So I keep finding people who say that Nanrise meddles with their own shows to "Make them more Gundam". What's "more Gundam" even supposed to mean? They're already Gundam shows, aren't they?
When was the last time this actually happened? 00 S2?
>>22936125It's something I've seen yelled at for every new millennium Gundam.
It basically means they force them to have use more tropes/references or similar themes than they otherwise would
>>2293610100s1 to 00s2 is the big one where people cry that. And the changes there are obvious - like the storytelling moving on from showing the world impact of the events to just focusing on the cast, the A-Laws being pretty much Titan, redoing the Cybernewtype girlfriend enemy plotline...I don't think anything similar was said about other series - in those cases it's really more people complaining about Gundam being Gundam.
>>22936167I was noticing 00 becoming more stereotypical before season 2 even started. I mean, the Trinitys are blatantly the junkies from Seed and Destiny again, and Saji and Louise's story goes from being this rom-com in the middle of a war story to being a traumatic gutpunch to the viewer.
>"I really hate how modern Gundam shapes are so standard human shape.">conveniently ignores the nonstandard shapes they don't like I hate talking Gundam because half of the time you're either serving as a wiki article for someone else or you're talking to a turbo autist who is supposedly pulling from JP onry supplementary material and if you try to argue any points with them they'll just loop the conversation until you back off.Mecha exists to draw people in because "waow cool robot", but Gundam's curse is insisting that it's more than that while being EXTREMELY vague on almost every talking point. It leaves viewers to discuss only what actually happened, because there's much inconsistency between characters supposed thoughts and their actions.Unlike a book that's written by one person, and sometimes more than a little help from an editor, you've got a whole staff of individuals piecing shit together to make anime work. What you end up with is something that might be fun to watch but any intended morals or messages can easily be lost in a script where there's no consistency in what's being shown to the audience. At any given time it's difficult to tell if you're being presented a narrative and supposed to understand that a character's words are a direct view to their inner feelings or if they are being presented as a flawed human being who's never quite at peace with themselves and what they say and do will more often conflict than coincide. TL;DR If you want your worldview challenged and imagination stimulated, read a book.>>22936146Most media is chalk full of references. Even ancient literature keeps alluding to other stories the audience should be familiar with. Long running series tend to become so self referential it's basically masturbation.WfM threw in some token references but none were really out of place given the weird megacorp aristocrat setting.SEED in comparison makes it's identity on being something of an alternate timeline to MSG.
>>22936170People complain about this a lot, but I actually thought it made sense. The idea behind 00 was that we're seeing a Gundam world at an earlier point in its history than we usually start at, where Earth isn't united and space travel is still fairly limited. I kind of expected it to get more and more like other Gundam shows as time went on going in.
>>22936215>hurr 00 was gonna be a UC prequelCan you stop this
>>22936211>If you want your worldview challenged and imagination stimulated, read a book.But how do I know the book I read isn't going to be crap?
>>22936240That isn't even what the post said or was implying. Are you a retard?
>>22936215That doesn't make any sense. Being more derivative isn't a story narrative.
>>22936246Are you having fun reading a book? Then it's a good book. Are you not having fun reading a book? Then it's a bad book. Anything deeper is territory of intellectual fart-sniffers and navel-gazers.
It means even as far back as 00, audiences were fucking retarded mouth breathers.
>>22936356Usually when I read books, I get overwhelmed trying to mentally rephrase dialogue and prose more to my liking.
I've only heard people mention this in regards to G no Reconguista being turned into a Gundam series, at least far as I can remember. Recurring themes and ideas (Earth is being invaded, the Gundam is a special one off prototype, there's a mystery nigga in a mask, the protagonist was a civilian until 5 minutes ago) just feels like the teams wanting to reference the franchise. Obviously Banrise has some kind of standards or criteria a Gundam property has to meet in some way, just like every other long running franchise, but I don't think they're holding their creators at gunpoint to throw in another Gundam.
