Is there a reason for why I find the DOMs design so cool.
cuz ur gay but that's okay
>>22792499Since Europeans considered it a royal color themselves, this makes all western people a bunch of [don't ban me jan-jan ;((]
It's just "Dom." They're only called DOM in SEEDshit.
>>22792478Large and bulky but simple design still capable of great speed and destructive capacity. It's a neat suit and neat line of suits.
>>22792478I like it in real type colors
>>22792580For me, it's:
hello my fellow zekes
>>22796630I love the Drei so much. I hate that it never got to be in a Gundam Vs game.
>>22792478With a completely flat cross face that does not remotely look like a helmet and the noiseless smooth and sleek bulk the Dom actually looks like a machine while keeping the human-like look of a mobile suit. Combined with the no nonsense land speeder style moves while firing off a giant bazooka and you have a recipe for the most distinct and unique MS in Zeon's catalog.
>>22792478You are a lover of fat women
>>22796630Excellent taste, the Dreissen is a sorely underrated MS
>>22798716You're a lover of fat men.
which is the better gryps war dom?
>>22799005Asshimars can be used as a floatation device in an emergency.
>>22798292It's in Gundam Battle Universe
>>22799104DOESN'T COUNTFUCK YOU
>>22792478The Doms are the best Zeon mobile suit, they got that hover glide thing going on
>>22799743So does the Xamel and it has a bigger gun. I think a bunch of X's stuff also hover glides. Great way for a robit to move.
>>22792478Why do the pilots, who are supposed to be zeons best of the best, sound like country bumpkins in the anime?
>>22800738It's a lazy way english voice directors do any characters who speak non-standard japanese.
>>22800738Because their Japanese accent is southern Japanese. Which is the equivalent to someone speaking with a Southern accent in the USA. Or Southern British
>>22800738Because their JP voices all had Kansai dialects, which is the equivalent of the Southern accent in the US.They also did this for Osaka in Azumanga Daioh.
I like the Dom head but hate everything else about it. I hate the skirt, I hate the feet, everything.
>>22800756America has plenty of rural accents that aren't southern drawl.The Tri-Stars are also more of a thuggish/informal speech that straight rural japanese.Kansai = American Southern is typical Japan 101 Factoid from ironic weebs.Like i said >>22800750. Ultimately it's lazy voice direction. Language is weird and countries are big. People sound different when they live even 50 miles from eachother. Same is true for japanese. Which is more apparent once you gain an ear for it.
>>22800750>>22800756>>22801234>Watched it in japanese and couldn't tell any difference in how they spoke compared to other charactersIs this common for foreign languages or am I just dense?
>>22802194Both.
>>22802194Every language is as varied and nuance as your own mother tongue. Being able to tell is just familiarity and actively trying to note the differences.
>>22801830>Ultimately it's lazy voice direction. Except no one here agrees with you.
How is using a Kansai accent as shorthand for "rural hick" in Japanese any different to using Southern drawl as shorthand for "rural hick," in American dubs? Besides which, no matter which non-standard American/Hollywood accent you pick it'd sound lazy according to someone, be that Cajun, Boston, Wisconsin etc. Shit, at least those accents do get some representation; there are probably tonnes of accents in most countries that barely get airplay outside local media, and not even on a national stage.
>>22801990don't have extension. What is noise supposed to be?
>>22802439that one gundam ibo song, you know the one
>>22802399Fair enough.
>>22798226Thanks I hate it. Skinny Dom might as well be a 00 MS.
The Dom LOOKS like it's heavily armored and should be more difficult to take down because of that, but it seems to go down from regular weaponry just as easily as a Zaku or Gouf. IS it actually heavily armored or just big because of its propulsion system bloating the design?
>>22802362NTAI agree with him but he doesn't state his reason beyond the rightful accusation of laziness so there is no need for me to chip in.
It skates around moving fast afIt's intimidating looking because it's just one big monoeye for a head unit It has an armored vest and big pauldronsIt checks off all the things I love in a suit. Intimidation, speed and aggression.
>>22802987The specs are generally sorta fucked to begin with, but the Dom isn't really that much heavier than the Zaku, and in some cases some Dom variants are even lighter than the Zaku, so it might just be a case of it looking bulky but it's mainly more internal storage for fuel, a much stronger reactor, and the engines housed in the legs.As far as armor goes, I think it really only makes a difference protecting against impacts or defending against weapons like machine guns. Most MS, even the ones made of luna titanium, can die to a direct bazooka or beam shot except in whatever weird circumstances, so it hardly feels like it makes much of a difference sometimes.
>>22803032>Dom slides in at fast speed>Gets the drop on Federation MS that is turned the wrong way with back aimed at Dom>Dom shoots machine gun >Dom misses EVERY single shot.>Dom stops moving and stays in same spot>GM turns around and shoots a single burst from Machine gun>Dom explodes instantly despite heavy armor.I hate 0083 plot armor.
>>22803126The Dom and all it's direct variants are kind a dogshit unit in basically every appearance, at least in terms of actual kills and they have only a handful of kills across all animated media so far as I know. And they mostly use something other than the unit's main weapon (i.e. it's bazooka) to get those kills. I believe the only bazooka kill by a Dom in animation is later that episode, when a Dom kills a GM by pressing the bazooka directly against the unit and firing. The only truly successful Dom successor is the Rick Dias.
>>22803126that's just classic gundam.
>>22803187Turns out fucked targeting due to electronics getting universally nerfed makes the Dom hard to use.
>>22792478I you like fat girls
>>22803032It's pretty funny how old gundam animation never consistent with damage, even when the budget improved. Even in the same show they might have vulcans deleting suits while others bounce much heavier shit. 08th having the protag facetank zaku mg fire inside a ball is particularly obscene.>>22803187Feels like doms are overtuned in videogames though. It's usually smooth movement, low recoil, and pretty heavy armor, always good picks for mid-game. It's great for a dom-lover.
>>22803303I agree with you Anon. A Ball face tanking bullets really undercuts their nature as a cheap disposable shuttle with a gun.
>>22803303>Feels like doms are overtuned in videogames thoughtropen might actually be the best 350 general in GBO2, and i say that as a zakufuckermaybe there should be an OVA with a dom pilot instead of a zaku pilot for once...
>>22792478>incredible speed and firepower>made to ambush heavy armorIt's like the mecha equivalent of a dedicated tank destroyer, minus the difference in armor.
>>22807595More like the Panther of the oyw.
>>22798716https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqBcDYMNOj8
>>22807595The Dom is like a heavy tank with the speed and maneuverability of a light tank. In Gundam media, we repeatedly see small squads of Doms utterly rip through Federation battle lines over and over. I have no idea why it didn't turn the tied of the war on Earth.
>>228031260083 becomes a lot better when you realize it's in-universe titans propaganda.
>>22792478Is there any actual visual difference in the Dom and Rick Dom?
>>22808886i think the thrusters actually look different on the MG kits
>>22808886in 0079, only visual difference on Rick is the verniersthe original MG kit changed the backpack and back skirt too
>>22808687The Dom isn't a heavily armored unit; it has speed and maneuverability because it's lightly armored despite it's size. The bulk is from thrusters and fuel, not armor. I'm also pretty sure if there's repeated instances of it ripping through Federation lines then it's in things outside the animation, because it's really not a particularly effective unit in any animations.
>>22809439>it's really not a particularly effective unit in any animations.LIES
You have no idea how much I love the beam bazooka design.
>>22809439>The bulk is from thrusters and fuel, not armor.It's literally called a heavy mobile suit in the lore books due to the reinforced armor they put on the frame.
>>22809539posters just make up total bullshit about the specs of fake anime mechs like they're real documented things you can look up when how durable any given mobile suit is has always been totally inconsistent and based entirely on how strong they needed it to be at the time for the scene they wrote
>>22809670still bugs me that they had a slam-dunk set up for the bullets to be deflected by the debris and immediately leading to it wiring it up, and they threw in a full two seconds of it eating lead anyway. They even show it getting hit more during the spin!
>>22792478Purple mecha are always cool.
>>22809439They are the Worf from Star Trek of the three Zeon suits. Unfortunately they suffer the same fate of Worf by having an insane win:loss ratio that makes it impossible to see Doms as good suits. Video games which try and maintain consistency based on performance always cause the Doms to become monsters because they are not handicapped by plot armor to suck.
