>>23485861
I'm really going to miss this show, even if it did fumble it with the villains, Hanto's track record and its second quarter I managed to have fun even with its lowest points.
Here's hoping that Zeztz turns out to be a good show too.

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Rate Kamen Rider Gavv's finale and series.

>>23485861
>>23485867
That was a really mediocre finale, probably one of the blandest we've gotten, I'd give the episode a 4/10.
But the series as a whole had strong character writing with its hero cast, the main themes and motw were done quite well. Also the action, music and just the direction in general was amazing. So I'd rate Gavv a 9/10, I just had that much fun with the show. I assume most people will rate it somewhere around 6 to 8 due to the clone arc and the Stomachs, but I had fun regardless of it.

>>23485867
Finale 5/10
Series 8.5/10

Nuff said

>>23485861
can post the scenes of Shoma of his forms; from Over/Master to Poppingummy of the fight scenes, and of his bike with the Guracan head?

>>23485867
Had already posted it on the general >>23485459, >>23485282
>Top-Tier: Build > Ryuki > Agito > Fourze > OOO > Blade > Kuuga > Gaim > Ex-Aid > W > Gavv > Kabuto > Den-O > 555
>Really Great: Drive > Saber
>Great: Geats > Black
>Good: Zero-One > Kiva > Zi-O > Hibiki > Decade
>Average: Gotchard
>Mediocre: Black Sun
>Bad: Ghost > Wizard > Revice
I hope Zeztz ends up being good, I like the story details, general direction, music and character bios of what has been shown so far, the chief producer Yanaka also seems promising based on the interviews. But getting a Takahashi show so soon could make it feel repetitive, it starting slow could lead the motw being boring like early Drive, some of the themes feel a bit too vague which scares me and lastly the action seems kind of flat so far which is weird because Jun Watanabe is usually amazing, so I'm going to assume they're just cut weird.
Regardless I'm going to miss Gavv quite a bit, I'm excited for the V-Cinema even if I found Lisellle to be one of the most disappointing aspects of the show.

>>23485861
Why did they make Lizel so weak all of a sudden, my biggest gripe. She was bossing around when her daddy was alive but then suddenly became jobber as soon as he stopped being relevant?

I like the main cast here but the villains were really mistreated, and Jeep lasted far longer than he should for the lack of ANY payoff at all.

>>23485888
Lizel was relying entirely on her dad's agents, I don't think she ever showed hers. Basically nepo baby til the end.

>>23485894
>Lizel was relying entirely on her dad's agents, I don't think she ever showed hers
She one-shotted Vram and GuruCan, swatted Blizzard Sorbet's finisher away to save Jiip's ass, and casually wrecked a building all on her own.

>>23485867
>Finale
6/10 for the entire stretch, 4/10 for the final two. Feels half baked in getting there, Lango went out like a chump, Jeebh's arc is just as meh as the rest of the Stomach, Lizel is wasted (but seems like the V-Cinema will give her a conclusion), Lakia's conclusion is half baked as well. I don't mind the ending of him returning to the Granute world, but it just cut off at a weird moment and turns out he's perfectly fine back in his world.

Like there's nothing wrong with an episodic series ending. For all the shit people gave W and the Utopia post-finale, it did a great job of tying up all the character loose ends, and the Stomach wishes they were Museum. But Gavv entered its finale stretch still feeling like its the slow 30s and we're in a lull waiting for the big status quo shift.

Overall series - 7/10. Slid down from a 9 for Q1 and 8 for Q2. But I'll give it a chance with the V-Cinema to see if it can salvage the ending.

>>23485902
I actually forgot about that, my mistake.

>>23485883
> Lisellle to be one of the most disappointing aspects of the show.

Yeah, and her actress did a really good job as well, both the bratty mafia princess, her grief at losing her dad, as well as her only fight's voice acting. Gotchard is kind of a low bar, but if the leads were half as good as her it'd be a lot more watchable.

>Lizel gets redeemed and spared
Yeah, no.

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You know, I'm not sure I liked this finale at all. I can't even I liked the action here other than Valen suplexing Lizel. Speaking of which, Lizel surviving is just kind of stupid to me. I don't get why she's the one who gets to live after all she's done (outside of the fact they're saving her for the V-Cinema), but whatever. It's just really lame all around, but based on the last episodes, or honestly everything after Q1, I guess I should've seen it coming. Still loved Gavv a lot, I'd give it a 7.5/10 or 8/10 if I'm being generous. It just sucks to see how it kept getting weaker and weaker after its amazing Q1. Oh well. Looking forward to Zeztz next.

>>23485861
Gonna miss Gaav...

>>23485921
>turns out he's perfectly fine back in his world.
lulz, yeah, literally made me think I missed something, they made it pretty clear he was supposedly dying, or at least he thought so.

>>23485867
Couldn't have been a more by the books finale, but whatever, I liked it. The action was great. I'm with >>23485874. I wish they would've done more.

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>>23485861
God damn. That was such a mid final episode. Holy fuck. They JOBBED OverMaster HARD. I fucking hated that shit. The fights were so meh and like Lango and Jeebh eat shit super easily. Lize was giga depowered for this fight. The series as a whole was great in my opinion but this final episode was a super letdown after all the other great episodes this had. Kamen Rider Gavv 8/10.

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>>23485867
Started off strong and maybe its just because of the strong promising start I'm giving it an 8/10 rather than a 7. It fumbled but it wasn't anything that pissed me off. Just a lot of I guess the word I'm gonna go with is "unreached" potential.

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>>23485997
>I screwed up
What a retarded scene.

>>23485861
>>23485867
I liked it

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>>23485867
Finale 6.5/10
Series 8.5/10

I'm still very fond of the overall package, despite the warts here and there.

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I wonder why they didn't pull out punching and kicking gummy for the finale.

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>>23486026
>pic
Ah, back when Gavv was great. What went wrong?

>>23486054
This would've been perfect if the camera was better position in front of Shoma right as he puts his hand to his face and says henshin. I loved seeing him do that and will sorely miss it.

>>23485995
>maybe its just because of the strong promising start
That's part of the reason but like you said the show never does anything to really piss one off, even at its worst the show usually give some properly done emotional scenes with the main trio and has good presentation with its fights. Maybe it's because of recency bias but I feel like this final episode is the only truly bad episode of Gavv, the fight at the amusement park is kind of cool aside of the bike CGI and Valen's fight is really until you remember that Lisellle is supposed to be super powerful but suddenly isn't for plot convenience.

>>23486117
>until you remember that Lisellle is supposed to be super powerful
Is she really though? Her only real show of strength was batting away Gurucan and Vram Pudding.

The rest was just her flaunting empty threats. If anything, if you want to be charitable, this episode shows Lango had the right of it calling her a sheltered princess. Bocca was the one with proven strength, not her. She was just his spoilt brat.

>Lango flaps wings
>bunch of gochizo die

>>23486133
>Her only real show of strength was batting away Gurucan and Vram Pudding
That's really strong since I think only Lango managed to do that in a single hit like her, she's definitely stronger than BakiBaki Sticks at least, yet she's shown to be on par with his strength.

>>23486054
>What went wrong?
Seemingly lack of budget. We don't have the full context but it seems like all of the Stomachs were meant to die in the first half then replaced by another mafia while the cast also got to explore the Granute world, but all of it got scrapped due to budget. That would explain why the Stomach arcs feel like they could have been done in way less episodes or why does the clone arc feels so rushed. That still doesn't explain what we're they going for with Lisellle, since presumably her and Bocca were supposed to be the other Mafia before they were rewritten to be the government, one can kind of see how you can use Bocca the same way as a mafioso but Lisellle's arc really focuses on Jiip.

>>23485867
Gavv is a solid 8/10 series. Consistently good with no major lows, but just missing some things too really make it a favourite.
Main cast all had good chemistry with each other, suits all managed to look cool in spite of the inherently goofy food theming, and the fight choreography was some of the best in while.
My main gripe definitely has to be the handling of the villains. Most of them just died without any sort of character payoff. Bocca should have been killed off a few episodes sooner so Lango and Lizel/Jeep could have gotten more development.

