I love how the mind control shit wasn't even needed by Orphee, Lacus was just a retard in every single scene in the movie and has zero loyalty to Kira.

>>22817365
Lol, I know that some people here don't like SEED, but Lacus basically tells Orphee that she don't care a shit about him after he kidnap her, even with all the mind control.

>>22815772
I dunno it seems pretty simple to analyze
Fukuda wanted to direct a hentai

>>22817365
Damn, so you paid like zero attention to what was going on, huh?

>>22817373
You're definitely right. Its hilarious watching these morons present such low IQ takes about a movie that wasn't even that complex in the first place.

>>22817383
It's so silly and out of the blue, it's hard not to read it as fetish material, or perhaps sheer desperation on the part of the author, trying to tell a story about a rift between Kira and Lacus in an action movie format. Such a story could've worked in a more low key, focused movie, but it's been 20 years, everyone wants to see their favorite characters again, and this is Gundam Seed. Explosions and action and high minded ideals at the end of a superweapon is sort of the point.

>>22815772
You don't even need to critically scrutinize it, the movie itself tells you pretty clear these 2 are genetically designed to attract each other. Once they explain this to her she understands and promptly rejects her own genes, which has been a recurring thing since the first series with Kira rejecting his role as ultimate coordinator.

I did find it hilarious that it gave us Kira going full Eren, before Athrun knocked some sense into him.

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>>22815772
Is seed freedom an anti DEI agenda? Destiny plan looks like metaphor for wokism by pushing advanced person(上級国民) like blacks,muslims,LGBT/coordinators, negating human's insticnt and desire, forcing the agenda with violence. Bamco turned into durandal themself ironically. Fukuda will be very very unhappy about that. Since Fukuda is anti-woke netouyo guy.

>>22817452
Anon, I am going to tell you something you're not going to want to here, but need to: Get OFF the fucking internet. Completely. For like 6 months. Buy a dumb phone and use it, and keep your computer off except to check email.

>>22817452
Lacus_bikini.png

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>>22817459
>>22817456
Bout this. I think Lacus would not like bikini and prefer one piece more, while Cagali and Luna would like bikinis.

>>22817456
Was Fukuda not that anti-woke either?

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>>22817459

>>22817464
He called Taiwan a country, woke as it gets

>>22817484
lol

>>22817484
Was he on fujo in seed too?

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Anyone like Gold Rush?

>>22817365
Why did you bump this thread when it was clear nobody wanted to post on it?

>>22817484
Will Fukuda support or against DEI?

>>22817452
CE timeline is anti DEI.
Reminder that Dearka got demoted for racemixing

>>22817365
Why didnt he mind-controlling when he rape?

>>22817517
Cross Angie’s main villain is racism

>>22817900
For consorting with ugly Earthlings who poop. En taro Patrick, Na adan Zaft, Korshala Nicol.(Zaft dialect-for Partrick, we stand as Zaft, until we meet with Nicol). How did Milly understand Zaft alien's language?

>>22817932
Was Fukuda not that Netouyo actually?

>>22817986
Fukui is the one who wrote Gundam Unicorn, Fukuda's low-key a leftist

>>22818001
Both are inspired by Tomino.

>>22818002
And Unicorn becomes anti-war by accident

>>22817373
Yeah, I did watch the movie.
Lacus spends the whole second half of the movie saying she loves Kira in every single scene she's in, it's a shame she acts like a complete retard in her stay at Foundation and nobody seems to call her out for it.

>>22817418
She is so "genetically attracted" to Orphee that the first time she sees his face she gets scared and is normal in every interaction with him outside of the 3 resonance scenes where she is a stuttering idiot and Orphee is in total control.
Also, you can't "reject your genes" and it's not comparable to Kira being the Ultimate Coordinator, that just means Kira has the highest potential out of every human and if he set his mind on something he will do it at the highest level possible.

>>22817365
>>22817373
Another anon summarized it better but I think the issue is less that she's not loyal (she is, the movie makes that claer) and more that in the first half she just acts retardedly naive, spending time alone and dancing with this guy just to NTR tease the audience and kira. You'd think someone with more intelligence would know better than to do something like that ,even if completely loyal.

>>22817464
>>22817484
>>22817517
>>22818001
brainworms

>>22818081
Everyone knows that Lacus is loyal to Kira, let me be clear that when I'm saying she is not loyal I'm referring to Lacus from the movie, who is a completely different character that only shares her design with Lacus from
the series.

Dancing with someone else in front of your lover when there's no reason to (she shouldn't be in that situation in the first place seeing as she's the head of Compass and not a princess), going to have a private talk with the same man and accepting a single rose, run away when your lover is defending you from someone accusing you of cheating on him are all signs of Lacus not being loyal to Kira.

Just saying "the man I love is not you" or having a confession scene is useless if the actions of the characters don't show they are in love. Every single scene in Destiny showed the two were in love, a love scene after 20 years is redundant and only made to appeal to the 30 years old housewives who couldn't care less about the characters and plot and just want to see people kiss.

>>22818089
>30 years old housewives

You have to ne over 18 to post here.

>>22818089
It's just bad writing. They wanted to have some tension for both audience and Kira so they teased some gay ntr shit in the first half and then the second half she refuses to betray kira even under threat of torture, death, etc.