>>22809670>>22809701A lot of 1990s UC Gundam has a lot of Shounen Tropes written into the show.Like the main character yelling and getting extra plot armor which makes him bullet proof. Like the main character being given command of a super special Gundam mobile suit despite being an academy graduate rookie with no experience.Or women instantly falling in love with MC or vice versa.
>>22810184It actually makes me grateful that Tomino avoided doing that with his own Gundam shows for the most part. As much as I love 90s UC Gundam, I probably wouldn't watch the shows if it weren't for the top tier animation. A lot of the writing for them is just bad. Especially for cringe characters like Shiro Amada (08th MS Team) and Kou Uraki (0083) who both manage to fall in love beautiful white women.
>>22810200They broke Tomino's rules of keeping MC names ethnically ambiguous.
>>22803303DOM in gundam evolution is not only top tier, it's also one of the easiest units gliding around in that game feels so good when you get used to it
who draws the best doms?
>>22792478the hovering gimmick makes it a really effective mobile suit, and somehow it also looks cool.
>>22798815agreed
>>22814676Yasuo Ohtagaki
Doms just have such an imposing look to them. Really wish they'd re-release the HG Rick Dom 2 more often, can't find em around.Haven't seen the HG ZZ Dreissen around either, but it might just be bad luck with local stores.
I'm reading the databooks and the Doms supposedly have all this extra reinforced armor but what is the point if they get taken down so easy by Federation bullets???? .
>>22818321>make mobile suits extra armored against munitions used by conventional forces>enemy makes mobile suits with weapons that can surpass their level of protectionDoms being made for pre-MS Federation forces in mind makes sense. Even Zakus were no counter against heavily-defended zones and would just get drowned in shells and missiles because they're not fast or armored enough to deal with that kind of firepower, so a fast unit with enough armor to take a few hits and a fuckoff huge weapon to destroy hardpoints made sense. Too bad it doesn't mean much when the enemy makes their own mobile weapons that can easily dodge the main weapon on these units, the mobility doesn't mean that much against tracking systems that can keep up, and the armor is negligible against even their newer shell-firing weapons with ammunition made to a lot more reliably penetrate enemy mobile suits.
>>22818321Their legs need the protection.
>>22814676>>22818207My preference is Izubuchi,
>>22802486Stop asking intelligent questions.
>>22803126>>22803032>>22803262I like to think of it as the Zeon mobile suits used in 0083 were all cobbled together messes that had far less capability than they would have had when fresh off the assembly line in the OYW. The Gelgoog Marine and Dom Tropen were just them doing what they could with what they still had. That and that scene obviously had the GM pilot distracted by the Dom so the two Zakus were able to get the jump on him.
i could've sworn i've seen a dom tank a BSG shot but maybe i'm mistaking it for a gelgoog
>>22818446Wait hold on I thought Doms were designed to kill GMs?
>>22819149doms were designed for anti-ship combat, they were thought up a lot earlier than you'd think
>>22820949They also debuted before the GM even in the original show, so I'm not sure what'd make someone think they were designed to fight GMs. Never mind that their main weapon is a big, slow bazooka that's mostly useless against mobile suits and later iterations of the Dom family designed with mobile suit combat in mind all had some kind of rifle or pistol as well as a bazooka.
>>22819149Doms were chosen as an alternative to Goufs because the Goufs were too expensive for their performance increase.
>>22820961Didn't the Gundam and Ground GM come out before Dom? I remember Zeon kept talking about Federation mobile suits coming soon.
>>22821509The GMs come out officially during the battle of Jaburo. Everything else before that is essentially prototyping. However, the Doms were already ready before then which is why the Black Tri-Stars have them as the red tape was basically removed for their deployment.
>>22819149Gm weren't even out when the dom first got deployed
>>22818207>>22818852look how blocky and sexy they are
>>22819149The Gyan and the Gouf were developed in competition for MS combat in expectation of Federation Mobile Suits while the Dom was developed as an extension of the Zaku and Zaku II's anti-ship doctrine. The Dom ended up being more suitable for MS combat as well as cheaper to produce which is why it supplanted the Gouf a the primary Zeon MS combat unit. The Gelgoog on the other hand was developed and finalized to counter the Gundam and GMs.>>22821509That was because they knew that the GMs and Gundam were in development because of the existence of the 3 year old Guntank and the 1 year old Guncannon.
>>22821867>>22818446>>22821950Zeon had spies within the Federation leaking them information. Giren and the other Zeon top brass were talking about Operation V and the data.
Besides beam weapons, the Dom is Superior to the GM in every regard. In the battle for Earth I don't understand how Zeon could lose the advantage while using the Dom. They are incredibly fast, can use a wide variety of weapons, and their mobility is beyond anything the Federation had.Remember the Dom was made because the Zaku 2 and Gouf had inadequate mobility on Earth. A Dom absolutely wrecks a Zaku 2. So how did the GM turn the tide when the GM is just as slow as a Zaku on Earth? Both are sluggish walking towers. A Dom should take both of them out with ease.
>>22822792All of Zeon's command structure died. At least the ones that mattered. Turns out killing all the Zabis was all you really needed.
>>22822792being outnumbered 10 to 1 tends to do that
>>22823047How are Zeon Outnumbered when it came to Mobile suits?Zeon had Granada, A Boa Que, and California Base pumping out Doms.Federation only had Jaburo making GMs.
>>22823047Didn't a single Zaku kill like 30 Federation tanks? A 1:30 kill ratio is insanely good.
>>22822792Superior mobility, maybe overall armor thickness... I'm drawing a blank elsewhere, because it turns out that having weapons that ignore armor or make it largely irrelevant and have ways to counter that mobility like fighting in terrain not conducive to hovering already mitigate any advantage a Dom could have. Every Gryps-era mobile suit could do what the Dom did, yet nobody had issues killing each other.
>>22823099You say that but...Gouf Flight Types were absolutely wrecking GM II's during Zeta. This was when the AEUG was attacking Jaburo. The Gouf Flight Types with Bazookas were zipping around the Jungle and absolutely wrecking the AEUG GM II's. So why wasn't this possible during the One Year War? The GM II is a much newer suit too.
>>22823117>Gouf Flight Types were absolutely wrecking GM II's during ZetaThe Gouf Flight Type was introduced in 08th MS Team
>>22823124And they were used in Zeta Gundam by the Titans to absolutely smash AEUG GM II's. The Titans used them like Doms and hovered around the battlefield.
>>22823117>>22823130That was the Gouf Flight Test Type. The EFF upgraded it.
>>22823145The issue was flying. Not with the hovering. The Titans used them exactly like Doms while defending Jaburo.
>>22823130ALL MS produced and refitted in that period could do that, those Flight Types were nothing special. You're completely glossing over the fact that the AEUG forces took the losses they did primarily through ambushes from forces that had home field advantage, not because skimming was some kind of trump card on the field.
>>22823193GM 2 can't hover on Earth. Which is why anon is making that comparison
>>22821951el quadrado sexo
>>22823193>ALL MS produced and refitted in that period could do thatActually no they can't. GM II can't hover like Doms can. Im not sure even sure if Nemo can do it either.
>>22823741the nemo can do itthe gryps jaburo drop has a bunch of MS showing off their hovering capabilities too, i'd need to rewatch it to remember them all
>>22823844That just looks like the Nemo is using its rockets to boost. It can't actually "hover in place" like Gouf Flight Type, Dom, Gundam, or Hyaku Shiki.
>>22823868can the rick dias hover?
>>22823886Isn't the Rick Dias based off the Dom? I would imagine so.
>>22802486Minovsky-treated alloys.
>>22823844Every MS besides some super early ones are capable of limited high-speed flight with their boosters.Ones that can maintain a consistent hover on the ground have open leg skirts & large, solid feet fitting a lot of thrust, like the Dom, which the Rick Dias does.^>>22823886
>>22822792Zeon's true industrial power base is in space not Earth and Rick Doms are not particularly special compared to the GMs. They are just Doms repurposed for space so their jet specific designs do not give them any special advantage.
>>22826391California Base Factory made a huge amount of Doms. Some databooks say hundreds and others even say thousands. Not saying Space factories weren't important but California Base Factory pumped out a huge amount.
>>22826547Those Doms are just a drop in the bucket by that point. While they are stuck trying and failing to so much as scratch untouched logistics of the Feddies their vastly superior logistics chain has already gained a foothold in Space and Zeon is royally fucked.
