might have also been attacked by a firewyrm who laid eggs inside her - she was carrying worms with human hands and faces. The fact that her body was compatible with a firewyrm and she could hold these super hot creatures inside her tells us Valyrians are not ordinary humans and they themselves have some dragon/firewyrm genes.

What bothers me about places like Valyria, and Shadowlands. We are told there's all manner of beasts and demons there. But none of them leave their borders to expand their territory. The Others is understandable, they need arctic conditions, but not so much the rest.

>>25472794
>She was there for a year.
This is what confuses me. After the Doom a dragonlord led a massive army to reclaim the capital and none returned. Sure maybe magical fallout killed them all at once, but centuries later Tyrions uncle led a bunch of sailors in and none of them came back.
How did a little girl and her big fuck off dragon survive for a year when armies of grown men have never come back? Is it really some bullshit magic you need that Euron figured out when he went there.
Like if a girl can survive 1 year before dying horrfically to parasites then I think several armies of grown men could have a single survivor get out.

>>25472845
By fantasy standards it's probably magic wards. Targaryens having Valyrian blood renders them immune or makes them endure wild magic/radiation more than the average person. Euron probably countered it with his rune inscribed armor.

>>25472657
The maesters got her. It's there for those with eyes to see.

>>25472864
>Euron probably countered it with his rune inscribed armor.
The armour he found in Valyria?

>>25465106
Gene Wolfe and Iain M Banks want a word with you
E. R. Eddison, too. Oh, wait, Mervyn Peake just showed up.
boy, they don't look happy at all, good luck anon

>>25472326
>>25472297
here are some of the findings I’ve found while studying the Dothraki language, if you haven’t seen my older posts

Azor Ahai:
Az(blade) Zhor (Heart) Ahesh (Snow)
True name: Bladeheart Snow

Nissa Nissa:
Nisshi(shadow) Nhizo(Raven)
True name: Shadowraven

>>25472839
>The Others is understandable, they need arctic conditions, but not so much the rest.
Maybe Asshai demons die in direct sunlight and the Valyrian mutants need magical radiation to survive

>>25472959
That's a bit of a conflict. It's clear that Euron is up to his balls in sorcery, which gave him the ability to survive the ruins that most others could not.

>>25473103
>Bladeheart Snow
>Shadowraven
These sound like self-insert fanfiction, lol. I wonder if that's intentional.

>>25472355
>>25472595
As speculated in a previous thread, it seems there are fell magical powers keeping the world in stasis for whatever reason.

>prima noctis
This wasn't a real thing historically, and is another example of the influence of pop culture on ASoIaF.

what’s buried under harrenhal

George crashing out at hotd because they wouldn't murder a baby on screen is pretty funny

>>25473026
Purple prose is not GOOD prose

give me ONE good reason why septa lemore cannot be serra blackfyre

>>25474818
Because George loves his red herrings, literal and figurative.

>>25474787
Why would they pearl clutch over that
Its just a late abortion, not even murder

>>25474335
A living head of some sort

>>25474818
Lemore doesn't have purple eyes and is too old, Ashara would be in her mid 30s

now that the dust has settled
why did fraud of the morning try to prevent Ned seeeing his dying sister by putting his life on the line? is he fucking retarded?

>>25474787
Who?

>>25474193
>These sound like self-insert fanfiction, lol. I wonder if that's intentional.
Fits in perfectly with the likes of bloodraven bittersteel and blackfyre

>>25473103
Why would these be dothraki translations at all?

Azor Ahai was not Dothraki, neither was Nissa Nissa. They were from Asshai.

Further, Azor Ahai wasnt even his name, thats just what the R'hllor followers call him.

>>25474861
He was protecting the king of Westeros blud

>>25474971
Huzor Amai was a historical figure in the Dothraki sea during the dawn age, to me this links azor ahai to that area; it’s not a coincidence their names sound so similar. nissa nissa was probably from the shadow though, azor ahais Melisandre

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>>25472959
>>Euron probably countered it with his rune inscribed armor.
>The armour he found in Valyria?

Euron acquired his Valyrian armor _prior_ to visiting Valyria, the armor acting as a kinda magical hazmat suit that allowed him to go exploring.

>>25468630
This anon >>25468623 is right. You're the one who sounds retarded.
Since you keep going on about realism and blah blah....
Which one of these two is more realistic? One is fiction, another is real history.
1) People(witnesses) submit to someone emerging from a roar of flames unscathed with three magic nukes only heard of in legend.
OR
2) A group of chariot riders convinced a whole population that cows are holy creatures and cow shit bears magical properties. 3000 yrs, the population still worship the cows.

