>>23017025
S'alright.

>Objectively, what do you subjectively think about this?

>>23017025
It's on the lower tier of series for me, I never rewatch it unless it's with someone who's never seen it before.

Characters are either decent or godawful, all the mobile suits outside of the Gundams and GunEZ are bland and forgettable, and often times the characters make baffingly stupid decisions, especially Shakti, Katejina, Maria and Tassilo.

Nowhere near as dark and depressing as everyone made it out to be. I expected the whole show to be "this is my mom" moments and it was just typical Gundam drama

It's the peak of Tomino's fight storyboarding

>>23017025
It's not bad. I really like how crafty Uso is with the Victory, jettisoning parts in shit, I really like how much the resistance really feels like a resistance, you have a huge variety of people fighting, kids, old people, men, women, that's pretty cool.
I personally hate basically every single Zanscare suit though.

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>>23017136
>I personally hate basically every single Zanscare suit though.

There's nothing memorable or interesting about them.

>>23017136
>What is Shokew
>Zanneck
>Rig Contio
>Gottrlatan
>Zoloat
>Zanspine
Their non-gimmick MS are amazing

>>23017158
>I want a gerbera tetra but awful
>They're already in production, sir

>>23017025
For me it’s the best Gundam by a large margin and also the best Tomino’s ending, sharing that spot with Be Invoked.

>>23017171
I can't recall what any of these look like beyond generic bugeyed mobile suits.

>>23017025
It's my second-favorite Tomino Gundam after Turn A. He basically learned his lesson on everything he did wrong with Zeta, and did an actually good job this time.

>>23017197
>He basically learned his lesson on everything he did wrong with Zeta, and did an actually good job this time.

I'm curious what Tomino "did wrong" with Zeta, because I can't think of anything that Victory supposidely improved on.

>>23017194
what's so generic about them?

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>>23017194
Shokew is the yellow wasp from the first episodes, Zanneck is the orbital sniper, Rig Contio is Chronicle's final MS, Gottrlatan is Katejina's >>23017158, Zoloat is their space use elite grunt with the string launchers, and Zanspine is an MSV that's a Zanscare V2

>>23017208
Zeta is a convoluted mess. It had no plot to fill a 50 episode run and by the 30s it gets really boring until the finale. The fight scenes are not creative at all and really repetitive. Basically it starts strong but loses steam along the way while Victory is the opposite, it gets progressively better.

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what i think of all tomino tv anime: niche; dense; aesthetic; hard-to-digest; convoluted.
if you watch with ocd-induced prepped historical context, staff listing and fully focused, youre bound to find merit. but for the average joe, his shows are waaay too far out there, and this applies to everything he's put out, imo.

however, most tomino cultists and average joes either ignore these obversations and ignorantly dismiss him entirely or worship him like he's jesus

>>23017233
>Victory is the opposite, it gets progressively better.

I can't agree with that, it often feels as if Victory is just spinning its wheels with how often the characters do stupid shit like Shakti ditching the LM to try and talk Zanscare out of being bastards or just about anything that happens with/to Chronicle.

Not as good as G-Reco but still top 4 for me.

My favorite Gundam series.
Shakti best girl.

>>23017025
I enjoyed it more than ZZ

I like it
Uso's a good MC and V2 is pure sex

>>23017025

One of my favorite shows for the franchise, unironically.

It's not perfect. The first 4 episode being out of order weirdness does not help things. Lupe's storyline is wild and feels out of place in the show, and there's some (unfounded in my opinion) sexist criticisms due to the villains essentially being an a self-professed matriarchal empire. And of course the hilarious but out of place motorbikes (which if nothing are unique in their weirdness), and Shaki Ti's constant flip flopping can be annoying. Also, people will complain about the lack of shading on some of the early animation (a deliberate stylistic decision by the production crew, btw).

