People don't want to admit this is better than any Avant-Prog from the 70's.
>>123619204I have heard of Captain Shit Dick but have not listened his music
>>123619204>AvantJust because something is annoying and shitty it doesn't make it some intelligent high art
Holy shit
>>123619552Would it be possible to print that on Charmin?
>>123619529They don't want to hear that though. Literally just a worse version of what more mainstream blues rock bands had already done+maybe some beatles+maybe some Velvet Underground though yeah.
>>123619671
>>123619204>this brown poop is better than that green poop
>>123619734Downie! :))))
>>123620311Why the smile?
>>123620311Also there's nothing to even debate here. Every element that is supposedly unique about Trout Mask Replica is something where an earlier album or musician had already done similar. Mostly The Bealtes,The Velvet Underground,Zappa,Ten Years After,Hendrix,or Red Crayola. If anything Beefheart was playing catch up after years of being the most derivative and bland act imaginable.
>>123620333the velvet underground might be the actual worst band of all time. Normally I reserve that judgement for bands people actually know, like the doors, ac/dc, kiss and fleetwood mac, but the velvet underground is way shittie and way more gay than all of those bands. You insist they are a "wal mart shirt band" so I'll include them even though I consider them obscure, and the velvet underground is without a doubt the worst sounding and gayest of "wal mart shirt bands"
>>123620356Lmao,nah that's just you actually being actually stupid. Because of le heckin common time and because some of it is atonal right? You didn't understand the actual concept of what they were doing probably. Changed music forever. The Velvet Underground made it so anything could be a "catchy chorus" as long as it was interesting. It no longer needed to be a conventional melodic sequence. They figured out you could just insert anything basically as long as it was "catchy" it could fit within verse chorus verse. Even if you hate pop music and hate modern classical that's a pretty huge advancement in terms of structure and form. The VU figured out you could put in one of these atonal or avant gaurde sequences if it was still catchy as the chorus or part of the main body.
kill the nico tranny
>>123620416>changed music foreveryeah I looked up several lists of bands that were influenced by the velvet AIDS patients a few days ago, they are literally all dogshit>sonic youth>arctic monkeys>etchorrible. I would genuinely rather listen to KISS than the velvet underground and I fucking hate KISS. TVU are faggots on another level.
>>123620356You're so retarded holy shit. No wonder you like this crap. Their songs are instantly engaging and compelling and the things you hold against them as inherently bad are only weaknesses if done without intent. The Velvet Undergrojnd clearly knew they were using pop song structures and that some of these songs were heavily dishonest and atonal. You cannot realistically count this against them when the songs themselves are instantly captivating and engaging to the point where they're more remembered than bands from the time who wildly outsold them at this point. If it was truly bad they wouldn't have transcended to a remotely mainstream status which you can bitch all you want but clearly happened. More people know who The Velvet Underground are than beefheart. It's because they were right and doing this in fact worked. If the basic premise of what you were saying was remotely true in terms of inherent quality they would have seen no commercial succsess either,so clearly you were just too retarded to get it. I don't really like pop music either but by doing this The Velvet Underground forever altered what could be done within the context of western song writing and western song structures and it worked. It doesn't occur to you how unusual some of these songs are unless explained and it implicitly changed all song writing within the rock genre.
>>123620321Happy to see you haven't stopped and keep entertaining me :))))Dance downie dance
>>123620416>they made it okay to be shit at music if you convince a bunch of retards that you're coolwow. impressive. tvu truly a band for the ages and not a novelty gimmick that went to shit when Cale left
>>123620439Yeah you're mentally disabled or something. Already figured that out. Think I interacted with you earlier lol. Your argument is retarded and can be boiled down to common time signatures or song structures and the use of tonality and dissonance. The music itself is still both catchy and varied so neither of these points actually matter. You're just too stupid to have picked up on the overall concepts. That you could place a dishonest or atonal sequence if it was "catchy" as the main fixture of a verse chorus verse songstructure was new for the time and The VU heavily pushed that. Arguably the first to truly do thus so that basically alters all of western music study forever right there. You're just too big a retard to catch up probably.
Postin cuz its my bait image
>>123620472>the velvet underground>catchyimagine lying to people this shamelessly
>>123620451>>123620460Yeah the random smiling shows your at risk for hurting yourself lol. I think the downie might be you there but I know you struggle forming sentences and shit to begin with. Never admit that to yourself ofc. >"wow. impressive. tvu truly a band for the ages and not a novelty gimmick that went to shit when Cale left"I mean they didn't "go to shit" persay because Live:1969 has moments of brilliance and both Jesus and The Murder Mystery are great off the self titled but he certainly held a lot of these ideas together and they definetely did have a bit of a downgrade in quality with his departure,not to mention the introduction of Doug Yule who did not get anything they tried to do at all,and ofc ultimately completely destroyed the band with Squeeze which is unironically a horrible album. Landed kinda just lacks something but it's not quite as bad. Live:69 is fucking great and he was well out of the picture by then but I think Lou was still sticking to some of the same ideas and Doug was more in lime before he ran off with the rights and even on Loaded he was taking more control.
>>123620503Sunday Morning is catchy. The average "normke" will find it catchy. They literally broke the fundamental laws of western music theory and study. Fucking Black Angels Death Song is catchy by some standard and yet completely unmarketable but it still runs off that pop song structures so it sort of streams down even though it's not even remotely melodic. Your brain just accepts it.
>>123620450>The Velvet Underground forever altered what could be done within the context of western song writing and western song structures and it worked.yeah thank god we have sonic youth and the arctic monkeys. These literal faggots are completely irrelevant and btw nico is unlistenable.