We all know you'd choose option "1" which is fiction. So stfu you stupid pseudo-intellect.

>>25475066
You're retarded and not saying anything.

>>25475033
Thats weak, bro. Weak and thin. Wishful thinking I call it.

Does anyone have a write up or more info on the Dothraki and why they're ahistorical & wouldn't function in the setting of ASOIAF? I don't know enough about steppe nomads to see the problems with them you guys keep referencing.

>>25475088
Which problems are people referencing?

>>25474971
>>25475033
he started out in western Essos as a fell warrior, a rider of the apocalypse, and swept through everything to his east like a fire until he came to the eastern coast past the grey waste and Asshai and then crossed the sea to Westeros. That’s why one of his names is “Shadowchaser”, like the Sunchaser that crossed the sunset sea westward and found its way to Asshai, Shadowchaser implies the opposite, he came to Westeros from east essos. Just like what was the original plan for Daenerys, she was supposed go to Asshai with her Dothraki and then cross the sunset sea to invade Westeros. That’s why the legend is so prevalent in Asshai, it was his last stop before sailing west and then soon after the sun came back (because of the last hero, whoever that was)

>>25475087
I think you’re just attached to your head anon and anything that challenges it makes you tense up, but I get that it’s fine

>>25475103
Meant to say that people refer vaguely to problems with them instead of referencing them concretely so I don't know.

>>25475009
against who? His uncle? What did he think Eddard would do, kill his nephew?

>>25475088
>why they're ahistorical & wouldn't function
Raider cultures IRL exist either when the land is infertile (vikings), or they're too retarded to plant and grow a civilisation (feather indians). Most of the time they are actually the dregs of a powerful empire (Barbary corsairs were the peripheral scum of the fairly powerful Ottoman empire). And even then they do not eschew agriculture entirely. Hardy grains and legumes feature even in their inferior environments
The Mongols in reality only began growing in power when they absorbed civilisations that planted barley, millet and wheat. That is, they only became so successful when they ABANDONED their nomadic culture. Their success came from leveraging the mega-growth that comes from national development.
The Dothraki fit none of these descriptions.

>in the setting of ASOIAF
Anything can happen, it's fiction

>>25475123
Retard

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>Littlefinger is supposed to be,on the surface, a non-threatening average nerd who would at worst, cheat at a card game
>all artwork depicts him as le scheming grinning CIA man with funny soulpatch
I hate this.

>>25475125
Moron

>>25475088
first of all, the economy. steppe nomads were not mindless savages, they wrote poetry, inscribed runes, were extremely proficient metalworkers and most importantly, THEY WERE FUCKING HERDERS. not mindless savages
The dothraki, AFAIK, don't herd cattle or sheep and even if they do they delegate it to slaves. Or they just steal em.
Their weapon of choice. Sure it looks cool and unique, arakh makes no sense for a society based on horsemanship. The main weapon of steppe nomads was the recurve composite bow, not the lance or sword. Its implied in the books that arakh is their main weapon of choice.
Their lack of armor. It speaks for itself, its just fucking dumb.
The status of women in the dothraki society doesn't make sense too. In real life, women in the steppes had a lot of priviliges and were not seen as property or objects but as people because the life on the steppe was very harsh, which required compartmentelization in society. Women were seen as the soul of the household, and more often than not were more influential in internal matters of the house itself than men, whilst men were responsible for the external matters of the household, such as defending it, raiding, grazing etc. Do look it up, its actually a pretty fascinating blend of matriarchy and partriarchy. The dothraki, in contrast, are nothing like that beyond the hags at vaes dothrak and Daenerys.
However it all boils down to economy. Economic parasitism isnt sustainable long term. I could've ended it right there but I wanted to delve deeper into the concept since thats the single biggest mistake of George regarding ASOIAF.

>TLDR; They aren't herding enough livestock

I mean George isn't making a case study on steppe empires but at least he could've done some research. He turned a very interesting concept into just economic parasitism, which is sad because your average moron thinks that steppe empires functioned like that.

>>25475121
Yes? Ned just overthrew the Targaryen dynasty alongside the man who killed Jon's father, and by which dynasty Jon is claimed to be king in the first place. Even assuming rumors of Ned's honor, Arthur and the rest of the Kingsguard have no idea wtf Ned is going to do when he's confronted with the biggest threat to his sworn brother's reign.

