>>23025534 (OP)
The very latest chapter of F90 talks about rhis specifically. It mentions how all RF machines are the same frame with different body kits, but said bodykits are what determine the machine's performance. So a RF xaku is more or less a Geara Doga, but a RF Gelgoog could be on par with more modern MS. They're still overall inferior to contemporary Federation MS. It also mentions how, whether due to parts availability or pilot preference, many RF suits of the same "model" tend to look and perform differently.

>>23025562
Right, and that a lot of this "frame+bodykit" is also basically going back to movable frame construction

Funny how?

>>23025562
So these are the early RF models with the OYW aesthetic, not the later type as seen in UC 0122?

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>>23025630
Correct, the very last sentence in the article mentions how those are a different beast altogether

>>23025534 (OP)
>none had any quasi-psycommu tech, funnels, or ultra fancy weapons past Neo-Zeons
I'd be confused why there aren't more. I get sticking with the basics and getting the simple stuff working but resource-wise, they had 30 years. They had to be secretive but Mars is a whole planet and there's tons of asteroids to mine. Advance of Zeta explains it by throwing away massive resources in interplanetary conflict I suppose.
>>23025562
That leaves it extremely open for any writer to write any level of performance for them.

>>23025534 (OP)
>Geara Doga + 1s that can take on Jegan
Hathaway_Jegan_Vulcans.webm

>>23027506
>I'd be confused why there aren't more. I get sticking with the basics and getting the simple stuff working but resource-wise, they had 30 years. They had to be secretive but Mars is a whole planet and there's tons of asteroids to mine. Advance of Zeta explains it by throwing away massive resources in interplanetary conflict I suppose.
It's a specialist technology that requires knowledgeable researchers and viable test subjects. My guess is that maybe the Kycilia remnants that fled to Mars and started up Mars Zeon just didn't have a copy of the Flanagan Institute research data, and maybe Axis Zeon had the data which could explain why after 7 years they were able to develop the Qubeley and other newtype technology.

Late UC sucks
Miniature MS suck

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>>23027525
Maybe but designs like the Reben Wolf and OP mentioned quasipsycommu RF Kampfer do exist. They have the data for non-newtypes to do remote weapon attacks from the Doven Wolf. Extra chapter descriptions say they're expensive but that's a funky excuse after several decades of industry and mining when Haman/Glemmy Neo Zeon didn't have decades to prepare.

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>>23025673
Is it safe to say that all Borjanon's were RF Zakus? They could retcon this.

>>23027900
That seems to be the intent

>>23027900
Given the time loops in Turn A, it can be anywhere from an upgraded original that can hover over water, an RF, some other time loop version where it might as well be more advanced than any other Zaku, etc.

>>23027900
the Borjarnons still have the old F-type cockpit. i'm not an expert on the new RF lore but i feel like having miniaturized Geara Doga internals would mean that it'd have a panoramic cockpit instead.

>>23027938
By then they should have figured out 360-degree cockpits

>>23027938
Cockpits are easily swappable.

>>23029871
Given how late that appears, it wins the oddly specific category of best underwater UC mech.

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>>23025534 (OP)
>Geara Doga + 1s
Is it better or worse than the chronological Geara Doga+1?

>>23030349
sorry to say, but Crossbone has better ones

>>23031227
zulus aren't even necessarily better than dogas, and a bunch of zulus are upgraded using parts from the doga series

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>>23031527
What about the Guard Type?

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>>23031227
If the RF Zaku is on par with F91 era Jegan performance, that's comparable to Unicorn or Sinanju performance.

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>>23033415
That's the perfect example.

Short answer: Geara Zulu Guards type steals the Doga's standard backpack and this is considered to be improved performance over the regular Geara Zulu.

Long answer: The "original spec" Geara Zulu only exists as "blueprint data" or someshit and all the Geara Zulus seen in Unicorn are customized versions and variant models of that version. Geara Zulu Guards type supposedly matches the original specs from the blueprints the most, and the Geara Zulu we see used by the Zinnerman team is considered a cheapass version with lowered specs. Geara Zulu Guards type still has to steal the Geara Doga's backpack to have improved performance to help it keep up with the Sinanju. I have no idea what original spec Geara Zulu's backpack looks like.

>>23033431
>F91 era Jegan performance
But the Jegan Normal Types aren't massive overhauls and there was relative peace during that time. They're more like the Jegan's GM IIs and aren't light years ahead of a normal Jegan. Their depiction in recent manga has them still inferior to ReZELs.

The Zaku III was bleeding edge technology in UC 0088. One of the best grunt suits that Axis could make during the time besides the Doven Wolf.

The Geara Doga was NOT the best suit Anaheim Electronics could make. It was basically AE saying: "What's a budget Zeon style suit we could make with modern technology for Char's rebellion ?"

And don't even get me started on Geara Zulu. That was AE saying:
"What's a ABSOLUTE CHEAPEST Zeon style suit we could make that uses modern technology?"

That said, they do need to make them powerful enough so the Feds buy from them. AE wanted to supply Neo Zeon remnants with suits that had modern tech. But not make remnants too powerful.

The Zaku III is also about 11 tons heaviler than the Marasai and about 20 more tons than the Geara Doga. Anaheim must've made significant material savings.

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>>23031227
Geara Zulu is a direct upgrade in terms of base specs over the Geara Doga, but just barely. It's kind of implied that Anaheim made all the extant Geara Doga's in one batch, and the majority of them were destroyed during the 2nd Neo Zeon War(CCA). After things cooled down a bit the Sleeves contracted Anaheim out again to make them a new multi-role MS line which became the Geara Zulu, which they received in even more limited numbers than it's predecessor.

The biggest advantage the Zulu has over the Doga though, appears to be adaptability. The Doga's had a very limited equipment loadout, where as the Zulu's more Jegan like proportions seems to have made it more accepting of a wider range of additional equipment and battlefield modifications.

>>23033472
>Their depiction in recent manga has them still inferior to ReZELs.
Is it possible that it's a pilot skill issue or that the Jegan pilot wasn't pushing his machine to 100% output?

