Rubbing it out to Rubbra editionhttps://youtu.be/TlWBbE_idM4This thread is for the discussion of music in the Western (European) classical tradition, as well as classical instrument-playing.>How do I get into classical?This link has resources including audio courses, textbooks and selections of recordings to help you start to understand and appreciate classical music:https://rentry.org/classicalgenPrevious: >>128290062
Liszt, Chopin and Debussy are the kings of keyboard music with no single rival in sight. Differing opinions begin to surface when we drift from pure rigid objectivity to subjective cacophony.
>>128324558thank you neurasthenic romantislopper
So it has come to this. Truly it is dismal that /classical/ clings even today to nonentities. Haydn and Mozart? Pop for noblemen. Beethoven? Kitsch for Jacobins. Schubert? The wojak composer who today would court his audience on /r9k/. Wagner? He is the MCU of the 19th century. Brahms? You may as well put on a Disney OST and host a hootenanny at your trailer park for all it will edify you. With his satirical La Valse, Ravel humiliated the whole soi-disant "classical tradition" formed since the upstarts of the eighteenth century took the luminous glory of the baroque and made it into a festival of FARTS (see the second movement of Haydn 93 if you dare defile your ear... your good taste may not recover).Simplicity, vulgarity, poopy parpy bassoon sounds, dippy whistling fagflutes, and swoony superficial strings so dizzied the lethargic libidos of both the degenerated aristocrats and the rising tide of dull-minded common stock that a century was not sufficient to exhaust their ignorant hunger for this tripe. And yet, even today, when no barrier prevents the worthy pilgrim from seeing what dwarves are those composers, compared to their baroque predecessors and to the modernists who finally put a plug in those tooty little poots, still /classical/ concedes to the nonentities.The unique characteristic of this writer's soul that he never recognized the validity of the music designated as Classical and Romantic even as a child. Puzzlement and concern were his response to the claims of journalists that this was the acme of art music. Yet when I held in my ear the rich and lofty counterpoint of Bach or soaked in the profound and advanced sonorities of Ravel, Debussy, and Scriabin, my heart was set to rest at the cost of a mind put to flame by the injustice of the situation. Were it not for this injustice, I would take no notice of those composers who are beneath the dignity of consideration for any truly musical person.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDk2RUaoEJQ
I am in a world, where I am taking a stroll in a beautiful park built by the divine, suddenly my legs feel tired and request to stop. Cordially I went on ahead to sit under the shade of a chestnut tree. My fatigue washes away from me as I slip into my imaginative daydreaming, I can hear the melancholic chirping of the sparrows and the water flowing from the creeks, feel the gust of a chilly wind approaching my face, smell the rejuvenating fragrance of the good earth. But then I realize I was just listening to the start of Lohengrin. I a poor soul, venerate the gods for creating such beauty and allowing an inferior soul like me to experience it!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BG53S27HI5k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ9A5tn-9RE&list=RDGJ9A5tn-9RE&start_radio=1
I don't see what's so good about Latehoven's String Quartets they're pretty dissappointing compared to the 9th Symphony
>>128324755You don't actually hold that opinion nor do you want to discuss it, you just wanted to feel clever about your portmanteau.
>>128324570try >>>/t/rash/
>>128324780I've said my piece Chrissy
Scarlatti mogs
>>128324508>>128324558>>128324590>>128324605>>128324888all of you dweebs pretending like bach, mozart, and beethoven don't completely blow all your niche little composers out of the water. You want to feel special and love your own niche composer but you're just being gay.
>>128324963>bach, mozart, and beethoven don't completely blow all your niche little composers out of the water.Except they don't, tourist sister. The niche composers are usually better in their specialty than any other composer.
>you're gay if you like what you likeokay, if you say so.
A Haydn string quartet a day keeps the neuroticism away.
>>128325126thank you lowbrow sister
>>128325005Cream rises to the top, retard.
>>128325168>>128325005Ah welcome back sistersister. Brucknerhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l378hN19B0
>>128325208Except with Glen Gould and Karajan
>>128325208>ad populumYeah, saccharine, accesible diabetic overload is on the top of the cake, and the main dish remains in the stomach, still to be digested, or puked out - reality is too much to cope with for some people.>>128325244No, except with every single concept imaginable. Or you conceed that Fur elise is the best Beethoven piece, or Beethoven was better symphonist than Mahler - both of which are objectively false.