>>25475159
What is the Dothraki's tax policy

>>25475164
unironically this. I wouldnt even care if he didnt jab Tolkien regarding Aragorn's tax policy. But how do the dothraki maintain cohesion, george?

>>25475163
her own sister was screaming for him. they died trying to keep him away from seeing his dying sister. I mean I get where you are coming from, and the children of Rheagar was killed by this point yes, but his own sister was crying for him and his honour was most likely known by this point. Surely they could've settled this shit diplomatically?

>>25474861
Robert wanted all Targs dead. No exceptions. Meaning Jon was in danger and Ned wasn't just gonna allow his sisters son to he murdered.

>>25475183
Most likely Rhaegar had given them an order like
>dont let anyone enter the tower

And being who they were, they followed it unto death

>They were seven, facing three. In the dream as it had been in life. Yet these were no ordinary three.
Eddard X, AGOT vindicates George.

>>25475183
Robert finding out he got cucked would make him lose it. Especially if he's told Lyanna actually went willingly with Rhaegar. If Jon was thought to be a product of rape Robert would definitely have him killed.

>>25475183
Could they? What, at that point could be settled diplomatically? Jon is their rightful king, at BEST Ned was still going to take Jon and raise him as his bastard to not betray Robert's new claim to the throne, which three Kingsguard loyal to the Targaryen dynasty would never accept. That's putting aside the fact that Rhaegar's last order to them was almost certainly "don't let the rebels get to my child."

>>25475201
yeah now that i think about it you are right. But imagine eddard getting slain and lyanna living lmao, I wonder what they would've done

Gerold Hightower was there and that psychotic fuck would have marched off a cliff if so ordered

>>25475210
Same thing as what Willem Darry did with Viserys and Dany, get Jon and Lyanna to Essos and figure it out from there.

>>25475193
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nqv-UtJQk5Q&list=LL&index=72
>WOE TO THE USURPER IF WE HAD BEEN
>>25475217
>Ser Willem Darry is fled to Dragonstone with your queen and prince Viserys
>Ser Willem is a good man and true
>BUT NOT OF THE KINGSGUARD, SER GEROLD POINTED OUT. The Kingsguard DOES NOT FLEE
that explains it. They wouldn't flee, I wonder what was their plan.

>>25475231
I didn't take that sentence to mean that the Kingsguard would just stand there and die, but that they weren't going to just pack up and leave when Jon had just been born and Lyanna needed protecting. Remember, from Rhaella and Darry's perspective (as well as Ned's at the time) Viserys was king, but the Kingsguard know the truth and that's probably what they're referring to. If they successfully killed Ned and Lyanna somehow recovered, they'd almost certainly take her orders into account considering she's the queen mother of the new king.

What kind of mental gymnastics did the realm have to do to let Tywin keep Jaime on the kingsguard, let alone avoiding execution or the Black?

>>25474861
Remember the absolute autistic obsession with vows in that world. Jaime is regarded as the Kingslayer, even though killing Aerys was the most logical decision, this without getting into the whole Lannister rep. He is judged in the wrong simply for breaking his vow by slaying his deranged mass murdering king.

>>25475174
Nooo stop being critical because you actually want more complex considered stories that actually do the hard part of explaining how a society maintains yourself! Youre a retard if you think Daenyrs taking hold of a significant enough portion of a cultures army through contrivance is bad, because Im an ignorant retard like every generic modern retard who thinks hes intelligent because he can dish old the sticky note that "Worshipping cows is stupid and unrealistic!" because Im one of those subhuman retards that never does the work to understand historical societies, and projects their base intuitions onto the past!"

A lot of people in this thread should actually be killed, cut at the throat. Losers.

>>25475407
>you served him well, when serving was safe
I feel like there's more to it than just that.

>>25475407
Nobody knows about the wildfire plot except Jaime, he killed literally everyone involved.

>>25475428
I always wondered if Mel or other powerful flameworkers/fire wights could feel the wildfyre in the walls.

I need to drop by /tg/ again. Some guy used an incomplete rpg to build out an entire magic system for the world based on the wiki. It's the most autistic thing I've ever seen. Beautiful.

>>25475436
Thoros definitely didnt, he spent years partying there with Robert.

Melisandre maybe, she seems much more powerful than Thoros, rez spell aside.

>>25475419
Could be applied to the entire Kingsguard. Barristan is regarded as a true knight, even though he served and fought for a horrible individual.

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Give it to me straight, bros... are we at least going to get TWOW from George's own living hands?

