Was Reinhard nearly as genius as the show makes him out to be? His contemporaries and even the show's narrator jerk him off to no end about being le perfect autocrat, but it often feels like he's just an incredibly lucky individual surrounded by capable subordinates. I think the amount of times an outnumberer Yang had him on the ropes speaks volumes on his military prowess, at least. More evidence to back this up:>Friedrich IV knew he was scheming to overthrow him and simply let it happen anyway>Only decisive victories were against inbred nobles, vastly outnumbered fleets, and literal incompetents>Hid his illness with little regard for what would happen to the empire after he died
Bonus:>Didn't even have Braunschweig's dead body checked for rocket launchers
>>22826244This is what Toshio Okada said.
>>22826244>Only decisive victories were against inbred nobles, vastly outnumbered fleets, and literal incompetentsThat's kind of the entire point. Both the Galactic Empire and FPA had become so decrepit and corrupt that it doesn't take much in the way of competency and honesty to overcome them. Reinhard was certainly more than just a little of both, but to his credit he also had the wisdom, cunning and opportunism to exploit the chances given to him and set up the playing field to his advantage down the road. So yeah, he was a strategic genius and that deserves credit.He doesn't need to be the king of solo combat to be the best Emperor in several generations, he just needs to command the loyalty of those skilled enough in combat to execute his wishes. The very fact that he was able to draw such skilled subordinates to his side (and keep them on his side) is just another sign of his genius.
>>22826277They even make the point in the show that while on an even play field Yang would win, Reinhard can better tilt things in his favor because he's more willing to be ruthless and seize power than Yang. Reinhard will never fight an equal battle and always sets things up so that he will ultimately come out on top, but he stagnates without a challenge. He's a conquerer, not an administrator. Yang would probably be a decent administrator, but if he had the chance he'd either coast or retire for the pension.
>mobile poster>too stupid to peace together that maybe lining his staff with capable subordinates and that his repeated "luck" might have something to do with his intelligence.Check outs.
>>22826244Mecha?
>>22826244No, the Goldenbaum dynasty and the FPA were just that crap.
>>22826917>too stupid to peace togetherKek>>22827517This is my point. Yes, he's obviously a very capable strategist, but he's more of an ambitious opportunist who found himself in some very convenient situations (Kaiser boning his sister, old Empire run by retards, etc.) rather than a true genius on par with Yang.
>>22826244Yang is a better admiral. Reinharto-heika is a better politician.
>>22827562Yang had Fischer helping him with formations and used history to his advantage
>>22828005Also had the rosen ritter to singlehandedly invade a gigantic fortress.
>>22826244The problem is simply that the tactics in the show are retarded, which also boils down to the classic writing challenge of portraying characters who are more intelligent than you are. Yang and Reinhard both are supposed to be once in several generations geniuses, but since the author isn't that intelligent (not saying he is stupid mind you) the generic antagonists have to be portrayed as completely incompetent buffoons so that Reinhard can be portrayed as normal and Yang as kind of smart to be genius in comparison.
>>22826254> Miyazaki is Reinhard> Tomino is WenliSo does that mean Nagano is Rubinsky?
>>22830173Look, as someone who applies a critical theory of "it's probably something Three Kingdoms related" to Yoshiki Tanaka's writing in LoGH, I don't think he was in it to write smart characters, but rather to create the same exaggerated spectacle of historical fantasy as seen in Rot3K.And while I've not sat down to read Rot3K myself, I've heard it can be a bit goofball in its own right.
>>22826244>Be a brilliant strategist and able to manipulate the entire universe to have the best available conditions in his hand the entire time>'hmmm he's just lucky'You're retarded, and you probably think anyone better than you is just lucky as well.
>>22830613>hmmm he's just luckyHe's tho, he's lucky to be the family of emperor's concubine so that he can start his career as prestigious officer instead of fodder soldier.Meanwhile Yang was unlucky enough that he can't escape the military draft and keep being sent to the frontline.
>>22826254That’s a really good comparison. A lot of Tomino’s anime feel like he was stuck working with what he got while Miyazaki usually gets whatever or whoever he needs.
>>22830173Gotta admit, the SEVENTH and successful attempt to take over Iserlohn Fortress being something as simple as faking someone’s identity was a bit goofy. A vast majority of the old guard being stubborn retards is unfortunately real though.
>>22826254Not to harp on the guy too much, but it does sometimes feel a little ridiculous just how much Miyazaki has complained over the years about obstacles he's faced when as far as it seems, he's had it almost absurdly easy by the standards of the animation industry.