>>22826547>make a bunch of land-use MS>Zeon's already been pushed into space
>>22823741>>22823844>>22823886
>>22826758And the GM is never seen doing it again. Lmao.
>>22826758Then why did the GM or Nemo not hover during the actual battle?
>>22826758None of those is the Dom's ski style movement. it is practically the Dom's signature.
>>22826981>>22827046>>22827051>Nemos and GM IIs can't skim>MS shown skimming>th-that doesn't count!Heh. >it is practically the Dom's signature And? Technology progressed far enough that interwar and Gryps-era mobile suits could mimic the same effect without having to design an entire system around it like the Dom.
>>22827498>Gryps-era mobile suits could mimic the same effect without having to design an entire system around it like the Dom.No they can't. Your own videos prove it with them making clunky short bursts or rocket propulsion in space.
>>22827758Just because other mobile suits can do what the Dom can do doesn't mean you can't like it, just that its gimmick is not unique.
>>22827941Except they cannot do it. You have not once shown them skating.
>>22826758That's not rapid hovering. They are just using their rockets at low power to thrust around. They aren't actually equipped with hovering jets.
>>22827803What is this? Looks awesome.
>>22826758>>22827498That's not hovering. That boosting and thrusting. They can only do that for a tiny distance.A Dom and Gouf Flight Type can hover for hundreds of miles.Learn the difference.
>>22818958There's actually some fact to this. The Rick Dom II in 0083 has three less main thrusters than the same identical unit in 0080, which has five. Not just less thrust, but they actually stripped thrusters out, mainly because the Delaz Fleet had basically zero logistical support and had to cannibalize their MS to keep their forces operational. I mean, look at the half-AMBACed mess that was the Dra-C.
>>22828423Makes you wonder what the Delaz fleet could have done if they had just a little more behind the scenes funding and support. Like if Anaheim Electronics secretly supported them like they did with Char's Neo Zeon.
>>22828432As I recall, Anaheim basically funded Char's entire army and built everything for them, so I guess Delaz would trade in all of their Zakus and Doms, but for what sort of MS? Just 3 years after the war is not enough time for Anaheim to figure out a brand new mass production high end MS, IIRC it would take them a while to start producing suits like the Rick Dias, and the Dowas prototype wasn't given to Anaheim until 0084. Act Zaku and Galbaldy Alphas are unlikely since the Federation captured their data and factory lines at Pezun which Anaheim wouldn't have access to, unless some lucky engineers escaped and made it to the moon.Maybe they can toss them some kind hybrid MS made out of scrapped/salvaged Zeon and Fed MS. Like Zakus and Doms that can use beam rifles because they incorporate GM parts and reactors inside a bigger backpack.
>>22828506It was my understanding that Anaheim was already making GM Customs and new Gundams in 0083. Perhaps they could have made "Zeon-ified" versions of those? Same internal frame but Zeon style external armor. Or bare minimum give the Delaz fleet more Gelgoogs and Rick Doms. Anaheim captured a bunch of them for testing along with Zeon's main factories. There should be absolutely NO reason Delaz should be using Zaku IIs. Those were outdated even before the One Year War was over.
>>22803187That's because every UC anime outside of original MS IGLOO series is a feddie wank. Of course the Dom is going to be a jobber that gets zero kills.
>>22828557>Or bare minimum give the Delaz fleet more Gelgoogs and Rick Doms. Anaheim captured a bunch of them for testing along with Zeon's main factories.Never ever heard of that. We don't even see any of those in Anaheim usage, just Fed service. Anaheim itself didn't capture anything, they financially acquired the weapons companies and employees that Side 3 was forced to give up.
>>22792478Because they hovered and are pure block sex
>>22792478Assuming an anecdote I heard that the zake was never meant to have toys made of it is true, and it also applies to other zeon suits, then the Dom wasn't made with constraints, it was designed pure and simple to look good before Gundam kills them
>>22829867It's not an anecdote. Tomino said so multiple times during written interviews, and even on camera during a video interview that's probably still up on YouTube (unless Bandai copyright struck it) .Back in the 70s and early 80s, the Japanese toy makers didn't care about the enemy toys. They only cared about hero/"good guy" toys. So they let the staff do whatever they wanted with the enemies since they thought the audience would only care about the hero.So Tomino gave the mecha designers free reign to do whatever they wanted.He only gave 2 original rules.1. Each enemy unit had to be distinctive and unique. He wanted every enemy unit to stand out. That each unit was clear in a group if shown in screen. 2. That enemy units could be vaguely drawn by a 7 year old child watching the anime.Tomino was concerned that enemy units sometimes had overcomplicated designs that the audience could never remember.This was to force the mecha designer to stick to "essence" of what as important and not overdesign things. If a 7 year old could vaguely recreate your mecha design on paper with crayons, then you succeeded.
>>22830222>1. Each enemy unit had to be distinctive and unique.Proceeds to make the Gouf and Gelgoog identical to the Zaku
>>22830232>goufblue + electric tentacle>gelgooggray, shoulder spikes, snout holes
>>22830232You mean how in later Gundam shows Bandai corporate took over and started meddling in the design process, and gave us 50 variations of the same GM? Because they wanted to milk fans for as much money as possible.
>>22830232>Proceeds to make the Gouf and Gelgoog identical to the ZakuYou must be blind if you seriously think the Gouf and Gelgoog looks IDENTICAL to the Zaku.The Gouf is Blue for crying out loud, has a whip, and uses bullet fingers. The horns are differently shaped.The Gelgoog only shares the mono-eye.
>>22830232I am not an expert on childrens' crayon drawings but the Gouf has distinct shoulder horns and a shield. Complete with either a sword or a whip. I am also excluding western children because I figure kids in Japan will try and copy the art styles of Japan they are constantly exposed to. Oh and Goufs are blue and not green.
>>22792478Big mechanical calves.
>>22830232Faceblindness is typically a symptom of deeper mental shortcomings, anon.
>>22798570>flat cross face that does not remotely look like a helmet
>>22830933I love the Dom with the Zaku nose
>>22834375I still stand by my statement. You can even see it more clearly how inhuman the Dom looks.
Dowas Custom is meant to serve as a link between the Rick Dom II and the Rick Dias. Dowas Custom is an Axis-developed upgrade to the Dowas (a Rick Dom II successor that to this day has no defined appearance beyond the head) which was used to test Gundarium Gamma as well as part of the operation to transfer the alloy's data to Anaheim Electronics. The machine itself also ended up in AE's hands and would play a part in developing Rick Dias.From the MG Hyaku Shiki + Ballute system manual, clearly states it has a movable frame and even compares it to the Rick Dias.So, the Hyaku Shiki is also a descendant of the Rick Dom.
>>22830381Tomino pretty much meant that you could tell them apart with a quick glance.Zaku is clearly different than Gouf.Dom is clearly different than Gelgoog or Gyan.No Zeon suit in the original show looks similars to eachother. Tomkno doesn't want a situation like Geara Doga and Geara Zulu (Unicorn) in later anime. Without looking it up on Google or some other search engine, you probably don't remember how they are different. Both are green blobs with lots of lines and greebles. Kids would get confused seeing them.
>>22835371>You can even see it more clearly how inhuman the Dom looksthis board consistently has the worst takes
>>22798226Are you into Fem-Dom?
DOM platoon
>>22792580IT"S NOT A GOOD DESIGNZIMMAD SHOULD HAVE MADE MORE ZUDAHDO NOT FALL TO ZEONIC PROPAGANDA
>>22807595ZUDAH IS FASTER
>>22843087>>22843090It's time to let go.
>>22843123YOU WON"T FOOL ME ZEONIC GOONAS LONG AS I DRAW BREATH I WON"T STAND FOR YOUR SUBPAR MOBILE SUITS STAINING THE GLORY OF ZEON
ʰᶦ ᵍᵘʸˢ ᶜᵃn ᶦ ʲᵒᶦn ᵗʰᵉ ᶜˡᵘᵇ
>>22843072Those authors don't understand ground warfare at all. Shields are not invincible cover than you can just hide behind.There's a reason you don't see soldiers running around with big thick shields in warfare. It doesn't work. It's always easier for the enemy to carry a bigger handheld weapon than smashes that shield and makes the shield meaningless.GMs hiding behind shields make me laugh
>>22843259these are not remotely comparable
>>22840127>Geara Doga and Geara Zulu (Unicorn) in later anime. Without looking it up on Google or some other search engine, you probably don't remember how they are different. Both are green blobs with lots of lines and greebles. Kids would get confused seeing them.what the fuck is wrong with your brain
>>22843264A soldier in WW2 was able to carry small handheld rocket propelled grenade which destroy entire tanks. Yes its absolutely comparable.