Just be honest with me.

>>25475442
Thoros wasn't even really a sorcerer before the comet, was he? He went through the steps of empty ritual but couldn't make them work - until one day the rising magic was sufficient for his devotions to work.

>>25475459
Right, but thats true of all others as well

>>25475457
Have faith anon
A true knight always finishes a story

Not only is Winds going to come out but it'll be the best book since the first one

>>25475468
Mel was definitely one beforehand, and there was that other one who managed to heal himself a bit and had embers in the wounds from it. And there's definitely an organised tradition that seems to function in the temple.

I think sufficient skill and will lets you do it beyond the ambient magic level. Belief is probably part of it as fuel too.

>>25475470
I'm reminded of the guy who wrote mother of learning. A czechslovakian accountant who taught himself English through naruto fanfiction and published a single chapter a month for like 9 years until it was done. George should read more naruto fanfic.

Why can every god work miracles except the Seven?

>>25475470
Thanks, anon. I love all of his books. In fact, I did a "Boiled Leather" reading of AFFC+ADWD a couple of years back and absolutely loved it. I think the story is getting better with every passing entry.

Gods be with you, friend.

>>25475475
I wonder if there's any good Essos-based fanfic out there. Maybe something about Asshai or Old Valyria or even the arrival of the First Men or something.

>>25475506
>Essos
Sorry, meant "Planetos" (i.e., the known world).

>>25475386
It isn't a democracy, negroid. Tywin gave King's Landing and dead Targ children to Robert so he gained plenty of favors back.

>>25475386
to the victor go the spoils
Aerys was called The Mad King
no one except for hardcore loyalists care that Jaime permaheemed him. most of them secretly think it was the right thing to do even though they know it puts Jaime in an awful, irreconcilable position because of his oath

>>25475444
Point is, as far as Eddard and company are concerned, Jamie betrayed his king the moment he thought his king was about to lose.

What the FUCK happened at Summerhall

>>25475653
more importantly, when did Egg become so mentally deranged that he thought it would be a good idea to gulp down the green stuff
the show makes him seem very clever and level-headed so what broke his brain

>>25475475
That's kind of inspiring.

>>25475660
It seems like it was a mix of the insubordination he was getting from the various nobles of Westeros and the standard Targ dragon dreams.

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>>25475667
mans went soft...

>>25475660
Waking dragons from eggs is not crazy, Targs did it for years and Dany obviously succeeded. It seems at some point he was getting so much pushback from nobles about his reforms that he figured only dragons could properly enforce them, a la Alysanne.

>>25475653
Egg turned himself into a dragon and dunk killed him

>>25475675
yeah but didn't he drink the wildfire or am I confusing him with Aerion Brightflame?
I guess if it was just a matter of the wildfire spreading rapidly, then how come no one managed to escape? did Egg lock everyone inside? the hell

>>25475680
Egg didn't drink wildfire (that we know of). Aerion was the one who did that.

>>25475680
Aerion was the one that drank the green koolaid, Egg just tried to hatch dragon eggs and the fire ended up burning down Summerhall. The actual details of what happened have never been revealed.

>>25475682
>>25475684
alright so Egg wasn't totally mentally gone, he might've just gotten a little too excited. but still, we must deduce that he locked everyone inside considering the whole place burned down and no one escaped right? so then I wonder what led to that condition

>>25475688
Some people escaped, Rhaella for instance got out and birthed Rhaegar right outside the burning building. There's some theories that Egg tried to sacrifice unborn Rhaegar to hatch the eggs and Duncan stopped him which caused the fire, but it's just a theory. For all we know Egg wasn't full on gone, just tried to hatch the eggs and it failed.

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Summerhall is Baratheon propaganda meant to scare people off from trying to wake the dragons. it's still standing but I guess people aren't allowed to get too close to inspect it

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>>25475692
thank you for the correction. that's crazy. never realized people survived, much less that Rhaegar was born amidst that tragedy
now I'm more curious than ever to know what happened

>>25475696
There's long been speculation that GRRM is going to reveal more about it in the main series or Dunk and Egg but he's taking his time with everything so who knows. There's a very potent parallel in Rhaegar and Jon being born atop so much tragedy.

>>25475703
true. Danaerys as well (Stormborn and all)
hopefully Tree God Bran reveals all the mysteries
do you subscribe to the theory that Bran is ultimately going to become The Great Other? I just wonder, if so, what his reasoning would be to wipe out mankind

What the FUCK did Bran see in the Heart of Winter?

