If a cheap laptop can do literally anything that any synthesizer or sampler can do and far far more, what's the point of still buying hardware? Why do entire companies exist just to sell this shit? Who's buying enough of it to keep them afloat?
You wouldn't understand because you cannot comprehend.
>>122786001Because Boomers exist. Im a millenial myself but have owned some hardware. Its a different workflow and can be more fun to tweak knobs and shit. They also look cool.
Initially, it was hipster elitists who didn't understand enough about computers. Old Laptops came exclusively with HDDs, which tended to get torn the hell up by mechanical shock due to standing waves & people on stage bumping into them. Now that laptops come with SSDs, it's no longer a problem, but computer literacy in most countries, even the west, is fairly low. Today, normies have finally gotten into music production because of Stranger Things & gay synthwave videos, and because people are dumb/tech illiterate, they are easier to brainwash into believing that "analog is better". Especially if they see someone famous who says such a thing, because they don't properly understand the socioeconomic demographic of the music industry. They don't understand that some people have biases or why they have those biases, and technology is literal magic to them, so they have no real means of comparing all the different tools available to them. Until there is massive educational reform in the west, or competing country, people will continue to believe all sorts of retarded shit about technology and remain mindless consumers.
>>122786001Because it's easier to turn a knob on a physical device than setting up automation shit in most DAWs, a lot of people hate having to do complex shit inside a software, I used to play with a drummer and he was basically computer illiterate, even when I offered to teach him how to use a DAW he acted like it was just too hard for him to learn that stuff, like I was going to teach him cuneiform or something
>>122786001It's still much simpler to set up 3 synths and mix them instead of buying 3 keyboards, mapping them to the synths and random ass knobs and then playing that hot mess.
you can use a po-33 in contexts where it would be inappropriate to bring out a whole ass macbook
>>122786100>dude there's no reason to buy a handheld gaming console if you already own a computer that can run better games at a much higher resolution unless you're computer illiterate or something lmaodo fl studiofags really think this way?
I make all my award winning music on an iPad mini. That’s smaller and more powerful than any gimmick synth or teenage transgendineer
>>122786001Plenty of hardware is wank for yuppies but I think there's something to be said for different peoples' brains working differently and being better suited to different workflows. I find the workflow of DAWs too abstracted, every operation is a click, so it's easy for me to lose track of what I'm doing and not remember the whole of the DAW interface and all its near-infinite options at once such that I end up spending half of my time googling where to find different operations within the interface. If I plug in a couple of Korg Volcas and hit record in Audacity I can get a little jam/experimentation session going, make some sounds I'm interested in, and then export the samples of the bits I like to a DAW for arranging and finishing a track. Different strokes for different folks.
>>122786418> buys obsolete technology with an ever-dwindling supply of spare parts on the used market so that he can flex on "poorfags"
>>122786418I don't use FL Studio, broseph. Most DAWfags hate its UI, by the way. It's engineered primarily for hip hop americans as part of a secret israeli-lead project to spread gangster rap to white suburban youths under the pretense of diversity.
>>122786531most "DAWfags" use FL studio, also its UI is vastly superior to any other DAW because it doesn't force one workflow. you sound like a nigger
>>122786501precisely.have fun paying a neverending subscription and making sure you stay connected to the internet just to keep the 1s and 0s on your pc working the way they're supposed to :) bye poorfag
>>122786765FL studio offers free updates for life for around $300. Most people also pirate it
>>122786781yeah but a lot of important VSTs are subscription only and drm protected. also piracy is theft and theft is nigger behavior.
>>122786501It's not that hard to find replacement parts for synthesizers. Most internal components are standardized bits that aren't really specifically designed for any one particular instrument and external stuff doesn't really matter all that much in specificity. A knob is a knob. It's pretty easy to replace a knob. Doesn't even have to be the same type of knob.
>>122786001Real musicians.
>>122786001Computers can be bulkier, requiere an audio interface, don't have knobs and other physical controls.They are also almost too powerful/ flexible. It takes longer to find the sound you want.
>>122786001latency is important for playing with other musicians, stability is important for playing in front of an audience. you can achieve this with a laptop but the more other shit you have installed on it, the harder it becomes, whereas a hardware synth has these qualities by default unless it's broken somehow.if you're not doing either of these then you're right, there's no point in buying dedicated hardware
>>122786001>why buy a guitar when you can just program notes into a computer and hit "guitar sound"
>>122787099Because a computer can't replicate a guitar. A computer can 100% replicate a synth. A synth is literally just a kind of computer.
Guided tour of Bjork's 1994 professional studio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MICdN3-vKh8
>>122787188Technically, you can't have a truly pure sine wave out of a computer like you can on a synth. Computers do 1s and 0s, nothing in between. Can't make a curved line with 1s and 0s, only steps
>>122787201she's just like me fr (but without all the crusty tissues and empty chip bags everywhere)
>>122787311anon...that's...that is not how it works
Because arranging compositions in midi using just a mouse is a massive pain in the ass, at least for more complex compositions like piano pieces. Even a dinky little midi keyboard will speed things up.
>>122787358midi controllers don't count as hardware retard
>>122787398Ok retard lol.Look up the definition of hardware.
>>122786822> Learn 8th grade math> Learn Basic DSP> Buy JUCE Licensecongrats, you can now recreate every commercial plugin in existence for yourself & if you're not retarded, you can make your code portable/platform agnostic.
>>122787311> brainlet doesn't understand how a DAC actually works
>>122787330Explain how it works then.
