>started watching seed>coordinators are supposed to superior to naturals>Naturals can somehow make better mobile suits than them>They regularly make retarded tactical blunders and are prone to emotional outbursts>Are too dumb to make the gundam OS work without complaining >As soon as the earth forces get their daggers, they are equally matched and were even getting completely destroyed by the 13th until they activated the EMP>Zaft's best commander who duped their entire military and government is literally a natural >Got rekt by the Arab resistance because they fell for a basic trap>The druggies are stated to be outright superior to them except for mental stability >Fell for Alaska>Built and aquatic suit that implodes from a single stab in water that isn't even that deep>Literally the only reason they were winning was having mobile suits when O.M.N.I only had armoursThey really aren't selling me on them, only the super special ones like Kira and Arthurn.
The Gundam pilots in Seed are just so boring that I can't understand why people like this show.
>>22748542The original idea was that Coordinators were much better pilots. They had basic mobile suits, but were so much better at piloting. A single coordinator pilot in a Ginn is equal around 6 to 12 naturals pilots. To counter this, the Earth Alliance invested in technology. They couldn't match the Coordinators in biology and talent. But they could invest tons of money and resources into making things like Phase Shift armor, super battleships like the Archangel, new weapons like beam weapons, beam sabers, cloaking technology, etc. All these new technologies probably cost trillions to create, and were meant to even the playing field. Also the EA used raw numbers to counter ZAFT. Every EA country had forced drafts and made people enter the military.So the whole idea was superior humans VS weaker humans with better technology. Then Fukuda fell in love with ZAFT and gave ZAFT all that new technology as well. He ruined the basic idea of the story and made ZAFT the heroes and gave them everything. EA became useless.
>>22748542ORB was helping the EA with their tech, that's the only reason they leapfrogged ZAFT for a little while. Heliopolis was literally an ORB territory
OG Seed is honestly pretty even with depicting Coordiantors and Naturals as equal and pushing the message that genes don’t dictate everything about you. Destiny kinda drops the ball though because in that one ZAFT is churning out uber broken suits constantly, the Naturals are all jobbers while the Coordiantors start pulling off insane acts of god. Then the movie just takes it to the point of complete parody
>>22748591The only thing Orb helped out with was building the Archangel.
>>22748578I'm pretty sure coordinators being universally superior was always they point, the show starts with them magically disabling nuclear reactors after all. Even the supplemental materials doubled down on it by saying the extreme minority of coordinators within the EF gave them a fighting chance
>>22748629>pretty sure coordinators being universally superior was always they pointNope. That's not the "point". There's no argument being made. They original setting materials make it clear. Coordinators got nuked. Then they made neutron jammers to stop nukes. Coordinators then got complacent and cocky. Because they relied on their superior genetics and talent to carry them for most of the war, they didn't invent anything else. Then the EA leapfrogs the Coordinators in technology and surpasses them across the board in many categories.Patrick Zala gets upset and orders infiltration missions to steal technology from EA. He also chews out Zaft scientists and Zaft Engineers for getting lazy and complacent. Patrick accuses his Staff of getting lazy. They allowed EA to surpass them in tech.
>>22748591It was a joint venture, and Orb had to steal secrets from the EA to build the Astray prototypes (which then were further downgraded to allow production of the M3's). The Astrays didn't have Phase Shift either, which was the keystone of the entire project.
>>22748591They made the 2nd gen GAT-X series on their own and those were good enough to fight against the Freedom and Justice despite being battery powered. It wasn't until Destiny that the EA became cannon fodder.
>>22748651You have no idea I love these three suits, they are so cool.
The thing that I love about the Earth Alliance is that they always find crazy exotic solutions to limitations and problems.Zaft keeps shredding our troops with bullets? Let's Invent phase shift armorZaft armor is too good on their mobile suits? Let's invent beam rifles. It doesn't matter how shitty our pilots are as long as they hit Zaft pilots ONCE. Beams will destroy a Gunn. Zaft stole our anti-beam shield technology? Invest wibbly wobbly bending beam to hit them from odd angles that they can't block.Zaft pilots too good? Let's create new drugs to make our pilots superior for a limited amount of time time during battle. Who cares if it shortens their lives or has massive side effects. Zaft stole our Gundam designs? Let's make new Gundam designs that are designed to kill our old Gundam designs.Zaft keeps blowing up our battleships? Let's invent a new battleship with armor that can absorb a shit ton of attacks before breaking.Zaft stole our Phase Shift tech? Let's make weapons that will break phase shift (Forbidden's giant scythe and Raider's hammer Mace).Zaft keeps invading our bases and blowing stuff up? Let's invent a crazy self destruct system that will destroy invading Zaft fleets. Who cares if it hurts us too. Zaft troops are more precious.Zaft keeps hitting attacking us with ships from long range? Let's invent beam shields to protect our bases from bombardment.ZAFT is too good at surveillance? Let's invent Mirage colloid stealth so we can infiltrate zaft and steal their stuff and launch surprise attacks on them.The list goes on and on. I love all these solutions. It's like something a cornered animal would come up with. If anything, Director Fukuda kept giving Zaft way too much handicaps to keep them around. Because EA should have annihilated Zaft all things considered. Imagine nuclear missiles with Mirage colloid stealth being launched at Zaft colonies. Or EA ships with beam shields. Or EA ships with phase shift armor.