Is it true that a lot of readers get filtered by Bran and Brienne chapters?

>>25475712
goatse

>>25475692
>>25475653
given the casualties and the Aerion Brightflame hint and the Daenerys-proven method of waking dragons, it's obvious that Egg figured it out: to bring the dragons back, the Targs needed to take their eggs and burn. Aerion Brightflame was nearly there, he didn't realise that you need Targ + fire + (viable?) eggs

Aegon probably thought to maximise the spell potency he needed every drop of Targ blood so he got everyone together in Summerhall, got a couple eggs, then probably announced "guys I figured it out all we need to do is burn together with the eggs we won't die and we'll hatch em" and Dunk and everyone else predictably went nuts at the crazy plan

Daenerys was trying to anhero and found the solution by accident

>>25475718
lol

>>25475717
bran chapters are ok/mid. there's better POVs there's worse POVs. brienne shit is boring.

>>25475723
>Daenerys was trying to anhero
No she wasn't

>...the blood of the dragon gathered in one... ...seven eggs, to honor the seven gods, though the king's own septon had warned... ...pyromancers... ...wild fire... ...flames grew out of control...towering...burned so hot that... ...died, but for the valor of the Lord Comman...

Most intriguing line here is the septon warning imo. What if the faith didn't appreciate the homage and sabotaged everything?

>>25475707
I don't subscribe to any of the evil Three-Eyed Crow/Bloodraven/Bran theories, nah. I don't think there's going to be one big bad guy on the Other side in general, I think it's going to be more complicated.

>>25475666
It's genuinely a good read if you like that sort of thing, the worst I can say is that characters sometimes lack their own individual voices. And I think that's because he's a czech. Time loop progression fantasy, not quite the first in this brave new world of ours, but one of them.

>>25475506
Scream Against The Storm is a now complete sorcerer exile stannis that, except for the first chapter (maybe two?) and a handful of tiny cutaways takes place entirely in Essos. He drowned Renly at the Siege of Storm's End.

>>25475717
Asha and Catelyn chapters are the worst

>>25475723
Or Egg tried to do it without sacrifices
>Only death can pay for life
Dany sacrificed a life for each dragon. Rhaego, Drogo, and Mirri.

If Egg tried to do it sans third party sacrifices, then presumably the ritual would then consume them.

>>25475786
Why did Daenerys' sacrifices work since Drogo and Rhaego were already dead?

>>25475791
Perhaps because their lives were magically bound by Mirri's shadow dance. That was by far the most magically intense moment in the books prior to the dragon's actual birth and the ensuing strengthening of magic.

>>25475796
Meaning what? Were their souls still stuck to their bodies or did the ritual alter their blood in some way?

>>25475717
The problem with Brienne is that she's looking for Arya and Sansa while we know exactly where they are, so the well is poisoned from the start because you know she's looking in the wrong places. As her plot goes on it gets better, but you really get biased against seeing her name as a chapter title.

Bran chapters are mostly good I think they just get a bad shake because some of the wolf dreams are hard/annoying to read

I like Brienne because I like Jaime

>>25475854
Meaning I dont think its coincidence that the dragons hatched after that event, meaning that Dany's pyre wasnt the sole component of the ritual.

>>25475864
>The problem with Brienne is that she's looking for Arya and Sansa while we know exactly where they are, so the well is poisoned from the start because you know she's looking in the wrong places.
Yup this is exactly it. I hate when writers do this. Waste of so much time just waiting for characters to catchup on information the reader already knows, just to see what they do. Last King of Osten Ard has this problem big time.

>>25475864
>>25475879
Right and while that is her stated purpose, she actually gives us more story we wouldnt get otherwise. Lady Stoneheart, for example. Although Brienne was pursuing Sansa and we already knew she was in the Eyrie, we didnt know her mother had been resurrected as a noose-loving zombie.

Its a case of journey, not destination. We dont need to care about her finding the girls so we can give all attention to the lands she explores and people she meets.

>>25475878
So the Targs that did manage to hatch dragons in the past were shadowbinders as well?

>>25475881
>we didnt know her mother had been resurrected as a noose-loving zombie.
we did actually, that was revealed in the 3rd book

>>25475900
Obviously not the point
Substitute follow ups on Beric, Lem, or the Hound if the example bothers

>>25475902
Brienne had 8 chapters, only one chapter gave information about the chars you mentioned.

This is like talking to a child.

