The young Bach editionhttps://music.youtube.com/watch?v=kDY_4n9PHLQDiscuss classical music in the Western (European) tradition and instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?By listening to classical music; stop being neurotic. Previous: >>127556229
let's get Transcendentalhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FkhdHWEYpU&list=OLAK5uy_kYNO6CrnUH_DApPnczkgMZwIayILtzydQ&index=8
I heard that Bach did not compose for piano even though it was available in his day. Does anyone know why?
>>127591322>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgen
>>127591378If you need to read a book to appreciate classical you shouldn’t be listening to it in the first place. You were filtered but you are in denial.
Reminder Bach and after, before and not including Ives.
>>127591397Yes, we remember that you are a pedophile
Young Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MskEY3GQHI0
Lisiecki!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VL9w8CnuJA&list=OLAK5uy_mAG9JpOt49H-OXVqyfpYWM67cu7xV5X9c&index=15
>>127591525speaking of Lisiecki, I went looking for his recording of Chopin's Preludes, and my god, the blurb is so eyerollingly pretentious,>Canadian star pianist Jan Lisiecki showcases the kaleidoscopic world of the prelude. Taking the notion of the prelude as meaning something "that comes before," Lisiecki asks: "Can a recording project be composed entirely of such introductions, then, one leading directly into the next, and still be profound?"ughhhBut he still might be my favorite modern 'slow Chopin' performer, so I look past ithttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDfoFisLsLc&list=OLAK5uy_lkwuxBxTGOFVHjpr4RM1THL26HIuR8s3g&index=29
>>127591525Chopin*
>>127591377Because Bach didn't care for the piano
>>127591663Goes without saying
>>127591377Because Bach was experimenting with counterpoint, the Harpsichord allows you to hear the individual voices of a fugue; the piano (especially today) is an atrocious instrument for contrapuntal works.
>>127591782I’ve never heard of this Lisiecki. I think you are so accustomed to talking to yourself all day that you forget that people have distinct interests.
>>127591833KOEK. I bet that anon is the same karen crying about the lack of talkboomer link 127591378He be grooming n shot
>>127591833>I’ve never heard of this Lisiecki. I think you are so accustomed to talking to yourself all day that you forget that people have distinct interests.Which is exactly why I point out the performer name instead of the composer, because the composer needs no advertisement.
>>127591882Performer of whom?Most people are not interested in the performer in their own right.
>>127592067The picture and link have the composer and piece name.
Been a bit since I listened to anything choral. Let's finally listen to this recording of Berlioz's Requiem I've had my eye on for a while.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV1h7FKsKJw&list=OLAK5uy_mPHO27_a4H_9iLbXGyVNtAxPhVXy0pF5o&index=1>Berlioz’s (sic) conceived his Requiem for extraordinarily large forces: the score asks for over 100 stringed instruments, 20 woodwinds, a percussion section with 16 timpani and 4 tam-tams, 20 brass players within the orchestra and an additional 38 brass to form 4 brass choirs placed at the four corners of the stage. The minimum number for the choir is 200-some singers, though Berlioz asks that if space permits it, the number of singers be doubled or tripled. The work’s first performance in December 1837 involved over 400 people and this new recording involves 400 musicians.
>>127592090Why would I click on your links about some guy that I have never heard of? Maddeningly presumptuous of you.
>>127592146In truth, it's because there's already another poster who just pairs the name of the composer with the link, and I didn't want it to look like I was copying their post, so I opted to go for the performer name instead. Plus it's more fun for me. Happy?
>>127592172That makes even less sense…
>>127592198But it does! Anon, if you're not gonna take this discussion seriously...
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NkoOclYkJQ
Why do Asians love Chopin so much?
Is being a choirmaster a different skillset than a regular conductor? Can you be good at conducting a choir but poor at conducting an orchestra, and vice versa?
>>127592243Asians love the overt show of emotion, which is why they also love Rachmaninoff.
>>127592249Yes. Hurwitz has a good video on this, actually. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Ai_I4CAZMThe major exception to the rule that most people bring up is Herbert Kegel, who was both a supreme choirmaster and a orchestral conductor.
>>127592264Neat, thanks.
>>127592259Why though? Asians aren’t stereotypically very emotional. It’s like Chopin helps them experience emotion.
now playingstart of Schubert: String Quintet in C Major, Op. 163, D. 956https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubh8nG1khQ0&list=OLAK5uy_n4DO9dIU6dt_6dIydMUVd9NO1fYomQMeg&index=2start of Schubert: String Quartet No. 15 in G Major, Op. Posth. 161, D. 887https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WP27VKTPdUg&list=OLAK5uy_n4DO9dIU6dt_6dIydMUVd9NO1fYomQMeg&index=6start of Schubert: String Quartet No. 14 in D Minor, D. 810 "Death and the Maiden"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YBRtuesyog&list=OLAK5uy_n4DO9dIU6dt_6dIydMUVd9NO1fYomQMeg&index=10https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n4DO9dIU6dt_6dIydMUVd9NO1fYomQMeg
>>127592281It's difficult to articulate but,>It’s like Chopin helps them experience emotion.is close enough. Art allows them to sublimate their emotions.
>>127592290>ugh we have to go WHERE for our album cover? >and with our instruments too? fuck
>>127592264>Yes. Hurwitzstopped reading there
>>127592305i heard they were all mauled by bears minutes after taking the pic.
>>127592281Deep down, I think, Asians may be more sentimental than Europeans. Still, it’s not culturally acceptable for them to show it. Perhaps because overtly romantic behavior in the aggregate has severe negative consequences for a civilization. Confucianism may have been an emergent phenomenon that developed to check this impulse. Chopin’s music may cause the emotion to ‘bubble out’, overcoming their socialization.
>>127591377Both answers you got are trolling.The only thing Bach's piano had in common with today's piano is the sound producing technique. It didn't sound anything like the modern piano. And Bach DID compose for the piano, he just never specified he was composing it. The only thing he didn't compose for it was the Goldberg Variations (which is for harpsichord specifically). Well-Tempered Clavier is composed for any keyboard instrument, including the piano. All his clavier works are composed for a keyboard instrument, meaning piano, clavichord, harpsichord, or organ. Had Bach known how the piano would evolve, he would specify that all (or most of) his keyboard works are to be played on it.
>>127592243>>127592259>>127592281>>127592298>>127592436A study found positive correlation (.34) between preference for sad/minor key music and fluid intelligence and openenness personality trait:https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2016-29171-002Since East Asians have highest average IQ, it's not surprising that they overwhelmingly prefer Chopin.
>>127592469Bach was, first and foremost, an organist, and his job was instructing future organists for the church. Most of Bach’s non-organ keyboard works served a pedagogical function of instructing organists; Bach wrote such pieces in a way that mimicked the technical requirements of the organ but could be played on available instruments like the clavichord.
>>127592281that's not even true, you have a ridiculous idea of asian people, Asians often appear emotionless due to their rigid facial structure and lack of facial muscles, which prevents them from displaying emotions like we do, however, they do experience a range of emotions that are evident in their mating rituals and, in some cases, care for their offspring. During mating season, male asians engage in competitive behaviors, such as combat and elaborate courtship displays, to attract females, showcasing their emotional investment in reproduction. They communicate through body language and pheromones, indicating strong emotional responses to potential mates. some asian species will incubate their eggs by coiling around them and using muscle contractions to regulate temperature, demonstrating a protective instinct and emotional attachment to their young. Thus, despite their seemingly emotionless exterior, Asians possess a complex emotional landscape that influences their reproductive behaviors and interactions with their offspring.
>>127592469What are the BWV numbers of Bach’s piano sonatas/concertos?
>>127592436>>127592281Asians are repressed and projecting faggots of which Mishima is a notable example.
