Beethoven editionhttps://youtu.be/7PNe2LcIb6IThis thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>127651161
Reminder Bach and after, before and not including Ives.
BachPrelude (Toccata) and Fugue in E major, BWV 566Ton Koopman on the Schnitger organ in the Jacobikirche (Hamburg)https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=RrkZd2JDwfYhttps://music.youtube.com/watch?v=ewax6BGhKdg
>>127697436While we can come to some agreement on what constitutes a good musical performance, we will never agree on which particular performances embody those characteristics.
>>127697528>reminder Bach and Before, Ives and AfterWell said my friend, well said
>when its time for the daily reminder
>Today I will remind themBABAB>DAILY REMINDER>DAILY REMINDERIAAAAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWOIKCtjiw&list=RDKyWOIKCtjiw&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLugJIWdpCM&list=RDtLugJIWdpCM&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-utT-BD0obk&list=RD-utT-BD0obk&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxx7Stpx7bU&list=RDcxx7Stpx7bU&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCoOqsxLxSo&list=RDkCoOqsxLxSo&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgjwiadze1w&list=RDSgjwiadze1w&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ44z_ZqzXk&list=RDOQ44z_ZqzXk&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyBRbbHpno&list=RDpGyBRbbHpno&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy. - Ludwig Van Beethoven
>average BABIAA listenerWe will disarm and subdue every 18th-19th century heretic that would put on a Mozart Piano concerto or Chopin NocturneWe are the Mockers of MozartWe put a chokehold on classicismWe are the Cuckolders of ChopinWe are the Rapists of RomanticsWe are the murderers of MahlerWe strike fear in ever pretentious and Neurotic writer of 1 hour symphonies
I wish there were more piano trios
>when they listen to Mozart and Haydn concertos and completely neglect the Sun Kings court>When they listen to vocal works by Verdi, Rossini or Puccini, but not Palestrina or the Franco-Flemish School>When they don't listen to Marin Marais more frequently than Beethoven or Brahms>No Perotin or Medieval Music
>Bach>Machaut>Ives>Marais>Buxtehude>Stravinsky>Reich>BartokNo Mozart, No Brahms, No Haydn, No MahlerNo Autistic Teutonic spirit shall oppress or taint the Gallic, Latin, and Slavic soul
NO MOZARTNO CHOPINNO MAHLERALL ROMANTICS SCRAM!ALL CLASSICISTS EAT SHIT AND DIETHIS THREAD IS FOR MARIN MARAIS!SONATA FORM SHOULD DIEONLY CONCERTO GROSSO FOR I!HAYDN IS LIKE A ROTTEN WHEATWHAT I NEED IS A BACH CELLO SUITEBACH AND BEFORE, IVES AND AFTER
>>127697605An even dumber statement. Sense-perceptions are not so divergent that collecting quantitative data is impossible.
>>127697811>>127697831>>127697840Did highbrow people really read Life magazine?
>>127697908They didn't listen to Romantislop that's for sure
Why was he the only competent organ writer after Bach? How did Mendelssohn, Brahms, and Reger fuck up so badly compared to him?
>>127697906Quantitative data on what?
Classical is so silly I love it
arvo part is _____
>>127697962No one fucked up. Organ is a terrible, screechy, incomprehensible instrument. Even some of the better Bach's organ works are preferable on the piano.
>>127697988What is happening in a performance.
>>127697962You're forgetting Bruckner.
Do critics gather “quantitative data” before they write their reviews? No, I don’t think so.
>>127698072Not systematically, but obviously any good critic will to some degree.
>>127698105Another deranged lunatic ruining Wagner's reputation.
>>127698064>>127697906> Sense-perceptions are not so divergent that collecting quantitative data is impossibleWhat does that have to do with what I originally typed? You seem to think I am claiming that differences in taste arise solely because of differences in sense perception.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DUCF6Te5i4
DbVb13 - EV#11
>>127697939Sure they did. Who do you think was funding the composers?
Can anyone in this general even read sheet music?
>>127699311of course. the only musically illiterate people here are tourists.
>>127699311they do vibes-based subjective listening like any casual normie but think of themselves as intellectuals because of classical=sophisticated meme and do crazy interpretations about emotions as if they have the slightest clue what they're talking about (even the doctrine of the affections from hundreds of years ago makes the distinction that they are not emotions)
>>127699564please go back to plebbit.
>>127699311I am analyzing Beethoven currently, and composing some garbage no one should be subjected to listening. >>127699564>classical=sophisticated meme>memeYou have a stinky fart between your ears
>>127698182If you can agree on what characterises a good performance, then you will very easily agree on specific examples of performances that possess those characteristics. You should be arguing that we cannot agree on what characterises a good performance, if you want to be relativist in judgement.
>>127699311I am inferior in my music knowledge to everyone else here :)
>>127699966kill yourself.
>>127699970I've got 9 years left before my plans to do that
>>127699976then I suggest you change your plans.
Tchaikovsky's piano sonatas are so underratedhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU7cE6qDGxE
>>127700004why are you gay?
>>127700020You don't like it?
>>127700025>he doesn't know.
>>127697962Reger is great>>127698053the world's first organ hater
>>127700004nah screw this glazing of every classical composer. this is no good.
>>127700070Well, I like it! How about his other one in C-sharp minor, Op. 80?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHqoANSNLAY
Brahmshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bmfr94UhaI&list=OLAK5uy_njpDyKE8pHCF25LJV2GvxS5HxC4_Fyj48&index=2
>>127700086try 10:45https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usPwph7i3ccthe music theory is basic af but it's more fun to listen to because of how it sounds
Scriabi :3
>>127700166I will find you and I will brutally murder you and your entire fucking family.
>>127700166...uh, what does this have to do with Tchaikovsky? Are you a bot?>>127700217harsh but fair
>>127700004Can't deny Tchaikovsky's genius, even in his unpopular works, but his piano writing and excess octaves makes my sophisticated Chopinesque audible senses cringe in pain.
now playingstart of Brahms: Piano Sonata No. 3 in F Minor, Op. 5https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrG5CYEmpBY&list=OLAK5uy_nJNenO-jVcidxbGa3wQgJV6PCThtFLhbM&index=51Brahms: 4 Klavierstücke, Op. 119: No. 4 in E-Flat Major, Rhapsody.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep_JiQBXNMM&list=OLAK5uy_nJNenO-jVcidxbGa3wQgJV6PCThtFLhbM&index=56Brahms: 8 Klavierstücke, Op. 76: No. 2 in B Minor, Capriccio.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGFu8P6b5FQ&list=OLAK5uy_nJNenO-jVcidxbGa3wQgJV6PCThtFLhbM&index=57Brahms: 6 Klavierstücke, Op. 118: No. 6 in E-Flat Minor, Intermezzohttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0vr2AWgxng&list=OLAK5uy_nJNenO-jVcidxbGa3wQgJV6PCThtFLhbM&index=58Brahms: 2 Rhapsodies, Op. 79: No. 1 in B Minorhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYUOzB7qj3g&list=OLAK5uy_nJNenO-jVcidxbGa3wQgJV6PCThtFLhbM&index=58https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nJNenO-jVcidxbGa3wQgJV6PCThtFLhbMReally digging Brahms' third piano sonata, Op. 5 at the moment, so gonna spend the coming days listening to a variety of different recordings. Next will probably be Grimaud's. Any other recs are, as always, appreciated!
