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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWUhnHydpWs&list=OLAK5uy_kuIRrSRYJUHm5LoIUX8--QjpZvxpVhOZo&index=1

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now playing, in honor of the edition

start of Liszt: A Faust Symphony, S. 108 (Solti/Chicago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnMkgl-xXDo&list=OLAK5uy_lYk44TfcikvWpkmU1LTOuOdLz-OSKKxMc&index=2

Liszt: Les préludes, Symphonic Poem No. 3, S. 97 (Solti/Chicago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL3Jmp7Xg3g&list=OLAK5uy_lYk44TfcikvWpkmU1LTOuOdLz-OSKKxMc&index=5

Liszt: Prometheus, symphonic poem No. 5, S.99 (Solti/Chicago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_xrgNfrB9c&list=OLAK5uy_lYk44TfcikvWpkmU1LTOuOdLz-OSKKxMc&index=6

start of Liszt: A Dante Symphony, S.109 (Jesus Lopez-Cobos/Romande)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuP25GVfsQc&list=OLAK5uy_lYk44TfcikvWpkmU1LTOuOdLz-OSKKxMc&index=7

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lYk44TfcikvWpkmU1LTOuOdLz-OSKKxMc

You would think this general would get busier on the weekends but it's the opposite. Is this one of the few 4chan generals where the users actually have things to do on the weekend?

>>127728302
Most generals are like this on weekends from what I've noticed. Especially during these hours.

>>127728515
People too busy discussing literature and drinking coffee in your European cafes at this time?

>>127727698
Liszt is an extremely underrated composer. I'm tired of people just saying he writes virtuoso firework pieces.

>>127728644
Indeed. There is greater emotional and spiritual depth in Liszt's Annees de pelerinage and Harmonies poétiques et religieuses than in the entire oeuvre of most other composers, and certainly equal to if not more than any other piano work.

Man, I simply do not like Isabelle Faust's violin playing, especially her tone. Is it just me? For example, her cycle of Beethoven's violin sonatas with the excellent pianist Alexander Melnikov, whom I'm a huge fan of, is highly acclaimed, with some ranking it among the best ever recorded, so I've given it multiple tries and I want to like it, I want it to click for me, but it leaves me entirely cold, especially compared to my personal favorites for these works.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ephy5VOhBIc&list=OLAK5uy_lSf7yFXPx-SqasWcffj8ZqWMQYvoPLCuk&index=16

versus one of my favorites, Perlman/Ashkenazy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMjmwLWo22s&list=OLAK5uy_mHn4lYCUy8GZwIhMgSbDDXMcYQcNDtykE&index=25

There just isn't enough weight and overt passion in the first one, it isn't right for Beethoven. Not enough gravitas.

>>127728644
so true virtusoslopper

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now playing

link to four pieces of the eleven

Chopin: Mazurka No. 36 in A Minor, Op. 59 No. 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_vXoHjM4ps&list=OLAK5uy_lwAqEpugrEYU5HKSv63LS1dVWcV8u9UbM&index=2

Chopin: Mazurka No. 38 in F-Sharp Minor, Op. 59 No. 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2fX3l2jQxQ&list=OLAK5uy_lwAqEpugrEYU5HKSv63LS1dVWcV8u9UbM&index=3

Chopin: Ballade No. 4 in F Minor, Op. 52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqeXhIzEjVM&list=OLAK5uy_lwAqEpugrEYU5HKSv63LS1dVWcV8u9UbM&index=9

Chopin: Polonaise in F-Sharp Minor, Op. 44
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sV9fkH0qrWg&list=OLAK5uy_lwAqEpugrEYU5HKSv63LS1dVWcV8u9UbM&index=10

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lwAqEpugrEYU5HKSv63LS1dVWcV8u9UbM

I was gonna listen to a recording consisting of all of Chopin's Polonaises, but then I came across this one, and I've always enjoyed whatever music I've heard performed by Piotr Anderszewski in the past.

Why are concertos so much less developmental in the classical period than symphonies? Even in the romantic period they tend to restate themes more than they actually develop them, one of the reasons i enjoy them less than symphonies

>>127729157
>classical period

so we're basically just talking mozart and beethoven? or are you thinking of others?

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>>127727698
how come he has so many warts on his face? and, continuing from the previous thread, should working men be allowed the liberty of publishing works of art, despite being as ugly as liszt whose appearance offends the senses and, in so doing, is in active opposition of those works of art?

I spent 2 years attending violin lessons with a meh teacher. Now Ive been trying to get back into it because I feel like I invested too much time and nerves but I still sound meh.

Just listened to Les Préludes and A Dante Symphony for the first time. They're great orchestral works. Now I want to listen to more extreme difficult piano pieces like Gnomenreigen, any recs?

>>127729324
Chopin's concertos also have a lot of restatements

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>>127729157
>>127729324
>>127730221
>In the first chapter, ‘The Concept of Form’, it was stated that a piece of music consists of a number of parts. They differ more or less in content, character and mood; in tonality, size and structure. These differences permit presentation of an idea from various viewpoints, producing those contrasts on which variety is based. Variety must never endanger comprehensibility or logic. Comprehensibility requires limitation of variety, especially if notes, harmonies, motive-forms or contrasts follow each other in rapid succession. Rapidity obstructs one’s grasp of an idea. Thus pieces in rapid tempo exhibit a lesser degree of variety. There are means by which the tendency toward too rapid development, which is often the consequence of disproportionate variety, can be controlled. Delimitation, subdivision and simple repetition are the most useful. Intelligibility in music seems to be impossible without repetition. While repetition without variation can easily produce monotony, juxtaposition of distantly related elements can easily degenerate into nonsense, especially if unifying elements are omitted. Only so much variation as character, length and tempo required should be admitted: the coherence of motive-forms should be emphasized. Discretion is especially necessary when the goal is an immediate intelligibility, as in popular music. However, such discretion is not restricted to popular music alone. On the contrary, it is most characteristic of the manner in which the classical masters constructed their forms.
There can be no coherence without repetition. I can't agree with the notion that concertos are more repetitive than symphonies, but if that's true, then it must be necessary, due to larger varieties in timbre between soloist and orchestra (which sounds morr unified, without the piano)
(1/?)

>>127730286
Concerning complex harmonies in terms of form:
>The rapid development of harmony since the beginning of the nineteenth century has been the great obstacle to the acceptance of every new composer from Schubert on, Frequent deviation from the tonic region into more or less foreign regions seemed to obstruct unity and intelligibility. However, the most advanced mind is still subject to human limitations. Thus composers of this style, instinctively feeling the danger of incoherence, counteracted the tension in one plane (the complex ha another plane (the motival and rhythmic construction), This perhaps also explains the unvaried repeti and frequent sequences of Wagner, Bruckner, Debussy, César Franck, Tchaikovsky, Sibelius and many others To the contemporaries of Gustav Mahler, Max Reger, Richard Strauss, Maurice Ravel, etc., farreaching harmony no longer seriously endangered comprehensibility
(2/?)

>>127730043
I assume you've already checked out Liszt's Transcendental Etudes and Hungarian Rhapsodies?

idk how i keep tricking myself into giving Haitink's Bruckner another try, zzzzzzz

I'm about a year into learning piano and I read that you should always look at the sheet music while playing, but by the time I've got a piece decently down I've pretty much memorized it and find it easier to just play by feeling it, letting muscle memory take over and looking at my hands occasionally to know where I am. Is this a bad habit?

>>127730930
the instructors who inform others to always look at sheet music are only doing so out of habit to reinforce their dutiful acquiescence and inability to imagine

>>127730744
>Transcendental Etudes

No. Will listen to them. Thanks.

>Hungarian Rhapsodies

Just some of them. Will listen to them too, interpreted by Cziffra.

How do I learn how to read music, scales, rythm, etc, etc? I need a book or video series that will teach me the most important things from the very beginning. Someone once recommended me a book called The Complete Musician but that's not for beginners from what I could see.

>>127731390
If you want to learn to compose (best way to learn IMO, and it's just small phrases) Goetschius' Theory and Practice of Tone-Relations is a good start. It will teach you everything from scales and rhythms, to phrases and modulations. It might even help you appreciate music more deeply. Beginner friendly, comprehensive and fun. Even though there might be better literature out there, I'm familiar with this one the most so I recommend. Tchaikovsky, among many others also have similar books, just use search engine after all.

