Why were they bad exactly?
>>23011940They dropped a colony on people who had nothing to do with their war
They manipulated Colonists into thinking they were fighting a war for independence when they were really fighting for Zabi hegemony
>>23012003But UC tells me the soldiers are really fighting for independence.
>>23012006Neo Neon was
>>23012001Ok but what about before that?
>>23011940They loved liberty far too much
>>23011940>gas colonists>attack neutral colonies unprovoked >be a major contributer to the deaths of 50% of humanity>cause massive destruction whenever people unite for Zeon However, Haman is on the side of zeon... so Zeon did nothing wrong!!!
>>23011940>keeps dropping colonies full of innocent people on Earth>gassed innocent people>lie to their people (Cima)>think they are special just because they are minority>think the Earth is their promised land>genocidal religion and philosophy>they follow a backstabbing lying family (Zabi) instead of the peaceful man (Zeon Zum Deikun) because they are superiority-complex fagsthere's literally nothing good about zeeksthey are just the Gundam version of Israeli
>>23012101Yeah but Zakus are cool
gassing colonies, systematic discrimination and genocide is only okay when the Feddies do it because they're the good guys
>>23012001But Australia is a blemish to the Earth?
>>23012001I hate cry baby shit like this. it’s fucking war, kill em all. It’s only wrong if you loose
>>23013950Well Zeon did lose.
>>23011940Real answer right here, OP >>23013966
>>23013950Zeon wasn't "at war" with Side 1, Side 2 or Side 7 and yet they still fucked up their shit.
At least zeon doesn't use child soldiers, unlike the detestable federation
>>23013975These aren’t even the independent colonies. Side 1 was home to the federation administration and side 7 is a weapons testing facility
>>23013992Explain side 2.
>>23013966So did Japan.
>>23012101>they are just the Gundam version of IsraeliThat's Anaheim.
>>23014248Anaheim would be more like lockheed martin in this case anon. Zekes are Israeli because yes the federations answer to keep them at bay is "appeasing" them (literally the plot to CCA)
In the original lore, the Feds is a racist organization formed by the USA and Western Europe. The forced migration policy they did in the early UC years was almost exclusively implemented on non-white nations in the Federation. So most of the Side residents were non-whites. After the non-whites were gone, whites moved into their lands like Africa. This lead to resentment among the few locals that are left and that's why Africa was so anti Fed and safe haven for Zeon remnants. So Zeon vs Fed is basically a race war in space. Too bad the creators didn't have the guts to go through with it and this crucial piece of info is pretty much omitted in modern UC lore. So tell me, who's the bad guy now?
>>23013977>zeon didnt use child soldiersYou should look up the flannigan institute
>>23014263Go back.
>>23014248>playing both sides and Sideschecks out
>>23014263Japanese Nationalism
>>23014011All the sides had Federation forces and garrisons. There was no true neutral side. And the ones claiming to be neutral were lying.
>>23012038They gassed a spacenoid colony
>>23012080The AEUG and the Federation gave them the Colonies. Did you forget the end of Zeta Gundam?>Neo Zeon please Help us defeat the Titans and you can have these coloniesThen during ZZ the Federation was happy that Neo Zeon Colony dropped Earth. Literally didn't lift a finger to stop them, and after it was done the Federation officials saw billions of dead people and said:>Good! Now we have less mouths to feed!
>>23014263>So most of the Side residents were non-whites. After the non-whites were gone, whites moved into their lands like Africa. This lead to resentment among the few locals that are left and that's why Africa was so anti Fed and safe haven for Zeon remnants.This is bad because.. IT JUST IS, OKAY!
>>23014248No it's AEUG. In the first draft of zeta gundam the leader of AEUG was a Jew and his real goal was to start a Jewish nationalist movement within the Federation. It's removed in later revisions for obvious reasons.
>>23014336Bad or not, it would be a lot more interesting to go into that direction than what we got. It would've explained why Zeon and then later Titans have no problem committing war crimes on civilians. Too bad it's hidden in some random lore book that nobody would ever read.
