Mozart editionhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7A8bjkVXC8This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western classical tradition.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://pastebin.com/NBEp2VFhPrev thread:>>123648657
All this talk of Mahler and I still have no idea which recording is supposed to be the "best", but I know which ones to avoid.Can you name THE best recording for each symphony? or rec a cycle?
>>123663481Karajan
>take magic truffles with lemon tek>classical piece from the trip playlist starts>music literally, LITERALLY, becomes 3 dimensional, it feels just as if I am sitting right where the conductor is, I see the music and feel it in my entire body absolute peak experience, do this kind of thing at least once before you die
now playinghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-FjOPB4w2g
tranime is not music
>>123664536Maho is Mozartian
Schoenberg https://youtu.be/fCrToyZfgs8?si=rVhBoBa96dhwVSTBPowerful
Brandenburg 5 and bwv 1044 are the greatest concertos of the baroque canon
>>123664919wrong.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrPMAdIulNw
>>1236650375 is better in every way.
>>123663481I can name my favorites save for 1 which I haven't found a favorite for yet.2 Klemperer, 3 Chailly, 4 Kletzki, 5 Leinsdorf and Abravanel, 6 Bernstein '67, 7 Segerstam, 8 Sinopoli, DLvdE Klemperer, 9 Hans Zender, 10 Chailly
Best Bach cello suites recordings?
>>123665507fuck off.
>>123665507>>123665521now this is /classical/
Wagnerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AS7JJJ4Qr4
>>123664536Similarly, this is not your website.
>>1236659934chan is an anime website, not a tranime website. tranime is just for /a/ and /jp/.
since we're talking Mahler, who's your favorite Mezzo for the third symphony? Most ones I heard sound God-damned ugly.
>>123666096Steins gate is kinome
>>123666131fag shit for 19 yo virgins at oldest
>>123666167Filtered
>>123666267>tranime watchers like slop like Rachnot surprise there
>>123666282>anime hater is filtered by gold like RachColor me shocked.
>>123665355>7 SegerstamI still need to check out this guy's recordings. Added his 4th the other day but it's pretty far down on the backlog.>>123663481I been meaning to work on a list sometime soon anyway; when I get home I'll post one.
https://youtu.be/34_SfP7ZCXA?si=qgze11i6VNC1g9QHMasterpiece
>>123663481Abbado, as anyone here knows and can tell you, produced the best Mahler cycle by far. The 9th is particularly breathtaking.
>>123666345abbado sucks
>>123666345You sound like me five months ago. Now I can only listen to his 7th with Chicago. But I respect the opinion, maybe I'll come to enjoy his two (three?) cycles again someday.
Life-affirminghttps://youtu.be/e9nJIY4o7l0?si=6i6opNeeIDmhNP67
let's start the day with Prokofiev's Cello Sonata performed by Rostropovichhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ALO7Qx-GgQ&list=OLAK5uy_k0T4xA29OGcy0FVEM-EqjrNRKHp7Xdof4&index=1One of the all-time great cello sonatas without a doubt.
>>123666392More like gender affirming
>>123666369You let the sistershitter brow beat you too much
>>123666308*tranime hater
>>123666487Hmm, yes....
>>123666506Dont lewd suzuha faggot
>>123666505the only thing virginier than tranime is vn
>>123663481as of right now, my current preferences stand as:1. kubelik (live or DG, doesn't matter)2. klemperer philharmonia3. haitink concertgebouw analog4. ivan fischer5. schwarz or chailly leipzig6. bernstein vienna7. abbado chicago8. bertini9. karajan live10. dausgaard>>123665355segerstam did a mahler cycle??? and someone actually listened to it???>>123664541>>123665993>>123666131>>123666267>>123666505>>123666506>>123666519not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try >>>/a/ instead>>123666345LMFAO
>>123663481If you want to hear every detail, Boulez once again has you covered. Whether you like his style or not, and I tend to think that the criticism of "coldness" is made by people who never actually listened to it, ol' Pierre gives you a view of the score like no one else.
>>123666697one of the worst mahler cycles on record, faux-literalist interpretations of music written by an extremely non-literalist conductor are fundamentally retarded
>>123663481Scherchen's bizarre interpretation of a bizarre symphony, both of which are a little bit beyond the orchestra's grasp, is brimming with charm and yields some fascinating insights. Most conductors, for understandable reasons, have real trouble making a convincing go of the finale, which is literally a day and night contrast to the preceding four movements, but with Scherchen there is this odd sense that when the theme from the first movement reappears blooming with wild dissonance in the "Rondo-Finale", that the music has really been aiming for this unification all along. Scherchen, for all his idiosyncrasies, is driven first and foremost by a love for the music, and his choices, no matter how strange they may be on paper, have a kind of "just works" unflappability to them in practice—even the orchestral players' obvious mistakes don't really seem to matter much in the face of the conductor's overwhelming and spirited approach. Truly magnificent, but definitely not a "reference" recording.
>>123663481Boulez is hugely underrated in Mahler. His level of understanding and affinity for his fellow conductor-composer is deeply felt, and his attention to detail would surely have pleased the exacting Mahler.
>>123663481Love him or hate him, Herbert von Karajan understood that recordings meant something. He preceded this one with two years (!) of rehearsals and worked on it over no less than seven sessions. Even then, it’s not quite perfect. There’s the missing tam-tam crash at the climax of the second movement, but for that you can always choose Plan B: Levine (RCA). Other really fine versions worth considering include Barenboim (Teldec, a nice surprise), the quirky Barbirolli (EMI), and the superb second Bernstein (also DG).This is a work that plays to Karajan’s strengths. Primarily, it demands supreme virtuosity from the orchestral strings and brass. Karajan and his Berliners are in their element here. It almost goes without saying that this version of the Adagietto is the most gorgeous in the catalog, and anyone who thinks that the period instrument no-vibrato crazies have a case after hearing this should have their heads examined. But it’s not just in lyrical passages where this performance excels; there’s the physical surge with which Karajan launches the second movement, his perfect choice of tempo for the opening funeral march, the noble trumpet tone he gets from Berlin’s principal player, and the inimitable opening of the scherzo (sample below), like the popping of champagne cork. It’s just the perfect sound at that moment.Best of all, Karajan offers one of the most cogent and contrapuntally dazzling accounts of the finale yet conceived, and unlike so much of the competition he absolutely nails the closing chorale, effortlessly. Actually Karajan’s Mahler, weird though some of it undoubtedly was (the Sixth especially), also brought out some of his very best work. It is very gratifying to see a performer treating this music with the care and caution it deserves, particularly when the results turn out to be nothing less than stellar. This many not be your only Fifth, but it must be one of them.
>>123666624>>123666522VN > Anime
>>123666839>piss > poop
>>123663481Eschenbach is the best Mahler conductor working today. That might seem like damning with faint praise, but in fact he can stand toe to toe with the old school greats and no mistake.
>this one is the best>that one is the bestYawn.
>>123666697>>123666765>>123666809>>123666822Very informative and much more helpful than the sister spammer. Thank you!
>>123667025recording recommendations are the best thing about the general by far.
Brahmshttps://youtu.be/rICaiUlgFCA?si=y3mPJTCkPv99WpWLHe took 14 years to finish it, but managed with its final movement to surpass Beethoven with his first symphony
>>123667212>brahms>ever surpassing beethovenhaha, lol, no.
>>123666822there's no fucking way that RYMtranny said this right? this is fucking hilarious>>123667029schizophrenia>>123667212i like brahms as much of the next guy, but this is seriously his worst symphony and the finale is utterly contrived
>>123666484lol good memory and observation skills but I genuinely don't like Abbado's Mahler anymore (still love Abbado in general tho), and me and him disagree on a lot of things, you'll see once he mocks my list in like 2 hours or so.