>>127731390
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgaTLrZGlk0

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Grieg

Nocturne
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR9a46ebfeo
Melody
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7-qesEt4AM
Lonely Wanderer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCk0S1fJl3g
To the Spring
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HtNHadwioY
Summer's Eve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfxMJ1i2LPw

For me, it's Hungaria.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28id84fdcS4

Sometimes the main theme of Rach's 1st concerto (1st mov) gets stuck in my head for days. It's such a perfect theme: ascending melody with extremely lush accompaniment, the intensifying consequent phrase descending, and imitative counterpoint once piano restates the theme. The theme is best interpreted by this recording, few recordings do the "slide"(?) thing in strings right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeb92Nt-6VY
For example in Ashkenazy/Previn the slide is barely audible, it's just not there:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8379QaZFWCo
And Rachmaninoff's own recording has it. It's an important detail and part of the reason it's such an earworm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0iVaxKsboE

One of the best themes ever written.

>>127727698
And his piano concertos? Are they any good?

If you could bring one composer back to life and have them listen to any modern piece of music or song and see their reaction/give their thoughts, who would you pick and what would you have them listen to?

>>127732668
i wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't even if the power was vested in me for the following reasons: 1) bringing people back to life is against my religion, and modern music is not healthy; 2) bringing people back to life is not something within my powers; and, 3) please refer back to the response in number 1.

>>127732668
Beethoven on Hot Rats.

>>127732668
I'm not sure what you mean by modern music, but there are several composers whose reaction to succeeding composers would be interesting. I'd have Mozart listen to Rachmaninoff's 2nd concerto, on modern grand piano.

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>Recording of baroque music includes a harpsichord when the score does not specify one

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>5 Versions of Passacaglia and Fugue
>orchestral version is the best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpfJD_uMMFg&list=OLAK5uy_nayNf_DTjr0e9EdlFZ2ElVrRvyR27Vlfg&index=5

Organ is just bad, especially for contrapuntal music. Listen how clean orchestra sounds in comparison, no muddiness in inner voices, every melodic line is perfectly audible, larger dynamics, more color... Why would you ever listen to organ version at all

>>127730861
Haitink is the king of boredom. I keep giving him chances because his tempos are similar to what I would like when I check the timings, but then I listen to it and it's always lifeless

>>127733360
this! so much this!
*starts sucking off my boyfriend Brandon*

>>127733387
That's right. Sex havers listen to orchestral arrangements

Bach BWV 582 Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor versions ranked from best to worst:
>orchestral
>piano 4 hands
>piano
>organ
>romantic organ (why tf was it so slow?)

Bach would agree.

>>127733360
>Pasa la calle
basado

>>127733280
>recording of baroque includes a heckin piano instead of harpsichord

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Schulhoff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOZGkkJMHqU&list=OLAK5uy_m7q5EYQKDLNtnsbKMb7qxSddbTZk8h5hw&index=4

>>127733280
The harpsichord is always relevant

>>127730930
>The map is not the territory
Once you’ve read enough music, you can start to “chunk” reading together and it becomes more a crutch.

Try playing without any sheet music and see how far you get.

Sightreading develops this ability on steroids. See how much you can read and retain after a few glances. For example, if I’m reading a piece, I look at the key and my hands automatically have shapes at the ready and already anticipate jumps and repetitions, eventually being able to “hear” the piece is an abstract sense before I even touch a key.

What you’ll soon discover is that your hands will form patterns and you can use touch (ie. Black keys 2 vs 3 means you’re in that particular octave+ reach) to guide your hands while looking at “obstacles” in the music. If I see a jump or a key change, I’m already thinking of moving my hand and start swapping fingers, readjusting my posture, etc.

I’ve sightread on piano, trombone, guitar, etc and they all have this commonality. I’d argue that trombone is more difficult than piano for this reason, especially if you factor in breathing and phrasing.

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Reminder Bach and after, before and not including Ives.

>Liszt
This is the best piece of music I have ever listened to. Every listen I'm sat there trying to figure out what makes it so enticing to me, when it's really not all that revered.
https://youtu.be/ANUAtij5D-g

>>127734200
It's pretty great. You prefer the orchestral version over piano?

>>127727698
what is objectively the worst period of classical music, and why is it the classical period? it's just sterile, lacking the style of baroque or substance of romantic
>but muh beethoven
not classical

>>127732245
>"slide"(?)
Portamento. It was commonly utilized in the 19th and early 20th century amongst orchestras, soloists, and chamber ensembles. It was a very personal thing - something that required a great deal of coordination and intimacy with the ensemble, which is one of the reasons that it fell out of favor as orchestras became more and more globalized. That, and the critics of the 20th century started to rag on it and deemed it too cheesy. Which is a real shame because some composers, like Mahler, explicitly wrote with it in mind. Composers like Mahler and Rachmaninoff would write it into their scores, which is why, even though it's out of favor these days, some conductors still do it since it's explicitly written. That being said, most of the time it just sounds like glissando instead of portamento, like in the second example. Very few conductors/orchestras know or want to do a genuine portamento slide these days.

A good example is Mahler's 5th symphony, the famous Adagietto. Just listen to Mengelberg's historical recording and hear how much more romanticism he gets out of the strings with the Concertgebouw's perfect portamento technique.
https://litter.catbox.moe/u3wbpt8cupki8x2l.mp3
The portamento gives it a surging quality that really nails the love song element that this movement is supposed to be.

Here's Barshai - but really, any recording of the Adagietto will do. None of them play it like Mengelberg.
https://litter.catbox.moe/lgn76vqtsapg0kbg.mp3
It still sounds quite good, but it loses the unique character that Mengelberg had. Mahler himsefl said that portamento was extremely important to his works which was relayed by New York Philharmonic players that had played under him while he was alive. It's really a pity that modern orchestras are so sheepish about it.

By the way, Mengelberg has a great accompaniment of the 2nd and 3rd Rachmaninoff concerti with Gieseking. They're really good.

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Mozart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMum6HgXVKk

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now playing

start of Mozart: Symphony No. 25 in G Minor, K. 183
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8vAgppyKLQ&list=OLAK5uy_nxQTct7Hhga3pqpEblApWpB0uI0SnGM20&index=2

start of Mozart: Serenata notturna in D Major, K. 239
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nk-Gaq3v8mU&list=OLAK5uy_nxQTct7Hhga3pqpEblApWpB0uI0SnGM20&index=6

start of Mozart: Symphony No. 29 in A Major, K. 201
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2pOatK4POA&list=OLAK5uy_nxQTct7Hhga3pqpEblApWpB0uI0SnGM20&index=9

start of Mozart: Symphony No. 40 in G Minor, K. 550
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMEFp_TRlXI&list=OLAK5uy_nxQTct7Hhga3pqpEblApWpB0uI0SnGM20&index=13

start of Mozart: Symphony No. 38 in D Major, K. 504 "Prague"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puKqLtch4Vg&list=OLAK5uy_nxQTct7Hhga3pqpEblApWpB0uI0SnGM20&index=16

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nxQTct7Hhga3pqpEblApWpB0uI0SnGM20

>Britten's recordings of Mozart are among the treasures of the catalog, rare examples of an almost mystical bond between one composer-performer and another. These exquisitely beautiful accounts of four of Mozart's most remarkable symphonies date from the years 1968 to 1971 and were recorded in the cooperative acoustic of the Maltings, Snape. The playing of the ECO is wonderfully robust and animated, impeccably polished, and alive to every expressive nuance in this extraordinary music. With superb sound, the 1995 mid-price reissue belongs on the shelf of every Mozart lover. --Ted Libbey

brahms

What are you slant-eyed gooks doing to that poor animal?

>>127730286
schoenberg was an atonal schizo, you're taking him too seriously

>>127735205
Yes that's the technique, thank you anon.
This seems to be yet another proof of decline in performances. Older recordings always seem to have it, and newer recordings don't. Did it go out of fashion or did we become less sensitive? I could understanding if it was toned down a little (doesn't sound cheesy to me but whatever) however it's disappearing entirely. What a shame.
>Mengelberg's historical recording
Beautiful. So good. I don't think I'll listen to any other Mahler 5 recording for a while now.
What I find ironic, is that performers often go out of their way to play "as the composer intended", yet they ignore important details.
>Mengelberg has a great accompaniment of the 2nd and 3rd Rachmaninoff concerti with Gieseking
Definitely checking that out.