>>123620524No, it isn't catchy, you just like it. As we discussed earlier, k-pop isn't anime music, it could have played on the radio in 2001. Here are two songs by two different groups that are "catchy". Catchy doesn't mean "I like it because I am autistic and listen to it every day"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wA_b6YHjqQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POe9SOEKotkthese songs are catchy, shamlessly and autistically so because they were designed to be that way by dozens of people, but regardless they are. Every velvet underground song sounds like warbling heroin addict tranny fucking garbage, because that's exactly what it is.
>>123620460Also this moves naturally. That's bot retarded that's just true. They proved to could have a completely dishonest or atonal sequence flow like it was a fucking pop song and your brain would just accept it as if nothing changed. That fundamentally alters all western perception of music. Zappa or Beefheart actusly don't work or flow naturally so they failed to do this. The VU succeeded. Less with direct reference from pop music or avant gaurde classical or anything I just mentioned but Red Crayola also used nonconventional ideas in songwriting much better,but either way without being told not to the average persons brain just accepts a VU Song the way they would the Beatles even it's completely disonent or atonal which is a huge fucking discovery there. That you can as long as you have a "chorus" sequence do that. Without being told that's "low iq" nobody actually thinks it is either because The Velvet Underground isn't popularly seen that way,so ultimately that's your own hangups and unwillingness to evolve. Beefheart on the other hand genuinely sounds like shit because he didn't attempt to contextualize these ideas within a defined structure. It's just random. The VU took a more modern "atructure" but also abandoned the old one and that changed things instantly. May have further standardized common time or whatever but was ultimately a step forward.
>>123620532You're having a retarded meltdown. Nobody cares about your meme opinions you learned from Wikipedia about Common Time or Tonality. They fucking permanently broke music theory lol. Zappa just did retarded boomer humor versions of shit jazz or classical had already achieved. Same with Beefheart but with blues.
>>123620579You seriously are just too slow to catch up to the music itself here. You can whine like a retard about common time or dissonance (I know your too stupid to even put your gripes into words so I'm doing it for you) but ultimately that's just your own failure to adjust your framework. "Normies" like them more than Beefheart because they flow naturally,and ultimately in a sense The VU proved that maybe nothing else really matters. Idk. Interesting band though. Maybe when you grow up a bit you'll be able to give them more of a try.
>>123620579I clicked the links and this just seems like your desperate and slightly intellectually challenged attempt at social acceptance. Some shitty k pop lol. Reddit as fuck to say but you're probably just low IQ. Did the pretty k pop ladies tell you common time was bad and that tonality was bad? That might explain it. I doubt you understood what they were saying at all. I doubt you would if you spoke Korean either. Just someone smarter than you who you probably wish you could sleep with or were friends with feeding you what to believe.
>>123620617yeah bro maybe when I grow up a bit I'll learn to appreciate the heroin addict tranny fucking music that has not rhythm or melody to speak of and is intentionally offensive dogshit before punk came around to make even worse music. The velvet underground suck absolute dick and all of your opinions and divisive behavior might have some credibility were it not for you putting this horrible band on a pedastal. They are bad. Their music isn't good. They sound gay and it's shitty. You're willing to die over this horrific band and it undercuts anything else you have to say about anything.
*atonalityFuck man this I'd a laugh though. Yeah literally this specific k pop band said something about odd time signatures and traditional melodic structures thst you didn't even understand because your probably an abject retard and you believe they'd fuck you so your repeating it to me. Fucking incredible.
>>123620672You're not a "bro",I would recomend you stop larping as one. All it's going to bring you is more shame. I'm sorry the pretty k pop ladies you falsely believe you could have sex with told you that everything should be in prog time but with more traditional melodies ig. Fuck I even like prog and dont like pop music all tjat much and even like some more conventional melodies but lol. There's no way you're not just a retard being led around on a stick. That's fucking sad. You're just too dumb to get what they were even attempting and some pretty lady told you it was bad so you're repeating it back to me. Most people who truly hate The Velvet Underground are simply too dumb to follow along.
>>123620672>"ABSOLUTE SUCK DICK"Except if "normies" accept it at all then clearly they were right and it worked. If it was truly so flawed on a fundamental level than they never would have obtained any degree of popularity. Clearly they were right and you actually can just structure it like that.
This is something where popularity actually does disprove your statement because if it is fundamentally impossible then usually nobody or very few people will like it. They became more accepted over time to the point of being a t shirt band prettymuch,so no it actually worked lol. If it didn't things like Indie,Punk,and Black Metal would simply not exist. Proof is in the pudding. If you don't like The Velvet Underground you're probably just a retard. If you like The Beatles or Beefheart I just sort of assume you're a child mentally lol. CAN even if they were inspired by both those bands are also fucking kino same with Hendrix. You just suck. Same reason you probably like The Doors more than Love and hate RUSH and Prog in general because critics told you to. I bet you like KISS too lol.
Shut up retard
TVU = objectively good, if you don’t like it that’s because you’re a stupid 40 year old skibidi Hasbin Hotel virgin chud that will never have sexCB = objectively bad, if you like it that’s because you’re a stupid 40 year old skibidi Hasbin Hotel virgin chud that will never have sex Me = very smart (had sex)
>>123620709nobody listens to or likes the velvet underground. They are an awful band. They sound like they are dying of gay AIDS in an era before people even knew what being gay is. They probably caused AIDS being the tranny fucking gaylords that they were. The music sounds bad, it's terrible. It destroys any credibility talking about music at all you might have by defending the fucking velvet underground. Horrible band, unlistenable garbage.
>>123620947I love both but haven't had sex since 2022. I kinda forgot what it's like
>>123620740Oh no no no, lil bro!
>>123620740The Doors rule
Bump
>>123620998The Doors suck and he's stealing insults from me.ches never brought up fucking kiss before but he can't help but steal insults levied against him
>>123624401I don't think these takes are as unique as you think they are. The Doors having a generic sound or having ripped off love is a pretty common talking point.
