Why did Industrial never "succeed" as a genre to the same extent as metal, punk or goth which all still successfully have a large subculture and following today?Let me explain myself.Nobody expected Throbbing Gristle to top charts. They were a kind of anti-music performance artist group.Also I'm not claiming Industrial is entirely dead.But in the 80s a number of Industrial acts did have good popular mainstream success - Nitzer Ebb, Front 242, Skinny Puppy etc. Industrial - or at least more danceable EBM side - had a popularity similar to that or punk or goth in that era, would have music videos on TV music channels, get radio time, would be the opening acts touring alongside still world famous 80s bands.It was seen as *the* music of the future. Of the 21st century.Nine Inch Nails was obviously very big in the 90s. Industrial metal already existed before them, but Rammstein also had mainstream 90s success.If not as big as goth or punk, there was at least in the 90s still a sense that Industrial, as a subculture, would flourish onwards.Then comes the mid 2000s and the release of The Matrix, with it's industrial informed aesthetics, and after that we start to see the style fall into being labelled as cringe and too weird for normal people to listen to. It's for freaks, kids who get bullied, school shooters, simple as.At first I thought: lots of industrial acts have made use of aesthetics and fashion meant to mimic or copy fascistic or militaristic aesthetics.Almost all Industrial bands firmly reject right wing ideology, but like the fashion for fashion's sake, or as shock value, or utilising the aesthetic to subtly mock it (Laibach are a good example of this).Could this be the barrier? No. The Sex Pistols and Siouxie Sioux literally wore swastikas and it didn't get their genres cancelled.So why did it fail? Can anyone explain?
Btw, I'm in my mid 20s and enjoy the entire spectrum of Industrial sub-genres and spin offs, but it's quite sad to go to a gig and for the audience to be 95% made up of 50 - 60 year old men.It's great they still love the music they grew up with, but when there's no youth in the crowd, a genre will die.
I refute that Industrial.is a "dead" genre. There are plenty of Post Industrial acts out there. Check out Tympanik Audio. Lots of artists. Not saying their "mainstream" but Industrial never was. Only act that ever achieved that level.of success was Nine Inch Nails because Reznor warped Industrial to appeal to the masses. Bands like Skinny Puppy or Frontline Assembly were never going to achieve massive mainstream success And to "fail" doesn't a genre have to have a goal? What was the end goal with Industrial? To be subversive and edgy? Or are we just talking about money.
>>122862612>And to "fail" doesn't a genre have to have a goal?It failed in the sense that it declined significantly in popularity since the 80s and 90s while other genres like punk and goth and metal retained their appeal to a greater extent.Like I said, a lot of people assumed industrial dance music would be what all dance music was like in the 21st century. Then again those were the same people who assumed the world would be like blade runner and we'd all live in slums on Mars by now.
because we're in a service economy
>>122862723butifel
>>122862518>Why did Industrial never "succeed" as a genre'Cause you need to be encultured enough to understand this kind of music, and most people are incapable of that; most of them only listen to music solely as a background noise, not actually digging the author's reflection/lyrics/musicianship behind.
theres no industry or industrial anymore, cant relate to any of that. nobody knows how to operate a hammer. everybody is a useless mcdonalds wagie. bassically >>122862723
>>122862518Maybe it's just me but industrial was way more interesting when it was all about bands like Cabaret Voltaire, SPK and Throbbing making this sort of unsetting anti-music that defied what could even qualify as "music" at all. Then it turned into a genre and it became all about making noisy mechanical turbo-edgelord music that I feel didn't really age that well past the 80s-90s (when being edgy was cooler than it is now). I guess it just had its run until people stopped caring about it.The only part of industrial that really took off is EBM and the more related to techno. I feel that field really let people experiment with a more interesting taste of industrial that is both atmospheric and moody but with a danceable touch. I guess if you want modern industrial you have to look for people who directly make industrial flavored techno or perhaps more experimental post-industrial artists that take some elements from the genre and mix them with other stuff (like COIL or Psychic TV did).
>>122862518Beacuse it gives people anxiety. Also it gets really annoying after a while.