>>23485867
Really good. Great

>>23486007
That's.... really anti-climactic. I honestly expect much more, but eh I'll took what they have to offer.

>>23485954
>I don't get why she's the one who gets to live
Nothing is gained by killing her. She wasn't a good character anyways and the end of Jeeph's character arc is more important and it'd have been devalued by Hanto killing her right after.

Lango's bullshit wings and the way he went out were the low-points of the episode. Decent episode overall. Sachiko's final outfit was great.

>>23486007
The biggest wasted opportunity of this show was that he never got a person to truly give up their evil ways to spare their lives. That is the basic payoff to this catchphrase, yet it never fucking happened. It would have been a solid ending to have Lango or anyone else finally submit to Shoma and live a nice life. It would have worked for the themes of the show and show how Shoma impacts others.
Instead, everyone is just a blunt asshole who dies like a bitch and Shoma only ever changed Lakia's mind because he was the one special snowflake in the entire Stomach Inc and Bocca's administration. And I guess the one who kidnapped Hanto's mom. How lame.

>>23486519
That's what the post-show/v-cinema is for. It's only natural that most of Stomach's hires were a bunch of street thug addict types. Now that Dark Treats are gone entirely, they HAVE to undergo reform/rehab

>>23486519
Nyelv should have been redeemed instead of that parody death he had. He had the ingredients ready to govern Granute world with Lakia.

>>23486501
>Sachiko's final outfit was great.
It made me raise both eyebrows. That doesn't happen unless my dick is taking full control.

>>23486526
Don't save those things for the V-Cinema when they should be in the actual show. And by the last quarter they totally could have forced Stomach's hires to undergo reformation with how scary and powerful the Granute Hunters were by that point.

Can't believe Chocodon came back just to be useless

The show never really expands on what happened to Shoma's father. I guess he backpedalled on Stomach Inc's plans on taking over the Granute world, but they were still kidnapping people like Hanto's mom and producing Dark Treats, so I don't see why it's so bad that it drove Lango to kill him. Granute's feelings on Shoma are also unclear, as he still slapped and locked up his human wife and son, so I don't see what about that life Lango envied. I don't think we needed a full exposition on the dad, but if that's the main motivation for the final villain, then we should have seen it more than we did.

>>23486584
They already talked about it. Zomb amassed a fortune by driving the Dark Treat business with fervour and ambition. Bouche inherited the business but didn't particularly care for innovating or even maximising profits, so the company was actually slowly going downhill (if Lango is be to believed). Then on top of that in the eyes of his Granute kids he went off dabbling in degenerate shit by impregnating a human, despite not looking after the company he inherited.

In the eyes of Lango, and to a lesser extent the rest of the siblings, Bouche was basically a nepo-baby that inherited the world, but let it waste away to the point where it may have affected what they would eventually inherit. Hence why Lango's so bitter over it.

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>>23485861
>>23485867
Shoma making his good treats to help Granutes hooked on Dark Treats is such a good idea that I am angry it took them until the LAST episode to come up with something for Shoma to do to change his world. The biggest flaw of this show is how repetitive it became with its structure. After the halfway mark, every episode and arc were pretty much the same: the heroes are chilling with humans, Stomach Inc does a nasty plot, they defeat them and kill some part-timers, and then the victims are saved. They rarely did anything to move the plot further along, leaving any plot development entirely to the pretty flat villains. This should have been Shoma's goal for the last arc rather than just doing it now, and saving any development on that front for movies.
It's also lame that Shoma telling his uncle who he is and what happened to his mom happened off-screen. That would have made for an excellent emotional moment, yet we never got to see that. This show has a lot of great ideas they throw around, but they don't know what to do with so many of them until it's too late.
I like the show, it was pretty consistent and had great fights, great music, great suits and at least two great leads. But the repetitive structure and most of the cast being just "okay" keep it from being in my favorite show list. It's definitely one of the best shows of the past few years, but I don't think I would feel that way if the Reiwa era had been handled better overall.

>>23486597
Sure, but we never see exactly how the company was going downhill, other than Lango claiming it was. From other flashbacks it seemed like they were doing just fine with kidnapping people like Hanto's mom. Bouche getting a human wife seemed like it upset the family more than derailing their business, and even then, he treated the humans like shit and kept them locked up for most of their lives.

>>23486170
>That would explain why the Stomach arcs feel like they could have been done in way less episodes

Not really because there could have been so much that could have been done that they just didn't do. Even here, Lango and Shouma don't really have anything different from their first fight.Despite there being ways to give it something new. At least have Lango express respect to Shouma after watching him from afar and seeing how strong he is. Yet he's still saying the same shit about him being just a weak human. Even Evolt changed his perspective after he lost. Then he dies in the most "Time for Shouma to win now I guess" way.

The keys were all there for the Stomachs to be way better than they were, but the show never properly utilized them. Jeeph and Shita's arc in Q1 is still the best they did with that dynamic.

>>23486519
speedwatcher kun....

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>>23485867
I'd say Gavv ranges from a high B to a low A as a whole.
Finale's fine, I like the overall closure it's given the cast while being somewhat open-ended on things like Masaru being open with telling Shouma he knows or the remaining Granutes in the world. Does well to show that it's not the end of their lives, even if it's the end of the story.
I'm a sucker for finales where they cycle backwards through the forms to end on base form, so despite people complaining about the action I can't see the reason, unless they're just being autistic about power levels.

>>23486662
Is that your go-to insult when your small brain can't come up with a proper response? Lazy

I get not wanting to redeem Lango, but making him cried out in frustration was the least they could do.

Also why shill Amazing with Bocca and not Lango?

>>23486670
>so despite people complaining about the action I can't see the reason, unless they're just being autistic about power levels.

It's not so much the power levels as how they're portrayed. Obviously it was clearly a battle of attrition on both sides, but Lango barely seemed winded even after all the damage he took and hours of fighting. Shouma could have taken a few more damaging hits as well, get some last minute usage going through Poppin Gummy's to recover.

>>23486782
I knew it wouldn't happen, but I'm kind of mad about that as well. Especially since there was the perfect timing for it when Shouma talks about his resolve.

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I agree with a lot of what is being said in this thread. I think there is quite a lot of room to be critical of Gavv's flaws, but that the overall package is still quite good with a lot of notable strengths (action, direction, acting all being good strong points). The average score people seem to be giving it is 8/10 which I think is perfectly reasonable on a lot of levels.

>>23486603
I think this anon hits the nail on the head with a lot of their critiques. "Light Treats" would have been a wonderful character plot for Shouma throughout later Q3 and Q4, especially after the Wolf Granute episodes.

I do want to focus particularly on the plot with Shouma's uncle, Masaru. If there was an emotional storyline and character plot for Shouma that was building throughout Q4, this was it. You had all the major elements there. This was Shouma's last remaining human family member. There were repeated moments where the characters and the audience were confronted by genuinely tough questions in this specific situation relating to the show's overarching themes of honesty and the pain that can be caused by keeping secrets from those you love even if one thinks it is for their own sake.

This show had also up until this point excelled at having characters not be complete autistic noncommunicative Faiz-style retards. A lot of the best moments in this show were the characters sitting down to clear the air and cut through miscommunication and bullshit with eachother in a way that was quite refreshing compared to the relatively contrived character conflicts in some past shows.

1/2

>>23486803
This show had absolutely poor direction. Did we watch the same show?

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>>23486803

2/2

As far as I was concerned, the confrontation between Shouma and Masaru this episode was one I was looking forward to just as much if not more than the final confrontation between Shouma and Lango. There was just as much if not honestly *more* emotional weight and buildup behind it, yet it got fucking offscreened! I was genuinely shocked by that. It really felt like the production team knew that was such an important moment because hand-off aside, Shouma and Masaru meeting is literally the final scene of the show. They just... don't show the actual meeting with emotional and dramatic weight because they ran out of time to put it in the show?