They just wrote her to be retarded in the first half to make drama happen.

>>22818120
I know, that's my point. It just makes Lacus look bad, the fact that nobody calls her out for her behaviour is insane.
Lacus herself doesn't think she is doing anything wrong because the first thing she does is cook some onigiri like she's autistic.

>>22818133
I think it's one of those "stupid writer doesn't understand how to write smart people" moments.

Lacus supposed to be charismatic, savvy, able to win hearts and mind. So of course in order to make the plot happen via MISUNDERSTANDINGS she has to act like an autistic, naive, retard who simply doesn't understand why spending time alone with another man who obviously has the hots for her could possibly be misconstrued.

>>22818120
>They just wrote her to be retarded in the first half to make drama happen.
Unfortunately this is extremely on brand for the Cosmic Era.

>>22818144
What I'm getting at here basically is I don't really see her as being written to be disloyal in the movie, more written to be a pure hearted autistic idiot in order to make plot happen.

>>22818148
How is Lacus running away after Kira defends her from Agnes' insults not disloyal?
How is accepting a single rose in a private conversation from a man who offered you a matching dress not disloyal?

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Kira NTR'd Sai way back in SEED. Embryo Jr. wouldn't even have stood a chance if Kira was allowed to be a bit of a dick again. Not that he stood at chance to begin with. Homeboy was so bad at his NTR guy routine that he couldn't even score with mind control powers on his side.

>>22818133
>nobody calls her out for her behaviour is insane.

Sounds consistent with Destiny

>>22818153
Like I said, written as pure unbelievable autism and white dwarf level denseness. She literally acts as if she does not comprehend how those count as disloyal or even just being easily misconstrued.

Nor does anyone else, it's just a big dumb MISUNDERSTANDING that happens to make gay fake drama before and then is brushed aside so we can get to the actual funny part of the movie.

>>22818174
Other than not bringing backup when confronting Meer (Lacus fucking had a hit squad in case Athrun tried something at the White Symphony in SEED), what do you think she should be called out for in Destiny?

>>22818001
Was Destiny plan in seed not similar to DEI/ESG? I thought Hari Juggernaut as leftist who supports ESG.

>>22817900
Was DP opposite to DEI ironically?

>>22817900
It's for the best. He'll marry Yzak and make the finest test tube baby with him.

>>22817496
Those guys better give us a Freedom doujin, featuring Shura getting an aneurysm from witnessing Athrun dicking down Cagalli, and Orphee being mindbroken by Kira declaring the large amounts of kinky shit he does with Lacus

i am pirate captain now

>>22818167
>he couldn't even score with mind control powers on his side.
It gets even worse for Orphee considering the novel states that Lacus was genetically built for his dick, and was genetically meant to be attracted to him, but Lacus chose the genetic failure his mom kept seething about over him.

Accord "men" just can't compete. But, I love Fukuda's fascination with dudes like Orphee and Embryo. I hope we get a good interview about how intertwined Cross Ange and SEED Freedom are as far as their productions go.

>>22815772
>NTR
I don't know what that means because I'm not a forever alone virgin. Don't you retards ever feel embarrassed for talking like this?

They used NTR because Japs really like NTR. That's all.

>>22817418
>Kira rejecting his role as ultimate coordinator.
Anon? He spends his life using his ultimate coordinator power to get what he wants by shooting anyone who disagrees

>>22818448
He’s being manipulated by Lacus.

>>22818471
>Lacus (((Klein)))

>>22818396
Somehow, YOU are the biggest loser in a SEED thread

>>22815772
why is this fetish actually mainstream in Japan now

SEED is a euphemism for CUM

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>>22815772
>SEED is one letter short of SNEED (formerly CHUCK)
>has a cuck shit plotline
lmao

>>22819975
It's been around for years. I guess fat otakus love to self-insert as the fat guy stealing girls or girls find it hot. Apparently, women love Redo of Healer more than men.

>>22815772
Freedom if written by Hollywood

>Kira very explicitly kills normal grunt enemies in comical ways and relishes the carnage
>Lacus and Orphee actually fuck no mindcontrol involved she just cheats on him
>end of the movie Lacus tells Kira to spare Orphee because she loves him so he does
>lesbian sex scene between Luna and Hilda
>awkward throwaway joke that Luna pegs Shinn
>Girl boss moment where Cagali twerks in a pantsuit
>Athrun is made into a dudes rock loser uncle drunk type character

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>>22815772
The guy got off on baiting after Cross Ange and wanted to do more like it.That's all.

>>22821628
>Lacus and Orphee actually fuck no mindcontrol involved she just cheats on him
>end of the movie Lacus tells Kira to spare Orphee because she loves him so he does

Lacus actually cheated on Kira without mindcontrol being involved and still tries to save Orphee even after knowing he is a genocidal maniac who tried to rape her 10 minutes before.

>>22821628
You left out the much needed cameo by Barkhad Abdi during the Millennium takeover.

>>22817900
How in the fuck is it anti DEI when we've got Athrun who wants to racemix with Cagalli?

>>22822858
Was Destiny plan actually opposite to DEI?

>>22819975
>mainstream
Like a lot of other fetishes, it's mainly made up of gigaconsumers. It's the fetish version of 10 percent of the audience consuming 90% of the product.
>>22820444
>women love Redo of Healer more than men
I've also heard that's probably bullshit. It wouldn't shock me much either way, but I do notice I hear about it a lot more than I actually see it.