>>22826254So Reinhard is based and correct and Yang is cringe and wrong.
>>22830584Try out the 2010 Three Kingdoms show. It's really fun
>>22832164Annerose being "sold" to the Emperor was Reinhard's motivation for overthrowing the Goldenbaum dynasty. If that never happened, would he have even joined the military? Would history have never heard of him?
>>22826244He's a genius but his biggest asset was having people who shielded him from his fuckups in what would have been possible loss scenarios, be it Kircheis paying with his life for his lack of foresight, Mariendorf covering his ass when he lost to Yang in the closest thing this series had to a fair fight, or Oberstein swiftly getting rid of obstacles and redirecting the hatred towards himself over shit that ultimately was Reinhard's responsibility like the Westerland massacre.The difference between Yang and Reinhard is that every bad decision Yang took came to bite him in the ass, be it in fleet strength or power. Reinhard's bad decisions only started to threaten his inner circle when it became virtually impossible to oust him from power by force.
>>22835794Sister gets to live in luxury and despite the fact that it is very weird it's really not that bad. "Grrah I have to overtrow the Kaiser and conquer the known galaxy", what the fuck was his problem? Seriously what the fuck? Was he just majorly autistic and needed to have his big sister mother him or some shit?
>>22832164In the gaiden he started as an ensign on a remote planet where the fighting had gone nowhere and his superiors were plotting against him. He barely outranked Kercheis.
>>22837073>and conquer the known galaxyBlame that on Kircheis uttering it to Reinhard while he was dying
Is this the most famous example of an anime where the bad guys categorically and unironically win?
>>22837073His dad sold his sister off as a sex slave and he wanted to rescue her. He was furious that the Empire was set up so people like him and his sister were utterly helpless against the great nobles and the kaiser.It's not that hard to understand
>>22838012>bad guysanon the good guys win here...
>>22838012Rubinsky didn't win though, nor did the FPA, or the Terrarists
If Reinhard set thing up so that he had all the advantages on the battlefield, then he was the superior strangest. If Yang still won on that battlefield, then he was the superior tactician.
>>22833558That's a pretty accurate description of Tomino's entire attitude to his entire career. He doesn't work in anime because he wanted to, he works in anime because they're the ones who hired him, and eventually they were the only ones who hired him.
The Persian King-of-Kings Darius III was the superior strategist at the battle of Gaugamela. He gathered way more cavalry than the Macedonians had, then prepared the battlefield, leveling and denuding the terrain to give advantage to his superior numbers of cavalry and scythe-chariots. But Alexander of Macedon proved to be the superior tactician, beat Darius anyway.
>>22834562>Gotta admit, the SEVENTH and successful attempt to take over Iserlohn Fortress being something as simple as faking someone’s identity was a bit goofyMore than a bit considering the scale of the fortress. Also most of the old guard, especially on the empire's side, were gone after the first season, so they weren't around for most of the show. >>22836183>be it Kircheis paying with his life for his lack of foresightSecurity issue, also Kercheis not having his sidearm was advised by Oberstein.>Mariendorf covering his ass when he lost to Yang in the closest thing this series had to a fair fightThere was also Astarte. At Vermillion Julian was the one who saw through Reinhard's plan.>Oberstein swiftly getting rid of obstacles and redirecting the hatred towards himself over shit that ultimately was Reinhard's responsibility like the Westerland massacre.That was also Oberstein's idea, it also helped expedite the end of the civil war and they managed to get the fortress intact. So must of his issues were caused by Oberstein and one was resolved by him, sounds like he had an Oberstein problem.
>>22842218huh. So why not make some live action then? Surely he was around long enough that he could have gotten enough clout for live action? I could see him making some nice sci-fi stories. I imagine a bunch of the scenes being on bridges so the budget wouldn't be TOO expensive right?
>>22844383>he can only make anime despite hating it because he isn't cut out/good enough for real stuff. he is praised for his writing and directing anime, because it is a very low bar, even then, he only has 1 fluke with gundam and everything else was mid to flop.That's the thing: I don't really like Tomino. He writes these weird almost autistic characters with baffling motivations, and I saw people defend it as "Japanese". Meanwhile I experience more Japanese media and... people act like normal people. So I just chalk it up to Tomino being a bad writer, who lucked out a few times early in his career. But that being said, there's never been a lack of mediocre directors and writers in live action.