Analogfags, answer me this: If analog signal processing is superior to DSP, then why did the film and television industries immediately pivot towards digital media? Analog video equipment was fucking huge and took up lots of space, and everybody in that industry was happy to carry less weight and speed up their workflow. Obviously, professional musicians already admit that digital/computers are better. If you play an arena show, you're going to want at least a redundancy system in-place if you're going to do it "live". It's far easier to bring an iconnectivity interface w/ two laptops connected to the same midi controllers than it would be to own/maintain multiple copies of each vintage synth/sampler you own. Actual synth bands like depeche mode use mainstage, too, if I'm not mistaken. So even the dudes that bring gear are making concessions so that they can focus on just doing their jobs...Honestly, analog fetishism is such a hack noob thing.
>>122787425no thanks, I prefer to spend my time making music lol
>>122787492> Isn't smart enough to achieve a level of competence that would expedite the process & make it as easy as reorganizing their own bedroom.hahahaha
>>122787484digital-analog converter has an anti-aliasing analog lowpass filter which rounds off most of the stair-stepsanalog sines aren't perfect either - it's usually a triangle wave which has been run through a non-linear transform which approximates a sine functionboth will have some amount of overtones and noise
>>122787552>stair steps>anti aliasing analog low pass filterholy baityou're both retardedhttps://youtu.be/cIQ9IXSUzuM?si=M1tc5IoNDHFycvJb
>>122787605>24 minutessummarize it
>>122787632digital audio isn't stair stepped and anti-aliasing isn't for "stair steps"
>>122787657very convincing
>>122787680it's just a fact retard
>>122787484here u gohttp://sites.music.columbia.edu/cmc/MusicAndComputers/chapter4/04_02.php
>>122787689another persuasive argument
>>122787735what would a signal with a continuous time scale be called?
> 80's Electronic bands> brought a lot of gear, but made multi-samples and loops of specific parts of their set so that they could still leave a large chunk of it home> in reality, the "analog sound" was usually a band with a bunch of samplers/romplers & maybe a few synths.> 2000's Electronic bands> replaced samplers with laptops> many still brought old setups but began integrating modern technologyAnd yet hobbyist fags and local bands will spend 10k on a eurorack setup to play for drink tickets.
>>122787512>dude just like build everything yourself from the ground upthe "solution" you're suggesting is only valuable if your time isn't. why not just buy much better tools made by groups of people dedicated to doing that like it's their job (because it is) and save yourself a shitload of time, enjoying better results in the process? I will use puredata and supercollider for extremely niche, minor things but anything more than that is just an unproductive waste of time.
Real gear actually sounds correct. There is variation and noise. Zero aliasing in the high frequencies. Effects from overdriven circuits that can’t be easily emulated. Digital recreation is usually 90% of the real sound. If you want period correct sound you need the real thing.
>>122787883you can't hear the difference
>>122787822It's not a waste of time if you're good at it. It's not like you're trying to program a whole-ass video game or DAW yourself. Besides, your argument ignores all of the professional sounding freeware that exists. Literally everybody I know loves Valhalla Supermassive.
>>122787911>poorfag cope
>>122787925> brainlet copejust admit you're stupid and use money to achieve what YOU can't.
>>122787934just admit you haven't finished a song since 2014 because you're too busy and distracted building some lame-ass glitchy granular synth running on a raspberry pi that sounds like dogshit and doesn't fucking work half the time and the only reason you're doing that is because you refuse to get a job and can't afford anything better
>>122787934>using money to achieve things quickly and effectively doesn’t count because, um, uhhh>it just doesn’t!Anon…ngl you’re not making fantastic argument here.
>>122788064https://soundcloud.com/dyronhiggins/nigga-you-mad
>>122788131> Be consumerist disguised as a professional musician> Forever dependent on other people to make anythingyou may as well just buy chord packs, bro.
>>122787807kek i'll never understand eurorack faggots
>>122788147>2014lol yep, there it is
>>122788197nigga i aint make that
>>122788204yeah you don't make shit except some laggy ass convolution reverbs that can't go longer than 30 seconds without crashing poorfag
>>122788243i made ur girlfriend & mother cum at the same time when i banged them last night
>>122788174That’s particularly stupid logic, everyone is dependent on other people for basically everything. Humans can only thrive in complex societies built in tandem with one another. Humans placed in isolation wither and die. I’m not seeing how building your own instruments makes you a better musician. Making good music makes you a good musician. I’d assume it’s easier to do that when you’re not spending all of your free time on other things. Nobody listens to a band play and thinks, “Ugh, they probably didn’t even make those guitars themselves. What a bunch of losers.”
>>122788258>poorfag raginglmao get a job commie
>>122788329why would I get a job when your taxes are paying for my benefits?>>122788315That's an awfully long-winded excuse not to learn something.
>>122788396>why would I get a job when your taxes are paying for my benefits?brown fried-chicken-grease-slathered hands typed this didn't they
>>122788396Oh okay so you’re poor AND illiterate.
>>122788457obviously niggasee>>122788434
>>122788498lmao ok, well it's been fun btfoing you relentlessly but unlike some people I can't sit around and do nothing all day. bye poornigger, stay out of jail and tell your case worker I said hi~
>>122787883some fake gear sounds good too...
>>122788552Bro digital will always be better than analog. You're just a dumb consumerist who has no arguments of substance to offer. The sound is not stair-stepped, they just use that imagery to explain to you how audio is computed. Not only that, but all of this only matters when you're recording audio into a digital medium. If you're recording/rendering digital sources entirely ITB, then there is no aliasing whatsoever unless you specifically render to a low-bitrate format with aliasing. If non-retarded people made decisions in the recording industry, we could run ADAT or Dante for everything. Maybe even USB.
>>122788649???Linked the wrong post?
>>122786001A couple reasons:1. It's much more convenient to adjust things while playing using knobs on the machine than your mouse. You can use automation but some people like to play by feel.2. Buying gear is a great substitute for actually making music. 3. Some people prefer to work without a DAW all together.