>>23014263holy shit, i kneelGundam was zeekwank from the get go
>>23013950The war didn't even happen yet dipshit, they literally did that just because they could
>>23014351Giving Zeon and the Titans that sympathetic of a reason is still retarded because you're still saying they're somewhat justified in killing off literally millions of people over shit they had nothing to do with. That's probably why that reason isn't stated at all in official UC stuffIt makes it way more interesting that they're just doing it because people are opportunistic dickheads, sometimes you don't need some flowery reason to want to bully people. It's also more realistic that they may not even remember the original reason and just make up their own as things go on
>>23014263>>23014339Are we just making shit up now?
It's really hilarious that BILLIONS DIED because the Federation would not give Side 3 a few seats in the Federation Senate so they could Vote on laws and have representatives. The Federation would rather 60% of the human race DIE than give Spacenoids a tiny sliver of voting power.
>>23011940Because they lost, mostly.
>>23014339You are both right, he was both the head of the aeug and AE in that draft.
>>23014293I was just referring to Zeon with the 50% of humanity number. Axis didn't attack neutral colonies while Zeon did. The flag is a Zeon flag so I made points against Zeon.
>>23014286That is a dumb reason. It is like nuking a country because they have an emissary for your enemy. Remember, Zeon attacked everyone 15 minutes after they declared war. The only reason why Side 6 was spared was because Zeon was far away from them and thus they had enough time to announce their neutrality.
>>23014263Source?
>>23013948No that's India.
>>23014655>Remember, Zeon attacked everyone 15 minutes after they declared warthree seconds, not 15 minutes>The only reason why Side 6 was spared was because Zeon was far away from them and thus they had enough time to announce their neutrality.side 6 announced independence in UC0077 and was already no longer federation property when the war began. side 6 not being attacked has nothing to do with how far away from side 3 it was, especially when side 2 was being attacked at the same time
>>23011940Isn't the entire point of Gundam that there are rarely protagonist or antagonist factions that are 100% good or 100% bad (save for maybe AEUG and Titans)? Both sides cause innocent and civilian deaths caught in the middle.
>>23014661Gundam Fact File issue #44.
>>23012101>keeps dropping colonies full of innocent people on EarthHey now, we all know that's not true.They either gassed the colony inhabitants first, or forcefully evicted and displaced the populace.For the glory of Zeon!
>>23014748Both Zeon and the Federation are bad, but Zeon is more antagonistic.Unless you're focusing on the little people working under Zeon, then they're the victims.
>>23014761it's okay, zeta gives time for the feds to become more antagonistic
>>23014484>It's really hilarious that BILLIONS DIED because the Federation would not give Side 3 a few seats in the Federation Senate so they could Vote on laws and have representatives. No, billions died because of these fuckers, and millions more would continue to die because of the horrible people who worshipped them long after they died from their own hubris.
>>23014765you could make an argument the Titans are only considered The Federation by association, same way the AEUG is also considered the Federation by association.The Titans are for all intents and purposes an autonomous organization.
>>23014770nigga you might as well say side 3 are also federation by association because they were feds for most of their existence and only became autonomous from the feds for a couple of years before starting a war with the feds
>>23014776In a way you just reaffirmed what I said.Side 3 was in fact the Federation up until Zeon happened, same way the anybody in the Titans was just a normal Federation soldier until they joined the Titans.
>>23014776The Titans don't answer to the Federation, they answer to Jamitov, who by then doesn't answer to anybody in the Federation.