>>22843265Oh your that guy that makes random insulting statements without any clarification. I recognize you from multiple threads now.
>>22843259>Shields are not invincible cover than you can just hide behind.They were never meant to be, they were meant to be disposable devices to take hits that would otherwise be disabling or fatal to the user, which is exactly what it does for the most part. I'd rather have a shield than rely on the chance that the enemy simply misses me or trusting armor that generally does next to dick against even the most commonly issued MS weapons. >GMs hiding behind shields make me laughDoms relying on their vaunted speed but still getting BTFO makes me laugh, too.
>>22843463>Doms relying on their vaunted speed but still getting BTFO makes me laugh, too.It's always better to NOT get hit by an attack than to get hit. That's why a Dom is better. >I'd rather have a shield than rely on the chance that the enemy simply misses me or trusting armor that generally does next to dick against even the most commonly issued MS weapons. I'd rather not get it.
>>22843498>It's always better to NOT get hit by an attack than to get hit. >GM gets shot at with a beam rifle, attack that is guaranteed to kill or severely damage is deflected>Dom gets shot at with a beam rifle, attack that is guaranteed to kill or severely damage performs as expectedObviously, which is the point of the shield, are you paying attention? It's not like MS are much less agile using one, it gives them a greater chance of survival than eating shots meant for the machine itself. >That's why a Dom is better.It's not, it turns out speed doesn't mean that much when it's only about as fast as a helicopter in ideal conditions but practically stuck to hugging the ground while being taller and wider than any modern fighter.>I'd rather not get it.Why would they armor up a mobile suit that was meant to rely on speed to not get hit in the first place? Especially if that armor has shown to be of no use against MS weaponry?
The Dom is better than the GM. Hell, it’s stated that it’s better than the gundam when amuro started to show his newtype bullshit magic and that was the only reason why he could beat them so easily. It’s in the battle of texas episode or whatever.
>>22843770>Obviously, which is the point of the shield, are you paying attention?Are you? What part of "it's better not to get hit" did you not understand? That obviously includes getting hit while using shield.
GOM
>>22822792Besides beam weapons? Numbers. The Federation had something like 10 times Zeon's population and a GM only needed one clean hit to kill a Dom.
>>22844820That's what colony drops are for. Zeon should have just kept dropping colonies and asteroids on earth instead of landing on it.
>>22844867They barely managed to do one drop and still lost most of their veterans and aces, hamstringing their organisation right when the war got really difficult.
>>22844869That's because they were using shit that was too small. Char had the right idea with dropping axis. Zeon should have done that and just tried to make earth uninhabitable rather than getting greedy and trying to snipe jaburo.
>>22844869>They barely managed to do one drop and still lost most of their veterans and acesWhere does nonsense come from? None of it was supported in the animated shows.What's implied in the anime was that Zeon did a Colony drop, invaded Earth, and stretched themselves out as far as they could go before stretching themselves too thin. Then aces were picked off by the Gundam and random battles own Earth.Nothing about them dying during the Colony drop. Federation couldn't do anything anyway as mobile suits completely laugh at their space fleet.
>>22844867Zeon would have run out of colonies before the Federation ran out of bases. The colonists were also not evacuated so they were killing the very people they were ostensibly fighting to protect. Really not a good look. >AsteroidsToo valuable. You need natural resource satellites to make and feed colonies.
>>22845069If you kill all the earthnoids you can mine the asteroids you used to wreck them afterward. It's a flawless plan. It's probably even easier to mine them after you send them hurtling into earth too.
>>22845069>Zeon would have run out of colonies before the Federation ran out of bases.The only Federation base that mattered was Jaburo with its industrial factories.
>>22844820How cheap is it to manufacture and maintain beam weapons in UC Gundam? Some Gundam shows act like beams are rare relics or expensive luxuries. So grunts in those shows get bullets and rockets.Where does UC fall on that scale?
>>22826547Could you post the source of this?
>>22845117they only became ubiquitous around Gryps Conflict
>>22844867They lost so many people doing the first and only one that Revil explicitly called them out for it. Not beating the exhaustion allegations.
>>22845143>they only became ubiquitous around Gryps ConflictNot that anon If they were so expensive, then how did the Federation mass produce beam weapons? I thought the GM was supposed to be very cheap for mass production.>>22845150>Zeon is exhausted!>Zeon invades Earth with hundreds of millions of troops. >Following war is the bloodiest war in the history of humanityWomp womp
>>22845173Yeah that's why the war lasted for years just like M'Quve promised
>>22845180Speed watcher. M'Quve never said that. He said the resources he sent to Zeon would keep them supplied for 10 years.
>>22845184I accept your concession
>>22845180Well...... 1. M'Quve didn't say that exactly. He was talking about Zeon's supplies and resources. Losing Odessa wasn't big deal because M'Quve filled up Zeon's gas tank before the base fell. 2. It technically did last 10 years. More like 15 years. The Federation couldn't finish Zeon off. So Zeon kept coming back. Neo Zeon (Axis). Neo Neo Zeon (Char). Neo Neo Neo Zeon (the Sleeves).
>>22845150I'm going to be real with you. General Revil never impressed me. His whole strategy has always been "I'm going to keep throwing soldiers into the meat grinder until the meat grinder jams". Literal human wave tactics.And Gundam the Origin didn't do him any favors. With Revil having a literal mental breakdown on the bridge and his junior officers having to drag him to the escape shuttle while he had a panic attack.
>>22845210The origin isn't even part of the same canon. You can just ignore it's existence as it may as well be an AU.
>>22845198>>22845210>zeekfags mindbroken this hard
>>22845221This girl should put on some clothes, she will catch a cold like that.
>>22844975It came from the same place all the backstory for the One Year War and information on the colony drop came from: data books and the Tomino novelizations, cause there's no information on them in the show itself, since Tomino wasn't really interested in that with the animation.
>>22845232The databooks must be wrong since other Colony drops were done with only a handful of ships. An entire massive fleet is not needed.
>>22845247delaz claimed that the colony drop he was carrying out with his little group was the kind of operation that previously required half of the entire zeon space fleet, implying that he was stroking himself proud and/or the feds were hyper-incompetent, probably a bit of both
>>22845696And every other Colony drop or Asteroid drop only required a handful of ships.Something doesn't add up.
>>22845715The Federation was drained throughout ZZ, and not only unwilling to fight Haman but actually happy to have her drop a colony so if course they put up no resistance and the only real resistance was from AEUG. The same is broadly true in Char's Counterattack, where Neo Zeon had bribed the Federation and they were looking the other way, so only Londo Bell was actually fighting back. The reason it's not adding up is because you're ignoring context and acting like the situation is identical in every case.
>>22845173>Not that anon If they were so expensive, then how did the Federation mass produce beam weapons? I thought the GM was supposed to be very cheap for mass production.Because Feddies went all-in on ending the war and could (for the moment) afford ruining their economy even more for the sake of the final push. Plus, GMs mostly used spray guns that sacrificed range and penetrative power for the sake of being cheaper. Overall GMs were still damn cheap compared to something like the Gundam but there's a reason all throughout 0083 we see hardly any (or any at all?) GMs with beam weapons.
>>22845075Mining out an asteroid takes a long ass time and even after you're done they're more useful as fortresses than artillery. >>22845114The problem was that they didn't know exactly where Jamburo was or how big it was. It was mentioned in MSV that some Neo-Zeon faction did bombard Jamburo but only took out some of it's facilities, not the entire base. I'm not sure how canon that is but Jamburo was supposed to be massive. >>22845117The OYW (That is, Kido Senshi Gundam) featured the start of MS portable beam weapons. Before that you needed an entire ship to power a beam weapon. The Gundam was essentially a testbed for the Beam Rifle and Beam Saber.
>>22845715During the OYW, the Federation were actively opposing the Zeon colony drops with whole fleets of warships, requiring Zeon to deploy vessels & MS to escort the colony itself.Operation Stardust only got as far as it did because a) they hijacked a colony in transit rather than having to get it moving on their own, b) they'd sucker-punched the Federation Fleet at the fleet review via nuke and c) certain elements in the Federation both knew about the plan & wanted it to be a meaningful threat as to further their political aims.By ZZ & CCA, the Federation has functionally stopped working. The political leadership is wholly aloof or sufficiently corrupt to be paid off, which cascades down through the military leadership. This isn't helped that most of the talented/ambitious officers who you'd turn to for leadership in such a scenario would've gotten involved in the AEUG/Titans conflict and died as a result.