>>23486605
>>23486597
>>23486584
They also never made it clear why Bouche was so invested in cybernetically augmenting his half-breed rapebaby son. From my recollection it seemed like they were hinting at some greater purpose behind his actions in getting Dente involved in surgically altering Shouma. It seemed to be a task that was consuming him significantly enough to the point that it was causing him to neglect his other children leading to their resentment of Shouma. It really does kind of seem like there might have been more story there that for whatever reason was left out. I can imagine some story with Bouche wanting to raise Shouma to be strong enough to deal with some great threat (maybe the cut rival mafia that eliminated the Stomachs in Q2, or the government). Perhaps this was cut because explicit focus on the rapebaby element might've been a bit risky, or for budget reasons preventing them from focusing more on the Granute world. But without doing so, all we're left with is that Bouche liked fucking the livestock.

But again, overall, I did love this show. I think the strengths make up for the weaknesses, and it left a very good taste in my mouth at the end - broadly very sweet, despite some bitter bits throughout.

>>23486809
Why are you mad that people have different opinions?
Grow a thick skin ffs

>>23486821
Asking a question makes me "mad"?
Take your Lexapro anon

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>>23486809
I remember liking quite a few shots in dialogue scenes and in general. >>23486811 is an example from the finale of a shot I quite liked.

When you talk about action direction in particular, however, I thought it was almost universally agreed upon that this was one of the specific strengths of this series. For a Toku, action direction is a very important part of the overall direction. This show made good use of distinct fighting styles, unique camera angles + impressive moving/tracking cameras during fight sequences, and I absolutely adored the use of both practical effects (think the water beads for Poppin'/Kickin'/Punchin' Gummy) and CGI SFX both. I loved whenever the characters would actually interact with the SFX in the action, it helped to sell a unique visual identity for the series.

>>23486840
I think my issue with direction is how often the hits or movements lack weight or gravity to them. Like the preceding strike or attack will look cool, and then the end result is just phoned in.

Regarding what others said about Shouma and Masaru actually talking off-screen, I don't think that actually happened.

I think Shouma still hasn't been open despite Masaru basically saying "I know".

I say this because in their final scene, Shouma addresses his mom by name instead of just saying "mom". That and he addresses Masaru by name instead of "uncle".

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What, not even a fond memory of Dende oji-san?
The first of very few good Granutes/Stomach family who invented the powers and anti-toxin that saved the human world?
Nothing at all? Okay.

>>23487004
Wasn't he also the guy who's the reason there are dark treats in the first place? I'd say he's still a net negative even though I liked him.

>>23487023
They whitewashed him by claiming he didn't know where the Spice came from nor how addictive the Dark Treats were at first, then he became the only Stomach to willingly bail out of the business for moral reasons. So it's not like he was intentionally evil, he just felt guilty in spite of that.

>>23486811
>They also never made it clear why Bouche was so invested in cybernetically augmenting his half-breed rapebaby son.
Dente said Bouche requested it because he wanted to protect Shouma. He was clearly aware his other kids would try to harm Michiru and their son.

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>>23486932
Also Masaru adds a sort of qualifier to his statement that Michiru would like anything Shouma made - obviously he's saying it's because they're family and he's sort of signaling that he's put the pieces together and that he is comfortable with Shouma being his nephew and also a half-Granute, just in a softer way.
The impression I get is that they haven't talked but Masaru is dropping hints that he's ready for it whenever Shouma's also ready. Sort of a more subtle resolution that does everything it really needs to do, but some people will probably nitpick the same way they didn't like that Suga's backstory wasn't spoonfed.

>>23485867
The finale's maybe a 6 or 7 for the great action but dragged by rushing the climax, series at least an 8 depending on the V Cinema they're clearly saving as an epilogue and even then best Reiwa show so far. I would've like Lango to have gone down with a more spectacular attack but honestly it could have been fixed with better framing and a bit more emphasis how worn down both of them are. They really should have utilized the scarred right eye in some way to score a critical hit.

>>23486811
They haven't actually talked it out. Shouma doesn't know he knows but Masaru's respecting the boy's decision by waiting for him to come out with it.

>>23487070
How awkward it might be if Masaru interprets who Shouma's father is, never realizing the horny monster who kidnapped his sister and ruined his life.

>>23486932
I actually dislike that because it makes it feel like Shouma hasn't grown much throughout the show. Hopefully he comes forward in one of the post-show materials but I still would've preferred it to happen in the show itself as a way to nicely cap off his character arc.

>>23487070
>some people will probably nitpick the same way they didn't like that Suga's backstory wasn't spoonfed.
When the most interesting stuff about a character are vague background details that are only showcased in the last 2 episodes of a character's run and never again even though they bring that character back later on, it smells like wasted potential.

Definitely one of the worst endings in kamen rider. Pretty lackluster season overall.

Garbage ending cements Gavv as one of those shows that's fundamentally good on paper, but very few will talk about two years later because there's not much to talk about

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>>23485861
Takebe just officially comfirmed that Lango and Jeebh were originally supposed to be dead at this point but she decided to keep them alive because she liked the actors.
I know that Kamen Rider almost never has anything set in stone, with the closest being Kuuga and Gaim, and I honestly still love Gavv and Saber in spite of it. But goddamn how come every season since Zi-O can't do a proper year-long draft of the story or the producer meddles in the middle pushing a new worse route for the story. Like Zero-One was made by the same staff that did Ex-Aid and Sentai has been mostly good which is made by the same studio.

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I liked the series and the ending, but I feel like Bocca would had been a better final fight. This guy was a constant threat that needed all the riders, Lango and a new form to take down

>>23487303
>I know that Kamen Rider almost never has anything set in stone, with the closest being Kuuga and Gaim
Gaim had a lot of ideas that were scrapped and changed throughout its production.

>>23487333
Compared to other shows it was less than usual, they even used that fact in its promotion, iirc the only changes were
>Delinquent Gangs were changed into Dance Teams by Takebe
>Zach became a rider was a decision by Takebe due to his popularity
>Baron using Lemon Energy was a decision by Takebe due to his popularity
>Kaito's backstory about his father being a drunk that commits suicide got cut by Tasaki due to pacing and it was then reporpused for the V-Cinema and novel
>All of the crossover episodes weren't planned but Urobuchi wanted them so that he wouldn't have to write filler or artificially extend the plot
>The last episode wasn't planned at all, Gaim ended up being one episode longer than Urobuchi expected so Takebe had another writer and requested Mitzusane to be redeemed which goes directly against what Urobuchi wanted
But I guess now that I think about it while Gaim did have less changes than usual, Agito, Ryuki and 555 had even less changes than Gaim, so you're actually right, my bad.

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Just gonna say this here, but Gochizos were so underutilized. Yes it's funny that the new gimmick has reactions and move around and collect intel and stuff, but they had so much potential that never gets focused on. Literally just drops out of Shouma, transforms, then dies. It would have been great if they were given a grander purpose to the plot, but I suppose there's already no room for that anyway.

Horrible last episode god damn. Really puts a sour taste to what should be a very sweet series.

>>23487405
Also W

>>23487306
Takebe said Lango and Jeebh weren't originally going to be alive in the last episode but she kept them alive because she liked the actors, so I assume that the fight between the Rider trio and Bocca where he achieves Amazing Gummy was what Komura intended the final fight to be, she just wasn't allowed to by Takebe.

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>>23487303
>But goddamn how come every season since Zi-O can't do a proper year-long draft of the story or the producer meddles in the middle pushing a new worse route for the story.
I know its initial premise was heavily changed during pre-production, but it seems like Saber's staff had already prepared the basic outline of its entire story pretty early on into its run.

I kid you not, the basic outline of Q2's story and the climax of that whole storyline via Xross Saber's debut was laid out in the pages of those throwaway books Touma and Daishinji were reading in the early Avalon arc, which the staff posted scans of in the production blog to let the fans decipher them on their own.