But I think when you get beyond the culture wars BS, you'll find a show about the utter desperation of small arms guerilla warfare that's a more realistic depiction of just how brutal these conflicts can be. Plot armor is kept to a minimum for both the mecha and characters. Action choreography is some of the best and most creative you'll find in any gundam tv show. Both sides are fairly balanced in terms of their abilities, with Zanscare suits constantly being a real threat. The low shading mentioned earlier is traded off with more complex storyboarding and action, and the second half of the show has a lot of really cool sequences that are well shaded too. The orchestral OST is haunting, atmospheric, and all around gorgeous, setting the new standards for what the rest of 90s gundam and beyond could sound like. The music often gives the show a feeling of isolation that I don't think the other shows get, especially when battles happen in space where the mood suits that kind of theme.

Wars are weird, brutal and savage. They are often desperate groups of people trying to survive against authoritarian ego driven aggressive psuedo empires of conquest, yet rarely are on the large scale you see in other sci-fi, or the one year war. Victory's grimness most closely matches the types of mid-size wars we see today.

>>23017208
1. The characters are significantly less annoying pieces of shit
2. The MS designs, despite being zany, are actually memorable
3. The MS combat is significantly better choreographed
4. The plot was significantly less meandering, and there was an actual central theme of sorts (don't pollute the Earth, stop the adults from ruining children's future)

>>23018118
>2. The MS designs, despite being zany, are actually memorable

Are you serious?

Is he serious?

A lot of weird Tomino hate lately. He didn't get this type of seethe even 2 years ago.

>>23021429
The trolling's been going on for a good long time, with breaks (presumably when the posters got bored and/or were banned). They're a little more subtle recently.

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>>23021429
You're right, but I think it's a reaction rather than an action.
I think the catalyst for the anti-Tomino sentiments is an influx of tourists, frankly. People who are discovering Gundam and think they are sophisticated anime experts because they can name a primarily mecha director on the mecha board. It's also why people keep bringing Anno up, because those are the only two directors that they can name. It's borne from ironic weeb insecurity, they have to treat anime like how normalfags treat Tarantino or Scorcese because it legitimises them enjoying cartoons. It's also because Gundam and Gainax shit are the only things these insufferable newfag tourists have actually watched, so those two directors are the only ones they can ever talk about.
I would personally love it if both groups would fuck off. The Xabungle thread was derailed by this autism, as was this thread.

Some dumbass just went onto /co/ and asked if there was a /co/ character like Lupe.

Fucking retards.

>>23021463
>The Xabungle thread was derailed by this autism
Pointing out that Tomino is a loon is not the same as being Zetarager. I just really don't like Zeta, Hathaway and Victory and think it's due to Tomino being a preachy douchebag who believes all humanity should be exterminated to bring about ascension into the astral plane. Shit like that is how we got the sarin gas attacks.

>>23018078
You mean Marbet

>>23022963
>if i make up some bullshit reason to hate tomino i can justify why i was filtered by his shows
>ummm he wants all of humanity to be exterminated to bring about ascension into the astral plane!!! that's why every antagonist in tomino's gundam shows up until turn A also wants to do the same thing, and they're portrayed in a bad light for doing so!!!
>THIS IS WHY 9/11 HAPPENED TOO!!!!
Unironically kill yourself, you are the dumbest motherfucker on this entire board.

>>23023061
>and they're portrayed in a bad light for doing so
Quattro, CCA Char and Hathaway are all framed as heroes for wanting human eradication.

>>23023061
>Quattro
Doesn't want human eradication, not until Kamille gets mindraped and it breaks his hopes in humanity.
>CCA Char
Is literally the antagonist of the movie and it is seen as a good thing when Amuro stops him.
>Hathaway
Perhaps the only case you have here. But, it's more likely that he is simply just the viewpoint character and not meant to be the "hero" of the story. Hathaway is a confused teenager still suffering from his traumatic experiences during CCA who never got the help he needed because of his distant militaristic father. Since he is the only instance of such thought in Tomino's work, it's ridiculous to pretend his point of view represents what Tomino thinks.
You are an idiot, try watching the shows you talk about instead of reading Wikipedia and coming up with schizophrenic bullshit.