>>127737628
>The controversial aspect of portamento may be due to the fact that, at an indiscriminate level of employment, it proves faulty technique, not expressive playing. (Imagine a singer gliding annoyingly from one pitch to the next. It is the first mannerism a parody of poor opera singing would employ.) At its best, sliding in strings playing isn’t a technical necessity but the aural projection of an aesthetic intention to tame down the fragmented extemporization of a melody.
Is one of the arguments I've heard for why it fell out of fashion. But the skillful use of portamento is also something that really requires a strong relationship between the conductor and orchestra; something which isn't really a thing like it used to be. Even principal conductors constantly cheat on their main orchestras and spend most of their time away from them while a hundred different guest conductors have their way with them. The sound needed to be standardized for it to become flexible, sadly. It's the same reason all of the major orchestras more or less sound the same in terms of timbral nuances, which was not the case even 30-40 years ago.

Here's Hermann Scherchen talking about it in the 1930s:
>By and large portamento does seem a lost art among orchestra players. I think all the professional orchestras I’ve played in have attempted portamento in Mahler’s Adagietto, but it looks to string players like a “glissando,” and unless the conductor works, as Mengelberg did, on the timing – specifying it and rehearsing it – the section smears rather at random.

>>127734975
Mozart and Haydn are legendary, you need to get better taste.

>>127737868
I'm not convinced by the argument. Singing has its own limitations, and they shouldn't be translated to instrumental music. And the melodies (Rach 1 Mahler 5) don't sound fragmented, I'm not sure what is meant by "fragmented extemporization of a melody", and they sound better with portamento to me.
>the skillful use of portamento is also something that really requires a strong relationship between the conductor and orchestra
This sounds more like the actual reason it fell "out of fashion". Likewise, rubato seems to have gone out of fashion. Not just among orchestras and conductors, but pianists, which is harder to justify as pianists don't always have to work with other musicians. The skill required to both apply and appreciate it, or sensitivity to details has declined among listeners, performers and critics all at once. Probably in part due to laziness, because classical music isn't valued as much either.

For me it's the
1 viola da gamba
2 cello
3 harpsichord
4 organ

And nothang else

>>127737030
Based

In order of importance, expressiveness and quality, goes like this:

1. orchestra
2. piano
3. violin
4. cello
5. the rest

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWRp39-JAvg

>>127739490
Awful.

Mephisto's Waltzes > Hungarian Rhapsodies > Transcedental Etudes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4CUp_4hhsg
how is this meant to be any good? how full of yourself do you have to be to compare this to beethoven or mozart. we're just doing anything for stimulation now like these screeching noises but still thinking we're better than zoomers

>>127739554
Not inaccurate but Annees de pelerinage, Harmonies poétiques et religieuses, and Sonata in B minor >>>

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Why don't conductors ever take a solo? There are violin soloists, piano soloists, cello soloists, mandolin, harp, guitar, clarinet, oboe, and then there are the various singers.

So why doesn't the conductor ever get to wave the baton without all the damned instruments playing along?

>>127740157
Why even compare? What are you even talking about, schizo

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>>127740676

>>127740649
Besides the sonata, are these difficult pieces to be played?

>>127739247
Cello should be above violin desu the "cello is close to human voice" notion is not a meme. Maybe above piano even

Ive been learning cello for 1 month and now when i sing in my pew at the church i realize how similar to cello my intonation is and i can feel my vocal chords vibrate the same way. Quite wholesome

>>127740676
kek

>>127740756
Not on the same level as the others, no. They're not so much Liszt the virtuoso or piano technician but the musical poet and spiritual mystic.

>>127739247
I would put horn before the rest

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now playing, the late piano sonatas of Goode's Beethoven cycle

start of Beethoven: No. 28 in A Major, Opus 101
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3QMSNaq484&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=88

start of Beethoven: No. 29 in B-Flat Major, Opus 106 (Hammerklavier)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW62zW9-lio&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=91

start of Beethoven: No. 30 in E Major, Opus 109
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z97Qwtak9Yc&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=95

start of Beethoven: No. 31 in A-Flat Major, Opus 110
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI2fru-m0gk&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=98

start of Beethoven: No. 32 in C Minor, Opus 111
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eopNqfNWJ0&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=100

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U

>It's interesting that the great Beethoven sonata cycles areseldom the ones by the big-name virtuosos. Horowitz never attempted one. Neither did Rubinstein. Ashkenazy recorded them all, but with only partial success. Richter never managed all 32 works at one time, and Gilels died before completing his cycle. The most successful complete recordings--Schnabel, Kempff, Arrau, and Backhaus--are all by pianists with a solidly intellectual mindset, however powerful their technique. Goode joins this select company, turning in performances of uncompromising integrity and musical strength. Of course, his reputation as a musician's musician precedes him: here is a player sensitive to Beethoven's every nuance, presenting the composers thoughts with exemplary clarity and taste. This is the Beethoven cycle for the '90s. --David Hurwitz

>>127741162
this guy really likes to slow down, doesn't he?

>>127741347
Whatever works.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3J9XwOH_Gcg&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=92

sublime!

>>127741162
>>127741463
one more movement I really have to share
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dovfis3nmDQ&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=96

!!!!!

highly recommended

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It's raining outside. That means it's a day for Bach's Cello Suites (and probably Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin) and Sibelius' symphonies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5wMyvLZM9A&list=OLAK5uy_m1g2HAfPpniWQR8EzDDJZcflTE0jtiOp4&index=19

What other classical do you like for grey, rainy days?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTlDgaxnFqg

How does Roussel make me feel?

>>127741569
>What other classical do you like for grey, rainy days?
Fauré

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Again I tried asking a fucking question on r/Violinist and again they deleted my fucking thread 2 minutes after it was created because apparently the fucking FAQ already answered it. NO IT FUCKING DIDN'T YOU FUCKING MORONS!! Meanwhile people post retarded shit there like "hurr I wanna eat my rosin" or "durr look at me playing happy birthday" and those posts aren't deleted but instead they get hundreds of likes. What a pathetic fucking site, holy shit…

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>when its time for the daily reminder

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>Today I will remind them

BAB
A
B

>DAILY REMINDER
>DAILY REMINDER

IAA
A
A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWOIKCtjiw&list=RDKyWOIKCtjiw&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLugJIWdpCM&list=RDtLugJIWdpCM&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-utT-BD0obk&list=RD-utT-BD0obk&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxx7Stpx7bU&list=RDcxx7Stpx7bU&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCoOqsxLxSo&list=RDkCoOqsxLxSo&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgjwiadze1w&list=RDSgjwiadze1w&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ44z_ZqzXk&list=RDOQ44z_ZqzXk&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyBRbbHpno&list=RDpGyBRbbHpno&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]

>>127742233
What reminder, sir?

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>average BABIAA listener

We will disarm and subdue every 18th-19th century heretic that would put on a Mozart Piano concerto or Chopin Nocturne

We are the Mockers of Mozart
We put a chokehold on classicism

We are the Cuckolders of Chopin
We are the Rapists of Romantics

We are the murderers of Mahler
We strike fear in ever pretentious and Neurotic writer of 1 hour symphonies

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>Listening to Bach
>not listening to Mozart
>Listening to Marais
>Not listening to Haydn
>Listening to Ravel
>not listening to Mahler
>listening to Stravinsky
>not listening to Schoenberg or Shostakovich

Is there a better feeling in this world?

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>Your Romanticism
>My Foot
>Your Classicism
>My Fist

I will crush the Mozart enjoyers, and liberate the Chopin listeners with Vivaldi, Josquin, and Perotin

I actually want to kill myself. This is not cause of "woe is me" or "my life le sucks" or any other overly sentimental reddit emotion mind you. It is purely cause I am bored out of my mind. I just hate everything. Everyone is so inferior. It is like conversating with literal maggots. Why should I suffer these idiots? These little people and their meaningless lives. Always just trying to suck up to each other. I am sick and tired of this nonsense.

What is some /classical/ for this burdened and bored soul?