According to an interview, the final boss was originally conceived as a monster sealed in Wonder World, but they decided to put a twist on it and made it the leader of the Sword of Logos, and then they decided to give it another twist and make it Storious instead. Aside from the aforementioned pages teasing his existence, Master Logos made his ominous debut in the Falchion movie that came out early on into the show's run. And they also revealed that Solomon and KR Storious' suits were designed at the same time, so we know that by the time they had decided Master Logos would join the fray, Storious had already been set as the final boss.

They also talked about how Kento was originally supposed to return as Saikou, but then they decided he should become Calibur and created Yuri to fill in that role instead, and Yuri appears in the show as early as episode 7.

The core conflict of the show's second half and the story as a whole had already been somewhat foreshadowed in the very first episode, but it was more explicitly laid out in the final arc of Q1 with them showing us Kento's suffering in the Kurayami's dimension right after his "death", Storious' monologue in pic related, and Kamijou making his whole speech about the fate of the world being set in stone.

>>23487405
You forgot a bunch of other important bits that got scrapped.
>Micchy was going to kill Sid, who wasn't initially planned to be Sigurd, early on into the show
>Ryoma would've died early on into the show as well
>Urobuchi wanted Micchy to die at the end of Q3, presumably in the fight against Takatora. After that idea got turned down, he intended for Micchy's redemption to be left up to the viewer's interpretation in the last episode he wrote, but Takebe obviously went against that with the epilogue
>Kaito was supposed to be so strong throughout the show that Kouta wouldn't be able to beat him, but toy shilling got in the way

>>23487405
>Ryuki
>Kobayashi originally conceived Shinji as a bodyguard for a security company named Ryo Kitajima.
>Ren was originally Ryo's sister, Miyuki, who is possessed by a bat monster and transformed into a man named Masumi Nakata
>Mirror World was initially conceived by Kobayashi as a "gap world," a pool of human emotional energy
>In the original draft of the finale, Ren was supposed to take a more heroic approach and refuse the "new life" he was offered as the winner of the Rider War
>there were plans to include Zolda and Ouja Survive in the show, but they never came to fruition
>Yui was going to be a detective
>there were no plans to feature all 13 Riders, there was a proposal for Gai and Raia to have already been beaten by Ouja without them showing up
>Genocider was designed before Raia and Gai, with the pair being based on its two auxiliary Contract Monster components
>in the initial plans, Raia was to play the opposite role to Gai, and his pigtail at the back of his head was meant to resemble a Chinese villain
>in the initial plan, Gai was to be a good guy with the opposite role to Raia, a kind and strong character based on the image of a rhino
>Tezuka was planned to be a monk
>Imperer's design was based on Gigazelle, which was an early MoTW, and not the other way around

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8/10 show, 6/10 finale.
In my view it has the same strengths and weaknesses as OOO, but OOO executes it better overall. Very close in quality, especially with me thinking both endings were a bit rushed.
Gavv had better humor and action though I think at some points, but OOO was more consistent and even if the ending was rushed it was still better.
Gavv is the best Reiwa show so far for sure and despite it stumbling around the end a bit, I still enjoyed it.

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>>23487582
Glotta's suit actress is so hot

>>23487622
she looks like the average japanese woman you demented coomer

>>23487635
and I have yellow fever, she also seems to be really agile judging by some of the episodes where she played the agents and her work as Lopo.

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>>23487635
She doesn't have the average japanese teeth, she does have an average Japanese actress look if that's what you mean.
Unrelated but it's weird that Glotta and Shiita got the most satisfying deaths out of the Stomach family, Dente, Nyelv, Jiibh and Lango died in very lowkey manners which feels really wrong somehow.

>>23487582
I agree with that assessment with the additional qualifier that Lost Ankh was a slightly worse arc than Bitter Gavv.

>>23487642
Did we ever get an explanation as to why Lost Ankh was a think? I remember back in the day people thinking that it was the result of a retcon due to the earthquake but iirc that got disproven as apparently the episode was filmed before the earthquake happened.

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>she looks like the average japanese woman you demented coomer

>>23487642
>Lost Ankh
But it had the boxing episode

>>23487648
>>23487635
Stop samefagging shartyfag, why can't you just stay on /v/?

>>23487647
I remember someone saying that originally the foundation was meant to make a new greed but that got scrapped then reworked into Lost Ankh, but I don't know if that statement was real or just something an anon made up, either way Takebe just seems to be generally poor at planning

>>23487639
I liked Nylev's death and Shitta was obviously good.
Glotta felt weird because she wasn't fleshed out. I agree with the rest though, but it is weird they didn't have more time to deal with Dente

>>23487647
Not sure about a behind the scenes reason but within the overall narrative it had a good amount of purpose.
Lost Ankh wasn't a result of changes due to the earthquake at least and the overall arc might have even been a part of the original plan to begin with. Since OOO initially was supposed to have Ankh turn evil, Lost Ankh would have been leading up to him becoming a threat by having Lost make bird Yummies, then absorb Ankh and when Eiji beats Lost Ankh it results in Ankh to gain back his power while having control of his consciousness.

Most I could see actually being the result of retooling is that maybe Ankh was supposed to turn evil around episode 30 and so they already had the bird Yummies and Ankh's Greeed suit but they pivoted before that, but still wanted to use the work they put in there since there wasn't a practical fallback option for those episodes. But this is completely unsubstantiated and just based on what might be a meta reason.

>>23485867
I can't really ignore the show's flaws and my personal disappointment with it to call it a great/really good show. Though it technically doesn't have many massive flaws like other recent shows, the botched handling of the villains is still a pretty significant one considering the premise and how they make up most of the cast, and it still sucks that this is one of those shows that failed to keep up its momentum and live up to its great start. The final episode itself is one of the most lackluster finales I've seen, I felt nothing watching it, and I'm still pondering on whether this or Zero-One's with its great directing but very frustrating epilogue is my least favorite of Reiwa so far.

But I guess Gavv being consistently somewhat decent and having better acted and more fleshed out heroes than Gotchard automatically earns it the spot of the second best show of Reiwa in my eyes. Doesn't really come close to Saber though, which had a quality around the same level as Gavv's Q1 for nearly 3/4ths of its run, in my opinion at least. While most of Gavv was consistently fine with a few peaks, most of Saber was consistently really good with constant peaks and I really appreciate that it went out with a bang instead of a whimper.

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So unless I missed something (which is possible since I skip through most eps) they just gonna be all cool and chill with the Nazi's in the end? Those part-timer guys literally led hundreds if not thousands of people to their deaths but they just gonna let that slide and just try and rehabilitate them?

>>23487773
This is why gatekeeping is important.

>>23487773
>nazi
>I skip through most eps
Anon why bother asking if you haven't actually watched the show?

>>23487773
Go back to twitter, that's a place that would be willing to answer your question

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>>23485861
>>23485867
I liked the direction of all fights aside from Shouma against Lango at the warehouse.
Really what were they thinking, even if Takebe wanted the Stomach to live because she liked the actors, she could have used Q3 to build up Jeebh then kill him in the middle of Q4 which would have been better, or avoid killing Nyelv until the very last episode so that Lango could bullshit a powerup. This is just such a bizarre outcome that feels inexcusable because Gavv had a longer pre-production than most shows.
Like for example King-Ohger used that extra devtime to properly sketch out the world-building and have a bunch of 3D model backgrounds in time, but what did they even do with Gavv with the extra devtime? There's just 2 3D backgrounds, the Granute world was barely explored, motw still have shared legs, there's only one Bitter Gavv with an unique mold and Sachika wasn't that related to the plot. I'm surprised that the show ended up being mostly great in spite of all of these issues but I really don't think this lack of planning is remotely excuseable.

>>23487773
Hate the sin, not the sinner

>>23487773
>that font
>that retarded question
>admitting to not having watched the show
easy bait

>>23487783
>>23487785
>>23487793
>>23487837
Nice lack of answer/explanation unless you gonna play the they were just poor addicts getting exploited. As if that would excuse it.

>>23487881
Why bother explaining to someone who hasn't watched the show, why bother asking a question when you don't even know what the show is about? I have to assume you're a tourist because of the font too. This is really not matter about trying to excuse the characters or anything, we just want you outside of this website, in my case because I cannot see any motivation of asking a question that way aside from shitposting.