>>127592469Counterfactual. Bach may as easily have forbidden the piano (like his modern acolytes) because it is an atrocious instrument for contrapunctal performance, owing to the blurring of voices (which is absent in the organ>With the piano:>The tone and timbre of notes can be quite “wide” and encompassing, and bleed into others with ease, especially at certain dynamic levels and especially when playing in the same range; even sans pedal. Also, no matter how well you play and how you try to keep the voices at the same volume, unless you’re a machine you won’t be able to perfectly do it - you simply can’t cause all ten fingers to play at exactly the same level of force at all times - there’s always subtle variations in what the fingers are doing. And so, there’s always a risk that some notes in a voice may be a bit ever-so-slightly quieter and ever-so-slightly lost in the shuffle of the other voices.https://forum.pianoworld.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/3428145/why-bach-preferred-harpsichord-over-puano.html
>>127592626*contrapuntal
>>127592556The same number as "keyboard concertos".>>127592626>because it is an atrocious instrument for contrapunctal performance, owing to the blurring of voices (which is absent in the organThat is factually incorrect. Piano is the best instrument for polyphonic music, especually imitative forms like a fugue. Piano allows the player to empahsize any voice, or none at all. Harpsichord does not allow it, clavichord is much weaker at it. I don't need to read your pasta to hear the difference, I play some Bach myself.
>>127592664>polyphonic That is mor3 general than counterpoint and hence fugues. Anyway, what you have described is homophony rather than polyphony.>empahsize any voice, or none at allThen, by definition, it’s not counterpoint. In order for a composition to display counterpoint, the voices must be independent. If one voice dominates, the other is dependent, and you don’t have any counterpoint. You have effectively conceded the argument. The piano is a terrible instrument. After all, it spoils counterpoint as it is impossible to play without emphasizing a particular voice.
>>127592808>That is mor3 general than counterpoint and hence fugues.No. I mentioned, "especially imitative forms like a fugue." so any confusion should've been gone. >Anyway, what you have described is homophony rather than polyphony.Thank you musically illiterate sister.>Then, by definition, it’s not counterpoint.You have never read definition of counterpoint from any literary source, ever. >In order for a composition to display counterpoint, the voices must be independent.Voice independence exists in basic chorales and harmonies. >If one voice dominates, the other is dependent, and you don’t have any counterpoint. Speaking of musical illiteracy.There is no such rule in strict counterpoint, which says that voices are not allowed to be louder or softer. You are misinterpreting the rule that says all voices must have equal value, meaning they must all be *melodically* flawless, strictly abiding to rules of voice leading.Source: any counterpoint pedagogue, starting from Fux.>You have effectively conceded the argument.Much appreciated musically illiterate sister.
>>127592910may I join this discussion?
Why are there almost no recordings that play Clavier Ubung II and III properly? Clavier Ubung I (6 partitas) is often performed properly, though in the wrong order for no apparent reason, Clavier Ubung IV (Goldberg Variations) Is performed properly as well, as is Clavier Ubung V (Art Of Fugue). But then II (Italian Concerto and French Overture) is never performed as one piece, usually either the Italian Concerto or the French Overture get played seperately, played in the wrong order or get their momentum broken up by an unrelated piece like the Chromatic Fantasia and Fugue (Like in Walcha's case) and III I rarely see proper full recordings of and are often instead just huddled around in collections of Bach's organ music instead
>>127592910You don’t seem to grasp what counterpoint is. Counterpoint requires voices that are harmonically dependent, but rhythmically independent. Admittedly, I was somewhat confused myself when I said that the voices must be independent.When you are emphasizing one voice, then the counterpoint is spoiled because the voices are no longer harmonically dependent.
>>127593024>Counterpoint requires voices that are harmonically dependentno it doesn't. I'm with the sister poster on this one.
>>127593024>When you are emphasizing one voice, then the counterpoint is spoiled because the voices are no longer harmonically dependent.LOL. You just made that up, because you're illiterate. You don't understand what harmonically interdependent means. It has nothing to do with dynamic shaping.
>>127593062Dynamic shaping influences harmony significantly.
>>127593101please leave. you are clearly retarded.
>>127593101Performance has no effect on the score.
Why do people criticise Szell for conducting like Toscanini when they like Toscanini?
>>127593154Because if 1 guy does something, nobody is ever allowed to do anything like that guy
>>127593115>>127593106>>127593062The point is that on the piano, you necessarily end up emphasizing one voice; even if it isn’t your intention. The piano is accordingly a mediocre instrument for the performance of JS Bach’s contrapuntal works.
>>127593206>, you necessarily end up emphasizing one voice; even if it isn’t your intentionFalse. Good pianists have great control of each voice without muddying up the sound. Nothing happens unintentionally in Richter's WTC, which is the best WTC recording out there.
>>127593216>Great pianists can overcome the constraints of their instrument
>>127593249It isn't a constraint at all, the opposite. It allows pianist to be vastly more expressive.And you've been shifting goalposts.
>>127593301False.
>>127593016But they aren't one piece.
>>127593414>nuh uhI accept your concession. Piano reigns as the supreme king of contrapuntal writing.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QC5vptDt_Lc
If emphasizing the voices can do nothing to spoil the counterpoint, emphasizing them voice can’t enhance counterpoint either. Why then is the piano necessary for Bach’s contrapuntal works?
>>127593499*emphasizing the voices
>>127593491>emphasizing the voice can’t enhance it either.It can. Soprano is naturally the most prominent, ear-grabing register, so empahsizing subjects in contrapuntal pieces that are played in bass or inner voices are often desired if not necessary to give more expressiveness, depth and logical sense to the piece. Piano is the most expressive acoustic keyboard instrument, and almost always preferable to harpsichord, unless the appeal for you is harpsichord's timbre more than the composition itself.
>>127593512The piano is too expressive. That was the point made way back here >>127592626
>>127593526Romantic composers taught us the importance of expressiveness. There's no point in stripping away expressiveness from a piece of music unless you're actually too retarded to appreciate it. Your point made about counterpoint there was refuted.
Brahmshttps://youtu.be/qVJrTCp_EuI
Why are string quintets with contrabasses so rare? Seems kind of the obvious fifth instrument rather than just adding another cello. Even sextets dont have them, why?
>>127593894Selling out to Brahms now, I'm disappointed in you maho.
>>127593918But I've posted his music before D:I dislike Brahms as a person, but I like plenty of his pieces. I wouldn't name him among my favorite composers overall, but his fourth symphony is of my favorite works.
Is there a reason why I naturally drift towards writing baroque and classical era music without actually listening a lot of baroque, simply because I like to put more 8-16 notes on my MIDI piano roll and do random weird gymnastics with my MIDI notes over just doing simpler 4 notes melodies like modern music?
>>127593902Too heavy for a chamber ensambles. It can muddy up harmony and overwhelm other instruments.>>127593949>I dislike Brahms as a personWhy?
now playingstart of Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 22 in E-Flat Major, K. 482https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuU3YSrVUmg&list=OLAK5uy_k_QDTFwL0YZQUcH9S5xirr1c_hC4SZc_o&index=2start of Mozart: Piano Concerto No. 25 in C Major, K. 503https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfHWKjbsOjk&list=OLAK5uy_k_QDTFwL0YZQUcH9S5xirr1c_hC4SZc_o&index=4https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k_QDTFwL0YZQUcH9S5xirr1c_hC4SZc_o
>>127594126>Why?nta but he was pretty rude and self-absorbed to people and also kind of pathetic and impotent in his personal life.
>>127594140You mentioned you didn't care for Mozart's concertos, how about this movement from C minor concerto:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBOPqh5Z534It's hard to not love this one
>>127594162He was sceptical, cynical and based as fuck, I don't know what you mean.