>>22846026>The problem was that they didn't know exactly where Jamburo was or how big it was.How in the world could this possibly be true when Zeon had spies in the Federation at high levels giving them information? The spies gave Zeon a bunch of information including info on Project V, Operation Odessa, etc. You don't think Zeon couldnt get a basic map of Jaburo? This is absurd.
>>22845842The Federation not only didn't resist Haman. They actively supported her. They let Neo Zeon tour the planet on their massive ship and visit different cities to show off their power. They didn't even bother evacuating Civilians from Dublin during the Colony drop. The Federation cheered Haman on when she dropped the Colony. The only one not facing reality is you.
>>22846192The "Basic map" is the problem. One of the tricks of counterintelligence is to make sure that only the most senior staff actually knows everything. Zeon had spies in the Federation, yes, but they still chased the Trojan Horse even when it was blatantly being used as a distraction. They didn't see the first Solar System being used to knock out Solomon despite the fact that it was a gigantic mirror array in Earth Orbit. They didn't develop beam sabers and rifles until late in the war despite knowing about Project V and having a head start in MS development. In the case of Jamburo it's easy because the entire base is underground. It's impossible to survey Jamburo from the air and it's not like there's a public tour of it's facilities. If you're assigned to Jamburo you're told about the parts you need to know about and not to worry about the rest. When you're issued a map it's a redacted copy with only the parts you need to know about. I mean, Zeon didn't even know about the Megaparticle cannons or else they'd never have sent in the Gaws.
>>22844638The GP02's theft robbed us of a development like this.I fucking hate Gato so much it's unreal
>>22846227Not that anon you replying to but didn't 08th MS Team confirm that Zeon knew about Jaburo? That's why Giren approved of the Apsalus Project to create a flying mobile armor that could fire a big beam from the sky and melt Jaburo from above. That way Zeon didn't have to waste man power invading Jaburo directly.
>>22846240and despite knowing that, they still couldn't do fuckall about jaburo
Why did Zeon sign the Antarctic Treaty when they had all the advantages? What did Zeon get out of it?
>>22846428Nukes would basically one-shot all the colonies which would practically destroy Zeon.
>>22846461No, they wouldn't. Nukes aren't nearly as destructive in space as they are in an atmosphere, which is presumably why the GP-02 went with a casaba howitzer to weaponize it's nuke, rather than just dropping it as a bomb.
>>22846461can't do that without a working space fleethell the Feds couldn't even do that when they still had a working space fleet at the beginning
>>22846428>>22846461>>22846464>>22846496So basically nukes got used so much during the first half of the war that both sides lost half their total populations. After that everyone realized that if they kept tossing nukes around there wouldn't be anything left to fight over.
>>22846464>Nukes aren't nearly as destructive in space as they are in an atmosphereThey're less destructive at a distance than in atmosphere. Set one off right next to your target and you're mostly just trading blast for more thermal. They're plenty destructive, though you'd probably end up blowing/melting a hole in the colony rather than the complete shattering people seem to expect. Might still fall apart after.>which is presumably why the GP-02 went with a casaba howitzer to weaponize it's nukeIt really didn't. The only similarity is "sort of beam-like for a bit". What they showed is either a substantial misunderstanding of how nuclear shaped charges work or (far more likely) just something they thought would look cool - which it does.
>>22846508>So basically nukes got used so much during the first half of the war that both sides lost half their total populations.Sure, but the problem is that while that's parroted a lot, it's also at odds with the fact that Side 3 never got attacked directly, only Sides 1, 2, 4, 5, and 7 are stated to have been hit by weapons or were the site of major battles during the first month of the war. Side 3 itself is located on the other side of the moon and they also have Solomon and A Baoa Qu nearby as defensive fortresses on the way, so how the fuck did half of Side 3 even die? Even counting infantry and ship crew and MS pilots, that don't make a lick of sense especially when you take the actual population numbers into account. At one point they said Side 3 population was 150 million, elsewhere they said 1.3 billion, so what the fuck does that even mean? Is it 75 million dead on the smallest end of the scale, or did they start the war with 2.6 billion and half of those are dead?
>>22846461>Nukes would basically one-shot all the colonies which would practically destroy Zeon.Except Zeon has nukes too. They could nuke Earth.
>>22846428The goal at the start was to get Federation to surrender and officially acknowledge Zeon's independence. Just the fact that the treaty negotiations were organized in the first place and treated as talks between two nations was an unspoken acceptance of that fact, what Zeon wanted was the Federation saying that out loud and ending the war. But Revil came back and following his famous "Zeon is exhausted" speech Federation resolve was hardened and they refused to submit, forcing Zeon into a long war it was absolutely not equipped to handle.
>>22846584>forcing Zeon into a long war it was absolutely not equipped to handle.Debatable.
>>22846626No, it's not. Their supply lines were in a horrendous state months before the Gundam was finished, to the point they were deploying years old cancelled prototypes like Hildolfr. Not to mention the general FUBAR state of organization with non-standardized parts even between the same mobile suit models but from different factories and production runs.
>>22846626lol what's to debate, the war DID get extended and they lost
>>22846570jaburo being deep underground with thickass rock walls would have been perfect for withstanding nuclear strikesit'd be different if the zeeks set up a deep-drilling operation and then dropped a nuke down a hole though
>>22846626There isn't, Zeon is a clear Imperial Japan/Nazi Germany allegory, an extended war meant they were going to lose.
>>22846630>>22846649>>22846650>>22846668Different anon here. I feel the urge to point out that Tomino's 0079 novels has Zeon win. Zeon finishes the Colony Laser. The laser can fire repeatedly and obliterates the Federation. Game over. I think this shows that Zeon was incredibly close to winning in an alternate universe scenario. If one thing changes in Zeon's favor then the Federation would have lost.
>>22846521That whole "both sides lost half of their respective populations" quote was an ancient mis-translated sub (or dub?) from the early 2000s that somehow still got parroted to this day. If you think about it, IFF there are any major battles in Side 3 pretty much means Zeon would be at its end.
>>22846701see, that's the problem, to let zeon win, you had to make it so that zeon winskinda defeats the purpose
>>22846755You have it backwards. To have Zeon win, just one minor thing needs to change. The Federation is slightly delayed with their final attack on Zeon in space, or Zeon starts their construction of the Colony Laser a bit earlier. It's not like Tomino vastly changed the story to give Zeon a huge advantage. The novels show us that Zeon was pretty close to victory numerous times.
>>22846773then you just get into boondoggles where it's like>why didn't they just make a colony laser in the beginning
>>22843294Zeonic Go Home.>>22844869Operation British went off without a problem, the problem was the Federation fleet damaged the colony enough to that it broke up on re-entry.The Loum operation wasn't planned to be a colony drop, but it was announced as such to force the Federation fleets at Luna II out of hiding and into a decisive battle.The battle started away from the colony cluster, but as the Feddies started losing, they fled to the colonies to use them as shields for their retreat and the rest is history.
>>22846788First they would have to hijack a colony, which would get the Federation's attention. Then they have to spend a lot of time, labor and resources converting it to a weapon, which strains Zeon's economy and gives the Federation time to respond. Since the war ended in a year, it was already too late when construction finished.
>>22846956They had multiple colonies under their control since before the war started.
>>22846890The hell are you talking about? >Operation British was a huge gamble for the Zeon forces. The casualties sustained by the large fleet it assembled to escort the colony amounted to a far greater quantity of material resources and talented personnel than anticipated. The positioning of the escort fleets didn't allow them to leave the perimeter of the colony, so they became simply targets for a two-front attack from Earth and the Federation fleet. Operation British proved to be a brutal struggle for both sides.Direct quote from Gundam Century, as core of a source as it gets. Only thing later materials have done is expand on it still.
>>22846963Literally no animated material or even any manga agree with you.
>>22846890>WTF?! THEY'RE USING COLONIES AS SHIELDS!!! THOSE BASTARDS!Didn't Zeon start the whole war by gassing and blowing up entire colonies completely unprompted? What the fuck are they getting indignant for?