>>123624401Imagine being filtered by The Doors
>>123624592A) Which album from before 1967 sounds like The DoorsB) Which Love album sounds like The Doors
>>123624593>Imagine being filtered by some horseshit I likeYeah I simply cannot understand them. It's impossible to not like the doors given enough IQ and music taste, it's mandatory. Poor me, filtered by their shitty lame boomer tunes.
>>123620988The average Beefheart Fan in real life looks more like this
>>123624601Basically all Garage Psych which existed instantly lol. >>123620988This is all just self evident too,and in real life you do not see guys who look like this wearing Zappa or beefheart shit ever. It exclusively appeals to dorky fat retards.
>>123624616You meant pic related
>>123624629>Basically all Garage Psych which existed instantly lol.So, basically, you have no real examples. Doors had>Jazz drums>Flamenco guitar>Literal church organist>One of the first bands to use the Moog synth and used it to achieve a sans-bass rock band>At the vanguard of reawakening the blues roots of rock music, rivalled in this regard only by Jimi Hendrix and Captain Beefheart.There literally was no band quite like The Doors in 1967.
>>123624653Keyword:Average
>>123624718You met many Beefheart fans IRL, nico?
>>123624676>Jazz DrumsLmao at that as a new thing>Church OrganLmao at that as a new thing>Moog SynthLmao at that as a new thingOk retard. Check out The Human Expression,The Dovers,A-440,and The Rising Storm. >At the vanguard of reawakening the blues roots of rock music, rivalled in this regard only by Jimi Hendrix and Captain Beefheart.The fucking Rolling Stones?
>>123624724Not many because tbf they tend to not go outside lol. Certainly don't meet them at shows or anything.
>>123624676Agreed. The seeds were proto doors but not at the same level of what was to comd
>>123624751Even then there's still like 30 examples lmao. Massive cope.
>>123624676Imagine having all that for you and still being a pack of cringe poorly mixed hacks. That copypasta about them is the most scathing indictment of this shitty band
>>123624768They're all generic as fuck too. Compare it seriously to The Human Expression,Painted Faces,The Dovers,The Spiffys,or Love and it's clearly not that unique at all either. Also The Monks.
>>123624741>>Jazz Drums>Lmao at that as a new thing>Church Organ>Lmao at that as a new thingIn a rock band though? Yeah, that’s rather bold. By that logic Hendrix didn’t invent anything either because the electric guitar already existed, to ignore the fact of what he used it to do.>>Moog Synth>Lmao at that as a new thingActually yes, this was a brand new technology that very few musicians had experimented with so far and basically none to any particular success. Of the top of my head the main other early adopter of the Moog synth was The Monkees, another very innovative and influential band.>Ok retard. Check out The Human Expression,The Dovers,A-440,and The Rising Storm.None of these sound like the Doors. This is like a list of random psych bands that you think are obscure, none of them have any of the features I just described as being peculiar to The Doors for the time and some of them are more like psych folk bands, which obviously is nothing like The Doors it’s just a genre you like.>The fucking Rolling Stones?The Rolling Stones were all big Blues lovers but they were forced by the industry to spend most of their 60s career basically being a Beatles tribute act, by the time they could actually let their Blues roots fly The Doors was already out.
>>123624803>genericWhat you are noticing is that The Doors are probably one of the most influential rock bands of all time and now 60 years later we have had a long list of bands directly inspired by The Doors. I’ve heard Zoomers describe Hendrix as generic too for this very reason. In the same way at this point cola is a very generic taste, because Coca-Cola is probably the most influential drink invented since beer.
>>123624768>>123624741The difference between a lot of these and Love is Love was a Black Guy doing Eurofolk and Western Military with Funk and Soul Beats and sort of yelling like james brown or doing the sort of more wailing soul singer vocals over the sort of traditional eurofolk melodies and most of these other bands are white bands doing a mix of pop and blues with some more conventional psych ideas. Arthur Lee was also a tweaker so yk yeah. You can kinda see how he got to that approach lol. Brilliant shit though. Kinda allowed for Black Metal and Neofolk and shit way later on because white artists in Europe who spoke those languages like French and German and Danish hadn't really figured you could do thst yet,whereas Lee sort of looped back around the entire western cannon. More intense for the time.
>>123624878>Love invented black metal
>>123624837In a rock band though? Actually yeah because Cream released an album before The Doors did and alresdy had a jazz drummer. >"Actually yes, this was a brand new technology that very few musicians had experimented with so far and basically none to any particular success."Fair enough although mostly other psych acts and around the same time at that,but The Doors probably did help have SOME role in popularization.
>>123624869I'm actually not. Look up garage psych bands 60s on YouTube. >>123624890Not what I was saying. More thst it advanced theory ideas that allowed for some extreme music to exist further down the road. Obviously Love aren't Black Metal. More that they were "proto punk" or "proto metal" I guess.
>>123624890I can get how you'd get that out of what I said but I'm aware there were several steps in between those things. More in the way that The Velvet Underground probably very indirectly allowed Punk to exist or something like that I meant.
>>123624894Younger band than The Doors and Fresh Cream preceded The Doors s/t literally by a matter of days. Still, respect to Cream, another very innovative band.
>>123624911>I'm actually not. Look up garage psych bands 60s on YouTube.You already tried to name like 5 that anyone with ears can hear sound nothing like The Doors
>>123624940I alresdy did dude. Well maybe not 5 and tbf The Spiffys literally covered The Doors but to give you a real answer I would say The Dovers,The Seeds,Love,The Velvet Underground,The Human Expression,Painted Faces,Es-Shades,A-440,Ten Years After,and CAN all had a similar sound somewhat. Some of those at least definetely predated them like The Dovers and The Human Expression both of which I would argue took more risks. Also Bohemian Vendetta would probably cover most of these points. It's a take off from the American Garage psych sound.