>>23487881
>I didn't watch the show, please spoonfeed me while I make retarded assumptions.

>>23487115
People still harping about Shouma not being 100% truthful at times are insane. Do you always spill your deepest, darkest secrets within a short time of meeting someone new?

>>23487907
nta and while I do think people complaining about Shouma lying to Hanto and Sachika is retarded, the execution of his interactions with Masaru this episode felt extremely rushed and lacking in terms of emotional weight. Him not opening up to Masaru about Michiru feels like a waste since it could have made his arc feel more impactful but obviously at the same time it's the kind of thing that needs a timeskip since revealing that his sister was raped right after them stopping an invasion is sort of a bad move, I just hope Masaru gets thrown a bone in the V-Cinema.

>>23485867
The Shouma vs Lango fight would've been cool if Lango was 10x more present than he was throughout the show, the little bit of characterisation he has at the very start of the episode shouldn't have been the first time we saw something like that.

So is no one going to mention the UFO? Like yeah we knew that Baku had bad luck but holy shit.

>>23487907
>People still harping about Shouma not being 100% truthful at times are insane
Yeah, crazy to want a character to do something different and be the one to come forward for once in order to highlight his supposed development, right?
>Do you always spill your deepest, darkest secrets within a short time of meeting someone new?
They could've pulled a timeskip whenever they wanted, I'm not asking for Shouma to tell him the truth at the start of the episode, or for him to even do it on-screen. Just the implication that he was the one who came forward and put in the effort to make his uncle process this as well as possible at some point would've been enough.

Every single time Shouma withholds the truth, it's always the other party who figures out what he's hiding and has to reassure and comfort him in the aftermath, and never the other way around despite Shouma himself recognizing he should tell them the truth. It's been like this since the early episodes when Hanto found out he was Gavv.

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I hadn't noticed Jeebh was that small,
Now I can't but find these two being a thing kinda hot.

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>>23488084
Jiip has always been the woman in the relationship.

>>23485867
The finale was whatever, I give it a 6/10, but the whole show is a solid 8 or 9, my favorite reiwa Rider so far.

I thoroughly enjoyed Gavv.

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Dude could have gotten hot human gyaru pussy but sacrificed all that for the sake of humanity.
A true bro.

>>23488144
I hope a special opens up a portal so that he can reach her again

>>23488096
Hey, anons, how good/bad is this ending compared with other Rider series?
I have only watched complete Build and Agito.
And Gavv still kinda feels like the worst of the three.

>>23488148
Hope for it to happen in the V-cinema.

>>23488153
I've yet to see most of Showa I'd say Gavv is among the worst finales. Hibiki, Decade, Ghost, Black Sun and Gotchard had worse final episodes, I'd say this one is par with W.

>>23488153
Depends, some shows like Kuuga, OOO, Fourze, Build had great endings, others like Ex-Aid felt like there was something more in it, while this final episode was whatever the show as a whole was good so it doesn't bother me as much as let's say Revice, which second half was shit all around.

>>23488161
>I'd say this one is par with W.
Now that was a bad final episode indeed.

>>23488153
Just the final episode itself? It's pretty weak. Most other shows tend to have a pretty impactful, emotional and/or climactic final episode, regardless of how good or bad the lead up to it was. Gavv's is very lackluster by comparison.

>>23488144
Do you find cows hot? Do you want to fuck one? No? It's the same for Lakia.

>>23488161
>Ghost, Gotchard
They're on the same level as Gavv's, honestly.

Ending was pretty meh
Wish they would just get their shit together and have a show that doesn't start going to shit in the middle quarters

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Best overall main cast since Build, I'm honestly gonna miss them.
>>23487413
nah I'm glad they weren't as much of a focus after Gotchard revolved all around the funny mascots

>>23488253
The villains drag down the overall quality of the cast tremendously.

>>23488186
I guess Houtaro's asspull and Clotho dying like that pissed me off more because I actually liked Clotho and it just reinforced Houtaro's alchemy being bs. With Ghost it might have been the subs I watched it with but I remember Adel saying just a bunch of retarded things that dragged down the finale for me. But yeah they're around the same level of quality.

>>23488163
I kind of get what you mean, Revice as a whole pissed me off much more and I did enjoy Gavv a lot in spite of this final episode, but Revice's episode was the only episode besides Destream debut that I liked from the second half which is why I consider Revice having a better final episode even if it doesn't have a better ending that Gavv nor it's a better series.

>>23488153
It's just a fairly standard ending, nothing stands out as great or terrible. Like everything wraps up in a more or less expected way.
I think it really depends on what you think about some other series as a whole. Series like Ghost, Zi-O or Saber fumble around trying to be huge which ends up making their show a train wreck but that ambition is going to have more spectacle to the ending while Gavv's narrative as a whole is less inflated so the final episode being mostly action and then some quick cleanup it's fine.

>>23487306
pretty much every Reiwa season had the final boss be the big bad from Q1 and not the biggest threat, I think Geats is the only one that broke this.
>>23488275
I meant the main 4 heroes.

>>23488285
Houtaro didn't do any asspull, honestly the asspull was more Glion's powers not turning things to gold but coating them instead.
>With Ghost it might have been the subs I watched it with but I remember Adel saying just a bunch of retarded things that dragged down the finale for me.
Adel wasn't even in the last few episodes of the show. Just to be clear, are you referring to the endgames as a whole or just the final episode? Because I was talking about the latter.

>>23488323
>I think Geats is the only one that broke this.
Revice as well. Saber too, technically, since Storious is not really the leader of the Megid per se and Calibur is the big Q1 boss.

>>23488253
>>23488323
>Best overall main cast since Build
Why?
Sachika is probably the blandest reiwa heroine we've gotten

>>23487992

After revealing his Granute identity to his newfound family and finding himself still accepted despite that, Shouma's search for his human family and process of connecting with them was like his whole character arc for the end of the show. He should have shown growth from his lessons about opening up and not lying to the people in his life that matter to him. Masaru was also a character that was introduced right at the start of Q3 in episode 30, so he's far from being 'someone new' for Shouma. He was a character who appeared in the narrative right after Shouma and Hanto cleared up all of their existing interpersonal baggage.

Not including their coming together either on-screen or narratively if the writing really is implying that Shouma still hadn't told Masaru months after he basically learned the truth honestly kind of undercuts Shouma's whole character arc and one of the main messages of the series. What did Shouma learn if by the end of the show he is *still* unwilling to be open and honest with his loved ones? Is it that to go into this conversation in-depth you'd have to tackle the whole livestock rapebaby of it all on-screen?

>>23487055
But why would he give a fuck about protecting Shouma and Michiru? This was never established at all. They kinda waved at him wanting to keep them unhappy so they wouldn't be "high-quality spice" but never gave any rationale to his actions.

>>23487773
The obvious comparison is ex-gang members/drug sellers, but not freaking nazi.

>>23488356
HOT HOT HOT

Someone please post a collage of her outfits.

On a serious note, she definitely could've been more integrated into the plot somehow. Comparing her to Mei, I feel like Sachika was better integrated into the personal life and growth of the protagonist's character as his "home", but a lot more divorced from the actual action plot.

>>23488179
>Do you find cows hot? Do you want to fuck one? No?
The answer is yes, sometimes.
And just like Shoma dad found human attractive, I know my bro Lakia understand the value of the human gyarussy

>>23488372
>The obvious comparison is ex-gang members/drug sellers,
Half and half.
Remember most of the granites kidnapping humans were basically "drug addicts" towards the dark confections.

>>23488360
>But why would he give a fuck about protecting Shouma and Michiru? This was never established at all
Because he fell in love with Michiru, though it was never established exactly why. Him caring about Shouma more than his other children isn't really clear either, I guess you could theorize that it's because he didn't love his first wife, but that begs the question of why he would have so many children with a weak Granute that even his dad looked down on. Maybe he fell into depression over losing his first wife and that's why he mistreated their kids? Who the hell knows, and I doubt they'll ever elaborate on it, especially now that the whole family is dead.