>>22936101Bandai wanted more Gundam series to evoke classic MSG, because for the longest time, every other Gundam series was supposed to funnel fans back to MSG and UC. They straight up stated it as such in several interviews in the past.With SEED, it was mostly serving as a reset of Gundam in Japan, and was a literal make or break moment. They included as many references as they could, but putting new spins to most of them. It worked so well SEED is generally seen as equal or superior to classic UC in many places (obviously, different strokes for different folks).With 00S2, that's due to the Execs panicking at the initial mixed reception 00S1 got for being so dramatically different, so they literally forced Mizushima's hand. Mizushima himself politely badmouthed Bandai in some of his post series interviews, stating they forced him to include more Gundam tropes and references, so he maliciously complied with a weeb gajin and some other half-hearted inclusions. Ultimately, the fans complained about 00S2 being "too Gundam" and Mizushima said he was given back control over the movie, though he had to adapt it to fit what he did in S2.G-Reco reportedly also suffered from being Gundam'd up; Tomino had a very different early vision for it, but what was animated differed from the early concept stuff he was putting out, because reportedly Bandai was hoping for another home run that could revive UC.AGE was a modern retelling of MSG-CCA in a rushed 50 episode run, and incorporated almost every possible UC trope in it. Fortunately or unfortunately, it crashed and burned so hard Bandai basically buried it, refusing to really acknowledge it for any of its anniversaries. It was also by demand of Bandai too; AGE was conceived as a modern MSG-CCA retelling because, in their words, they weren't selling as many kits and mecha stories were being seen as out-of-style. So they tried to pander to kids with the art style and all the interactive stuff they were trying out.
>>22936418>AGE was conceived as a modern MSG-CCA retelling because, in their words, they weren't selling as many kits and mecha stories were being seen as out-of-style.So their idea to pander to kids was to make a show with tropes and storylines that would only alienate kids? Wasn't half the reason for ZZ amping up the comedy due to falling ratings and a sense from both fans and creators that Zeta wasn't actually fun?
>>22936418>SEED is generally seen as equal or superior to classic UChow disappointing
>>22936461>Wasn't half the reason for ZZ amping up the comedy due to falling ratings and a sense from both fans and creators that Zeta wasn't actually fun?official TV ratings for years rated zeta higher than MSG so falling ratings is bullshit to begin with, and ZZ averaged lower ratings than zeta because let's be honest, no one tunes in to MSG and zeta looking for comedy, so they sure as fuck wouldn't do it for ZZhttps://aeug.blogspot.com/2004_11_01_aeug_archive.html#110060731014068978
>>22936531>official TV ratings for years rated zeta higher than MSGKeep in mind the original tv Gundam run ended up cancelled. The one people would be comparing it with would be the reruns.Nagoya regionAverage rating (original 4/7/79 ~ 1/26/80 run): 9.1%Average rating (3/5/80 ~ 5/2/80 rerun): 17.1%Average rating (1/7/81 ~ 3/9/81 rerun): 14%Average rating (7/20/81 ~ 9/15/81 rerun): 15.4%Average rating (2/1/82 ~ 4/2/82 rerun): 25.7% (highest in this period was 29.1%)Kantou regionAverage rating (original 4/7/79 ~ 1/26/80 run): 5.3%Average rating (2/16/80 ~ 4/17/81 rerun): 13.1%Average rating (11/3/81 ~ 1/18/82 rerun): 17.9%Mobile Suit Gundam (original airing)Highest rating: 9.9%Average rating: 5.3%Mobile Suit Zeta GundamHighest rating: 11.7%Average rating: 6.6%
>>22936531>>22936538They're a bit naive if they felt that it would be possible to keep maintaining TV ratings of 25% which is amazing, but not impossible. In any case, ZZ was not about trying to boost failing ratings about not being fun, but a request from Bandai to try to capture younger audiences because Bandai wants more money.https://ultimatemark.com/gundam/production/gundamzz.html>According to Great Mechanics Vol.6, this change in tone was a request from Bandai, aimed at bringing in younger viewers and boosting merchandise sales. Here, Katsumi Kawaguchi of the Bandai Hobby Products Department recalls:>Nowadays, Mobile Suit Z Gundam is highly regarded as a work, and the merchandise is also popular. But during the broadcast, we started seeing a merchandising decline around autumn. Nonetheless, it had been decided that Z Gundam would run for four cours, and to Bandai the Gundam brand was too valuable to abandon. So we told the Sunrise side, "We want you to do another sequel and continue the Gundam title." At that point we began discussing what we should do after Z Gundam was over. From then on, there was also talk within the company that "the story of Z Gundam is too difficult" and "the story is too dark." Based on those opinions, we talked with Sunrise about how we should proceed in the next year after Z Gundam.>Thanks to the success of the movies, Gundam had already transformed into a character that even children recognized. In that respect, our expectations may have been too optimistic. As a result, with Z Gundam we began to see a decline in a brand that had previously boasted steadfast popularity, and there was confusion within the company, as people said "It wasn't supposed to be like this." Thus there was talk that, to some extent, the upcoming new Gundam also had to consider children as part of the target demographic. So we said to Gundam's producer, Mr. (Kenji) Uchida, "How about a light Gundam that will be easier for kids to understand?"