Briennes whispers chapter is the in the top 5 chapters of the series

Why did fatman write Cersei to be so absurdly petty and evil if he's all about muh moral grayness

>>25475962
Cersei isn't even top 5 most evil characters.

>>25475970
1. Euron
2. Ramsey
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?

>>25475991
3. The Mountain
4. Craster
5. Half the characters in Essos

>>25475970
She ate Robert’s cum, that’s pretty fucked up of her

>>25475997
Craster is a godly man.

>>25475991
>>25475997
how quickly they forget about the Warlocks, the Ghiscari & Meereenese slavers, Roose, Walder, Joffrey, etc....
this isn't even counting the historical baddies

I love Cersei chapters
She is just so confident in her idiocy

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>>25476080

Macumber is real

>>25475741
Sounds like the septon knew what he was talking about and egg should have listened

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>STONE HEAD , the northernmost island in the chain, is plainly the work of men; the north face of this sea-girt rock has been carved in the stern likeness of some forgotten god, glowering out across the sea. His is the last visage that Summer Islanders see as they sail north to Westeros.

>>25476258
Degenerate islands of loose slutty negros

Should blow them up with the hammer of the waters

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Im reading for the first time

Waymar my role model in life......

>>25476291
>waymar royce: dark hair, grey eyes, described as slender and graceful, one of only 2 characters to wear moleskin gloves

>jon snow: dark hair, grey eyes, described as slender and graceful, one of only 2 characters to wear moleskin gloves

Probably just a coincidence haha...

>>25475410
Room temp IQ on display

>>25476326
No need to announce you're displaying it. We can already see.

>>25475410
what the fuck are you talking about

>>25475717
Brienne chapters are great because we get introduced to the noblest and most honest man in the seven kingdoms, Nimble Dick Crabb

>>25475730
cope

>>25475741
I'd forgotten this passage
>grew out of control
implies that they were being controlled
though of course the source might be unreliable
>What if the faith didn't appreciate the homage and sabotaged
a definite possibility given the Faith/Targ conflicts

>>25475786
>Dany sacrificed a life for each dragon
also probable
"there is power in king's blood"

>>25475881
this
the only reason to read Brienne chapters is to see the world, travel the riverlands, meet new people, and kill them
we were missing the grassroots smallfolk perspective on everything and the Brienne chapters give us that

>>25475864
IDGAF about the lands beyond the wall however so the Bran chapters miss fire with me
I want to fix Meera Reed of course

>>25475410
It's a fucking fantasy series. She used fucking magic. What the fuck is so contrived about it?

>>25475741
>What if the faith didn't appreciate the homage and sabotaged everything?
Having anyone sabotage Summerhall feels like it would ruin the whole point. It could never have worked, no good has ever come from these dreams of dragons. And the Seven probably were the wrong gods to call on for hatching dragon eggs.

>>25475881
>Lady Stoneheart
Lady Stoneheart is SHIT

>>25475962
>if he's all about muh moral grayness
He isn't.

What are the pros and cons of marrying Desmera Redwyne?

>>25476683
Pro: Your good-father will provide you with wine, she has freckles, if you're into that
Con: Your children might be gingers

>>25476683
Nice dowry and freckles, there are only pros. Although her brothers are considered unattractive, so she might be so as well.

>>25476653
agreed

>>25474799
(You)

How are people still coping about dany not going mad after the play confirmed the show was canon

>>25476653
Shes a big improvement on Catelyn though
And lynching Freys is a good thing

>>25476035
Or the Brave Companions, including Qyburn. Gregor's men are also literal orcs, not an ounce of humanity in them.

>>25476258
In my head Summer Islanders speak with a Nigerian accent.

>enjoying Tyrion chapters
>penny shows up

Fuck

>
>Why? You ask that? You, who killed your mother to come into the world? You are an ill-made, spiteful little creature full of envy, lust, and low cunning. Men's laws give you the right to bear my name and display my colors since I cannot prove that you are not mine. And to teach me humility, the gods have condemned me to watch you waddle about wearing that proud lion that was my father's sigil and his father's before him. But neither gods nor men will ever compel me to let you turn Casterly Rock into your whorehouse.
Who was in the wrong here?

>>25477047
Tywin was. It was a rare case of him choosing the easiest, worst path. He should have had him killed at birth or he should have supported him fully. Instead he kept Tyrion around just to shit on him for his entire life, which resulted in his own death.