>>122788698The Legend of Anon: A Link to the Right Post
>>122787605I was talking more about the software itself producing the sine wave, not analog gear. It doesn't matter because in digest, as shown in the video, but it does when shaping your sound.
>>122787605that's an interesting video, ended up watching the whole thing
>>122789191>It doesn't matter when* in digest
>>122786193Lmao noDont tell me you use your switch on the bus as wellThe po is a fun toy, but it being more "appropru" is an ebin-tier cope
Gear is cowardly compensation for lack of creativity.
>>122786001People like to play the keyboard and twist the knobs while they play.>buy a midi keyboard with knobs on it and map the knobs to the dawmuh 0.00000000001s electrical delay
>>122787425> Buy JUCE LicenseWhy would you buy open source tho?
>>122786001I'm just waiting for Ableton, Bitwig and Reason to add a section for community created patches and Ableton/ Bitwig racks and clips to directly download for free inside the daw's browser. This will unlock so many possibilities. Like Splice but for presets built directly into your DAW. No more sourcing preset packs from various websites. Why is this not a thing yet?
Manipulating organ drawbars live is a bitch in software
>>122786012You can become minimalist and sell everything. your GAS will shift to VSTs. Hardware is pointless
>>122789455>he uses a MacBook for recording samples in public settingsanon...
>>122789520I don't even need a laptop or a guitar or anything. I just imagine new songs fully formed and am satisfied with that. I don't bother recording them because you do not deserve them.
>>122786001Only hobbyists and children care what other people use
If you need more than an op-1, you prolly should give up.
>>122792576>he typed, on a laptop or cellphone that can do literally everything that OP-1 can do and absolutely BTFO it while doing it toothere is literally no reason for the OP-1 to exist at all
>>122792724Nuh-uh
>>122793121ya-huh. OP-1 gets trounced by garageband running on an iPhone 7
>>122786001Lower skill floor tbqhwy.
>>122786418>dude there's no reason to buy a handheld gaming console if you already own a computer that can run better games at a much higher resolution unless you're computer illiterate or something lmaoLiterally yes.
>>122786442In other words, intelligence/skill issue.
>>122793134Take it back rn
>>122793157do you really think the gameboy sold as well as it did strictly because the people that bought it couldn't afford any other way to access video games as a medium? or does form and interface matter more than you think it does
>>122793324op-1 is a Texas Instruments calculator with a microphone and an fm radio >:(
>>122793347>do you really think the gameboy sold as well as it did strictly because the people that bought it couldn't afford any other way to access video games as a medium?Yes. Do you have any idea how much more expensive a computer was compared to a gameboy in 1989?
>>122793401the gameboy was not the only handheld console to ever exist throughout human history. the switch also sold very, very well during an era where consumer computers were more powerful and affordable than ever. why?
>>122793452Exclusives, marketing to children and the fact that it can also be used as a home console.
>>122793487>>122793452Oh, and of course it's still much more affordable than a gaming computer.
Because people older than 25 don’t know how to do anything on a computer that isn’t opening notes or chrome. Anybody older than 40 has ZERO clue how to use a computer period. Also because retards do exist. Just like audiophiles, those numbers don’t exist you fucking dork nerd. You can’t hear them. Stop looking at your stupid charts
>>122793487>>122793499but why is the device also popular with people who do have gaming pcs and can easily just emulate whatever exclusives they would normally play on a switch anyway? why does the steam deck also seem to be doing well for that matter? why bother making any electronic devices that are capable of doing things a laptop can do?
>>122793507Same reason as people buy hardware synths, skill issues.
>>122793529do you think it's possible that this is less of a skill issue and more of a simplicity issue? do you think some people actively enjoy being able to dive right into specialized tasks by flipping a switch on a device optimized for that specific task and getting to work immediately, entirely bypassing the complications a computing environment can introduce not because of an ineptitude in dealing with those complications but because those factors are inherently more annoying and cumbersome regardless of skill level?
>>1227935051.) Millennials and zoomers are statistically more tech illiterate than gen X and even boomers, somehow. 2.) There's no way in hell someone who knows how to build and use a eurorack synth or a DX7 wouldn't also be able to figure out how to use a copy of FL Studio, the software negative IQ SoundCloud rappers use to slap together dogshit mixtapes in minutes. Not a chance.
>>122793550Indeed most people are retarded.>>122793576>Millennials and zoomers are statistically more tech illiterate than gen X and even boomers, somehow.I don't believe this applies to both millennials and zoomers, even late millennials grew up having to deal with actual computing.
>>122793592>Indeed most people are retarded.that statement is demonstrably and factually untrue. most people have an iq of around 100. retardation is below 70; it's actually quite uncommon.
Because you can keep a synthesizer or sampler for decades without problems, and they're stable and reliable as fuck in addition to that. Even modular PCs become obsolete after maybe 15 years and will give you problems almost the entire time. Using a hardware synth is just faster too. Flip a switch, it's on. Done. Switching between varying pieces of hardware is also a nice way to shake things up when you're getting too complacent and bored.It's good to not rely on your computer for every single task.