>>127594172Thanks for sharing. While it's undoubtedly good, I think there's just an unbridgeable distance of pathos for me when it comes to classical era music, something inherent in the aesthetic and ornamentation. Even for the Mozart I do like, it's there, like with the string quartets/quintets and symphonies and other assorted concertos. The piano and violin sonatas are probably the closest I come to genuine enjoyment and resonance with Mozart.I still try every now and then, seeing if things change. Thanks for trying.
>>127594178>ITT: Composers that remind you of yourself>For me it's Brahms – intelligent, nihilistic and with a wicked sense of humor.
>>127594237It's the same for me, with exception of some of Mozart's piano concertos, symphonies, quintets, sonatas, fantasias and other works, mostly because they have infectious melodies. But classical era is generally too primitive and uplifting for me, it lacks grand climaxes, dissonances or intricate orchestration/piano techniques I'm looking for.I find that movement especially heart gripping, the piano and orchestra have great dialogue, and piano melodies are magical.>>127594275lol. But nah, it's Chopin.
>>127594275for me it's Hauer.>depressed, schizophrenic, frail, anti-social and will probably die alone.
What is Bach's best composition???
>>127594338>I find that movement especially heart gripping, the piano and orchestra have great dialogue, and piano melodies are magical.It was good enough for me to finish listening to it, which is saying something because normally with the concertos I can't even get through a movement these days without changing to something else, even though on a surface and logical level I recognize the quality in what I'm listening to.>But classical era is generally too primitive and uplifting for me, it lacks grand climaxes, dissonances or intricate orchestration/piano techniques I'm looking for.For sure. Hell, I honestly enjoy Beethoven's early piano concertos more than I enjoy Mozart's late ones, and I know that's generally considered blasphemy.
>>127594338>But nah, it's Chopin.Chopin wasn't nihilistic and didn't have a sense of humour.
Besides CPE Bach, what are some other composers that are extremely important to the tradition yet underappreciated by people in the modern day?
I don't know why I find it so strange, because they're obviously very different works, but I find it odd no one, aside from Nikolayeva, whom it was written for, who has recorded Shostakovich's 24 Preludes and Fugues has also recorded Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier. You would think there's a natural symmetry and connection there.Anyway, came across this new (came out three months ago) recording of Shostakovich's Op. 87 that's really good, so, y'know, give it a try if interested,https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF_xsNFctJc&list=OLAK5uy_m_4n-q8buY0UqpUfNZE6QCIKjtAMMN4wY&index=40It's truly the ultimate nighttime listening.
>>127594441Logier.
>>127594407>It was good enough for me to finish listening to itGlad to hear. I have a strict self-etiquette myself and I never switch to something else until at least a movement is finished. You'll never know what the composer intended to convey until you finish it, IMO.>>127594397Passacaglia and Fugue in C minor
now playing, more David Fraystart of Schubert: 6 Moments musicaux, Op. 94, D. 780https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yC8T0SBOys&list=OLAK5uy_k9seJxGdPXWx4G3dU1Vfj6uPv6sxVIAcU&index=2Schubert: Allegretto for Piano in C Minor, D. 915https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIgYHE0E4AY&list=OLAK5uy_k9seJxGdPXWx4G3dU1Vfj6uPv6sxVIAcU&index=8start of Schubert: 4 Impromptus, Op. 90, D. 899https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58FyUEuKXLs&list=OLAK5uy_k9seJxGdPXWx4G3dU1Vfj6uPv6sxVIAcU&index=8https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_k9seJxGdPXWx4G3dU1Vfj6uPv6sxVIAcU>David Fray has declared his particular affinity with Austro- German music, and after two CDs featuring Bach and a DVD of Bach concertos he now programs Schubert. His approach to the music is typically questioning and illuminating. "At the piano," he told the French magazine Pianiste, "I try to make music like a conductor, not just as a pianist. I approach the score as if it is a reduction of a symphonic work. The piano constitutes a way of getting nearer the heart of the music.">"The interpretation is always generous, enthusiastic and rich in contrasts. The fast movements appeal with their healthy energy, exuberant humour in their finales and lyricism throughout. No moments of tension stiffen the pianist's phrases and he gives free rein to the sound," -- Le Monde de la musiqueHe also has some Bach recordings I wanna check out -- I already praised his Goldberg Variations here before, and then there's a recording with the second and sixth keyboard partitas, plus a recording of some of the violin sonatas performed with one of my favorite contemporary violinists Renaud Capuçon. Also added a Chopin recording which has some assorted pieces on it, like a few Mazurkas, Nocturnes, Impromptus, etc. All of this is to say, all of it is worth checking out. I only wish he had more releases! He's still young. Also, random, just found out he's married to the conductor Riccardo Muti's daughter, huh.
>>127594481>Glad to hear. I have a strict self-etiquette myself and I never switch to something else until at least a movement is finished. You'll never know what the composer intended to convey until you finish it, IMO.I used to do that, and same with books where I'd try and finish it if I got somewhat deep into them, but with some combination of no longer wanting to spend time on things I don't enjoy + giving in to and indulging my attention span issues, I no longer do it. I figure once I've decided I'm not gonna finish listening to the entire piece anyway, then what's the difference, why complete the movement when I can come back to it later at another time, on another day, with perhaps another recording, and fully complete and properly enjoy it then.
>>127594397the Cello Suites. honorable mention to the Mass in B minor and the Goldberg Variations
>>127594526>giving in to and indulging my attention span issuesThat has to do with your dopamine levels. I'm trying to overcome my scrolling addiction too to focus on better things. But it's interesting that you love Mahler and Bruckner so much, but still struggle with attention. Lol.
>>127594397Chaconne
>>127594573lol when the art is good enough, it overcomes!But also, lately I've begun to suspect it's not entirely attention span, and perhaps that feeling I get of a pressurized hole in my brain, telling me to change to something else, is only part attention span, and is equal parts "this isn't doing it for us, change to something else."> I'm trying to overcome my scrolling addiction too to focus on better things.Yeah I'm debating ditching the smartphone entirely when at home, and deleting all TV shows from my computer. Too much time wasted on those, and like you said, it has a detrimental effect on attention span. Ideally, when at home by myself, I'd only be reading (mostly books but quality articles online are worthwhile too), writing, or listening to music, maaaaybe watching a serious, quality film. That'll jumpstart the process to healing the brain. Alas...
comfy album coverhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnT4fyZH6O8&list=OLAK5uy_neyDCP9jHpdju-PWDiqkdH6Ch4gfHZJhQ&index=2
>Hey a cantata by CPE Bach, let's hear i-https://youtu.be/JIL6jMhleK8?list=RDJIL6jMhleK8Why the fuck is this allowed? There aren't any other recordings I can find, I hate HIPsters so fucking much
>>127594734I think it sounds nice. What's the problem
>>127591378>muh emotionsholy pretentiousnotice how he doesn't mention emotions even once:https://www.youtube.com/shorts/x7Bnyi65m8Ea good song only needs to be a few minutes long to make millions of dollars
>>127594784It sounds like a unmusical jumble of noise, like all HIPster garbage does. Just a bunch of gimmicks thrown together which make the music sound like fucking shit.
>>127594646>>127594573Plus, full disclosure, one of my biggest issues when listening to classical music is this: I love looking up and reading about other recordings and pieces and composers and performers while listening to music, and oftentimes, like on a daily basis, I'll come across something tantalizing enough to make me wanna switch and listen to that instead, and even if I resist at that moment, the thought begins to fester, to where I begin looking at how much time is left on the piece I'm currently listening to, and depending on how much there's left and how much I'm enjoying it, I might give in and switch. Fortunately I love Mahler and Bruckner enough to where I'm good listening to their entire piece without needing to switch, but yeah, no one else is immune. It's a real problem. Almost makes me wish I had a record player so the physical act of selecting a recording, taking it out, setting it on the turntable, and dropping the needle to play is enough of an investment to deter me from making the switch so easily.