>>123624940The similarities is obvious in terms of still using a mixture of pop and blues a sa jumping off point and in the case of the blue magoos some early use of electronics. I'd say Beefheart and Hendrix from different angles had similar vocal presentation. Idk dude. Can't say I see eye to eye with you on this and plenty of people have made the comparisons.
>>123624972I strongly suspect that autism has some kind of effect on your ability to process music because you persistently insist on the mutual-influence of bands and genres that you like on each other despite having nothing in common but the fact that you like them. Case in point, Burzum and Donkey Kong Country, or the litany of bands you just named that not only don’t sound like The Doors but they don’t even sound like each other. How can The Doors sound like all of them if none of them even sound like each other? Make it make sense. Or alternatively attributing non-existent influence to the level of plagiarism from bands you don’t like to bands that you do. It’s like you are only intellectually capable of comprehending 2 qualities in music, “I like this” and “I don’t like this”, otherwise it may as well all be Greek. No one who listens to The Doors and then listens to Love is going to think they sound alike, TVU neither. This is actually delusional. Plus Can didn’t even exist until s/t was already out.
Prog is a gathering ground for neckbeards and assorted autists. Useless genre that no one sane listens to. I do like how it's called progressive and it's more or less the opposite.
>>123625069>I strongly suspect you can't process le music>*proceeds to listen to fucking beefheart*Lol no,The Doors just genuinely weren't as innovative as your making them out to be. I'm sorry.
>>123625123Who tf said anything about Beefheart?Actually obsessed
>>123625069>"sound alike, TVU neither. This is actually delusional. Plus Can didn’t even exist until s/t was already out."The Human Expression,The Dovers,Painted Faces,and The Blue Magoos absolutely did do similar shit around the same time if not earlier though. Pretty hard pressed to genuinely debate this.
>>123625132Fair,you're still overestimating how unique the doors were though. The Dovers and The Human Expression would in fact be a fair direct comparison as would I say early Q65 in The Netherlands and Blue Magoos (also us) the year prior. They had a very basic sort of garage rock blues psych sound. I'll give you that Love weren't really much of a blues band but they have similarity otherwise. Think about the intro to "Light My Fire" and then consider thst Jim said about as much.
>>123625143Literally all of those bands are also younger than The Doors, except The Dovers who are a psych folk band (kek).
>>123625163Jim Said Forever Changes is his favourite album. If there is Love influence in the Doors, it would be lyrical and not in terms of their sound.
>>123625188The Blue Magoos,The Monks,The Human Expression,Love,and The Rising Storm absolutely used elements similar to what you're describing. Also doubt you've actually heard some of if any of these bands if you actually think there is no direct comparison but I understand you'll never fully admit this. The Doors Tyoe of Sound was already well established by the time The Doors came around though. You can deny this like a retard but it doesn't make it remotely true. Half the bands I mentioned were mostly a thin between 65 and 66 or fucking broke up in 67. Maybe not all together in the same package sure but in terms of The Doors clearly heard and drew upon at least some of these. Nowhere near as radical a sound as you are claiming.
>>123625199The intro to Light My Fire aswell as the general cadence and presentation of Waiting for The Sun which I would also compare to Blue Magoos. Idk dude,I think you're chosing not to see things you don't want to. I'll give you CAN came wya later but there's some obvious similarities there aswell. Clearly plenty of bands both before and after played with similar ideas. You're not genuinely going to tell me The VU and The Doors had absolutely no overlap ever either. Some of the darker stuff on both debute albums is definetely comparable. The whole hard rock blues rock psych thing was also alresdy established. Fresh Cream came out in 1966 so did The first Ten Years After Album,so combine that with some ideas from Love and maybe one of the more artsy bands and presto:there's The Doors.
>>123625199Like I fact checked this dude and Cream actually did put out releases before The Doors had and so did The Velvet Underground. Most of the us garage psych type bands I mentioned were also prior.
Also we alresdy covered in the monkees discussion that both The Moody Blues and Monkees put out albums using a Moog Synth and 67 and that the meaningful difference between a synth and a melotron is debatable so yeah. You have a LOT to establish here. Lothar and The Hand People also already existed just hands put out an official album.
>>123625256Not that guy.I will sound spergy but, yes TVU released the debut before the doors, however the doors recorded their album on summer 66 and TVU finished their recording on late 66. So, who was earlyer?
>>123619204It's just so choppy and the vocals don't go well with the music
>>1236252861.do we have any plausible reason to believe The VU would have known who the doors were at that time2.The Human Expression and Dovers were mostly in 19663.The Blue Magoos were already using at least some kind of electronic instruments on their first album4.Q65 in The Netherlands debuted the prior year 5.Both The Monkees and The Moody Blues released albums with moog they also started recording in 666.a lot of the basic doors sound was clearly ripped from more alternative or less mainstream garage psych acts of that time 7.Cream and Ten Years After in The UK also had 1966 debut albums These are my basic talking points thus sofar. Lol if you genuinely believe that The Doors weren't doing a more mainstream accessible version of the more general Garage-Psyxh Sound either. Also I just checked and The Rising Storm (who also used electronics and had a similar sort of moodiness to them) also put out their first album in 67,and once again also seemed to have Love as an influence. Also plenty of people have compared The Doors to Love including Morrison himself who heavily credited them as an influence.
>>123625287This. It feels very thrown together and awkward. Not in a cool or punk rawk way either,in a "This guy has no fucking concept of what normal people would consider songwriting does he" way.
>>123625256>Cream actually did put out releases before The Doors By a matter of days and on two different continents. Cream are great but there is no credible argument to be made that they influenced The Doors s/t.>and so did The Velvet Underground. Not only do they not sound like The Doors, there is once again a 0% chance anyone in The Doors ever heard a record of theirs because it wasn’t even out when they started recording.