>>122862518I guess because mainstream industrial gets categorized as "synth"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzGnX-MbYE4
>>122862518Because it’s gay coded
>>122862518Realistically, because the vocals are usually garbage (too heavy accents, out of tune, or annoying) or the synthlines sound the same.
Post me some indutrial that sounds like this https://iniofficialmusic.bandcamp.com/track/map-01-guts-openinghttps://iniofficialmusic.bandcamp.com/track/map-05-meatpaintI'll wait.
>>122866264wk [es] - Chronos EPTerrorfaktTest Dept.
Rammstein >
imagine how much of a shitty a genre has to be that The downward spiral and Pretty hate machine are considered masterpieces
Because it became too unfocused grey area of a genre / culture. It's more like a mindset that spread and got attached into other things, when you ask anyone what industrial is you always tend to get a different answer.
the biggest industrial hit of all time is literally the dmc3 theme btw
>>122862518after the 90s, the rise of buttrock nu metal made industrial more or less redundant/irrelevant for npc normie retards
>>122862518Because industrial fans were posers and edge lords
>>122862518virtually everyone involved with it that pioneered the genre moved on to other genres and there was never enough new blood to take its place. most bands that stuck around just became shitty generic metal bands like Ministry, i guess like >>122869406 said, they either rode the nu-metal wave or died. except for Cabaret Voltaire who decided to make shitty generic house music for some reason. it also didn't help that Reznor packaged industrial into easily consumable pop music and ruined it for everyone else. that's where a lot of the cringy edgy "school shooter industrial" came from.
>>122866337>wk [es] - Chronos EPThis was pretty good. What Test Dept album am I suppose to listen to btw? I've listened to two now and one was a sporky spoken word "classical" shitfest, and the other is some folky bagpipe nonsense.
Martial Industrial has no good albums.
>>122869969Correct.
>>122862518"industrial music for industrial people" is fundamentally a critic of popular culture. beyond that, its sexual character would never be mainstream - maybe in 40 years well get there tho. and then, its an umbrella term covering to much that isnt necessarily related in any sensible artistic fashion.industrial music is basically a 'scene' of people clawing their way into music and then clawing a life from the industry their own way. A tears for fears sound collage is just as noisy and beat ladden as a skinny puppy song. rammstein is i guess some weird crossover between stadium music and festival experience, not a fan so i dont know. The Matrix is dystopian/fetish gear, which might harken back to OG industrial and trying to be freaks - but freaks literally are outcasts, thus not popular.as far as failing, its been as much a success as it needed to be. go buy something from a martin atkins auction for the post punk industrial museum
>>122869917Test Dept - Beating the Retreat
There are still great things being done in the genre. Just have to find it. https://youtu.be/eEOxYLrrbm0?si=W_Hbr8xoDPhkfiIF
Wtf are you talking about? Industrial didn't "fail", it's just not as mainstream in the states as it is in europe. Germans love everything goth, industrial, techno, etc. There's also a pretty sizeable underground scene w/ touring bands all over the US. Whether you want EBM, Industrial Metal, Synthpunk, Harsh Noise Wall, Rhythmic Noise, Noise Rock, Sound Collage, Plunderphonics, Free Improvisation, etc...you can find it. All the big festivals happen in Europe/Canada, though.
>>122870687is canada in europe?
>>122870715In a few millennia, if the continents should drift together and merge as such...
>>122870687that's not really saying much though, every niche subgenre can survive in the post-label social media landscape but none of it can stand with the classics
Industrial became an aesthetic choice rather than a genre. Its a costume artists wear for a performance or an album.
>>122862518>anti-music performance artist groupWow they sound like insufferable faggots
>>122870939True, but try telling the scene that. As long as it gets goth chicks into clubs and sells drinks/drugs, it's all good. Nobody really cares if Youth Code or Mvtant are actually as good as Mentallo & The Fixer or Skinny Puppy, they care about the money/drugs/social status.
>>122871028no.they sounded like awesome faggots and pin-up girls.fuck youare you for sale?does fuck you sound simple enough?
