So how strong are vulcans supposed to be? I'm not talking special beam vulcans like you'd see on the Unicorn or Gadessa. I'm talking physical projectiles.For that matter, how strong is MS armor usually for grunts? Some days it's like you're using SDGO vulcans.
>>22927286>I'm talking physical projectiles.So, like Unicorn's.And to answer the question it's inconsistent as fuck. For the most part they only really manage to damage sensors or sometimes joints, but then there's this scene you posted.
>>22927286Presumably it depends on model and writer. The Wing Zero and Epyon had each other dodge their vulcans rather than tank them suggesting the Zero Systems both predicted they'd take non-negligible damage beyond the paint job.
>>22927286Yeah I call bullshit on that scene.There is absolutely no way a vulcan could obliterate a Geara Doga shield like that.
>>22927339best explanation I've heard is that the Doga's armor was already heavily damaged and the vulcans just got a few lucky hits to fuck it up completely. Given the Doga got close to Ra Cailum, it would make sense it already took some damage.
>>22927286Very weak usually, usually enough to break a camera, or some other superfluous part, at best small damage that adds up to a part break if you don't move out the way of itSeems mostly there for the distraction factor of making a pilot feel like they're being hit with something
>>22927340Maybe Anaheim scammed Char with cheap mechs among the okay mechs.
I find it weird that space colonies seem more vulnerable to getting holes blown in them by mobile suit fire than an actual mobile suit is.
>>22927286How long is a piece of string?
>>22927360Careful, anon. Before you neglect to suspend your belief and realize indefinitely staying out in space and building robust space colonies that are supposed to contain a bunch of breathable air is not far off from losing it all quickly, nevermind the mechanics of at-scale spontaneous oxygen creation.
>>22927345Doesn't even have to be a scam, could be a manufacturing flaw that went unnoticed on this unit.
>>22927360Vast majority of the time the dangerous holes are blown by mobile suit reactor explosions, which are significantly more powerful and also a threat to mobile suits. Regular weapon fire doesn't even always penetrate unless it's hitting the glass part.
>>22927340We see Nu do something similar in another scene.
>>22927478Anaheim being the sort to give free Geara Zulus to Full Frontal because it would mean the Feds order more mechs too, I wouldn't be surprised if they cheaped out one way or another.
>>22927286It’s not about Vulcans being strong. Geara Doga are made of budget paper. They’re Great Value army builder. Same armor as GMs but half the weight. They’re shit
>>22927482IIRC that was shooting at the head only and I can absolutely believe Amuro in Nu could aim so well to destroy the sensors and then the entire head from there
>>22927339>>22927340What if the bullets are like Magnum rounds?
Vulcans got better. Nothing says they have to stay exactly the same as they were in the OYW
>>22927286Apparently it's because of >>22927421Also, repurposed captured Geara Dogas made into aggressor units used a Bawoo shield in actual combat because apparently those still exist in Fed storage. Lehr Dogas show up in F90FF.
>>22927613>>22927340called it
>>22927613One guy Charles used the Bawoo shield. Most others used Jegans. Even Geara Zulus captured in Unicorn used them for some reason. I get the Beam Saber because it's a different weapon and handling than a Beam Axe but even the shields? Repainted too. And the dipshit pilot threw it away in typical GM pilot style without firing the missiles too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFleB1Bj_T0
>>22927624Dipshit I mean Jegan guy. Zulu guy had his bolted to the shoulder, Why is this such a standard GM pilot thing? Is this taught in academies? Do they assume the mass reduction is worth being vulnerable to hits the shield would've tanked? If you gathered all the discarded shields in UC, you'd have enough material to build an army.
>>22927624What was he going to do, fire at his own ship? lmao
>>22927630Get in a different angle because the enemy hasn't seen him and fire. He willingly landed on the ship, threw away the bean rifle and shield to go melee.
>>22927286Given they fit inside a Jegan's head, they can't be too high a caliber compared to Zaku machineguns. Same for Shot Lancer machineguns sizes. MS durability highly varies like that one Shrike team girl whose machine got dick slapped.
>>22927633>don't worry bro I'll just fire my beam rifle and missiles towards the launch deck nothing will go wrong>oh the enemy might explode into a nuclear fire ball? Don't about it bro
>>22927638>lands on deck>deck explodes because such an important thing is less durable than the far smaller shield on the enemy MS>enemy MS which doesn't know you're there so you can't go to the adjacent launch deck and fire at it so even if you miss it won't hit the ship but go off into space>especially because the enemy machine visibly lacks ranged weapons
>>22927638>oh the enemy might explode into a nuclear fire ballThen why shoot it at all? Everyone else was shooting at it. A jesta after lit it on fire without fearing nuclear meltdown.
>>22927648>A jesta after lit it on fire without fearing nuclear meltdown.That was an ECOAS Jegan throwing firebombs at the Zssa but otherwise yeah. The Schuzrum-Galluss wouldn't cause an explosion that'll total the ship.
>>22927626well yes, throwing away the shield to reduce mass and free the hand is a pretty obvious move if you want more agility which can suit some pilots
>>22927624Speaking of Jegan shields, the A type's shield tanks a hit from a Den'an Zon's beam even if it destroys the shield. Given how much more advanced the Crossbone Vanguard's machines are, this is actually worth celebrating.
>>22927286They are usually not great against MSs, though they can hurt subsystems like sensors. There have been cases when they’ve killed MSs outright though. It’s just rare.
I know it’s a video game, but the vulkans on late UC units like the Re-GZ are pretty powerful in SD G Gen when the pilot is amped.
>>22927648No, only Conroy was shooting at it with the beam pistol, and that was only after it destroyed the Jegan and Geara Zulu defending the deck. Not only is the pistol a much lower power weapon, he was only aiming at their heads to disable them like he did to the Zssa.>jesta after lit it on fire without fearing nuclear meltdownA fire grenade isn't the same as rockets and beams. The Zssa that gets hit by it doesn't explode, it just falls away from the ship
>>22927286all the weapons in gundam are wildly inconsistent in power level.