>But the Jegan Normal Types aren't massive overhauls
There is the Jegan R-type, which used to be known as the Fireball. I always thought that it was a little cheeky that the Sinanju was given specs that was quite close to what the ~30 years later top-end Jegan was supposedly also capable of.

>Jegan R-type
Weight: empty 23.4 metric tons; max gross 51.6 metric tons
Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 124,960 kg total (69,840 kg, 2 x 15,290 kg, 2 x 12,270 kg); vernier thrusters/apogee motors: 22

>Sinanju
Weight: empty 25.2 metric tons; max gross 56.9 metric tons
Propulsion: rocket thrusters: 128,600 kg total

>>23033480
The Zaku III is also like twice the size and has beam guns and armor oit the ass, while the Gearas crumple to Jegan vulcans. Mashmyre's Zaku III even tanks multiple Doven Wolf high mega cannon shots, though I think that was newtype fairy magic mostly.

>>23033500
>Fireball
That one only shows up as a prototype and lives up t its name

>>23033500
>Is it possible that it's a pilot skill issue or that the Jegan pilot wasn't pushing his machine to 100% output?
Just about all of the Jegan appearances in F90FF and more has them not considerably better than before.

>>23025534 (OP)
Some also make the Heavyguns stronger than just "Jegan level in a smaller package". More recent later UC try and depict early miniaturized mechs as better rather than just smaller too.

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>>23025534 (OP)
>RFs? I can beat them with a Jegan.

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>>23025534 (OP)
Honestly, the RF Gelgoogs better shit all over Jegans almost as hard as the Crossbone Vanguard did. These should be ace pilot mechs vs outdated mechs. But the same scene also has the Gelgoog supported by RF Zakus that were keeping up with it.

It is a bit weird for their ace machines, they're rather basic with only the Charles version being way different. Ironically, the more reserved loadout and sticking with the basics rather attempt an RF Zeong is very restrained for a post OYW Zeon group. Almost everyone had to have their Quinn Mantha, looted Psycho Gundam MK 2, or giant mobile armor. Even the novel Nightingale was fuckhuge for an MS. Methinks the giant Mars laser cannon ate all their other resources.

>>23033826
>More recent
F91 was already doing this

>>23027937
>Given the time loops in Turn A,
retard

>>23033904
>abrams pilot

>>23033912
I remember aside from one Heavygun guy who gave a good fight almost everyone jobbed. Then again, that can be chalked up to Zons just being way better. Jegans fared worse but I remember most Heavyguns were GM level fodder in practice.

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>>23033920
Might as well be time loops.
>muh destroyed civilization and reset
>muh dark history is every past gundam timeline converging
Might as well say the nanomachines recreated all the resources inevitable cycles of Earth resource depletion and straight up changed physics if Light of Life Chronicle U.C. truly implies timelines like 00 were among the resets.

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>>23033949
>Light of Life Chronicle U.C.
I still don't understand that. Was Lalah trying to say the other AUs are distant futures yet to happen? Because it would imply recreating situations leading to IRL countries in their present state. Or like 00 GN Particles, ELS aliens and other physics straight up nonexistent in UC can exist because it's the same universe but don't because of different tech direction. Or Turn X using Shining Finger is more than a reference and G Gundam is a timeline before Turn A?

Fucking everyone gives a different answer. Toshizaku says G-Reco happens before Turn A but Tomino says otherwise. Fukui's novelization of Turn-A doesn't have any references to the AUs. Even the minor stuff that was in the tv series, like the Dark History scenes or Corin's flash to the Wing Zero are omitted. The only previous era ever referenced is UC. Then we get
https://www.mechatalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=16133
>"Black History" in Turn A Gundam is the records of wars that were sealed away, but also has another meaning- That of the concept that all Gundam series shows, starting with Mobile Suit Gundam in 1979, exist in a single timeline. In other words,1979's Mobile Suit Gundam's UC marks the beginning of humanity's space age, and 1999's Turn A Gundam's CC is its final stage. The timelines broadcast up to that point, G's FC, Wing's AC, and X's AW, as well as 2002's Seed's CE, 2007's 00's AD, and 2011's Age's AG, and all other Gundam series to come are a part of black history as well (Gundam Build Fighters seems to be an exception). The gimmicks that made this possible are nanotechnology and black history. In real life, history is filled with numerous different perceptions and interpretations, and there are countless cases of fabrications gaining momentum and being treated as fact. In the end, it may be that people only believe what they want to believe.

>>23033965
Straight up time loops and reverting Earth to a past status would be a better explanation than everyone rebuilding from ashes coincidentally recreated the same historical figures. At minimum UC had a Hitler for Degwin to tell Gihren about.

>>23033949
>>23033965
It's better to treat Turn A as it's own AU really that uses other timelines or some SRW, G Generation, or even Exa simulation style Mashup rather than go through how each timeline mixes without space-time dimensional magic.

>>23025534 (OP)
>Mars Zeon
From which non-canon fanfic is this?

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>>23034875
They've been a thing since the 1990s
Mars was a backwater colony that became a refuge for losers of various conflicts throughout the universal century. They had a civil war but ultimately the Zabi loyalists won and started LARPing as the o.g. principality, complete with OYW-inspired mobile suit designs.

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>>23034875
It all started with F90 but the video games is where the RF series got a big showing. They're a bunch of OYW losers who decided not to join with Haman, Char, or any others and rebuilt on Mars.

>>23034875
from 35 years old lore

>>23036038
This game has amazing presentation and music, and the system is interesting, but it's so fucking tedious to play. Also I feel like the biggest mistake in the wider picture of F91 was the whole Mars Zeon background story, it felt like such a crutch.

>>23036311
It's sorta a
>how can we bring back the most iconic zeon and most iconic designs
A bit of an excuse really.

>>23036100
Ignore him, he does this with all post-Hathaway UC titles

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>>23033484
Geara Doga is highly modular though, which is to be expected of Marasai's successor.

>>23039062
i'm surprised there's no geara doga kai model kit, it already has a game model for GBO2

>>23039062
>Marasai's successor.
Wait it is?

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>>23039062
Massive modularity seems to be a big thing with the Zaku line and descendants anyway.