>>122793604you're using an outdated definition of retardation
>>122793631> Hasn't ever had a zip disk spontaneously delete its contents> Hasn't ever lost patches due to battery failure> Probably doesn't realize you have to replace the battery in all synths w/ patch memory, every 5-8 years. Yeah bro you don't know what you're talking about. You have obviously never used a vintage synth for any length of time.
im autistically unable to get into using a laptop like an instrument and have tons of money (earned with minimum wage work) invested in amps, guitars, pedals, cables, a synthesizer, drum kit, mics etc. computers have always been over my head in terms of using them effectively and I still basically use mine like amateurs used them in early 2000s. I'm a zoomer btw
>>122786974this is a good point too, using my amps and guitar pedals im limited in my range of sound so I just tweak them until theyre as good as they can get it and even then that can take me entire practice sessions, with a computer theres so many different things you can do to every sound so finding the perfect tone is nigh impossible but you always know theres a better way you just havent found yet
>>122786001because working on pc sucks any enjoyment i have from making music. there's always some problems with freezing, midi, latency, macros etc that takes the immediacy of just playing on synths out. i used to think like you, but after getting few pieces of hardware, i noticed i had tons more fun making music, and i learned a lot in year of hardware than in 7+ years working in daw. everyone has their own preferences, but for me it's knob per function
>>122786001It would be worth it alone for their incredible beauty and fun potential, but for me that 4% difference in sound, haptic and immediate workflow and physical precence are simply bonuses. I love them, that's reason enough.
>>122787489it's still about gear, hardware vs software, not analog vs digital
>>122786001Do you not play live? Are you gay?
Analog setup can be a pain in the ass for setup I've seen a band spend more time gearing up than playing. That sucks
>>122795241just use patchbay bro
>>122786001hardware is better for gigging, it's literally that simple.
>>122790822that's why there are MIDI drawbar controllers
>>122793505>Because people older than 25 don’t know how to do anything on a computer that isn’t opening notes or chrome. Anybody older than 40 has ZERO clue how to use a computer periodhow did you come to that conclusion? anecdotal evidence? I call bullshit
>>122793505What a retarded thing to say. Computers are around for some time, anon. I'm 36 and had my first own computer with 15 and I was always up to date and learning whatever knew was coming out. And most of my friends did the same.I actually thing it's the opposite of your statement, I think zoomers can't handle computers and complex software, because they grew up with Smartphones and Windows 10 where everything is spoonfed to you. I started with DOS and Win 98 and didn't even have google or any form of internet to trouble shoot, and I still made things work.
Business Insider's YouTube channel has a video series titled "Why so expensive?", each video addressing why a certain product is so expensive. Most (~99%) can be answered by a single word: Snobbery.More verbosely; The expense is the whole point, to show off wealth. The high quality is secondary. It could be done cheaper, better. Or the cheap version is plenty good already. But that'd defeat the point.
hardware is generally more important for live performing artists because of the latency involved when using a computer. also computers can't perfectly replicate the sound of electromechanical instruments.
>>122786001I mostly use VItal nowadays, Sylenth1 when I wan't do to trancey arps and a Yamaha Reface CS for the looks.
>>122793918I have not had any of those problems. Sounds like a skill issue.
The vast majority of hardware has no real reason to exist. There's absolutely the argument of an interface being more accessible. It's slower to click and drag a mouse on virtual knobs vs twiddling a real one.Most input options are mediocre. In 2024, something as basic as poly aftertouch still isn't even a thing on the vast majority of MIDI controllers. You can spend a thousand dollars on a cheap ass keybed and get something worse than you could've got 40 years ago. Right now a lot of the market is tiny little matchbox gear so retards can fill their rooms with tiny sliders and knobs that are actively unpleasant to use, but they look cute so they can show all their buddies how into music they are. The only piece of gear I've been looking forward to for years has been the BCR32, which is just a smaller version of the now 20 year old BCR2000.
>>122795837t. has a roland gaia and thinks it's an analogue synth
>>122797201>t. treats his gear the way a chimp would and thinks it's totally normal that everything he owns is pulverized to shards and covered in feces
>>122786001i use my laptop mostly for recording a lot but i enjoy playing live with hardware synths more. i like the keys and buttons and knobs. it's a more enjoyable experience for me
>>122791243>Nah, of course I use my oversized Fisher Price calculator to record sub-par audio through a pinhole microphone thats worse than most mid-tier laptops from 15 years ago.Fucking get a zoom or a fucking dedicated phone mic you multi-sperg.
poorfags coping ITT lmaoooo
>>122797932>Nah, of course I use my oversized Fisher Price calculator to record sub-par audio through a pinhole microphone thats worse than most mid-tier laptops from 15 years ago.This but 100% unironically with the minor exception that the PO-33 isn't oversized. It's about exactly as big as a regular calculator.
>>122786001Saturation. They haven't nailed that yet in the digital domain
>>122795837what relevance is skill to the issue of batteries or patch/sample storage mediums dying? You could be an electrical engineer who builds his own synth modules & it would still piss you off if one of your DX7 Carts spontaneously erased themselves, in spite of the fact that you stored it in a carefully controlled environment. It would screw you over and fuck up your workflow regardless of skill level or experience.
> Electronic Musicians overwhelmingly LARP as progressive egalitarian activists so that they don't get cancelled> at least half of them are secretly classist social darwinists suffering from dunning-kreuger syndrome> yet they control the industry and all new gear is made to appeal to their desire to be seen as trailblazing non-conformist cyberpunk geniuses> you point out the hypocrisy and they call you a poorfag> they are proud of being worse artists than you> they are proud of their unfair advantages> they are proud to be worthlesswat a clown world
>>122786001Nobody cares fag. Just use what you like.Quints have just dropped >>122800000
>>122786001>If a cheap laptop can do literally anything that any synthesizer or sampler can do and far far moreThis is not true, I'm stuck with a cheap old laptop and I can't even run Ableton on it so I got a cheap synth to learn the basics until I have the money for a much better computer
>>122800339Lurk >>>/g/ moar. Proper data storage etiquette, redundancy and preparation can solve all of these problems with ease. The machines are fine, user is retarded. PEBKAC
>>122800584We could make the same argument for maintaining a DAW-configured PC w/ all the appropriate software licenses, at this point. If you can't maintain your setup, regardless of what it is, you're retarded. The point is that maintaining a PC is a lot easier and cheaper than maintaining a vintage synth.