>>22927360>I find it weird that space colonies seem more vulnerable to getting holes blown in them by mobile suit fire than an actual mobile suit is.I've talked about this a bunch in the past but how fragile Colonies are in Gundam is probably the single least realistic thing in any iteration of the franchise, a properly built O'Neil Cylinder would be built so thickly in even it's thinnest points(like even the "glass" would actually be a transparent alloy rather than actual glass and even that would be dozens of meters thick) that they'd be effectively invulnerable to all but the absolute largest super weapons in the franchise(so things like GENESIS or a Colony Laser), regular MS weaponry would barely scratch anything and even high end beam weaponry would only deal very minor cosmetic damagelike even the reactor explosions >>22927480 brings up wouldn't really do any meaningful damage to the colony structure(sure if it went off inside the colony it'd do a bunch of damage to more fragile internal components but nothing that would compromise the colony itself)>>22927286Geara Doga's are mediocre budget suits, they're about roughly on par with the GM III in overall performance and barely have any armor at all to save on costs(and the Geara Zulu is supposedly even more of a budget suit than its predecessor)
>>22927661a little bit of a downgrade from the last shield perforamnce, but the beam rifle tech has probably improved over the decades
>>22927360Colony hull is a civil engineering construction, it's made to resist space radiation, impacts from space debris and maybe small asteroids. Most of the colonies were built decades before beam technology even existedI mean if they really wanted to, they could slather the colony cylinders in anti-beam coating but the Feds are already stingy as fuck and hesitant to spend money protecting civilians, and if someone wanted to blow through a colony hull then they just keep shooting beams until the coating wears away or use a good old bomb or rocket to damage the surface coating before shooting it with a beam
>>22927793>The Zssa that gets hit by it doesn't explode, it just falls away from the shipCould've fell forward, fell down, stayed and exploded, etc.
>>22927869Supposedly Dogas are comparable to Jegans give or take and in-line with at the time standard mechs. Doven Wolfs and Zaku IIIs are likely both stronger but Char's working on a budget.
>>22927430Stupid comment. Vulcans only generally fire ammo ranging from 20mm - 35mm.
>>22928456are we talking real ones or gundam ones
>>22927793>much lower powerMechs in UC blow up all the time without massive explosions. The missiles are also very small. They can do damage but I doubt they'd kill unless they hit the cockpit. They're homing so just aim for the head.>A fire grenade isn't the same as rockets and beams. The Zssa that gets hit by it doesn't explode, it just falls away from the shipA fire can cause an explosion. It's space but this is Gundam and Minovski reactors can explode.
>>22927286This is why the Crossbone Vanguard uses Beam Shields.
>>22928115>>22928517https://youtu.be/3u8-JC9Mkdk?si=hVdAiLsk-E13WTHo&t=126Explosions in Gundam were never really consistent. Some might be dramatic effect but even considering different machines, the same machine can be hit by the smame weapon and still have a different explosion size. If I had to guess, it's warhead payload? The Jegans in CCA made bigger explosions with missed missiles than the Gaza hit by a few and exploding in the video.
>>22928546In my headcanon they were given stronger booms because they were dealing with a falling Axis vs random terrorist Sleeve schmucks.
>>22927286>SDGO vulcans.I MISS SDGO.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H3xILONToo
>>22928546Other Jegan in that vid fired rocket launchers too but that just adds rather than detract from your statement. Shield missile + other rockets and still a smaller explosion. Also lol at how the Doga at the end didn't assplode from being beam gatlinged that much. Banager missed the reactor?
Wing Zero's vulcans are very strong.
75mm vulcans
30mm vulcans
>>22927286Gundarium stronk
Anyone have that webm where ship CIWS blows up Astrays?
>>22928594that took place during the episodes where minerva was at sea, right? I'll make a webm in a couple of hours
>>22928618We already have them and they're on the archives. No need to make a new one, just asking if anyone has the existing webm.
>>22928584The Windams must've had much better guns.
>>22928584The freaky thing is more they managed to fit 75mm into that head. Pic is a 75mm 1942 tank round. They must've realized they went too far or screwed up the calibers because the GINN machine guns are only 76mm.
>>22928537Beam Shields probably depend on the power generated from the MS using it and what timeline they're from but they're really strong. CE has them blocking Anti-Ship Swords and Destroy main cannons.
>>22927286Has there ever been a plot point like>Everyone uses beams and vulcans are short range so we're better off just having a slab of steel + lots of anti-beam coating>OH FUCK OUR GUYS CLOSED IN AFTER DEFLECTING THE BEAMS BUT DIED TO PHYSICAL BULLETS
>>22927286More like how much did we cheap out on armor.
>>22927286>it works if you hose unarmored enemies at point blank range
>>22928546Explosion styles are more unique to specific animators and artists.
>>22928659basically yeah
Even in UC, there is at least this one niche use for vulcans: punching through I-Fields and destroying their sensitive machinery when your beam saber gets cockblocked.
>>22928725I don't have a screenshot of the exact scene but there's a moment like that in the Calibarn's big fight at the end of G-Witch. The last of the drones in the fight is fitted into a small mobile armour-esque expansion rig of some kind. It locks sabers with Calibarn. Up that close Suletta can't bring the broom-rifle-thing to bear because of its length, so instead she hoses down the drone's equipment with the head vulcans. It's forced to break the melee to eject the hardware, giving Suletta enough room to be able to melt it with the cannon.The actual use of the vulcans is pretty blink-or-you'll-miss-it but it stood out to me as a neat bit of choreography.
>>22928624The EA pumped billions of dollars into the development of their new 12.5mm vulcans.
>>22928856
>>22928621Ehh, nobody bothered to post it and I have no idea how to search for it on the archive, so I just made a new webm.
>>22928871
>>22928868>>22928856It's very hard to tell with the effects on the screen, but you're right.
>>22928574
>>22928624Remember when Ginns used to be mostly invulnerable to railguns?
>>22928655Victory is edgy nonsense and should be ignored completely for any conversation like this
>>22928856>>22927557I don't think you can explain this with Doga's being budget suits. This is like destroying a tank with a handgun and saying "oh, it was a cheap tank, it's fine."Plus, it's not just the suit getting shredded by vulcans, it's the shield. Even if the suit is lightly armored, the shield is ALL armor. Blocking and absorbing hits is the only thing it does. If it can't even block vulcans then they wouldn't waste their tight budget on them. >>22927869G-Witch had a several tiny, neat bits of choreography. I liked the Darilbalde's anti-beam chaff.