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>>25475779
Catelyn chapters are fine; everyone seethes at her bad decisions but they’re mostly believable to the information she had at hand. It’s only really arresting Tyrion despite knowing very well Tywin’s ruthlessness that was genuinely retarded. She’s a well written character overall, with sympathetic motivations to try save her children but tragically miscalculating occasionally with Tyrion and Jamie. She’s unable to reign in Robb because he fears looking weak by listening to his mother’s prudent counsel with the Freys and Theon. Her ASoaS chapters do drag a bit it when she’s locked up at Riverrun but have an excellent pay off with the red wedding.

Asha is definitely the weakest of the minor Greyjoy PoVs in AFFC and ADWD. Victarion’s funny pirate adventures are a good change of pace in the midpoint of the latter book which gets lost with Quentyn and Tyrion’s meandering misery travelogue through Essos. Aeron has two genuinely great chapters with Kingsmoot and the Forsaken sample chapter which was cut from ADWD. I liked Asha’s introduction in Theon chapters but as her own PoV she’s not very well developed. She’s supposed to be a genuinely capable captain who wins respect from hardened reavers but her only named crew are just simps and boyfriends. Introducing Roderick the reader and showing the conflict between the old and new way for the ironborn was a good development in AFFC but then has the infamously cringe “cunt became the world” saga. She loses to mountain men in Ghillie suits, weirdly repeating Theon’s own error of delusionally holding a northern castle and becomes substitute Davos PoV to keep an eye on Stannis while he disappears for the rest of the book.

I would rate the Dornish PoVs as easily the worst, the greyjoys at least progress the plot and don’t waste time with red herrings and anticlimaxes. Pic related is the only memorable character. At best TWoW is just going to be Arianne becoming our window to Aegon even though that what’s JonCon is supposed to do.

>>25477047
>You smile like Gerion and fight like Tyg, and there's some of Kevan in you, else you would not wear that cloak... but TYRION is Tywin's son, not you. I said so once to your father's face, and he would not speak to me for half a year. Men are such thundering great fools. Even the sort who come along once in a thousand years.

>>25477136
a balanced view of Catelyn Stark? on /lit? WTF?!
>Her ASoaS chapters do drag a bit
she's a shit POV character, would've much preferred Robb
>everyone seethes at her bad decisions but they’re mostly believable to the information she had at hand
they're mostly seething for the memes anyway
mainly she's a disappointment because she doesn't have the actual smarts to make it. she's Queen Cersei Stark almost

>Asha
more interesting than Cockless

>meandering misery travelogue
lol
for Quentyn, yes
I liked Tyrion's chapters in general

>Aeron
fuck him

>Dornish PoVs as easily the worst, the greyjoys at least progress the plot
the Dornish POVs are quite compact when you consider that they function to introduce a whole new faction and their complexities

the Dornish sneakpeek chapter however looks horrendous

>>25477136
>but they’re mostly believable to the information she had at hand
Why would it be believable that the man known as KINGSLAYER would honor his word and bring back her daughters? She basically gave away their main leverage which lead directly to the red wedding.

>>25477150
>Why would it be believable that the man known as KINGSLAYER would honor his word and bring back her daughters?
this objection would carry a lot more weight if Jaime hadn't sent Brienne out to look for her daughters

>>25477154
But we're talking about "information she had at hand".

>>25477159
>she made a poor judgement because the information she had at hand was bad, even though her judgement turned out to be entirely correct
bruh

>>25477177
>entirely correct
She got herself and her son killed in exchange for Brienne aimlessly frolicking around the Riverlands.

>>25477150
She does it as a hail Mary after Bran and Rickon are seemingly killed, though it does contradict her earlier acknowledgement that the Karstark’s were seething at Robb for not killing Jamie.
>>25477146
>I liked Tyrion's chapters in general
It does really start to drag after the stone men ambush when he gets enslaved briefly and joins one of the gorillion trivial sellsword companies. I actually preferred the show where he at least met Dany (though became her hand too quickly) before she flew off from the fighting pits to shit into the sunset.

>>25477185
if you're going to be like that, all of the ASOIAF characters are dumb and wrong because none of them have won
(and never will)

>>25477189
But not to the same degree. Catelyn is especially retarded.

>>25477188
other anon had it right, every Tyrion POV after the time he meets Mormont and Penny is a sordid bore

>>25477185
Robb did that himself. All for a piece of pussy. Catelyn would have stopped him had she been there.

>>25477199
Tywin would not have given the go-ahead for the red wedding if they still had Jamie as a prisoner.