>>22842226Your analysis is flawed, as the Macedonian's had a significant advantage in how they equipped and ordered their troops. Scythe Chariots were also the Cybertruck of their day, super-expensive pieces of shit that were more dangerous to their drivers than the enemy. Simply put, Alexander entered the field with a vastly superior force to the one Darius did.
>>22826244Is the empire literally just space nazis?
>>22842218>I hate anime, but when I look at the history of Japanese movies over the last 30 years, I'm glad I decided to go with anime.Brutal
>>22844710During Rudy's tenure most definitely, and Tanaka lays it on thick in the prologue just how familiar Rudolph's ideas were to anyone with even the passing familiarity of human history, but over time the Empire kinda just settled into ye olde imperialism since successive generations of Goldenbaum weren't as up their ass in the Totally Not Aryanism stuff like good 'ol Rudy was.So no, not really, but there was absolutely a time where it legitimately was. Oberstein wouldn't let you hear the end of it if you let him do his bit about his robo eyes.
>>22844710The empire we see at the time of the show is Space Prussia(you know the kingdom that basically made modern Germany). Kaiser Rudolf von Goldenbaum was basically a space nazi who wanted to LARP as 1800s aristocracy. We'll he won, so hard that his larp became reality, and the nazi stuff fell to the wayside after him as it was a really means to an end in making the larp real.
>>22845030Means to an end my ass, he bought hard into his space fascist strongboy ideology, let's not bluewash this as being him just wanting to build empire, he legit thought himself the hero figure of an epic struggle to save mankind from itself.For fuck's sake the dude couldn't even accept his own fertility issues because it would go against his own ideological thrust.
>>22845186Anon, I meant means to end for creating space Prussia in the over all narrative. Rudolf is 100% a space nazi. I'm not trying to deny it. Hell it's the first thing i said>Kaiser Rudolf von Goldenbaum was basically a space nazi
>>22844383are you going to spam this garbage copypasta im every thread, you faggot /a/ tourist? at least use an /m/ reaction pic subhuman.
Bump
>>22830584>>Look, as someone who applies a critical theory of "it's probably something Three Kingdoms related" to Yoshiki Tanaka's writing in LoGH,You can do that with a lot of asian-made media. ROTK and Water Margin. They are EVERYWHERE.
>>22844769He is right. They kind of stopped making good movies after a while.
the west is still mad that game of thrones is worse than logh
>>22849354I dont think the audience for those two overlaps.GoTs main audience are working functional adults while LoGHs audience are a bunch of manchild
>>22844710Reinhard is Space Alexander the Great. He even has his almost homoerotic friend that dies, and he himself dies of a mysterious disease at an early age, after he finished his war of conquest and started managing his empire.
>>22852487Alexander the Great + Napoleon.
Yang is space Zhuge Liang, right?
>>22849304Don't forget Journey to the West.I mean, I don't think it's that different from Christian imagery in Western storytelling. Even when a Western story is not explicitly religious, the imagery and ideas are too ubiquitous to not be in almost everything.
>>22826277>>22826482Don't forget how hard Reinhard seethed when he found out...well, you know. Even he knew only Yang truly challenged him.
>>22834977Don't do this as it's a terrible adaptation, watch the much beloved 1994 show that's getting new subs curently
>>22852435>not enjoying both
>>22853138>>I mean, I don't think it's that different from Christian imagery in Western storytelling.I think that JTTW and Water Margin have more of an influence on the imagery being used
>>22853197Oh god, a redditor from the three kingdoms sub is here
>>22852435>GoTs main audience are working functional adults And? They have no taste>but they le workno taste, and your retarded that it would even matter>>22853224Not him but, the 1994 series is better
>>22853237>the 1994 series is betterAt some things. A lot of it really doesn't hold up, but at least its more faithful to the source material and some of the actors are better too. The cinematography in it is truly better than the 2010 show, I will admit that.
>>22838079Honestly their father didn't really sell her. Annerose realized it too. When the Kaiser's goons show up at your hose and say he wants your daughter there is an implicit threat that they will just take her if you say no and will probably kill you and the rest of your family, maybe even burn down your house and cause problems for your entire neighborhood.
>>22853239>A lot of it really doesn't hold upLike what?
>>22853254Like actors always fucking laughing all the time and most of them being wooden as fuck, special effects, some of the music (although I liked Red hare's anime song) and the framing.