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Was this retard really trying to save someone who tried to rape her and runs an authoritarian state?

>>22822858
Will Kira Yamato support wokism/DEI?

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Left, right, or middle?

>>22824009
me bottom right

>>22824009
Crab

>>22824056
Which one?

>>22823949
Will Kira be pro wokism/DEI?

>>22824097
It's over... Orb has fallen...

>>22824099
Cagalli marrying Athrun is a bad thing?

>>22824116
She'd marry a retard who left her alone at her lowest point in her career, joined an opposing military force and stayed in it even after knowing Durandal tried to kill Lacus, what do you think?

>>22824116
Assrun wearing dress. This is the problem.

>>22824155
Maybe it's payback for the time he thought about her naked.

>>22824116
Nope. Assrun being drag queen is bad.

>>22824405
Athrun is of Japanese descent. He can't help it. Crossdressing is in his blood.

>>22824411
I thought Athrun as Korean due to his BTS hairstyle, and loving kicking.

>>22821628
Can't fuck Athrun up any more than Destiny did.

>>22821628
better than what we got

>>22827400
I prefer schizo Athrun from Destiny over coomer Athrun from Freedom.

>>22827481
I don't because schizo Athrun is only due to being shackled hard by the bad writing. Freedom Athrun is what he was really supposed to be.

>>22827667
What is Freedom Athrun even supposed to be? A walking infodump that knows everything about everyone and can't fail at anything?

>>22827889
He fails at escaping the friend zone.

>>22821628
>Lacus and Orphee actually fuck no mindcontrol involved she just cheats on him
>end of the movie Lacus tells Kira to spare Orphee because she loves him so he does
That's actually fine. Just like Scott Summers clearly has a thing for psychic women, Kira has a thing for women engaged to other people.

>>22817452
>>22817900
What's with the culture war shit infesting /m/?

>>22828563

Little to no willpower from the moderators.

>>22828563
It's literally one guy who seems to have actual brain problems. Also >>22828567

>>22820006
Pure Chicanery!

I read somewhere that Kira finds out that Flay had been manipulating him in the bonus material for ‘Freedom’. Any source for this?

>>22829466
I thought he already knew or had an idea of it.

>>22829466
How could he possibly know? Only Flay knew that and she took it to death with her

>>22831445
>>22831602
Apparently there was bonus material? I don't know, I was hoping someone here might know.

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Happy Birthday!

>>22818147
It was never this bad. Freedom was just shit

>>22833020
>It was never this bad

Yes it was. Freedom is just the time they fucked with Kira and Lacus's characters for needless drama instead of the other characters.

>>22833077
Nope. Destiny messed up Cagalli but the rest were fine. You could make an argument for Athrun but Durandal had him wrapped around his finger.

>>22833489
You're just noticing it now because this time it was your favs that got beat with the stupid stick.

I just picked up the immortal justice gunpla because it looked cool.
You mean to tell me that I bought a 1/144 scale vehicle for NTR?

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>>22815772
Wait so that's NOT Cagali?

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>>22833757
No, this is.

>>22815772
I thought it was Lacus x Cagalli yuri. I'm disappointed.

Meer > Lacus
But even then that Cagalli lookalike should have used the power of cock instead of some poorly explained mind control. Or at least used a smartphone to enhanced his mind controlling powers.

>>22833677
afraid so

>>22833677
It's piloted by shinn, is it considered ntr to pilot someone else's signature suit line?

>>22837565
Only if it's involuntary.

>>22837603
Does Athrun care that Shinn was piloting a Justice?

>>22837913
I don't think Athrun really cares about Shinn at all.

>>22833489
Dude, Athrun is unironically responsible for everything bad that happens in Destiny, to the point that he could be argued to be as responsible as Durandal himself. I've never seen ANYONE be as utterly retarded to his own and everyone else's detriment the way Athrun was. If there were a coconut in Athrun's place throughout the entirety of the plot, Shinn's likelihood of coming to realize Durandal is evil and not joining up with him goes UP.

>>22838006
Did he ever? Maybe he used to, at least enough to not kill him during the final battle.

>>22837913
Considering he was secretly piloting a nuclear powered Justice while Shinn was lumped with a watered down battery powered Justice, probably not. If anything, Athrun actually got suit cucked by Lacus during the five minutes she was piloting IJ to deliver it to Earth.

>>22834585
All lulzing aside this reminds me of /m/en who saw the preview chirashi for Promare and then posted WTF I THOUGHT THEY WERE A BOY AND GIRL COUPLE HOW THE FUCK ISN'T THAT A CHICK in the movie thread from the first night. It was a line-trap syndrome.

>>22837913
>Athrun loses his Gundam
>Kira loses his chick

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>>22838964
I love how that one instant was enough to warrant her being playable in the Dynasty Warriors games.

>>22832205
I mean, TV Tropes claims they have it. Maybe it’s in the novelization of Freedom?

>>22841746
>Listening to TV Tropes

>>22841746
TVTropes thinks Rau is in love with Lacus.

>>22841746
>>22841844
TV Tropes thinks a bunch of things are not true.

