It's funny to me how the RF series used by Mars Zeon gets retroactively buffed and new machines like this RF Kampfer which has quasi-psycommu weapons.Previous descriptions of the RF Zaku were all>Based on Geara Dogas some CCA remnants had when they got to Mars>They can even outperform Geara Dogas in some areas>Other RF mechs like the Dom aren't as maneuverable as Heavyguns and all are based on decade old tech by UC 120sMaking it sound like 30 years of relative peace and only Geara Doga samples + preexisting Mars Zeon OYW designs led to at best Geara Doga + 1s that can take on Jegans but get ROFLstomped by Heavyguns or anything miniaturized. The very best is an RF Gelgoog which is better than RF Goufs and Zakus but none had any quasi-psycommu tech, funnels, or ultra fancy weapons past Neo-Zeons. Now all this new media coming out way after Mars Zeon's first appearance like AoZ show Mars was really, really busy too and had access to Doven Wolfs and way more advanced machines than that.Now, even RF Zakus in recent post-100 UC like Fastest Formula are depicted as>Completely outstrips Jegans and you need miniaturized mechs to stand a chance>Has all these new RF machines never before seen like the RF Kampfer that can give the F90 Gundam a tough fight
>>23025534The very latest chapter of F90 talks about rhis specifically. It mentions how all RF machines are the same frame with different body kits, but said bodykits are what determine the machine's performance. So a RF xaku is more or less a Geara Doga, but a RF Gelgoog could be on par with more modern MS. They're still overall inferior to contemporary Federation MS. It also mentions how, whether due to parts availability or pilot preference, many RF suits of the same "model" tend to look and perform differently.
>>23025562Right, and that a lot of this "frame+bodykit" is also basically going back to movable frame construction
Funny how?
>>23025562So these are the early RF models with the OYW aesthetic, not the later type as seen in UC 0122?
>>23025630Correct, the very last sentence in the article mentions how those are a different beast altogether
>>23025534>none had any quasi-psycommu tech, funnels, or ultra fancy weapons past Neo-ZeonsI'd be confused why there aren't more. I get sticking with the basics and getting the simple stuff working but resource-wise, they had 30 years. They had to be secretive but Mars is a whole planet and there's tons of asteroids to mine. Advance of Zeta explains it by throwing away massive resources in interplanetary conflict I suppose. >>23025562That leaves it extremely open for any writer to write any level of performance for them.
>>23025534>Geara Doga + 1s that can take on JeganHathaway_Jegan_Vulcans.webm
>>23027506>I'd be confused why there aren't more. I get sticking with the basics and getting the simple stuff working but resource-wise, they had 30 years. They had to be secretive but Mars is a whole planet and there's tons of asteroids to mine. Advance of Zeta explains it by throwing away massive resources in interplanetary conflict I suppose.It's a specialist technology that requires knowledgeable researchers and viable test subjects. My guess is that maybe the Kycilia remnants that fled to Mars and started up Mars Zeon just didn't have a copy of the Flanagan Institute research data, and maybe Axis Zeon had the data which could explain why after 7 years they were able to develop the Qubeley and other newtype technology.
Late UC sucksMiniature MS suck
>>23027525Maybe but designs like the Reben Wolf and OP mentioned quasipsycommu RF Kampfer do exist. They have the data for non-newtypes to do remote weapon attacks from the Doven Wolf. Extra chapter descriptions say they're expensive but that's a funky excuse after several decades of industry and mining when Haman/Glemmy Neo Zeon didn't have decades to prepare.
>>23025673Is it safe to say that all Borjanon's were RF Zakus? They could retcon this.
>>23027900That seems to be the intent
>>23027900Given the time loops in Turn A, it can be anywhere from an upgraded original that can hover over water, an RF, some other time loop version where it might as well be more advanced than any other Zaku, etc.
>>23027900the Borjarnons still have the old F-type cockpit. i'm not an expert on the new RF lore but i feel like having miniaturized Geara Doga internals would mean that it'd have a panoramic cockpit instead.