>>127700264that's fair. sophisticated is absolutely not a word I'd use to describe either of Tchaikovsky's piano sonatas. what do you think of his piano cycle, The Seasons?
>>127700272I like it. It has intoxicatingly beautiful melodies. But orchestration is where Tchaikovsky truly shines.
Ugorskaja's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7T4qVKgfYM&list=OLAK5uy_kbhHSbqBix_nuXESX9f_oA4GcBbdwDWMU&index=28not to in any way diminish the greatness of Book I of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, but to my ears Book II's greatness is on even a higher level than that, which is no small achievement, and I'm surprised for all the standalone recordings there are of Book I, there aren't any for Book II
>>127700295no doubt
What's your preferred classical work to be played at your wake? I've thought about this quite a bit since I saw someone ask this over a year ago in this general, and currently I'm down to Brahms' German Requiem, Berlioz's Requiem, or Bach's Cello Suites. Verdi's Requiem might scare everyone off, haha. A playlist consisting of a mix of handpicked movements and short pieces would probably be the real ideal, but meh.Bach's Mass in B Minor (Klemperer) is tempting too.
>>127699564it's the poet's way of listening to music :^)
>>127700391I couldn't care less what happens after I'm dead.
>>127700391Brahms' 4 symphonies, Beethoven's symphonies minus 1-2-4, or Mahler 2+10
For the harpsichord Bach fans here, while reading reviews and looking for new recordings to try, I came across this one of Bach's Art of Fugue performed by Christophe Rousset. It's not for me, but might be up ya'll's alley.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKoidvly4lw&list=OLAK5uy_kBpe8pd7gv8FwMulNWQHB7JAPwGfJskrw&index=1Hope you anons enjoy.
>>127700391Cage's 4"33 is the most patrician choice.
>>127700391All I want at my funeral is two large-breasted whores dressed in black sobbing over my grave. Nothing else.
>>127700391Titurel's Funeral March:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP1hIizmUjU
Rockmaninoffhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvK988eohNI
>>127700621ultra based
Mozarthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ttk0PnK5dY
>>127700391Tchaikovsky 6. I don't think a better symphonic expression of personal tragedy, anguish and death has ever been written.I thought Mahler 2 (or 8) but it ends on a positive note and is overall too optimistic. Mahler 7th maybe?If we're talking non-symphony - Shostakovitch string quartets 8 and 15. There's something chilling and jarringly final about them.From modern ones: Alyssa Wang - Swept Away Concerto for Violin and Chamber Orchestra. She wrote it to commemorate her father's death and it certainly feels.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dj9C0DBVr_k
>>127697496https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lnuS3RpjpE
>>127699734What do you think characterises a good performance?
>>127699734You obviously haven’t thought this throughAccording to google AI:> A good musical performance is characterized by technical skill, emotional expression, strong stage presence, clear connection with the audience, and a unique artistic interpretation that makes the music "their own”When it comes to listing which performances display technical skill, emotional expression, strong stage presence, clear connection with the audience, and unique artistic expression, we will not be in complete agreement, for we disagree on the meaning of these terms. For example, you may think that Hewitt’s WTC performances display strong technical skill, and I may disagree because I deny that playing the piano requires technical skill. You may believe that Hewitt’s performance displays emotional expression, but I may not perceive any emotion whatsoever. You might think Hewitt has a clear connection to the audience, yet if the audience consisted of masculine men, they are unlikely to agree. Hume> There are certain terms in every language, which import blame, and others praise; and all men, who use the same tongue, must agree in their application of them. Every voice is united in applauding elegance, propriety, simplicity, spirit in writing; and in blaming fustian, affectation, coldness, and a false brilliancy: But when critics come to particulars, this seeming unanimity vanishes; and it is found, that they had affixed a very different meaning to their expressions.
>>127699734You should be in agreement with me, if you want to defend the necessity of critics.
>>127700509Thanks, friend. Very nice.
>>127703266Mahler's 8th is an appealing choice but I worry to the audience it'd just be alienating and make me seem like a pretentious tryhard. Shostakovich's SQ 15 is a good shout.
W.A.MozartAlla Turca Wim Winters Clavichordhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uk-7vgqk0k
>>127705783Confessing my Mahler sin: I'm wholly indifferent to his 6th. I find it meandering without a particular goal or direction. Dunno why people think it's his greatest one.
>>127705967All I have to say to that is thishttps://litter.catbox.moe/ak5mxlr2i7coh4w0.flac
>>127698036so true
>>127706000Ok, I'm super high and listening. Will write impressions later.
>>127706106if it doesn't make you go ;_; then anon I don't even wanna know ya
>>127706156people don't have to literally cry from listening to music, fucking pretentious faggots, you're missing out if you think that's all there is to music
>>127706294relax, I was just joshin' around, it's not literal.also, heartwarming sentimentality is precisely the mood of the movement, so it's not misplaced at all
>>127706326https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._8_(Mahler)that's a huge stretch, at best you can find interpretations from music historians, not mahler himselff
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._6_(Mahler)
>>127706421...? anon, we were talking about the Andante from the 6th posted here: >>127706000listen to it and you'll see why ;_; is perfectly applicable lol
>>127706421>>127706433the Andante is the last gasp of happiness before the tragic turmoil and great struggle of the long final movement
>>127706433>>127706452it's not that deep, he made "content" because people paid him to do it. the interpretations are some post-humous mental gymnastics from grifting historians and music critics, who are making schizo connections about how it was a happy time for him with his marriage and birth of his child, but speculating that there was conflict in the marriage to explain the dynamics within the music. mahler himself did not say any of this. you're being mentally ill like you don't obsess about hans zimmer in this way, he's just making "content" or "slop" to fit the movie soundtracks.
>>127706493???Anon, I'm not referring to biographical details whatsoever, I'm talking solely within the dramatic narrative of the symphony, pure music. Just listen to it and it'll be obvious the emotions it evokes, especially in relation to the other movements.
>>127706519i'm more inclined to agree with >>127705967
>>127706527If you don't like it, that's fine, I respect all tastes, and can understand why someone wouldn't like the 6th or Mahler at all. But there's no denying what the Andante is trying to achieve emotionally, dramatically, and musically in the structure of the symphony (which is precisely why there's such heated debate over the proper and optimal order of the Scherzo/Andante movements, because the reverse ruins the dramatic tension and musical balance).