>>23023159
>You are an idiot, try watching the shows you talk about instead of reading Wikipedia and coming up with schizophrenic bullshit.
I have watched these shows. I've watched Kamille and Quattro preach that everyone above the age of 19 should stop making decisions for the world. I've seen Kamille's Brazil treatment he got by defeating exactly that kind of ecofascist bigot at the end of Zeta completely cured at the end of ZZ. I've seen Lalah refer to Char as a "pure soul" as he fights waving the same banner as Haman. I've seen Bright watch his son insist on fighting to retrieve Quess and mention nothing about what happened to Katz, Hayato and Puru. I've seen Hathaway teamkill Chan for being an evil adult getting in the way of the youth. And I've seen Gigi be a complete cunt who thinks people who hate genocidal terrorism are poopyheads in a book/movie where the Manhunters exist.

>>23017025
The Loos is on the loosekjdhj4

>>23022963
every villain is someone who rejects humanity in favor of their own ideology what are you talking about.

>>23018102
Zanscare's bad because of people like Kagatie and his buds, not matriarchy. Cronicle is explicitly shown as good in fighting for matriarchy but he ends up becoming bad due to his own hatred and neediness for Maria.

>>23023215
>I've watched Kamille and Quattro preach that everyone above the age of 19 should stop making decisions for the world.
They're bad because they're greedily holding onto the times instead of passing it to the next generation.
>I've seen Lalah refer to Char as a "pure soul" as he fights waving the same banner as Haman.
Char was a traumatized little boy deep at heart. Only Lalah understood this up until the end.
>I've seen Bright watch his son insist on fighting to retrieve Quess and mention nothing about what happened to Katz, Hayato and Puru.
What more did you want to be said of Katz and Hayato? Katz died in an extremely chaotic battle and Hayao was already a pathetic loser in the first place. Puru is moreso due to time constraints then anything.

>>23023353
>Cronicle is explicitly shown as good in fighting for matriarchy but he ends up becoming bad due to his own hatred and neediness for Maria.

Is that what Chronicle's story was about?

I've watched this show 3 times now and I still could never feel what Chronicle was about as a character, he's just kind of "there" and goes along with other people's stories, any kind of "initiative" he takes seems to be more about common sense than any kind of intrigue or character development.

>>23023368
From Tomino's point of view, peaceful ancient societies were matriarchal with patriarchy arising from war. From that POV, Cronicle is good.
Yeah, you do have to infer from what others say when it comes to Cronicle. A lot of his darker side comes out near the end though with his own suggestions of powering Zanscare's superweapon with Shakti.

>>23023368
>Chronicle
Man it's stupid that that's his actual name. I tend to call him "Cronicle" to mitigate the dumb.
>I've watched this show 3 times now and I still could never feel what Chronicle was about as a character, he's just kind of "there" and goes along with other people's stories
He's initially filling Garma's "good-hearted member of the bad guy family" role with how he saves Shakti and Katejina's lives at points, but once Katejina goes villain his plot function is essentially to be Katejina's wingman and her means of clinging to authority in Bespa (which the show seems to believe she can only have if she remains unmarried). While he detests Kagatie for the authority he holds over Maria, he's totally suckered in by his ideals.
In other words, he's a plot device.

>>23017254
A lot of this I think stems from translation issues which isn't helped in any part by the fact Tomino has genuinely eccentric syntax. He's said that he tries to have mass appeal in his shows and tries to let them be dialogue-driven just incase someone is watching while they're eating dinner or doing some kind of work.
But yeah I don't know how you could reasonably infer Zanscare as being men's attempt to wield matriarchy from the show lol.

I just edited Lupe's character page on >TVTropes and I feel like a social outcast who owns an anime girl body pillow because of it.
Nobody should be made to write about the time in this show where Uso bites a woman's tit to escape torture, yet /co/ forced my hand.

>>23023384
>(which the show seems to believe she can only have if she remains unmarried).
Wait when does the show imply this? I don't remember that.