>>22928944>This is like destroying a tank with a handgun and saying "oh, it was a cheap tank, it's fine."Or it was a really, really strong pistol. Or the devs had the "genius" idea to rework vehicle health in a way that turns the game's designated precision weapon into an anti-vehicle weapon too. Because the precision weapon wasn't already the end-all-be-all already.
>>22927869>like even the reactor explosions >>22927480(You) brings up wouldn't really do any meaningful damage to the colony structure(sure if it went off inside the colony it'd do a bunch of damage to more fragile internal components but nothing that would compromise the colony itself)so, exactly how we see it in the shows. No colony was ever destroyed by a MS reactor explosion. But it doesn't need to be completely wrecked to be uninhabitable. Given the sheer volume it's ought to take a few days for a hole like that to drain all the oxygen from the colony, but if you don't have any means to repair that quickly that just means you have a tiny bit more time to evacuate the population of millions.
>>22928659in this case these are machine cannons, which have a fair bit higher caliber than usual vulcans. Common feature in the 90s Gundams starting from F91 and besides Victory.
>>22927286>>22927340Reminder that the Geara Doga stores panzerfausts on the reverse side of its shield. It's likely if not a certainty that the vulcan knicked one of them and caused the explosion.
>>22928985That sounds like a pretty major design flaw if that can consistently happen to one guy with barely aimed Jegan vulcan fire.
>>22928968nta but he meant reactor explosions would be insufficient to breach the colony, which is correctif a unit's reactor blew up while standing inside the colony you'd get a crater and all the houses and underground facilities would be fucked, but you wouldn't get a breach unless you were spectacularly unluckycore explosions aren't shaped charges, a real island 3 would be able to tank them no issuebasically the colonies are made fragile for plot reasons. i think this is acceptable, since mobile suits themselves and many other designs are equally unrealistic
>>22929124>reactor explosions would be insufficient to breach the colony, which is correct>if a unit's reactor blew up while standing inside the colony you'd get a crater and all the houses and underground facilities would be fucked, but you wouldn't get a breach unless you were spectacularly unluckyA Zaku reactor explosion blew a hole in Amuro's colony; I don't think colonies are built to handle internal explosions.That might've just been a really unlucky reaction from beam weaponry though.
>>22929271What he said was it shouldn't if we apply IR.l reasoning but the plot says so.
>>22929124but it's not correct, it's evidently strong enough to blow holes and there's nothing "plot reasons" about a basic fact
One would assume that colonies would have a thicker exterior given that it needs to provide shielding from harmful cosmic radiation and also from regular impacts from meteors, micro or otherwise.But given the lack of understanding about space back then, it's not surprising a lot of that is glossed over in favor of showing how "powerful" regular weapons are that they're capable of breaching a colony wall. Although it's more realistic that if the breach is made via beam weaponry, it possibly slagged any emergency shutters or automated mitigation systems shut.Ironically, SEED is one of those that gets it mostly right; Heliopolis takes damage to its wall but takes time for the colony's air to flow out, only tearing itself apart after too many support cables being destroyed cause its rotation to break itself up. And the attack on Armory One also saw Gaia blow a small hole into the wall to escape (and it also took several shots to finally melt a hole through the thinner, glass/cable wall), but the colony was already preparing to deploy emergency patches to get it sealed up in the aftermath and damage assessment.
We need more space colony purple goo and less cheap ass feds forcing people into space in the lowest bidder colonies.
>>22929297>Ironically, SEED is one of those that gets it mostly right; Heliopolis takes damage to its wall but takes time for the colony's air to flow outso just like UC
>>22929002Not every machine can be perfect.
>>22928655I wonder if anyone will ever cover the difference between late UC armor types; Titanium Alloy Ceramic Composite(EF), Gundarium Alloy Ceramic Composite(EF), Gundarium Alloy Super-Ceramic Composite(LM), Titanium Alloy-High Ceramic Composite(CbV), Titanium Alloy Neo-Ceramic Composite(Bespa), and High-Titanium Alloy/Neo-Ceramic Composite(Bespa). I also wonder how they differ from early uc types of alloys, cermaics and pure Gundarium,
>>22927286He accidentally activated "Hong Kong movie shotgun" mode.
>>22928944Someone really enjoyed adding those little touches to a few fights. Second duel with Guel you can see just before she slices the horn, Suletta takes a second to pass the beam saber from Aerial's left hand to her preferred right.I'm not sure how I feel about the idea of new shows shifting to two cour over four, but if it means more polished animation and each individual fight getting more love like that I can probably live with it.
>>22927613Does that side story explain how the Vulcans shredded an actual unit too? Was that also on 1% HP too? Or is it a reasonable enough explanation that the Geara Doga's armor was just kind of shit?
>>22929770What side story?
>>22929293the colonies in UC are direct copies of o'neill "island 3" cylinders, a design proposed irl. if you read earlier in the thread you'll see i'm saying an actual island 3 would not be that fragileeven without reasonable precaution for accidents, the colony has to be built very sturdily just to keep from tearing apart under its own spinthe colonies in the show are fragile because it allows for shocking "war is bad" moments that drive the plot
>>22928885Wasn't it a glancing blow?I remember it's in one of the first episodes of sneed.
>>22930146Yeah, a lot of it is about visually reinforcing the fragility of space colonisation. It allows a very literal, very visceral way of showing how war is tearing the Earth Sphere apart.Probably the same reason that UC makes such a big deal of relatively realistic orbital mechanics. The fragility of life in space and inherent difficulty of it really needs to be rammed home.
>>22930159No, it went straight into the chest, center mass. There's also the first episode of Stargazer where the retired EA guy says they need to get to extremely close range and fire a triple-burst with their linear tank's railcannon to incapacitate the Ginn that's attacking during the city's flooding from the Junius 7 drop.
>>22927637What is this from, Thunderbolt?
>>22930220Yes, second season I think.
>>22930180
>>22930233There is a second season?