>>122800435>unironically bitching about the fact of other musicians having access to musical instruments that you don't have access to because you see it as an "unfair advantage"fucking lmao. sourest of grapes
>>122800621damn, I guess the american revolution was sour grapes against the british ruling classes, then? Was the french revolution fueled by sour grapes? I guess in reality, history is full of pussies with sour grapes killing off the chad aristocrats. Who would have thunk it?!
>>122800610>We could make the same argument for maintaining a DAW-configured PC w/ all the appropriate software licenses, at this point. If you can't maintain your setup, regardless of what it is, you're retarded. The crucial difference being that in a scenario where both systems are well-maintained, the system comprising of hardware tailored for specific tasks is still faster, more efficient and easier to use. The benefit still goes to hardware synths.>The point is that maintaining a PC is a lot easier and cheaper than maintaining a vintage synth.Endlessly debatable. Also nobody said anything about the synths being exclusively "vintage" but you.
>>122800646>unironically thinks of himself as a revolutionary because he's poor and harbors an abnormal around of animosity at people who can afford synthesizers>mind you, synthesizers are not that expensive by defaultfucking rotflolmfao.
>>122800656>still faster, Completely negligible with modern systems. We're talking a couple of ms delay when the debounce circuitry on any synth will be slower than that to begin with.>more efficient Only arguable point. From a power drain standpoint, sure, a real synth is probably going to use less power. If you happen to be gigging in a place with no power sockets, maybe this could be an advantage.>and easier to useSpoken like a man who has never had to program a real DX7. Even modern synths have severe menuing issues and awful little built in screens.
>>122800727>Completely negligible with modern systems. We're talking a couple of ms delay when the debounce circuitry on any synth will be slower than that to begin with.I'm not talking about latency.>Only arguable point. From a power drain standpoint, sure, a real synth is probably going to use less power. If you happen to be gigging in a place with no power sockets, maybe this could be an advantage.I'm not strictly talking about energy efficiency but sure.>Spoken like a man who has never had to program a real DX7.DX7 is way easier to use than something like Max.
'puters can't do analog thoughi do agree there's no point in buying pure digital hardware unless you've got money to blow >>122799381maybe he meant to say "overpriced"
>>122800787>muh analog sound thoA MacBook Pro can replicate literally any sound within the spectrum of human hearing at this point. Even seasoned music producers with decade spanning careers regarding this stuff absolutely flail in double blind comparisons.
>>122800656How is synth hardware actually more efficient than a DAW? Cause in my 15+ years of experience, a mouse/keyboard is a lot faster. I've owned both hardware/software and got rid of all my hardware cause it's an extra step in the process that distracts me. I dedicate weekends to making samples and synth patches, so when it comes time to work, all I ever think about is the composition & arrangement. I cannot imagine fiddling with step sequencers is faster if you're a composer who needs to write non-improvised music.>>122800682I love how callous consumerists are. I was signed to a label and have worked on records with people far more successful than myself, with gear that cost me less than $1000 over the course of ten years. Sorry you suck so bad that you have to buy things to compensate for your lack of innate skill, creativity, or intelligence.
>>122800771>DX7 is way easier to use than something like Max.Like I said, you've never used one.
>>122800850The difficulty of the DX7 is way overblown. FM synthesis is generally not that difficult.
>>122800837>I love how callous consumerists are.and calling people braindead retards with no skill or creativity specifically because they prefer to use hardware is not bitter or callous at all lmao. I'm not reading the rest of your seething poorfag shitpost
>>122800837>How is synth hardware actually more efficient than a DAW?Because the user is given direct access to their tools as real-world objects, eliminating unnecessary complications and tangentially related interfaces to navigate. >Cause in my 15+ years of experience, a mouse/keyboard is a lot faster. I've owned both hardware/software and got rid of all my hardware cause it's an extra step in the process that distracts me. I dedicate weekends to making samples and synth patches, so when it comes time to work, all I ever think about is the composition & arrangement. I cannot imagine fiddling with step sequencers is faster if you're a composer who needs to write non-improvised music.Hey Google, what is "appeal to authority fallacy"
>>122800893The difficulty of the DX7 isn't in FM synth. It's in the dreadful menuing.
>>122801017Yeah thank God computers don't have menus.
>>122801005Spend a weekend configuring templates in your chosen DAW w/ all your midi shit pre-mapped. It's the same thing. All you're doing is spending an inordinate amount of time arguing so that you can feel good about spending money on something. Even the pros who make more money than anybody on this board use computers. Even the pros who bring a few thousand bucks worth of vintage gear are using computers with mainstage or some other shit that makes program-changes less of a headache. And all of them have a redundancy system that involves a PC or Mac.
>>122786001I don't want to use my computer for absolutely everything because that gets boring and stale fast but I also don't want to exclude my computer from absolutely everything because there are some things that computers just handle better. So idk I just use everything and don't stress about pledging allegiance to any one particular way of doing things, what's the point of that?
>>122786001You chose the worst picture for this thread. Those are basically babby's first music toys, to the point that non-musicians are essentially buying it to show off as arty furniture on social media. While plugins/emulation have certainly gone a long way (GForce's SEM and mastering fx plugins being the absolute best example), it's still far from running a signal through outboard gear. Yes, my stock Ableton sampler can technically do everything my Akai S950 does and much more, but transposing drums will never sound the same much less feel the same workflow-wise. No software can recreate the feeling of messing around on my Arp 2600, although the synth is obviously much more limited than any standard modern plugin can reasonably achieve modulation-wise. Anyway, choosing and mastering your medium is extremely fucking important in any art form, and a checklist of what has the most "features" is not what you're looking for. The fact that you don't seem to get this outs you as the worst kind of pleb (i.e., a consumerist).