>>127706553>the reverse ruins the dramatic tension and musical balancemahler himself changed the order lmaoyou're reading into it too much like a teenage girl swooning over a katy perry song not realizing that it's an engineered product which has very little to do with sincere emotional expression, and some literally who artist could be just as emotional but you don't care for their music because they didn't use the same recording technology as the beatles to manipulate your "emotions"
>>127706595>mahler himself changed the order lmao...yes, which only proves how concerned he was with the dramatic structure of the work. The Andante achieves different results depending if it's placed before or after the Scherzo, but it doesn't change the emotional content of the movement itself, and all I'm saying is that emotional content is rather obvious, all you have to do is listen to it lol. Next you'll be saying the finale of Beethoven's 9th isn't really life-affirming, isn't really an Ode to Joy, and isn't really a celebration of the Enlightenment ideals.>you're reading into it too much like a teenage girl swooning over a katy perry song not realizing that it's an engineered product which has very little to do with sincere emotional expression, and some literally who artist could be just as emotional but you don't care for their music because they didn't use the same recording technology as the beatles to manipulate your "emotions"O_OYeah... I'm just gonna go lay down and go back to listening to music. Have a good one.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5jJKNiv6fI
>>127706635plenty of people don't really like mahler despite having given it more than enough of a chance, mahler isn't top-tier famous like mozart or beethoven. you're not necessarily a musical genius because you fall for his cheap tricks like making some sections louder to imply drama etc.
>>127706660O_Ojust smile and nod politely until the crazy man goes away, kids...
>>127706663>O_Ofuck you stop looking at me like that you fAagGOT
Regarding the hype: I think a lot of it has to do with an image of Mahler representing a singular, struggling artist. His symphonies are described to audiences as deeply personal yet somehow universal works, with massively cathartic climaxes.I think some of this can be traced to Bernstein and the mythology he built around Mahler; in my opinion his interpretations of Mahler about the meaning in his music amount to little more than superficial fan fiction. And fan fiction abounds. Bottom line is Mahler is a composer that is superficially attractive to those who turn to classical music for some kind of deeper meaning.Another common perception of Mahler is the idea that his music is unquestionably programmatic and even cinematic, representing a hero (Mahler himself) going though a specific thing. People love that sort of thing. Here's a "hero" narrative of his 6th symphony, which I think is complete baloney.Last point about the hype is that he's always been considered, to use a common word on this sub, one of the most 'metal' composer. This has been true for a long time. If you look at newspapers from the 1950s and 60s there are advertisements for record players and speakers that tout that they can handle the Mahler sound.To me, none of that is very interesting and is all hype.
>>127706775I don't think anyone gives a shit about any of that. The music just sounds good.
>>127706800for you
>>127706811Of course. If you don't, that's understandable and fair, but don't make the mistake of thinking those who do have somehow been the victims of marketing, hype, and extraneous, non-musical considerations.
now playingstart of Beethoven: Sonata Opus 10, No. 5 in C minor, No. 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFsWQluZ1WY&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=14start of Beethoven: Sonata Opus 10, No. 6 in F Major, No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AzVQEMMBM4&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=17start of Beethoven: Sonata Opus 10, No. 7 in D Major, No. 3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eShtZicE6_g&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=20start of Beethoven: Sonata no. 4 in E-flat major, op. 7https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9_GG678ItU&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=23https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U>It's interesting that the great Beethoven sonata cycles areseldom the ones by the big-name virtuosos. Horowitz never attempted one. Neither did Rubinstein. Ashkenazy recorded them all, but with only partial success. Richter never managed all 32 works at one time, and Gilels died before completing his cycle. The most successful complete recordings--Schnabel, Kempff, Arrau, and Backhaus--are all by pianists with a solidly intellectual mindset, however powerful their technique. Goode joins this select company, turning in performances of uncompromising integrity and musical strength. Of course, his reputation as a musician's musician precedes him: here is a player sensitive to Beethoven's every nuance, presenting the composers thoughts with exemplary clarity and taste. This is the Beethoven cycle for the '90s. --David Hurwitz
>>127706775>Bernstein and the mythology he built around Mahler;>the idea that his music is unquestionably programmatic and even cinematic,Isn't that the same thing..?For me it's totally irrelevant. The same with Shostakovich and mythos surrounding him, I just don't care. I find my own meaning in music, be it Mahler or Beethoven. Even if it goes against the narrative or whatever. And it's simple, some people truly love Mahler's music. The rest of it (hype), is just an expression of the said love. People giving more meaning to the music that they enjoy. Not the other way around, as you describe.
everybody who likes what I don't is either misguided or pretending
>>127706824you're making schizo interpretations about "emotions" like you think it's obvious that people are going to interpret the music the way that you do, it's bullshit
>>127700139i always feel like it's slightly wrong to listen to Brahms conducted by arch-wagnerian conductors like mengelberg and furtwangler. doesn't their whole interpretative method fly in the face of what brahms was trying to do? we know how different the piano playing of brahms and liszt was.
>>127708646That's an interesting point. I suppose my counter would be: thesis, meet antithesis, become synthesis for something better.
Thoughts on Cherubini? He was regarded as the greatest composer of his time by Beethoven, yet his works seem to be largely forgotten/not recorded. Chailly recorded some of his works, such as Symphony in D major:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BubARrLardM&list=OLAK5uy_m0MfgCOknIt3T9lGwnvDT72Y892NIc7Wk&index=2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POEf6nDBcIUshe explains music enjoyment in terms of dopamine. dopamine is a generic "feel good" chemical tied to motivation and reward like with sex and many addictive drugs. it's not directly tied to emotions. so fuck you. you're just parroting this shitty meme like by the "inside the score" youtuber who you included in the copypasta about how to listen to classical music even though he completely sucks.
literal schizos have abnormal dopamine activity so that helps explain why schizos get obsessive about specific music like by katy perry or mahler and give bullshit explanations about muh emotions like it's some universal truth that those in particular have superior emotional qualities than almost all other music.
huh, didn't know a piano four hands version of Brahms' German Requiem existed, and there's a few recordings of it too. this one is performed by the solid pianists Brigitte Engerer and Boris Berezovsky, both I've enjoyed what little I've heard from them (Chopin from the former, Liszt from the latter).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOgK7tpwrSk&list=OLAK5uy_nTpUod0eqLGCqbdFRp7KyijzxnFAIIgzk&index=1Lovely!
>>127709647>like it's some universal truth that those in particular have superior emotional qualities than almost all other music.Mahler indeed does. Along with Bruckner, Beethoven, Chopin, Schubert, Tchaikovsky etc. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out.