>>23042537
I mean, it's the next "Zeon like" grunt made by Anaheim after Marasai. Then come the Zulus, and then the Messer

>>23042609
That third variant (I think it's called the late type?) Is sex

>>23042609
did they really wheel that thing out for a 1-page cameo

>>23045823
F90FF and Cluster really be digging through the oldies

>>23033484
the helmets were too germanic looking.
zeon had its own style.

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>>23045823
F90FF has tons of pages where OYW, Gryps, or any past MS released before it has appeared. If Moon Gundam was complete before it, doubtlessly Zaku IVs would've shown up.
>>23046194
Germanic seems to be the theme of UC enemies in general.

>>23045823
If Fastest Formula got a Unicorn style OVA series, it'd have more one-off nostalgia mechs than all of the Sleeves + Torrington base combined.

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>>23046419
I don't know if I count F91 and V Gundam as UC when I think of UC. I get that other fans are cool with it though.

>>23046419
>Zaku IVs would've shown up.
Were they actually mass-produced?

>>23046455
Random limited production machines show up all the time. Gustav Karls from Hathaway's Flash, GM Snipers and not even IIs, etc.

>>23046471
Yeah, but the question is how many are there.
Zaku IV never really made sense to me. Who developed, why was it developed, why did Neo Zeon go with a worse performing suit like Geara Doga instead?
Like, it only makes sense as an MS with one digit number produced total (same as Jeddah).
Not that it doesn't leave a possibility for the cameo; I just think it's just not given.
Also, they probably could still use it if they wanted. Dust, where F89 debuted, was running concurrently.

>>23046571
I bet Char decided he needs more mechs rather than elite mechs. It's like how there's always these elite ace machines for special snowflake pilots. The big deal about dropping Axis is he only needs enough to fight off preventers and especially Amuro. He must've spent all the cash on the Sazabi then Jagd Doga anyway. Either them or little girls.

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>>23031227
Where do Messers fall in this?

>>23053876
Hard to tell since Gustavs are shown to be jokes by everyone so it's hard to tell how good the Messer actually is.

>>23053876
Given Mafty's smaller numbers, how many were made?

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>RF Zaku in GBO2 now
goddamn

>>23053876
Bigger doga, less frills. And even fewer variants. Understandable, since Mafty doesn't have the resources of a proper Zeon movement. Curiously, its equipment seems partly derived from older Axis designs (shield's originally from the Gelgoog III)

>>23058576
>(shield's originally from the Gelgoog III)
Wait, isn't that a Mars Zeon mech? How do they have access to that knowledge?

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>>23058656
0080s Mars Zeon suits were developed in cooperation with Axis (the Dom III is basically a ground-use Dreissen.) My guess is Anaheim got it through back channels after the first Neo Zeon war along with data they used to help develop the Geara Doga

>>23058668
And Anaheim decided to keep all that info to themselves so secretly that the Feds never caught hint of Mars Zeon or any OYW Zeon, Titans Remnants, and other losers of history ending up at Mars.

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>>23058733
>Anaheim decided to keep all that info to themselves
Of course, if only to maintain their MS development monopoly. And as others have pointed out the Federation once considered Mars too remote to govern and too underdeveloped to harm their interests. In short, it's the same mix of corruption and incompetence that created every problem the UC has ever faced.

>>23058733
Anaheim, AEUG@SSD, Jupiter Energy Fleet and who knows else that caught ReZeon "refugees welcome" broadcast or went investigating Neo Zeon connections have all banded together in concealing that information from the Earth Federation.
Or EF knew and just ignored Mars because it's not their problem or something. Until it became their problem and got easily resolved in a couple of battles after they stole F90 Unit 2.

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>>23059419
I assume Mars Zeon had spacenoid pussy to bribe them with.

>>23060204
sigh..

source?

>>23060204
I can see why Charles is so sad about her being ded (she probably is alive and chills with Liv).

>>23060204
Well they do have clones, so it's not that hard to mass produce premium genetically engineered spacenoids for earthnoid consumption if needed.

>>23060206
Mobile Suit Gundam F90 Fastest Formula Volume 7 Chapter 27 Page 6

The funny thing about Mars Zeon is the reason they wanted a Gundam was because CCA remnants saw Axis Shock and think Gundams have some insane godlike power. The problem is nobody told them about psychoframes and even if they took the data with them, it's unlikelt they randomly shat out another Haman to be their Amuro.

>>23060218
Oh, I didn't realize it was the twintails girl with her hair down. Wait, she was friends with Charles Rochester? How does F90FF end with her character? I've only got the first 8 volumes of F90FF and haven't kept up since.

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>>23060225
>they
It's just Bosch. He's not even an actual Zeek.
It's also more about Gundam AI rather than Axis Shock event.
Between EXAM System, A.L.I.C.E., BUNNyS, SNRI's Pseudo-Personality Computers and Bio-Computers he's not even particularly wrong.
A.R. AI even did the meme against him.

>>23060237
She's presumably rescued at the end but earlier flashforward chapters make it clear Charles thinks she's dead regardless of how she truly is.

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>>23060237
>Wait, she was friends with Charles Rochester?
Yes. Childhood friends at that.

>>23060212
I am now reminded of how much of a pedo Glemmy was.

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>>23060225
This >>23060225 and also Gundam worship isn't unheard of in the U.C., it's why the Titans were obsessed with putting V-fins on their scary mobile weapons. Said weapons ended up in the hands of Mars' previous ruling faction (ReZeon), who wielded them as symbols of their authority.

>>23060212
>>23064314
I wonder what happened to Mars' Puru population after the civil war...

>>23064675
>This
meant >>23060246

>>23064314
Roux was that much younger than him?

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>>23063085
>>23063116

>>23065259
absolute cinema

>>23064675
What’s going on in that right shoulder?

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>>23067836
canon functionality, pay it no mind

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>>23025534 (OP)
So is the Charles Gelgoog still the strongest Rf series mech or did that change?

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>>23071124
ENTER

>>23071124
This thing was able to go toe to toe with an F90 right? Or was it an F91? Either way that's muvh better than the rest of the RF series "premium grunts"

>>23071144
still the funniest goddamn shit they ever wrote

RF Zudah when?