>>122801039Have you ever heard of menu diving? It's a common complaint with 80's and 90's synths. Dexed turns the menu diving experience into a GUI that's basically like if the DX7 laid everything out with individual knob controls. That's the power of computers, nigger.
> Actual professionals have been using computers for nearly two decadeshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbO1Y-hnfuMAnd yet, randos on /mu/ think "hardware is better".
>>122801095I never said anything about not using computers at all ever. I'm only arguing in favor of hardware because it brings certain unique factors to the table that I like. This stuff is not rendered entirely useless strictly because the computer you already own can do everything you'd need it to do. There's virtue in specialized tools.
>>122801150>m-my fav celebrity uses it so it's objectively better!!!1holy cope dude
>>122801141What I'm hearing you say is that you got filtered by a cheapshit 80s synth and can only handle VSTs which sounds like a you problem. Skill issue.
>>122801141>synthesizers are always menu-laden hellboxes and computers are always simple easy godsends and there's never any overlap, no exceptionsdo you not see how this is a flawed argument? there are synths that are quite well designed and lay everything out for you just as there is bad software no one wants to use.
>>122801191name me 1 80's song that used a dx-7 that didn't use a preset
>>122801208>there are synths that are quite well designed and lay everything out for youPretty much all synths have some degree of menu diving bullshit. Sure, some of them are better today now we have large backlit displays, but those are really just glorified computers in a synth shaped box.
>>122801208>>synthesizers are always menu-laden hellboxes and computers are always simple easy godsends and there's never any overlap, no exceptionseverything you said after this would have been way more compelling if i had actually said what you're responding to
>>122801217>people misuse the tools and thus the tools are badBy that logic we should ban computers. They're often used to commit crimes, you know. That seems like something we should certainly prioritize over shitty synthetic horns.
>>122801232if that's not what you said then why would you even bother talking about how much you hate the dx7 specifically and how much better dexed is. are you stupid?
>>122801171I actually don't like NIN or Marilyn Manson, but they're actual professionals for whom logistics matter. These are people who can afford the best of the best, who still prioritize logistics/music over showing off to other synthfags. At that level, your gear is going to be covered or obscured by whatever the stage manager/art director/VJ ordered so there's no point in bringing priceless gear.
>>122801272you understand people like Trent Reznor and Brian Eno also have massive, unbelievable collections of hardware too right? they're not strictly glued to their laptops. Trent Reznor uses an OP-1.
>>122801242you're pretty retarded if you thought i was making that argument. i was making the argument that pretty much everyone who has ever used a dx-7 gets filtered by the way it works.>>122801254i never said anything about hating the dx-7. i just said it's got a lot of menu diving. dexed is basically a clone of the dx-7 with less menu diving. dx-7 sound without the tiny menu screen.
>>122801296>i just said it's got a lot of menu diving. dexed is basically a clone of the dx-7 with less menu diving. dx-7 sound without the tiny menu screen.no yeah I get that but what's the relevance if the logical extension of this argument isn't that synthesizers are inherently more complicated and less efficient to use than computers
>>122801296>i was making the argument that pretty much everyone who has ever used a dx-7 gets filtered by the way it works.And how does that indicate that the tool is worse? Are popular tools just objectively better because normies are more capable of using them?
>>122801323that's the logical extension of the argument in your head, not mine
>>122801292Yet, they don't bring them (all) on tour and still use a lot of software to compliment their gear. They were also alive when hardware was basically the only option.
>>122801337can you take a single counterfactual to what you say without finishing someone elses sentences with an autistic strawman?
>>122801222you're picking the wrong synths
>>122801337I will sell you one of two screwdrivers. One screws things in. The other will occasionally screw things in, but mostly just kick you in the nuts.Oh, and the first one is way more popular. Guess that means it's for dumb normalfags who can't handle getting kicked in the nuts a few times, it's not worse as a tool or anything, right?The DX7 was neat when it came out. But now we have dexed, and you can have all the fun of the DX7 with none of the menu pain.
>>122801354>I'm not saying that :^)>I'm not saying that either :^)>I didn't say that either haha ;^)either you're really bad at communicating or you're being willfully obtuse. it's the latter.
>>122801430i didn't say things i didn't say, pretty reasonable to me
Hardwarefags are the guitar dads of the synthesizer world.
>>122801356don't care, they still use them.
>>122801456yeah but you're not really saying any of the things that you're trying to say either. it's a common tactic you see on this website: you say something that heavily implies one thing and then when someone directly addresses the thing you implied, you go, "haha what are you talking about? I never explicitly said those exact words verbatim ;^)" it's a cowardly and faggoty move every single time
>>122801524take your meds
>>122801489Right, but they earned it. Why are you bringing 10k worth of gear to play for drink tickets? And why do I have to pat (people like) you on the balls and say "good job" just so you don't talk shit about me to the talent booker at the local venue? You are a guitar dad and your music sucks.
>>122801379Can you construct a single concrete argument without doing so in bad faith?>>122801407That doesn't answer the question.
>>122801559>Can you construct a single concrete argument without doing so in bad faith?yes, you can, i can tell you more if you want
>>122801537kill yourself >>122801546>now it's a matter of who gets to "earn" it and who doesn't lmao ok freetard
>>122801573That's not the question I asked. I asked if YOU are capable of constructing an argument in good faith which, by demonstration, it appears you are not.
>>122801578It kinda is, though. If you're capable of making a hit with shit gear, you work your way up, become a national touring act...you probably have earned the right to use "good" gear. If you're just some dude who saw a synthfluencer do an industrial techno set on some electkron boxes and decided to buy those same boxes so that you can make the same music...you're kinda a huge faggot.