An excerpt everyone on /classical/ should read:>CHARACTER AND MOOD >The concept that music expresses something is generally accepted. However, chess does not tell stories. Mathematics does not evoke emotions. Similarly, from the viewpoint of pure aesthetics, music does not express the extramusical. But from the viewpoint of psychology, our capacity for mental and emotional associations is as unlimited as our capacity for repudiating them is limited. Thus every ordinary object can provoke musical associations, and, conversely, music can evoke associations with extramusical objects. Many composers have composed under the urge to express emotional associations. Moreover, programme music goes so far as to narrate entire stories with musical symbols. There also exist a great variety of ‘characteristic pieces’ expressing every conceivable mood. There are Nocturnes, Ballades, Funeral Marches, Romances, Scenes from Childhood, Flower Pieces, Novelettes, etc., by Chopin and Schumann. There are Beethoven’s Eroica and Pastorale Symphonies; Berlioz’s Roman Carnival; Tchaikovsky’s Romeo and Juliet; Strauss’s Thus Spake Zarathustra; Debussy’s La Mer; Sibelius’s Swan of Tuonela; and a multitude of others. Finally, there are songs, choir music, oratorios, operas, melodramas, ballets and motion-picture music. All these categories are intended to produce not only musical impressions, but also to provoke secondary effects: associations of a definite character. The term character, applied to music, refers not only to the emotion which the piece should produce and the mood in which it was composed, but also the manner in which it must be played. It is fallacious to think that the tempo indications determine character. In classical music, at least, this is not true. There is not one adagio character, but hundreds; not one scherzo character, but thousands.(1/2)
>>127710036>An adagio is slow; an allegro is fast. This contributes something, but not everything, to the expression of a character. The type of accompaniment plays an important role in the establishment of character. No player could express the character of a march if the accompaniment were that of a chorale; no one could play a restful adagio melody if the accompaniment were like a torrent. Old dance forms were characterized by certain rhythms in the accompaniment, which were also reflected in the melody...From Schoenberg's Fundamentals of Musical Composition.(2/2)
>>127709429personally I do like brahms conducted by mengelberg at al. but i have to wonder to what extent it departs from his original intentions.
>>127709566One of my favourites. Definitely deserves to be more famous.
Haydnhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8vsu4sxv_o&list=PLPOxkF4DZiHA-iB1P3yOY2hzS26AVWvwz&index=58
>>127709921>superior emotional qualities than almost all other music>Mahleronly half of the time>Bruckneryes almost always>Beethovenlate Beethoven sure, fully agree>Chopinin your dreams>Schubertonly half of the time>Tchaikovsky like a quarter of the time
Schumannhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvNe8my_uVU&list=OLAK5uy_nn3qK3ENpQPjkKV0WqDYQ6l6sPWyQ-Y9U&index=3
>>127710456Brainless bluepilled post. Read Schoenberg and more importantly, listen to more music. Chopin, Schubert and Tchaikovsky are easily the most emotionally charged composers, and this isn't even subjective, but formally evident.
>>127710491Claiming that some composers are the 'most emotionally charged' is just retarded. Sure, some more than others, but among the many romantics, naming three is just retarded.
>>127710522>Sure, some more than othersThat's the point.>naming three is just retarded.You contradict yourself.
>>127710550Understand the difference between 'more' and 'most'.
>>127710603If there are "composers that are more X than others", then, logiccally, in a finite set of X, there are "composers that are the most X".
The forces of hatred will never triumph.https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=3D69p-MMNcA
>>127710726That's not a logical assumption at all. How can you say Tchaikovsky is 'more emotional' than Liszt, Wagner or Grieg? They all exist at the uppermost level of emotional expressiveness as late romantic composers.
>>127710821I agree, Wagner and Grieg are certainly up there, I did not exclude them, and even though Liszt is particularly expressive, his melodic contour is usually not very lyrical and emotional, but his development and form does have strong emotional narrative. It's nuanced, however that doesn't mean we can't single out the best examples. And what I said previously was pure logic, feel free to disprove it.
>>127710491>bluepilledimmediately stopped reading
>>127710898You said Chopin, Schubert and Tchaikovsky are the most emotionally charged composers. Ergo, they're more emotionally charged than Liszt, Wagner, Grieg and others. I find this ridiculous, there's no logic behind such an assertion and you should have the bare minimum iq required to understand that.
>>127710986>there's no logic behind such an assertionI was refering to the logic I explained here >>127710726 which is true. It was in response to your claim about "Understand the difference between 'more' and 'most'."Which composers can be put on the top of that list is highly debatable, but not very subjective. You clearly don't follow.
unless you go out of your way to listen to tween crybaby shit like eminem (where even then it's heavily affected by the lyrics and his voice and not just the musical notes), listening to music is more like you can get a dopamine hit like how you can derive satisfaction from like solving a puzzle or earning some extra money, it's not inherently all that emotional unless you're an overly dramatic closet fag or schizophrenic
Chopinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_b4sBLtbJk&list=OLAK5uy_k6Rvvza2FG49QPN5Bv0wloZzLFmuBQcmM&index=39
>>127712167Nice voicing, good stuff.
>>127711131gays aren't particularly more emotional
>>127712214You're replying to a moron who can't even properly get his point across, but male homosexuals do have atypical brain anatomy with similarities to female brain, and certain reasoning patterns and personality traits that are also identical to female averages.
>The curse of the ninth is a superstition connected with the history of classical music. It is the belief that a ninth symphony is destined to be a composer's last, and that the composer will be fated to die while composing it, after composing it, or before completing a tenth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_the_ninthWhy is there a wikipedia page for this shit
Mendelssohnhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIvFHrVBFxo&list=OLAK5uy_mM2-VI1avsnaSn8f0WgOEhEan_yW7LTAo&index=16
>>127712354because it's a popular topic. there's a wikipedia page for far more pointless things
>>127712383kek true
>>127712354Mozart and Haydn: Am I a joke to you?
>>127711131>dopamine hitSilence gooner
>>127712214>>127712319https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxamb-R9U5M
Mozarthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi_5r3venxg
so im watching a movie titled the great white tower 1966 and wouldnt you know it mozarts piano sonata no. 11 is playing at minute 20. it really is the best when you think about it, not the movie which is okay but the composition. where else can you find grace put to composition in a way that matches that of sonata 11? i dont believe it's possible. why if it were then someone would have succeeded by now, surely, after all this time...but nope. nothing comes close.
>>127706156>>127706000Ok, listened yesterday a few times and today again. Not really feeling it. Some parts in the middle were ok, but honestly does not grip me at all and I love Mahler. Just not his 6 I guess.
>>127714776kill yourself, ESL nigger. whatever shithole country you're from should be range banned.
>>127714910> ESLDoubt it, >>127714776 reads like a typical amerimutt post - barely recognizable English and 12-hour clock time.
>>127715005America is truly a lost cause.
I've had my first concert experience today. It was lovely and I made some mental notes.– I'm surprised there were many more women my age among the attendees than men. Are concerts usually this Gen Z womancoded? Not that I'm complaining.– I was probably less than half of the average age in the audience. Not that I'm complaining again.– It was not as loud as I was expecting it to be. I'm pleased with this.– The music sounds almost identical to how it sounds when I listen at home, just a bit louder. This was the biggest surprise, but there are few factors to consider:1. Maybe my seat was unoptimal. I was on the ground floor all the way to the side. Didn't even see all the instruments. Taking recommendations for best seats.2. I only use Stax electrostatic headphones to listen to music. For those who don't know, they're built for authentic and natural sound reproduction. Immense clarity and zero harmonic distortion. I did like the sensation of air I felt in person, despite the instruments having identical sound quality with my headphones.– The petite mature blonde next to me was lovely. Had a delightful conversation with her during the break. She wrote down a piece I like from one of the composers performed.>>127714776>older Japanese movie>no strings or wind/brass instruments in the title cardsWell that's rare. Unless I'm mistaken and that movie simply had quick title cards.t: sat through hundreds
>>127715163concerts are a waste of money and spare time.