>>22841746
TVTropes are a bunch of no-fun allowed pansies. They've already removed various pages talking about IRL stuff, or drinking game results. Hell, they've completely gutted out the 4chan page into being a shell of its former self.

>>22841746
>TV Tropes

>>22842115
>IRL stuff, or drinking game results
Much as I enjoy shitting on them (and I do), the former seems like it's just going to devolve into flamewars and the hell's up with drinking game results? How was that relevant there at all?

>>22841768
>>22841844
>>22842050
>>22842115
>>22842163
>>22842185
Okay, but I still need to know: was it in the novelization or no?

>>22843664
No, it's not. Like people said, it's basically an impossible thing for anyone to find out because nobody realized Flay's plan and she died.

>>22842185
Some of the IRL stuff they deleted talked about cool cars, planes, or alcoholic drinks that are too potent. From what I've seen, the pages talking about IRL cars was deleted because one guy just said they're too common.
Also some pages have a drinking game section, such as the My Immortal page, where some users posted their results. Apparently that was deleted because some jannies whined that it would encourage drinking

>>22845291
Yeah, that makes sense.

>>22838305
He kind of sort of was fond of him enough to feel bad for him and obviously spared his life. I think he realized they're not really compatible as pals though

>>22838010
Yeah people seem to not notice this either because they think Schizo Athrun is funny or they just never liked the character anyway, but Athrun is supposed to be smarter than that and was hit with the stupid stick in order to keep Morosawa's lazy plot going.

>>22821659
Why is it always NTR porn scenarios for Elevens?

Movie just got rereleased in theaters. Won’t be long before we learn what the epilogue is.

>>22834590
...her own cock?

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Why is Immortal Justice gundam such a shitty MS?

>>22849333
Because it was just something for Shinn's ass to sit in until they brought back Destiny. Rising Freedom at least had to opening sequence that it needed to look cool and effective in. Immortal Justice had no hype scenes at all in the whole film because in the opening Kira cockblocks everyone else from doing anything.

why are retards always obsessed with calling any male/female interaction NTR

>>22847116
> Unspecified amount of weeks later
> Cagalli and Athrun going over what most people already suspected (people on both sides are getting heated, Foundation ended up killing the lull they mostly had at the beginning of the film)
> Kira and Lacus walk in ready to return to duty but they say they'll need everyone's help from now on.

Nothing exciting or anything we couldn't already guess, just them confirming the universe continues as everyone expected.

>>22850067
in the context of SEED Freedom there is 100% an NTR scenario at play

>>22849333
>Immortal Justice
>is destroyed
What was meant by this?

>>22850706
Don't forget Agnes will be back in COMPASS as if nothing happened.

>>22847116
>>22850706
https://youtu.be/m0kGEzbp8oc?si=TeaP_SLfeNoCIo19

>>22850706
Sauce? Everywhere I see says it’s just Kira and Lacus talking on the beach

>>22852485
he's talking out of his ass

>>22851893
>Heinlein made her slut suit and Lacus liked it

>>22852485
>>22853776

Yeah I just made that all up. I just wanted to see if the Tvtropes and wiki people would scramble to get it in as "official" like they did last time

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>>22854109

Gundam SEED JUSTICE final boss revealed:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5aChh_xD2Y

>>22849333
Do you ever think about the absolutely asinine names CE-era designers give their MS, and think maybe it connects to how people in that universe seem to just naturally become holier-than-thou preachy cunts?

>>22858472
Well, this is CE we're talking about. Kira, Lacus, and all of their allies will always be portrayed as right in every decision

Gundam Seed Freedom Astray Ch1 Spoil is outed. The Atlantic Fed must be broke after the second war that they have to sell Destroy Gundam to private ms collector. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3525rpYKGC4

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These corrections look so stupid.

>>22859506
I have a question. Are Seed beam shields just normal shield with an added beam shield function? Or are they delicate pieces of equipment that can only block stuff with the beam shield turned on? My friend says they can't block beams or sword hits with the beam shield turned off. I disagree since it's called beam shield. So can Strike Freedom's mini shields block attacks if they are turned off? Settle it please thank you

>>22859562
Strike Freedom as whole functions on Phase Shift armor. It can resist physical attacks. But once that mode is turned off, it will turn gray and extremely brittle. It can resist beam attacks to some extend, but not entirely.

>>22859574
Can the arm shield, without the beam part turned on, block swords like a normal shield?

>>22859604
Nah. It can block physical attacks and that's it.

>>22859574
I think anon is asking if Strike Freedom's arm forearm guards are the same as Destiny's mini-shield.

>>22861458
https://mangadex.org/title/f2a078df-e65f-40b8-b8c1-0d90bad2dc45/mobile-suit-gundam-seed-freedom-astray

>>22845470
So, should someone fix the TV Tropes entries?

there's one part of the movie that really triggers my autism and its the part where the saber clashes, i thought in CE the dicks couldn't touch

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>>22861999
You fell for a dumb rumor that a few fans made up.

>>22861841
>PedoTropes

>>22861458
Everytime I rewatch seed and Lacus does her peace talk stuff, I just flashback to that stargazer scene of that pilot getting literally shredded by a pack of Bucues.