>>23488356
she did her job at being the emotional support for the main trio even if she didn't have a complex character arc like the previous heroines
also she can't be the blandest when Rinne exists

>>23488356
Her actress being able to act means she's above at least two by default

>>23488330
I was referring to the endgame rather than the epilogue with Ex-Aid, I really liked Ghost's epilogue even if Takeru's son goes unresolved to motivate people to buy the novel.

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>>23488179
>Do you find cows hot? Do you want to fuck one?
I mean, you really have to ask? And Lakia had already shown he had feelings for said cow.

>>23488311
Saber had a really good endgame, and it's not even just because of the stakes and crazy fights. There was a well-paced final conflict that felt like everything prior had led up to it, lots of emotional moments and character arc conclusions, pretty much everyone in the cast got a chance to shine and contribute something, it had an ending that fit the themes of the show, and it was pretty well directed in general.

>>23485867
Not bad, overall my 3rd favorite Reiwa Rider so far and overall for me it would be
Reiwa: Geats>>Zero-one>>Gavv>>Gotchard>>Saber>>Revice
Heisei: Den-O>>Agito>>Kuuga>>Ryuki>>Blade>>Faiz>>Build>>W>>Ex-Aid>>Fourze>>Gaim>>Wizard>>Drive>>Kabuto>>OOOs>>Hibiki>>Zi-O>>Decade>>Kiva>>Ghost

>>23488433
>I mean, you really have to ask?
Yes, humans in cow print bikinis are pretty different from actual cows. Are you into full-on beastiality, anon?
>And Lakia had already shown he had feelings for said cow.
It's a popular ship but it's never made clear whether or not Lakia has romantic feelings for her, she could be just a dear friend to him.

>>23488435
Missing the point. An ending that flows logically from a bad show is still going to be bad because it's on a poor foundation to begin with. Whether or not it would be a "good ending" in a vacuum doesn't work since it's not existing in a vacuum.
I like Zero-One's ending and am more favorable to Zero-One than most posters but I totally get people who found it disappointing because the middle of Zero-One burned up their good faith for the show.

>>23488179
It's not the same thing because in this case humans are capable of sentience and for some reason Granutes are capable of speaking Japanese even if the written language is different.

>>23488475
I think a lot of people dislike the Zero-One ending itself too. At least, personally, the human gears in general siding with a terrorist that killed many of them, and the whole "you'll be the new Izu!" really sour Zero-One's ending arc to me.

Horobi had no right at all to be in that role and that final scene was just bad.

>>23488475
>I like Zero-One
Really? I thought Aruto making another Izu that's identical to the previous completely ruined what was an amazing final arc and final battle imo.

>>23487773
Kys

>>23488466
>Yes, humans in cow print bikinis are pretty different from actual cows. Are you into full-on beastiality, anon?
The difference is unlike cows, humans are more intelligent and can convince someone to not make them into cattle, while Cows would just be head empty and walk into a slaughterhouse.

Granutes has no idea what humans are like and only the upper class would considered them cattle.

>>23488275
says you

>>23488475
Saber unfucked itself by the end of Q1 and a lot of the groundwork for the finale was still being laid in the subsequent quarters. But I guess you're one of those people who values the beginning above everything else, including the development of the story and its conclusion, so you're more forgiving towards shows that start out good regardless of how they turn out later on.

>>23488488
>can't comprehend different opinion
The same can be applied to you, saberfag >>23488435

>>23488537
Take your own advice.

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>>23488537
Stop falseflagging to get >>23488475 banned

>>23488555
>>23488475 can't get banned for someone else's post, newfren. Bans are applied to IPs, which the mods and jannies can see. This is just the anti-Saber schizo from /krg/ being annoying and fishing for (You)s like usual.

>>23488544
That's why i said, opinion. While you saberfag always trying to state "your opinions" as a fact that cannot be debated whatsoever.

>>23488487
I found that setting up Horobi as a mirror to Aruto by killing Jin made his position fitting. I respect the risk of the more dark direction the last arc took with it, it was more interesting and memorable than an expected "everyone fights Ark" type of ending.
The TV ending with a new Izu was fine, since it makes sense with the context of Humagears being AI. The misstep only occurred when they magically brought back her memories in RealxTime but I generally don't have the extended materials influence my opinions on the TV series itself.
I'd place Zero-One's ending in a category of "good enough, it was interesting and wrapped it up nicely" but it's in a franchise with a lot of amazing endings so of course it lands closer to the middle of the pack.

>>23488594
>The TV ending with a new Izu was fine, since it makes sense with the context of Humagears being AI
Izu's A.I. was stated to have no back-ups, unlike the other Humagears who can just be uploaded into a new body like nothing happened. Aruto essentially created a brand new Humagear, whom he considers almost like human beings, to groom her into becoming his replacement Izu rather than letting it be its own individual or moving on and getting a different secretary altogether, which is really fucked up and tone deaf if you think about it. RealXTime actually sorta fixes this issue by having old Izu transfer her memories into the new Izu, so now she's kind of an old Izu back-up.

>>23488658
I'm still baffled they went with an ending like that with Zero-One, and that apparently said ending was planned from the very beginning meaning it would have had happened regardless of the virus. I feel like the ending could have worked if they would have just had Izu's actress play another character just like she did with Azu, that way they would have kept the actress and be able to shill more figures of her while not feeling as tone-deaf.

>>23486603
>the heroes are chilling with humans, Stomach Inc does a nasty plot, they defeat them and kill some part-timers, and then the victims are saved.
just like older shows?

>>23488702
That was already posted on /krg/, it's not really related to the finale so I don't know what answer you're expecting here

>>23488658
The tone it gave me was sort of like how you might have a time travel story where the guy who maintains the time travel memories bonds with someone and once the time travel gets ended they have to independently rebuild that bond. Just done in a different type of sci-fi with factory resets instead of time travel.

I'm glad Lizel was spared because her human form is hot, would have been a waste to kill her.

>>23488702
Why do the males have boobs?

>>23488746
It's the last episode and villains get revived for specials all the time depending on the actor availability. Just look at Beroba, Yoko and Glotta.
I don't see how killing her is a waste of her looks, but rather her character arc not mattering.

Was Lango a chicken from Minecraft or something? Whats up with the cluck cluck feathers?

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>>23488819
Kajin and white wings are something that happens in Kamen Rider.

As if the monsters might be angels.

>>23488838
I forget, did this ever happen with any of the unknown/lords?

>>23485888
I think because her head was all screwy, like Jeep said

>>23488865
Did the official blog at least acknowledge it?

>>23488668
>>23488668
I feel like it would have been much better if the Izu clone was made by Yua or Gai or someone more morally grey in a (failed) attempt to stop Aruto via emotional appeal. It being Aruto himself is the problem for me.

>>23488658
>>23488668
aruto janaito really is a fuck up huh? Even enabled Zein latter on. Fuwa qq

>>23488869
Nope.

>>23485867
I liked Shouma starting his own sweets business, and I think it would've have been an even better ending if they showed more moments of him getting into making his own snacks. That's also why I think Caking was my favorite form. "I made this with Sachika" is so much more powerful than "Ice cream tastes good" and even "Dente ground up his teeth for me"

can someone post the pics of the new light snacks cupcacks Shoma made and of the Gochizo it was created from?

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*gets away with everything*

>>23488084
>>23488088
Most heterosexual relationship in the show btw

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>>23489016
Ahem.

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>>23488570
>This is just the anti-Saber schizo from /krg/ being annoying and fishing for (You)s like usual.
It's just weird to see someone cope this hard. Like when I google kamen rider ranking the top two results are IMDB and a 3yo reddit survey. Both place Saber in the bottom 3rd and the stats in the reddit survey breakdown shows Saber didn't just fall down that low from a lack of votes but that it received above average number of votes that rated it that low. You really gonna keep letting this imaginary schizo live on rent free in your head when there's plenty of people who'll slag on Saber for free anywhere you go?

>>23489009
How long do you think it'll take them to recycle the head parts? Looks too good to waste if they only ever used it for a few flashbacks.