>>22846956Let me get this straight.. Building a colony laser before the war or at the start of the war is impossible because of those challenges... but it was totally practical and easy to do it in the last stages of the war when they were low on resources, getting pushed off the earth, and AFTER suffering the first 9 months of the war?>>22846890>The Loum operation wasn't planned to be a colony dropThat manga you posted literally has them installing ACTUAL nuclear pulse engines onto the side 5 colony they were prepping as a second drop, but you're probably going to claim some shit about it being top secret deception (so secret only Gihren knew it was a fake, right?) in order to TRULY trick the Feds into thinking it was real
>>22846986not only are they bitching about the feds using nearby colonies as shields, in that operation the Zeeks are currently hijacking one of those colonies with all the civilians still inside, intending on performing another colony drop
>>22846962You have to move all the inhabitants somewhere>>22846993No, I was saying that they probably started construction as soon as the war began, but it took so much time and resources that it was completed near the end of the war. Delays can also happen due to resource or manpower shortages, nearby battles, or internal politics.
>>22846968I accept your concession.
>>22846968fat fucking chance considering how many depictions of operation british there are
>>22846993"Necessity is the Mother of invention"Zeon had no reason to build a Colony Laser during the early and mid war. Zeon was winning on all fronts.The Antarctic Treaty wasn't signed so everyone was using nukes and other crazy weapons.Only after the Treaty was signed did Zeon have to get creative with ideas on how to not violate the Treaty. Like the Apsalus super laser project or giant mobile armors.The Federation came up with the solar system with thousands of mirrors. They gave Zeon the idea for solar weapons using the power of the sun. Zeon then rapidly built the Colony Laser in a matter of weeks/days. Gotta give Zeon credit there. Rapid building. If they had a little more time they would have been able to make the laser fire repeatedly.
>>22846963>Gundam Century Not an official depiction. If you want that, MS IGLOO showed the colony escort that appears to be around 30-32 Musai and doesn't mention if any of the escort was lost.>>22846986Not unprompted, Sides 1, 2, and 4 were all Federation aligned, made it clear they were staying with the Federation, and all had Federation garrisons stationed within them. The destruction of those Sides were necessary for the war effort because if they were allowed to mobilize, you're talking tens if not hundreds of millions more Federation troops and the industrial might of those Sides being used against Zeon, along with the bigger problem they would be used as rally points to launch attacks directly on Side 3 because they were neighboring sides. >>22846993That's a perfect way to force an engagement with the Federation and push them out of their defensive positions. The scene also shows the Federation is willing to sacrifice the very people they were tasked with protecting to save themselves.And this is how the destruction of Loum happened in MS IGLOO as well, because the Federation fleet moved through the colony cluster to engage the Zeon fleet and the battle began away from the colonies. Meaning the Federation had to intentionally flee to the colonies during their retreat to cause the Side to be destroyed in the cross fire.
>>22847017>fat fucking chance considering how many depictions of operation british there areThen show us one single depiction that supports your claim.
>>22847902
>>22847951Feddies can't meme
>>22846240Zeon knew roughly where Jaburo was at the beginning of the war. The Colony Drop on Sydney was actually aimed at Jaburo but got diverted after it broke up during reentry. The Federation couldn't hide all the ships coming in and out of South America.The problem, and the reason Zeon tailed White Base back to Jaburo, was that it was hard to see exactly where the base began and ended. Everything was underground so you could hit the main docks and completely miss the admin center and fuel and ammo depots. It was such a large base that even after the Titans nuked it during the Gryps conflict there was still useful facilities left.
>>22847902>Not unpromptedYes, they were, Zeon launched surprise attacks all over the Earth Sphere a few seconds after declaring war on the Federation before they could mobilize their own forces, those surprise attacks included nukes and gas and entire colony clusters were wiped out.>The scene also shows the Federation is willing to sacrifice the very people they were tasked with protecting to save themselves.Wait, so you justify Zeon using tactics like blowing up and gassing entire colonies just to get at Federation millitary forces stationed within, because if they didn't then Zeon wouldn't last a second if they were to fully mobilize, then also call foul when the Federation also played dirty in a desperate bid to not lose further ground against an enemy that essentially sucker punched them while they were caught napping and had already displayed a complete lack of regard for civilian lives to get what they want as shown by the billions of colonists they killed from the jump, during a mission where Zeon was trying to drop a SECOND colony on Earth that they didn't even have the courtesy to murder the civilians inside before doing so, am I reading this right?
>>22848166Anon...tensions between the Federation and Zeon had been rising for years. Anyone claiming the Federation were unprepared or unaware is just ignorant. The Federation had geopolitically isolated Side 3. The Federation was able to get all other Sides to align with the Federation. Any government worth their salt would be prepared for such a conflict to emerge and have their military forces ready.
>>22848197They expected having to stamp down a separatist rebellion, what they did not expect is Zeon deploying wunderwaffe like mobile suits.
>>22845221this zesty boy killed so many earthnoid subhumans...
>>22848216don't forget all of the gaza pilots
>>22848221>>22848166>Zeon launched surprise attacks all over the Earth Sphere a few seconds after declaring war on the Federation before they could mobilize their own forces,So you admit Zeon attacked the Federation before they could mobilize their forces, which would confirm the attacks were not unprompted, and undermine your chief arrangement.Also as >>22848197 pointed out, the Federation's immediate response to Zeon's independence was to isolate, intimidate and cripple through economic sanctions and building up their own military. Going by your own sources, it was the Federation that started the initial arms race, launching the '60s Armament Reinforcement Plan in 0060, a year before they initiated an embargo on Side 3, culminating in a saber rattling navel review in 0064. It was during this time that Side 3 had to elevate their self defense force to a full fledged military. And then the Federation pushed for the '70s Armament Reinforcement Plan which produced the Salamis-class cruiser and Magellan-class battleship in 0070. >am I reading this right?I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy where you cry over Zeon's tactics to cripple the Federation's initial response by removing the Federation Sides that were a direct threat to Side 3. Only to have no problem with the Federation using another Side they claimed to be protecting as a human shield and get it destroyed. Again, to remind you, since you're ignoring it. MS IGLOO showed the Federation fleet moving through the colony cluster to engage Zeon and the battle started well away from the colonies. That means the Federation had to intentionally flee back to the colonies of Side 5 and use them as shields for them to be destroyed.
>>22847902>>22849428>>22849431>Black knight has returned I absolutely missed you, the doms are reunited
>>22847902god you're so full of shit, just actively ignoring official materials and making up entire fanfics
>>22849428>So you admit Zeon attacked the Federation before they could mobilize their forcesDifferent anon here. Federation forces were already mobilized. Large Federation Fleets were stationed at each Colony and they were on alert. They just got their asses kicked by Zeon.
>>22849471You have ONE old databook from DECADES ago. Every single anime and manga made since then goes against what was written in that outdated book. When are you going to learn and accept that?
>>22849714said databook was written by people working on the show and is the foundation of the entire setting, including all later manga and anime
>>22849732Wrong. Dead wrong. The foundation of the setting was TOMINO'S 0079 Mobile Suit Gundam ANIME. That ANIME set the stage for everyone. Not some databook. Tomino didn't give af about the databooks. He didn't care and didn't want to be involved in them.
>>22849749you really just live in your own little world don't yahttps://www.ultimatemark.com/gundam/archive/gundamcentury.html
>>22849758Is this supposed to be a comeback? I don't see the name Tomino credited anywhere in your link.
>>22849776fucking hell
>>22811639Whatever this is.... It's sex. >>22818223Fed colors? Why anon? Who hurt you? >>22827803Awesome but doing too much. Low key.
>>22849732Regardless of who wrote the databook, it's been superceded by later media. What part of this aren't your understanding?I don't run around with a Western Marvel comics databook from 1982 and tell everyone decades later they are wrong in debates. If you like this one specific Gundam databook, then that's fine...but consider it more of a "time capsule" of the era it was made.
dommy thicc
>>22849815actually illiterate
>>22849846>actually illiterateOh I see. You are that one anon that just writes low effort posts as bait. Not worth responding to.
>>22849845>He think that's thicc enoughL E L
If Doms were this amazing in space, then how the heck did Zeon lose? I've never seen a GM move like this. GMs are almost always getting their butt kicked. It just doesn't add up. Doms are way better.
>>22850125This is also one of the best aces of the war. The average Rick Dom pilot did not have such skills, to say nothing of the students pressed into service.Also watch MS IGLOO to see GMs move like that.
>>22850131>Also watch MS IGLOO to see GMs move like that.Lmao no.