>>22930326Season feels like the wrong word, I'd just call it an 8 episode OVA with a break in the middle. First 4 episodes cover volumes 1 to 3 of the manga and then there was a roughly year long break before they started releasing the last 4 episodes that cover volumes 4 to 7. Then not long after, they did that thing where they repackaged the episodes into movies, which are the definitive version since they added a bit of extra content with extra battle scenes. First 4 episodes were made into a movie subtitled "December Sky" and the last 4 episodes were made into a 2nd movie subtitled "Bandit Flower".https://gundam.fandom.com/wiki/Mobile_Suit_Gundam_Thunderbolt#Season_1
>>22928636Fukuda realized he went too far here. He made beam shields in the movie be able to overheat and break. Also the more you use it, the more you drain you reactor.
>>22930550That should be expected. The beam is generated somehow. It should eat batteries to use and either it breaks and leaves you defenseless until reforming or drains batteries faster.
>>22928643IBO's PD timeline had everyone return to monkey and use physical weaponry typically at short range due to the fact its anti-beam coating had reached a point where beam tech actually breaking through it was completely nonfeasible.
>>22930550>>22930767didn't destiny's beam shield also have that happen and people here bitched to hell and back?
I don't remember beam diffusion gas/smoke being used after the OYW. It would be cool if mobile suits could release it as a countermeasure, like smoke grenades on tanks.
>>22931093None of the Main character Gundam beam shields broke in the TV show. Destiny Gundam's shield never failed in the TV show. Although Fukuda did make the "bad guy" Earth Alliance beam shields break and fail. Which was stupid in hindsight.Glad Fukuda fixed it in the movie. Beam shields are now more of a last resort/emergency thing. It's better to have to use physical shield so you don't drain you battery or overheat your reactor.Even better if your physical shield has a built it in beam shield that you can use if needed.
>>22930331>they never continued TBFucking why? It's my favourite Gundam show/manga
>>22931221Outside of Unicorn OVA episode 6, the only other time we see something similar is in 00 where they have chaff grenades infused with GN particles to block sight and sensors as well as the anti-beam chemical field version.
>>22931229>None of the Main character Gundam beam shields broke in the TV show
>>22931237>None of the Main character Gundam beam shields broke in the TV show
>>22931234That volcano arc was kinda cool, I'd like to see it get animated.
>>22931235
>>22931235It seems so goddamned wasteful to rotate that thing 270 degrees in the same direction it was already rotating, instead of just the 90 degrees in the opposite direction.
>>22931237>>22931239Pretty sure he was talking about Seed. But victory is very mean spirited because Tomino was depressed and just wanted to Gundam to end. The studio kept wanting more Gundam and would try new projects or ideas.
>>22931242I want to see the Nise Gundam vs Perfect Zeong fight. Since the story moved out of Earth and back to space, the manga has been a constant love letter to OG gundam
>>22931251I'm surprised Gundam 00 never made some sort of hybrid GN bullet to counter that. Like a normal bullet on the outside, but has condensed GN particles on the inside. The hard bullet would go straight through the ANTI-GN Smoke and and explode on impact.
>>22931320
>>22931320>I want to see the Nise Gundam vs Perfect Zeong fight. Since the story moved out of Earth and back to space, the manga has been a constant love letter to OG gundamI'm assuming you mean Gundam Thunderbolt ? Ive imported the books from Japan and have read almost all latest chapters.I can absolutely spoil everything if you want. But I will say that the final space battle is one big clusterf*ck. The author hypes it up but doesn't actually give us a true 1v1 fight between the Gundam and Perfect Zeong. Lots of interference. He added a bunch ridiculous drama thars not necessary. I don't know why. I'm very disappointed. The original Gundam VS Zeong from the 1970s show is way better.
>>22931368>Ive imported the books from Japan and have read almost all latest chapters.Same. When I want to nipland, my first book bought in the first kombini I walked in was the full color Gaiden stories,and it was my first time consuming Gundam, so ThunderBolt tickles my autism/nostalgiaSince, I've watched OG, 8th, Z, CCA, Pocket, and Stardust, but ThunderBolt is still my favourite.
>>22931324mate that's literally a GN missile
>>22931235And the same Unicorn episode also shows why it's probably not used more often. Sinanju just switches to using the bazooka. There's a reason missiles and zooks are often the go-to for anti-ship loadouts like Stark Jegan.
>>22931368>true 1v1 fight between the Gundam and Perfect ZeongWhich one? I counted multiple Gundam vs Zeong fights in Thunderbolt.
>>229314091v1 final destination no items fox only
>>22931385>mate that's literally a GN missileMissiles are slower than bullets or cannon shells.
>>22931452NTA but that's real weird given it's a self-propelled thing. Even with mass, it pushes itself. Or why not go the recoilless rifle or railgun route? Fire a cannon projectile with GN explosives inside.
>>22931452>bullets or cannon shells.mate, that's literally just a rocketless rocket
>>22931235The archangel uses it too. Cue the stock footage of Blitz’s beam shots being dispersed away from the hull before one makes it through.
>>22931474Because you’re stupid and don’t get how GN Missiles work. They don’t generally explode on impact.
>>22927637Jegan's vulcan is external mounted gun pod without dimension restriction. In game like gbo2 it scratches twice as hard than typical.>>22927286Not very strong. Some game allow vulcan to be used when holding shield(msgo) or using boosting/airborne(gbo2/msgo) with no weapon draw cool down+better lock to spice things up as internal side arms used situationally.
>>22931674You're totally right, forgot about it. Here's a webm of the scene.
>>22931675Most of the time they don't bother to animate it and they're basically just fairy dust missiles that appear to explode on contact, but I remember there was an episode where they once showed a closeup of how the GN missiles damaged enemies, it basically embeds itself into the enemy and "injects" particles into the target before also exploding itself, but the slow-motion also showed that when it injected the GN particles, it caused the target's armor to swell up and deform. I can't find the episode and I don't remember what was hit with the GN missiles, though.It was definitely a thing since the 00 movie had Kati order everyone to set their GN missiles to proximity explode instead of the normal mode because the ELS would just instantly merge with the GN missiles on contact.
>>22931408I mean, it's not an awful thing to do. Your enemy has both beams and missiles, so you make one of his weapons unusable. The only stupid thing is that even though they can see him switching to the bazooka with a really fancy flip, they are too retarded to try to intercept the incoming projectiles with defensive AA guns.