>>123666937I don't know about 'best' but his 1st, 2nd, and 6th are very, very good. Wouldn't place any on my highest tier for those works but right under or so? sure
what about Inbal's Mahler 1?
>>123668344I don't know. YOU listen to it and tell us.
>>123668344inbal sucks cock
>>123668446so he's just like you
>>123668469not quite, i'm afraid
>>123663438As a fan of actual classical music and not just shit used to put children to sleep and played in elderly homes these threads are always depressing as fuck.
please don't reply to the namefag, guys. You're better than this.
>>123664531>>123663899Tripping is quite literally a central part of germanic cultures lol. That or alcaholism. All the people /pol/ approves of existance prettymuch. New England is full of drunk people and drug sales.
>>123668659They're not,they think le heckin mozart is le peak intellectual kino fedora music and hate Claude Vivier and Dai Fujikara. They're literally retards.
Mozart on the other hand is more difficult to appreciate without an intermediate grounding in music theory and history, because the aesthetic conventions he perfected became templates which echoed through the centuries even to today. This is just because haters don't have an informed frame of reference. An uneducated person hears Mozart and just thinks "I don't get it... isn't this just a pretty melody?" whereas an educated person is able to appreciate the graceful organic transitions, the perfectly proportioned phrase shapes, the dense concentration of ideas, etc.I should add that it's perfectly okay not to "get" Mozart immediately. I'm not trying to shame anyone for being under informed, because nobody starts out knowing anything. My condescension is only directed at those arrogant plebs who, upon listening to and not enjoying some music by one of the most scholarly acclaimed musical geniuses of all time, immediately leap to the conclusion that _Mozart_ must be the weak link in the chain, and not their dumbass ears.
>>123668712>>123668712morelike generic. DESU I do like some pretty melody shit though,Haydn is cool.
>>123668644>>123668677>>123668691>>123668856not /classical/, try >>>/mu/ instead
Vegh Quartet.
>>123668974vague intonation
>>123668883>Mozart,Claude Vivier,Joseph Haydn and Dai Fujikara>Not Classical Musichow?
>>1236634811: Kubelik, Honeck, Solti (LSO), but desu there's tons of great ones2: Klemperer, Solti (LSO), also many many great ones3: Litton, Chailly 4: Michael-Tilson Thomas, Jurowski, also many great ones5: Bernstein (DG), Karajan, Kubelik (audite), Levine6: Bernstein (DG), Karajan, Chailly (RCO)7: MTT (LSO), Chailly (Gewandhaus), Kondrashin, Neumann (Gewandhaus)8: Nagano, Shaw, Bertini9: Karajan II, Chailly (Gewandhaus), Jesus Lopez-Cobos, Gilbertfull cycles: Kubelik (audite), Bernstein (sony and DG), Bertini, Chailly (Gewandhaus)partial cycles worth checking out: Levine, Fischer, Chailly (RCO), Solti (Chicago), MTTjust off the top of my head, probably missing some
>>123663481>>123669002oh whoops10: Dausgaard, Chailly, Slatkin, Ormandy
>>123669002>>123663481sorry for the triple post, forgot2: Mehta4: Levi
>>123668998not /classical/, try >>>/mu/ instead
>>123669346:p>>123663481>>123669002Also forgot:Haitnk (RCO) for the 3rd, 4th, and 6th; his whole cycle is worth checking out too
>>123663481my fav cycle is kubelik, his recording for literally every symphony is great though he does tend to be a bit faster which isnt the best in esp no.6individual recs:no.1 adam fischerno.2 klempererno.3 salonen, boulez is pretty solid toono.4 tennstedt studiono.5 boulez, mtt [avoid karajan]no.6 dohnanyino.7 desu kubelik is my fav but solti and bernstein dg are both solidno.8 witno.9 mtt, karajankindertotenlieder mttdas lied von der erde oue, boulez [walter is ok]frankly one recording is not enough for these works, you should really listen to the kubelik boulez and mtt cyclesi would avoid the karajan and bernstein cycles i think karajans recordings are ruined by the poor audio quality [especially the fifth] and bernstein just tends to be perversewalter just sucks ignore walter truthers who think he has to be great just because he knew mahler or whateverthough if you're interested in bernstein the earlier recordings in new york tend to be less selfish than the dg ones>>123665507fournier for old fashioned charm and either of wispelweys first two for something more inward
>>123669550Ah yeah that Solti 7 is fantastic. Dohnanyi for the 6th, really? Haven't heard it, didn't know he had any Mahler, but I tend to like his recordings so I'll check it out after I finish listening to these Segerstam ones.
>>123665507Fournier and Starker are my go-to's.
>>123665507casals, fournier
>>123665507Shafran
>>123665507ONLY Casals
>>123669581dohanyis sixth is by far the strongest recommendation i can give, i havent heard anyone else who comes closejust incredible balance between structural tension and that very desperate lushness the sixth hasi believe hes only recorded 5 6 and 9, all really underrated recordings imothe main issue w dohnanyi is that horrible decca production, the fifth and ninth just arent as clean sounding as they should bethe production is similarly why i dont like chailly although i think chailly and haitink both just suffer from a lack of elan/verve [mtt also has this issue to a lesser extent, see his fourth for example]i forgot to mention gielens cycle, his approach to the sixths finale is very much structural which desu i dont like [he very contrivedly holds back during the first couple expositions or whatever u want to call them] but otherwise the cycle is pretty solid across the board, just not rly distinctive in any way lmaomy fav kubelik cycle is the dg one, idk why anyone listening to audite is ok subjecting themselves to terrible audio qualityalso worth mentioning for the eighth is tennstedt live
>>123669730Yeah Wit and Tennstedt (live) 8s are both very good. I'll def. check those Dohnanyi ones out, thanks!
Favorite/recommended recording(s) of Bruckner 1 and 2? Might finally give them a close listen today.
>>123670022jochum dg and skrowaczewski are both pretty ok, been listening to poschners cycle recently and hes punchy in a good waydidnt rly like wand for the first, too windyjochums sonority is more string based which lets the winds stand out more as opposed to turning into some kind of brahmsian soup
pic related is pretty good (though kinda weird to put Blumine at the end/after the symphony but I guess I get it), excited for Segerstam's other recordings! Does he have any other good recordings from other composers worth checking out?>>123670074Now that you mention it, I think I've only listened to 3-9 off of Jochum's Dresden (so EMI) cycle lol, so I might as well go through 1-9 off of his DG one. Skrow I do like a lot. Poschner I listened to one of his 8ths and it was aiight.>turning into some kind of brahmsian soupNot a dealbreaker for me actually!
Anyone have the Heidelberger Kammerorchester recordings of the brandenburg concertos?
>>123670259absolutely amazing gif
>>123669550actually foul recommendations
>>123670351got anything better?
>>123670351I don't agree with a lot of his picks but anon knows what he likes and appears to have tried a good range of recordings, gotta respect that, what more can you ask? His post makes me wanna revisit the Kubelik DG and Boulez cycles, also MTT's 5th.