>>23014780titans and feds didn't have a proper falling out until about december 0087 so any actions before then can be attributed to the feds who were still the parent organization who funded and provided for the titans up until that point
>>23014781this is some char aznable "I didn't betray you because I was secretly never on your side to begin with" kinda logiceven if you know that jamitov was on a power trip and the titans were his private army, that doesn't absolve the feds of all responsibility. the feds knew what was going on and not only didn't fight it, they took part in it by covering up the 30 bunch incident and continuing to grow the titans in size and power
>>23013950westerners call it a "truth nuke"
>>23014794burgers will complain they got pearl harbor'd and 9/11'd because "it had nothing to do with us" and then press buttons and unleash shit on the wrong country's people because "they deserved it in advance"
>>23014263Ill need a quote on the racial thing, far as its always been shown its always been a class thing
>>23014655>That is a dumb reason. It is like nuking a country because they have an emissary for your enemy.The USA nearly did it with Cuba.
>>23014766Entire wars have been fought in real life over the lack of voting representation. Look at the USA's Revolutionary War. The Federation could have prevented all those deaths if they simply gave the Colonies some voting seats in the Federation Senate. Even a few token seats would have prevented those deaths. Any Spacenoids independence movement would have lost their reason to fight by being allowed to have representatives in the Senate.But Federation refused to do so even after billions died.
>>23014831See above. It's both. In the book, it was explained Federation was a USA-created, Western-dominant organization. Many developing countries did not want to join the Federation or participate in the space colonization program. The Federation explained the program was about saving Earth's environment. These developing countries were like WTF the environment was destroyed by the West why should we pay the price with you? Then the program was promised to take everyone to space, leaving only the essential people to monitor and fix Earth. However the Federation abruptly stopped the program after many non-whites were sent to space. It wasn't explained why the program was stopped but the people left on Earth just happened to be white Westerners and the global elites. Then some of these Westerners moved into previous non-white nations such as Africa and were given the slur name 'Frank' by the few locals that remained. There's a similar situation in the Middle East as well so these two areas became the origins of the anti-Federation resistance movement, long before Zeon was even a thing.
>>23014983You're telling me Feddies were the good guys all along?
>>23014484Not really, that assumes the federation knew in advance that denying a few seats would result in WMDs being thrown around and operation British commencing within an hour
>>23014748The only ones that are that 50/50 are X where both governments are about as antagonistic and SEED where it's more about the neutral enlightened island nation being morally upstanding (and the only occasion where they're not is when someone aligned with one of the evil governments takes power)Most of the others have a pretty clear bias as to whoever causes the most problems as escalates the situation to the point of killing millions
>>23015139Yes really. And even after the One Year War, the Federation SHOULD have learned their lesson.>WOW these colonies really hated not having voting rights in the Senate and killed half of humanity. We barely won the One Year war. Should we make changes to prevent this from happening again?>Federation response: Nah>0083 happens. Hundreds of Millions die. Billions starveNah>Gryps war happens. Spacenoids revolt at the Titan Police force you setup. Nah>Char gives speech and begs you to listen to Spacenoids and to stop hiding on EarthNah>Neo Zeon war happens.Nah>Another Colony drop happens again and hundreds of millions dieNah>Char drops a small Asteroid on Earth and it hits China and destroys entire citiesNah>Char tries to drop a bigger Asteroid on Earth and is only stopped by a literal miracle and the sacrifices of many heroesNah>Real Federation Constitution is revealed that actually says Spacenoids should get voting rights. Turns out Federation wrote a fake constitutionNah>Rogue Organization called Mafty starts executing Political officials who won't support SpacenoidsNahThe Federation are idiots.
>>23015139The federation should have known about it after the 3rd time it happened.
>>23015156I was gonna say Witch from Mercury was also 50/50, since it didn't have any purely villainous characters on either space or Earth side. Then I remembered it had Space Assembly League causing most of the troubles by recruiting Shaddiq, arming Earthnoid terrorists with Gundams, allying with Peil, and straight-up firing a giant laser.
>>23015159No one really tried real Zeon
I love Australia.Theyre the closest people who would have made mobile armors irlLiterally big zams on wheels and they nuked them
>>23015585>Australia.>Theyre the closest people who would have made mobile armors irlThis is why the EFF almost never built mobile armors.