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>>23071124
He fucks so hard

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Do they just have big swimming pools on mars so they can play around with their aquatic oldsmobiles?

>>23072679
Mars has an ocean under the north pole and waterways underneath other areas.

>>23072681
No it doesn’t. It’s an ‘ocean’s worth’ of water trapped in rock pores and cracks 20 kilometres deep

>>23072701
Sorry you don't like facts from people that know better than you. Mars has undergone a degree of terraforming before the project was left on the wayside.

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>>23072679
You could say that

>>23071124
They'll give Marida an RF suit that's even stronger in UC2

>>23065259
yooo

>>23074016
RF Zeong

>>23025534 (OP)
>be Mars Zeon
>decided to make machines based on OYW
>never wonder if modeling everything based on designs that lost the OYW using data from the Geara Doga which also lost is a good idea
>

>>23076581
Let's be honest, if you'd switch MS available at the time around, Zeeks would likely lose even faster.
And I say it as someone who actually prefers EF grunts.

>>23076581
Mobile Suits weren't why Zeon lost, their tech was years ahead of Federation in many related fields.
And the RF series maintains the appearance of them for tactical reasons as much as for identity. They can pose as mobile workers and old suits, which is handy since these are designed for terrorist operations first and foremost.
And on the inside they're more like a mix of late type Jegan and Gustav Karl with Geara Doga. Varied parts that are hard to trace and also simple enough that any place with mobile worker factories can follow the blueprints.
By comparison the late model RFs have superior performance using F90 data and they're visually distinct.

>>23076667
Part of their reason losing was like IRL Nazi Germany constantly approving every new fancy thing rather than sticking with something that works. That wasn't the primary reason they lost but it would've been a massive pain in the ass logistically and constantly having a hard time getting the right parts or repairs. The RFs at least have a similar interior but Zeon must've been filled with frankensteined mechs because somebody survived the battle but their allied ship didn't so they're now on your ship but you lack the right parts.

That's bound to be a downside for The Sleeves especially and all their Z or ZZ designs rolling around along Geara Dogas and Zulus. There must be tons of machines in invisible levels of disrepair or maybe Anaheim gets weird orders for obsolete machines as often as they get orders for Jegans from the Feds.

>>23076695
>Okay, this is a Geara Zulu. Sure, we have those parts. Anaheim donated them and we scrapped a few for spares so we're set. Just be sure not to use too many, they're more valuable than other outdated machines.
>What the fuck? Is that a Gelgoog? What year is this? What lost Zeon colony is running factories for this thing? We don't have a stockpile of OYW parts.
>Oh my god, that's a Doven Wolf. Those were hardly made in the same numbers as a Zaku II and with Titans tech too. Where the hell are we going to get the exact parts we need? Fuck. Just improvise something.
>A Bawoo? Really? How many of those were made? Well we don't casually keep around Project Zeta rip-off parts for when they survived their ship or colony getting raided by the Feds and coming to allied ships for repairs.

>>23076695
in fairness Zeon DID need some kind of a wunderwaffe development to actually get one over the Federation at the late stage of the war - after all, that's exactly what the Zaku was at the start. It's no surprise they tried to repeat it.
It's said Zeon would have won if Federation's counterattack was delayed and the war continued for a few months. It's just that there's no feasible way for that to come to pass between the political and economic situation.

>>23075675
RF Unicorn is also possible

>>23078708
Buy an ad you fucking faggot

>>23078714
Hey it’s a translation chill out

>>23078714
>>23079002
retard

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>>23060204
>the rich were forcing everyone else into colonies so they won't discover all the brothels they built
>all these "resorts' were filled with prostitution, much like when rich people book entire hotels and turn it into orgies
And I thought Lalah and Marida had it hard.

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Is this the new Late UC thread?

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>>23082898
guess so

>>23076698
Wasn't the Bawoo produced in pretty large numbers?

>>23083698
we see a bunch of them over the years, but not really enough to have a clear idea what kind of scale we're talking about. If nothing else, it seems less than something like Gaza models since these are frigging everywhere.

>>23082879
>much like when rich people book entire hotels and turn it into orgies
wat

>>23083841
It's a thing super rich people sometimes do. A bunch of oligarchs booking every floor and making it into a sex dungeon. One friend told me a time his other friend, attractive blond man working at a hotel, was offered money to be the bottom of a gay orgy. He didn't say if the friend sold his dignity or not but it's a thing people with too much money and not enough sense do.

>>23084805
>One friend told me a time his other friend
you understand why this doesn't sound credible

>>23084812
You should consult ex hotel staff who had to clean up one of those sex parties.

>>23084815
seems legit

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https://mangadex.org/chapter/e7d8c96c-e7cb-4168-818a-6d68bd1a6dc1
new cluster chapter

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>>23085633
<3 <3 <3

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>>23085633
Bosch... it didn't have to be like this

>>23085696
Dude thought that the Char was right.
It was over for him from the start.

>>23085775
broadly speaking, Char was right.

>>23060237
Both her and Liv just dissapear. No confirmation of what happened to them.

>>23085784
Yeah, no.
Even if some of his beliefs held ground, others are laughable and the way he gone about all that was outright wrong.
He could as well side with Jamitov or Scirocco, if he thought that what his Neo Zeon was doing is right.
>>23085917
Liv is in his masked man phase now.

>>23085998
Char WAS right. Something needed to be done about the Federation, the status quo was not sustainable in the least. And Federation wouldn't fold from peaceful protests and working within the system. He was too rash, though.

>>23027900
I think Borjarnons can be any Zaku II, both war relic and reproduction.

>>23027900
Maybe, maybe not. Who's to say, really? Just about every other Mountain Cycle MS has some hints at its origins that don't quite add up.

>>23053876
Jagd Doga derivatives minus the psycommu stuff.