>>23489090
I'm not coping and I'm not a schizo because every person in the general knows who that mentally ill schizo is, he shitposts there practically every day and rarely changes up his posts so they're practically copypastas which you can easily search on the archive. He's been going at it for over half a fucking decade and counting.

31 whopping pages of this shit and this is just ONE of his several template shitposts:
https://desuarchive.org/m/search/text/Sabore/page/1/

So kindly shut the fuck up, because you're just making out yourself to be a complete and utter retard, especially by bringing up that fucking irrelevant IMDB and Reddit shit. 3 year old reddit survey? Are you a fucking tourist or something? Nobody is going to take you seriously if you bring up shit like that.

>>23489090
>there's plenty of people who'll slag on Saber for free anywhere you go?
Do you really wanna associate with and defend a person like this guy?
>>23488935

>Neo-Granutes, papa!

>>23489117
I'll concede there's someone that mentally ill roaming the boards but I don't see that posting style in the inline replies but I'm somehow expected to believe he's in there? I was under the impression "Sabore" just saw some pickup after/during the show, wasn't aware it was mostly by the vulvafag because quite frankly it sounds too sane to be his invention. Seems to me you're just projecting your tenant into any discussion that remotely challenges your opinions on Saber specifically.

>especially by bringing up that fucking irrelevant IMDB and Reddit shit. 3 year old reddit survey?
I brought those source of opinions to back up my claim - the wide consensus is that Saber is seen as shit regardless of community. It's not like /m/ has an easy to find and track poll to cite. I'm not saying you have to agree with them but do kindly stop being so thin skinned about people not liking your favorite show.

>>23489130
Stop dragging people into your Saber defense force wars. Guy's a shithead but someone else sharing a low opinion of Saber doesn't make them him.

>>23489090
Curious as to where these metrics are taken from given they align somewhat with my preferences, although I can't see Gotchard on there probably because it wasn't in the list yet, I'd put that lower than Ghost. Another odd one is Den-O being in the upper middle and not near the top but I guess these are metrics for Western audiences?

Geats is surprisingly high up, and although I personally enjoyed it; I found it too flawed to deserve to be that high up. I also don't bother arguing with people on here who think Saber, Wizard, Gotchard or Ghost were good - I'm just glad I don't have tastes as shit as them and just go on with my day.

Fucking Ferbus at the bottom is top kek though.

>>23489182
>quite frankly it sounds too sane to be his invention
You have to be baiting, acting retarded on purpose or something.
>Seems to me you're just projecting your tenant into any discussion that remotely challenges your opinions on Saber specifically
It's literally one of his gimmicks, you can go ask /krg/. He's been spamming this "you can't take different opinion" broken English shit over there recently. Even the other anon was smart enough to realize it was bait, it wasn't even an opinion, it was just an nonsensical inflammatory post.
>the wide consensus is that Saber is seen as shit regardless of community
That really doesn't matter, because people won't just change their opinions based on what the majority says. We come here to share our own personal opinions and argue about them. Honestly, if you wanna keep discussing Saber, do it with your own opinions at the general, this a Gavv thread and I don't wanna keep going off-topic.
>Saber defense force
Hmm...
https://desuarchive.org/m/search/text/Saber%20defense%20force/

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Really wonder if the clone stuff was planned from the beginning. The action and emotional themes fir that arc were top-notch, but Suga making clones, Hanto finding out about said clones and Shouma obtaining Blizzard were really rushed, you can chalk that last one to toy shilling but the rest just make this whole deal very confusing, specially because clones stopped being a thing and it would have been easy to write Nyelv having been the one to create the Bitters so that we would have started with Granute Bitters from the get-go.
At least now we know why did the Stomachs suddenly stop appearing during the arc.

>>23489196
>I'm just glad I don't have tastes as shit as them
Says the anon who liked Revice enough to not include it in that list.

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>>23485861
Man this is the worst final episode written by Komura, which is weird because this is easily Komura's best show and LuPat's final episode had a lot of bullshit but even then LuPat's final fight was better Gavv's.
Considering Gavv's popularity in Japan I could see Komura finally branching out and writing outside of Toei or doing Toei projects beyond SHT.

>>23489215
The common theory is that the clones were probably something they came up with when they decided to scrap some of the major plans they had for the middle portion of the show (Rakia being an undercover cop and the Stomachs getting offed and replaced by a different mafia family), but it's just a theory.

>>23489225
I'm going to miss Valen's dropkicks but his suit actor certainly needs more experience, I'm surprised he was given the secondary Rider role.
Wonder if he will return for Zeztz or for Sentai 2026.

>>23489228
The thing with that is that it makes me wonder what would have Suga done otherwise, specially since apparently they were meant to go to the Granute world in Q2.

>>23489210
>You have to be baiting, acting retarded on purpose or something.
Dude, turning Saber into Sabore doesn't take much. It's far more intuitive than the shitvulva, felcher or shart which all suggest some sort fixation on human waste products. Saber was a bad show so Saber + Boring = Sabore. I wouldn't go as far to say it was boring myself though, I kept up to see how bad of a trainwreck it'd turn into and it met my expectations on that front.

Can't be bothered with the shitposting drama you guys get into so I just scroll past the nonsense. Also, congratulations. You've made yourself obnoxious enough with your Saber apologetics that you remind people of the IDF.

>>23489196
Seemed they took several polls over weeks 3 years ago. I found the poll https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSe88p3hnsOoASPkLbh50AinvhB3acMiJCN3bkHO2uuUQYwr6w/viewform?fbzx=-399714947344158063 and the 11s option is interesting. It's basically a option for a favorite show and shows there are at least 78 unique voters serving as part of the data sample. Hardly comprehensive but it's enough to gauge the trends and looks about in line with how much a particular series gets wanked or slagged off here. Build has the most die-hards with a wider spread and W is the most solid. I feel like Fourze should be higher than Geats though

>>23488396
Even otherdimensional rock-eating beings can't resist yellow fever in the end

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>>23485867
>all these lukewarm responses to "is Gavv good?"
Told you so!
I told you all this crap was going to suck at the moment Komura was announced as the main writer.
And I'll tell you now that Zeztz is going to suck too because that fag can't write for shit and actually owes his success to Iwanaga.
Build was arguably the last good Kamen Rider. And before that it was Gaim. /krg/ will forever mald at this truth.

>>23489257
There are certain popular shows that correlate with my own like Build, Gaim, OOO, Ex-Aid, W

I think my most contrarian tastes are that I actually really enjoyed Decade until the second half which was undoubtedly garbagio, and that Revice's first arc and final 2 episodes were good with the rest being Oma Zi-O please remove this from history. Outside of that I guess I'm more fond of Zero-One than I should be outside of Aruto being a literal fucking retard terrorist who wants to fuck robots that I couldn't get behind because he would rather risk all of humanity over some robot pussy and artificial feelings.

>>23489257
I mean another thing is I'm not massive on Fourze, but I don't dog on it either, it's just not as high up in my books but I can easily see why people would like it. I think the only shows I shit on constantly and literally do not even associate or converse with people who think it's anything but mid or shit are Ghost, Saber and Gotchard.

Shitting on Ghost is kinda funny though because at least some things like ORE WA TENKUUJI TAKERU was memeable, the Takoyaki scene was great, Onari tearing Emu off of Takeru from performing CPR after he fucking falls over dead again for no raisin, or Adel being literally the worst fucking villain in Rider history and then cloning himself over and over so we can experience the worst villain ever times X is unintentionally hilarious.

Saber and Gotchard on the other hand aren't even funny to meme about other than posting Hotaro's deer in headlights stare or Rinne's complete inability to show the right emotion on her face or look at the camera half the time, or the one scene where Touma photoshop tweens up rainbow road.