>>123625240Fresh Cream came out in December 1966The Doors s/t came out in January 1967TVU&N came out March 1967
>>123625391What about all the 1966 garage-psych-blues sounding bands who clearly inspired both bands? The Doors were clearly just as derivative of these as The Velvet Underground were and The Velvet Underground took said ideas way further so idk,The Doors seem overrated and kinda bland to me ig. I understand you believe they were extremely influential and le changed music forever the same way many of you believe the Beatles did though.
>>123625369Yeah and if it was on two different continents and there was a "0% chance" they heard whoever clearly what The Doors were doing wasn't really that radical.
>>123625403You mean the literally who bands no one ever heard of that for some inexplicable reason includes psych folk acts that you’re trying to pretend sound like The Doors?
>>123625369>"Not only do they not sound like The Doors"They both work off the American Garage Psych Sound established a year or two prior. The VU were truly radical whereas The Doors were just a bland commercial bastardization of this. >>123625422>"Literally who"Ok now you're throwing around meme words lol. Literally who or not they had followings and some of them were also in California and clearly there were a ton of these bands before The Doors had even remotely arrived on the scene.
>>123625422>"acts that you’re trying to pretend sound like The Doors?"They clearly did and you can't explain how they didn't. Also The Blue Magoos charted. You're just too retarded for more interesting stuff or too funko pop coded.
>>123625422Also The Dobers were never a psych folk act. You believe this because of Wikipedia or something and you not having actually heard them. Neither is The Rising Storm really. Love on maybe only a couple tracks and then the rest is in fact closer to the doors. The Doors were unironically probably just Love+Ten Years After+The Dovers+The Human Expression if I were to guess.
>>123625417A) Your only claimed similarity between The Doors and Cream is that they both had jazz trained drummers. Arguing with you is futile because you cannot even remember your own arguments.B) I don’t know what the air quotes are for when there objectively is a 0% chance that an album released on December 1966 could have been heard by anyone involved in al album that finished recording in August 1966.
>>123625458Blues influences and overall presentation and song structures aswell but sure lmao. That is in fact what I said for Cream. Widely accepted in psych circles that The Doors copied smaller name acts from the garage scene aswell. Nobody who actually knows what they're talking about has ever debated that.
>>123625458>"Arguing with you is futile because you cannot even remember your own arguments."I made several other ones you were just too retarded to read them. You can bitch all you want but something like The Human Expression or Q65 is in fact similar. The VU advanced this formula in a way that The Doors simply did not. You like The Doors so much because you are basic.
>>123625458As much of a cunt as I'm being I do appreciate that this is an actual discussion with real data points and discussion of the musical qualities though. If we were actually discussing TMR or some other /mu/meme crap that would probably literally never happen. I will also agree CAN came way way way fucking later. I don't think that's really up for debate. They formed at the same time as Led Zepplin or Frijid Oink prettymuch and The Doors had mostly passed by then. You're right that they in of themselves don't really prove much.
>>123625447The onus is on you to explain how they did, lil bro.
*Frijid Pink
>>123625504They used heavy blues elements with a darker tone than previous bands aswell as some bits from early electronics while still maintaing an RnB/Pop/Blues/Country Basis. Sorry I just sort of assumed that was implicit and we were all on the same page with that one. Love Seems Doomed and Sometimes I think about off the first Blue Magoos Album especially. Rest of their stuff probably not as much.
>>123625466Did Cream invent Blues? No. Did the Doors represent themselves with bright colourful, trippy presentation? No. >Widely accepted in psych circles that The Doors copied smaller name acts from the garage scene aswell. It’s also widely accepted in psych circles that TMR is good and tremendously influential. Does merely stating that so anything to convince you?
>>123625504Also similar argument for The Human Expression and The Dovers. Love I was thinking more the mainland European influences,some presentational elements of soul music,and use of fantasy motifs.
>>123625526It is not accepted at all in psych circles lmao. It's accepted by fat retards on the internet mostly. I understand you believe that is the same thing though. Also k never claimed Cream invented blues but they had clearly akresdy combined jazz drumming with rock.
>>123625526Literally mostly manchild retard types who are obsessed with Beefheart. Most genre fans do not give a single shit. You are completely out to lunch with this.
>>123625519But Blues predates any of these bands by possibly as much as almost a century and no music historian will tell you that there are many bands before 1967 taking as much advantage of synth technology as The Doors. Only band to really push the envelope further in this regard is The Monkees a short while later with Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd also in 1967. Probably as a direct consequence of the influential success of The Doors s/t.
>>123625568I never claimed it didn't. The overall presentation and use in context that the doors were going with clearly comes from American Garage psych bands though. Same with The VU mind you but they advanced it way way further than The Doors did.
>>123625568>" The Monkees a short while later with Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn & Jones Ltd also in 1967. Probably as a direct consequence of the influential success of The Doors s/t."Little Bro Dude I'm sorry but you really need to get outside more. Nobody in ant of the circles your talking about gives a genuine fuck about The Monkees. The Doors yeah but The Monkees lmao. That's entirely your discord server. I get your probably a teenager and these are pop culture hyperfixations you have but damn.
>>123625542Bro, you don’t move in psych circles. You have one friend, a black metal Jamaican and your gf who probably listens to the Baha dancehall Rasta men or whoever. Closest you have ever come to psych circles are these very threads on /mu/
>>123625568I love how you clarified The Monkees didn't come up with something on their own aswell,trust me I already assumed they hadn't. >>123625604Lmao ok. Have fun ig.
>>123625579Only it doesn’t and The Doors are older than most of these bands. You’re just determined to deny their originality because you have some kind of contrarian prejudice against them. If they broke up in 1966 with nothing but some demos to their name you’d be listing them right here among these garage psych bands.