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>Bach
>Machaut
>Ives
>Marais
>Buxtehude
>Stravinsky
>Reich
>Bartok

No Mozart, No Brahms, No Haydn, No Mahler
No Autistic Teutonic spirit shall oppress or taint the Gallic, Latin, and Slavic soul

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Mozart gives me the ick,

As does Brahms, Mahler, Handel, early-middle Beethoven, Bruckner, Chopin, Schumann, Strauss II, Hindemith, Schoenberg, Reger, Berg, Tchaikovsky, Boulez, Stockhausen, Haydn, Bruch, Salieri, Shostakovich, Clementi, and Prokofiev

That is all

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>>127742310
please refer to my post>>127742258
It avoids all fedora and reddit emotions, Romanitslop and classsishits will not ruin this board any further

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>when they listen to Mozart and Haydn concertos and completely neglect the Sun Kings court
>When they listen to vocal works by Verdi, Rossini or Puccini, but not Palestrina or the Franco-Flemish School
>When they don't listen to Marin Marais more frequently than Beethoven or Brahms
>No Perotin or Medieval Music

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>If it ain't BAROQUE, don't fix it
>I dumped her because she BAROQUED my heart
>I had to go to the doctor because I BAROQUED my leg in a gondola accident
>I would go to the concerto with you, but I'm BAROQUE
>The Baroque BAROQUED the renaissance mold

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>braaaaaaaaaaaaaap

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>Up next is mozFart stinky dinky symphony no. 39 in E flatulence followed by Braaaaaap Concerto in P(ee) minor

Do Mozart fans really?

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>>127734170
>remember Bach and Before, Ives and After
Well said Friend, well said!

>>127742258
>>127742340
This..... this is it. This is music. That was excellent. I was expecting a two hour long mass, but it was actually a decent short piece. Very sophisticated and calm. I have nothing but admiration and respect for your noble crusade. Teach these miserable godless sissies some manners.

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>>127742404
Have a Rore madrigal friend
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A87M7xkmNBA&list=RDA87M7xkmNBA&start_radio=1
Its not too often someone else with taste comes visit this board

We should create /earlymusic/ for baroque and renaissance sisters, since we don't tolerate that low IQ shite here.

>>127742546
This is not a battle we can win, chud. Spread your pussy wide open so that Baroque chords can sound right through. Just listen to the music they are posting. It is out of the world. The music we post is utterly tasteless and fetid compared to the colorful sugar they have posted.

We must surrender while we still have some dignity left.

hello friends, this is dave hurwitz executive editor at classicstoday dot com

>>127742571
Baroque is low IQ garbage.

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>>127742661
who's the hottest music critic?

20-year-old conservatory student in Germany Huang Yi-Chung plays Liszt's Spanish Fantasy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79XmMnCS_S4

Thoughts?

>>127742661
no dave i don't want to listen to bernstein

>>127742310
>What is some /classical/ for this burdened and bored soul?
All of it. That's one of the primary purposes of art: life-affirmation.

https://youtu.be/uggchtxdvbA&t=12

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now playing

start of Chopin: Piano Sonata No. 3 in B Minor, Op. 58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FycPwRTBlrc&list=OLAK5uy_mI6k79OJ3IVc7VmmnUmRSoe0vJys81S_8&index=2

start of Chopin: Mazurkas (selected)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxbaETJieQ4&list=OLAK5uy_mI6k79OJ3IVc7VmmnUmRSoe0vJys81S_8&index=6

start of Chopin: Four Ballades
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcAlKVyLDLM&list=OLAK5uy_mI6k79OJ3IVc7VmmnUmRSoe0vJys81S_8&index=18

start of Chopin: Piano Sonata No. 2 in B-Flat Minor, Op. 35
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QURBhvQG3g&list=OLAK5uy_mI6k79OJ3IVc7VmmnUmRSoe0vJys81S_8&index=48

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mI6k79OJ3IVc7VmmnUmRSoe0vJys81S_8

Among other selected pieces. Can't ever go wrong with Evgeny Kissin.

>>127728644
I find his catalogue forbidding to get into, dude was like an out of control printer of scores. Any recs?

Goddamn, Koroliov plays Bach so beautifully with a strong foundation of spirituality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXtbFN--6cE&list=OLAK5uy_kMCWUX9bBqiBDJLMgb7Ls6Zfwc-uwBJNU&index=7

>>127743041
for orchestral:
Faust Symphony
Dante Symphony
Les Preludes

for piano:
Annees de pelerinage
Harmonies poétiques et religieuses
Transcendental Etudes
Hungarian Rhapsody
Sonata in B minor
assorted pieces like Consolations, Concert Etudes, Mephisto Waltz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOo0cr44Obg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzs90JsIk-E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O4h0AapdbQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qlzn6nQpmgE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeKMMDxrsBE

enjoy!

>>127743041
>>127743193
oh, and he has two piano concertos too. this post has links to great recordings of the orchestral pieces I named: >>127728292

Bernstein is the greatest conductor who ever LIVED

>>127743363
Bernstein and his generation was the beginnig of degeneration of classical music

My attention listening to Beethoven's 5th:
>1st movement
10/10
>2nd movement
4/10
>3rd movement
2/10
>4th movement
3/10

Is this what we call "one hit wonder"

>>127742546
Totally
Not sentimental neuroticism of romantics. Just beauty

Only baroque is true music as it was intended
Classical is pop music
Romantic is emo music

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Today I will remind them

[Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
[Embed] [Embed] [Embed] Embed] [Embed] [Embed] Embed] [Embed] [Embed]

how is true music defined?

>>127743749
As baroque

>>127743749
if the creator/composer has light skin, it's real music.

best Scriabin interpreter?

>>127743685
>>127743731
Okay then what are you doing here, this is /classical/

Where do you go to find something that you know exists digitally but can't find in any of the normal places?

The Moscow Radio Symphony Orchestra conduced by Rozhdestvensky did hands down the best version of the Swan Lake suite I have ever heard but I can't find the fucking thing ANYWHERE. I know it exists because there are photos of it on discogs and I know that it exists digitally because it was on youtube (assuming that the description was correct but given that the video had the correct album cover I think it was) but finding it digitally has been outlandishly difficult.

>>127743842
I'll make a baroque general later. Maybe tomorrow we'll see

>>127743861
Good riddance.

>>127743888
We will need your activity.

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>>127743914
I'll be busy listening to better music.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpMeDkFg8gc&list=OLAK5uy_mTIz-SdG5y4loS_dT5Cj0cVmL-lby1w5g&index=6

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>>127743963
>posts romantic music
>video is unavailable
Like pottery

>>127744272
Where are you from, Africa?

>>127743963
Lounge music

>>127744310
Worse, America

>>127744396
Explains your behavior.

>>127743845
there exists in the pithole of hell a mastering of that particular performance the problem however is that by engaging with this particular performance your ears will scream your mind will ache and your heart without punctuation will stop beating the group i refer to is alexander bak who refuses to use proper source material because poor what impertinence

>>127743193
>>127743203
thanks

>>127743552
Huh, I've always found the first movement the least interesting. Mostly because it's so well-known and utilized it comes across as borderline kitsch, and then once I get to the rest, I'm always like, "damn, this is better than I thought."

>>127746117
The second movement makes me feel greatly.

>>127746136
Yes :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxIYbTowHQc&list=OLAK5uy_nrT--QMUo89bo4ulzXHSkzkrkj_KDVBRk&index=2

What do you guys think of Talk Classical? Is it better or worse than reddit?

>>127746176
Very boomer taste but that aside, I'm sure it's good.

>>127746167
There's this conducted by Karajan. I think it's better
https://youtu.be/7eOaIiHB58U?si=DFlxGuL47vmsfhS_&t=431

>>127746214
I just posted from the cycle I've been listening to the most recently. Karajan's Beethoven, of course, reigns supreme.

Don't sleep on Bernstein/Vienna though if you go for the majestic, luxurious sound,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEzANqD-x8o&list=OLAK5uy_n-jO5APIL_q9quwfY7tAEEkDnD4KI0MPA&index=18

>>127746229
Great sound on this, very polished.

>>127746167
>rattle
FUCKING DIE

>>127740688
classicaltards are smug fedora about classical music being more sophisticated than modern mainstream music, and include less famous composers like mahler, schoenberg and schubert as being top-tier, but their music isn't actually all that impressive if you have any normal musical ability to hear what the music actually sounds like without getting swept up by the pretentiousness

>>127746801
I just like mixing it up.