>>23027938By then they should have figured out 360-degree cockpits
>>23027938Cockpits are easily swappable.
>>23029871Given how late that appears, it wins the oddly specific category of best underwater UC mech.
>>23025534>Geara Doga + 1sIs it better or worse than the chronological Geara Doga+1?
>>23030349sorry to say, but Crossbone has better ones
>>23031227zulus aren't even necessarily better than dogas, and a bunch of zulus are upgraded using parts from the doga series
>>23031527What about the Guard Type?
>>23031227If the RF Zaku is on par with F91 era Jegan performance, that's comparable to Unicorn or Sinanju performance.
>>23033415That's the perfect example.Short answer: Geara Zulu Guards type steals the Doga's standard backpack and this is considered to be improved performance over the regular Geara Zulu.Long answer: The "original spec" Geara Zulu only exists as "blueprint data" or someshit and all the Geara Zulus seen in Unicorn are customized versions and variant models of that version. Geara Zulu Guards type supposedly matches the original specs from the blueprints the most, and the Geara Zulu we see used by the Zinnerman team is considered a cheapass version with lowered specs. Geara Zulu Guards type still has to steal the Geara Doga's backpack to have improved performance to help it keep up with the Sinanju. I have no idea what original spec Geara Zulu's backpack looks like.
>>23033431>F91 era Jegan performanceBut the Jegan Normal Types aren't massive overhauls and there was relative peace during that time. They're more like the Jegan's GM IIs and aren't light years ahead of a normal Jegan. Their depiction in recent manga has them still inferior to ReZELs.
The Zaku III was bleeding edge technology in UC 0088. One of the best grunt suits that Axis could make during the time besides the Doven Wolf.The Geara Doga was NOT the best suit Anaheim Electronics could make. It was basically AE saying: "What's a budget Zeon style suit we could make with modern technology for Char's rebellion ?" And don't even get me started on Geara Zulu. That was AE saying:"What's a ABSOLUTE CHEAPEST Zeon style suit we could make that uses modern technology?"That said, they do need to make them powerful enough so the Feds buy from them. AE wanted to supply Neo Zeon remnants with suits that had modern tech. But not make remnants too powerful.The Zaku III is also about 11 tons heaviler than the Marasai and about 20 more tons than the Geara Doga. Anaheim must've made significant material savings.
>>23031227Geara Zulu is a direct upgrade in terms of base specs over the Geara Doga, but just barely. It's kind of implied that Anaheim made all the extant Geara Doga's in one batch, and the majority of them were destroyed during the 2nd Neo Zeon War(CCA). After things cooled down a bit the Sleeves contracted Anaheim out again to make them a new multi-role MS line which became the Geara Zulu, which they received in even more limited numbers than it's predecessor.The biggest advantage the Zulu has over the Doga though, appears to be adaptability. The Doga's had a very limited equipment loadout, where as the Zulu's more Jegan like proportions seems to have made it more accepting of a wider range of additional equipment and battlefield modifications.
>>23033472>Their depiction in recent manga has them still inferior to ReZELs.Is it possible that it's a pilot skill issue or that the Jegan pilot wasn't pushing his machine to 100% output? >But the Jegan Normal Types aren't massive overhaulsThere is the Jegan R-type, which used to be known as the Fireball. I always thought that it was a little cheeky that the Sinanju was given specs that was quite close to what the ~30 years later top-end Jegan was supposedly also capable of.>Jegan R-typeWeight: empty 23.4 metric tons; max gross 51.6 metric tonsPropulsion: rocket thrusters: 124,960 kg total (69,840 kg, 2 x 15,290 kg, 2 x 12,270 kg); vernier thrusters/apogee motors: 22>SinanjuWeight: empty 25.2 metric tons; max gross 56.9 metric tonsPropulsion: rocket thrusters: 128,600 kg total
>>23033480The Zaku III is also like twice the size and has beam guns and armor oit the ass, while the Gearas crumple to Jegan vulcans. Mashmyre's Zaku III even tanks multiple Doven Wolf high mega cannon shots, though I think that was newtype fairy magic mostly.