>>23015615Damn zeeks. They robbed us of a OYW equivalent of the Bob Semple tank
>>23015159Feddies aren't idiots. They are just selfish assholes. They always end up on top whenever they ignore/don't concede to the spacenoids acting uppity and asking for them to give them REAL concessions ( them "acknowledging" Neo Zeon's rule isn't a concession).See OYW:>Zeon rulers died Operation Stardust: >Zeon rebels got exterminated>have an excuse to oppress colonies Gryps War:>brought Neo-Zeon out of hiding>got rid of uppity Feddie members Neo Zeon War:>resulted in the complete submission of ZeonAxis' Plot:>disgraced the biggest Zeon war hero>removed most of Zeon's power>greatly diminished the power of the uppity Londo BellCross Bone saga (F91):>got rid of uppity spacenoidsZanscare Invasion:>wiped out side 2 rulers>didn't need to raise a finger
>>23015733Did you forget that that Federation GAVE all of Side 3 (and more) to Neo Zeon? All for their help to defeat the Titans. The Feds literally traded away Federation citizens.
>>23014263White Based and Fedpilled
>>23011940Maybe it was the colony drop thing?
>>23015808There is literally nothing wrong with dropping a colony on south america or australia.
>>23015733I think the issue is that they come on top each time but billions still died, you'd think that would be a good enough motivator.
How would things in Zeon have gone if the Zabi's weren't in charge?
>>23017167Im guessing Zeon would be more like Trotsky so he'd try to get all Sides under their thumb so Gas-Drop isnt as likely, probably more concerned with creating chokepoints between Surface-Space travel, forcing the Feds into an impasse and using subversives to preach the word of newtypes everywhere. Of course just because the Zabi's arent in charge doesnt mean they wont be urging Zeon to invade Earth if at least to take down their Mass drivers
>>23011940So is Zeon movement dead now in late UC?
>>23017287How late are we talking because I'm not sure if it's even a concept in Turn A.
>>23015159>Rogue Organization called Mafty starts executing Political officials who won't support SpacenoidsMafty's primary goal is not "supporting spacenoids," it is forcibly emigrating the population of Earth.
It's amazing how retarded Gundam fans are, that they have to headcanon some heroic struggle to pretend that 0079 has an ounce of moral ambiguity to it. There's no "moral greyness" here. Dr. Hell is less evil than Zeon, at least he didn't literally wipe out half of humanity. Even the west's ultimate bogeyman in Hitler had more going for him than Zeon, at least he improved living conditions for Germans. There isn't any sign of Zeon achieving that for spacenoids, especially since they primarily targeted spacenoids apparently by destroying colonies. You can like Zeon aesthetics while acknowledging that they are the bad guys, you know. Star Wars fans figured that out before 0079 came out. >>23015159The logic on display here is mindboggling. "Why didn't America just stop oppressing Arabs after they did 9/11, they must have been really angry?" Legitimising violence and devastation on that scale only encourages some other idiots to try again. That might be the only realistic thing about UC Gundam. >>23015820This is such an unfunny shit post, it makes me wonder. If you're an American, like most posters on this site, why are you so stupid as to resent perhaps the only two regions on earth that actually look up to your terrible country and are steadfast allies and economic partners at their own detriment? If you're European/Asian... Well, then I understand why you would think that, so carry on.
>>23017367And before anyone says "WELL UMM ZEON'S IDEOLOGY WAS GOOD!!" Consider that the leaders of Zeon purposefully killed the guy who came up with the ideology, and then proceeded to target spacenoids in spite of the fact that the ideology said everyone should live in space. Plenty of those spacenoids were probably newtypes in waiting as well. There is literally no justification for Zeon, and to pretend otherwise is pure headcanon garbage and psuedointellectual trite aimed at pretending your show for children is far deeper than it really is.
Both sides are fucked, but Zeon is slightly more fucked.Slightly.
>>23017374Not according to Turn A Gundam. The Colonies got sick of Earth trying to control them. So they turned their Colonies into intergalactic ships and left the Solar System.Then Earth screwed themselves over with civil war, and hyper nuked themselves back to the Stone Age.