>>123670385already posted>>123670399the kubelik DG cycle is good, but thinking that it’s in any way better recorded than the audite cycle is fucking absurd; people avoid the DG cycle precisely because the production is dogshit. also MTT and boulez’s cycles are complete garbage and comical to recommend.
damn Bruckner 1 is a lot better than I remember, superb!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIPRXNzieBU&list=OLAK5uy_kW7CrYmH6YGdc9FzGPuQdEpP0wtb-R6yE&index=1
>>123663481I guess everyone else is sharing their favorites, so why not.>1Kubelik>2Klemperer, Stokowski (live, mono)>3Haitink, Chailly>4Fischer, Chailly (Gewandhaus), Mengelberg>5Chailly (Gewandhaus), Leinsdorf (Chicago), Rosbaud, Walter>6Bernstein, Mitropoulos (NY)>7Chailly (Gewandhaus)>8Bertini, Kubelik (Audite)>9Karajan II, Chailly (Gewandhaus)>10Dausgaard>Das Lied von der ErdeKlemperer, Schuricht, Beinum
>>123670669v. nice
Since we're on the topic, feel like mixing it up with what recording I'm gonna listen to of Mahler 3 today, what do would you guys pick from:Abbado (either Vienna or Berlin), Boulez, Zander, MTT (San Francisco), or Sinopoli?I can't decide, there's too many!
>>123670796how’s none of the above?
>>123670850They're all mentioned in Duggan's survey is why.
>>123670796Zander, since you're a masochist.
>>123670874:pThanks.
>>123670861duggan is a fucking retard, news at 11
>>123670442You could probably make the argument for 3 sounding better in the DG variant I guess, the one on Audite has a kinda weird sound to it. But at least the dynamics are normal, which is most certainly not the case for the DG version lol
When I'm on /classical/, I'm at home.
>>123669550>>123669730What do you think of MTT's 6th?
best recording of Mozart's string quartets?
>>123663438That's pretty good anon
>>123671165I like Talich
>>123670259dont know
>>123665037Sounds too shrill
>>123671117It's a good general if you don't read the posts
>>123671033the DG kubelik mahler cycle has a dynamic range of mf to ff, no idea how anyone could consider that good sounding. >>123671163terrible, even the corny ass 9/11 one
>>123671163i actually quite like it, i think its one of his better efforts and i listen to it relatively oftenthe finale is a bit too intentional for me, he has some strange accels going into the first hammer blow iirc, but sometimes i want thatbut the allegro and scherzo have some great heft to them without as being super ponderousandante is pretty drawn out but i dont mind
>>123668998He's just a retarded spammer Nico, pay him no mind
>>123671477this is demonstrably false [did you listen to the dg adagietto??] and it beats just straight up not hearing half the instruments over the hiss in like the audite sevenththe brso trumpets come across especially great in the adagio of the first in the dg recording [part of the reason i have such affection for dg kubelik and mtt is that they get really distinctive brass timbres]there are obviously some moments that arent great, i wish the timpani were miked a bit closer maybe but the finale of the seventh sounds just finethe bass can be a bit weak [see measure 93 of 5.iii, the low brass are basically inaudible] but otherwise i think the recording aesthetic is pretty greatid definitely take it over like boulez's third where you basically have to listen in a car and turn the speakers up to 209384 to hear anything
>>123671578at any rate, kubelik sounds just leagues better than the undifferentiated slop of the chailly recordingstalk about playing too loud
>>123671520Fair enough lol
>>123671596oh people mentioning haitink's third are definitely on the mark, forgot about thatonly the concertgebouw could get the solo in the third movement to sound like that, meant to recommend at least one concertgebouw recording but bernstein's 4th and 9th are just sloppyhaitink's fifth is alright i guess but not my favorite, i think he has worse dynamics than kubelik www
>>123671578It sounds to me like you just enjoy dynamic compression.
>>123671520>>123671609not /classical/, try >>>/mu/ instead>>123671578we get it, you don’t like dynamic range. don’t pretend that everyone else is like you though.
>>123671477>terrible, even the corny ass 9/11 onelol what>>123671483Nice, I'll give it a listen tonight, thanks.
I seriously don't understand how anyone could come away defending the DG Kubelik recordings. They're not all equally horrible sounding, but to cite the recording of the 5th especially as a case of superiority just baffles me. The opening of the 2nd movement has never sounded more murky and unnatural than it does here:https://litter.catbox.moe/pp9oe6.mp3The brass sounds like it's been seperately miked, in a different acoustic, and then overdubbed in, and the absolute mud of the lower string section in tandem with the unnatural shrillness of the brass and percussion comes together to make a really disgusting sonic profile.https://litter.catbox.moe/gdzuo6.mp3Meanwhile on the Audite version we have a far more natural balance and dynamic range, not to mention no mud or shrillness. I think you can make arguments that the DG one is certainly more lively, and that it does indeed have a more clear perspective on the anitphonal effects, but the base sound is just so unspeakably ugly.I will grant that the Audite 7th sounds like shit, though. It's one of those ones where there isn't really a clear winner in regards to DG vs Audite.
>>123671798is there a favorite you have for the sixth?
>>123671609He's just a spastic attention seeker
>>123671833>but to cite the recording of the 5th especially as a case of superioritythe fifth is the one i complained about! i think the trumpet solo at the start is stellar though but like i said i have a soft spot for the dg trumpetsunfortunately the perspective on the horns in the scherzo is a bit monotonous the audite version sounds just a bit soft/blunted to me and i wish the brass were a bit more forward! if ur lacking the volume of the vienna/sf brass then what r u gonna do, this is just the profile of the orchestrai dont like kubelik's 5.ii very much anyway, but the phrasing at the start of the scherzo more than makes up for it anywayim generally happy w the low strings in the kubelik recordings, see the start of 3.i for example or even 3.vi, i agree it is suboptimal [where is the drum at the end of the intro to 3.i?] but i just dont think audite is better
>>123671798>https://web.archive.org/web/20140912161502/http://www.shopsfsymphony.org/shop/product.php?productid=802&cat=22&page=1>This recording was made at the SFS concerts of September 12-15, 2001, immediately following the events of September 11 and captures a passionate response to that day.corny ass crackers
>>123671762>123671762i dont think theres anything wrong with more straight laced recordings, not everything has to sound like bernstein and for a composer like mahler where the structures, vertical spacing, and instrumentation/colors are all completely unique i think listeners benefit from hearing a variety of approachessymphonies are impossible to record, everybody knows that there are tradeoffs and the only solution is to read the score and see what aspects different conductors and yes recording aesthetics can tease out
>>123671938ur too smart to be reading blurbs man come onjudge the performance on its own merits
do we have a list of historical running times for performances of Mahler 7?
>>123671520Nico is worse
>>123671944what are you telling me this for?>>123671954the performance sucks and the blurb just makes it even more embarrassing than it already is
>>123671838If I had to choose one, maybe Haitink's with the RCO, followed by Chailly's also with the RCO or Bernstein's on DG. I used to love Solti's the most for a while but these days I prefer a more emotional reading over his characteristically aggressive, thunderous one, but I still really like it.
>>123672259I was just thinking about that actually. I'm not sure myself, the SP does tend to stay here that's the only positive thing I can say about them(although someone claimed they post BM on /metal/)
>>123671938The funniest part about this is it's an obvious copycatting of when Bernstein performed Mahler 2 on television after the JFK assassination. Not that I have a problem with either, in fact I think it's kinda neat and heartwarming, I'm all for national displays of the arts for important, historical moments, but I know how much you like to poke fun about the Bernstein-MTT thing.
>>123672469i wonder if MTT was raped in the ass by bernstein as a kid or something, the way he apes daddy B like cory feldman aping MJ is fucking uncanny
da fuq
npNow that I've been in the mood for slow tempo recordings I'm re-listening to some of my favorite works in that style. So, favorite slow recordings of Brahms? I already plan on re-listening to Giulini and Bohm, but anyone else? Also curious about slow Beethoven as well.
>>123672547I wonder what he's talking about?