Calos Seixashttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVWXZVGGau0https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czLITheCV-o
Haydnsisters...
>>128325314You can tell Haydn sucks by how much Hurwitz sucks him off. Classical era was a diaper disaster and only served as a prelude to the humble masters of the romantic era.
>>128325303>Beethoven was better symphonist than MahlerBut he was?
>>128325374Only on the opposite day.
>>128325398What Mahler symphony is better than the 9th? None of them
>>128325374Yes, he indeed was.
>>1283254083, 4, 6, 8, 9, 10
>>128325421LOL
>>128324755I hope they someday click for you
let's keep getting Veghhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dc5-rpQGGiw&list=OLAK5uy_ngmtjfY1ly18bn15uAAdxXNqkce-bl_MQ&index=21this set is so good I've been listening to it straight through since I started it and I'm on the 6th now. I haven't done that in a long time
>>128325408>>128325437>betterFirst, you have to understand the meaning of the word "better". Beethoven could never do things Mahler did, due to variety of reasons. Mahler's orchestration is perfection, his wind and brass handling are more creative. Compare it to Beethoven's, which is stale. Mahler has superior form, he can do all sorts of things with it, double exposition, modified sonata form etc. Mahler's, and especially Bruckner's harmonies are vastly superior, more expressive than Beethoven's. Beethoven's harmony only shined in the late quartets, not his symphonies.2, 5, 7 are also better than Beethoven's 9th, obviously.
Beethoven was a great composer because he was competent in variety of genres, not because he was best at any of it, which he obvioisly wasn't. Schubert, Brahms are better in chamber department, Chopin, Debussy are better in piano department, Mahler, Bruckner are better in symphonic department, Fauré, Scriabin are better in harmony department so on. Evident by the very scores they composed, takes a glance, and a bit of intelligence to figure out.
>>128324963Everyone already knows Bach, Mozart and Beethoven are the greatest, nobody's disputing that. But parroting that forever just shows you've never moved past the musical equivalent of saying "water is wet." Developing a unique taste and "niche" interests means recognizing the obvious peaks and then exploring beyond them, finding what others overlook. It means you actually have an inquisitive mind and a fucking personality. Worshipping the Big Three while dismissing everything else is peak herd mentality, retarded and boring. You're just mistaking consensus for judgment. You're a boring, uninteresting person. Scarlatti does things none of them do: his rhythmic invention, harmonic oddities, and compact intensity are completely unique. Cope.
>>128324963>>128325545Also, calling Scarlatti, Liszt, Wagner and Ravel "niche" is genuinely the funniest shit I've read all week. They're literally performed every single day in every major concert hall and conservatory on the planet. You think of yourself as some enlightened defender of the canon, but you're just an uncultured moron who's never gone past whatever YouTube autoplay fed you, KEK.
>>128325539one of the dumbest posts I've ever read in this thread
>>128325602You aren't bright or musically literate so no one's surprised.
>>128325482>>128325539>>128325545actually all 3 of these posts are really fucking stupid
>>128325624thank you lowbrow sister
>>128325482>>128325539>>128325545Wow, such illuminating analysis! Stale brass handling indeed. And double exposition? Beethoven never heard of it! Bruckner's harmonies actually ARE more expressive than Beethoven's. Will I explain what I mean by that arbitrary remark? Of course not. I just spent half an hour on reddit learning music terms and I thought I'd try them out on /classical/, hope I didn't embarrass myself!
Music analysis is about having fun and being yourself :)
Can you play this on the piano?
Some biographers have asserted that Wagner in his final years came to believe in the Aryanist philosophy of Arthur de Gobineau. However the influence of Gobineau on Wagner's thought is debated. Wagner was first introduced to Gobineau in person in Rome in November 1876. The two did not cross paths again until 1880, well after Wagner had completed the libretto for Parsifal, the opera most often accused of containing racist ideology. Although Gobineau's An Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races was written 25 years earlier, it seems that Wagner did not read it until October 1880. There is evidence to suggest that Wagner was very interested in Gobineau's idea that Western society was doomed because of miscegenation between "superior" and "inferior" races. However, he does not seem to have subscribed to any belief in the superiority of the supposed Germanic or "Nordic race".Wagner's conversations with Gobineau during the philosopher's 5-week stay at Wahnfried in 1881 were punctuated with frequent arguments. Cosima Wagner's diary entry for June 3 recounts one exchange in which Wagner "positively exploded in favour of Christianity as compared to racial theory." Gobineau also believed that in order to have musical ability, one must have black ancestry.Wagner subsequently wrote three essays in response to Gobineau's ideas: Introduction to a Work of Count Gobineau, Know Thyself, and Heroism and Christianity (all 1881). The Introduction is a short piece written for the Bayreuther Blätter in which Wagner praises the Count's book:>We asked Count Gobineau, returned from weary, knowledge-laden wanderings among far distant lands and peoples, what he thought of the present aspect of the world; to-day we give his answer to our readers. He, too, had peered into an Inner: he proved the blood in modern manhood's veins, and found it tainted past all healing.