>>23017395By V Gundam Zeon is long gone and the EF is a nothingburger that lets invaders walk all over them, I would not be surprised if another faction took its place well before the colonies started fleeing
>>23017367>"Why didn't America just stop oppressing Arabs after they did 9/11, they must have been really angry?" Legitimising violence and devastation on that scale only encourages some other idiots to try again.Considering that stance has in fact not lowered the terrorist threat in the region and the goal of getting less US military presence in Saudi Arabia was accomplished I don't think that's the argument one really wants to take here. Especially since in universe it clearly didn't discourage others from trying again, considering they tried it again multiple times all because the Federation did acquiesce.
>>23017400No, it's a perfectly valid argument actually. Al-Qaeda certainly did not get their way even by America countering them with the war in Iraq. US military presence in the region is still larger than pre-9/11 days, and Iraq is still a smoking crater despite formerly being oil baron tier. Al-Qaeda also barely exists anymore and their leader is dead. Appeasing Al-Qaeda instead would have just encouraged more terrorist attacks because they got their way. It's very simple human psychology. Why don't we look at World War II instead if you still think its a bad analogy? Everyone agrees in retrospect that appeasement was the wrong move, which is essentially what that idiot post is saying that the EF should have done. We have historical evidence that it was terrible and that it didn't stop German ambitions in Europe. Furthermore, the EF had just won the war and Zeon was in retreat, why the fuck would they acquiesce and bring in Zeon's demands when they won? They were proven to be the superior force and they showed that a large scale assault like that would not cause them to change their minds. In any reasonable universe that would have been the last of Zeon, but since they need to push merchandise of war machines, the war needs to keep happening over and over. This is because Gundam is a series for 12 year olds, not a serious deep work.
>>23017441>Al-Qaeda also barely exists anymore and their leader is dead. Appeasing Al-Qaeda instead would have just encouraged more terrorist attacks because they got their way. It's very simple human psychology.But the key point is it didn't really work as a preventative measure. ISIS rose in the region, Hamas continued attacks, the Taliban did outright win. Much like Zeon issue kept cropping up, many of them caused by stopping the last issue.
>>23017441>Why don't we look at World War II instead if you still think its a bad analogy?Well considering after the war there was an active effort to avoid the mistakes of WWI in post-war Germany and Japan I think that would support the argument that the Federation should have attempted to fix the issues that caused the rise of Zeon instead of doing nothing.
>>23014415That’s not true, Zeon declared war before the colony drop.But it just goes to show how dumb you are, thinking it’s only fair to give warning about your surprise attack before doing it
>>23015559
>>23015855They don't give a shit about the billions. They, almost, never did. So long as they are on top, that's all that matters.
>>23017463It did work as a preventative measure as America's goal was to tell them to never fuck with America like that again and they succeeded. You think the goal was to end terrorism globally? America doesn't give a fuck about anyone's wellbeing unless it affects America. It's not rocket science.>>23017468Yes and the EF did exactly what America did to Germany and Japan, they installed a government to replace the former dictators that was friendly to their interests and was basically a member of the Federation again. The only reason it didn't work in the case of the EF is because, as stated earlier, the suits need the shows to have fights to keep selling toys. Perhaps its time to finally admit that Gundam isn't a deep, realistic piece of fiction and is instead aimed at gun-ota and 12 year olds. Which would be fine if any entry in the serious was above average, but alas that isn't the case.
>>23017367>>23017370kek this pseud-int seriously replied to his own post after 6 minutes
>>23023229>bumping this garbage threadkill yourself faggot
The Zabi family corrupted Zeon Zum Deikun ideals.
>>23027267Do the Zeon's and Zabis drink Zima?
>>23027436No they drink Orbitz because they orbit the Feds rent-free>defy gravity
>>23027267Zeon Deikun's ideas were dumb in the first place. His Newtype "theory" caused his son to try to nuke the Earth.