>>123672617Y'know what... this actually kinda sucks. Can barely even hear the main theme in the 2nd, first movement, because the melody is so stretched out to the point of disintegration, and the rest is stilted, like the music is skipping rocks for the same reason. That's lame.
now playingstart of String Quartet No. 2 in A Major, Op. 68:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pUMFaHqvkY&list=OLAK5uy_n_E92sCRsyusjnxW0H-oECNte4k6s-Ckw&index=25start of String Quartet No. 5 in B-Flat Major, Op. 92:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7C0VSKXRY8&list=OLAK5uy_n_E92sCRsyusjnxW0H-oECNte4k6s-Ckw&index=2Surely the best string quartet cycle since Beethoven...
just listened to mahler. this sounds like disney music. wtf? it sucks and it's simplistic junk
>>123672943the best quartet cycles since beethoven are mendelssohn and schoenberg. shostakovich doesn’t even compare.
>>123672949I'm guessing the first symphony?Try these out:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsclK5ytvAghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX4uXYtvz_0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6QrTySyNo8
>>123672949>this sounds like Disney musicother way round retard
>>123672943>Surely the best string quartet cycle since Beethoven...nah
>>123672996you realize how meaningless this is to a listener's assessment?
is the emperor concerto ok to bring a wom*n with me or she will get bored?
>>123673061Women will love that piece.
>>123673033no I don't, because who the fuck listens to music unaware of its historical context and period? do you watch black and white movies and go "wtf this bullshit has no colors!" too?
>>123673061if she likes you it doesn’t matter
Did Haitink make so many recordings of the same works just for the $$ or did he really think his interpretative views on them had evolved and he was doing a better job? This one is pretty excellent, for example.
>>123673143it was obviously for $$, his interpretations literally got worse over time, not better.
>>123672958>mendelssohnI should revisit those, been too long.now playingstart of String Quartet No. 5 in E-Flat Major, Op. 44 No. 3, MWV R28:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OELz9uBZgK0&list=OLAK5uy_lcKhzpPhZGqLA5Gr0RrrjZlMhISCFWoBQ&index=18start of String Quartet No. 6 in F Minor, Op. 80, MWV R37:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pfsfiuoUoo&list=OLAK5uy_lcKhzpPhZGqLA5Gr0RrrjZlMhISCFWoBQ&index=21
>>123673143Many of those recordings are incidental. Live recordings. That is to say, stuff he was performing as part of his job and the mics were rolling. It was always money first.
>>123673238hideous cover art
>>123673238have you listened to leipziger on those string quartets?
>>123665355>>123666556>>123669002>>123669550>>123670669Cool. Now do Beethoven
>>123673307I was actually gonna ask for recording recs for it! I have not. I think my old favorite used to be Melos or Talich.
>>123673245Good point.>>123673222That Bruckner 6 is stellar but on the whole I agree, makes sense. I guess I was just curious if there were any other counterexamples or if he said anything on the subject or any thoughts in general.
>>123671938lol
>>123673436>1Leibowitz, Toscanini ('39), Golovanov>2Leibowitz, Scherchen, Mengelberg>3Scherchen (stereo remake), Leibowitz, Monteux, Schuricht, Toscanini (take your pick), Szell>4Mengelberg, Scherchen, Monteux, C. Kleiber, Schuricht>5Markevitch, Furtwängler ('42/'47), Scherchen, Dorati>6Scherchen (stereo remake), Paray, Monteux>7Leibowitz, E. Kleiber, Mengelberg, Paray, Szell, Dorati>8 Scherchen, Markevitch>9 Leibowitz, Schuricht, Fricsay, MengelbergKinda silly to have so many choices but that's what happens when you collect so many favorites over the years.
>>123672949>Mahler
>>123673912Do you still try modern recordings or have you just given up on them satisfying your preferences?
>>123666556Have you heard Levi's 6th?
>>123673902absolutely pathetic>>123673985i don’t like any of levi’s mahler.
>>123673912i’ve grown tired of fricsay’s beethoven, i’m surprised you haven’t too. i can’t stand such turgid versions of the adagio anymore.
>>123673985Ah fair enough, just asking because it's got a pretty fast tempo so figured you might like it.
>>123672632I don't think even he knows
>>123673436not sure about the rest by my fave 7th is Porcelijnand 9th is Leinsdorf
>>123673436Just listen to Karajan's and call it a day.
>>123674062do HIPtards seriously>>123674079dogshit beethoven conductor
Does the Schlomosister dislike Karajan because he was a Nazi? That's the real reason right?
>Yes, it is. It is very strange, but with our race and in our latitude, rhythmic control is the most difficult thing for a musician to achieve. There is hardly a musician among us who can play the same note five times without minor variations. Part of the fault is that rhythm is never taught correctly to young musicians. For the Negro or African, it comes naturally - this sense of rhythm. As for myself, I can tolerate wrong notes, but I cannot stand unstable rhythm. Perhaps I was born in Africa in another existence. Once in Vienna after we had finished a recording session, I surprised everyone by telling them I was going to hear a Louis Armstrong concert. When they asked why? I told them that to go to a concert and know that for two hours the music would not get faster or slower was a great joy to me.
>>123674111i like karajan. i dislike his beethoven. not that hard to understand, rachjeet.
>>123674138You're fooling no one schlomo
>>123674130this explains perfectly why karajan was such a bad conductor of german music
>>123674165if you insist, rachjeet
>>123673954There's a few that I selectively enjoy. Harnoncoirt has a great 5th from 2007 that was never released on CD due to some spat between the players and the record label.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHVVujGECOMIt's one of those rare HIP recordings that has actual balls. Jarvi has a nice first. Generally speaking the issue with modern Beethoven is all the guts has been taken out of it. I'm sure there are exceptions to that rule but they're surprisingly rare. Everyone follows the metronome markings fairly well these days, but they do so as if there's little love left for the music. Maybe there is. >>123674007His tempo for the Adagio is far from my ideal too. It's more of a balance thing for me, I rarely find that there's a performance of the 9th that nails everything I want. Fricsay excels in a few spots that I maybe overfocus on, like the first movement recapitulation, or the tempo of the double fugue in the finale (many conductors play it way too safely). He also has one of the better soloist quartets and the balance between them, the orchestra, and the chorus is pretty tightly woven.
>>123674194i’m far more satisfied with schuricht in both of the sections you mentioned. i just can’t be bothered with the excessively string heavy sound of the berlin phil anymore, even when karajan isn’t at the helm.
>>123674271Fuck man, the sound of the orchestra during the fugue of the development section in the 1st movement always blows my mind in the Schuricht recording.
btw, since no one mentioned it, favorite recordings of Das Klagende Lied?
>>123673238love the cherubini recordings. did u hear the cycle quatuor van kuijk put out recently?>>123674194jarvi is so close to being good! wish it were a bit weightier in the allegro. love schuricht's beethoven and bruckner 8>>123674444haitink is pretty good i think, should be on the same disc as that old mahler 3>>123673912any love for furtwangler's sixth? bohm is great for 2 and especially 4
now playingstart of Symphony No. 8 in C Minor, WAB 108 (ed. R. Haas from 1887 & 1890 Versions):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmxv2O4pMPI&list=OLAK5uy_k0PB7XT--sNJh4908fv_O-cetHQjCydKQ&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k0PB7XT--sNJh4908fv_O-cetHQjCydKQ
>>123671483Finishing up listening to it now -- funnily enough I thought the Andante and Finale were the standouts, very well done, and I'm most picky about those two because I think most can do the opening movement and the scherzo pretty well so the real make-or-break is in the second half imo (but of course I think some do the first half better than others haha). I don't know if it's one of my favorites yet, but will definitely revisit in the future! Gonna listen to his 5th tomorrow, and I think with that I'll have heard his whole cycle (always put off his 3rd, 5th, and 6th because I hadn't heard good things), and will probably listen to his 9th again soon.