>>23058733
Federation could have put in the effort to investigate the situation beyond the Earth Sphere if they tried but just didn't have the resolve to get it done. >>23078708

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>>23085633
>RF Zaku's monoeye really can look up
HOLY BASED

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>>23085633
Meanwhile from the inside of Olympus mons, the Grandzam was crushed and obliterated by said explosion. RIP

>>23086881
Mean to reply too>>23085648 but that is the point where it happens

>>23086559
This is stupid because we already have direct evidence of what the Earth Sphere would be like in U.C. post-Federation, considering they eventually DID crumble and all that followed was an era of nothing but economic strife, starvation, and various space states being at each other's throats. Humanity did not evolve in space

The Federation was never perfect, but any peace the U.C. era enjoyed happened on their watch and was built on their backs. The only real exception to the rule is the Titans, and they were more of a post-principality overcorrection that eventually became their own separate faction than an indicator of their normal behavior.

>>23060204
Who this?

>>23086856
they finally added a feature from 40 years ago, all they had to do was cut out part of the head armor

>>23086559
>Something needed to be done about the Federation, the status quo was not sustainable in the least.
Status quo was sustainable as 30 (if not 60) years of peace following CCA proved.
>And Federation wouldn't fold from peaceful protests and working within the system.
Yes, they would "fold" on their own from further development of the colonies.

>>23087626
I guess this is the level of discourse I should have expected here.

>>23087635
EF is some of the most corrupt and apathetic states around, kept by sheer coincidence of having brilliant men in right places opposing the general will of EF itself.
They'd happily enough shake hands with Zeon, Neo Zeon, Neo Neo Zeon, Cosmo Babylonia, Zanscare and who know who else, while ignoring the woes of their own people.

>>23087626
>Status quo was sustainable as 30 (if not 60) years of peace following CCA proved.
"Peace" enforced by the Manhunters, yeah.

>>23087775
remind me of all the good deeds the neo zeon did for the common people

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>>23087775
Manhunters are a big nothingburger.
It's obvious that there would be extremist groups like that or parts of EFF akin to the one that the butcher Galemson was part of.
Neither of those groups can do anything other than oppressing small groups of spacenoids with no backing that would never be able to do anything in the first place.
Of course, that is bad. But on other hand, at the same time colonies entered the era of prosperity.

>>23087775
they get a free trip back to space

where they originally came from

nigga at least bring up incidents where people got harmed or killed

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>>23087831
>nigga at least bring up incidents where people got harmed or killed
nigga...

>>23087845
It didn't happen and they deserved it.

>>23087855
You can't call things peaceful when its normal for the cops to stroll down the street in a 19 meter tall war machine and machine gun a building in broad daylight

>>23087856
but it's normal for other people to stroll down the street in 20 meter tall war machines and set the local gasoline museum on fire?

>double standards

>>23087856
That sounds bad for the traffic, yes.
One more reason for miniaturization. 8-9 meters tall MS, should be a good target.

>>23087864
You don't understand, those are peaceful protesters, spacenoid lives matter!

>>23086606
They didn't have the energy after all the spacenoid pussy they've been bribed with. If they found a way to capture and clone Lalah, they would've made them go through the same forced prostitution. We already know Puru clones get pimped out. Rich Feds on Earth would gladly pay for that.

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I love Randegger Industries

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Crane is insanely pretty

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i wonder if RX-100 will be revealed in Cluster

>>23088793
RahXephon

>>23087824
>Manhunters are a big nothing burger

Yes, after Gaia Gear was retconned out of existence. Otherwise they were just Super Titans.

>>23096451
Except Manhunters from Hathaway's Flash and Manhunters from Gaia Gear always were two different organizations.

>>23096672
>antagonist groups from two stories with the same name in the same setting with similar goals and written by the same person
You can apply the slightest bit of critical thinking, right anon?

>>23096675
Too shallow. Educate yourself more.

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>>23025534 (OP)
What about all the different new designs that have to be explained as not replacing the Jegan because F91 has Jegans?

>>23099357
you'd have it all explained to you if you looked into any of it

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>>23099357
F91 has Jegan pilots from a backwater garrison specifically complaining that they can't keep up with miniaturized MS, so I'm not sure the nature of your question.

Keep in mind, this is around the time the Federation we know from 0079-0105 is a part of history. The modern Federation mostly just wants to let space wars play themselves out, so they don't have a reason to upgrade random colony garrisons.

>>23099357
Have any tried justifying new machines as some rich colony's exclusive orders or like the colony equivalent of consumer defense stuff much like the vast majority of firearms today not adopted by any military but can be bought legally? Maybe some plot reason on illegal modifications if they need a firepower excuse.
>>23099396
Miniaturized MS replacing Jegans happened gradually but for the vast majority of the post-CCA 30 year period they're the mainline. Yes, they're replaced by then but miniaturized MS weren't formally adopted for most of that period.

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>>23099926
Not to my knowledge. Outside of the Federation and the typical Zeek remnants, there are only so many groups and locations where mobile suits are common. Mercenaries exist in UC, mostly mentioned in manga. They tend to operate older models and previous generation MS. Some colonies/sides have garrisons and also operate older surplus units. Anaheim Electronics is big enough to be both developing and operating super secret cutting edge MS, which is not a surprise. Similarly Buch Concern is working their way up, reverse-engineering and tinkering with scraps that they recover from battlefields while working legitimately in space cleanup and salvage operations. Luio and Co were operating tacticool Dijehs that may have been upgraded as they were able to wipe out a squad or two of much newer MS.

In other words, no one's paraded around the latest and greatest MS that shouldn't have been where they were found with only flimsy excuses, everyone usually keeps quiet about any semi-illegal MS they have under wraps, until all hell breaks loose and they're in open war.

>>23099926
People like Anaheim occasionally use groups as prototype testers. By that I mean like Moon Gundam a bunch of Titans Remnants got a new psycho gundam mark 4 just because Char wanted to test the psychoframe and use them as the guinea pig. Anaheim okayed it so it's still them. Anaheim also sells Messers to Mafty so I assume anyone who buys can get some machine and most colonies get obsolete weapons for fighting pirates.

>>23099357
Jegans are used as auxiliaries in late UC, if your not important or defending something important your getting a Jegan. If a mess is too big for you to clean up an autonomous force will come in and assist with their up-to-date mass production, early production, and limited production MS. Modified TR Barzams and Geara Dogas are also used as auxiliaries.