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I am weird for genuinely feeling bad for Orphee even if he was a a really bad person? It wasn't like Iron Mask.
No I'm not named Ingrid

>>22861841
>fix the TV Tropes entries?
I think trying to fix something there would be swiftly undone by zealous retarded users

>>22867990
I dunno are you into incest? They are brother and sister.

>>22867990
I mean there's really nothing positive about him, he's an elitist racist asshole who wouldn't take no for an answer and killed a fuck ton of people on a crazy crusade so he could rule the world. He sometimes tries to make it sound noble, but if you look at his reactions when people shoot down his "logic" and when he breaks out these speeches it really looks like he doesn't actually mean any of it and is just BSing people with a sob story to try to get on Lacus's good side/get Kira to back off from him once he was losing. Unless you just are taken by his bishy looks there's really nothing sympathetic about him.

>>22859629
Then no. They're really just housings for the beam shields. They're Phase Shift protected but they're not actual shields, a beam rifle or saber will go right though them.

>>22869333
It's common for people to forgive characters no matter how heinous their actions are just because they're attractive. Why else is "Griffith did nothing wrong" a thing?

>>22867990
I will give Orphee credit. He didn't waver and he didn't fall for Kira's talking or Lacus' talking.

Orphee is like
>I don't care what you think. Your solution hasn't worked for 6 years. You have no real solutions. Don't give me this "love" crap. Humanity has tries to kill eachother with nukes and other weapons, and will continue to keep killing eachother even after you are gone. The Destiny plan is the only way to ensure all o humanity is stable and unified.

All Lacus and Kira could say was that we should "love eachother" as their only response.

Let's look at it from Orphee's point of view.

Imagine being raised to be a charismatic leader and super soldier. You study all of human history, language, and culture. The last 20 years have especially been the most destructive in human history. Nukes and other super weapons are now being used to kill billions of lives. You determine that the Destiny plan is humanity's last and best chance to stop all conflict. Humanity is going to kill themselves in a world war sooner or later.

Then the one person you thought would be your partner suddenly betrays you and talks about wanting to mate with a defective (from your POV) coordinator experiment. She then tries to ruin carefully laid plans and all she can say is "If we love eachother then everything will be okay!".

This Lacus woman has no actual plans. No policies. No plan for the economy or financial system. No suggestions for government. No suggestions on how to handle the poor or starving people of the world. Maybe if she actually said something smart you could talk with her and have a discussion, but all she says is that love will win. This Lacus woman also seems to hint that you should make love to your half sister Ingrid because love is important. What the hell is going on? Humanity is screwed unless you win.

I would be mad if I was Orphee too.

>>22869365
He should know Lacus half-assed about politics after knowing the joy being housewife since Destiny and only cameback because Durandal decoys

>>22869365
The problem is not only did Orphee fuck over their one serious chance to possibly stabilize things by crushing Blue Cosmos for good, but he also kills a fuck ton of people including almost everyone in his own country as an excuse to fake having the moral high ground, and seemingly plans to kill way more. And the second the Zaft coup guys fail he wants to waste Plant too. Which just gives them impression Orphee doesn't give a fuck about anyone but his mother and his small handful of even more super superhumans and only wants the Destiny Plan so he personally can rule over the plebs. Most of his speeches to Lacus are just attempts to manipulate her, which is clear by how he often changes his tune mid conversation if she's not taking his initial bait.

Orphee was just another lunatic CE produced.

>>22869450
>by crushing Blue Cosmos for good,
I doubt Blue Cosmos is gone for good. They are hurt but not gone.

>kills a fuck ton of people including almost everyone in his own country
Technically it was a Earth Alliance nuke. I doubt anyone is going to know the real truth.

>And the second the Zaft coup guys fail he wants to waste Plant too.
All the Coup did was show the unrest going on within plant. That's not going away with just a single failed Coup attempt. It wouldn't surprise me if Zaft descends into Civil war. Maybe even break apart into seperate colonies again or at least different factions.

>Orphee was just another lunatic CE produced.
You may not like Orphee as a character but he's not wrong. Humanity are animals and barbaric. They will kill themselves in nuclear fire if Team Lacus isn't there to stop them. And Team Lacus can't be around forever. Someone is eventually going to get lucky.

>>22869710
>Humanity are animals and barbaric
Well that Orphee nigga seems pretty animalistic and barbaric himself, with all the people he fucking kills.

>>22869751
You seem to missing something here. We aren't talking about morals. No one can prove the Black Knights did it. Team Kira has no proof.

As far as the world is concerned, the Federation nuked a country. The surviving Accords hijacked a space laser in retaliation, and teamed up with disgruntled Zaft forces.

From an ordinary citizen perspective, the Black Knights are justified in their response.

>>22869761
Yeah but we know. It's silly trying to rationalize him with humanity is le barbaric shtick when that nigga IS the murderous barbarian. The kind that fucks up humanity himself because of his gay ambitions. His type is the problem, not the solution.

>>22869365
>This Lacus woman has no actual plans
The problem with CE is that the narrative treats Kira and Lacus as the heroes of the setting, when really they're just the least worst option between different flavors of genocide. But on the flip side, the setting can't really tell further stories (or at least the stories Fukuda is capable of telling) if Kira and Lacus actually fix the fundamental issues with the CE Earth Sphere that lead to all these genocidal crazies getting power every other year.