>>123625604>"Bro, you don’t move in psych circles. "You clearly don't move in any circles but whatever makes you feel better ig. Never been to a show where anybody was genuinely discussing The Monkees. You need to go outside more. >>123625622>"The Doors are older than most of those bands"Except they objectively weren't. The Human Expression released most of their core work in 1966 same with The Blue Magoos and same with The Monks. The Rising Atorm released in 67 so probably around the same time. Es-Shades were also basically done by the time The Doors existed. You have literally no concept of what you're talking about here. Check the dates if you don't believe me. Most of The Dovers core work was also in 1966 same with Love and same with Q65.
>>123625602If you are to talk to anyone who knows anything about the history of synths in rock music that album is going to come up. It’s just an objective fact, few people were using it as is and none of them took advantage of it to the extent The Monkees did. Sorry if The Monkees aren’t cool enough for you or whatever but the use of synths in that album is objectively a landmark in rock history.
>>123625466>Widely accepted in psych circles that The Doors copied smaller name acts from the garage scene aswell.Not that guy again, that statement is barely true. >Doors used to open for Seeds, and Darryl Hooper influenced Manzarek>It seemed the Doors took that Music Machine and Seeds L.A. organ sound and made it seem like it was their own thingI think thats as far as it goes, and I think they evolved from they predecesor, the seeds.Those are comments from youtube on the song Up in Her Room by the seeds, which was recorded and released beofre the doors, and pretty much sounds like the doorshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=texKJUVB7KYI think you are mentioning a bunch of bands that dont have anything to do with the doors.
>>123625622Almost none of the bands I just mentioned weren't at least putting iut recordings before The Doors were excluding CAN. Prdttysure even The VU had a smaller print 66 release.
>>123625644>>123625645Almost all these bands predate The Doors first album. You're just kinda retarded little bro dude. Too much TikTok maybe. Also didn't Pet Sounds come out in 66 and use electronics aswell? Lmao.
>>123625643I have my own psych band, lil bro. And we all know The Monkees are based, I’m always seeing people in Monkees t-shirts at my shoes.>1966Lil bro doesn’t know The Doors formed in 1965 and recorded their self titled before summer 66 was even over.
>>123625645You just demonstrated that it was true lmao. Also almost everyone who actually listens to psych accepts this. I understand you don't interact in real life though.
>>123625663No you don't lmao. Wven if you did your still wrong but I almost completely garuntee you don't. You learned to talk like this from fucking wojak videos probably. Whatever though. Clearly I'm not going to convince you,I just know my shit well enough to know most of what your saying The Doors standardized or popularized even was already commonplace muchless invented. If you do have a band it's probably barely even psych and morelike some indie bullshit but realistically you're playing fucking incelcore alone on your computer that nobody actually listened to.
>>123625657But none of them predate The Doors>Also didn't Pet Sounds come out in 66 and use electronics aswell? Did they use the moog synth? Nope.
>>123625663I am aware they formed in 65,but there was alresdy garage psych in 65. It was arguably one of if not the earliest form of psychedelia or one of them. Most of the bands I'm talking about mostly recorded in 65-67. Love started in 1964 even.
>>123625685Yeah they actuslly do lmao. Love started in 64. Dover
>>123625684Daww, lil bro’s mad that his “band” doesn’t play shows or record, doesn’t even have more than 2 members. Maybe if he listened to The Doors more he might be inspired to come up with some creative ideas to get around these limitations and break on through to real life, where he’ll find out about the reverence of The Doors, The Monkees and Captain Beefheart on the psych scene.
>>123625710>Love sound like The Doors
>>123625685They were at very least releasing recordings before The Doors did by several years. Also The Dovers started 65 also. You're just an extreme entry level retard who can't read the actual timeliness for this stuff. Garage Rock also predates Psychedelia. A LOT of these bands were out before The Doors were. I doubt many people in 65 registered The Doors existed either since they didn't put anything out until Ths Dovers and Human Expression and all these other bands alresdy had which is clearly what inspired the first Doors album. Pesttysure Blue Magoos also used some kind of synthesizer or something.
>>123625699Earlier you were saying they mostly recorded in 1966. Now the second you find out The Doors already existed in 1965 you push it back to 1964 (by trying to claim The Doors ripped off Love lmao).
>>123625721They directly inspired them yeah. >>123625715Idk man you seem to be having a meltdown because I pointed out you habe no idea what you're talking about. Truth hurts ig. >>123625737The Doors did in fact rip off Love yes. Also Banda who actually were releasing music I 65 and 66 doing most of what you are describing.
>>123625737But yes a lot of these bands in practice totally predate The Doors and we're basically gone by the time The Doors started. Glad you finally admit this. The Doors clearly visibly ripped off these smaller bands sounsntoo. So did The VU mind you but they also built on it whereas The Doors did not.
>>123625734No one today registers any of these bands exist much less in 1965>Pesttysure Blue Magoos also used some kind of synthesizer or something.Nico you condemn yourself with your own lack of vocabulary to even talk about this subject. “Some kind of synthesiser or something”, he said vacantly. Was it a moog synth? Nope.
>>123625769Ok retard. I'm gonna give smoke a joint. They had similar use of electronics and similar songwriting and presentation at very least. So did Love depending on the song and so did The Human Expression. I get that you're a massive dweeb and that you'd never be introduced to any of these or take interest in them sure. We can agree to that ig.
>>123625748So where’s all the folk and brass in The Doors and where’s all the synth, organs, jazz drums and flamenco guitar in Love?
>>123625769>"Nico you condemn yourself with your own lack of vocabulary to even talk about this subject."Because the difference your talking about is ultimately superficial between a moog and a thermin and a melotron in practice yes. You have yet to explain otherwise.