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now playing

start of Sibelius: Symphony No. 1 in E Minor, Op. 39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYMEsrcaIcA&list=OLAK5uy_mKPFSgABjGBtWQ6ZgtLbdF_71AIthG4W0&index=2

start of Sibelius: Symphony No. 2 in D Major, Op. 43
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=neuY7uHS7j0&list=OLAK5uy_mKPFSgABjGBtWQ6ZgtLbdF_71AIthG4W0&index=6

start of Sibelius: Symphony No. 3, Op. 52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vi1TzFtKaiU&list=OLAK5uy_mKPFSgABjGBtWQ6ZgtLbdF_71AIthG4W0&index=9

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mKPFSgABjGBtWQ6ZgtLbdF_71AIthG4W0

>The Cunny Little Vixen

>>127743774
Zhukov
Hamelin isn't bad either

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>piano concertos

>>127747198
I refuse to believe any living pianist is the greatest performer of a piece of clasical music.

>>127747397
then you'll be missing out on Garrick Ohlsson

>>127747437
Never heard of him.

>>127747397
Why? It seems logical. No different than how the best athletes and chess players are the ones living today.

>>127747553
The best athletes and chess players can be found today because it depends on quantitative measurement. But art and artistic execution is more a qualitative matter. It needs a living and refined artistic culture, which we lack. You can't just how arbitrary measurements for performers to reach to test their skills.

>>127747397
It depends on the piece. For Scriabin, Hamelin isn't really my cup of tea. He's got great technique for sure, but his sonorous tone and the pillow engineering makes the music sound way too soft

>>127748004
For artists and composers, I wholeheartedly agree. When we get to the performers however, where technique plays a larger role, then I think the answer becomes murkier, as in, there's no doubting that musicians today are technically the best they've ever been. Of course, there's some percentage of the practice which is an art, so the question is are today's musicians so utterly deficient in that area that they remain indubitably inferior to those of previous generations, that it overcomes any and all advancements in technique and benefits of hindsight? Maybe, but I'm not so sure, and certainly wouldn't agree with an outright denouncement of contemporary musicians.

>>127748210
>there's no doubting that musicians today are technically the best they've ever been
I'm not really convinced by that idea either. Are they better than Franz Liszt? Josef Hofmann?

>>127748240
In the same way Magnus Carlsen is better than Alexander Alekhine and Mikhail Tal and Paul Morphy.

>>127748210
>there's no doubting that musicians today are technically the best they've ever been.
on the whole? maybe. but technical perfection is really only half of the equation, pianism is probably at its most boring in the 21st century as far as interpretation is concerned.

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RATTLE > KARAJAN
CHAILLY > BERNSTEIN
NELSONS > SOLTI
BARENBOIM > KLEMPERER
WEILERSTEIN > FOURNIER
YUJA WANG > ANNIE FISCHER
KAVAKOS > OISTRAKH
LEVIT > SVIAT RICHTER

MUSICIANS OF TODAY REIGN SUPREME

>>127748442
>CHAILLY > BERNSTEIN
well that one is true at least

>>127746897
>classical music being more sophisticated than modern mainstream music
It literally is.
>less famous composers like mahler, schoenberg and schubert as being top-tier
They literally are.
>but their music isn't actually all that impressive
It literally is.
Get back over to >>>/mu/ butthurt tourist

>>127746117
The first movement is the most intense, it's in minor key, it's fast, based on 2 motifs which have some of the most interesting development, even in the exposition alone. The rest of the symphony is Mozart-tier "Are you happy yet?" thingy, boring development, boring themes, too major key. Meh.

>>127748442
>muh technical skill
No soul. Old is always better.

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There is not enough mention of the "Great Lord" Bruckner in this thread, This is now a Bruckner discussion only zone.


We know every other composer except Beethoven cannot hope to compete with Bruckner, so lets just drop our copes and admit he is the greatest. Please folks, accept truth and reality and just say it, say it with me.

"Bruckner is the Greatest"


B R U C K N E R
R
U
C
K
N
E
R

Bruckner.

Bruckner.

B.

>>127749424
Shitposting like this makes sense with Wagner, but Bruckner's music is actually that good so it's nonsensical to prop it up like this.

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>>127749454
You mean Bruckner is not nearly good enough for such praise, which only W. deserves
>Bruckner sank upon his knees, pressing Wagner’s hand to his lips, and murmuring: “Oh, Master, I worship you!” Wagner was deeply moved. When they bade each other good night that evening, it was the last greeting they ever exchanged on earth; for the call of Walhalla for the “Master of all Masters,” as Bruckner called him, was soon to sound.

>>127749475
Wagner would have been good if he finished his second symphony.

>>127749454
>wagner's music
>not as good as bruckner's
Nonsensical statement.

>>127749486
Oh I guess it, you're an anti-opera pleb.

>>127749638
Opera has always been the pleb choice for people who need narrative to understand art and cannot enjoy it in it's abstract form. Pretending that it's the "pleb" thing to dislike it just because it's less popular today is hilarious.

>>127749786
You're implying that opera is only admired because it supplies an extramusical crutch for understanding the music, which goes to show how little you understand music, and how unfamiliar you are with operatic music, because it is painfully obvious that some of the greatest achievements in classical music have been in the form of opera. Your motivation is clearly, on the one hand, the usual justifying of an inability to enjoy opera (because of the pop music you were conditioned by as a child), as well as the fear of being seen as a pleb. A fear only known among plebs. The fact is that you need to learn to enjoy both the music on its own and the music as it relates to theatre, otherwise you're just a fraud pretending to cultured. Shakespeare was enjoyed by plebs and aristocrats alike in his day, great genius is not necessarily antithetical to entertainment.

>>127739018
Based

>>127749786
Concertos only developed as a substitute for voices. Operas included broad artistry from poetry, music (instrumental and singing), scenery and acting. It is by definition a more complete art form

The cost of them with elaborate technology for the time was so huge it would be unthinkable today. There were literally flying actors with rope systems etc. It was cheaper to transition to concertos

And ofc in its origin opera was played for royalty and not the plebs, but this is just the historical aspect

>>127750035
then you could argue for movies, especially musically themed movies like the oscar-winning emilia perez. cinephiles take the art very seriously and analyze movies as if they're living vicariously through the director.

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let's start the day with Lisitsa's Rachmaninoff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQkjRZC0xQw&list=OLAK5uy_m7erdLAaZlODCjGXIY57fcLqZRqmSKSd0&index=1

>Ukranian-born pianist Valentina Lisitsa became a YouTube sensation a few years ago by uploading her entire self-produced album of Chopin Études onto the site. It was not long after she mortgaged her home to hire the London Symphony Orchestra for this Rachmaninov project that Decca took notice of her, and signed her to a multi-album contract.

>>127732245
What I love about the first is it's easier listening than the others. By this I mean I can play it at any time and enjoy it. The others I have to be in the mood for, especially because they're such intense experiences and dense compositions. Which is what makes listening to full cycles so easy and nice, because the first allows for the perfect introduction and acclimation to the mood and soundscape of Rachmaninoff's piano concertos.

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Why are the commonly performed excerpts from Wagner almost always instrumental?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1_bLnyLWRo

It's not like you couldn't hire a singer to play a vocal excerpt, concerts have been doing that for centuries. Yet besides Liebestod I rarely hear a vocal excerpt in a concert listing.

>>127750392
For the same reason mixed program singer albums don't contain any orchestral excerpts.

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>>127749979
Your post boils down to
>You dislike it because you're a pleb and I will not elaborate further
Further proof that opera plebs cannot articulate why they enjoy it.
>>127750035
And all this technology still leads to a unflattering view for those truly connected to the arts. I will leave you with a quote by Tchaikovsky

> I will now give you an example which shows to what extent the symphonist prevails over the vocal and, actually, the operatic composer. You will have undoubtedly heard his famous "Wallkührenritt" (Ride Of The Valkyries)? What a grandiose and marvellous scene! So just picture for yourself these wild giants flying with thunder-clap through the clouds on their magical steeds. In the concert-hall this piece always makes a powerful impression. But in the theatre, with its cardboard cliffs and clouds of cloth, and then the soldiers galloping awkwardly across the back of the stage and finally with its paltry little theatrical sky attempting to recreate for us the vast reaches beyond the clouds, the music loses its scenic quality. Consequently, the theatre does not intensify one's impressions here but acts like a glass of cold water.