>>127715163Nice, glad you had a great time
>>127714884Well, thanks for giving it a try, that's all I can ask :)
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cwKWtlMWGes&list=OLAK5uy_nSRgUv-nKlVWeqp8SeC9LolNAfS4GQT4U&index=7
I gotta admit, the more I listen to Goode's unique Beethoven, the more I like ithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOkAFbMEvKM&list=OLAK5uy_khz8jF98pUvoSpKfaAv8rRNmLkOf58B1U&index=56It's almost hypnotic in its crystalline approach.
>>127710456>Chopin>in your dreamshow is Chopin not emotional?
what piece of music do you want to hear as you're dying?
>>127716263Much like Schubert did, Beethoven's String Quartet No. 14, Op. 131
>>127716263Haydn Hob XIX:32
>>127716263Cage - 4"33.
>>127716263I had a near death experience and it was improvised counterpoint in my head
>>127716382Ah, so that's why everyone considers The Art of Fugue a spiritual artifact.
>>127716395yes, it is the sound of the astral realm or something like that, i guess.
>>127716063too little variety of emotion and bad at contrasting what variety he does have
>>127716451no, i don't think you understand, Emotion=Sad.
should i get into Classical music if i'm already into Classical music? thanks in advance.
>>127716474no, just stick with Classical music. you're welcome after the fact
What are you slant-eyed gooks doing to that poor animal?
test.
>>127716429>it is the sound of the astral realmindeed. see: https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/126201506/#126237416
>>127716263Tod und Verklärung by Strauss>Just before his own death, he remarked that his music was absolutely correct, his feelings mirroring those of the artist depicted within; Strauss said to his daughter-in-law as he lay on his deathbed in 1949: "It's a funny thing, Alice, dying is just the way I composed it in Tod und Verklärung."
now playingstart of JS Bach: Cello Suite No. 1 in G Major, BWV 1007https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p70Yyfdbllk&list=OLAK5uy_nSXNp582nUGqE2W8ZZMKRUuGq8WLW3XqY&index=2start of JS Bach: Suite No. 3 in C Major, BWV 1009https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz8d8tk1dj0&list=OLAK5uy_nSXNp582nUGqE2W8ZZMKRUuGq8WLW3XqY&index=8start of JS Bach: Cello Suite No. 5 in C Minor, BWV 1011https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCvTPelsYng&list=OLAK5uy_nSXNp582nUGqE2W8ZZMKRUuGq8WLW3XqY&index=13https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nSXNp582nUGqE2W8ZZMKRUuGq8WLW3XqYgood night
>>127697528
Recs for idiosyncratic recordings of Chopin's 24 Preludes?
>Ross recorded 2 sonatas a day over 15 months, and the result was 34 compact discs packed with these miniature masterpieces, many of which had never been recorded before.holy shit the guy was an absolute monster and probably the most talented of the last 200 years. mogs your meme russians and jews to the ground
>>127717102>most talented of the last 200 yearslol calm down, franz liszt was more talented.
>>127716451>>127716455Schizophrenia. A single ballade contains more variety than entire eras of music.
>>127717476yeah i know, i >>127716455 was just joking
>>127714776anyone click on the cute girl even though the guy probably plays better
>>127717178Rachmaninoff was the most talented that we know of, since we actually have recordings. Maybe next to Hofmann, that guy was inhuman.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey4BwErfnAQgigachad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTcCd1geDfg
>>127718044i realized that the recording itself is fucked as if rude people are talking while he's playing or something. the background noise was like a warzone where i live so i wasn't quick to blame the recording.
>>127713266>Mozart and Haydn: Am I a joke to you?Yes. Yes you are.
now playingstart of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 1 in C Major, Op. 15https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuS2vNFRvHs&list=OLAK5uy_lmGqDUy5LqATRhhCYhceP0H-6j6mjFGkk&index=2start of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 2 in B Flat Major, Op. 19https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD5j6qMvBs0&list=OLAK5uy_lmGqDUy5LqATRhhCYhceP0H-6j6mjFGkk&index=5start of Beethoven: Piano Concerto No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 37https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38V23tPtmoo&list=OLAK5uy_lmGqDUy5LqATRhhCYhceP0H-6j6mjFGkk&index=7https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lmGqDUy5LqATRhhCYhceP0H-6j6mjFGkkI've held off on listening to this cycle for a long while but now it is time. Should be good!
>>127718014>le big hands that can le stretch memehis music was dogshit though
>>127718492Maybe on the opposite day.
>>127717102It makes a certain demographic angry to see a goyim clearly superior to them, notice how they have to shill for nepos like Horowitz and random russian shitters instead of accepting the truth. They did the same with violin btw with shilling their chosen over grumiaux and hahn
>>127717476hopefully you're just momentarily delusional but if you believe this then I don't even know why you're here
>>127717102I heard his recording of the WTC C major prelude then never gave him another shot because I thought it sucked
name a better violinist dead or alive
>>127718746>if you believe thisNo, I simply know it.> I don't even know why you're hereNo, why the fuck are (You) here out of all places, when you have no comprehension of musical forms and tradition, never even having read Schoenberg (>>127710036) or listened to Chopin?
>>127718770Einstein
>>127718770Heifetz
>>127717021Zhukovhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX9HkCuO5Ww
>>127718770Vivaldi
>>127718770Literally none. She has the best tone + technique ever and that's all that matters.
>>127719369She has subpar rubato
>>127719418Faggot opinion. Let's be honest if she was male and Jewish you contrarian losers would worship her.
post some baroque gems for cello. i know there are some hidden cello gems that are never talked about
What are some genuinely mozartian composers of the romantic period (Symphonic composers)?
>>127719860https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1ThqB50eQAThis symphony by Schubert.
Why are concertos so much less developmental in the classical period than symphonies? Even in the romantic period they tend to restate themes more than they actually develop them, one of the reasons i enjoy them less than symphonies
>>127719556she looks jewish bruh>Hilary Hahn, arguably the most celebrated violinist of our time, was a young Jewish girl growing up in the 80s. She studied with Jascha Brodsky a very old Jewish man who fled the Communists and Nazis to teach at the Curtis Institute.
How do violinists and bass players dont get neck problems
Spent a long fucking not listening to music and listened to this banger todayhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-shH2WKzJ4Fucking god how good that shit it, no wonder I used to listen to music almost all day long, I somehow forgotten how good it was
https://youtu.be/awWpqR7yUHM?si=ckDzSaIRLCfuT-ucTop 5 hardest violin pieces:>5. Bach - Chaccone>4. Ernst - Der Erlkonig>3. Ysaye - Sonata n. 6>2. Ernst - Last Rose of Summer>1. Paganini - God Save the KingThoughts?