>>123625787These are superficial differences and the other bands I mentioned do at least have some of these elements. I understand you can't understand that sure.
>>123625782Again, you are only capable of discussing music in the vaguest possible terms because you simply do not have the vocabulary or artistic comprehension to engage with this. Every time you attempt to describe how exactly The Doors are alike to another band you just go in circles restating that they’re similar without actually identifying any specifics. Maybe if you didn’t smoke so many doobies you’d be smart enough for this.
>>123625787Jim Morrison praised Love heavily and said they were a primary influence. I'd aheee that The Doors had more use of electronics and also more elements from both pop and blues but so did The Blue Magoos. Otherwise the sound is 100% just standard definition us garage psych but with a higher budget and honestly less creativity.
i like frownland its a good song
>>123625792>Difference is ultimately superficial between a synth and a thereminDING DING DING RETARD ALERTLad legit does not know what he is on about. Unironically thinks a modular synth and a theremin are basically the same thing. Point and laugh at the ignoramus.
>>123625810Skibbidi BOP BOP Yes Yes?>"Maybe if you didn’t smoke so many doobies you’d be smart enough for this."Were still trying to pretend you interact with society?
>>123625802>Literally the entire basic lineup of the band itself>Superficial differencesGuess it’s only superficial differences between The Beatles and Wu-Tang Clan.
>>123625835OK but you haven't disproved anything I said so I'm going to leave the thread now. Ten Years After used synths too. Doors are just critically overrated especially by entry level fans who know nothing else about the genre (same reason you think The Monkees were remotely important). Everything you're describing could in fact be easily attributed to one or more of these bands most if which im assuming you've never actually heard.
>>123625826He didn’t, he said Forever Changes was his favourite album. This>praised Love heavily and said they were a primary influence.Would however be 100% accurate if you were talking about the influence of Zappa or Beefheart on Can.
>>123625846Obviously this is a larger stretch but I get youre incapable of seeing that sure. The Dovers and Human Expression basically had a similar sound but better and more creative like 2 to 3 years prior same with Es-Shades etcetcetc. It's important to you because you don't know any better. Love and The Blue Magoos and The Human Expression all predicted the elements your describing prettymuch directly.
>>123625836Lil bro when you graduate from car washing school you’ll find out people in mainstream adult society do not respect stoners because they’re dumb and they smell bad.
>>123625855He clearly drew in them for inspiration though and this side gripe about CAN disproves nothing. You're just grinding your own gears because you're too big of a cringe retard to have heard The human Expression or The Dovers.
>>123625865Uh huh. Ok. Maybe your the kne who needs to put the weed down. >>123625855>Forever Changes was his favorite album>Favorite>They in practice existed before the doors did and established many similar ideas earlier Yeah I'm sire that'd totally incidental.
>>123625850>Ten Years AfterReleased their first album almost a year after The Doors and only a week before The Monkees magnum opus. Insignificant.
Does Nico unironically believe stoners are respected in adult society?
>>123625890Forever Changes also came out after s/t If they were merely imitating Love you would think their later albums would sound a lot more like Forever Changes but strangely this is not the case.
>>123625928Yes but Llve was already an established band who had hit songs and were popular overseas when The Doors started. Blue Magoos also at least had hits domestically. Not sure if Q65 had hits but the bands from the Netherlands getting us releases at all meant they were successful in practice same with Ten Years After and Cream. Anytime you see a musician from overseas forgetting discussed they by default either have some level of influence or popularity so that their were American fans of Q65 or Shocking Blue or whatnot at all means they were successful (not Group 1850 though ig they only got us album releases way later sadly). Regardless several very obvious precursors to The Doors. The Songs "Love seems Doomed" and "Somtimes I think about" by The Blue Magoos and the album De Capo by Love especially.
>>123625892>>123625911You're not a member of adult society though are you? Also yeah it's fairly normalized lol. It's in fact not still the mid 60s.
>>123625990It’s fairly normalised to be obese too that doesn’t mean people do not have complete and total contempt for it.
>>123626018Yeah and you are probably obeese lmao. Nice little fit there.
>>123625982And yet The Doors sound nothing like Love and despite continuing to exist for years after Forever Changes was out their sound does not move an iota in that direction.
>>123625892Crazy how many of those other bands had already released something by 65 or 66 though right? Ok.
>>123626040By popular critical opinion they actually do. Just more with Soul Music and Eurofolk and less with Blues. I'm guessing you only heard Forever Changes? Doesn't change that most of these other bands were essentially blues rock aswell either.
>>123626040The Latin shit,some of the rnb elements,and the high classic sort of fantasy motifs they 100% got from love though. Pretty obviously connections there in terms of thematics.
>>123626030Lil bro you work at a car wash, you are imminently moving back in with your mom, you can’t drive, you never graduated high school and you cannot go a single day without smoking pot. You are THE archetypical loser and when parents warn their kids about weed you are the type of person they are afraid they may become.
>>123626041Nice back pedal but okay
>>123626056The Latin shit 100% comes from Krieger’s Flamenco guitar background and The Doors were already a solidly RnB oriented band from the minute they formed. Some of lyrical ideas perhaps but at the same time Jim Morrison was already infatuated by these kinds of ideas and that’s part of why he liked Love so much to begin with.
>>123626056Do you ever think about how this is how you're choosing to spend your life? Or are you too stoned permanently for self reflection?
>>123626074That's not a back pedal that's just true. Unless you specifically only count French pop elements and not that Love had French Influences and Blue Magoos had pop influences so yeah sort of half of one half of the other there and the blue magoos really did have a similar contextualization for the electronics. Your point is minute and irrelevant.
>>123626096Sure which Love were utilizing in a psych context earlier. >>123626098Yeah your really spending it well lmao. So anyway The Doors weren't really that important. Thanks for playing. Notice how none of these other countries had us style garage psych scenes either really save for Mexico and Canada and then I guess The Netherlands already had similar before The Doors even existed.