When you desperately try to make an image out of the music, the music loses it's grand effect. The mind is a superior visualizer to any possible stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRqark6iuDI

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lol

>>127750423
Correct.
>>127750447
KEK

I'd bet vast majority of opera enjoyers do not have internal monologue

Random thought: I always feel like there should be more violin sonatas. It's such a fundamental, straightforward, and primary form that you would think every major and minor composer ought to have at least two or three, y'know?

>>127750483
Opera requires a higher iq to understand, though

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now playing

start of JS Bach: Cello Suite No. 1 in G Major, BWV 1007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an9Ci_Usny0&list=OLAK5uy_lDRnmWF-BNunZvW4VNIiIMFcxQWCOY6FY&index=2

start of JS Bach: Cello Suite No. 2 in D Minor, BWV 1008
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya1yrdlcwxg&list=OLAK5uy_lDRnmWF-BNunZvW4VNIiIMFcxQWCOY6FY&index=8

start of JS Bach: Cello Suite No. 3 in C Major, BWV 1009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haoTEoLHRjc&list=OLAK5uy_lDRnmWF-BNunZvW4VNIiIMFcxQWCOY6FY&index=13

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lDRnmWF-BNunZvW4VNIiIMFcxQWCOY6FY

>EMI's bargain reissue of Schiff's Bach joins the handful of preferred recordings of the Suites. Schiff's big-toned, dynamic style of playing was heard in some outstanding concerto recordings and he modifies it for Bach, lightening the tone for the swinging dance movements, broadening for soulful slow movements, narrowing dynamics to preserve stylistic correctness. He's always idiomatic, playing within the constraints of Baroque style, but bringing each piece to life with a dazzling variety of color and dynamics. This is imaginative playing of the sort rarely heard from either old-fashioned Romanticists or from cramped "authentic instrument" types. There are plenty of fine versions of these great works, from Pablo Casals's pioneering recordings of the 1930s to more recent ones such as János Starker's, but Schiff's joins them among the select few. --Dan Davis

Most sets of these Cello Suites are what I would classify as ideal for evening listening, when you're looking to slow down. This set is one of the few of the romantic tradition which is great for listening earlier in the day, for providing one with a jaunty and inspired spirit.

warning: a borderline offensively fast tempo for the Prelude in BWV 1007/Suite No. 1

>>127750494
and most of them do, so what's your point?

>>127750658
Elgar only has one. Strauss only has one. Franck only has one. Mahler has none (though apparently he was working on one while still a music student or something). Bruckner has none. Shostakovich only has one but he has a viola sonata so I guess it evens out. Tchaikovsky and Rachmaninoff have none. Glazunov and Balakirev have none. Rimsky-Korsakov and Scriabin have none. Dvorak (technically) and Suk have none. Sibelius and Rangstrom and Langaard have none. Roy Harris and William Schuman have none. Nielsen and Walton have none. Vaughan Williams only has one. Chopin and Liszt have none. And so on.

>>127750568
How

>>127750686
some of those composers made hardly any chamber music at all, so no surprises there. but with j.s. bach, mozart, beethoven, schubert, schumann, brahms, debussy, ravel, ives, enescu etc. we're hardly lacking in repertoire.

>>127750734
Well, I know it's silly, but somehow my mind views the violin sonata almost like it's the 'default' or most fundamental classical form lol, so I suppose that's why I feel like there ought to be more. Of course, I get why there isn't, and yes, we have plenty, no doubt. Just always wish there were more, and I feel that way about all of the forms!

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>Yesterday Kotek and I studied the new symphony by Brahms, a composer who is lauded to the skies in Germany. I cannot appreciate his charms. To me it is all dark, cold and full of pretensions to profundity without any genuine profundity. On the whole it seems to me that Germany is in decline musically. It seems that it is the French now who are taking centre-stage. They now have many new and strong talents. Perhaps even Russia will have something new to say, and indeed all the rest of Europe. But in Germany there is a positive decline. Wagner is the great representative of this floundering epoch.

>>127750755
>most fundamental classical form

interesting... i honestly can't think of a composer who's very best works are his violin sonatas although i do like plenty of them.

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now playing, last post of the morning, don't worry

Liszt: 2 Légendes, S.175: No. 1, St François d'Assise (La prédication aux oiseaux)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSQ3A6vkGfc&list=OLAK5uy_kw1aMXlIXowDPw-PIfL2I4Zf_5WT-oD5E&index=2

start of Liszt: Années de pèlerinage II, S.161, Deuxième Année: Italie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccp3VfwarMM&list=OLAK5uy_kw1aMXlIXowDPw-PIfL2I4Zf_5WT-oD5E&index=2

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kw1aMXlIXowDPw-PIfL2I4Zf_5WT-oD5E

One can never have too many recordings of Liszt's transcendent masterpiece, and I've loved just about everything I've heard from the pianist Piemontesi, so this ought to be great. Hopefully he ends up recording the enigmatic, funereal, and brooding third book!

Are Beethoven's violin sonatas actually good?

>>127750795
Yes, the Kreutzer is very good

>>127750778
>i honestly can't think of a composer who's very best works are his violin sonatas
whose*

and maybe I can change your mind with
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TB7S-6LfRg

>>127750795
The 5th, 'Spring,' and 9th, 'Kreutzer,' are essential, are the rest of the late ones are great as well, and if you're a serious Beethoven fan, all of them are worthwhile, provided you can find the ideal cycle for your tastes -- the first few kinda suck if you're listening to a performance that aren't playing it to your liking, whereas the 5th and 9th and 8th always sound good, is my point.

>>127750774
I suppose I can understand why Tchaikovsky wouldn't be the biggest fan of Brahms, and even why he'd prefer the likes of Franck, Faure, and Roussel, presumably the composers he's talking about when he refers to "the French". That said, he was wrong, but to each his own.

>>127750815
>whose*

oopsie.

grieg's chamber music is charming but not on par with his orchestral masterpieces and lyric pieces for piano imho.

>>127750845
>grieg's chamber music is charming but not on par with his orchestral masterpieces and lyric pieces for piano imho.
Fair enough, and respectable. It was just the most immediate plausible answer which came to mind. Maaaaybe I can possibly imagine someone thinking Franck's violin sonata is his best work as well. Those aside, I cannot think of any other reasonable answers.

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Genuinely one of, if not the most underrated Bruckner 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPM_lVMjLso

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lewd cover~

anyone know if this set is good? Mutter's violin tone can often be too severe and sharp, like she's trying to slice through the air. Can't hurt to try I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NCrFNFCBlQ&list=OLAK5uy_mLAamC0FkLI-1x0Z_oPtZMBGwdqXqVHM4&index=25

>>127750883
Not to my tastes but I can recognize it's good for what it is and for those who like those traits, plus Ormandy is Ormandy and he had the Philadelphia Orchestra is top-notch shape.

In a somewhat similar vein to that performance, might I recommend to you Sinopoli's 4th?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Y3YHgvRYJs&list=OLAK5uy_kWtFS0YajcEdjjsZEGjepgpCR0ZDr0sX0&index=1

fav violin sonatas:

mozart k.378, kreutzer, brahms 1, schumann 2, janacek

https://youtu.be/Mc1jsqRGJo8?si=heAx76Vsebhn09Nz

>>127727698
Best recordings of Allegris Miserere?
especially looking for minimal arrangements where the focus is on the sopranos

I love the haunting, longing, hypnotic quality of that piece. The soprano riffs hit so hard. Feels like the medieval Hide and Seek. Keen for recommendations on what else I might enjoy!

>>127750961
Respectable. For a quick list off the dome, I'd probably go

Beethoven 9
Brahms 1
Franck
Prokofiev 2
Schumann 2

Depending on mood, the Prokofiev and Schumann could plausibly be switched out for maybe Elgar or Faure or Grieg. Maybe Ravel? No.

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Blomstedt!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j1x9t2mCg8&list=OLAK5uy_kaqFqUByp_CNFNtepboUe6DTxa0p0yztI&index=22

>>127750211
She is great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zucBfXpCA6s

What kind of food did Mozart eat? Did he fart a lot? How did he poop? In a tiny hole on the ground? Did he wipe?

>>127751071
Satie only ate white food: rice, egg whites, cheese etc.