>>23023395
I'm pretty sure that the unspoken implication of why Queen Maria is seen as a political leader is because she's unmarried. Thus also to Katejina.
Or at least that's what MSB believes.

>>23023398
Oh OK I get that. Maria's single status though seems to be religious in nature rather than normative for Zanscare's women. Fuala had a thing for one of her guys and later on for Tassilo and there's also Lupe and Pippinden.

>>23017045
It's a very (intentionally) funny show.

>>23023403
>>23023398
>>23023395
>>23023391

The whole "Matriarchy" thing in Victory feels incredibly disengenuous since it never once actually plays into anything other than Katejina's given reason for joining them for real, and even then it doesn't really feel solid because Katejina didn't have any genuine trauma that would cause her to believe in such a thing.

It's funny because most of the women working under Zanscare are lunatics and murderers themselves.

>look up Akira Okeya (guy who wrote most of the worst parts of Victory)
>scripted pretty much every episode of 08th MS Team
>wrote several episodes of G Gundam, including the worst episode of the show (the Spike/Tequila Gundam episode)
>also did that shitty Candidate For Goddess show that once terrorized Toonami and a bunch of Transformers Armada episodes

>>23023446
And what’s your point…? None of his stuff is really that bad. Candidate for Godness was a manga, he simply adapted it.

>>23023425
Katejina was always a selfish person who wanted power.

>>23023425
>>23023493
Zanscare as a whole is comprised of bad mothers
>Maria emphasizes the hardness of motherhood at the expense of its nurture because she infantilizes her children.
>Lupe is smothering and wants to absorb away all her children's sense of self
>Fuala is perverted into a murderer by irresponsible and manipulative men like Tassilo and Pippinden
Compare that to our protags who constantly risk themselves to give Uso and the next generation a future, even if they're not perfect. Uso's arc culminates with him seeing the wings of light (Oliver's heirlooms) and choosing to live on almost completely in spite of how much the whole world and even his parents fail him, and that's because primarily of maternal love.

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>>23023502
>>23023493
When Shakti chooses of her own will to go into Angel Halo and power it up, her maternalism brings peace by banishing the adults responsible for the fighting to who knows where. While this is happening Uso is quite literally being powered by the newtype ghosts of the woman pilot team (and Oliver too) and that's what allows him to beat a selfish strip mine of a human like Katejina.
I don't really get the critique of the show as "misogynist" anyway. It's part of a thematic duology with F91, with that focusing on paternalism gone wrong and Victory focusing on maternalism. The shows far more about motherhood than it is women.
>>23023503
This guy is awesome.

>>23023511
>When Shakti chooses of her own will to go into Angel Halo and power it up, her maternalism brings peace by banishing the adults responsible for the fighting to who knows where.

I'm not certain that's what actually happened, especially since the Angel Halo's wreckage was floating around in Earth's gravitational field for centuries until it ultimately made landfall around the time of G-Saviour.

I could be wrong, I really don't understand what Shakti was even doing with the Angel Halo, I just remember its parts randomly joining and separating over and over while she was screaming inside it for whatever reason.

>>23022963
>believes humanity should be exterminated to bring about ascension into the astral plane
wikipedia tier interpretation, would like to see it supported by at least three examples so that you can be ridiculed even more than you already are