>>22853288>Like actors always fucking laughing all the time and most of them being wooden as fuck,Isn't that a Chinese thing?>special effectsit's supposed to be realistic
>>22842218so he's basically like kojima who wanted to also direct movies but ended up making MGS and its shitty ass jank gameplay.
>>22852435*GoTs main audience are Reddit manchild while LoGHs audience are 4chan manchild
>>22853224How is it reddit to say the 1994 adaptation is better? the only place you'll find love for the 2010 one is the western internet where it was the only adaptation with good subs for years.
>>22826254>>22833558>>22834672I mean regardless of whatever advantage Miyazaki had he still had to work for itHe stood out when they animated Coglistro and most of his movie pitches were outright rejected and the one that went through (Nausicaa) required he make an entire manga before the studio even considered it. I know I'm autistically nitpicking the comparison but it doesn't feel completely apt, it's not like all these opportunities just fell into his lap, Miyazaki still had to prove himself. If he was just some no-name nobody that had nothing going for him it would fit more
>>22853333>Isn't that a Chinese thing?It certainly used to be in older shows, yeah.>it's supposed to be realisticDoesn't explain that hex mark scene.>>22853369Because they hate the 2010 show in reddit recently.
>>22853364
>>22853237>People with taste are manchildsWoman here, you guys are disgusting
>>22853222Tbqh GoT was mildly enjoyable till s2
>>22853387>>22826254yeah it's kinda weird how the internet likes to portray Miyazaki as some crochety old man that doesn't know what he's talking about and just sort of...neglect all the things he accomplished with his career and don't want to recognize that for the sake of the argumentTrue he does act like a crochety old man but regardless of the advantages he had he still experienced life the way your average person would and has the know-how to create stories that resonate with people on a personal level. It's the same thing with Anno, he also had certain advantages but that doesn't mean his success was just handed to him.I dunno it just feels weird people act like they have this chip on their shoulder about Miyazaki now just because he's a little too blunt with his opinions so it feels like a lot of the criticism towards him feels a bit petty.Also I feel like bringing up that he went to a nice school feels like a cope. If he went to a "normal" school or had no education and still succeeded these guys would just say it was luck or some shit
>>22854487>woman
>>22853250Friedrich IV was such a timid, almost broken old man IIRC that I wonder if he would have been that harsh, but I definitely agree that that sort of thing would have been common in the Galactic Reich during the time period of the show.
>>22845030>The empire we see at the time of the show is Space PrussiaThe Galactic Empire's aesthetics and style remind one of Prussia, but the court intrigue reminds me more of Austria. The Hohenzollern court of Prussia had many men of talent promoted for proven ability and accorded respect because of their achievements like Moltke and Bismarck. They even welcomed foreigners into the court like Gerhard von Scharnhorst. He was from Hanover (an independent state at that time) but the Prussians made him a general and let him reform their army during the Napoleonic Wars.
>>22845030>The empire we see at the time of the show is Space PrussiaCan you imagine Baron Flegal or Duke Braunschweig acting like that? No, they hated Reinhard because he was an outsider to their court where bloodlines counted for much more than ability or achievement. The fact that Reinhard’s achievements strengthen the Empire doesn't even register with them. What really matters is their own positions amid the backbiting intrigue of their deadly, decedent court.
>>22845030They remind me of the Austrian nobles who plotted against the Habsburg Empire’s greatest general, Prince Eugene of Savoy. A Frenchman who pledged his sword to the Empire, his genius on the battlefield was appreciated by the Emperor but resented by the nobles. "Prinz Eugen" survived their schemes and really infuriated them with his genius at practical jokes.The Galactic Empire may look like Prussia, but it acts like Austria.
>>22826244>Was Reinhard nearly as genius as the show makes him out to be?Reinhard was never truly challenged or pushed to his limit. Every enemy he faced in the Empire was nearly incompetent. It was rather tiresome seeing him just steamroll awful enemies. The only enemy who was arguably equal or superior was Yang Wenli, but he was part of the Free Planets alliance. It would have been nice to see Reinhard face Yang Wenli in a true showdown. And not have any plot interference.The did fight twice and Yang beat Reinhard both times.
>>22856037>It would have been nice to see Reinhard face Yang Wenli in a true showdown. And not have any plot interference.Did you want them to sit down and play a game of chess?
