Was Paul "King Of Jazz" Whiteman right?
>>122574659no, you are not a real musician if you can't improvise, but it's true that jazz gets too self-indulgent and sacrifices song-writing just to make itself easier to improvise over it
>>122574659But that's like having Metal without solos
>>122574693Jazz works best in a big band setting, desu
Jazz is best when it's schizo nigger gobbledygook.
>>122574877just no
based whiteman, fuck that improv shit
>>122574659If you’re a honky trying to steal black music for consumption by other honkies, than yes, he’s correct.
>>122575475He's nigga approved"Paul Whiteman was known as the King of Jazz, and no one as yet has come near carrying that title with more certainty and dignity." - Duke Ellington
Depends on the improv, if all you are doing is swing structures no wonder it'd be boring.
>>122575590lmfao
>>122574659>>122575475>>122575539Paul Whiteman was and still is beloved by anyone with any credibility in the jazz genre, but dismissed by critics because of his race. The surest sign that you're dealing with a (((faggot))) is if they dismiss Paul Whiteman.
>>122575715Is there any collection you'd recommend? Is there any live recording that contains his best work?
>>122575715I don't get why some people seethe so much about white dudes in Jazz. Almost every notable Jazz record had atleast one white dude playing on it.Trying to classify Jazz as specifically and only Black music is a bit weird to me in general, it's music of the white man and the black man working together to make something great and taking influences from one another. It's a genre of racial unity to me where prejudices go out the window for just a moment. Turning it into a political argument and gatekeeping it to be black only is just depressing to me.
>>122574659That era of jazz might as well be a different genre and although his banjo plucking do be based you’re dumb as rocks to apply anything he said to bebop let alone free jazz and fusion
>>122574693>>122574857based
>>122575928Fusion is just Progressive Rock for pretentious fart sniffers.
>>122575915>It's a genre of racial unitydidn't start out that way
>>122574857>let’s just do the same thing for everNo one is stopping you from playing in a big band and also playing in a combo. Spending my Sunday morning telling dumbasses on 4chan that variety is the spice of life
>>122575938You’re a child or an adult with the mental age of a child which would be very sad.
>>122575941I mean, there is objectively much more possibility with a Big Band than with a smaller ensemble.
>>122575950>Dude trying to psychoanalyse a 4chan post on his opinion of gay musicYou’re a homosexual or an straight man with the mannerisms of a homosexual which would be very sad.
>>122575957>repetitionBasado
>>122575939So? It's been a hundred years, it became more integrated over time.
>>122574659Skill issue.
>>122575953That’s not really how it works.Music for a string quarter isn’t just orchestral music with a handicap. It’s like saying if I want a piece of lettuce I should always heat some huge slopping burger
>>122575969So acknowledging the primary contributions the Black community made to the genre at the outset isn't just common courtesy, it's basic history. Of course acknowledging the emphasis on racial unity during the 60s or whatever is an important part of the history too, but so is the other stuff. And even then, you would have to be shoving your head in the sand to pretend that Caucasians made as many contributions as black people. For every Art Pepper, there were two dozen Mal Waldrons.>Almost every notable Jazz record had atleast one white dude playing on it.That's highly debatable and sounds kinda tourist-y imo.
>>122575974You will be assimilated Reed fellaterhttps://youtu.be/qnB7x7CmfBw?si=TeE-HA3rK1TeQy25
>>122575938>fusion is just progearlet retard rockist lmao
>>122575938>Progressive Rock>not the pretentious fart sniffing genre
>>122576012I just mean the idea that any white person playing jazz is somehow trying to steal it from the blacks.
>>122576076There is unironically nothing pretentious about progressive rock. The critics who consider it pretentious are often more pretentious about calling it pretentious than whatever pretentiousness was there to begin with.
>>122576082that's not an "idea", that's bait
>>122576093>There is unironically nothing pretentious about progressive rock.
>>122576047>It's another retard who thinks all prog is Symphonic RockAnd you call me the earlet, kek.>prog musicians barely improviseAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAoh yes my favorite Jazz Fusion band King Crimson, holy fuck KEK
>>122574659>Jazz without improvisationSo what then, watered-down classical? The fuck is the point then? Just go listen to Stravinsky or Shostakovich. Improvisation is the closest you can get to hearing someone think and feel in real time, it's deeply individualized and personal. You take that way and all you have left is some castrated husk that sounds like Snarky Puppy or BBNG but even more bland.
>>122576106Yeah? Your point?
>>122576125King Crimson barely improvises compared to jazz and fusion acts though. You also have Magma and Zappa and stuff, but yeah prog bands by and large don't know how to do it nine times out of ten.>>It's another retard who thinks all prog is Symphonic RockOh so you're just another reading comprehension tard, gotcha
>>122576146>King Crimson barely improvises compared to jazz and fusion acts though.AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHARetard didn't listen past ITCOTCK KEKStop talking about music, you don't understand it. Stick to something that is more suited to you like anime or videogames.
>>122576157I've heard most of their albums including live stuff, their improvisation is extremely compartmentalized. You only think they do it a lot because you're a tourist to jazz. Now do you have any points or are you going to continue to argue like some catty woman?
>>122574659He worked in poppy showtunes and classical songbook material just as much as jazz, of course he'd be biased against improv
>>122576173You don’t understand it has the most listening points, you can’t argue with that. It’s already won. Total defeat my friend. Pack it in. You had a good run.
>>122576227lmao
this is a wise man. not a jazz listener, but when i occasionally hear stuff when it pops up here or there, i like big band stuff. but the bop and post-bop endless improv, going nowhere stuff sucks. total critic-bait wankery.maybe i need to give it more time, but from casual listening it seems there were very good reasons why jazz lost all popular appeal.
>>122576261filtered
>>122576261Ya he was good at making a commercial product.Current jazz sucks as a commercial product.The people who make it only really want it to be a successful enough commercial product that they can live off of it and contain to play it.
>>122576173Sounds like cope
>>122576280This is why its no longer popular
>>122576292Sounds like not an argument
>>122576131So you don't understand Jazz. Not understanding Whiteman while listening to Jazz is like not understanding Bach while listening to Classical
>>122576292Bro sit the duck down lolGo back to your video game boards and grinding cheevos
>>122576303Most popular music is dogshit these days, guess that means jazz retained its integrity then
>>122576350I'm not implying it isn't jazz anymore, just that it would be bad and safe jazz. You can have good music that's bad at being jazz (Kenny G, Laufey)
>>122576125>>122576157Keep honking, bitch
>>122574659Yes. Jazz is best when it’s pop with trumpets im not joking either See My Funny Valentine Chet Baker
>Bill Evans, Chet Baker, the list goes on!
>>122577090Chet Baker was at his best when he played trumpet instead of singing. Also, his best version of My Funny Valentine was the instrumental one with Gerry Mulligan.
>>122577230I disagree, I disagree Gary
I like both but Soft Machine RAPES King Crimson in terms of fusion and improvisation
>>122577322true, it's not even close
>>122577322>>122577367Soft Machine sucks
>>122577476YOU are "gay"
>>122577506YOU are pretentious and faggy
>>122577531>soft machine>pretentious >A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y AND ZEDPlease go back to the kpop general
>>122577476filtered
>>122577282That's fine, at least both of us like ol' Chet, right?https://youtu.be/5L8YflD3eh8?si=YtfWqeEqzGcIsObv
>>122577322Soft machine is a good psychedelic band but you are wrongImprov maybe i'll give you
>>122578523What's KC's most fusion album, Lizard? Third is just better at it.
>>122578812...really poor bait
>>122574693fpwp
>>122577322More like King Cringeson