>>127719860Saint-Saens
>>127718810I've listened to Chopin (hell I've PLAYED his waltzes), which is why I know his "emotions" are limited to different intensities of melancholy on one end and of mania on the other.he's simply not an emotionally varied composer. the vast majority of his ouvre is composed of short piano trivialities ffs
so im watching a movie entitled the shadow within 1970 and woulndt you know it vivaldi's spring movement no. 3 is playing at minute seven. it really is quite good when you think about it—no, not the movie, the composition! where else can you find a melody that resembles the characteristics of the seasons in a way that makes it feel especially like that time of year? i dont believe it's possible. why if it were then someone would have succeeded no even surpassed vivaldi and yet that hasnt happened even after all these hundreds of thousands of years. nothing comes close.
>>127720444Chaconne isn't even that hard. And difficulty means shit in music anyways.
>>127716263Mahler 2
so i got to thinking a little bit more about the inclusion of vivaldi in the shadow within 1970 and decided that it is totally out of place. when i hear vivaldi i dont think okay nows a good time to practice infidelity, to betray my wife of ten years, but rather, as far as spring is concerned, new beginnings for acts of devotion and other such virtues. the main character has intentions of his own, however, and they do not conform to my idea of the feelings i receive when i listen to that composition. am i to understand that i have misunderstood the meaning behind baroque, or has this film misused and abused the arts for its own benefit?
>>127719556the fact that the very first thing you do is accuse him of being a faggot shows that the opposite is true: you are the one who would hate Hahn if she were male because then you couldn't pretend to be listening to your sweet waifu anymore
>>127718770what >>127718969 said and it's not even close
>>127720934>I've listened to ChopinStarting off with lies.>different intensities of melancholy Absolute horseshit. Utter dementia. 3rd Ballade, Heroic Polonaise, first 2 movements of 2nd sonata, etudes (any, e.g. 10/4)... are melancholy... fucking LOL.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwrQ_owRzUUChopin was literally one of the first composers to put emotion in the form. Music was never, and still is NOT about emotion. That only became a thing when someone decided to make it into a thing. And it was not before the romantic era.>The concept that music expresses something is generally accepted. However, chess does not tell stories. Mathematics does not evoke emotions. Similarly, from the viewpoint of pure aesthetics, music does not express the extramusical.You are idiotic.
>>127697496are you guys gay? whenever i see threads like this its always some super popular composer every time, is this a poser thread?
>>127723021maybe try >>>/mu/ RYMsister?
>>127722943>Chopin was literally one of the first composers to put emotion in the formAnd this is a bad thing
>>127722943>music does not express the extramusical.Emotion is not extramusical.
There is nothing lower than emotions on the hierarchy of things. It's the lowest form of becoming: not only it's ephemeral but it is also based on an impression that can be 100% false, deluded. Which is why music died after baroque.
>>127723068Sounds like you're not an artistic personality. Every now and then a non-artistic personality becomes obsessed with art and tries to justify that obsession with values that have nothing to do with art.
>>127723097Art is not the expression of the artist's emotion. This is a very modern concept. Art was always about the expression of a truth, especially through symbols.
>>127723129>Art is not the expression of the artist's emotion.Correct, but it is the expression of emotions. The distinction between truth and emotion is itself a modern one and anti-primordial.
>>127723097And by the way I am of the artistic personality (and explore art through many mediums) but I'm not of the introverted feeling type. I value truth above feelings. I want to know what's real, I dont want to navigate through shadowy emotions, especially someone else's There are two types of artists
>>127723178>There are two types of artistsI can understand such a claim, insofar as they are working towards the same thing, only from two different directions. That is, the introverted feeling type works toward understanding the artwork objectively, and the opposite, perhaps extroverted thinking, works toward understanding it subjectively.I do not believe art is art that only appeals to one of these orientations.
>>127723062Yes it is.>>127723129>Art was always about the expression of a truthLOL. This retard thinks this is a philosophy club
For example Plato was clearly an artist, but at the same time he critiqued art when it became more imaginative and personal than true and universal. Luckily in his time the idea of artist as an author of his own emotions was far from existingMost of art in history was anonymous
>>127723243>LOL. This retard thinks this is a philosophy clubAnd do you think art is a self-service consumption of emotions? This is only true for the past 300 years
>>127723243As everyone since the 19th century knows, emotion and form are so inextricably bound in music that they're practically synonymous.>>127723265Didn't Plato say that poets create in a state of divine ecstasy which is recreated in our enjoyment of poetry?
>>127723225>That is, the introverted feeling type works toward understanding the artwork objectively, and the opposite, perhaps extroverted thinking, works toward understanding it subjectively.It is the other way
>>127723276>Didn't Plato say that poets create in a state of divine ecstasy which is recreated in our enjoyment of poetry?Which is exactly why he was against poets while himself being one
>>127723276>emotion and form are so inextricably bound in musicNo. This is only true of romantic music, in which form can serve the purpose of emotional narrative.>>127723265This is a false analogy. You can't compare music to other forms of art, or arts in general.
there are not two types of artists but rather many types of artists. allow me to explain by providing a framework that anon from all walks of life may participate and decide as he is wont to do. first, you have mozart; then, you have schoenberg; and, lastly, you have the others, who more often than not find themselves siding with cia funded operatives like schoenberg.
>hierarchy of thingsDidn't know we had actual imbeciles on /classical/
>>127723321Is everything on the same ontological level? Are you no different than a stone?
>>127723330not sure what this has to do with /classical/ maybe try >>>/trash/ instead?
>>127723321the word things may be used as a means of describing a noun or some such which is difficult in the moment to articulate in a more substantive way
>>127723338Perhaps read more then. Or are you just intimidated to addressing the real meaning of art?Abd if you think classical music is just consumption of emotions (as entertainment) you might as well go to kpop generals
>hierarchy of things
>>127723348>>127723358not sure what this has to do with /classical/ maybe try >>>/trash/ instead?
>>127723368Can you please explain why "hierarchy of things" is an imbecilic notion?
>>127723316There are architects like Bachs and Scarlattis and neurotics like Chopins and Tchaikovskys
>>127723398Because it is meaningless, uninsightful and juvenile.
>>127723279No, no, I mean they start from their natural orientation and work towards a larger appreciation of the artwork by integrating those opposite functions.
>>127723439Ok but can you explain why it is those things? I asked why it is imbecilic and your answer is that it is juvenile. This is not really an answer, is it?But let me tell you this: every perception of reality naturally differentiates between things in an hierarchical manner since the time we are born. Why? Because multiplicity carries different degrees of being. Search for notion of "the great chain of being"
>>127723312A single tone is a shortcut to emotions more effective and direct than colour, shape, words or even acting. It is literally impossible to have music without emotion. Unless you start accepting random noise as music.
>>127723416Not a fundamental distinction.
>>12772341>Chopins and TchaikovskysThose bums don't belong in the same sentence as Scarlatti and Bach.