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Wagner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT9hRecyJKk

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had plans to revisit the Kempff Beethoven piano sonatas cycle from the 60s but I think I might finally try his mono set from the 50s, which a minority claim is even better (there's always a vocal minority making these kinds of claims, aren't there, haha). so if anyone wants to join me, here we go!

1st, Op. 2 No. 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8bci4hInoc&list=OLAK5uy_lS4atw9ssnghLeZxKW2qL_I_PsU_Mbqc0&index=2

2nd, Op. 2, No. 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj6E2wHIbN8&list=OLAK5uy_lS4atw9ssnghLeZxKW2qL_I_PsU_Mbqc0&index=6

3rd, Op. 2 No. 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3ByqxSf_W0&list=OLAK5uy_lS4atw9ssnghLeZxKW2qL_I_PsU_Mbqc0&index=13

4th, Op. 7 "Grande Sonate"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kww4JDvcn4&list=OLAK5uy_lS4atw9ssnghLeZxKW2qL_I_PsU_Mbqc0&index=10

link to playlist of the entire cycle
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lS4atw9ssnghLeZxKW2qL_I_PsU_Mbqc0

>>127748776
since you don't mind giving out (You)s, how about you justify the artistic merit of that specific example >>127740157 without handwaving mental gymnastics, those unmusical screeching tones, or do you have the hearing of an 80 year old so you don't hear anything wrong with it

perhaps schubert is "pranking" the audience, imagining that they're more or less falling asleep out of boredom or due to being geriatrics, and making spastic noises to wake them up

>>127751071
I forgot to post good music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VROBFNGUGdQ

>>127751133
Erik Satie? That's a weird taste.

>>127751303
3rd, in C major, is an early gem.

Just saw Carmen for the first time. Man, the French were degenerates even 140 years ago huh?

I love the adagio of bruckner 7

doooo....doooooooooo....DOOOOOOOOOO...dooo dooo doooo

>>127750755
have you heard max reger's violin sonatas? he has quite a few.

>>127751681
>the French were degenerates even 140 years ago huh

more so

>>127750686
You need to look into baroque or classical if you want sonatas bruv you listed only romanticslop. Sonatas were a baroque thing

>>127748210
>musicians today are technically the best they've ever been. Of
[Citation needed]

>>127751381
>justify the artistic merit of that specific example
I don't have to justify anything. I don't care about songs at all. That said, Schubert is still one of my favorite composers.

>>127750211
>>127751059
she's crap, search for her on reddit if you don't believe me. especially since anons hate on gould and she's just worse than that.

>>127750587
The epitome of music. However not a fan of these specific recordings desu

>>127751979
that's like saying mozart is your favorite, but you don't like opera. it makes zero sense.

>>127752021
I don't really care though. A few string quartets, sonatas, piano trios, symphonies, string quintet, piano quintet, fantasies, impromptus etc., are *more* than enough to put him above all before him, and an equal to Beethoven.

Hurwitz is right.
Pop songs > art songs. And obviously art music > pop music.

>>127752095
>underrates bach and mozart

underage much?

>>127752195
Romantic era is the intellectual peak. I don't underrate anyone.

>>127752289
How can it be the intellectual peak when emotions predominated? Consider the intellect vs emotional dichotomy

>>127752534
>How can it be the intellectual peak
Because it reached maximum sophistication in tonal harmony and form.
>when emotions predominated?
Non sequitur.
>Consider the intellect vs emotional dichotomy
It is a false dichotomy, one does not exist independent from the other.

the average poster here really hasn't studied anything about music huh?

>>127753179
I have not :) still like listening to it tho 'cuz it sounds nice

>>127751945
> better nutrition
> better meds
> access to training videos/materials from all over thew world
> better, more affordable instruments

I doubt there's much doubt about the fact that musicians today are technically the best they've ever been. They start from a much better place. Simple as.

>>127753654
well then how come when you listen to recordings that isn't the case

>>127753654
You forgot the most important of them all
>lower general intelligence

I love Bach

>>127753841
I prefer Debussy

>>127753654
doubt it. People back then lived the reality of their music, their instruments had better quality etc. Who can guarantee that a person born in 1700s Florence didn't have a better technique just due to being exposed to better architecture alone?

the only music sounding truly good to me right now are beethoven's piano sonatas, bach's wtc, and bach's cello suites

>>127754143
Okay. Do you want an award for that?

>>127754225
just sayin'. i thought this was the thread to discuss classical music and related things?

>>127754234
>the thread to discuss classical music
Yes, and not for brain farts related to classical music.

>>127754311
oh. s-sorry
NP:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAu3pMyKK-Y&list=OLAK5uy_nEuDnoVXeKKtQu3GL0hOVgE_zRlftFDpY&index=30

>>127734004
kek
how have i not heard polfags seethe at this

>>127750423
Anon, you may be too retarded to understand this, but by describing the greatness of Ride Of The Valkyries you demonstrate the importance of opera in classical history. You said that opera is only admired because of the theatre, but here you demonstrate that it can be admired from a purely musical dimension as well. Try not to shift the goalposts. You may also be too retarded to realise that Tchaikovsky was not depreciating opera, as he wrote operas and greatly loved the form, but more specifically criticising Wagnerian opera.

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>>127753841
>>127754061
I like both, and sex havers like both of these composers

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>>127750832
I don't think He's referring to Roussel, since he wasn't composing at that time, I would assume Bizet or Chabrier. Tchaikovsky may have been wrong about Brahms but he was right about the French taking center stage at that moment in time.

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>>127756703
Ah, good shout.

any composer you guys don't like listening to but like to play?
I rarely listen to Debussy but I find myself playing his Reverie pretty often when I sit at the piano. same with a couple Chopin waltzes.

>>127755298
Polfags don't actually care about Western art outside of very mainstream examples.

>>127757005
polfags dont care about western art outside of the marble statues they use as their profile pictures

>>127756911
If I'm being honest I prefer Germany.

wagner, bruckner, strauss, pfitzner, hindemith

hauptmann, george, rilke, hesse, trakl

murnau, lang, riefenstahl, syberberg, herzog

menzel, leibl, nolde, barlach, marc

nietzsche, husserl, spengler, heidegger, junger, adorno

>>127757245
Hmm, post an appropriate accompanying German painting and I will concede the point.

>>127757245
>hauptmann
>george
>trakl
>syberberg
>menzel
>leiobl
>marlack
>marc

literally whom?

Any composers with interesting enough lives to read a biography about them? Mozart seems like the main one with child prodigy touring Europe thing. Most composers seem like they're all nerds writing in their rooms and not getting up to much else.

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>>127757280

Liszt vs Chopin?

>>127757425
>>127757245
teutonically based

>>127757435
Chopin reigns supreme over the heart and body and Liszt reigns supreme over the mind and soul. Depends which you prefer to channel in music.

>>127757471
I fear the schizophrenic ramblings I may get as a response, but what is the difference between the heart and the soul for you?

>>127757981
By 'heart' I roughly mean emotions and feelings. Love, melancholy, nostalgia, somberness, excitement, hope. By 'soul,' that's like your inner psychology and consciousness. Your morality, your Will, your vision for your life and the world, your sense of fulfillment and purpose.

>>127757404
Schumann and Beethoven
and maybe Bruckner

>>127758007
well then what's the difference between the sould and the mind?

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cAN'T I JUST SAY STUFF ON HERE ANYUMORE THAT JUST SOUNDS GOOD WITOUT HAVING TO EXPLAIN ERVERY LITTLE THING ahhhHHHHHH

>>127757981
Imagine being so autistic you think concepts like heart and soul are schizo shit. Touch some grass my guy

>>127758025
The mind is the more deliberate, conscious stuff. Logic, imagination, craft. It's the adventures of Annees de pelerinage, the virtuoso, dazzling form of the Transcendental Etudes, the dense architecture of the Hungarian Rhapsodies, among other Liszt pieces. etc.