>>22870163
SEED and Destiny make it clear that Kira and Lacus are only the least bad option, your argument is spot on when applied to FREEDOM though, which is a work that forgets everything about the themes and character arcs from the previous works.

>>22869761
>No one can prove the Black Knights did it. Team Kira has no proof.

AA saw them launching the nukes. Granted the ship was destroyed but if they relayed the data somewhere to a surviving computer (like say Mu's Murasame which escaped mostly intact) that's all the proof they need. Plus the fact that Foundation declared them all dead, but they showed up alive and well soon after would put Foundation's story in question. It's kind of telling that Aura and Orphee don't even try to swing the story in their favor once Compass is revealed to be alive and attack them, they just move straight to trying to kill everyone in opposition. And if Kira and Lacus need to vindicate themselves afterwards, there's always Orphee's crazy rants on SF's comm system. But really it seems like nobody bought Foundation's story to begin with, they just couldn't do anything because Foundation set themselves up to have the world by the balls thanks to Requiem and their fleet and threatened to kill anyone that made any movement that wasn't surrendering to them. There certainly wasn't anyone on Earth going "Poor Foundation, the Feds really screwed them they deserve to conquer us"

>>22869710
>All the Coup did was show the unrest going on within plant. That's not going away with just a single failed Coup attempt.

It might. The Coup died with such quick fanfare that it really didn't seem like that many people were on board, just a handful of Zaft guys who sucker punched everyone who were all killed or arrested. The coup wouldn't have lost powered immediately with a few words from the chairman and Yzak if a significant portion of Plant was on board with it

>>22849333
I think it's pretty cool... and I have the HG

>>22870328
Why are people even trying to call Compass over shit? Foundation =/= Durandal. Even their understanding of the Destiny plan could be further from what Durandal wanted it to be.

>>22870163
>>22870175

The biggest problem people had with Kira and Lacus in Destiny was that they preached that they were the heroes of the world going to save it from breaking out into warfare again, but only got off their asses to save the Orb Fleet the Orb mainland while have almost no concern for Plant getting Requeimed. And Orb's military itself showed willingness to defy Yuna for AA but went all out on wasting the Minerva. Which basically gave the impression that Kira Lacus and Orb talk about being the good guys who love the world and peace but only really care about their own and the rest of the planet and Plant can burn so long as their little island nation is unaffected.

At least Freedom shows them actually giving a shit about everyone else, although it still gives them the primary goal of protecting Orb since Foundation has a grudge against it thanks to Hibiki and insists on destroying the place. I'm really curious how things would go if the current big villain doesn't make the mistakes of Durandal and Aura and just says "So long as you promise not to fuck with us and let us genocide and conquer the rest of the planet as we wish we'll leave your little island country alone so you can remain there safe in your precious isolation and neutrality." and if they'd just retire to Orb and let everyone else get fucked. Cause that's really how it looked in Destiny

>>22867990
>I am weird for genuinely feeling bad for Orphee
i feel bad for Orphee because he was underwritten, he clings to his purpose and his destiny (plan) but the movie would rather beat his obsession with Lacus like a dead horse, i dont even understand why dumbgreed even likes him.

>>22870328
>AA saw them launching the nukes. Granted the ship was destroyed but if they relayed the data somewhere to a surviving computer

Nope. The AA didn't see the Black Knights launching any nukes. The only thing they "saw" was the Black Knights flying around and then attacking them after the Federation gave the Black Knights the order to stop Compass and Kira.

>>22870631
Fukuda says no. Just like how someone asked him about the nuclear powered Treaty breaking suits (Freedom, Destiny, and Infinite Justice) being used to defeat the Black Knight's battery powered suits. And how everyone knows that Compass broke the Treaty. Fukuda said that Team Lacus killed everyone with no survivors. No one survived to tell anyone about the Treaty breaker suits according to Fukuda. So Mighty Strike Freedom, Infinite Justice, and the rebuilt Destiny are still secrets. The world doesn't know about them.

Remember when Kira used Mighty Strike Freedom's Lightning attack, and it hit the entire Moon fleet guarding the moon with electricity in that one scene?? That wasn't just an "EMP" like some people claim. People on those ships actually died. Those ships are floating coffins now. The crew were fried and killed. Like how Cyclops and Genesis killed people in the TV anime. Fukuda says that violence and death like can't be shown anymore like in the old Seed TV anime. But those people in the ships are dead from Kira's lightning attack.

>>22870787
They saw them behind the Eurasian line where they weren't supposed to be, which is why they attacked them. Foundation only officially got the ok to attack Kira, although they attacked everyone since jamming was up and they planned to kill everyone anyway.

>>22870824
This is why Fukuda shouldn't be allowed to say stuff like this, since there's plenty of Zaft and EA allies in their fight who would have had to have seen them too unless Compass massacred everyone in the vicinity afterwards. It's baffling why he won't just say "The treaty was withdrawn after Destiny" which would just solve any issues.

>>22870830
1. None of that is proof of anything. AA didn't "see" the Black Knights do launch nukes.

Black Knights got their orders stop Kira. Then Shinn and Mu opened fire on the Black Knights FIRST to stop them from going after Kira, and started helping Kira. So the entire Compass force (including the Archangel) in the area could easily been declared rogue and supporting Kira's illegal actions. So Black Knights went after the AA. And communications were jammed in the area. So no proof could be transmitted (which AA didn't have even if they wanted to transmit).