>>22748678On top of Earth having a much larger population and economic base. ZAFT would have been turbofucked had the writer and director not gotten off to them.
>>22748651>>22748656Best boys, best gendums, best theme song. It was all downhill after they died.
>>22748651>>22748656>>22748678On the note of the Druggies: Phase Shift Armor takes up too much power on battery suits and we can't use nukes to power them because Blue Cosmos is funneling all the NJCs to missiles? Make the reactive armor version of it that only fires off when it hits, and has the added bonus of not making the suit look like grayscale ass when you're low on battery.I don't think ZAFT ever figured that one out, since even when they're not using nuke suits (Impulse and Rising/Immortal as late as GSFreedom) they have the shift down gray.
>>22748618Morgenrote is basically Orb's DARPA. They co-developed the Gundams>>22748647>Orb had to steal secrets from the EA to build the Astray prototypesThey only stole it in the sense that they weren't upfront about their intentions of creating their own MS, even though Orb painted itself as pacifistic. The Astrays weren't even officially sanctioned and caused Cagalli's father to lose his position. Phase Shift is the only thing that was a secret and completed separately right before the Gundams were shipped to Heliopolis.
>>22748715>Morgenrote is basically Orb's DARPA. They co-developed the Gundams They didn't. The setting materials specially say that Orb was shut out of development from the Gundams. They tried to steal the technology several times. It's why Orb didn't have access to phase shift technology until they recovered the Strike Gundam and the wreckage of Aegis and Blitz.
>>22748594>OG Seed is honestly pretty even with depicting Coordiantors and Naturals as equal and pushing the message that genes don’t dictate everything about you.Would it have been more convincing had, say, Kira and Rau's positions been reversed?Let's say Rau was the vatborn Super Coordinator, except they still fucked up the telomeres or something else, maybe they still told him he was a clone of Al Da Flaga to explain their fuckups and/or to sate Flaga's ego when he starts accomplishing shit.Kira's either a regular garden variety Coordinator (not one of the rich elites who could afford the really good shit) or hell, maybe he's not even a Coordinator at all, everyone just thinks he is because his hyper autism means he's super good at shit he focuses on (amazing programmer, becomes a top-tier pilot due to necessity a la Amuro) and terrible at being a normie.Would that even be a better show?
>>22748890The difference between Kira and other Coordinators was marginal at best. Athrun could still kick his ass in h2h combat.
>>22748578I don't know if this is true, but fuck Destiny for dumping the original ZAFT MSs for UC knock-offs and turning the Earth Alliance into complete jobbers (e.g. the fucking Windam, a true mass production Strike, didn't get a on-screen kill until the Freedom movie and was outclassed by even the ZAKU).
>>22748930The rumor is that the original story of Destiny was to have it be a short story of 12 episodes. The beginning behind the Armory One hijack and the ending being the Colony dropped on Earth. Then to end it on a question mark with Kira looking at the sky and seeing the Devastation of the Colony drop.It also explains why the first 12 or so episode are so tight and well written. Then everything after the Colony drop feels so disjointed and rushed. Just the Minerva dicking around on Earth not acoomplishing much, and being attacked by Phantom Pain for no reason.
>>22749080That does explain a lot, that first part of Destiny was actually pretty good, especially the first 6 or so eps.Then it started going downhill in the teens and didn't hit the bottom til the series ended.
>>22749080That would make a lot of sense.
>>22748923>The difference between Kira and other Coordinators was marginal at bestI feel like that was the kicker behind the entire Ultimate Coordinator thing, that it was an irrelevant factor the entire time.He's just the 1 fetus that was raised in an artificial womb instead of his mother's womb which eliminates the influences the mother has over the fetus during pregnancy, meaning that he's able to tap into the full potential of a coordinator whereas the average coordinators are ever so slightly imperfect due to being in their mother's womb during pregnancy. But as far as we see, Kira isn't that much more superior, if anything he just seems like a regular coordinator.If being raised in an artificial womb is really that much better, why aren't all coordinators raised that way? You'd think the coordinator-supremacists would gladly do so if the artificial womb really made a coordinator that much better. We can make a few possible conclusions from this.1. The "Ultimate Coordinator" is not significantly superior over a regular coordinator, and any superior abilities observed are still within the margin of error2. The artificial womb is either too damn expensive to build/operate or the procedure to create an "Ultimate Coordinator" is too damn unreliable(See: Canard Pars the failed ultimate coordinator)
>>22749539A fuckton of fetuses died in the artificial womb before Kira was born successfully and then Blue Cosmos blew it all up, that’s why most Coordinators aren’t born using artificial wombs. Kira also clearly has some Flaga psychic genes mixed in so he’s more than JUST standard Coordie mods.