>>22854501I'd say till season 4, the battle of castle black was very pleasing
>>22856898I want to see them sit down like Koreans and play starcraft on a jumbotron
>>22856898I want an ordinary battle where one side wins and the other dies or clearly loses. Ever notice that as soon as Reinhard is about to lose, the universe steps in and gives him plot armor? Random reinforcements arriving or some event happening behind the front lines which forces Yang to leave the battle.
>>22857376well, generally in these battles unless the commander was retarded (or some no-name), they're usually not putting themselves in a position to get completely and utterly annihilated, there's usually enough time to notice that shit is hitting the fan and that it's time to bail out
>>22857376>>22857443Even you have to admit the story bends over backwards to give Reinhard wins. He had never once fought a competent enemy Commander. All his enemies are comically bad at their jobs.
>>22857376>which forces Yang to leave the battle.That is the entire point. When they FPA surrenders and Yang COULD kill Reinharto anyway, that is the ultimate test of his character and morality. If he did kill Reinharto, he would be a hypocrite, unfit to represent democracy or work within a constitutional system.It is supposed to be the biggest blueballing of all time.
>>22857477Incorrect. There are several problems. When Yang receives the orders, they weren't confirmed and could have been an enemy trick. And fighting doesn't just stop "immediately" in real life. Even in real life when a surrender order is issued, it takes several days or weeks for it to work.Commanders of armies have to triple and quadruple check to confirm orders while still fighting. (( Same with launching nukes. You can't just launch them. You have to have multiple levels of confirmation and authorization throughout government. And when nuclear silos or submarine commanders receive nuclear launch orders, it requires several people on board to launch them. If one person disagrees, then it doesn't happen. Even the Captain of the boat or Commander of the silo can demand re-confirmaiton. )) And usually soldiers don't just throw down their weapons. They do a fighting retreat or fighting withdrawl. Then an "official surrender" ceremony is organized later by the military. They don't just immediately "stop" in the middle of battle. Commanders need confirmation and need to check with HQ. And even then Ships, tanks, Fighters, etc...all gradually fall back while still firing on the enemy. It's a fighting retreat.Yang could have fired on Reinhard's ship while falling back to confirm orders and triple check with HQ. As again it could have been an enemy trick.Lastly, just because the enemy has captured your Capital City doesn't mean you have to surrender. Capturing the capital city means nothing. The British burned down the White House and Washington DC. America didn't surrender. Napoleon captured Moscow and the Russians refused to surrender. Germany captured Paris, but the French government splintered apart. Some surrendered while others refused to surrender and setup a French government in exile in Britain. Both French Governments claimed to be legitimate. Who has authority then?Yang could have blasted Reinhard and still be morally right.
>>22857561Actually, wasn't there a episode where Yang tricked one of the Imperial admirals by sending them false messages, and they didn't know which ones to believe since they conflicted with each other and were equally believable? And it turned out in the end that all of the order messages were fake and there never were any real orders dispatched from higher authorities?
>>22857376Like how Yang got command at Astarte because his superior was injured right before they would be annihilated? >>22857471Its more of this >>22830173. Show bends over backwards to give both Yang and Reinhard wins. The biggest offense goes to Yang when he took Iserlohn.
>>22857583Not that anon but I totally forgot about that. Yang completely broke the rules of war! That little punk! Who says Yang is a moralist? Lmao.
>>22857561>Lastly, just because the enemy has captured your Capital City doesn't mean you have to surrender.They made the decision to surrender. Whether or not they were obligated to doesn't matter that much. Its like wondering why Reinhard just sat there as Yang was fucking with the asteroids or why it would take a significant amount of time to deal with any of the supply bases the fleets were dispersed to.
>>22857583>>22857651Found the episode, #70. Can't find a video that isn't a cringey reaction youtuber but this summarizes the episode.https://lowermidtable.wordpress.com/2010/05/01/blogging-legend-of-the-galactic-heroes-episode-70/There was a real set of orders mixed in, but they definitely couldn't tell and just got confused.
>>22857561>>22857477Also, IIRC Yang was worried about the effects Reinhard's death would have on the Empire itself. Like, his reasoning was that if Reinhard died, even if that would save the FPA, the Empire would descend into civil war, with horrible death and destruction for the common people. Yang was always a gentle man, and I mean gentle in having a strong distaste for the bloodshed war causes, even when necessary. That's another reason he declined to fire, IIRC.
>>22857822But why is Yang concerning himself with the Empire's internal issues? If anything, an Empire Civil War would give the FPA a chance to recover and rebuild. And later perhaps a Peace Treaty could be signed.