>>127723468Ah yes
>>127723473My answer was that it is meaningless and uninsightful, not just juvenile. >great chain of beingI couldn't care less about philosophical diacussion on /mu/, let alone christcucked version of it which I reject. Read: evolution, materialism.
>>127723480Form cannot be deduced to a single tone. And any object can evoke emotions, an anetnna may bring more joy to someone than the entirety of music. You are describing your subjective point of view.
>>127723516>Read: evolution, materialism.Lol, of course the smug, condescending poster that refuses to intellectually engage with anything is an atheist materialist.
>>127723516Ah yes, the materialistic notion that everything is fundamentally on the same level which means you must concede that my perception is as true as yours, for since there is no fundamental truth (since everything is merely matter randomly organized) then not even the supposed truth of materialism can be holdWhy then do you disregard other perceptions as meaningless if it's just a matter of different atomic configurations speaking? For in materialism there can't be meaningYou speak of meaningless at the same time you appeal to materialism. You are lost, my child. I recommend that you abstain from expressing your opinions until you are mature and well read
>>127723561I did not say form could be deduced from a single tone, but unmistakably form is made possible from out of the same principle of emotional affectivity.>any object can evoke emotions, an anetnna may bring more joy to someone than the entirety of music.Now you're arguing for something very silly. You're attempting to deny human nature, which neither any scientist in the world or cultured connoisseur will deny the importance of in art. Sure, it is technically possible, that an antenna will emotionally affect someone in the same way as Bach's Mass, but we all know it is practically impossible, and we all know the vast superiority the Mass has in its ability expressiveness. This is not subjective, it is objective human nature.
>>127723567>refuses to intellectually engageI did not refuse to engage in an intellectual discussion, but a demagogical one.>>127723590>the materialistic notion that everything is fundamentally on the same level This statement is nonsensical beyond comprehension. Even if I try to somehow reason with it, then no, in Feuerbach's and even Marx's materialism, human sensuousness is privileged. Anyway, fuck off to your discord, philistine.
>>127723644Anon, are you really pretending that materialism hasn't moved on and changed, and become much more well known in its later forms, since Feuerbach and Marx?
>>127723607>form is made possible from out of the same principle of emotional affectivity.You don't understand what form means.>but we all know it is practically impossibleNo, we do not. You are, again, trying to project your subjective experiences (emotion, by definition) on everybody else.
>>127723644I don't use discord. You must be projecting.>human sensuousness is privileged So there is an hierarchy of things after all?
>>127723663I'm not pretending anything. Materialism exists in many forms and shapes. In political theory Marx's materialism is by far still the most "popular", or relevant. The entire ideology of Lenin was based on Marx for fuck sake.
>>127723678>You don't understand what form means.Form having any meaning at all, its entire justification, depends on the intelligibility of music to the emotions. Sure, you can construct form without harmony that is utterly unintelligible to the emotions, but it's no longer a musical form.
>>127723699>hierarchy of thingsMaybe things such as body parts of your mom, like her tits, ass, mouth.
>>127723715>In political theory Marx's materialism is by far still the most "popular", or relevant. The entire ideology of Lenin was based on Marx for fuck sake.Anon, the average materialist today is not a Marxist, and the average Leftist today is not a Leninist. What fucking world are you living in? No modern scientist looks at Marx as having any relevance to understanding scientific materialism.
>>127723751Who the fuck said anything about scientific materialism? You think Marxism and Leninism simply died out when the leading country in tech and science (China) is basing its ideology on Marxism-Leninism? When the face of materialism in political discourse is Marx? We're not living on the same planet that's for sure.
>>127723735Says the anon who was complaining the notion of ontological hierarchy was juvenileClassic. A materialist who complains about lack of meaning and sense, who accuses others of what he is
>>127723802>the notion of ontological hierarchy was juvenileIt is juvenile. You are ignoring the context where it matters, pseudo-intellectual anon.
>>127723722>depends on the intelligibility of music to the emotionsNo it doesn't.
>>127723834So far I've been called imbecile, philistine, juvenile and pseudo intelectual while objectively addressing your statementsI am amused by the brilliant rhetoric. Why don't you post more frogs and tell me about discord again?
>>127721417Then why can't you play it?
>>127723797China is not marxist. Has the chinese proletariat transcended the life of meaningless work? China is capitalistic
>>127723936i played it once but it was happening in my head and it wasnt really me playing but rather one of many jewish male violinists who goes by the name szerygn henryk szerygn
Eight hours of Schubert's secular choral works, performed by the Arnold Schoenberg Choirhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qv55NOVFj8E&list=OLAK5uy_nbF7vAcMnuyM5ZxbqkSMiRwxAcp3arSvY&index=1
China's ghost towns due to excess production tell everyone china is hyper capitalism
>>127723901>objectively addressing your statementsYou did not address any statement seriously, and neither did I. Privileging is not ranking in christcuck sense, but categorizing.
>>127722943>Music was never, and still is NOT about emotion.holy fucking kek, finally someone agrees with me. people have been trying to school me about music production and songwriting even though they themselves haven't been successful at it. the "inside the score" youtuber, that the /classical/ copypasta links to about how to listen to classical music, also talks about emotions. but the actually successful artists and producers don't usually frame making music as being primarily about emotions or emotional storytelling. a lot of the discussion about classical works is interpretations done by historians and music critics whereas the original composer might not have had much to say it about himself.
>>127723944>China is not marxist.Marxism-Leninism is the foundation of the CCP's official ideology, if you know better, contact CCP and let them know I guess. And China is not capitalist, it's socialist.
>>127724070The notion of hierarchy or chain of being is universal and not exclusively christian. It is common to platonism and vedantic schools tooWhen you say human sensuousness is privileged it IS still ranked above the sensuousness of a worm, for example and you can't escape hierarchy even if you call it categorization. Even if you deny it's ontologically above in category (lol) it's still epistemologically above and therefore following a hierarchy of things
also>"Affections are not the same as emotions; however, they are a spiritual movement of the mind".[11]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_of_the_affections
>>127723955Why are the jews so good at music?
>>127718770Patricia Kopatchinskajahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn6K53W_Nu0
>>127723021yes, older things then to be remembered when they are good. "popular = bad" can apply to modern stuff but is much more rarely the case with classical music or literature. the cream rises to the top.Bruckner, for instance, was highly controversial in his own time. now we have frequent Bruckner threads and he is accepted as one of the greatest composers of all time.
where do you guys think most Chopinfaggots are from?I'm thinking they're Brazilian
>>127724131China is so socialist that those ghost cities that have been built by excess of capitalism are not being used by its people (and obviously not due to low demographics)In socialism there can't be excess production and ghost cities with high demographics. China is not marxist nor socialist.