>>22850125Rick Doms and Gelgoogs piloted by child noobs sent out to go die in waves? yeah, no, you have no idea what you are talking about.
>>22850131>>22850653Would Zeon stand a better chance during the tail end of the OYW if all those skilled veterans that got killed suddenly came back alive and well?
>>22850676The skilled Veterans were alive. They were stationed at Solomon Base. Since Solomon was the front line Asteroid base of Zeon. Then the Federation hit the base with the Solar Ray and killed like 75% of all veteran troops.
>>22849544Honest question, what are you sourcing that the Federation was prepared for Zeon's initial attack for the One Week Battle? Since for the most part, Zeon took the Federation garrisons at Side 1, 2, and 4 completely off guard before they had a chance to organize a defense or counter attack. This is why they were able to take the neighboring hostile Sides easily with minimal loses, and not locations on the far side of the Earth, like Luna II which would have a chance to marshal their forces.And even if you cite Origin, it would be a stretch to call it being mobilized since all Zeon faced were local defense forces for the Sides using outdated ships, and the local Federation Moon defense forces of Granada and Von Braun. At best, you could say the Federation was prepared with Tianem's 4th fleet during Operation British, and even that gets heavily re-enforced by Jaburo before Loum to where they take the Zeon fleet head on and win in ship to ship combat.>>22850125That's Anavel Gato, arguably one of the greatest old type aces in UC. This is apocryphal, but I believe in Encounters in Space, Amuro fights Gato at Solomon, and even with magnetic coating upgrade and Newtype hax, Amuro can only fight Gato to draw and says if the battle went on longer, he would have lost.Regardless, it's just a classic case of a good pilot being behind the controls of the mobile suit.
>>22850676You mean if Zeon suddenly magicked up all their collective casualties and collateral losses? Shit every army would win their battles if they could do that. Just bring out an immortal causality immune fighting force. Do you have any idea how silly that sounds?
>>22851026>Since for the most part, Zeon took the Federation garrisons at Side 1, 2, and 4 completely off guard before they had a chance to organize a defense or counter attack.I am not that poster you are replying to but the real question you should be asking is how the Federation got taken off guard considering the growing tensions between Zeon and the Federation. It's not like fleets of Zeon ships could just magically fly up next to every single Side without being noticed and wait there for an ambush while Federation ships sat in dock doing nothing.
>>22850676They'd inflict more losses on the Federation, certainly, but nowhere near enough to change anything.Zeon lost as soon as GMs started deploying, nothing could have changed things at that point.
>>22851589Minovsky Particles bro.
>>22851599I'd argue the opposite. The GM only bought the Federation breathing room because the writers gimped Zeon....despite Zeon having more MS factories.
>>22851616That doesn't mean anything. Minovsky Particles don't give you magic stealth power. In fact, if Minovsky Particles were floating around then the Federation would be sending out tons of patrols to make sure they weren't taken by surprise.
>>22851623you'd argue out of your ass then
>>22851589 Because the Zeon warships began their actual attack only three seconds after the declaration of war, this later became known as the "Three Second Declaration."Zeon space warships, which had been carefully positioned for this occasion, launched a surprise attack on the Federation patrol fleets orbiting the Earth. Meanwhile, mobile fleets based around the precious mobile suits bared their fangs against Sides 1, 2, and 4. These colonies were Zeon's true targets.The only reason for the attack on these unarmed and innocent colonies was a show of force aimed at the Federation Forces. It also served to deprive the Federation Forces of strongholds. Because those who supported Zeon had already emigrated to Side 3, the Zeon side concluded that this posed no risk of antagonizing anti-Earth Federation space colonists.Because most of the garrison forces at the Sides were taken by surprise, they were wiped out before they could prepare adequate defenses.The frontline soldiers were thrown into confusion by their first sight of mobile suits, and they had no way of coping.With nothing to hinder them, the "one-eyed giants" of Zeon's mobile suit forces used bazookas with thermonuclear warheads to indiscriminately destroy the colonies. Then, in order to massacre the civilians inside the colonies, they introduced large quantities of a nerve gas called "G3." This terrible gas was colorless and odorless, and could cause death just by adhering to the skin. This was used inside the airtight spaces of the colonies.The ordinary soldiers who connected the G3 tanks to the colonies, however, were told only that it was "a nonlethal tear gas."The Federation Forces were unable to respond immediately to this violence. Communications with the Sides had been cut off by Minovsky particles (deployed by Zeon, of course), and by the time contact was reestablished through methods such as microwave communication, the inhabitants of the colonies had already been exterminated.
>>22851634Tomino made Minovsky Particles to bring things back to World War 2 levels of technology. In the 1970s, long range missiles and long range communication were already being used. That would ruin the the setting of Gundam. So M particles were invented. To force battles to be close range ship to ship. And made instant long range communications not possible like in WW2. During World War 2, lots of combat air patrols were used.
>>22851623Anon, Earth is fucking huge and Feddies are so entrenched they needed to drop a colony to take out one of those entrenched bases which still got back up and operational. You keep trying to say Zeon was nerfed when the entire point of them losing was that they did not have the logistics to catch up for even basic bitch problems like "how do we cut off feddies from entering space permanently?". This is the part you refuse to accept because you see them and their tiny asteroid as being equal in scale to the entire landmass worth of humans on Earth.
>>22851659>Because the Zeon warships began their actual attack only three seconds after the declaration of war, this later became known as the "Three Second Declaration." Attack with what? Ship Beam weapons? And how did Zeon ships get close enough without being spotted? There were 6 Sides.>Zeon space warships, which had been carefully positioned for this occasion, launched a surprise attack on the Federation patrol fleets orbiting the Earth. Again, how? There were 6 Sides. There's no way to surprise ALL of them without getting spotted. >Because most of the garrison forces at the Sides were taken by surprise, they were wiped out before they could prepare adequate defenses. >The frontline soldiers were thrown into confusion by their first sight of mobile suits, and they had no way of coping. This doesn't make sense. They ARE the defenses. There's nothing to "prepare". Salamis ships, Magellan ships, and fighters for space. Infantry and tanks for ground combat. Plus fortified positions and bases inside the colony. The Federation had 10 years fortifying themselves inside Colonies.>With nothing to hinder them, the "one-eyed giants" of Zeon's mobile suit forces used bazookas with thermonuclear warheads to indiscriminately destroy the colonies.And the Federation magically didn't have any nukes for themselves to use against Zeon? >The Federation Forces were unable to respond immediately to this violence. Communications with the Sides had been cut off by Minovsky particlesBut they've known about Minovsky Particles for decades. The Federation has built their entire military structure around Minovsky Particles existing. They already have tech and procedures to deal with it.
>>22851666Only 1 base was entrenched. That was Jaburo. Zeon took everything else of importance. You don't get that.
>>22851666you are schizophrenic
>>22851671entrenchment =/= being undergroundIt is an idiom that comes from trench warfare jargon that essentially means they double down and reinforce their defenses. Zeon had no means to deal with these bases that was not nukes with the sole exception of Jaburo because even nukes were beyond their means.
>>22851679What are you talking about? Zeon took almost every base the Federation on Earth had except Jaburo.
>>22851659How could Zeon ships use nuclear missiles with Minovsky Particles blocking long range guidance systems and communications?
>>22851683Jaburo was their HQ, it was suppossed to be a decapitation strike of their leadership. I wouldn't blame you for believing that though because everyone and their dog decided every Feddie base must have the same crippling weakness of casually walking through the door.
>>22851688Jaburo survived because it was buried deep inside the Amazon jungle and buried beneath a few miles of solid rock. Plus the Federation added a ton of anti-air guns and missiles everywhere. Almost every other Federation base on the surface fell because mobile suits could smash their defenses.
>>22851715No they only took over California and Europe, they destroyed everything else outright because they couldn't take hold of them. Africa and Oceania were to build their own bases and infrastructure since Feddies weren't there. It doesn't make any sense for Zeon to put them on the back foot since Feddies just went guerilla on their asses and proved unable to be rooted out.
>>22851669>The Federation has built their entire military structure around Minovsky Particles existing. They already have tech and procedures to deal with it.No.
>>22851740>they destroyed everything else outrightNo anon. Sure they destroyed a few but Zeon largely took over existing infrastructure and bases. Then enhanced it further with even more defenses and facilities for mobile suits.
>>22851789Asia and all but twenty bases in California is not "a few", they hit Asia before proper Earthbound logistics and basically raided and ransacked bases westward from their starting point. Oceania and Africa are built from the ground up.