>>22936211>but Gundam's curse is insisting that it's more than that while being EXTREMELY vague on almost every talking point.???
>>22936531>no one tunes in to MSG and zeta looking for comedyBecause they were tuning in for mecha action.
>>22936461The idea was to make a kiddie game that had a full-length plot spanning 3 generations, with an anime that served as a 50 episode long teaser. The problem was that the executives fell for Level 5's marketing and thought it'd make them money and bring new fans to Gundam. The game was released too late to matter, despite by all accounts the story was very good and far more cohesive than the anime, their multiple Gunpla projects failed to sell, and the half-assed anime story further turned off many fans and saw a drop in interest among potential fans. It also doesn't help that part of the big plan was to feature the most boring Wears in the anime, as they wanted fans to play the game, vote on their favorite Wears, then Bandai would make the kits of those Wears.Then Bandai basically did Build with zero expectations of it being a hit; with the anime meant to just focus on the kits and feature cameos of a bunch of past characters from other Gundam series. And it ironically became more successful in reviving Gunpla sales than their last major investment (AGE) did. Then increased investment led to Try, which didn't go as well, and then the soft reset with Divers further saw them losing the fanbase's interest again, so they finally pivot to a more serious story with ReRise, and it saved the Build series.
>>22936211Given all the allusions to The Tempest, I'm shocked there wasn't a MS named after the play itself. It works pretty well for one too, and can be easily appended to another kind of suit or preexisting design. It's also weird how localizers decided to change the terminology for some suits when there was no real need to.Ultimately, though, I think you're kind of glossing over the fact of how turbo-tunnel-visioned some autists get. They see the Gundam name and then immediately level expectations for it. If something has the Gundam name, it isn't allowed to try and do its own thing. If it does, it gets panned and trashed for erring from its roots. Hell, it's not even strictly Gundam anime that suffers from this. Kyoukai Senki got roasted by people who saw the Sunrise name attached to it and just wanted more Gundam.
>>22937101>Given all the allusions to The TempestI'm not very familiar with The Tempest but the impression I got from watching people discuss the show was that they never really followed through beyond references. >Kyoukai Senki got roasted by people who saw the Sunrise name attached to it and just wanted more Gundam.It doesn't help that Kyoukai Senki was rather bland at the end, which makes it easier for those types of criticisms to gain headway in my opinion.
>>22936757Can you stop repeating the popular narrative? Being a videogame tie-in is no excuse for terrible writing. From what it looks like, the lead creatives were incompetent and had no idea what their demographics were, while the writers were totally sapped of any creativity and just smushed a bunch of Zeta and Seed tropes because it's what they liked and/or thought was inherently successful. How else would you explain all the dead women besides a bunch of socially inept nerds being nostalgic for Zeta Gundam?
>>22937551Misogyny?
>>22941039That seems like too easy an answer, though. Plus you're 4chan. You love hating women.
>>22936125Gwitch S2 and the series lenght in general. I have seen mentioned that G reco wasn?t meant to be a gundam show at first but by executive meddling it became one.
>>22942805No, that’s the exact opposite of what happened with G-Witch. The original concept of the series was a more traditional Gundam war setting but Bandai asked for something lighter that would appeal more to teenagers so they changed it to a school
>>22936125AGE