>>22931675Then make ones who do or don't. We have tech to do that IRL. Impact fuses existed since WWI.>>22932045You'll need to be more specific because there's many. This shot is from a one-eyed Neil in GN Arms Dynames filling GN-Xs full of missiles.
>>22931235This is why the NGN Bazooka in 00 S2 exists.
>>22931235Wtf.Did this missile Launcher just rotate the missile and aim it downwards AT the ship?Why?????That's so stupid. Did the animators think that was cool or something?
>>22932816welcome to unicornfirst time?
>>22932816it IS cool and it makes sense, you want the armored part to be covering from the top, not the exposed machinery
>>22931235>>22931263>It seems so goddamned wasteful to rotate that thing 270 degrees in the same direction it was already rotating, instead of just the 90 degrees in the opposite direction.>>22932816>Did this missile Launcher just rotate the missile and aim it downwards AT the ship?shit like this is peak "mecha" though
>>22933170>shit like this is peak "mecha" thoughYou are sniffing your own farts. Tomino would have called out how stupid this is to aim a missile at your own ship.
>>22931235Weren't they used in Zeta? I seem to remember it.
>>22933223>>22933170>>22932816Literally retarded design. Don't point your munitions at shit you don't plan to destroy. That's very basic and even if you've never touched a gun in your life you should know that.
>>22928879Need the shot of it prying open the door, peeking in and blasting.
>>22932816No? Irritated from pointed relative up to relative left through a clockwise pattern that at one pointed included the missile facing downward for a fraction of a second. Which is not "aiming". The rotation being there so that the missiles can aim in a 360 degree bubble, possibly even with some allowance for another axis of rotation, without having to point the ship physically towards the target. Which is just efficiency, and about as dangerous as twirling a pistol. A thing people have been doing for centuries. Less, really, since there's far less chance of computer error causing a misfire that launches it early compared to human error.
>>22928725>destroying their sensitive machinery when your beam saber gets cockblocked.
>>22928488The original Gundam's are stated to be 60mm. So is the Gun pod on the MK II. If we scale say 30x173mm up to that size, the gundams vulcans should be pretty fucking devastating to just about everything.
>>22932816Whoever did this is a naval sperg who knew the only way to make something like the MK-26 cooler, is to make it able to do a cool spin. https://youtu.be/ogvJUbd26ck
>>22933335>No?What's with the question mark? Anon it's common sense that you don't aim your missile downwards at your own ship.
>>22927286Vulcans are used to destroy cameras and sensors and blind/distract the enemy MS.Any deeper kind of damage is bullshit.
>>22931452Only in fictional media. In reality, even modern-day missiles like the Sidewinder can hit in excess of Mach 2.5. I imagine that futuristic missiles would be even faster, but it wouldn't be cool if you couldn't see the missile coming and dodge it.
>>22931221>>22931235doesn't the DOM have an anti-beam dispersal chest weapon as well?but almost 99% of the time seen it's just used to blind enemies.
>>22933829Gundams don't use those types of missiles. The missiles used in Gundam are more like RPGs, or something like a handheld Javelin shoulder missile Launcher. Which tops out at around 1000 feet per second. While a tank shell fired from an Abrams tank is around 4600 feet per second.
>>22933310I think I'll trust the navy seals over you, bozo
Does heavyarms have the best vulcans?
>>22933833>Scattering Beam Cannon>A beam weapon mounted on the left side of the Dom's chest, the scattering beam cannon was only powerful enough to produce an intense, bright flash that could momentarily blind human eyes and visual sensors. At close range, the beam was also capable of dissipating I-fields, rendering weapons that depended on I-fields to focus and shape a cohesive blade of energy, such as the Beam Saber, inert for short periods.Only useful at close range, beam rifles and such will not be affected.
>>22933829>I imagine that futuristic missiles would be even faster, but it wouldn't be cool if you couldn't see the missile coming and dodge it.Main issue is the missiles and mobile suits can't see each other from afar, and if the missile is going too fast then it can't properly adjust its direction.In Macross, there are no Minovsky particles so they can shoot missiles from afar.
>>22933309Zeta had dummy balloons and adhesive foam spray but I don't recall anti-beam measures.>>22933323Here you go.
>>22933833>>22934317It was so weak that it's not even useful for anti-infantry purposes. It's a reusable flashbang grenade strapped to the Dom's chest for blinding enemies. Can't recall it ever stopping a beam saber though.
>>22933223don't you know tomino's the guy who invented storing explosives in the shields and NOT having them protected by a cover?
>>22934338>It was so weak that it's not even useful for anti-infantry purposes. It's a reusable flashbang grenade strapped to the Dom's chest for blinding enemies.I think it's still somewhat useful for the Dom's purpose; it's basically built for ambushes.>quickly get in enemy base, blind everyone>oneshot enemy VIP with bazooka, heat saber anyone who gets too close>heavy armor tanks a few shots, dodge the rest with superior speed>gtfo and resupply
>>22934338depends on depiction, on some occassions even in original series it fires a beam even if lower powered. Something like that would still fuck up infantry though.
>>22934338>>22933833>>22934317Found the source where they said the Dom's chest beam gun stops beam sabers from working, but it didn't really seem to do much to Amuro's saber in the scene itself, since Amuro stabs one of the Black Tri-Stars right after getting blinded by the diffuse beam.https://mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=16006>The earliest sources, including the original TV script, all described the Dom's chest gadget as a "diffuse beam gun." I checked the TV script, and in the scene where it momentarily blinds Amuro, the scene description says that there's an interference effect between the diffuse beam and Amuro's beam saber - so this dazzling effect may actually be a freak side-effect rather than a standard feature.
>>22935439Yeah, in episode 25 it fires a continuous beam at the Gundam but it doesn't really do much.
>>22927286When are they adding this to gbo2
>>22935455I'm not sure how the I-field reaction happens; the scatter cannon should be a weaker beam weapon, but somehow works against I-fields. I-fields are immune to beam weapons, and beam shields and beam rotors are both based off beam saber technology and should therefore be contained by I-fields.My guess is that it's based off something entirely different, like a different particle output or form of energy that isn't useful in many cases or is normally part of the reaction that powers beam weaponry.>It was said that the beam cannon was originally intended to be an energy port for beam weapons, but was repurposed after the development of beam weapons was delayed.