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>>23100096
Well that's the thing, in F91 the Federation reinforcements that arrived to take part in a major offensive against the CV still consist mostly of Jegans, although there's a Heavygun and G-Cannon in one of the shots.

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>>23100123

>>23100123
It likely says more about Federation taking the threat of CV seriously. At that point the latest and greatest were Jamesguns and Javelins.

>>23099926
Miniaturized MS implementation was first proposed by SNRI in UC 0102 and Anaheim's Heavygun was adopted as new mass produced MS in UC 0109.
F90 won the ATMS competition and became the officially adopted start point for further projects in UC 0111.

>>23100272
It's a tad more complicated than that.
While Heavygun was technically adopted, its spread got halted by EF quickly losing trust in it being anything more than a stopgap solution.
ATMS competition was one of big wrenches thrown in its adoption. But then, miniaturized MS spread got stalled for another reason: SNRI being unable to get F8 series just right without compromises. It got to the point where EFF decided to just run G-Cannon Naked (cannonless version) as the low part of high and low mix until RGM-X project in UC 0118 where the main competitors were Proto-Jamesgun, Hardygun and F80.
You can see in 30 years later in Victory what MS finally replaced Jegan as a long standing EFF staple.

>>23100390
Then Crossbone Dust plants the seeds of re-enlarging found by G-Savior's time. The Baroque is the first "large" suit (normal size by early UC standards) to be made in 65 years since the Xi and Penelope, it overpowers every smaller suit, and is only destroyed by another large "old" suit, the Anchor (a modified Gundam F89)

>>23099357
Frontier colonies are, by definition, a backwater so it's no surprise everything there is 10 to 15 years old besides F91 which just happened to be there at the time because of SNRI.

>>23100594
schizo

>>23100594
I don't think Dust suits should count with how funky technology is there.
Baroque in particular is too peculiar to be compared to other mobile suits period. It's like saying that previously MS became larger to compete with Big Zam and Psyco Gundam.

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AAAAAA

>>23100996
Buy an add, faggot

>>23101032
looks relevant to the topic to me

>>23053876
Straight into my heart.

I haven't built Gunpla since Wing was airing, but I kinda want a Messer to sit on my desk. I heard the kit is pretty meh unless it's modified like in your pic.

>>23105180
it's a perfectly fine kit other than a bit of strange engineering and the vulcan details on the head aren't fully molded. Which ironically wasn't fixed in that custom build.

>>23101032
>>23100996
The V3 is in SD Gundam Wars

>>23100996
Gaia Gear... Kino...

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>>23101032

>>23110432
Ok now what?

>be 1000 years after OYW
>thinking you're safe
>inexplicable "Future Zeon" remnants attack
WTF

>>23100996
I prefer Second V.

How well would a jesta do in the oldsmobile wars? Would they job just like the jegan or they would be able to put up a good fight?

>>23113637
Pretty sure that Jegan was fine in Oldsmobile Wars. Showing its age, but perfectly servicable.

>>23113637
Jegans were still the bread and butter of the EFF forces. Significantly superior to the old ones, but still Jegans at the end of the day and Heavyguns weren't really much better in sheer performance.
Logically a Jesta would get at least internal upgrades with modern Jegan parts too so it'd handle itself pretty dang fine.

>>23113637
>>23113648
Apparently REZEL’s did pretty fine as well, even acted as waveriders for heavygun’s and G-cannon’s

>>23113662
I'm surprisied we haven't seen a proper miniaturized RGZ line successor yet.

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>>23113679
Anaheim attempted it but the project fell through for undisclosed reasons. G Custom reuses the head from it.

Do any grunt from late uc have a chance at beating something like the nu Gundam? Or they never got that strong?

>>23113764
like literally every other question like this ever, it depends completely on pilots, goals and circumstances

>>23113684
We could very well see what it looks like in cluster, especially if it was so far in development that it’s head exists

>>23113766
Is this a faggoted way of saying no?
Equal pilots if it helps

>>23034875
Are you retarded? Mars Zeon is older than most of this board's users.

>>23113764
>>23113773
Funnels might be tricky, but anything stronger than Heavygun got a decent enough chance depending on loadout.

>>23113764
Outside pilot skill, if you have a strong enough newtype in a psychoframe then you might go Axis Shock by accident.

>>23114271
Axis Shock only happened because everyone (except for extra fanatical Zeeks) wished for it in that moment. Amuro wouldn't be able to do it if he was alone, it's a humanity miracle.

>>23114538
More like it was a untested Psychoframe gone haywire. For once, a main character rushing an unfinished prototype into combat has consequences and not just wiping the floor with everyone.

>>23114774
Technically, not entirely wrong, but that's a boring explanation that goes against the movie themes.

>>23113764
As long as it has beam shields it can win Especially if it's the MS from the Victory era provided equal pilots.

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>>23113764
Ask Judau.

>>23115988
He is clearly updating his ms, even if the updates are shit

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https://x.com/Char_Tweet/status/1893965875432112156
the Crossbone panel on next future was even more popular than GQuX

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i love verethragna

>>23120338
Why?
Legit question, not throwing shade or anything. I'm trying to figure out why doesn't it click with me despite usually liking designs like that.

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>>23120569
>huge arms
>they're wired weapons
>heat weapon
>it's a spear
>newtype fuckery built-in
>cool mask
>the devil got its horns back
Also love for the Mars F90 and an extremely obvious AoZ reference. What's not to love, really?
Only thing that bothers me is that we still don't have a lineart for it.

>>23120595
I guess it's too super robotty and too complete for me, leaving barely any room for further improvements. Neither of which is bad, but it doesn't feel like a Gundam MC MS and it goes against F90 mission pack appeal.

>>23121504
It's a bit off-topic, but you know, I would be interested in Hasegawa drawn GQuuuuuuX manga.

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RF Zaku FZ in the new chapter

>>23121758
At this rate nuking the entire solar system won't get rid of all Zeon Remnants.