2. Legally, Compass was declared illegal and considered renegades during the movie. Their Millennium ship was to remain in Orb's port under lockdown. Their actions were not sanctioned by any country. Legally, they "stole" Millennium and are traitors.

>>22870837

>there's plenty of Zaft
Only Strike Freedom (and even that was only for a few moments) was seen by Zaft. And specifically it was the Zaft fleet guarding the Moon Requiem Laser. Fukuda says any enemy ship that saw SF is destroyed. If you watch Mighty Strike Freedom's lightning attack, we see lightning hit Zaft ships too. They are all dead according to Fukuda.

>and EA allies
Dead by Requiem laser earlier in the movie.


>withdraw Treaty.
The Treaty is more of an "honor system" now since it can't be enforced. But it still looks very bad publicly if you break it. I guess Fukuda doesn't want Team Lacus to be morally wrong. He doesn't want anyone to accuse Orb or Lacus of using nuclear powered weapons. So the suits have to remain a secret.

>>22870848
Compass was never declared illegal, just that EA and Zaft pulled out their support, leaving Orb as it's only backer. They even say in their convo with Cagalli that the reports are all in conflict and nobody can verify anything beyond Foundation and Eurasia's word on the matter because everyone there supposedly died. Orb does disavow them briefly to avoid reprisal but Foundation doesn't buy it and they quickly move to support them afterwards anyway.

And of course, nobody on Earth or Plant other than the Zaft traitors are arguing in support of Foundation being justified in going genocidal space emperor, they're just too afraid of the Requiem to do anything. Nobody afterwards is going to try to prosecute Compass for interfering in Foundations "justified" attempt at a global takeover.

>>22870328
>AA saw them launching the nukes.
You are confusing what we, the audience knows, with what the characters in the story actually know. All the characters know is the Compass operation went horribly wrong. Kira went AWOL and started killing random EA troops. Archangel supported Kira and was shot down. Then in the craziness a nuke was fired killing millions. The Millennium was benched at Orb's port. Cagalli got emotional and tried to defend Compass and Kira despite the surviving evidence saying otherwise.
Compass losses all legal authority to operate in the aftermath. Then Millennium was stolen. We the audience knows what happened, but the characters in story do not know the whole truth.

>>22870860
>Dead by Requiem laser earlier in the movie.

Some of them survived. You see them helping Orb in the fight later on.

>>22869761
The fact that Foundation claims they're conquering and destroying in the name of Lacus Clyne who is their sister and backer, and then Lacus Clyne soon after makes a world wide broadcast and says they held her against her will, she disavows everything they do and that they're dangerous lunatics would pretty much kill any credibility they claimed to have had even if they had survived the aftermath.

>>22870848
>Their actions were not sanctioned by any country. Legally, they "stole" Millennium and are traitors.

Technically they were working for Orb despite Cagalli's initial claims otherwise, they had Orb fleet support and had Orb officers like Kisaka and Athrun on board working with them. They'd be cleared in the aftermath, since Orb was defending itself and Foundation would have lost their credibility anyway after Plant and Lacus publicly turned on them.

>>22870885
But did those EA ships specifically see Strike Freedom? I only recall one Orb ship seeing Strike Freedom. The rest were ZAFT and Black Knight ships.

>>22870472
Yeah Durandal at least had his fans on Earth, what little we see. Nobody was supporting Foundation other than themselves and a a few Plant guys butt hurt Kira wouldn't let them massacre Naturals in revenge. A very small few given how quickly they're put down once the Chairman orders the loyalist Zaft to take them out. Nobody supported Foundation, and unlike Durandal they actually bothered this time to show the huddled masses on Earth terrified and looking for someone to save them.

>>22870863
>>22870908
>They'd be cleared in the aftermath
Not really. They are renegades now. They stole the Millennium. A ship built by Zaft and on loan to Compass. It's questionable if Compass even owns the ship.

>>22871000
They're no more renegade than the last two times they took things into their own hands. Orb and Plant will cover their asses like they usually do. Who's gonna prosecute and try to court martial them?

>>22869333
>there's nothing positive about him
>immediately lists at least two positives
Huh?

>>22871013
Go back to /pol

>>22871009
Well they are clearly wary of some retaliation since they went into hiding at the end of story. And Fukuda went to great lengths to say on social media that no one knows their whereabouts, their nuclear suits are still secret, and Kira and Lacus are in hiding.

>>22871018
Athrun Shinn Luna and the crew of the Millenium went about their business. They even let Agnes back in. Kira and Lacus disappeared because they want a break

>>22871018
>Well they are clearly wary of some retaliation

Who's gonna retaliate against them? The guys they saved from being ruled over by Foundation? Fukuda also said they wiped out everyone on Foundation's side (except Agnes I guess) to a man.

>>22871027
Fukuda on sidal media said they wiped out anyone that saw Freedom, Justice, or Destiny during the battle. Not that they killed EVERY single enemy.


>>22871023
>Athrun Shinn Luna and the crew of the Millenium went about their business.

Shinn is technically considered dead and wearabouts unknown. His last recorded location officially was piloting the Immortal Justice and then a nuke hit him.