>>123674520Not familiar with them but will check it out after I listen to the Cherubini set, thanks!
>>123674555glad you liked it! imo the first movement of the third is just pretty droopy, i think the other movements are pretty solid but i'd take a good first movement over good inner movements any day desudefinitely good to have that more romantic approach to phrasing in the second movement compared to boulez typeshis adagietto definitely takes some getting used to, hated it the first time i heard it
>>123674520>any love for furtwangler's sixth?I like the Wartime one.
>>123674526Man, what have I become where even this level of sound quality is too distracting for me? I used to listen to these kinds of recordings all the time -- gave in and switched to the Giulini recording instead :/ sorry Kubelik...
>>123674616If you're going to listen to a mono Bruckner 8, at least listen to the King.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfVqQQCgnMg&list=PLCauWPBCoppgFp0Iv4UFyqIcuO1s09EUs&index=2
>>123674678lol you guys really love van Beinum around here. Saved that playlist for next time, thanks. I decided to switch to the Giulini one because I'm hoping after having heard Celibidache's Bruckner, Giulini's won't seem so slow to my ears anymore and I'll be able to enjoy it more, haha.
>>123674707He was a GOAT. Would have made the GOAT Mahler cycle had he lived to do so.
>>123674422literally no other recording brings out the string tremolo that occurs in the resolution of that fugue and i have no idea why. it totally changes the texture of that section. >>123674707van beinum was a genius. too bad so many of his recordings are in subpar mono.
any of you have recordings you like of messiaen's vingt regards? been on serkin and beroff lately, still kind of getting into the work
>>123674850unlistenable RYMtranny shit
>>123674821Yeah, it's one of those details I'm always looking for when listening to other recordings now.
>>123675193i’ve never heard it elsewhere, and frankly it cements my belief that the only correct performance practice of beethoven is (was) french performance practice. no german wagnerian bullshit.
>>123674130this explains perfectly why karajan was such a great conductor of everything
Intro to the first movement is played way faster than normal, but for my money he somehow makes it work. I'm just conflicted on whether or not it can still be classified as "langsam" (although Mahler asked for Sehr Langsam in the score to the 5th's adagietto and then played it much faster).https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1iZvtgEa1E
>>123663481fuck everything but this:1. Kubelik2. Klemperer live3. Levine4. Boulez5. Tennstedt live/Bernstein ny6. Kurt Sanderling/Barbirolli7. Abbado cso8. Nagano9. Karajan live10. Gielen completionDLVDE. Klemperer
>>123675733Bernstein dg for 5*But ny is raw and underrated
>>123668644What classical music do you enjoy?
>>123676128A lot.Most: wagner, beethoven, brahms, sibelius, bach, stravinsky, bruckner, handel, schumann, strauss, verdiLesser heralded: bax, janacek, schmidt, furtwangler, wolf, ives, simpson
>>123670259Nobody got it?
>>123673436No. 3: Van Kempen or SchurichtNos. 5 & 6: Amsterdam/Erich KleiberNo. 7: Karajan '77No. 9: Karajan '63
>>123675733>4. BoulezWow! finally someone else who likes that recording. The slow movement is paced perfectly and the orchestra sounds marvelous
>>123670259Cute pidgeon
You can only choose one type of classical music to listen to for the rest of your life>Orchestral>Keyboard>Choral>ChamberThis means no concertos, choral symphonies or any mix.What would you choose?
>>123676757Kinda poorly defined, most religious people will have to pick choral because thats what they do in liturgy. Do you mean for secular listening specifically? If so, I guess keyboard.
>>123676757But what about solo violin and cello? What about violin sonatas accompanied by keyboard? Does that fall under chamber music?>no concertosSome of the greatest compositions ARE concertos, fuck that question I wanna listen to Brandenburg 5
>>123676757Bach cantatas it is then.
The internet is full with the story of Beethoven and his sixty coffee beans. According to this legend he counted exactly sixty beans, sometimes even double checking them, before making his own cup of coffee, something he liked orient style. Although this story sounds like something he would do, there is no credible evidence for this anecdote.
>>123675733>3. Levine>4. Boulez>5. Tennstedt live/Bernstein ny>6. Kurt Sanderling/Barbirolli>8. Nagano>10. Gielen completionROFLMAO
>>123670259Piggin
I just really like Abbado for Mahler. Let the attacks commence without explaining why I'm wrong.
>>123677857delusional levels of unwarranted self importance
>>123677869He has one of the few recordings where you can actually hear the bells ringing at the end of the 2nd. I don't why there isn't even a recording with real church bells as the artist intended.
>>123677899>as the artist intendedincredible how this bullshit line by dr dre’s marketing team is still regularly quoted by golems today.
>>123677869>>123677931Aggresive little piece of shit. Pathetic loser.
I thought I found a good CD recording of Machavariani's violin concerto, turns out it was a very old, bad quality recording. I'll only have the youtube version, shame.
>>123678323laughably impotent rage
>>123677670How can you possibly dislike the Sanderling 6th or Nagano 8th?>>123675733Nice. Really gonna have to give Boulez another try.
>>123677857Nothing wrong with liking them. To my ears these days they do seem to possess a certain one-dimensionality and restrained since of phrasing, but I do intend on trying them again someday and maybe I'll come to love them once again.
>>123678413nothing wrong with *thomas sanderling, but barbirolli’s 6th is one of the worst mahler recordings ever made and nagano is a nothing conductor with little to add to the music.
>>123678480>nagano is a nothing conductor with little to add to the music.Fortunately I have the same autistic memory as you, so I'm pretty sure you said you hadn't listened to it. Or have you since then and genuinely don't like it?
let's start the day with continuing to listen to this>>123673238start of String Quartet No. 2 in A Minor, Op. 13, MWV R22:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2C8BDgP705o&list=OLAK5uy_lcKhzpPhZGqLA5Gr0RrrjZlMhISCFWoBQ&index=5
>>123678489i sat through it not too long ago. disliked the intolerably slow second half more than anything.
>>123678547Okay, fair enough. Sad to hear you didn't enjoy it. Just out of curiosity, what's your second favorite 8th? Or do you think Bertini's is heads-and-shoulders above the rest?
>>123678561i think kubelik’s audite recording and bertini are probably about on par. i just default to bertini out of laziness.
>>123678571Yeah that one is pretty great, though desu I've enjoyed most that I've heard (from Boulez to Rattle), the only one I can't really sit through is Chailly's Gewandhaus recording, something about it is just... off. His RCO is great though.Also I'm embarrassed that I never knew Karajan had a Das Lied recording, excited to listen to that today.
>>1236634811. Rattle2. Rattle3. Rattle4. Rattle5. Dudamel6. Rattle7. Rattle8. Dudamel9. Rattle
>>123678684have not heard the chailly gewandhaus, i’ll get around to those eventually, though i still feel like something about the sonority of the gewandhaus rubs me the wrong way. >>123678703bait is supposed to be believable
>>123663481As for the song cyclesLied von der Erde: Ludwig/Wunderlich/KlempererKindertotenlieder: Ferrier/Walter [EMI]Rückert-Lieder: Forrester/Fricsay
>>123678799kathleen ferrier sucks cock
>>123678822O well, Kindertotenlieder aren't very good to begin with.
Wagnerhttps://youtu.be/0XJS50igb_c?si=pPavGyvmA-1BWXgs
>>123678870Yes. A tremendous recordinghttps://youtu.be/utGRU484zQA?si=v2KwI0PvmXJfu0rH
>>123663481Bruno Walter is one of the most important figures for us in this list, not only because he performed and recorded a great deal of Mahler's music, but also because he was one of Mahler's closest friends. In his biography of Mahler, Jens Malte Fischer draws our attention to Mahler and Walter's relationship being very much like that of adoptive father and son. If anyone knows Mahler, it's Walter, even among the other contemporary or near contemporary accounts available to us, Walter offers us the most significant glimpse of what Mahler's own performances may have sounded like.