>>122871402"the scene" is completely ephemeral, the music is what lasts
Industrial music fans are all either subsumed into goth or metal subcultureEver since post-industrial and dark ambient, the goth association aroseEver since industrial metal and KMFDM, metalheads got into it
>>122869969bitch
>>122871786also bretty good but it only tips its toes into martial stuff, before his later stuff
>>122871739music is made by people. unless you are a solo artist with hired guns, the relationships you have with fellow music makers is the scene.
>>122871818not even the context of what scene means in this conversation you dumb navel gazing faggot
>>122862518Easy answer for all you wanna be music critics getting high off your off farts:Industrial came about and was about the physical world of corruption, decay, slavery monotony and repetition.When the world became mostly digital, the world shifted to electronic formats.Sounds like gears stripping or steam pipes are unknown to the average drone living in the 2020s - where someone in the 80s, 90s would still encounter them every day on their travel to and from work in the city.Retards.
>>122872165actuallyi brought up scenes in this conversation first>>122870230you piss drinking motherless shitstain
>>122872273retard takethanks DR who
>>122872273This is completely contradicted by the fact that industrial started focusing on computers since EBM and stuff.BTW, who here is a fan of futurepop? That's the good stuff. When will that be brought back
It scattered.>>122868310/thread
It was never a real genre.Throbbing gristle birthed power electronics and more broadly «noise», which still exist but are pretty uninteresting and limited to edgelords. DAF birthed EBM which still exists but is one outdated 80’s flavor among others.NIN/ministry/foetus/killing joke birthed «industrial» metal or synthpop metal, but it was only a 90’s trend from which only rammstein managed to survive and they’re cringe boomers.
It stopped being considered a «genre» when Depeche Mode called itself «industrial» on Black Celebration - merely reducing it to a gimmick and novelty flavor of Emu sampler banks. Ministry and NIN banked on that sort of fraud which already existed before them (thanks also to skinny puppy i guess)
>>122862518Regarding that pic (front 242), i see a big LARP about a cyberpunk future, but now that we are in real cyberpunk dystopia, i can’t imagine people listening to the LARP.
>>122862518>Almost all Industrial bands firmly reject right wing ideologyWhat an odd thing to say, especially if you count stuff like PE as a subgenre. Industrial is a flexible, hybridized style (to the point that it's hard to describe what it even is) and lends itself just as well to far-right, far-left, and totally apolitical music.>>122869969https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4BI_vulfPQ>>122872316>who here is a fan of futurepop?I love Assemblage 23 and Trust but everything else I've tried pales in comparison. Got any recs?
https://youtu.be/FvSIJ-9Z8HY?si=QrpzeWcQkmcLRsj8 .......... :(
>>122862518It's not commercial sounding, quite abrasive. Stuff like Nitzer Ebb and DAF also had that "gay club" leather vibe going on so people probably thought it was too gay or European
>>122872316Hipster Industrial is actually the invention of a lot of ex-futurepop/aggrotech labels. They spent a few years bitching about low sales and music piracy on a small forum called violent playground back between 2013-2014, and then they discovered Witch House & Sacred Bones Records bands, which lead them to make a hard-pivot to today's current crop of sounds. That's why HEALTH plays at festivals alongside hot topic tier bands like Aesthetic Perfection.
>>122875154yeah DM using the industrial label kind of diluted it, and NIN put the nail in. KFMDM dissed DM for a reason
I attended a health concert last month to discover a lot of young alt rock fans were present and waiting for the gig to start. Old dudes as well but mostly youngsters.And the last big resurgence of industrial as a genre happened in the mid 00's with all the retro synth stuff, like Perturbator and Carpenter Brut - and those names are still attracting an audience almost 10 years later. Industrial isn't really going anywhere, it just tastes a bit different.
>>122862518Lack of catchy songs. Aka, songs with melodies, choruses, hooks in general.The reason NIN is by far the most popular industrial band is because Trent Reznor could write catchy songs.A lot of other bands in the genre couldn't write a hook to save their life, or they would have one or two decent songs and then the rest of the album would be pointlessly noisy filler with nothing memorable about it. As another anon said, bad vocals were a major part of this problem.
>>122876741Depeche Mode are good and should count as industrial, anyway. Doesn't matter if they're predominantly "synthpop", cause their rhythm section is industrial as hell.