I'm ready to commit and declare this is the best Beethoven piano sonatas cycle of the 21st century. Do yourself a favor and check it out.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYT5W9ieXns&list=OLAK5uy_l0G4ysfxJaw5g1r-J3khIyjGjikSN1VTM&index=49
>>127592469>>127592543so you know all these details about bach's life but what did he say specifically about his emotional intent or is it just wankers making up their own interpretations long after he died?
>>127594819but muh emotional journey
>>127594646>for usIt's over. Back to psychiatric hospital. LOL>Too much time wasted on those, and like you saidYup. I quit shows and anime as well as video games. It's really only for instant gratification, and has no everlasting rewarding effect like classical music and literature does.>>127594837That's relatable. Sometimes I get the urge to listen to something else, but that usually happens with Schoenberg.>Almost makes me wish I had a record playerSame. Almost like we're enabled to be lazy attention deficit monkeys by everything and everyone around us, huh.
music sounds nice or it sounds like shit, the emotions can be whatever, of course you can communicate a general vibe and transition between different vibes but it's not like a literal story with depth to it purely in musical context without visual/lyrical cues
ngl I love Mozart's 24th as much as 23rd, it's gotta be S tier, favorite recordings?
>>127595048https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR05ek-6Gus&list=OLAK5uy_meDuTrbJ0-XZ6DmcCYra-Rd4S7BTT9Iy8&index=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJhoYDlOi84&list=OLAK5uy_k0cW0CpvKzM79yOO8F03SmxuXsB3ZB-7Y&index=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAFc03iUMcw&list=OLAK5uy_mfXhNfkySN3QhFGPB1s2HF9kouBs_k1Os&index=4One of these ought to do the trick
>>127595048This Serkin/Abbado 23+24 pairing is dopehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEhGIsuWgs8&list=OLAK5uy_mqaFAQ2jMnxpfNCRp9EXeBE1Q43AWBVPc&index=4
>>127595072>>127595083I've listened to all of these lol, except Kissin. I guess I'll revisit Uchida's. Apparently I know enough recordings already. But thanks.
>>127595048>>127595115https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pONdi7lvVJY&list=OLAK5uy_lico75uGg0t5HCMZykjKWXgI7uXuqeGIg&index=1real big sound shit
>>127595048Do people not usually consider the 24th concerto to be one of his best works? It and the 20th have always been my favorites. Mozart's minor key pieces are a treathttps://youtu.be/wrA810VCJ54?list=OLAK5uy_kLikg-Vuw5oj7iFRM5Zrhvegh70NSewdU
>>127595138>big soundit's been artificially processed like any pop recording>The other great thing we did at Decca, when you were getting the sound right, was to monitor at very low volume levels (it was called 'listening at granny's level' because I think as you get older – and I’m getting there myself! – everything always sounds far too loud), because if you turn the volume down the speaker is not working at its maximum efficiency – but if it still sounds presentable, if you're still getting an impact from the musicians, and you've still got acoustic around the sound, then it will sound good when it's tuned up loud. Everything sounds good when it’s turned up loud because your ears are saturated, the room is saturated, but you can't really judge - so if you turn the volume way, way down, and if it still sounds convincing, then you've hit the nail on the head. The other thing is to go out of the room, maybe take a walk around the block, and let your ears completely reset. That's a very good maxim.
>>127595138Okay something neu>>127595159My list is here: >>127587674And of course I love both.
>>127595190i meant the large orchestra and that signature full-bodied, aggressive, booming Solti sound
>>127594441Haydn.
feel like listening to a new recording of Bach's French Suites today. Anyone know of any recordings with a slow and/or romantic interpretation? Kinda like Maria Tipo's or Koroliov's sets of the Six Partitashttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOrZNPOz9iU&list=OLAK5uy_kgIDgCo9-Y3Ge_qzbkY8rpRQ42556UyYU&index=30
>Today I will remind themBABAB>DAILY REMINDER>DAILY REMINDERIAAAAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWOIKCtjiw&list=RDKyWOIKCtjiw&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLugJIWdpCM&list=RDtLugJIWdpCM&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-utT-BD0obk&list=RD-utT-BD0obk&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxx7Stpx7bU&list=RDcxx7Stpx7bU&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCoOqsxLxSo&list=RDkCoOqsxLxSo&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgjwiadze1w&list=RDSgjwiadze1w&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ44z_ZqzXk&list=RDOQ44z_ZqzXk&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyBRbbHpno&list=RDpGyBRbbHpno&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
NO MOZARTNO CHOPINNO MAHLERALL ROMANTICS SCRAM!ALL CLASSICISTS EAT SHIT AND DIETHIS THREAD IS FOR MARIN MARAIS!SONATA FORM SHOULD DIEONLY CONCERTO GROSSO FOR I!HAYDN IS LIKE A ROTTEN WHEATWHAT I NEED IS A BACH CELLO SUITEBACH AND BEFORE, IVES AND AFTER
>Listening to Bach>not listening to Mozart>Listening to Marais>Not listening to Haydn>Listening to Ravel>not listening to Mahler>listening to Stravinsky>not listening to Schoenberg or ShostakovichIs there a better feeling in this world?
>average BABIAA listenerWe will disarm and subdue every 18th-19th century heretic that would put on a Mozart Piano concerto or Chopin NocturneWe are the Mockers of MozartWe put a chokehold on classicismWe are the Cuckolders of ChopinWe are the Rapists of RomanticsWe are the murderers of MahlerWe strike fear in ever pretentious and Neurotic writer of 1 hour symphonies
>>127591397>Reminder Bach and before, Ives and AfterWell said Friend, took the wisdom right out of my mouth
>If it ain't BAROQUE, don't fix it>I dumped her because she BAROQUED my heart>I had to go to the doctor because I BAROQUED my leg in a gondola accident>I would go to the concerto with you, but I'm BAROQUE>The Baroque BAROQUED the renaissance mold
>>127592808This is based take
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_l0soevaDEa6Krp_b98MfUMk7S2pDbby2Y&playnext=1&index=1surprisingly good, lots of color
>>127595425Despite what others here will say, Rattle's Mahler is great, and, perhaps more importantly, it's distinctive and unique. His micromanaging brings out details and, as you said, color you won't get with anyone else.
It absolutely grinds my gears when people play the descending left hand bit in the intro of Hungarian Rhapsody No. 2 really rapidly.
An Idiosyncratic and weird tonal composer like Gabriel Faure needs a performer who is very sensitive to his musicianship, Once you hear performances of his piano works by Albert Ferber, you'll soon realize he has been misinterpreted for the last 100 years from not necessarily bad performers, but who's artistry isn't on same level par the Monsieur. Once you realize this, you will see the parallels between Mozart and Faure. From first hearing you think surface level is as pretty as the Mediterranean water, but a deeper dive you will soon hear the riches unfold themselves, in the voicing, Harmony, and subtle syncopations in rhythm. The Preludes were always a hard listen for me like a Webern piece, but once Ferber shines his light on these pages, the mysteries are illuminated https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLtBNnqeNyo&list=PLC9P9b2PbuEq6i-04x1031Q5xbdW2FoVK&index=4https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2GUjPC6Xtw&list=PLC9P9b2PbuEq6i-04x1031Q5xbdW2FoVK&index=1https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIOF5-T44-M&list=PLC9P9b2PbuEq6i-04x1031Q5xbdW2FoVK&index=5https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6NHwiamFGc&list=PLC9P9b2PbuEq6i-04x1031Q5xbdW2FoVK&index=7
>>127595443i'm not really a fan of his earlier stuff, i've heard all of itbut since moving to the SBR his recordings have been of more interest to me. part of it is the spectacular engineering, the SBR has a really great recording setup. way better than anything Rattle ever got in Berlinperhaps the weirdest one is his Haydn Creationhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQX66pZQ-tM&list=OLAK5uy_m5TJ6_LOx1jjK9fpTBspRySJYvJaRbO2k&index=2like this is actually pretty good, and easily one of the best i've heard in the past 10 years. not as good as Hengelbrock's, but still.