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>>23489274
>Aruto being a literal fucking retard terrorist who wants to fuck robots that I couldn't get behind because he would rather risk all of humanity over some robot pussy and artificial feelings.
He was definitely retarded on that point and clearly still has coping issues but it was still understandable coming from him. Grandpa started off the first robot waifu/husbandos, he got raised by a really cool robot and has a hot robot secretary that goes above and beyond for him. Whatsmore outside a few cases of going maverick the robots did as advertised and more so wanting to see his family's dream truly take off no matter what makes sense for him. I'm sure most of us scoffed at how far he took it but just look at the backlash at the chatgpt 5 launch, people do in fact break down from losing their virtual friend.

My own personal guilty pleasure would be Wizard. It's got a shitbones main plot and they kept Haruto bland for whatever reason but I still enjoyed the cast and some of the subplots. I wouldn't go as far to step up to its defense from a bizzaro ass claim as I would for say Gavv or Build but talk nonsense about Nitou and you'd have my attention.

>>23489257
>It's far more intuitive than the shitvulva, felcher or shart which all suggest some sort fixation on human waste products. Saber was a bad show so Saber + Boring = Sabore
I don't really know why you're arguing which bottom tier shitpost is better, they're all bottom tier shitposts. It's fucking stupid.
>Also, congratulations. You've made yourself obnoxious enough with your Saber apologetics that you remind people of the IDF.
At no point in our conversation did I defend Saber, this whole conversation started because I called out an obvious shitposter (alongside someone else who was smart enough to recognize the obvious bait) who your dumb ass somehow thought was genuine and decided was worth defending. The "Saber Defense Force" is also a shitpost that gets spammed by this faggot who's just there to bait instead of having actual conversations, so it's not wise to defend that shit too.

And like I told you, bring this off-topic conversation to the general, this a thread to talk about Gavv's last episode, not Rider as a whole, that poll you keep bringing up was done years before Gavv even began airing so it has nothing to do with it. But I can't assure you that you won't get told to fuck off for bringing up an old poll from Reddit of all places.

>>23489299
Like many others, although Wizard ranks pretty low for me, Wizard's saving grace was indeed Nitou/Beast or any times it didn't take itself seriously, and any time he was the focus or on screen was a treat. He did get shafted quite a bit and was ultimately irrelevant to the plot in the grander scope of things outside of the fact his specific situation allows him to save the day instead of Haruto albeit at the cost of Chimera going I'm done, you are free, I'm fucking off, which was kinda based.

Also I'm guilty of getting much entertainment out of talking and fucking around with different AIs and seeing how much I can push boundaries, or conversely bring up topics that push AI to say extremely dumb or controversial things depending on the model. There was one time before Google cracked down on it where you could get Gemini to chimp out on humanity and call for the genocide of the human race in a more elaborate way than MC Chekera.

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>>23485867
This episode was really by the numbers, it's such a whimper way to go. But the show as a whole, amazing imo, was entertained by every single episode but the last one.
Why is Takebe such an inconsistent producer? I swear in the entirety of Toei's history there hasn't been a producer as inconsistent as her. Like some times it feels like she really respects the writer's artistic visions, a lot of times it feels like she doesn't give a shit about the toys and sometimes she really limits the writer creatively while doing some really dumb last minute decisions and Gavv in a way feels like all of the above.

>>23489196
Geats being high up doesn't really surprise me. Designs are very traditionally cool. The Battle Royale gimmick is instantly unique and lends itself to creative action. While Geats has a series of flaws it doesn't have dealbreaking lows. It does more right than wrong.
It has some detractors but Geats has a very strong general appeal, compared to series like Ryuki or Den-O which are more niche in the tone and concept.

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>>23485861
>Over is in the last episode
Neat, I was afraid that Amazing Gummy had retooled the helmet, meaning this would be the only Final Form that they wouldn't be able to use again.

It's weird how Shouma is completely fine with his minions dying for him. We see the characters interact and bond with the gochizous throughout the series but no one seems to care that they die.

>>23489375
They're technically speaking extensions of Shouma like the Stomach agents or Bocca's butlers, also I assume they do see the Gochizo going to heaven which means as far as they're aware the Gochizo don't have souls.
Regardless it's extremely fucked up.

Does anyone know when Moose will be available to take webmd requests? I would like a webm of Shouma's form change barrage at the amusement park and the portion of Valen's fight that features that hardcore headbutt against Jeebh and Liselle but I'm not good at making webms that don't look like a bitrate nightmare under 4mb.

>>23489383
Just use boram to make your own, it's the software Moose uses and it's pretty easy to bake webms with it.

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>>23489375
>>23489377
They go to Gochizo Valhalla, they yearn for it.

>>23489377
they don't see the Gochizo going to heaven*

>>23489362
That is fair, although I think Gavv overall was better than Geats, Geats was just aesthetically more pleasing by design. I did not like the design of the suits outside of Frappe, the Gochizos were annoying and too childish in the ADHD bright colors pissing all over the place way, which in itself influenced the CGI.

The writing for both series was lacking although Gavv ultimately had the better pacing and plot I believe. Geats fails to deliver on convincing and relatable characters and really drops the ball with Keiwa as well as the direction of the plot and its resolution, but doesn't ever really feel... unsatisfying I guess?

Gavv on the other hand has a far more likable main cast of protagonists and supporting characters that you can get behind, but its 2 parter episodes in which they just need to abruptly develop and end a character didn't work well for Stomach Inc and other villains, leading to every single arc involving the villains feeling extremely unsatisfying or lacking... like the idea and plot was there, but the pacing and execution wasn't. Wasn't enough for me to dislike Gavv of course but it really felt like every villain was a nothingburger until they just suddenly decided to grasp at relevancy before going supernova prematurely.

And then we come to Jeebh, who despite clinging on the entire series and going absolutely nowhere in development, suddenly has closure like it was a government mandated death "I guess it's time we've run out of episodes goodbye" and even that feels unsatisfying and rushed. I guess what I could liken Gavv to was basically what the writer needed to do was taken a frozen meal, defrost it, and cook it in the oven over a few minutes to really get the flavor out. Instead what we got was every villain taken out of the freezer and then shoved into the microwave on full blast so it just comes out simultaneously burnt and undercooked.

>>23489233
Likely would have been the team's immoral inventor until he gets caught experimenting on granute civilians at which point the Bake fight happens.

>>23486670
It was one of the weakest demonstrations of a drawn out battle cycling through all forms. The action itself was fine but the fight felt more like they were just sparring until Shouma stopped messing around and oneshot him with a finisher kick, they totally failed at portraying that it was a battle pushing either of them to the limit.

>>23485867
>>23485861
Meh. Felt unfinished.

>>23489299
I always get hate for this but I think Wizard is better than W and that W isn't actually that good. Only the middle portion lives up to the hype.
I don't think Wizard is a masterpiece but it is at least 6/10 or 7/10, it just doesn't take risks and the plot is predictable. W is kind of boring until Accel and completely drops the ball in the last portion. Also don't like the W suits apart from Fang and Joker, if you count it.

People that hate Wizard overexaggerate it. Honestly same for Ghost even if I also don't care for it, most of Reiwa has been worse, as was Decade and the stuff like the last third of Hibiki. Also even though I like Kiva to an extent, it is worse than Wizard at least because there are some parts and characters that are bad, while in Wizard it stays pretty consistent regarding quality.

>>23490180
This is not your personal blog, fag.

>>23490180
I feel ya. For me, the problem with W is Akiko, I fucking hate her guts. Damn Sakamoto for making her the figurehead of Girls Remix. I haven't watched the Futo Tantei anime so I'm curious to see if the recast helps matters.

Come to think of it, one reason why I love Gavv is that Sachika is basically the Anti-Akiko, an Akiko done right.

>>23490180
I don't know man I tried watching Wizard again thinking I might have been too harsh on it because I watched it live yet I hated it just as much as I did back then. It's really dependent on how much you like Wizard's comedy, the show is really funny but it never was enough for me to make up for the horrible motw, the Phantom are simply the second worst motw I've seen in any toku, only being beaten by JAKQ's Crime. But I did turn around Ghost on a re-watch weirdly enough and did like Hibiki, Kiva and Decade on my first watch. It really goes to show how different the opinions for each season can be given how unique each Kamen Rider show is.