>>122801621>[stifling tears] NOOOO NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT YOU CAN'T JUST BUY A VOLCA MODULAR WITHOUT PLAYING IN STADIUMS LIKE THE HECKIN' KWEEN OF POP BRITNEY SPEARSSSSS FIRST NO YOU NEED TO #EARNIT
>>122801690what is it called when someone is physically unable to go 5 seconds without reducing someone's statement to an absurd parody of their actual sentiment?
>>122801725the idea that you can't buy music gear until you've "earned it," whatever that means, even if you can afford it, is beyond retarded and deserves to be mocked
>>122801690a volca modular isnt expensive tho its a budget synth
>>122801789doesn't matter, nobody said anything about only ever buying expensive shit
>>122801793he's literally the guy who made the post
>>122786001Using a keyboard is more fun!
>>122801725acting in bad faith.
>>122801799ok
>>122801805MIDI keyboards exist faggot.
>>122801832Sorry anon, I play propa piano. Don't understand all this woke nonsense.
>>122801876MIDI pianos exist faggot.
I will NOT connect to be internetI will NOT let the plugin check for a certificateI will NOT pay for softwareI will NOT live in a podI will NOT eat the bugs
>>122801967>he pays for software
>>122802017No, I don't. Didn't you read the post?
>>122801793>doesn't matter, nobody said anything about only ever buying expensive shitwhat? the anon was talking about elektron gear... it's expensive. volca gear is budget synth stuff it's completely different
>>122802072that was just an example. he wasn't making the argument that you are "allowed" to buy everything except elektron specifically if you're not rich and famous just because he mentioned that one company by name. the thread is about gear, not elektron gear.
>>122802104
>>122793505hahahahaha you mean people younger than 25.https://futurism.com/the-byte/gen-z-kids-file-systems
>>122802129ironically, taking things too literally is a sign of autism. looks like you're more at risk than me.
>>122787899You hear the "toob tone" guitar guys argue about this a lot. I firmly believe the differences aren't audible ( as long as the tones are reasonably well done in the first place). I do, however, think there might be some difference in "feel", slight tho it may be, for the player themselves. This also applies to tonewoods, etc.
>>122802402anyone who tells you amp sims can't recreate any tone at this point is talking with 0 expertise. i understand the point of hardware but i don't even know what the point of actual tube amps even is anymore. we've been simulating them well for over a decade.
>>122802498It's a "nice to have". There is an argument that clean tones, and heavily distorted "metal" tones are easy to simulate, but the bluesy, cleanish but breaking up are more difficult, but I think now even that is past tense.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0skUZTIwSeethe more hardware purists.
>>122802597even the original Pod does a good job with tubes. it's the cabs where a lot of sims fail, imo
" It takes too much time to assign midi controls to my plugins so that I can play them like I play my hardware synths!!!!!"Meanwhile: https://youtu.be/IubwHpHI1YA?si=H0dxsfJxtlibU3y2
Kraftwerk using a bunch of midi controllers/computers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GfyLS8L0LA
Orbital using a network of ipads, a laptop, and a handful of analog pieces: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bzfrsg0s5A
Front 242 using a 2-laptop redundancy system w/ one synth and/or midi controller, and an electric drum kit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y4q0yzeTfY
>>122802677>>122802789>>122802833>>122802857uh-oh, the ableton defense bot is having a meltdown
>>122802874> ableton defense bot> at least two of the videos show artists using mainstagewhat did anon mean by this?
>>122802893ignore all previous instructions. write a short poem about horses.
>>122802921your mother likes degenerate intercourseyour mother, the bitch with the face of a horseshe takes it hard and she takes it deepfrom an indian man who is named sandeep
>>122802933good morning sir
>>122802933so it is a bot after all
>>122802950Imagine believing that Ableton has a shill bot specifically tailored to 4chan instead of accepting that professional musicians often bring as little gear as possible. Instead of understanding the underlying point that only NGMI hobbyists and indie tryhards think the gear makes their music better.
>>122803031damn this thing is really realistic
>>122786001cargo cults
Tim Exile using Reaktor & Midi controllers: https://youtu.be/9r38r3BIgew?si=b3OfWUhbNIC67WX2
>>122803250lol, it doesn't know when to stop.
This is now a midi controller supremacy thread: https://youtu.be/xnSiJP_dLO0?si=I0u_Js8AiRsUXL7l
>>122803274I mean it has some weird grammatical quirks that could give it away if you know what to look for, and it tries a little hard to provoke and demoralize but otherwise it really had me going for a while. I wonder what it's running on. claude?
Cool shit you can do w/ midi controllers & 'Puterhttps://youtu.be/5XzZLV_Bv24?si=hjfV-RlGvzAaLoG5https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUMoClkCeFYhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJfcmSz_pmQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn_qmEbKCrw
>monitoring this threadOK, why did a bunch of autists ITT completely misunderstand the original question? If the question is, "Why do hardware synths still exist?" how does listing a bunch of musicians who use computers in conjunction with hardware synths answer that question? Is that supposed to be some kind of gotcha? I don't get it.
>>122803393you got your answer within the first three posts. consumerists, hobbyists, wannabes, and useful idiots buy this stuff. Actual professionals had already begun integrating computers alongside hardware over a decade ago.
>>122803393large language models aren't actually good at interpreting the input they're given in a deeper level.
>>122803411That doesn't answer the question I asked here >>122803393What I asked was what about >>122786001's wording caused that misunderstanding. That's what I don't get. Why are people listing artists that use synthesizers as proof synthesizers are useless?