>>22927286People consistently dodge them even when aimed nowhere near sensors so I dunno.
>>22933889There are no best vulcans.
>>22935494I'm pretty sure the beam saber disabling reaction was not even a thing. It was only ever a sidenote in the storyboard scene, the actual scene as animated doesn't even show it happening, and it's never shown doing it elsewhere in any other appearance. It's just one of those production trivia things, like why Bright's hair occasionally has a green tinge or why explosions are pink, both were apparently the result of studio staff running low on color pigments, green was mixed in to extend the amount of black ink available and because it probably wouldn't be noticeable at the time, and pink was chosen for explosions because they knew they'd have to draw a lot of explosions and it was one of the least-used colors otherwise.
>>22933889I assume it's some beam vulcan that consistently shreds stronger mechs too. Special mention to the GRM Gundam and Gadessa's because they're small enough to easily fit on the arm. They're not as strong as HeavyArms relative to HeavyArms downing Serpents and nobody getting straight-up killed but they deal decent enough damage and are way more compact, not needing reloads either because they're beams,
>>22941600Exia had GN vulcan on the forearms too, and Arios had such large rapidfire guns on its forearms that they were classified as GN submachineguns instead of GN vulcans, and said to have the same performance as the old Kyrio's handheld GN submachinegun
>>22941640>mfw no option to compress the shots into punches
>>22931239That's not a beam shield it's a bead rotor.
>>22941663>bead
>>22941667It's for mardi gras.
>>22941663Beam rotors are beam shields
>>22927286The vulcans on gp02a were op af.
>>22941640I never understood why Ribbons thinks suicide bombing kamikazi guys is better than any other way they could've used all those tau drives. Like you can give each a gadessa laser cannon.
>>22945932It's just his god complex getting off on making people due just cause he can
>>22945932The man's god complex is bigger than his space station ship, he gets off from having hundreds of fanatical soldiers die in his name. It's absolutely not practical but that's not the priority for him.
>>22927308>it's inconsistent as fuck. For the most part they only really manage to damage sensors or sometimes joints, but then there's this scene you posted./thread.
>>22927286Last time we came to a headcanon conclusion that Char just didn't have enough money to have his grunts have good armor
>>22949011Char was partially funded BY Anaheim Electronics. The Geara Dogas were made by AE in secret. So makes sense they are bare minimum quality. Equal to a Jegan but nothing more.
>>22928871based
>>22927286
>>22949014Equal to a Jegan is still way better than a Nemo, Rick Dias or Gaza-C. Better than the standard grunt but not elite grunts. Though Moon Gundam depicts Char as having some Zaku IVs so I bet it was more cost efficient to do Geara Dogas. Maybe he decided to cut corners because he needed money for psychoframes.Given Anaheim helped the AEUG, and AEUG provided Mk IIs for them, Char must've had connections but it looks like Anaheim became significantly more asshole after Zeta. Becoming the Federation's primary MS supplier must've gotten to their heads.
>>22949615>Though Moon Gundam depicts Char as having some Zaku IVs so I bet it was more cost efficient to do Geara Dogas. Maybe he decided to cut corners because he needed money for psychoframes. Maybe Char was still testing things and still trying to decide which suit he wanted to use for his fleet.
>>22949629He may have saw the hole Axis Zeon fell into. The Zaku IIIs and Doven Wolfs are more than usable well into Unicorn but one civil war was enough to soften both for the Federation to mop both of them up with GM IIIs. Or he wanted surprise on his side. Axis dropping was supposed to be big clincher and everything else is just ensuring it worked. If each Geara Doga is about a Jegan in fighting ability, everyone would assume he'd be insane to attack because the numbers disadvantage alone makes victory impossible. Yet another >Gelgoog Uber Grunt mechwould raise eyebrows because then he's not defending against pirates or terrorists but a large-scale military expecting each of his men to fight 5-10 times their number. Using Jegan level grunts would help hide his intentions.Or manchild still obsessed with Lalah that he is, nothing mattered besides Amuro so he doesn't bother with anything not directly connected to his and Amuro's final showdown. So all the money went into psychoframe mechs like the Sazabi and everything else is window dressing. We're probably assuming Char's more rational than he actually is.
>>22949615It was a issue of logistics. The Zaku IV was made by Char's Neo Zeon. At best, Char had only a handful colonies supporting him with their factories. It would be hard to mass produce it for his entire fleet AND provide spare parts.The Geara Doga was made by Anaheim Electronics. They have huge factories and can easily support mass production. They also probably did it for free too...all to support Char and extend the war. So the choice is clear. Geara Doga makes more sense.
>>22949769This tells me Char canonically has both but Geara Dogas outnumber everything else. So long as he can make it look like he has a need that he himself hasn't been satisfying, the war profiteers at Anaheim will give him freebies. They gave the Sleeves freebies too just because they know the Feds would buy from them to counter. Not sure if Char can pull off double-dipping though, or if it's logistically friendly, but he can always have ace machines and grunt mechs. It's not like multiple factions in all of Gundam don't have their elites that share no parts with grunts anyway.
>>22949615Presumably for as much as AE benefitted from facilitating conflict, they didn't see the prospects of a Char victory as being good enough for business to really pull out all the stops. It's possible they were under more scrutiny from the Federation after their involvement in the Gryps conflict and Neo-Zeon war.It's also fully possible that they had more people that were ideologically sympathetic to AEUG, given how their most famous and important facilities are lunar. Titans successfully usurping the EFF command chain and EF government also probably wouldn't be great for business, between their in-house development pipelines and strong feelings on spacenoids doing anything they didn't personally approve of. The support with the MKII wasn't purely one-sided either, part of the deal was that they got a unit for study. It helped them with the issues that'd stalled the Delta and led to Zeta becoming viable. If you believe the various works since from other creators, the Zeta family ended up being a hell of a win for AE. It also wouldn't shock me if the Nemo was useful experience in designing the Jegan.But ultimately almost all of this is just hypothesising because it's fun to try and reason through odd writing decisions in different works.