>>22851746Your Concession is accepted. I know your mad but that's OK. It will pass.
>>22851818Now you are shifting your argument and goal posts.The argument isn't "Did Zeon destroy Federation bases?"The argument is "How did the Federation beat Zeon at producing mobile suits when Zeon controlled most of the surface factories on Earth (and destroyed the ones the couldn't hold on to) and factories on the Moon and in Space? The Federation only had Jaburo which is much smaller industrially compared to the total of what Zeon had."Every argument you say falls apart because it doesn't address the core problem
>>22851875Yep. I noticed the same pattern with these troll anons. One person asks an interesting question but gets troll answers. >How did Zeon lose in production when they had so much more than the Feds?>Cuz Jaburo bruh>What? That doesn't make sense. Zeon had California Base, the Entire Moon City of Granada, Solomon, A Baou Que Asteroid Factory, and all of Zeon's home colonies. That's roughly 50 times what The Feds have for production!>databook says Jaburo better. Lmao>That doesn't make sense!>eat a dick Zeon wanker. Feds won. Zeon lost. Lalalala
>>22851875My goal was to argue with you about Feddie presence on Earth. Not. That. Anon. So fuck off with that shit.
>>22851885The question's real answer is simple.Zeon only established themselves in less then a year and it is impossible to move their entire industrial economy within that time because they decided that doing a surprise attack even their sympathizers didn't foresee was the best plan. Therefore they decided to hijack the infrastructure of the Feddies and only build what they needed within that time as an alternative. Then pull pretty much all their forces to decapitate Jaburo (or most of them now thanks to extended canon). Effectively opening themselves up to losing all their gains. The Feddies didn't build they simply took back what they already had or Zeon made.The extended canon makes the whole thing ridiculous with it turning into some grand singular clash across the whole of space when the central problem with Zeon is that they basically blitzed Earth and hoped a decapitation strike on Jaburo would work.
>>22851901Not that anon but if we're being realistic then Zeon should have won the war long ago. No nation or its people has ever suffered such a loss of territory in recorded history and ever made a come back.
>>22852252If we were being realistic then Zeon would never have been a threat in the first place, and the narrative requires invoking multiple magical devices to allow them to be a threat, between mobile suits being magically better at every aspect of warfare than every other platform and minovsky particles. As well as making the Federation inhumanely passive in dealing with Zeon for literal decades despite at least some knowledge they were gearing up for war; even after Zeon Zum Deikun's actual rebellion they basically did nothing.
>>22851589There's a few things to remember, the biggest one is that people will enjoy 20/20 hindsight for this sitution where one can go 'Of course Zeon was going to attack...' When you need to analyze things from the moment instead.Where even if tensions are high, most people almost never expect war to break out, until it finally does, since the Federation didn't know about the attack, until it happened. Also a lot of people apply terrestrial battle field logic to the One Week Battle. Like the Federation had the equivalent of a Maginot Line in space prepared and Zeon just ran roughshod over it. The biggest thing to remember is space operates from a 360 sphere and Zeon doesn't have to make a direct beeline for their targets from Side 3, so there are plenty of options for Zeon to maneuver their forces to attack Side 1, 2, 4 and the moon while catching the Federation completely unaware to take them out in dock or before they could set up a proper defense. Like in Origin where you see the Federation forces on the moon trying to retreat from Ganada and then regroup at Van Braun in an attempt to fight Zeon, but still get wiped out.On a separate note, the claim that NBC's (Nuclear, Biological and Chemical) weapons were all used during the One Week Battle is becoming more and more disputed. Since we've never seen much in the way of biological weapons being used at all. Chemical weapons in the form of G3 appears to have been only used on Island Iffish for Operation British, with a vast majority of the colonies being rendered uninhabitable from mega particle cannon barrages by the Zeon fleets, and even nuclear weapons are getting more and more disputed since the later depictions of Loum show Zeon and Federation forces both using only conventional arms.And that's probably for the better given early guides said the Zaku II C was equipped with nuclear bazookas and the Zaku that fired it would get destroyed in the nuclear blast of their own shot.
>>22852252They also never lost that territory to what amounts to a small band of Mongolian raiders from the mountains. No I don't mean Genghis Khan just an ordinary small band.
>>22852408I could accept Zeon successfully ambushing one or MAYBE two Sides. But ambushing FOUR Sides AND the Moon? All without being detected and taking the Federation by complete surprise? I don't buy it. Especially the Moon cities. You can only Assault them from above. So no 360 degree trickery can be used there. Are you sure the truth isn't that the Federation was just was terrible at space warfare, and got their butts kicked? We have many real life examples of smaller Navies defeating larger Navies due to superior commanders, tactics and strategy.
>>22852533Remember how Russia started the war with Ukraine by just casually crossing the border? That was possible because of normalcy bias.
>>22852577Ukraine's Government later said they were aware of Russia advancing (due to satellite monitoring) but didn't inform the public because of the mass panic it would create. The Ukraine military wanted to keep the roads clear to be able to deploy their military. Not have the roads clogged with fleeing Civilians.
>>22852584>later saidWartime propaganda to save face because they lost a lot of very important air force assets from a bad assumption of how the war would start. No matter how badly Russia fucked up, you are only now seeing them lose things like ammo depots at a rapid pace. Ukraine is quite literally pyrrhic victory incarnate.
>>22852533You're making the flawed assumption that Zeon sent all their forces to one Side at a time and didn't split their forces up into 4 different attack groups to do a simultaneous assault. (Attacking Side 1, 2, 4 and the moon.) Or assuming the Federation had Battle of Loum sized forces at each side when that only happened when Jaburo and Luna II were scrambling all their reserve ships out.And as for the moon, as another anon pointed out, normalcy bias. Say the local Feddie garrison did see a fleet of 11 Musai approaching Granada. They wouldn't know their intentions and and wouldn't think of firing on them because that would be a sure fire way to start a war. Sure it would have been the right call, but as I said before, hindsight is 20/20.
>>22852577I don't actually, because what I remember is Russia pretty openly amassing it's military along Ukraine's border as politicians, newspapers etc. around the world talked about Russia getting ready to invade, for days, maybe even weeks beforehand, diplomates being in overdrive trying to prevent what everyone could see coming etc. The Russian invasion of Ukraine was about as unexpected as the Russian annexation of Crimes; which, again, people were openly discussing for some time beforehand because Russia was really being stealthy about it's intentions. Shit, they even released demands before the annexation, to the tune of "Ukraine must never be allowed to join NATO, or else...".Russia was not remotely stealthy or discreet about any of it, because being visible was the point. They were a major military superpower with nuclear weapons, and Putin knows no one wants to fight Russia if they can avoid it given the brinkmanship it inevitably involves.
>>22853072Exactly, they were not hiding their intentions at all but nobody had preparations to actually stop their blitzkrieg no matter how much Ukraine would like to present their 180 iq move of leaving their vital air forces vulnerable as a master plan. That is the pitfall of normalcy bias even though the writing is fresh right on the wall since there is always writing on the wall you just dismiss it or make false assumptions.
>>22853080I wouldn't call that normalcy bias though, and it seems more an abundance (possibly over abundance) of caution because, again, no one wants to start a war with a nuclear superpower. Not even other nuclear superpowers. Ukraine themselves were immediately ready to engage in defensive action and guerilla warfare, and that readiness dragged a conflict most thought would last days for over 18 months at this point. Sanctions and arms supply also fell in to place very quickly. No other nation wants to directly support Ukraine though, because no one wants to make the guy with nuclear missiles anxious. And no amount of preparation time or warning is going to make that less the case.At most you could say that Ukraine wasn't ready after Russia seized Crimea in 2014, but even putting aside that foreign powers fell into support quickly at the time, the Ukraine itself had just had a popular overthrow of a Russian sympathizing autocrat, so it's not really a shock a whole new government wasn't exactly on the ball to gear up for a seizure that took place a few weeks later.
>>22853348Do not forget, even the Russians were surprised by their own move as they were genuinely just doing their usual on a training exercise as ordered and sold their own fuel to the Ukrainians for vodka. Although you may be correct that normalcy bias may not be the technically correct term, however both in schooling and in life I have never heard of any other term for someone underestimating or dismissing an approaching danger they know of purely because everything is still normal.Except the joke two more weeks.
>>22849448Good to see Kasperl is still around.I really need to update my Dom image collection.