>when they listen to Mozart and Haydn concertos and completely neglect the Sun Kings court>When they listen to vocal works by Verdi, Rossini or Puccini, but not Palestrina or the Franco-Flemish School>When they don't listen to Marin Marais more frequently than Beethoven or Brahms>No Perotin or Medieval Music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1E1EjqIrZD4he's a snake oil salesman, he isn't good at composing himself he just larps as being able to teach people
>Up next is mozFart stinky dinky symphony no. 39 in E flatulence followed by Braaaaaap Concerto in P(ee) minor
>>127595518He's probably Jewish
>Bach>Machaut>Ives>Marais>Buxtehude>Stravinsky>Reich>BartokNo Mozart, No Brahms, No Haydn, No MahlerNo Autistic Teutonic spirit shall oppress or taint the Gallic, Latin, and Slavic soul
>>127595479Fauré is directly of Chopinesque school, same as Scriabin, Debussy. Mozart is too far fetched for comparison no matter how you frame it. Think of Berceuse, op.62, and obviously 4th Ballade and 3rd sonata, he pretty much laid ground to all other great pianists. I'm curious if Ferber has a recording of Fauré's ballade? It's gotta be my favorite work of his. Sadly I can't seem to find it. Who else is good at Fauré?
>>127593512*tenor
>blatant spammer posting the same shit every threadWhy is this the most unmoderated general on this board>>127595192A little romantically biased, no? I would at the very least say Brandenburg 5 and BWV 1052 deserve a spot (even if Brandenburg 5 is technically a concerto grosso)
>>127591396No, they just did not have the musical language ingrained in them. If you grow up with classical music, you will be able to understand it more immediately. If you didn't, you might need to learn it. It's retarded to shame people like this
>>127595602>I would at the very least say Brandenburg 5 and BWV 1052I didn't include these because they're keyboard concertos, rather than piano concertos. I usually listen to harpsichord and organ versions of Bach concertos for some reason. I might start listening to piano renditions now.>>127595594Huh?
>>127595569My comparison was more how they have been approached as composers as a listener than the harmonic approach which owes more to Chopin, but I don't think Chopin ever gets the treatment that Mozart or Faure do for the listener which was the main point of my comparison. There is a weirdness to Faure and how he solves his harmonic language and cadences, there really is nothing like it, and with proper performances of his pieces, every listen I've done is more rewarding than the last.> I'm curious if Ferber has a recording of Fauré's ballade?He has a full recording of his works, but it's super expensive. I might check rutracker and Soulseek if there are uploads of the complete works.
>>127595624>I might start listening to piano renditions now.I recommend munchhttps://youtu.be/EEY9BrgBL4Q
>>127591396well something like sonata form isn't obvious if you've never learned about the genre like educated people in the classical period would've
>>127595709It's literally just verse-chorus but the bridge re-uses material from the previous sections
>>127595733
>>127595632>Chopin ever gets the treatment that Mozart or Faure do for the listener which was the main point of my comparison.I assume you mean Chopin's dramatic, Beethovenian bombast. But it depends on the piece. While Chopin is highly expressive, barely any interpreter gets it completely right, like the inner voices and polyrhythms of 4th ballade. Even in mazurkas counterpoint demands extra attention. Let alone nocturnes.>There is a weirdness to Faure and how he solves his harmonic language and cadencesYes, I was reading an analysis of Fauré's ballade just a couple of weeks ago, he has a very unique approach to resolving harmonies. Unlike Chopin's ballades, which still resemble sonata form and uses key relations for large climaxes and drama, he avoids tonic/dominant relationships entirely and modulates to remote keys for contrasting theme (chromatic mediant, from F# to D#), as for harmony, he uses dissonances in unique ways, almost like French impressionism. Suddenly chords are at odds with lyrical melody, but resolve back effortlessly, and not quite like the usual tension/release feel. So it feels etheral.>He has a full recording of his worksOh, good. lmk if you find it anywhere.>>127595654Thanks, I'll listen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Gouldctrl+f emotion0 results>Glenn Gould's approach to emotion in music was unique; while his recordings convey a "heartbreakingly beautiful" intensity and precision through restraint, he was also known for a detached and intellectual style, preferring the structured logic of composers like Bach over the violent emotions he found uncomfortable in Italian opera.
Guys am i going insane, Schoenberg is sounding genuinely good to me nowhttps://youtu.be/0jFtLY5pHLc?list=PLKq64tL0GeMEwrf6S070xSscleCD8jXlE
>>127595873You might need to check up with an audiologist.
>>127595873it's a good piece
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf9pG_ZR0kA
>>127595941He was a jew who had a white mans body
Is Dvorak's third string quartet worth hearing?
>>127596060Gould?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_of_the_affections>"Affections are not the same as emotions; however, they are a spiritual movement of the mind".[11]>not>emotionslmao
>>127591397Before and after and not including Bach(s)
>>127591525He face looks a little sooty
Good music is Beethoven's late quartets and after, Parsifal and before. Rest is pleb tier shit.
>>127596409>Romantic era>Not pleb
>>127596534Aye, the only patrician era.
>>127595489I'm crossing my fingers he records a new Mahler 3. Earlier this year I was doing the same thing for a new 7th and he ended up doing it! so I hope it works its magic once again
>>127596587Didn't he record it like 3 fucking times? LOL
>>127596060An unstoppable combination. If only he had the schlong and muscles of a black man he'd be set
>>127596629There is technically a BPO recording of the 7th but it's like a bootleg or something, so only the two including the new one this year. For the 3rd, he's only got the (solid) one he did with Birmingham back in the day, which is why I'm hoping he does a new one with the BRSO, as I think it could really be good and interesting.
>>127591322fuck womenhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ya11vy_s1-w
Hmm, I think my ears are finally getting tired of solo piano music and are ready to welcome the luscious sounds of orchestral music once again, thank god, it's about time.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHVH17SMSMw&list=OLAK5uy_l_Wjl97B6nM5pv3cESIt284XIH_BgAs_U&index=16
>>127596650>mutts law
>>127596286Based, emotional restraint is paramount to any brilliant masterpiece, Romantislop and classishit need not apply.
>>127595839>So it feels etheral.This is why is music feels so effortlessly serene and almost spiritual, even though he didn't have a Catholic conviction in his works. He's not a typical overly-emotional romantic which is why I'm drawn to his pieces.
Rameau is good
>>127597536That's strange, I find him to be very emotional. But not overtly expressive and bombastic, like Liszt or Beethoven. His expressiveness lies only in subtlety and harmonies. He's typically French sounding, I assume you also love Debussy, Franck?Also, were you able to find Ferber's set anywhere? There aren't many Fauré solo piano sets to choose from, or it's just me struggling to find them. Thyssens-Valentin, Nicolas Stavy are my go-tos.
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvogXnP5XUw
The young Bachhttps://music.youtube.com/watch?v=RqM-CBMOdsI
>>127598373https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=WM5sg9MBKw0https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=3c6Yknjxdnk
Bach’s second cantata https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=BnZKIq0YUMQ
>>127597965Unfortunately its not a complete set, just some nocturnes, Barcarolles, but a complete set of preludes in 2 volumes.>I assume you also love Debussy, Franck?Yep, but also Chabrier as well
>>127595873>Schoenberg is sounding genuinely good to me now.Good. Give in to dissonance and chromaticism. With each passing moment your appreciation of the motivic structure increases.