>>22949919The sheer size of the Federation makes me wonder if they did lose, would there be massive civil wars, splinters, etc. Zeon is far from 100% of all the colonies and the Feds have plenty of colonies themselves.
>>22950021One potential outcome is the at least nominally loyalist colonies taking the chance presented by a weakened or defeat EF to form their own power block. Either claiming the legitimacy of being the Federation-in-exile or becoming a successor state that's happy to be free from the old leadership but also would rather not bend the knee to the space nazis. Depending on circumstances you could then have them either fighting a war of liberation, or focusing on being more like a space-NATO in an Earth Sphere cold war and forming a strong enough deterrent to have Zeon settle for their current holdings for the time being.If you want to be really spicy have them call themselves the Republic of Spacenoids and Zeon rename themselves the People's Republic of Spacenoids and roll in unlimited free publicity forever, all for the price of never being able to visit mainland China again.
>>22931234Yes, because Gundam always needed a mystery meat protagonist with mushroom haircut.
>>22949866>Not sure if Char can pull off double-dipping though, or if it's logistically friendly, but he can always have ace machines and grunt mechs.Neo Zeon isn't as picky as the Federation. Neo Zeon will accept donations from anywhere. Generally as long as the suit has Zeon style looks on the outside. Like Hizack, Marasai, and Barzam. If not, then they will just modify the outside to look more like a Zeon suit. Like they did with Gebera Tetra or Sinanju.
>>22950506And they often don't change it as hard as the Federation does Zeon machines. They'll repaint, add a few sub-arms, maybe upgrades or new armaments like the Zaku III having an extra sub-arm with a beam saber. But the Feds doing work on Zeon machines constantly try to GM or Jegan them up. Logistics benefits along with symbol I suppose. I haven't read anything comparable like trying to frankenstein older machines with more common parts just to make maintenance and repairs easier. The only one I recall with this treatment is the Sinanju Stein -> Sinanju.Neo-Zeon engineers must be renaissance men or constantly pissed with how there's a trillion different machines coming in with different parts and needs and they have to coordinate and repair all of them.>Okay, this is a Geara Zulu. Sure, we have those parts. Anaheim donated them and we scrapped a few for spares so we're set. Just be sure not to use too many, they're more valuable than other outdated machines.>What the fuck? Is that a Gelgoog? What year is this? What lost Zeon colony is running factories for this thing? We don't have a stockpile of OYW parts.>Oh my god, that's a Doven Wolf. Those were hardly made in the same numbers as a Zaku II and with Titans tech too. Where the hell are we going to get the exact parts we need? Fuck. Just improvise something.>A Bawoo? Really? How many of those were made? Well we don't casually keep around Project Zeta rip-off parts for when they survived their ship or colony getting raided by the Feds and coming to allied ships for repairs.
>>22950992I think the overall problem is that UC Technology advances way too quickly. We know the "real life" reason is that Bandai wanted to sell moar models and moar toys. But there is no justifiable "in-universe" reason for the tech advance that fast in just 10 years. Tomino at least had the decency to time jump 8 years with Zeta Gundam (which still doesn't seem like enough time but at least it something). But overall, the technology seems like it needs like twice the amount of time than is presented. Zeta Gundam feels like it could easily take place in the UC 0090s.Same issue with the One Year War. With the sheer amount of building and battles that took place, it really feels like it should be called the "Three Year War" or even Five Year War. It doesn't help that Bandai keeps shoving in more and more Gundams and side stories into the OYW either.
>>22950992The real reason Zeon keeps losing is because the few engineers they don't work to death just kill themselves.
>>22951005There are high intensity conflicts like WWII where the demand for new tanks and planes was so overwhelming and existing kept being destroyed that they constantly rolled out new models and new tech gets advanced significantly. But yeah, the intensity of how many new MS models came out in the OYW alone is way faster. For such a new technology, it's like every colony had their own quantum supercomputer developing new models. How long did designers have to work on their machines? A few months tops? Was the Dom or Gelgoog an existing plan early on but the factories only started much later? It's a spacefaring setting where human population and technology are well beyond WWII but the OYW especially make new machines every other day.Cosmic Era at least had the excuse of genuine genetically enhanced smarter designers (and they're lightspeed too), Anno Domini had 00P just to show how much development went into the S1 Gundams alone, Post Disaster had lots of lost technology, etc. The OYW and Gryps both had quantum leaps from their conflict duration alone. It wouldn't sell more but if it was closer to IRL, more machines would be retrofitted like how 00's GN-Xs (even into the movie's IV) are old models given touch-ups. We'd see more Torrington Base equivalents where it's entirely older machines because they still work and it'd be a waste to throw them away.
This makes me wonder how much representation bias we've been getting. It's usually an elite task force like Titans or Londo Bell or anyone who'd get the fanciest new shit first. The grunts are probably using the normal mechs and not some advanced prototype that failed to replace the Jegan.
>>22927286Apparently there is some side story manga that shows us that this specific Geara Doga was already heavily damaged and the shield was about to break too. The pilot was trying to Blitz the Ra Calium in revenge for Rezin (?) - the blue Geara Doga Commander getting killed earlier. By the time this Geara Doga made it to the Ra Calium, Hathaway just finished it off.
>>22927286Not Vulcans but long guns are still perfectly strong into Crossbone Era. The Shot Lancers use physical projectiles and the F90's minigun can shred an RF Dom. But I don't know if they ever specified what caliber. The F90's guns are guaranteed way bigger than vulcans or Zaku machineguns but we still don't know.
>>22951019Is this an actual tidbit in the lore or fan logic?
>>22951775Given the size of the barrel and the smaller size of the suit, it's not impossible for the gatling to be 90mm or something like that.
>>22951775Zabine kills Annamarine by using the vulcans built into his shot lancer's grip to shred her cockpit.
>>22927637I love the smell of slagged zeke MS in the vacuum.
>>22950101It's okay he's the bad guy.Zeon are always bad though so.
>>22957991You seriously misunderstand shell sizes. A Zaku machine gun barrel is big enough to fire 18 inch shells or 500mm shells. It should be firing battleship shells. The barrel is enormous.