>>23033500>FireballThat one only shows up as a prototype and lives up t its name
>>23033500>Is it possible that it's a pilot skill issue or that the Jegan pilot wasn't pushing his machine to 100% output?Just about all of the Jegan appearances in F90FF and more has them not considerably better than before.
>>23025534Some also make the Heavyguns stronger than just "Jegan level in a smaller package". More recent later UC try and depict early miniaturized mechs as better rather than just smaller too.
>>23025534>RFs? I can beat them with a Jegan.
>>23025534Honestly, the RF Gelgoogs better shit all over Jegans almost as hard as the Crossbone Vanguard did. These should be ace pilot mechs vs outdated mechs. But the same scene also has the Gelgoog supported by RF Zakus that were keeping up with it.It is a bit weird for their ace machines, they're rather basic with only the Charles version being way different. Ironically, the more reserved loadout and sticking with the basics rather attempt an RF Zeong is very restrained for a post OYW Zeon group. Almost everyone had to have their Quinn Mantha, looted Psycho Gundam MK 2, or giant mobile armor. Even the novel Nightingale was fuckhuge for an MS. Methinks the giant Mars laser cannon ate all their other resources.
>>23033826>More recentF91 was already doing this
>>23027937>Given the time loops in Turn A,retard
>>23033904>abrams pilot
>>23033912I remember aside from one Heavygun guy who gave a good fight almost everyone jobbed. Then again, that can be chalked up to Zons just being way better. Jegans fared worse but I remember most Heavyguns were GM level fodder in practice.
>>23033920Might as well be time loops. >muh destroyed civilization and reset >muh dark history is every past gundam timeline convergingMight as well say the nanomachines recreated all the resources inevitable cycles of Earth resource depletion and straight up changed physics if Light of Life Chronicle U.C. truly implies timelines like 00 were among the resets.
>>23033949>Light of Life Chronicle U.C.I still don't understand that. Was Lalah trying to say the other AUs are distant futures yet to happen? Because it would imply recreating situations leading to IRL countries in their present state. Or like 00 GN Particles, ELS aliens and other physics straight up nonexistent in UC can exist because it's the same universe but don't because of different tech direction. Or Turn X using Shining Finger is more than a reference and G Gundam is a timeline before Turn A? Fucking everyone gives a different answer. Toshizaku says G-Reco happens before Turn A but Tomino says otherwise. Fukui's novelization of Turn-A doesn't have any references to the AUs. Even the minor stuff that was in the tv series, like the Dark History scenes or Corin's flash to the Wing Zero are omitted. The only previous era ever referenced is UC. Then we get https://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=16133>"Black History" in Turn A Gundam is the records of wars that were sealed away, but also has another meaning- That of the concept that all Gundam series shows, starting with Mobile Suit Gundam in 1979, exist in a single timeline. In other words,1979's Mobile Suit Gundam's UC marks the beginning of humanity's space age, and 1999's Turn A Gundam's CC is its final stage. The timelines broadcast up to that point, G's FC, Wing's AC, and X's AW, as well as 2002's Seed's CE, 2007's 00's AD, and 2011's Age's AG, and all other Gundam series to come are a part of black history as well (Gundam Build Fighters seems to be an exception). The gimmicks that made this possible are nanotechnology and black history. In real life, history is filled with numerous different perceptions and interpretations, and there are countless cases of fabrications gaining momentum and being treated as fact. In the end, it may be that people only believe what they want to believe.
>>23033965Straight up time loops and reverting Earth to a past status would be a better explanation than everyone rebuilding from ashes coincidentally recreated the same historical figures. At minimum UC had a Hitler for Degwin to tell Gihren about.
>>23033949>>23033965It's better to treat Turn A as it's own AU really that uses other timelines or some SRW, G Generation, or even Exa simulation style Mashup rather than go through how each timeline mixes without space-time dimensional magic.