>>123678847they’re infinitely better than what kathleen ferrier has to offer>>123678928they’re honestly not that close to mahler’s conducting style, all things considered. as far as not missing featured like mahler’s rubato and string portamenti, mengelberg is more similar, though he adds on a lot of his own… interpretative decisions as well.
Wagnerhttps://youtu.be/D3H1fqN552E?si=1Yx1DClha_IhVqPM
Wagnerhttps://youtu.be/XpAd7yTQOY4?si=kvTr_JCF77it9PPh
>>123678761Haven't forgotten to upload the 24 bit variants btw, just need to re-rip them and I have a backlog of things to upload on top of that
>>123679055it’s all good, i’m not in any urgent rush to hear them
>>123678928I'll never get tired of this anecdote:>The Third Symphony is Mahler’s hymn to the natural world and his longest work. It was largely composed in the summer of 1895 after an exhausting and troubling period that pitched him into feverish creative activity. Bruno Walter visited him at that time and as Mahler met him off the ferry Walter looked up at the spectacular alpine vistas around him only to be told: "No use looking up there, that’s all been composed by me."
>>123679290i’ve visited the mountains that mahler was referring to. he was right.
>>123679420Haha looks exactly as the 3rd sounds? That's dope.
>>123679455it’s the contrast between the monolithic alps and the unending sea of pastoral green fields beneath that the first movement really captures.
>>123676653>>123675733Listening to this now and it is pretty great, though to be honest I maintain that there are so many great 1sts, 2nds, and 4ths that if I were recommending one to someone new to these works, I'd probably just suggest one with the best sound quality, so Levi, Jurowski, Fischer, etc. Not that ANY sounds fine, but there's a large range. I mean just in the past two weeks as an example, for the 2nd I think I've listened to Chailly's Gewandhaus, Fischer's, Slatkin's, Tennstedt (LPO live), Levi's, and Eschenbach's, and sure Klemperer's might edge them out if I had to pick one but they're all stellar imo. Same with the 4th and 1st.
>>123679485Any pictures?inb4>Yes, but it's in audio form and it's called the 3rd Symphony.
now playingstart of Symphony No. 4 in E-Flat Major, "Romantic":https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1UVFWZG2yU&list=OLAK5uy_mkrbOYuyDhufy5MeJPvmoLWbE5MFNqRNo&index=1https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mkrbOYuyDhufy5MeJPvmoLWbE5MFNqRNoAlso added Kurt Sanderling's recording of the same work. Excited for them both!
Wolfgang Amadeus Mozarthttps://youtu.be/Av3-UzemGnQVery nice performance, does Katsaris improvise his cadenzas or was this one pre-composed? Absolutely awesome part either way.
>>123680098I like when you use that picture, the expression is perfect for the posts you use it on, it can be both inquiring or assertive. I should listen to some Mozart piano concertos today, what are your favorite recordings for the ones 17 and above if you don't mind? No HIP pls.
>>123680137Can't go wrong with Annerose Schmidthttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY7D5SBSBuo
How's François-Xavier Roth as a conductor?
>>123680137Edwin Fischer
>>123680172Neat, thanks. I also quite like Masur, so I'll definitely listen to these recordings. Also lol at how different the album covers are for this recording of the 20+21, this one and...
>>123680172>>123680204...this one lol.>>123680182I think I've had those saved for a while, I should def check them out, thanks.
>>123679553i’d have go to looking for them>>123680176he’s better at being a sex pest, put it that way
>>123680204>>123680220Annerose Schmidt is my favorite for when just picking out and listening to one of Mozart's piano concertos. Most consistently good set IMOWish Karl Böhm did more recordings of Mozart's piano concertos, the few he did are great.
>>123680176Pretty bad.
>>123680280>Wish Karl Böhm did more recordings of Mozart's piano concertos, the few he did are great.Yeah his are the very first ones I ever heard, definitely shaped my expectations for how they should sound, still love them today. On the flip, the other one I 'started' with was the Gardiner set, and I hated that from the very beginning lol.
>>123680321Gardiner reminds me, he taught me a very important thing: you can actually assess the quality of a recording of Bach's vocal works by it's cover art. Is the cover art secular? Performance is probably shit.
>>123680367LOL love that rule-of-thumb
>>123680367real as fuck
Anyone have Altenburger's "5 concertos" album?https://youtu.be/_YHhW0Gu4GYI love how clear the separation of the soloist and the orchestra is
>>123678897>Kegel determinedly deconstructs the Grail Processional Music and the Good Friday Spell, trading gravitas and solemnity for a sprint through the park.Any recording with the word 'deconstruct' floating around it is anathema to me.
>>123680496There's a retarded opinion for every recording, anon. If you're letting that stop you instead of just listening to it and making your own opinion, then you may as well not listen to anything.
>>123680535I didn't say I wasn't going to make my own opinion. Just choosing a super fast tempo and sticking with it the whole way through is really stupid. I get for a lot of the narrations it may prove successful, but not for the large orchestral sections. Still, it is interesting to hear.
>>123680577>Just choosing a super fast tempo and sticking with it the whole way through is really stupidWagner liked his works to be played zippy. Hermann Levi premiered it at around 4 hours and 4 minutes, but Wagner incessantly complained about Levi's and Richter's tempi in both Parsifal and Der Ring. We don't know exactly what timings he would have preferred for the whole work, but we do know that 4.04 and 14.30 (for Parsifal and Der Ring respectively) was considered too slow by Wagner's tastes. Probably around 3.50 is perfect for Parsifal, which leaves Kegel quicker still, but I do feel as if his flow brings out the emphasis on speech-melody and rhythm in the score which is oft lost in other recordings.>'It is not I who conducts Parsifal faster but rather you in Bayreuth who have got slower and slower. Believe me, what you are doing in Bayreuth is all wrong.' (Richard Strauss)>"The Master [ie RW] has already composed Parsifal to be very slow, so one doesn't need to add to this by also conducting it slowly." (Richard Strauss to the orchestra during rehearsals)
>>123677670Barbirolli tends toward the idiosyncratic but it's a classic for a reason. If you want paint by the numbers in Mahler just listen to Haitink or Bertini cycles endlessly. I prefer the more idiosyncratic interpretations in most of his symphonies: Bernstein, Boulez, Tennstedt, even Solti at least in 5 and 8.Mahler 9 is his only symphony I count among my favorites and in addition to the Karajan live I rate Boulez and Sanderling highly.
>>123663481I have said before that many conductors like to make a wet handkerchief of Mahler's music—well, the Ninth may just be the greatest victim of all. After all, who could resist those swooning strings and the grandiose brass climaxes? It turns out that Salonen is one who can, turning in a light, balanced, and fresh feeling take on this often overdone work. But "resist" is the wrong word. This is full-tilt Mahler, just without the imprinting it is so often smothered with.Salonen takes the marking "Andante comodo" literally, and turns in a first movement of a little under 26 minutes, a little faster than Barbirolli. This is probably closer to what Mahler had in mind than the near or even over 30 minute renditions we often hear. Also like Barbirolli, Salonen stresses balance across the four movements, with the closing Adagio being near enough even in length with the first. The fast inner movements are brisk, and the third movement's "interior moments" may seem to pass you by, but in its way this is appropriate to the sarcastic nature of the movement, and it's only in the finale that that theme comes back to hit you in the face with full force.The recording quality is excellent and lets you right into the orchestra, which plays with cleanness and enunciation. Like Boulez's Chicago Ninth, there is nothing in the music that fails to make it out into the air. Though it is faster and less affected than a recording like Bernstein's, it is never rushed or devoid of impact. While I guess you could say it doesn't reach the highs that more excessive or old school approaches can yield, for the sound quality, excellence of playing, and the conductor's light and easy touch, this may well be the best introduction to the Ninth on record.