>>22958028Again, that's a you problem, I don't have a problem with it.
>>22958028established canon > animation errors
>>22958035>>22958062Lmao. Have you even held seen a 90mm shell? It's not that big like in your picture you are claiming. Human loaders regulary throw around much bigger shells like the 120mm and 150mm shells. This >>22957991 barrel is clearly much bigger than 90mm. Especially when compared to the rest of the suit and a human size.
>>22928584Imagine if they were paintballs instead
>>22958099But this isn't build fighters.
>>22957977It's just me taking the piss, though stuff like the 'unified maintance project' being introduced to canon suggests the logistics nightmare has occurred to some of the people writing for Sunrise at various points too.
>>22958035This is a real life 120mm shell. It is small enough that a human being can carry one by hand.
It's time to retire vulcans.
>>22958139
>>22958104>>22958099
>>22958502
Stomach bullets GO
>>22958679Rocket... paunch?
>>22958861
Where is vulcan ammo stored, anyway?
>>22959777Usually next to the gun, GMs tended to show them loaded in blocky cases. Other types of vulcans might have been belt-fed from a nearby container.
>>22958861Heh.
>>22950992Now that I think about it, rereleasing tons of pseudo-RF versions of old mechs would be a way to sell old designs while pretending they're new but that means IRL logistics of making possible different molds for plastic. But Bandai already does that. We already have tons of alternative versions of the same machines. There's models Unicorn versions of Zaku IIs even so all that would mean is a possible in-universe justification for old looking mechs fighting on-par with recent mechs.And it'd be a cheap and easy explanation for anyone to buy. Just say "The exterior looks like X but new updates so the internals and everything is better" and maybe swap out any heat weapons for beam and you're set.
>>22950992This isn't 100% true. Thunderbold canonicity aside, Zeta Gundam is absolutely packed with Federation MS that just use monoeyes, from numerous Zeon MSV like the Zaku Tank and Gouf Flight Type to newer Gryps-era or late OYW machines like the Galbaldy and Asshimar, as well as Hizacks which are explicitly EF (blue) rather than Titans (green)
>>22961742Hizacks are a new mech from Anaheim who absorbed tons of Zeonic engineers. The GMs were EF created designs. Anyone employing post OYW Anaheim would find experienced men who know how to make and maintain Zeon machines. Prior to getting Mk2 parts stolen from the Titans, Anaheim had no samples of that style of Movable Frame. Speaking of such, it's likely there are OYW Fed and Zeon machines that straight up can't be frankensteined without fabricating a tailor-made replacement given armor isn't just armor but actually necessary to the function in some way.
>>22961786I mean yeah, but what I'm trying to emphasize is that a ton of machines in Zeta Gundam in EF use are just out-and-out Zeon designs with little to no apparent mechanical Feddification going on except for new paintjobs.
>>22961808Given they captured sites like Solomon, I assume they have tons of stockpiled parts. The sheer scale of the OYW is beyond Gryps or any of the Neo-Zeons.
>>22960462>Zaku II KaiMan, the 0080 machines are so fascinating because apparently (the Alex and the Kampfer aside) they weren't supposed to be new models altogether, they were just supposed to be the same machines but in a different artstyle. It wasn't supposed to be an all new Zaku II that for some reason got produced in fucking December 0079 instead of a Rick Dom or a Gelgoog, it was just a Zaku II and in 0080 that's what the Zaku II always looked like. Same with the Gelgoog Jaeger, the Rick Dom II, the Hygogg, the Z'Gok E, even the federation machines. That's why none of them ever get called anything but the name of the base model of the machine, and none of the original 0079 versions show up even in background shots, because the new versions ARE the original models.But they needed some way to differentiate them from the originals as gunpla/toys, so they gave them special names, and as such they're now unique special "super late OYW" models, which is especially retarded with the Gelgoog because the Jaeger appears at the same time the original Gelgoog did.
>>22963334The only real way to justify it (barely, consider the retardedly-short timetable of the war) is to say it's the equivalent of mad Nazi science pumping out obscene amounts of experimental prototype MS in extremely limited runs to try and turn the tide in any way possible. Gelgoogs were Gelgooging, but a few engineers were convincing enough to allow modifications during assembly to a line of maybe 12 or so to be rolled out as Jaegers. Shit like that.
>>22963334Eh, a bunch of that has been debunked over the years. At the earliest stages of 0080's development, it's true that the Zaku FZ design was intended to be a facelift retcon of the original Zaku, but at some point they shifted gears so that the Zaku and the other designs like the Gogg and Z'Gok became separate variants before the first episode was released.https://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?p=268638&sid=af063bc123a026a87b92c5df032d8c6d#p268638
>>22963334>"super late OYW">>22963356>it's the equivalent of mad Nazi science pumping out obscene amounts of experimental prototype MS in extremely limited runs to try and turn the tide in any way possibleHonestly them having crazier and more advanced shit towards the end of the war makes zero since, if anything they should have been downgrading their units to produce as much as humanly possible, just look at how Germany and Japan did so with their weapons towards the very end of WW2.
>>22963753>Honestly them having crazier and more advanced shit towards the end of the war makes zero since, if anything they should have been downgrading their units to produce as much as humanly possible, just look at how Germany and Japan did so with their weapons towards the very end of WW2.Even if they managed to mass-produce cheaper mobile suits, they didn't have enough well-trained and/or skilled pilots to effectively use them. Training takes time that they didn't have; the Federation mitigated this issue by using the Gundam's data for their GMs.
>>22963775Federation also had a much deeper talent pool to pull from. More people, more pilot candidates. Plus cross-training from a Ball or fighter would probably save time versus training from scratch.
If Amuro and Sleggar wasn't around to stop Big Zam, how much damage could Dozle have done to the Federation fleet? Assuming no other heroes show up to replace Amuro and Sleggar and Big Zam continued rampaging, what was the likely outcome? Could it wipe out the entire Invading Federation fleet?
>>22963868Eventually it runs out of power, there's no way its firepower and defenses can be sustained for a long period of time.Zeon's biggest mistake is not properly defending their mobile armors with a powerful mobile suit escort force.
>>22963900But could it destroy the attacking Federation fleet before it runs out of power or overheats or whatever?