Considering Zaft's government is now in utter chaos...we don't know even know if Shinn and Luna are official Zaft soldiers anymore. They might have to join Orb now to save themselves.

>They even let Agnes back in.
They only recovered Agnes so she wouldn't suffocate, and die on the Moon surface. Her punishment is TBD.

>Kira and Lacus disappeared because they want a break
That's not the only reason they disappeared and you know it. They are high profile targets. Lacus JUST got kidnapped during most of the anon. Or did you forget?

>>22871027
>Who's gonna retaliate against them?
Anyone that has a grudge against Lacus. They sent an Assassin team after her in Seed Destiny, and she was abducted and nearly raped in this movie.

>>22871058
>Considering Zaft's government is now in utter chaos...we don't know even know if Shinn and Luna are official Zaft soldiers anymore. They might have to join Orb now to save themselves.
I figured they left ZAFT after Destiny to join COMPASS.
>They only recovered Agnes so she wouldn't suffocate, and die on the Moon surface. Her punishment is TBD.
Didn't one of the postcards taking place after Freedom, imply they left her rejoin?

>>22871058
>Considering Zaft's government is now in utter chaos

It's really not, the chairman retook control and the rebel faction was quickly put down. I don't know why people keep insisting "It's all gone to shit and all governments are losing control, CE is DOOMED" when nothing in the movie suggests that. At best the novel, which is not canon says some people in Plant thought the Accords were right and should have won, which means nothing at the moment as far as politics. Some people thought Durandal was right too and they still kept things stable after Destiny until Foundation got involved.

>>22871078
The postcards also show that Kira and Lacus eventually just went home to Malchio's house with Kira's parents

>>22871084
Because Fukuda said so. So if Fukuda says it's all in chaos then it's in chaos. You must accept his almighty words. He is the creator.

>>22871084
>I don't know why people keep insisting "It's all gone to shit and all governments are losing control, CE is DOOMED" when nothing in the movie suggests that.
There's an economic depression, and the Earth Alliance is reduced to the few remnants of Blue Cosmos that easily get wiped out by COMPASS.

>>22871078
>Didn't one of the postcards taking place after Freedom, imply they left her rejoin?
The "post card" is just her talking with Shinn and Luna immediately after the battle is over in Millenium's hangar.

>>22870848
Compass was never declared illegal. ZAFT and the EA withdrew their funding but didn't try to dismantle them, and Orb pretended they had gone rogue to avoid getting lasered, which was seen through instantly.

>>22871000
They didn't steal it because ZAFT never asked for it back. Cagalli says they did but she's lying and everyone sees through it immediately.

>>22871018
They went into hiding because they wanted to be left alone. The other COMPASS members are still public and doing fine.

>>22871084
>I don't know why people keep insisting "It's all gone to shit and all governments are losing control

Because Director Fukuda commented on social media that the entire political world of CE has fallen into chaos including ZAFT. There is a big economic depression across the world and there is turmoil in major governments.

If you look even deeper, it's basically Fukida's way of soft rebooting the setting. The huge economic depression means technology and develooment has massively down or even regressed. So older suits like the Zaku are still relevant now. You won't have armies of Destroy Gundams and Destiny Gundams flying around (although I am surprised Zaft never made another Destiny Gundam). No more super weapons being built like Neo Neo Neo Genesis. Or Neo Neo Requiem. No one can afford it. IIRC, The Gelgoog and Gyan are supposed to be experimental budget MS upgrades too. They reuse a lot of parts from older suits like the Gouf and Zaku backpacks.

Governments breaking apart that also means previous Treaties are out the window. Even the Zaft Treaty is in question now. Zaft might even break apart into smaller Colony governments. We might get one that supports the Destiny plan and another that doesn't.

Everything is pushed in this direction so the scale of the conflict can shrink down and more Seed stories can be told without someone saying "Why don't they build 50 super Destroy Gundams and mobile armors and just win?". Can do it if the government is gone and everyone is poor!

I love how the only reason Kira and Lacus don't an answer to solving all the world's problems is just so they can keep making more SEED stories.

>>22871140
He says a lot of shit that he then ignores when he makes sequels

>>22849333
It is just a refined Justice with second-stage battery tech instead of nuclear engine. Original Justice wasn't really that special either outside of its nuclear engine.

>>22871338
OG Justice was great. It could attack multiple enemies at once in medium and close range combat. Very tricky to fight. The Drone backpack was a big threat since the databooks said that the Drone backpack flew at faster speeds than Mobile suits since it didn't have to worry about a human pilot being inside. It was so agile and fast that the backpack couldn't get hit by the latest Federation Gundam units.

>>22871144
In any other setting, two people, who are as smart and influential as Kira and Lacus are supposed to be, constantly allowing things to go to shit before swooping in at the last minute to save the day, would be a blatant Machiavellian power play.

>>22871140
>There is a big economic depression across the world and there is turmoil in major governments.
Funny how you never see that. Or is it a 'Japan-style depression' where people still flock to McDonalds, the shopping streets are full and the biggest economic shock to the populace is having to spend less on the lunch set?

>>22870472
At least with Durandal you get the impression that he had a genuine albeit EXTREMELY misguided desire to help humanity. If he didn't blow his credibility by threatening everyone with the giant space lasers he may have had more countries willing to implement the plan voluntarily.