>>23023215
>I've watched Kamille and Quattro preach that everyone above the age of 19 should stop making decisions for the world.
Didn't happen. I've watched Zeta twice, and granted it was eight years ago at this point but I would have remembered if this was actually a plot point. It wasn't. What does happen is a general criticism of political leadership being old and out of touch with the younger generations, a theme consistent in Tomino's work.
>I've seen Kamille's Brazil treatment he got by defeating exactly that kind of ecofascist bigot at the end of Zeta completely cured at the end of ZZ.
This is actually schizophrenic nonsense, what the fuck are you even trying to say?
>I've seen Lalah refer to Char as a "pure soul" as he fights waving the same banner as Haman.
Char's intentions are not even to destroy humanity but rather to force people into space and let the Earth recover. Lalah sees the noble intentions in trying to save the Earth, hence why she argues he is a pure soul. Plus, why would someone already dead be concerned with millions of people dying? Their conciousness will still exist, she's literally proof of that.
>I've seen Bright watch his son insist on fighting to retrieve Quess and mention nothing about what happened to Katz, Hayato and Puru.
Hathaway stole a Jegan and Bright was horrified to see him gone from the upper bridge, Bright had no say in the matter.
>I've seen Hathaway teamkill Chan for being an evil adult getting in the way of the youth.
No-one sees this as a positive thing, pretty sure you're supposed to not emphasise with Hathaway in that scene.
>And I've seen Gigi be a complete cunt who thinks people who hate genocidal terrorism are poopyheads in a book/movie where the Manhunters exist.
You mention the Manhunters who use terror tactics like a giant robot with guns aimed at killing people and operated against civilians in order to force spacenoids off Earth, which is literally a form of genocide.
Kill yourself you schizo retard.

>>23023682
>guns aimed at killing people
I mean armed with guns specifically for killing on-foot combatants and crowd control of civilians, I ran out of characters.

>>23023140
None of them want that.

>>23023618
That's about what happened. Altho I could be wrong.

>>23017254
Tomino is not that hard to understand or enjoy.

>>23022963
You are unironicly one of the most retarded posters ever on this board. Consider suicide

>>23017025
Seen some of it and man Zanscare is up there for worse Villain faction.

>>23023368
Let's be real, Tomino got bored of Chronicle. He was clearly set up to be an Anti-Villain and a Char-esque character. Tomino probably thought Katejina was more interesting, so he decided to give her the bigger role.

>>23023425
The whole matriarchy thing could've been interesting if Maria was actually calling the shots.

>>23027437
Tomino has done basically a form of char in almost every single one of his series. It also wouldn't be the first time a character like Chronicle goes from the main thematic anti villain to a lesser role. Gije from Ideon kind of does this with Harulu taking his place eventually.

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>>23023425
Katejina is just female Char.
And Char is a liar.

>>23017025
Its peak

>>23027460
Since Maria was brought up

It always felt like her ability to literally heal the sick and lame via Newtype magic is something they just kind of gloss over. I kept expecting it to turn out to be fake, or something that wasn't actually Maria's "powers" at all, but they never really explain it.

It never comes up during the "Are Newtypes magic?" discussions either.

>>23028050
placebo effect

>>23027437
I think a religious cult is a pretty good concept for a villain faction.

>>23028050
That’s how cults work IRL, you know

>>23027460
No it's better if she's a figurehead.

>>23017025

I would love to watch it but some fuckhead has been artificially pumping the blu ray price on ebay and I am not paying 300$ for the first collection.

Why is Cronicle not a Newtype in SRW D?

>>23028050
Presumably there's not many people interested in Newtype powers that aren't related to combat ability. I recently encountered a guy whose only experiences of Victory were watching the Fuala 2 episodes for powerscaling purposes.

>>23017025
>what do you think of V Gundam?
it would have been better if it was just a show about amateur shortwave radio enthusiasts.
in some ways V Gundam is a curse because all roads lead to it, or retcons.

>>23028751
Just fucking pirate it! You’re literally buying second hand, it makes no sense whatsoever

>>23028758
Le bells...

Le big beam launcher...

>>23023511
>When Shakti chooses of her own will to go into Angel Halo and power it up, her maternalism brings peace by banishing the adults responsible for the fighting to who knows where.
I think it's less powering up the Angel Halo than to hijack it with her newtype powers and cause it to be dismantled while sending its pieces to orbit for the rescue group to pick up all of the psykickers that inhabiting them. It needs a Newtype to have control over it and side psykickers are amplifier for what it supposed to be a Brain Drain Genocide Machine.

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>>23028758
>for powerscaling purposes.

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>>23017025
Should have been a F91 follow-up story, but for some retarded reason they jump 25 years forward.

>>23030912
All the Psykickers died anyway.

>>23033924
F91 was way too small a conflict to justify investing more time into.