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>>23121758
>F80 gunpla

>>23121795
wew, that was quick

>>23121758
monthly mobile is about Hardygun, no pics yet

>>23121758
That could be just another early type wearing FZ armor for cosmetic purposes, it’s been mentioned in one of the monthly mobile about it

>>23121863
in other words, a RF Zaku FZ

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>>23121867
I dunno about that. The difference is likely not drastic enough for a separate designation.
Even Lehr Dogas are officially called just Geara Doga Kai by Earth Federation.

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>>23121838
Found it on the wikia, there’s a second page too but if this is translated we might get some deep cut references of the other gunpla variants back in the 90s

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>>23122103
Other page

>>23122103
where the fuck does the wikia get this shit

>>23122091
alright, if we wanna get technical it's a RF Zaku Early Type styled after Zaku II FZ

>>23122103
>>23122106
give me a while and I'll get a rudimentary translation

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>>23121758
i think the anon saying it's just a bodywork mod is right
traditionally the knee armor is supposed to stick inside the calf and thigh armor
the knee armor on this RF juts out instead like the xeku eins knee armor

>>23122103
[1]
>Anaheim fell behind SNRI's Formula Project and launched the Silhouette Formula Project on June 14, UC 0112
>AE began endeavoring to acquire - legally or not - technology on par and surpassing the Formula series
>As part of that, RGM-111X (Heavygun II, also known as Heavygun Custom) that previously lost in competition with F70 was redesigned into RGM-111 with the nickname "Hardygun" and development began in UC 0112
>This was concurrent with the F71 project that turned F70 into a unit viable for mass production
>As such, data from F70 and F90 was incorporated
>RGM-111Y1, rolled out in march of UC 0114, was a compromise between RGM-111X and F70
>Although it had high performance comparable with F70 it also shared similar problems with difficult maintenance and high cost
>Deemed not viable for mass production

>One theory suggests the project incorporated data from a Gundam-type MS developed by AE's Von Braun branch for the ATMS project, separate from MSA-0120 but this is not considered credible.

>In August of UC 0114 RGM-111Y2 (G Custom) was rolled out, incorporating MSA-0120's Mega Boost.
>It was a one-off suit for special forces and was never intended for mass production
>Nonetheless test data from Y1 and Y2 was useful and incorporated into both F71 and RGM-111
>From that point on prototypes from Y3 onward were designed with the assumption of sharing parts with the F71
>RGM-111Y3 was rolled out in October UC 0115 with the nickname "Proto Hardygan" in the military
>It's unknown what it was rereferred to within Anaheim
>It was deployed to several squads that had a good relationship with Anaheim, including the Luna II Fourth Aggressor unit, and full scale tests began
That's the squad we saw in F90FF
>At the Y3 stage, its generator and avionics were similar to contemporary standard suits but the backpack was similar to RGM-111X with a built in hardpoint system and the beam rifle was similar to RGM-109's (Heavygun)

>>23122103
>>23122122
[2]
ACQUISITION OF THE V.S.B.R.

>RGM-111 was intended to use the VSBR as the main weapon from the start
>The concept of the weapon itself - which first saw practical use with F90V type in February UC 0112 - was not new
>The theory dates back to before the OYW, to when the mega particle cannon was invented
>VSBR is a system that that interferes with mega particles as they are ejected, changing the effect on target impact
>Magnetic field interference can adjust he initial velocity, penetrating power and explosive power of the mega particles but VSBR can optimize the efficacy by adjusting it in real time for the most optimal solution
>This system can't be adopted for E-CAP type beam rifles and is only applicable for beam cannons with a direct link to the generator
>The theory was simple enough, but applying it in practice was extraordinarily difficult due to troubles with miniaturizing the particle acceleration technology for real time control in a MS-sized machine
>It only became possible with F90's holocube-type synapse computer
>As such, SNRI's VSBR design was inseparable from the fire control system
>The FCS was black boxed, which cut off Anaheim's and Buch's ability to reverse engineer the system
>It's believed SNRI and EFF General Staff intended to limit and control MS development in the private sector, but Anaheim was impatient
>RGM-111's backpack mounted gun was initially envisioned as a downsized version of RGM-96X Jesta Cannon's beam cannon, or a railgun based on MSA-0120 Draig's high impact gun but both of these ideas were far inferior to the VSBR.
>In May UC 0116, at a time when the Federation Assembly was abuzz with Hauzerie Ronah's Second Earth Preservation Bill, Anaheim suddenly acquired VSBR tech
>The source of the technology was not clarified even in AE's internal records, so industrial espionage is almost certain
>At the same time, Buch acquired similar documents
>This may be linked to the terrorist attack on Frontier 1 in March

Could a random semi skilled pilot be able to solo the whole zeon army if he was brought from the future piloting a Gundam V2? How much damage could he make if he has unlimited ammo

>>23122103
>>23122132
[3]
>...by NSP and Republic Liberation Front, but the details are unknown
That's when Kagatie stole the data
>Thus, the completed RGM-111, rolled out in August of the same year as F80 and equipped with a simple backpack-mounted VSBR, caused quite the stir in the industry
>SNRI declared that an infringement on their patents but Anaheim's lawyers were known for ironclad defense and managed to reject that
>Nonetheless, the copied VSBR data was incomplete and the design would only be finished with the RXF-91 (Silhouette Gundam) which could be considered the equivalent of F91
>SNRI also accused Anaheim of stealing frame and external armor data of F70, but Anaheim insisted Heavygun was a redesign of RGM-111X
>Hence it still retains the model number despite being produced years later
>The Hardygun was then submitted for the next mass produced MS competition "RGM-X" together with F80, it's virtual enemy
>Hardygun boasted high general purpose performance with firepower of F90V and F70 while retaining the maintainability of RGM-109 and F71
>However, its production cost was also on par with F70
>In the end RGM-118X Proto Jamesgun won, owing to its high degree of refinement and completeness.
>But just like F80 which found a role in special forces, RGM-111 was deployed to regular forces and Manhunters as a high spec mass production MS, similar to the old RGM-79N GM Custom and MSR-00100S Hyaku Shiki Kai Mass Production Type
>During the Cosmo Babylonia Founding War it was not deployed on the Frontier Side (some suggest it may have been in small numbers on Frontier II and III)
>There's few records of battles at the time
>But subsequent local conflicts gave it opportunities to prove its high performance
>It can be called a masterpiece MS and the culmination of the Silhouette Formula Project

>>23122103
>>23122149
[4]
>Incidentally, since this machine VSBR implementation became commonplace, especially from UC 0130s onwards
>Even weapons called "beam" or "mega particle cannon" are often in practice VSBRs
>RGM-111 was also deployed in Amelia's Defense forces, and it's believed future BESPA models could also incorporate simple backpack-mounted VSBRs as secondary equipment together with beam rifle and shield
>These could be called RGM-111's descendants

Fucking hell this was long. Very cool though.