>>122877839i haven't listened to everything but so far it seems like for every 1-2 industrial sounding songs there's like 4-6 radio friendly generic sappy love ballads and that seems to make up the bulk of their material
>>122875749>Got any recs?Welcome To Earth by Apoptygma Berzerk is my favorite Futurepop album. Stephan Groth is a better songwriter than Tom Shear, imo. But the band started making shitty synth rock after this album so nothing else is worth listening to
>>122877978> hasn't ever been in love> thinks love is cringewhy would you listen to depeche mode
>>122877270>A lot of other bands in the genre couldn't write a hook to save their life, or they would have one or two decent songs and then the rest of the album would be pointlessly noisy filler with nothing memorable about it. As another anon said, bad vocals were a major part of this problem.That's the same problem with so-called neofolk.Death In June was a great pop band - all DIJ clones were incapable of writing a good tune, it was always sub-par (DIJ was always too personal to be worth copying anyway).
Because Industrial got absorbed into Goth in the mainstream in the 90s, it's that simple. Even the biggest artists associated with Mall goths were all industrial/industrial metal acts like White Zombie, NIN, Manson, and Rammstein. So in the mainstream they're the "same" thing. Also the "Industrial and School shooters" thing comes from Dylan and Eric liking KMFDM
>>122878347it's just slop made for play on the radio
>>122880730lovecel cope
>>122880768you're the one insisting that it's all love songs when i never said that either btw it's just depeche mode's love songs i'm talking about. every single one sounds the same.
It is quite literally because the Original Industrial acts never had "dance-ability". Nothing to headbang to, nothing that grooves the body. And it came with the genre. Original Industrial was the anti-thesis to RnB, Hip-Hop, and Funk. It was "soulless". The Original Industrial fans took a hippie approach to the music thinking that "understanding" the author was the purpose. It wasn't. It was to make music reflect the industrial scape that the world was in the 70s to 90s. As someone put it, we now live in a service economy (>>122862723 ). There is nothing in any of the modern countries, like the US and UK, that are manufacturing anything. The only way Industrial survived in a sense, and is making a "revival" is because acts like Nine Inch Nails, Skinny Puppies, and Static-X had to fuse the genre with Nu-Metal. Which is the most ironic shit ever since Nu-Metal has influence of RnB, Hip-Hop, and Funk.
>>122871728nah they are stuck up"is this industrial?""UHHHH NOOOO REEEEE ONLY SPK AND THROBBING GRISTLE ARE TRVE INDUSTRIAL"
>>122880923>the worst thing about the genre is elitist boomersmany such cases
>>122875094>foetus>birthing industrial/synthpop metalnow thats funny
>>122880844yeah for me i'm not into industrial until it started to absorb influences from jazz, funk and dance music. those same methodologies but using anti-music, harsh noise that usually isn't used in music, and having more of an aggressive vibe instead of the usual sparkle fairy stuff in mainstream dance music. and then you had punk/metal guys get involved and do their own thing which i also enjoyed. but eventually it seems like those influences grew to dwarf the original ethos and sound. i guess it was always something with a limited shelf life.
How can anyone listen to PE/Harsh Noise and think "this is fine"? I mean rip your ears i guess lol
EBM is definitely the better of the sub-genres. Click Click is pretty cool.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jblEb7JCpFY
>>122881072it's cathartic in a way that few other things are
>>122880923>le throbbing gristle is stuck upshut up , turd face
>>12288153318+ site, babby
>>122881581eat hot skibidi and die
>>122877270Frontline Assembly has many catchy songs, same with KFMDM. I guess they just weren't as marketable as NIN because they are ugly while Reznor was the typical emogoth pretty boy
>>122881812FA's vocals aren't very good and most of the music seems to be made with clubs in mind while Reznor is just a vapid pop star wearing industrial music like blackface
>>122881861>while Reznor is just a vapid pop star wearing industrial music like blackfacelmao
>>122862518industrial is one of the coolest genres. especially because of all the electroacoustic elements. bands like autechre can be seen as modern day industrial with all the atonal elements and structurally too. i think it has more mutated into modern day art music wankery (positive) rather than died