>>123679832One of my new favorite recordings of Brucker's 4th, highly recommended if you want a more sensitive, emotional, introverted reading of the work, compared to, say, Bohm's fantastic and classic recording which is more aggressive, extroverted, and muscular. Good to have both styles to listen to when wanting different things.I've said it before, but to me, Bruckner's symphonies have the most drastic range of interpretative possibilities, both in melodic phrasing and emotional tone.
>>123680704>Barbirolli tends toward the idiosyncratic but it's a classic for a reasonbecause it was one of the first widely available recordings of the 6th, and boomers latched onto it like flies on shit. it's fucking garbage just like every other barbirolli and horenstein mahler recording that the geriatric bastards uphold. >If you want paint by the numbers in Mahler just listen to Haitink or Bertini cycles endlessly.false dichotomy. also 2 very different cycles despite according to you being "paint by numbers". it's almost like there's more to mahler conducting than "paint by numbers" and taking a fat constipated shit all over the score like barbirolli. >I prefer the more idiosyncratic interpretations in most of his symphonies: Bernstein, Boulez, Tennstedt, even Solti at least in 5 and 8.so you like bad mahler conducting. got it.
>>123680704Based. I should revisit that Barbirolli 6th, I remember actually quite liking it until it went off the rails in the final movement, but maybe I'll enjoy it more at the moment as I tend to enjoy more idiosyncratic recordings these days. In fact maybe I should finally listen to his other ones (I've only heard his 5th and 6th). And I agree with you about Bertini's cycle -- very well-done, and definitely one of the cycles I'd first recommend to someone new to Mahler, but, outside of the 8th, I personally have no desire to listen to it again anymore as it's too plain. I think you're underselling Haitink's too.
>>123680700>Wagner liked his works to be played zippy.But when he took over the baton from Levi, at the second Verwandlungsmusik, his conducting was so slow that the orchestra struggled to follow him. I agree with you on the speech-melody and dramatic rhythm part, but, again, with those big orchestral sections I think it needs a greater subtlety than just zipping by.Also, wasn't his problem with Richter that he got the tempo modifications wrong, not the overall speed?
Favorite set of Beethoven's Piano Concertos? Gonna listen to this one next. Also added Weller's Beethoven symphonic cycle, which I've heard great things about. I've only heard his Prokofiev and it's one of if not my favorite, so I have high hopes.
>>123680727Let me guess, you're a Rattlefag.
>>123680901you’re so comically far off the mark that it’s hilarious. what an idiot.
>>123680841>But when he took over the baton from Levi, at the second Verwandlungsmusik, his conducting was so slow that the orchestra struggled to follow himTrue, but he still bullied Levi for being slow. Perhaps he was just bullying him for being Jewish.>Also, wasn't his problem with Richter that he got the tempo modifications wrong, not the overall speed?It was both, from the comments he left. There's also that quote that Rheingold shouldn't take more than 2 hours flat to go through. Perhaps an unrealistic expectation but earliest Bayreuth records of Das Rheingold from Siegfried Wagner and Heinz Tietjen have tempi that are substantially faster than today.
>>123680746Haitink is fine, I feel much the same about him across all composers. His Brahms concertos and occasionally Shostakovich are all I really return to.
>>123680934I get the feeling Wagner was knowingly exaggerating what was possible just to push the Bayreuth orchestra as much as possible.
>>123680934>>123680954I think he was being hyperbolical, but regardless good fast conductors such as Keilberth have no problem taking Rheingold in 2h15m.
last Mahler post for the day -- let's try...29:27 10th Adagio?? wtf. whatever, let's try it. It's the 8th I'm most wanting to listen to right now anyway.>Finnish conductor Leif Segerstam recorded a very impressive Mahler cycle for Chandos, nowhere more so than this extremely impressive, and above all well-recorded performance of the mammoth Eighth Symphony. The title is a misnomer, not only in terms of the number of people required to do the work justice, but also because Mahler as often as not treats huge forces like a series of chamber ensembles. If you expect nothing but huge sound effects, you're apt to be disappointed. So it's important that the conductor prove himself adept both at traffic management during the loud bits, and at sustaining interest in the many quiet, lyrical passages. Segerstam clears both hurdles, finding the right balance between introspection and opulence. Very satisfying. -- David Hurwitzif anyone else wants to listen as wellSymphony No. 10 in F-Sharp Major: I. Adagio:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-w2vbvtMsU&list=OLAK5uy_nd8xkpjqIfHdXBuPtwWOP4jLS7yFYavow&index=2start of Symphony No. 8 in E-Flat Major, "Symphony of a Thousand":https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NymgoLSYA4&list=OLAK5uy_nd8xkpjqIfHdXBuPtwWOP4jLS7yFYavow&index=2
>Glazunov, Rimsky and Rachmaninov were discussing the Piano Concerto and they were all in agreement that it was a terrible and dreadful work. One said, “Scriabin has lost his mind!” Another replied, “He never had a mind to lose!”.
Why is violin such a prevalent instrument in classical music
>No, Dad! I don't want to listen to Shostakovich!
>>123681143>>123681259lolLove Scriabin but that piano concerto does kinda suck
anyone who takes the Scherzo from Mahler 6 at the same speed as the first movement is a retard. It's obviously meant to be faster.
>>123681165Same reason guitar is so prevalent in rock. Hopefully someone gives a better answer, but pretty much it's a great instrument with which to build the base of an orchestral work on because of the variability of its sound, which makes it a great tool to orchestrate with. Plus it just sounds great.
>>123681165Ikr. That's one of the reasons to listen to Varese, no faggy violins.
>Scriabin mysteriously died in Irpin in Kyiv Oblast, four years after the death of his father. His body was found in the Dnieper river.>mysteriouslyWhat happened to him?
>>123681455died of a pimple
>>123681471That was his father
>>123681165think of any other non-violin soprano range instrument. i guarantee you that they have some sort of issue with a specific part of their range or with the technical aspects of their playing that forces composers to write around them with restraints in mind. this virtually does not exist for the violin, on top of its limitless ability to execute tremolos, glissandi, vibrato, harmonics, trills, play large chords (rolled); if you can think of it, the violin can probably do it. and on top of that, it sounds beautiful throughout its range and effortlessly cuts through orchestral balances. can you blame composers for relying on it as a workhorse instrument? >>123681259i don't either, poor kid
So here is the Mahler recordings - the /classical/ choices. (I might have made couple of mistakes, but should be mostly accurate +/-):1. Kubelik (4)2. Klemperer (5)3. Chailly (5)4. Fischer (2)5. Leinsdorf (Chicago) (2), Chailly (2)6. Bernstein (Vienna) (3)7. Abbado (Chicago) (2), Chailly(Gewandhaus) (2)8. Bertini (3), Nagano (2)9. Karajan live (5), Chailly (Gewandhaus) (2)10. Dausgaard (3), Chailly (2)Cycles: Boulez (3), Kubelik (2), Karajan (2)How well do YOU think this reflects on the objective quality of the recordings?
>>123681567if 4 isn't Kletzki's the list is worthless
>>123681591Sorry, he's only got 1 vote.
>>123681567looks pretty good aside from boulez as a cycle. i'm surprised leinsdorf is as popular as he is in the 5th given the relative obscurity of that recording>>123681591a great performance, but there's obviously something about it preventing people from considering it as top tier.