>>127724240I'm brazilian and I hate chopin and other romantics
>>127724152not long ago and very briefly i had the displeasure of watching a cooking channel where it had displayed some of the best chefs around the world and i thought to myself how strange it must be that from the billions of people who inhabit this land that here and now in front of me are the best chefs in the world that can't be i thought not for a lack of punctuation mind you but rather the mere fact of it had been utterly suspect that it had to have been wrong why if these were the best chefs then there must be a want for talent
>>127724283then Mexicans maybe
>>127724138Chain of being is christian. And generally christianity adopted certain greek ideologies, no shit.>above in category>still epistemologically aboveNo, it's not above or below in any sense. It is a methodological privileging: man is the key to understanding religion, thought, reality. There is no hierarchy you're desperately searching for, let alone here on the topic of this thread. Engaging with your inane spouting was as uninsightful as previously thought.
>>127724248>In socialism there can't be excess productionlol. Yes there can be, what the hell. Especially with China's demographic changes.
>>127724355Chain of being in philosophy is actually typically associated with platonismThis all started when I mentioned emotions were the lowest in the hierarchy of things and you started to complain about the notion of hierarchy of things. You must agree with this notion sincerely as soon as you discern between things like fact, probability and let's say emotion or desire. Personally you "categorize" an experienced fact above, as certain, and an emotion as groundless ephemerality. You do not hold emotions to be on the same level as mathematical proofs
>>127724395You know excess production is the definition of capitalism right
>>127719981her early life section says otherwise. >>127724152they're not
For me, it's Prokofiev's piano sonatashttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYm6Oqn0XNg
Can I get some recommendations for Chopin's music? I've only heard a few nocturnes and want some specific piece recommendations.
>>127724453it is quite literally not
>>127725194>>127725194Nocturnes, Etudes (op. 10 and 25), Preludes, 4 Ballades, Mazurkas, Waltzes, Polonaises, 4 Scherzi, 3 piano sonatas, 2 piano concertos, cello sonata https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVmY1viBKHgenjoy!
>>127725346Thank you. Do you recommend any particular pianist?
>>127725422>Do you recommend any particular pianist?That is the eternal question here, isn't it? Depends how you like your Chopin, but to start off, I'd recommend Ashkenazy (he's recorded everything I named I believe), Pollini, Arrau and Lisiecki for slower pace.Those are in general. Otherwise, and usually, it depends on the work. Like if you wanted to listen to The Nocturnes, I'd probably recommend Hough's (who also has recordings of the Ballades, Scherzos, Waltzes, and misc. late pieces).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOUzOZeaKn4&list=OLAK5uy_nVIvknTjut6n8KPwVVMHD5MF7BsJ9rn40&index=1If you wanted the Four Ballades, the standard recommendation here is Zimerman's masterful performancehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QH8MstNkKgetc etcYou'll get the hang of it. Generally you can't go wrong with just listening to whatever is highly acclaimed, the best recordings and performers rise to the top in classical usually, or at least to some minimum level of fame. For example, let's say you search "chopin nocturnes" on Amazon (in the CD & Vinyls section), pretty much anything you see on the front page or so is gonna be good, or at least worth trying and see how you feel about it.
>>127725422>>127725484anything on the front page or so with lots of ratings*, as sometimes they'll put new recordings on the front page and those will obviously vary in quality
>>127725484Alright, cheers. I'll leave Lisiecki for later in that case. I remember getting a Reinbert de Leeuw for Satie and didn't like the slower tempo and lighter touch. Maybe an acquired taste.>the best recordings and performers rise to the top in classical usually, or at least to some minimum level of fame. For example, let's say you search "chopin nocturnes" on Amazon (in the CD & Vinyls section), pretty much anything you see on the front page or so is gonna be good, or at least worth trying and see how you feel about it.Thanks, that's a great tip.
now playingstart of Brahms: Cello Sonata No. 1 in E Minor, Op. 38https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNAGIirnh5c&list=OLAK5uy_l3QDOsV2JP0NKaLVfceSGCw9IcQyx2GB4&index=2Dvořák: Silent Woods, Op. 68 No. 5, B.173https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZYEmBon78A&list=OLAK5uy_l3QDOsV2JP0NKaLVfceSGCw9IcQyx2GB4&index=5Dvořák: Rondo in G Minor, Op. 94, B. 171https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-xQpNfAbM8&list=OLAK5uy_l3QDOsV2JP0NKaLVfceSGCw9IcQyx2GB4&index=6Suk: Ballade in D Minor, Op. 3 No. 1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kN-gsapGblY&list=OLAK5uy_l3QDOsV2JP0NKaLVfceSGCw9IcQyx2GB4&index=7Suk: Serenade in A Major, Op. 3 No. 2https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_BxQ_symMM&list=OLAK5uy_l3QDOsV2JP0NKaLVfceSGCw9IcQyx2GB4&index=8start of Brahms: Cello Sonata No. 2 in F Major, Op. 99https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ckr2wyc08Yc&list=OLAK5uy_l3QDOsV2JP0NKaLVfceSGCw9IcQyx2GB4&index=8https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l3QDOsV2JP0NKaLVfceSGCw9IcQyx2GB4
>>127720076i've been picking up fiddle and i can only play for an hour before the twisting of my back from holding the instrument begins to hurtmaybe i'm holding it wrong, but i don't think so
>>127708646Not really. Brahms was a proponent of free performance style of his works. Max Fiedler was no time beater as evidenced by the recordings left by him and Brahms approved of the style. Brahms also approved of Huberman (as a child, but still... his reputation precedes him). In addition there's also the 1933 typescript by Walter Blume, which asserts that the Meiningen tradition (Hans von Bülow - > Richard Strauss - > Fritz Steinbech) was relatively consistent with their approach to tempo rubato (push pull style). That typescript is widely recognized amongst many musicologists and some conductors (Mackerras) have attempted to emulate it in their own performances. Of course, there are other conductors who went in the opposite direction, like Weingartner and Walter, who are no less "authentic." Ironically it's Wagner who, despite his noted "free" approach to the composers that came before him, was often autistically detailed and very specific about criteria in performance. You can read about the Ring rehearsals and see just how antsy about every little detail and any deviation from his directions.
>>127726528I'm learning cello and it's been helping me correct my goblin gamer posture although it hurt in the first 2 weeks but if you watch double bass players playing while standing it's really incredible how arched they get
>>127712167Friedman was a freaking geniusHis grand pupil Barda is quite good toohttps://youtu.be/syL0VkxhHZE
>>127724439>You must agree with this notion sincerely as soon as you discern between things like fact, Evidently not.>You do not hold emotions to be on the same level as mathematical proofsMore nonsensical babble. There is no level in this context, existence of mathematical proofs is independent from emotions, and vice versa. Furthermore, mathematics is literally based on an invented, unprovable idea: logic. Whereas emotions have been an inherent part of human nature for millions of years, and possibly for very good reasons. Evolutionary speaking, emotions are more important to the survival of humanity than mathematics. To an actual thinking person, this is already more nuanced than "hierarchy", which is completely arbitrary, uninsightful and meaningless. Walk away.
>>127727698>>127727698>>127727698NEU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSDhxxB_IyQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMEdfGqZDbY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZyx8U2aWck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdOBd_uqcaA