>>127758055
imagine knowing so little about people that you think autism is needed for that

>>127753706
or perhaps a sense of entitlement so that even the truly idiotic people feel like they can participate so there's less opportunities left for the truly talented people to dedicate their lives to becoming musicians

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now playing

Debussy: Masques, CD 110
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxFy42knZY0&list=OLAK5uy_mag_N7SDsJbcWZ3GqSO4w2IIrK4W3c0TY&index=2

Debussy: D'un cahier d'esquisses, CD 112
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsEkkaGxTQE&list=OLAK5uy_mag_N7SDsJbcWZ3GqSO4w2IIrK4W3c0TY&index=3

Debussy: L'isle joyeuse, CD 109
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCtMuGp1B5w&list=OLAK5uy_mag_N7SDsJbcWZ3GqSO4w2IIrK4W3c0TY&index=4

start of Debussy: Images
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZtnLfoXNaM&list=OLAK5uy_mag_N7SDsJbcWZ3GqSO4w2IIrK4W3c0TY&index=5

start of Debussy: Estampes, CD 108
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsvXISBER8s&list=OLAK5uy_mag_N7SDsJbcWZ3GqSO4w2IIrK4W3c0TY&index=11

start of Debussy: Children's Corner, CD 119
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUPP6JQjeJs&list=OLAK5uy_mag_N7SDsJbcWZ3GqSO4w2IIrK4W3c0TY&index=13

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mag_N7SDsJbcWZ3GqSO4w2IIrK4W3c0TY

always comfy listening to Debussy before bed

>>127751992
Fair enough, took me a while to like it myself, and it's still far from my desert island recording.

>listen to anons suggestions (or in this case liszt piano concerto 1 because liszt was mentioned)
>get shrekt by auto-suggested beethoven
many such cases
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IS30yphoy50

>>127758516
>shrekt
is that a good thing? If it is, yeah, can't go wrong with Beethoven's fifth piano concerto, and Lang Lang is great for those into his style + Eschenbach is a solid conductor.

Hi classical. What do you hear when you are full of rage and hate?

>>127759025
Depends on the type of rage and hate, there's plenty.
Shostakovich's 8th quartet goes from totally depressed, hopeless, nihilist 1st mov to the most unhinged and raging 2nd:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctcAUHyn2sM&list=OLAK5uy_kYjdeZTnmbWfKD_VtXYC_KV5wN6d0X_T8&index=28
Prokofiev's 2nd concerto is likewise full of overwhelming dread(cadenza of 1st mov), but it doesn't sound like an inner struggle, but rather an apocalypse. It's hard to describe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6xqrYTP3M0&list=OLAK5uy_m584kMl5eNhxgOpnkMSMiBWzIyZMklnVk&index=11
(War sonatas are even more fitting)
Beethoven's Grosse Fuge is extremely violent, but still romantic in flavor, and highest point in western art:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6nqfPWxWCg

Walton Cello Concerto best recording?

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>>127759283
>highest point in western art:
Mega based! Beethoven is indeed the culmination of music. His Grosse fugue is one of the best approaches to human emotions starting with anger and despair yet ending with light and hope. I have yet to hear Prokofiev and Shostakovich (for I am more of a renissance to early romantic guy)

>>127759568
>renissance to early romantic guy
Based Mozart and Chopin chad

>>127758018
beethoven actually had a really boring life. the only significant thing that happened in his private life was the custody battle over his nephew, and it's a really nauseating episode.

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>>127759815
Indeed

https://youtu.be/7eLzLkyDuiY?feature=shared

https://youtu.be/Nb0NJ9yGjW0?feature=shared

>>127757398
You need to read more.

>>127757404
Wagner, had an exciting life doing things like fleeing debtors, taking part in a revolution, fleeing police, building a theatre, etc.

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>>127760438

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Bach

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shB6rjjAf78

Are there any other romanticized Bach recordings you guys like? Been trying to find some romanticized recordings of CPE bach's Hamburg symphonies as well recently but to no avail, closest is Richter

>>127750959
I already heard Sinopoli's fourth, love that recording as well. It's my go-to when I want to hear a Bruckner with european seating arrangement

>>127757404
Havergal Brian

Bach
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FHb4d8TwIE

>>127760598
Are you familiat with >>127733360
And Stokowski's other orchestrated organ works?

>>127760884
Of course, I am mainly referring to romanticized performances of Bach's orchestral work that use full size string sections, modern instruments, etc

>>127760598
>Are there any other romanticized Bach recordings you guys like?
This site, which reviews recordings of the cello suites, labels which recordings are baroque, romantic, or in the middle on this page,
https://bachcellosuites.co.uk/bach-cello-suites-home/list-of-reviews

Otherwise, of course Karajan's Bach. Britten's Bach too is romantic-lite.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4amnD3yZdIw&list=OLAK5uy_mJmdoPpkjEtknWVcyC5yoDUHgV8KlT9mw&index=6

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I somehow got convinced to give Andras Schiff's Beethoven a try, so uh, let's go

16, Op. 31 No. 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfOrva-aE6E&list=OLAK5uy_nxVhDQKYJ1pMHYTUc1f-UCNGOmC7IP6HE&index=2

17, Op. 31 No. 2 "Tempest"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_O3UfGQ0lI&list=OLAK5uy_nxVhDQKYJ1pMHYTUc1f-UCNGOmC7IP6HE&index=5

18, Op. 31 No. 3 "The Hunt"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq_mybZ4hPw&list=OLAK5uy_nxVhDQKYJ1pMHYTUc1f-UCNGOmC7IP6HE&index=8

21, Op. 53 "Waldstein"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXAX6tnDqKg&list=OLAK5uy_nxVhDQKYJ1pMHYTUc1f-UCNGOmC7IP6HE&index=12

Andante favori in F Major, WoO 57
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jh9UWekYRT4&list=OLAK5uy_nxVhDQKYJ1pMHYTUc1f-UCNGOmC7IP6HE&index=14

These ECM covers are always so nice. It's definitely a large part of how I consistently get persuaded into trying out their recordings

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUF2NttYa5s
>most of my videos are short and are made for people with ADHD
How do you say this with a straight face

>>127761362
>Elina Akselrud
Ah, I've seen her Scriabin piano sonatas cycle around, always wondered if it was worth a try.

>How do you say this with a straight face
What's wrong with that? It's just something people say.
ex.
>This extensive breakdown is sure to appeal to other autists like me!
It's something people say these days.

>>127761404
Anon is just modern-phobic.

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>>127761203
The cover arts always just look pretentious to me, a lot of modern classical cover art does. I dislike when you have genuinely nice recordings but then the visual for that is just some paint smears, graffiti, photo of a road (??? I genuinely see that sometimes), etc. I miss the style of cover art from the mid 20th century that properly captured the mood of the pieces on the album.

>>127761404
>>127761431
Lol
>Elina Akselrud
She sounds *hyper* autistic about Scriabin in that video. Probably worth checking out I guess.

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>>127761459
>The cover arts always just look pretentious to me
True, they do go for that cultivated modern style of sophisticated tastefulness that's heavily influenced by minimalism. What can I say, it works on me.

>>127761362
they both seem kinda awkward, maybe autismo/ADHD themselves

i'm finally getting around to listening to rudolf serkin's beethoven sonatas (sony). dude really delivers.

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>>127761625
Haven't tried his, but I've heard good things and I've of course enjoyed most other Serkin recordings I've listened to.

>>127761621
>maybe
definitely*

>>127761638
his 1962 appassionata is where it's at!

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wtf I like Schiff now!?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu6JWYhBr2Y&list=OLAK5uy_lubhZqlOjoChhBnsc48yAdR4WxvQ4C7E8&index=16

>>127761851
disgusting

>>127747437
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MgPQ1kh4GE
this is unlistenable. the recording might have been manipulated to "sweeten" the piano tone but with an off-putting harsh piercing result. still, the composition and the playing is simply frustrating and not worth listening to. it would surely get millions of views if it were truly top tier.

chopin is extremely overrated, probably because he took on a french identity. the french are arrogantly proud of themselves and overrate daft punk as well.

his father was a frenchman and he was born in a polish state established by napoleon

like if you allowed a toddler to become a chef and the kid puts candy on top of candy, that's what chopin is like

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chopin emoji

>>127762029
sounds like he was a man of destiny

>>127761661
If the finale and coda of Appassionata aren't inhumanely fast, it ain't good. I'm not feelin it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNHY9zoZGCM
I'm FEELING it right here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24E444gNn4g
Bless Richter.
>>127762140
Me when I listen to 4th ballade

>>127762225
get goode
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5d1pqBK4Fw&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=72

>>127762311
>goode

prettifying beethoven just doesn't work