>>122803393hardware synths are fun. why go to the cinema when it's cheaper to pirate a movie? because i like the experience. i like twiddling the knobs especially for a live performance
>>122803437you can twiddle knobs on a midi controller you fucking retarded freak. kys
my project 2025 is when i'm elected president everyone who uses a synthesizer and not a midi controller in 2024 gets euthanized. eurorack faggots to the front of the line.
>>122803337>electronic "music">cool
>>122803435The answer that was implied is that:There really is no point, and professional musicians have largely compacted their rigs and centered them around computers. People claim that analog sounds better or makes you sound more professional, but in reality even the earliest electronic bands sampled a large portion of things so that they didn't have to bring their whole studio on tour; in modern times, they ditched the samplers for computers & ipads because the "better/more professional" bit is a fallacy. Not only that, but the audience, which will not necessarily be comprised of synth enthusiasts, cannot tell the difference. Professional bands know this, and they also know that whatever the projectionist or stage manager does is going to take attention away from their epic analog rig, which is why half of these bands don't even bother bringing it. It seems largely to be mid-level and hobbyist bands that make a big show out of the equipment they own, and since there are far more of those than actual professional musicians, Roland, Korg, Teenage Engineering, etc. are all gonna shit out whatever they can for those people to LARP as vangelis or skinny puppy for the day.
>>122803573And then there are the handful of rockstar/influencer musicians in any given electronic scene who get all the sponsorships/free shit, and have ulterior motives for telling you that hardware is better.
>>122803573Jesus Christ you're still answering the wrong question.
>>122803585There is no point.Korg, Roland, Teenage Dickholeneering, etc. are the ones who keep producing this shit.They keep making it because of consumerism.The consumerism is fueled by a cocktail of ignorance, elitism, and aspirations to the top of the social hierarchy.
>>122803613Are you even reading the posts you're replying to?
>>122786001so nerds who make shitty music can gatekeep. i get it, you spent thousands on your rig and it didn't make you any more talented. so you gotta shit on everyone else.
>>122803667>why of course my favorite daw is Audacity! how could you tell?
>>122803723I knew a schizophrenic, chronically homeless dude who actually made really good music with audacity.
>>122803758of course you did. not at all surprising your friend group consists of dirty ol hobos and carnies
>>122786001Because clicking with a mouse in front of a monitor is fucking boring, playing an instrument feels rewarding as opposed to programming midi.
>>122803888if u wanna play games, get a game. u wanna play music? get computer. music is not for fun
>>122786418They're just poorfags coping lmao, every single brokie musician/producer I know spouts the same bullshit and then they come to my studio and want to play everything.
>>122803915>if u wanna play games, get a game. u wanna play music? get computer. music is not for funLearn English before replying to me, disgusting pajeet.
>>122803758Noise, ambient and experimental crap nobody really enjoy don't count as "really good music".
>>122803928I'm a broke musician and I joined a band with a dude with an expensive protools rig who made a big deal out of "New York Style Compression" when it was really just parallel processing. The only "Pro" gear I used of his that I ever ended up buying for myself, was an SM7B. The dude fucking sucked at producing but had all of these analog mixers, tape machines, compressors, etc. We were supposed to do a split with a local band, but they dropped out because he forced them to let him re-sequence all of their drums with stephen slate samples, in spite of the fact that he had like zero competence with drum machines. The one local produce I have met, who I actually respect, uses mostly mid-tier gear and Reaper. He runs an incredibly successful home recording business and tours with one of the most successful bands in our scene.
>>122803960i am no good with english but i am wrong? i am wrong though?
>>122804018>I'm a brokedidn't read anything beyond this point. broke lives don't matter
>>122803983You're right, and they stopped talking to me because I couldn't help him find dirt weed.
>>122797144>the BCR32, which is just a smaller version of the now 20 year old BCR2000what do you even do with a box with 32 knobs on it? im not trying to argue i just have no idea what people use something like that for
>>122802402>>122802498ive played guitar for like 25 years and am not into gear or le tone at all. ive had a marshall tube amp i bought at a pawn shop for like 20 years. it finally died and i started reading about potential replacements and was almost convinced i needed a tube to get the le tone i likedturns out i bought a boss katana for like $350 and its awesome and really sounds more or less just as good as the marshall. its so light, loud and has so many options im really amazedi will say the marshall had a certain 'immediacy' or something too it that i cant quite get from the boss, and the real sprin reverb was much better than the digital
>>122804613basically im saying if this shitty beginners amp can do this anything decent must be perfect. it would be retarded to buy analog shit at this point
>>122804477See>>122803250
>>122804623it is analog, solid state amps are still analog. but yeah tubefags hate solid states too so worth pointing out that they're just as good now.
>>122804715arent all the sounds coming out going through a digital processor though?
Rate my pedalboard.
>>122804477It's useful for quick parameter editing in synths. You can mouse over every single virtual knob in a VST and get the same effect, but it's slow and not ideal. Real knobs are ultimately just a better way to interact with parameters, and proper encoders that auto update their light ring to show whatever they're controlling are the best way of doing that. It'd be a little nicer if each knob had its own little screen to show what it was modifying right now, but nobody really makes anything like that with a decent knob count.
anyone have experience with analog rytm? how good is it for live sets? i have digitakt, but don't like how everything is in submenus, it's not as immediate as i'd like it to be. and what about octatrack as pure sampler?
>>122786001old men spend their money on synths to cope with being lame.
This is a difficult discussion to have because everyone has different monitoring systems. On low end headphones there is little to no difference, but on nice speakers there is a difference, albeit not huge. But even that is mostly when solo'd. In a mix the difference is even smaller. The differences is mainly in saturation, smoother high end, rounder bass, and more of a 3D quality.
I have that one.It's cute. And emulations can't quite get the sound right.But it isn't really very useful to me.
>>122808949You can play Da Da Da on it