>>123681567Chailly is boring but fine. Other than SQ I don't know what makes him stand out. Karajan never finished the cycle, but his contributions are noteworthy IMO, especially the 9th live 1982. Kubelik is a nice pick for a cycle, everyone seems to agree on that. I'd put one of the Abbados after that one, but it has the problem too for me of being unremarkable (his interpretations don't really change across cycles, unlike Bernstein).
>>123681775>but his contributions are noteworthy IMO, especially the 9th live 1982.that's literally the only mahler recording karajan ever made that's worth a shit. all his studio mahler recordings are horrible.
>>123681817His 6th is noteworthy too, but I don't care for 5 or studio 9th. If I've heard more than that I don't recall.
>>123681836his 6th fucking sucks. there is nothing more unidiomatic for mahler than strict timebeater tempos and string heavy orchestral balances. his live 9th is remarkable in spite of this, not because of it. >If I've heard more than that I don't recall.he also did a studio 4th and das lied von der erde that no one knows about because they're complete garbage. heaven knows why anyone talks about his 5th and 6th when they aren't any better.
>>123681567>>123681759Erm, that should be the Leinsdorf/Boston recording. I don't think anyone here has heard the Chicago one other than me. Unless I'm mistaken lolThe Boston recording is on RCA. The Chicago one in my list is from a private tape
>>123681884le rubatofag has arrived
My time of music listening in a day is filled by bouncing back and forth between Mahler and Bruckner, with perhaps one or two works from other composers. God, I should take a break from them but nothing else scratches the itch for me at the moment.
>>123681892yes one of the votes was from me and I definitely meant Boston
>>123681897yeah, the rubatofag's name is mahler. you know, the guy that infamously spurred the complaint that his interpretation of beethoven's 9th took a different tempo in every measure.
>>123681897It's Mahler. Rubato is inherent in his music, have you even read his scores?
>>123681932sounds like a shitty aspect of his that we should fix now that he's dead
>>123681140This is okay, nothing special, if anyone is curious.
>>123681945i'm glad we agree that you don't actually like mahler.
>>123681884Well it's Karajan, you're going to get the processed Karajan sound in the strings. Some really hate it and while it's far from ideal for Mahler it is interesting. The Mahler 9th and 6th are the most Brucknerian of his symphonies and thus benefit to a degree from Karajan.
>>123681989>The Mahler 9th and 6th are the most Brucknerian of his symphonies
>>123681986well if liking Mahler requires one to like the single worst aspect of classical music performance that has ruined more recordings than anything else combined then I am God damn proud of HATING Mahler even.
>>123682012lol
>>123682026Just listen to MIDI recordings from now on
Is there any baroque sonata with BC you'd actually consider a great work?
Mahler fucking sucks
>>123682045No worries, more for me!
>>123681989>The Mahler 9th and 6th are the most Brucknerian of his symphoniesyou have no idea how retarded you sound right about now. what the fuck is brucknerian about either of these symphonies? do they have triple exposition sonata forms in their opening and closing movements? do they have an excessive reliance on tremolos in the strings to create orchestral texture? do they have scherzos and trios that both strictly adhere to ternary form? if the answer to all these questions is no, then what the fuck is brucknerian about them? having 4 movements???>>123682026glad we could come to such an easy agreement. now fuck off.
>>123681892>>123681914As I said, I'm sure I made some mistakes as the exact recordings weren't specified, nor am I familiar with him. Which means 5 should only have Chailly I guess.
>>123682067The Boston one is fine too, just has that weird ass Dynagroove sound when RCA started multimiking the shit out of things and kinda compressing the sound.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynagroove
Kek, Schoenberg's so Jewish he thinks about music in terms of property and ownership.
now playing, let's get van Beinum!start of Violin Concerto in D Major, Op. 61:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aewt-dtjos&list=OLAK5uy_lkLrZphn2PtjIpSkYNySuq43fj7JUK0gw&index=1start of Symphony No. 2 in D Major, Op. 36:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5XIiHmgqz4&list=OLAK5uy_lkLrZphn2PtjIpSkYNySuq43fj7JUK0gw&index=4https://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lkLrZphn2PtjIpSkYNySuq43fj7JUK0gw
This is so good
Gonna go for a walk and feel like listening to Schumann 4. Recommended recording(s)?
>>123682132It's probably the worst music I've ever listened to if I'm being honest.
>>123682140Konwitschny
>It's probably the worst music I've ever listened to if I'm being honest
>>123682054Nobody does sonata form like Bruckner. The 6th is easily Mahler's most "traditional" at least in the Beethovenian sense. He rips off the Beethoven 9th finale structure sans vocals for his 6th finale. The Mahler 9th self consciously mirrors the Beethoven 9th in each respective 1st movement. You seem to suffer greatly from autism, being unable to take a broad view of artistic structures in spite of rigid details, and therefore the following will likely result in more sperg sputter but which Mahler symphony is the most Brucknerian if not either 6 or 9?
>>123682179Thanks!>>123682170lol>>123682183Christ...
>>123682170>a rare schoenberg haterDon't have time to spoonfeed newfags but start at Op. 4 and work your way through the rest, you'll eventually get it kid
>>123682132Kegel is the GOAT in that work
>>123682224kegel is pretty good in the SVS in general
>>123682184>The 6th is easily Mahler's most "traditional" at least in the Beethovenian sense."traditional" in a beethovenian sense means nothing when beethoven was the most radical of the classical composers. what you're trying to say is that it's his most formally classical symphony, which is correct. this has nothing to do with bruckner. >He rips off the Beethoven 9th finale structure sans vocals for his 6th finale. i'm sorry WHAT? the finale of the 6th is an extended sonata form, what does that have in common with a gigantic theme and variations exactly? i'd love to see your crockpot formal analysis of both pieces, it'd undoubtedly be extremely entertaining. >The Mahler 9th self consciously mirrors the Beethoven 9th in each respective 1st movement.AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA this is some actual crackhead shit. tell me where the 20 minute long development section is in the first movenent of beethoven's 9th, i must have missed it. >but which Mahler symphony is the most Brucknerian if not either 6 or 9?none of them, because mahler never aped bruckner, you fucking idiot. this is like saying that mahler 10 is his most bartokian symphony because he uses arch form, pure crackhead bullshit.
>>123682184>You seem to suffer greatly from autism, being unable to take a broad view of artistic structures in spite of rigid detailsyou seem to suffer greatly from making up bullshit on subject matters you are obviously hideously uninformed in. you should solve this by shutting up and not trying to talk about things you don't understand.
I wonder if Mahler 7 would be good walking music. Gonna try>>123665355>7 SegerstamHope it's good.
>>123682350The Nachtmusik is nice for, well, walking at night.
>>123682384lol maybe I'll save it for later then. Schumann 4 (Konwitschny) it is.
migrate now>>123682411>>123682411>>123682411>>123682411
>>123682184>Nobody does sonata form like Bruckner.What about Schubert?
>>123680895I return to the Perahia set regularly. Where did you find that? I can't find that.
>>123684468https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k-V0SOtFUNxLiK7QrFsIXYcS-nEhqKn2Ehttps://music.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k-V0SOtFUNxLiK7QrFsIXYcS-nEhqKn2E
>>123673912All the fifths you mention have horribly slow tempo. That's making van Beethoven super doll.
>>123684481Ty, I meant for download but I will buy if good. Always curious what there is to find one private trackers, thought you maybe had it from there. Keep on recommending sets. I really want one where the audio is good enough you hear the introduction of the first violin (?) in the last movement of the 4th concerto.
>>123684554Well not really introduction, it's played alongside with the piano introduction but it's very difficult to hear in most recordings.