>>127598687I'd still listen to those 2 volumes if they were avilable anywhere as I'm short on Fauré sets, unfortunately it seems to be only on CD for now.>ChabrierNever listened, but I'm interested. Rec pieces if you can. Off to be now.
>>127595873That is one of the best string quartets ever composed so you're perfectly sane.
Early, post-romantic Schoenberg is fine. It's his serial pieces that are banana duct tape tier garbo.
>>127599205filtered.
>>127599259If you can't sing a tone row and its retrograde you're a poser.
>>127599304I whistle them on my mail run. Webern's are my favorite.
>>127599205it has been [0] days with no one being filtered by modern art
>""Property" is practically held to be more sacred than religion in our state-run society: for offence against the latter there is lenience, for damage to the former no forgiveness. Since property is deemed the foundation of our entire existence as a society, it seems all the more destructive that we do not all own property, and that the greatest part of society even comes disinherited into the world. Society is thus manifestly reduced by its own principle to such a state of dangerous discontent, that it is forced to estimate all its laws to the impossibly of settling this antagonism. Protection of property, in its widest universal legal sense — what armed force is selectively maintained for — can truly mean nothing else than a defence of the Haves [Besitzenden] against the Have-Nots [Nichtbesitzenden]. As many serious and keen calculating minds have applied themselves to the study of the problem before us, a solution to this — the final one perhaps being an equal distribution of all property — is something nobody has wished to bring to fruition [glücken wollen]; and it seems as if, through state exploitation of an apparently so simple a concept as property, a stake had been driven into the body of mankind that makes it waste away from the misery of a painful illness.
>"Clever though be the many thoughts expressed by mouth or pen about the invention of money and its enormous value as a civiliser, against such praises should be set the curse to which it has always been doomed in song and legend. If gold here figures as the demon strangling manhood's innocence, our greatest poet shews at last the goblin's game of paper money. The Nibelung's fateful ring become a pocket-book, might well complete the eerie picture of the spectral world-controller. By the advocates of our Progressive Civilisation this rulership is indeed regarded as a spiritual, nay, a moral power; for vanished Faith is now replaced by "Credit," that fiction of our mutual honesty kept upright by the most elaborate safeguards against loss and trickery. What comes to pass beneath the benedictions of this Credit we now are witnessing, and seem inclined to lay all blame upon the Jews."
for me it's Martinu's piano concertos
>>127591322At risk of sounding sophomoric I'm tired of tonality, but the post-tonal canon is hopelessly autistic and contrarianI will be grateful to anyone who can recommend consonant post-tonal pianists like >Sorabji>>127599259serialism is wordcel horseshit. the history of serialism induces the same vertigo as browsing the deviantart gallery of a retard who's drawn the same cartoon of a cat every day for fifteen years. That it wasn't ridiculed into oblivion dumps a fucking belt into the entire canon's intellectual credibility. I would tell serialists to eat my ass except they'd probably obey. I also like Webern
>>127599593>serialism is wordcel horseshit. the history of serialism induces the same vertigo as browsing the deviantart gallery of a retard who's drawn the same cartoon of a cat every day for fifteen years.lines like this is why I still come to this website
>>127599593what the fuck is a wordcel
>>127599570Didn't know they existed, good shout
get comfy and listen to Pletnev's unique Tchaikovsky symphony cyclehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYo5JDlpMiE&list=OLAK5uy_mOGJWDf7yTLnM2vAW8jEXSu6yu6xTdcow&index=1
Post some late renaissance/early baroque opera kinos. Currently listening to caccini's euridice
>>127595560Gigabased
>>127591322I hate contrarians so much. /classical/ needs a "start with the Germans" version of pic related.
>>127600446I assume you have already heard l'Orfeo, but I want to recommend pic related which is my favorite recording (save for the stupid gimmick of having people come in during the overture, what the hell were they thinking)
>>127600894what it needs is to ban posts by anyone with a background on pop or movie/anime/game soundtrack listening.
>>127601045fuck here's the image
>>127601058that would also help.
>>127601070I'll check this recording, thanks. Theres a bilingual libretto in the monteverdi site which helps
>>127600894>start with the GermansPlease God no, a sane person with good taste can only handle so much Telemann, Handel, Haydn, Mozart and Brahms. Start with the French is much more apt since the Notre Dame school and Franco-Flemish school created this style of music.
start with the early baroque and end with the late baroque. the only correct way
Young thug Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tv1oLd03_PE
>>127601244>the Notre Dame school and Franco-Flemishthe common practice style defined by the principles 4-part tonal harmony and developing variation technique is the conventional starting point for anyone getting into classical music. go and be a contrarian somewhere else.
*of*
>>127601162I always feel that Italian opera librettos are usually translated in way too formal a fashionfor instance someone in an opera will say/sing something that translates to "I am not going to do that" and the online translation will have it as "I shalln't ever do so" or something. it frequently ruins comical scenes in funnier operas.
Start with Russian romantics and end with German romantics, don't bother with the rest.
ai prompt: create me a Bruckner Violin Concerto composition + recording, conducted by Herbert Von Karajan, performed by the Berlin Philharmonic and Anne-Sophie Mutter; also create an album cover with it on the DG label
>>127602123I will crack your skull open with an organ pipe.
>>127602187lol'd
Vivaldi is all you need. Discard the rest.
now playingstart of Prokofiev: Piano Sonata No. 4 in C Minor, Op. 29https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnVYmlhp1ew&list=OLAK5uy_n2S6SN-KtZFSUpylZl9i6k4Pt7ki_wAm8&index=2start of Prokofiev: Piano Sonata No. 7 in B-Flat Major, Op. 83https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8slPf4tq0VU&list=OLAK5uy_n2S6SN-KtZFSUpylZl9i6k4Pt7ki_wAm8&index=5start of Prokofiev: Piano Sonata No. 9 in C Major, Op. 103https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t39ZygRiLkg&list=OLAK5uy_n2S6SN-KtZFSUpylZl9i6k4Pt7ki_wAm8&index=7https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_n2S6SN-KtZFSUpylZl9i6k4Pt7ki_wAm8
Non-hip Bach violin concertos (all 3 and double)? I only come across hip versions that are highly regarded. What are the essential non-hip recordings
>>127603175Grumiaux
Decided to listen to Schoenberg's first string quartet, color me impressed. This is an amazingly impressive piece on every level. Was there any tonal composer in particular who he was especially inspired by with this piece, or is it truly the wild amalgamation of romantic sound it seems to be?
>>127604045If Schoenberg stuck to tonality, he'd be one of the most praised composers of the 20th century. I honestly commend his autism of sticking with 12 tone music even when the vast majority of people hate it
12 tone music is inherently flawed and goes against the nature of music
>>127604045try Reger's quartets.
>>127604326why are you retarded?
>>127604374Am I? Or are you retarded for falling for jewish tricks like dodecaphony?
>>1276044431. Hauer invented 12-tone music.2. Schoenberg's music stems from Wagner, Brahms, and Reger. were they Jewish?
>>127604481>1. Hauer invented 12-tone musicNon sequitur. Schoenberg developed it independently and popularised it. No one gives a shit about Hauer.>Schoenberg's music stems fromHis own mind.
>>127604489many composers were heading towards 12-tone serialism independent of each other. dodecaphony is really just an extreme form of romantic harmony. >>127604489Schoenberg's development as a composer was in the Viennese and Saxon traditions which are European the last time I checked.
>>127604519>extreme form of romantic harmony.So is romantic harmony an extreme form of classical harmony? What are you even talking about. Stop parroting nonsense you read on the internet and start thinking for yourself for once. There is no reason to lump dodecaphony with romanticism, no matter what Schoenberg babbled about. It's a different thing entirely and rightfully belongs to modernism.