Catelyn is a horrible human being. She's another side of the same coin that has the likes of Cersei. Impulsive, short sighted, self centered, everyone else outside her blood relation be damned. Kidnapping Tyrion was the worst thing she could have done. I am not defending Tywin, but the blood of all the people who were killed is on her hands as well. She lost me when she first met Maya and right off the bat, starts judging her badly because of her Stone name. Bitch, who the fuck are you to feel so important. If her name was Lannister, people would pair her with or worse than Cersei.

>>25477200
Thats a fair point, actually. Walder Frey might have gone rogue and done it anyway though. If you're willing to get your House and family cursed for all time over some vengeance, I doubt permission from your boss is going to tip those scales.

>>25477223
She lost me when she was mean to Jon

>>25477234
He wouldn't have. One of his main character traits is being a coward, without assurances from the Iron Throne he wouldn't have risked making the north and the rest of the riverlands his open enemy.

>>25477242
I wonder if he regrets it, considering the depths of hostility and disdain everyone now shows the Freys.

That old piece of shit needs a follow up.

>>25477250
Roose certainly does. The fact that he displays the tiniest hint of fear in Winterfell, as everyone is one breath away from killing eachother, says it all.

>robb breaks sacred oath and disrespects Walder Frey
>Walder Frey
NOOOOO YOU HONORLESS BASTARD YOU VIOLATED THE SACRED LAWS STARKS ARE THE MAIN CHARACTER YOU SHOULD ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE USED AND FUCKED ON LIKE A GOOD BOY NPC AAAAAAAAA SAVE ME OLD GODS
walder. Did. Nothing. Wrong.

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Do you think he drinks Robb's blood, because king's blood, and he totally has it stored, along with his skin hung among dead Stark trophies

>>25477326
>the late lord frey wants to talk about sacred oaths

Walder Frey extorted his liege lords at every opportunity. He should not even have had the option of refusing a crossing to a Stark, let alone a Tully, let alone asking a price for it.

Although it was absurd that Robb and his army could not just build a bridge. Thats been a basic army function as long as armies and rivers existed.

>>25477199
>Robb did that himself. All for a piece of pussy.
Robb did that because he saw how his mother treated his bastard brother, and didn't want to potentially put his own child through such a hell. So, really, you can still blame Catelyn if you want

>>25477372
I dont think he got to do much with Robbs corpse, as we know the Freys made sport with it.

I do wonder what happened to Robb's head.

>>25477418
whenever I think about what they did with Robb and Greywind a wave of rage washes over me as if they were real people. Literally, unironically, bravo George.

>>25477380
>He should not even have had the option of refusing a crossing to a Stark, let alone a Tully, let alone asking a price for it
He basically had the obligation to deny them passage, considering that they were marching against the king. Had Walder Frey been a man of honor, he wouldn't have been willing to make a deal at all.

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Arthur Dayne is GAY???

Arthur GAYNE???

THE SWORD OF THE MORNING

>>25472225
>scholars bent the knee to the church regardless of their own personal faith because they had no choice
Um. No. They “bent the knee” because the Church has always held a massive amount of information. The Church had always been a patron of knowledge and the learned, period. The learned tend to meet up and group up.

>>25477500
Joffrey-called-Baratheon was no king

This anon >>25467564 really is on to something

Maesters KNOW that magic is evil, and people like Marwyn simply don’t give one fuck about that fact!

Marwyn even says as much about the nature of prophecy:
> Gorghan of Old Ghis once wrote that a prophecy is like a treacherous woman. She takes your member in her mouth, and you moan with the pleasure of it and think, how sweet, how fine, how good this is... and then her teeth snap shut and your moans turn to screams. That is the nature of prophecy, said Gorghan. Prophecy will bite your prick off every time.

Magic is a real asshole.

>>25467564
>What is behind “the magic” isn’t a force for good. Obviously it’s not. It loves blood and suffering and sacrifice. If the Valyrians could manipulate religion, then surely something could manipulate the dragonlords, or magic itself. Magic is a game of layers, or curtains behind curtains, and it’s just unnerving. You’re submitting to something. What is it? You’ll likely never know.
>be 8th dimension ''machine elf''
>someday some 3D monkey shows up in your realm
>WHOA duuuuude are you like god?
>uhhhhh yeah my name is RHLORsjkgnksjkgniwguhnjm9qtyhiklk.as
>Whoa, Rhlor, ok!
>Why don't you burn people to get visions or something I dunno lol
>Sure thing duuuuude
>lol he fell for it lmao