>>23122146
could a random semi-skilled tank crew solo the entire roman empire if it had infinite ammo?

>>23122153
I especially like this bit, it's a convenient explanation for stuff like Victory's waist cannons or Rig Contio's shoulder cannon which are sporadically referred to as VSBRs. Makes sense that by then the tech became pretty standard so it's not always referred to with its special name.

>>23122122
>One theory suggests the project incorporated data from a Gundam-type MS developed by AE's Von Braun branch for the ATMS project, separate from MSA-0120 but this is not considered credible.
I could swear this was mentioned somewhere in old materials too, but at the very least it's another tidbit about Anaheim's internal factions that were touched upon in F90FF. We know Vice President Lau opposed the Silhouette Formula Project but was killed in an "accident" which also led to loss of two MSA-0120 units and reportedly Psychoframe samples. Nevertheless his faction remained and worked against the AE portion that supported Legacy.
There's some shit going on in the background we have very little idea about.

>>23123868
>RF Gelgoog J
fuckin nice

>>23123868
so Mars F90 Unit 2's AI is probably the one developed by Jupiter SNRI
...Scirocco?

>>23124946
Might be alluding to the Jupiter empire

>still no Mars F90II or Verethragna line art
Disappointed, but VSBR lore and MG F80 confirmation are nice

>>23124968
I was expecting some references to some obscure hardygun variants but this is much more interesting because we now know VSBR technology wasn’t not only not abandoned after its initial appearance, but that potentially a lot of if not outright all of the beam cannons and mega particle cannons seen in victory and probably crossbone are in fact VSBR’s, also explains how they pierce through beam shields in those installments

Is mad wang 1160 uc Canon? If it is then would it be the consider late-late-late-late uc?

>>23125630
Canon isn't real.

>>23067841
>equipped with dangerous weapons such as nukes, bioweapons, and newtype weaponry
Purus confirmed for nuclear bioweapons.

>>23125753
Are cloned hookers that have built-in STDs or explode bio weapons?

>>23125797
Only if you interrupt their bath time.

>>23125635
Sure, but continuity is.

>>23126432
Not to the extent or detail you think.

>>23126465
But quite likely to a higher degree than you're willing to admit (even if it is often a one way relationship).
By the way, I 100% understand what you're getting at, but further you follow the line of thought the less meaningful the work becomes.
In the end, it's also an unhealthy way to look at it, so just let people have fun being serious about meaningless made-up shit like "canon", it's a part of what being a media otaku is about.

>>23126510
no, it's part of what your idea of what being an otaku is. It's really not necessary and doesn't enhance the experience in any way. All you're doing is forcing typical western perspective onto media that weren't made with it in mind at all, it just makes things messy.

>>23126512
Having fun with and enjoying things you love isn't the point of being an otaku? I don't know about that.
You might be right about it being just my idea though. But why don't you just let people be doing things their own way? You don't have to be autisically against others mess.

>>23129089
TL?

>>23133344
And there it is, it’s full name and list of weapons it can use.

>>23133344
>F80 Cannon
Huh.

>>23133370
It’s just he standard F80, but it has an official name now and that’s one of its optional parts for the standard type. The F80 really would’ve been a good MS for the federation but alas

>>23133390
Is that a diss towards my buddy Jimmy Gun?
The only thing it might lack compared to his competitors Gunraid and Hardy is F90 mission pack compatibility.
I called it F80 Cannon because it reminded me of Cannon backpack one could see in GM II days. It also looks like the same machine cannon F70 CANNON Gundam got.

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>>23133344
>machine cannon
neat, feels like a nice parallel to its rival and reflects SNRI's kink for the mega machine cannons going back since their establishment
I wonder how the hyper bazooka, 150mm cannon and beam cannon look.

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>>23133433
But Hardygun's machine cannons are mounted in its chest and thing on its back is Beam Launcher?
This is quite literally just F70 backpack option that was mentioned in Monthly Mobile.

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>>23133460
"mega machine cannon" is a pretty wide archetype
and I meant just in the sense of having the option for a large backpack weapon despite being a general purpose suit

>>23133469
At times I wonder if they ever design some option that lets you swap shoulders on the fly if you're using tall cover that's open on one side.

>>23133490
I doubt it, that seems like really specific functionality and the hardpoint structure doesn't lent itself to that. Closest thing I could think of would be having it mounted on the left side in the hangar, maybe as part of a general left-handed setup.

F60 when?

>>23133344
Nice, so we finally got the proper name. I remember asking whether it got one in these threads and no one seemingly cared.
Also, it's interesting that they showcased it with F70 backpack, rather than the standard F80 one. I wonder if it is a preview for MG gimmick? I'd love a Cannon Gundam model kit too. Underrated suit.
>The F80 Gunraid belongs to the F8 series of mobile suits, designed as the prototype for mass-producing the F90.
So that is a confirmation that F80 was just a prototype for future F81 and not the finished model intended for mass-production, am I reading that correct? Because it could also mean prototype for MPT F90 or something.
And another question, is that a confirmation that entire F8 line was supposed to follow F90 design? It would explain why Flint is F97-E, rather than F8-something.

I've been thinking, N-type mission pack isn't really suited for mass production due to how rare newtypes are.
Wouldn't it be neat if there was a Quasi-Psycommu + INCOM version of it?

>>23134613
I don't think it was intended for mass production in the first place, Job John meant it for when Amuro came back.