>>127604545how large is a puddle?
>>127604553This all stems from the fact that Schoenberg disliked the term "modernism", the same way Debussy disliked "impressionism". But you know, no one asked them what they think.
>>127604045>Was there any tonal composer in particular who he was especially inspired by with this pieceaccording to himself, mostly Mozart
>>127604638Sounds nothing like Mozart except first few bars of dissonance quartet and even that's stretching it. It's Wagnerian, but even more chromatic.
>>127604706maybe it doesn't evoke Mozart harmonically but it sure does in form and structure
Most of Schoenberg's music isn't even 12 tone serialism. It's a little under half. He was majority a tonal/atonal composer, and even after he went full 12 tone he still did a few tonal pieces here-and-there.
im literally schoenberg
>>127605271>isn't even 12 tone serialism. It's a little under half.5 tone serialism?
I hate Schoenberg but he was good ngl
Just got back from playing craps at the lodge slamming the jukebox, I’m hanging up my olive drab jacket next to my parlor sculpture and collection of Weird Tales and lounging back on my mail order overstuffed chair with baham pillow to watch The Outlaw Josey Wales with some coleslaw and beer
>>127595873Tried this a couple of times, my attention span runs out after 2nd movement, the dissonance doesn't help. I do like 1st movement but can't imagine sitting through 40 minutes of this stuff, and I tried following along with the score too, but it's mentally exhausting.
>Mirages op. 113Germanbros, why didn't you tell me French music can be this beatiful?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXw9iO5ifHQ
>>127607452>Chant>ignorée
>>127607481Your lost traitor
now playingstart of Beethoven: Symphony No. 3 in E-Flat Major, Op. 55, "Eroica"www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPiQm1T0Ihg&list=OLAK5uy_nLjPdgmweidLnCxOfgZnYsP-kCVIBXRCw&index=1start of Beethoven: Symphony No. 8 in F Major, Op. 93https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0B7eyeheo8&list=OLAK5uy_nLjPdgmweidLnCxOfgZnYsP-kCVIBXRCw&index=5https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nLjPdgmweidLnCxOfgZnYsP-kCVIBXRCw
David Goza > Dave HurwitzI nomiate him as the greatest classical youtuber
I feel like there really ought to have been another Shostakovich-tier modernist symphonist, both in quality and quantity, and it deeply bums me out that there isn't, like there's a void, something or someone is missing. No, Prokofiev's symphonies does not cut it. American modernists like Roy Harris and William Schuman are good but weren't playing on the same level as Shostakovich's symphonies.
now playingstart of Brahms: Piano Quartet No. 1 in G Minor, Op. 25https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Pmb322WJOA&list=OLAK5uy_lG9BC4FT2sdiLdH3ib74Aer6X7_1xCu0o&index=2start of Brahms: Piano Quartet No. 3 in C Minor, Op. 60https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSrzDsVFhNM&list=OLAK5uy_lG9BC4FT2sdiLdH3ib74Aer6X7_1xCu0o&index=6start of Brahms: Piano Quartet No. 2 in A Major, Op. 26https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UX2gfJQKE4&list=OLAK5uy_lG9BC4FT2sdiLdH3ib74Aer6X7_1xCu0o&index=10start of Brahms: Intermezzos, Op. 117https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1lzKYWE8cI&list=OLAK5uy_lG9BC4FT2sdiLdH3ib74Aer6X7_1xCu0o&index=13https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lG9BC4FT2sdiLdH3ib74Aer6X7_1xCu0oread the blurb for this recording and there's this interesting tidbit,>The following year saw the premiere of the A major quartet, Brahms himself at the piano in offering to the world a work which would be hugely popular during his lifetime before falling inexplicably to the periphery of the repertoire in recent times. It was over a decade later, in 1873/4, that Brahms returned to his aborted C minor quartet: "Imagine a man who is just going to shoot himself, for there is nothing else to do", wrote composer to publisher of this profoundly moving score. huh...
Frédéric Bumpin
thoughts on Tchaikovsky's Orchestral Suites?https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa1rC97wRkZi-Is-PyvkrRJetXBGXi7P7&si=XM3iq63CY1rDm5jB
Bach’s third cantata https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=ymqlt55iE44https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=4gQI5SXk1nchttps://music.youtube.com/watch?v=mMtM5d0hXPoAlso, why do all male choirs sound more harmonious?
>>127611284Leftists have no appreciation of harmony.
>>127611284cause ur gay
>>127611429You have a neurosis
>>127611438You have a poopy dick and cummy asshole
>>127611447>Regresses to a child like state when confronted
>>127611471>t. homo mchomoface
>>127611471>>Regresses to a child like state when confronted
>>127611502>>127611506You need a shaman
>>127611552>t. crystal collecting woman
>>127611574https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0U_FBHKYqRk
>>127611592>quoting Chigurh in 2025That reddit picture wasn't meant to be accurate,
>Hugo Wolf was a student at the time of the 1882 Festival, yet still managed to find money for tickets to see Parsifal twice. He emerged overwhelmed: "Colossal – Wagner's most inspired, sublimest creation." He reiterated this view in a postcard from Bayreuth in 1883: "Parsifal is without doubt by far the most beautiful and sublime work in the whole field of Art.">Gustav Mahler was also present in 1883 and he wrote to a friend; "I can hardly describe my present state to you. When I came out of the Festspielhaus, completely spellbound, I understood that the greatest and most painful revelation had just been made to me, and that I would carry it unspoiled for the rest of my life.">Max Reger simply noted that "When I first heard Parsifal at Bayreuth I was fifteen. I cried for two weeks and then became a musician.">Alban Berg described Parsifal in 1909 as "magnificent, overwhelming,">and Jean Sibelius, visiting the Festival in 1894 said "Nothing in the world has made so overwhelming an impression on me. All my innermost heart-strings throbbed... I cannot begin to tell you how Parsifal has transported me. Everything I do seems so cold and feeble by its side.That is really something.">Claude Debussy thought the characters and plot ludicrous, but nevertheless in 1903 wrote that musically it was "Incomparable and bewildering, splendid and strong. Parsifal is one of the loveliest monuments of sound ever raised to the serene glory of music.">He was later to write to Ernest Chausson that he had deleted a scene he had just written for his own opera Pelléas et Melisande because he had discovered in the music for it 'the ghost of old Klingsor, alias R. Wagner'.He was simply the greatest. Wagner for all eternity.
>>127611666A beautiful Dawn and a glorious Sunset, Wagner is the greatest
>>127611640You are the one displaying the ethos of a redditor. You can add hypocrisy to your list of sins.
>>127611666>When I first heard Parsifal at Bayreuth I was fifteen. I cried for two weeksRofl what a fag
>>127611666trying to change the subject>666
>>127611732crying to music is manly
>>127611284Because the male and female voice are too incongruous to be easily made complementary.
>>127611552The tribe would have killed him before he got to this point.
It is amazing to think that Bach composed this piece around the age of 21 after his journey to Lübeck.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfxdzXlOQmk
>>127611756You aren’t a real man unless you have undergone a male initiation ritual.
Berlioz's Requiem has got to be the most fucking boring Requiem ever written
>>127612253Has it occurred to you that your musical taste is subjective; furthermore, that by spending all day ranking music, you are engaging in an intellectually meaningless activity?
>>127611697You talk like a redditor
>>127611143Nice sounding, pleasurable music. Shame there aren't more recordings of it.
>>127612253I fuckin' love it.