>>123626103>Claim: The Doors and The Monkees didn’t do anything original, Ten Years After already used synths>Facts: Ten Years After released absolutely nothing until The Doors was already out for almost a year and Pisces, Aquarius was already recorded, mixed, printed and set to hit the shelves in days. >Result: furious coping and backpedaling.Anyway the message here is that Ten Years After are directly inspired by The Doors, like many many bands to come.
Funniest thing in this thread has to be the idea that The Monkees had a "magnum opus" I have to say.
>>123626124Sure but The Dovers and The Human Expression predated the doors for the most part so did Love. So did The Es-Shades,and then The Velvet Underground were basically at the same time.
>>123626134And none of them use Moog synths. Mogged!
>>123626124>"Anyway the message here is that Ten Years After are directly inspired by The Doors, like many many bands to come."Probably Cream who released their first album in 1966,another band who The Doors were likely inspired by. Nice attempt to fixate on a minor side argument though.
>>123626140I'm pretty sure The Blue Magoos actually did. You're talking like a retard again too lol. I get you'll never admit you were wrong though. Takes too much maturity.
>>123625892>The Monkees magnum opusCan you expand on this a little pls
>>123626147Fresh Cream: Released December 9th 1966, recorded from August to November 1966The Doors; Released January 4th 1967, recorded entirely within August 1966. Do you unironically think The Doors heard Fresh Cream basically the day it came out and then wrote, recorded and produced their self titled album in less than a month? Plus no synth so it’s literally you who’s trying to sidestep the reason you brought up Ten Years After to begin with.
>>123626140I just checked and The Blue Magoos did in fact use keyboards. So really The French Pop Elements are the only thing remotely novel here because Love were using like French/German Mideval Elements and The Blue Magoos were using Elements from pop music from the 59s and earlier 60s so really realylnjust barely on that. Of it wasn't a literal moog that's more just a difference in brand name. Moog is more the name of the company than an instrument. It's like saying modern pop country doesn't use guitar because they didn't play on a 1960s Fender. The Blue Magoos still in fact were using keyboards first.
>>123626169No I just think there were clearly several bands predation them that did almost everything you just described,and you seem completely incapable of substantiating otherwise. Also Cream were a supergroup being pushed heavily by a fairly big record label. They weren't some underground band like The Human Exoression were and Eric Clapton was alresdy a well established figure in rock music. Unironically it is very possible.
>>123626169>"Plus no synth"Good thing The Blue Magoos already did that then.
American pop I meant but still like yeah lmao,The Doors didn't do shit.
>>123626152Nope. Again this is you failing to understand what a modular synth even is. The Blue Magoos used plain old keyboard. Plus The Blue Magoos were not even among the bands listed by you in that post. Are you going to show your maturity and admit you were wrong?
>>123626176>>123626202Nigga literally thinks keyboards, modular synths and theremins are all the same thing and then unironically tries to pretend he knows anything about music or musicianship.Holy KEK
>>123626230In practice The Blue Magoos used synths yeah so you're just being retarded and nitpicking again. Also stop larping as black. It's emberassing.
>>123626220>>123626230Again you might have down syndrome. Thanks for playing. I'm totally right. https://youtu.be/WZACWKcVLC8?si=LzwjDVlT8HoCWI7xMusic that plays when you spend your entire disability check to see some vtubers tits lol
>>123626220>"Plus The Blue Magoos were not even among the bands listed by you in that post"I mentioned them several times over plus I'm right. Nothing The Doors did was truly that novel. It's mostly entry level basic normies who want to feel like they're into osychedelia but really just want generic hard rock. Might as well have said AC/DC.
>>123626163In 1967 the Monkees released Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn and Jones Ltd. It was their second album in which the music was written by the band members themselves rather than being manufactured for them K-pop style as in the earliest days of their career. It was released in 1967 at the absolute breakthrough of psychedelic music and represents one of the first psych pop albums, and also one of the first albums ever to use a modular synth. Excellent record.
>>123626271He's just trying to laugh at you I think. Really didn't need to type all of that out.
>>123626242A keyboard is not a synth, lil nigga. You do not want to die on this hill; what you are saying right now is full on embarrassing retardation. You do not know what a modular synth even is, you think the keyboard controller is the synth and that these two instruments are the same thing (and theremins too apparently).Jesus fucking CHRIST, this is the dude that’s on here trying to LARP like he’s a psychedelic music expert every day.
>>123626301Ok,minor detail in that they basically sound exactly the same but sure. Overrated band lol. The Moody Blues also used moog. Plenty of bands were doing it around that time. Would have switched over as the technology progressed etcetc. Please stop larping as black. Everyone can tell and its emberassing and sad.
>>123626301Musicians aren't sperging out about gaming pcs the way you are. They probably used it the exact same way.
>>123626265Let’s check the post >>123626134Hmm, not one single mention of The Blue Magoos. What’s that you were saying about lacking the maturity to admit you were wrong?>Nothing The Doors did was truly that novel. And yet despite all your posturing you have still failed to identify even one single band to use synths in psych rock before them.
>>123626334In practice it's basically the same thing eith what you're describing more representing an improvement in technology than a genuine change to music. This is at this point also your only leg to stand on since I basically debunked everything else.
>>123626334The Blue Magoos used Keyboards,The Moody Blues put out a completely unrelated album also using moog the same year which they also started recording in 1966 likely without any knowledge that The Doors even existed. Minute details and bickering over what was overall a heavily derivative sound.
>>123626352>>123626366Why do you think you get to be an authority on music when you can't even play?
>>123626372I play actively and have played live,unlike you (a smelly morbidly obeese retard larping in a desperate attempt to seem remotely normal).