127613236>reddit, reddit, reddit>BABIA, BABIA, BABIAGet thee to a mental institution.
two things: 1) this might be one of the worst album covers I've ever seen, and 2) one reviewer whom I really respect wrote,>Two roads diverge in the woods leading to Beethoven's quartets: pre-Emerson and post-Emerson. Pre-Emerson every ensemble expressed the Romantic performance tradition in which Beethoven was a profound, existential composer whose expression afforded limitless exploration - music of the soul, in a word. This mode of interpretation reached its height in the Busch and Budapest Qt. Post-Emerson, a modernist revision set in, stripped of Romantic "depth," with a new focus on speed, precision, and objectivity. I'm giving a simple schematic picture, but there's no doubt that the Emersons' complete Beethoven cycle on DG was a watershed.I absolutely see what they're talking about, but is the Emerson cycle actually the catalyst? That seems quite the attribution.adagio from the 12th to enjoyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HITbKklyv9M&list=OLAK5uy_mfkL9q86TyeskCYbjpkSG9HYn5RbM2fz8&index=7
>>127613695nah not really, there were objectivist cycles before. Juilliard's, for example
>>127612694They have nothing better to do.
>>127612694>>127613784>gets mad when people try to discuss classical in /classical/sad
>>127613762I suppose no reviewer or essayist ever resisted a good, broad strokes narrative.
>>127613834it can be somewhat annoying when you have an autistic knowledge of the discography but i've learned to just ignore it unless it's extremely stupid
Classical performers must absolutely refrain from deviating from the scores, even in the slightest, as any such transgression is an affront to the very essence of the composer's artistry. The score is not merely a suggestion; it is a sacred document, painstakingly crafted by a genius who poured their soul into every note, dynamic, and articulation. To take liberties with the music is to engage in a form of musical vandalism, reducing the profound intricacies of the composition to mere whims of personal interpretation. Such egregious behavior not only disrespects the composer’s intentions but also insults the intelligence of the audience, who deserve to experience the work as it was meant to be heard. In the realm of classical music, fidelity to the score is not just a guideline; it is an absolute imperative, and any deviation is a betrayal of the art form itself.
>>127613890ok how should i perform this music by Bach which has no tempo indication https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdLeR9u8sqg
>>127611666Tristan will always remain Wagner's greatest creation. Music that flows from the pen will always be the most authentic creations of composers. It's why the Rite of Spring is Stravinsky's best piece, and his artificially designed and constructed later music is so bad.
>>127613793What discussion? You ramble on like a lunatic, we are supposed to listen…
>>127613890kek
>>127613890I just refrain from ever looking at the score and go with whatever performance and interpretative approach sounds best to me :D
>>127613920If there is no tempo indication, then one should not even consider performing the work; it is inherently incomplete. To present an unfinished piece is to disregard the composer's intentions, as they clearly did not intend for it to be heard in such a state. The scores, lacking this crucial element, should have been discarded out of respect for the composer, who deserves the dignity of having their complete vision realized rather than subjected to the whims of unqualified interpretation. Performing such a work is not only misguided but also a disservice to the artistry that the composer painstakingly crafted.
>>127613978holy based
>>127613950When >>127612253 posts, they're not only expressing their opinion on one of the most important and popular choral works, but they're also opening the door to discussion about Requiems in general, which might really be the worst, and where Berlioz's Requiem might actually rank.
now playingstart of Beethoven: String Quartet No. 10 in E-Flat Major, Op. 74 "Harp"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysYBOPZM5es&list=OLAK5uy_mgKK2-gPFg6yc6rFHtm37s6HyaUtSfE3Y&index=38start of Beethoven: String Quartet No. 11 in F Minor, Op. 95 "Serioso"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrsQ-Zsf8dU&list=OLAK5uy_mgKK2-gPFg6yc6rFHtm37s6HyaUtSfE3Y&index=42start of Beethoven: String Quartet No. 12 in E-Flat Major, Op. 127https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4o_jTosnec&list=OLAK5uy_mgKK2-gPFg6yc6rFHtm37s6HyaUtSfE3Y&index=45https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mgKK2-gPFg6yc6rFHtm37s6HyaUtSfE3Y
>>127614001Why is ranking music so important to you?
>>127614090NTA but it's fun and an easy way to generate some discussion.
>>127613890>>127613978The score is merely the marble by which the performer(s) sculps the art of the music performance with -- they are the true genius.
>>127613856>it can be somewhat annoying when you have an autistic knowledge of the discographyMaybe you should start writing reviews and articles on recordings.
>>127614118It’s boring; you simply have nothing better to do.
>>127614090They are unable to come to a judgement without their “consensus filter”.
>>127614265Nah, It’s a way to convert other listeners to their tastes. Ranking is a form of grooming.
>>127614265>>127614231>>127614299It's just more fun and conducive to conversation and discussion if one says, "Berlioz's Requiem is the best Requiem ever" versus "What do you guys think about Berlioz's Requiem?" relax
Why does German music besides Wagner, some Beethoven and Bach lack any sense of passion and sensuous feeling to it? Every time I listen to music like Brahms, Bruckner, Mahler Schumann, or Haydn I get the ick. The Surprise symphony, Schumann's simp songs or Brahms incel chamber music, they all sound like they've been written by men who never touched a woman or had them desire them. Compare this to Bach, Marais, Franck, or Faure, all of whose music has an understated sexual feeling to it, a restraint of it, or a memory of an encounter. I don't get this with the Germans at all, it seems like the lack of sexual encounters have made their music so irresolute, isolating, and will ostracize anyone who likes to have sex. The French and Italians don't have this issue for obvious reasons.Why do G*rmans make such icky music /classical/?
>>127614231your complaining is boring
>>127600481I know friend, have De Rore and Maraishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJU6lsQzXGwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzw8gtqsvDM
Jan Vogler's Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiMPSJvBK3s&list=OLAK5uy_nGJZ6e_U72J0FgPUaKktXPUJByenwF_2Q&index=32
barenboim has the best wtc, idcwww.youtube.com/watch?v=NypnWn2Kml4
>>127614790>having sexual thoughts about this guyreally nigga
>>127615040he had 20 children nigga
>>127614373Discussion about what? Ranking music? You can’t comprehend that such discussions are inherently meaningless intellectual endeavors. If you stripped the discussion down to its bare bones, removing all of the flowery language and pseudo-intellectual bullshit, you would have a statement of the form “The musical piece X, yay!” “The musical piece Y, boo!”; so all you are telling us is that you like something, or you don’t. It’s not a deep
>>127614805You are no hypocrite? KOEK
>>127615580deep idea*
>>127615580>you would have a statement of the form “The musical piece X, yay!” “The musical piece Y, boo!”; soI'm tempted to make an emotivism joke here but I'll abstain.Anyway, yes, you're right, the ranking system is a way of doing so in an interesting manner.
>>127615580>>127615614where is your deep discussion about music? you're so fucking full of yourself it's unbelievable
>>127615697Music is not something that requires deep discussion.
>tfw no mass in b minor gfhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsD6yHa_-hk&list=OLAK5uy_kjSqdKqGqcXUXLtyn8n7SbrwCC0TyLYiQ&index=17
>>127615644Oh, is that the ‘ism? You get a gold star. So you studied Philosophy? That makes sense. Most Philosophers love to make things more complicated than necessary.
>>127615778so what is your point you're just shitting up the thread with negativity
>>127615813you're being an utterly worthless pretentious asswipe, even an AI could write more interesting posts than you
ranking things POWER RANKINGS1. ranking things...[POWER GAP]9001. not ranking things
>>127615854I am the negative one? I think you suffer from memory issues…
>>127615882Caprice
>>127615904you're deranged
time for aNEW>>127615937>>127615937NEW
https://desuarchive.org/mu/thread/127591322/#127615965i wonder if the filthy animal deleted it himself or mods=godsdespicable spastic