In "Know Thyself" Wagner deals with the German people, who Gobineau believes are the "superior" Aryan race. Wagner, in fact, rejects the notion that the Germans are a race at all and further proposes that we should look past the notion of race to focus on the human qualities ("das Reinmenschliche") common to all of us. In "Heroism and Christianity", Wagner proposes that Christianity could function to provide a moral harmonization of all races, preferable to the physical unification of races by miscegenation:>Incomparably fewer in individual numbers than the lower races, the ruin of the white races may be referred to their having been obliged to mix with them; whereby, as remarked already, they suffered more from the loss of their purity than the others could gain by the ennobling of their blood [...] To us Equality is only thinkable as based upon a universal moral concord, such as we can but deem true Christianity elect to bring about.
>>128325960>>128325986Bruckner would be proud.
Perhaps it's time to tune to A = 392 hz
>>128325804I can do that but I don't wanna.
>>128326114Wanna do this instead?
Scriabinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=japRLtnlQm4&list=OLAK5uy_koacRCpor9KVUnecvqXhO4jrrJ04w15Aw&index=61
Luigi Cherubini - Quadruple Fugue on "Et vitam venturi"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCn-5Y8u4jY&list=RDwCn-5Y8u4jY&start_radio=1
a girl told me today that she enjoyed the way i enunciate my words. it was as if they were rolling up and down in a "melodious" manner, she remarked. though she initiailly confused accent for enunciation, it was quickly clarified. ive never been told that in my life. what compositions exist within mozart's catalogue that express the joy of being seen?
>>128326944https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UP6nXW7LBvM&list=OLAK5uy_mk1karZqJ9xqSIkAzvJUMU7uQsGv0u1Wo&index=3
People don't appreciate how hard it is being a conductor. Waving a stick around for an hour? That's tiring work-you need real stamina to do that.
>>128327037Perfect music if he's a dainty Austrian princess who's just been asked to dance by the rather dashing prince of Oldenburg
>>128327166he sounds like one
>>128327231yeah, but instead of a prince asking me to dance, it's always older married women at parks who come with their dogs, books or journals. im attracted in particular towards older women who take good care of their bodies. they're honest, principled, and grounded, usually, within an ethical framework.
>>128326944This isn't the "Write Your Thoughts" thread on >>>/lit/
>>128324508I want to jerk off to Baroque music. Any recs?
Mahler's 6th is an evil piece of music that shouldn't exist.
>>128324508victor hely-hutchinsonhttps://youtu.be/R640RLJbcUQsir arnold baxhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGmCtXtc93smalcolm arnoldhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21ci-mSDAtYwilliam waltonhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv0Dm-Af27khavergal brianhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUs591mw4WY
opening of a review,>One thought that's crossed my mind over the years is that if almost all classical music disappeared, and all we were left with was Chopin, that would still be such a rich treasure.true?
>>128328716LMAO
>>128325303>Beethoven was better symphonist than Mahler - both of which are objectively false.Mahlershitters think technical advancements in music instantly makes something artistically superior. I suppose any shitty sketch artist being able to attain photorealism today is automatically a superior painter to Botticelli, because Botticelli couldn't create photorealism. It's the same moronic logic. They have so little appreciation for or understanding of true inspiration. There is not a single melody in Mahler's symphonies that can be compared with even the simplest motifs of Beethoven's symphonies. Mahler just rips off the melodic styles of others or pours syrupy vulgarity into a bland and endlessly long mould of his own creation. As for his form? Well he destabilises and destroys everything to be admired about symphonic form. As Adorno correctly recognises, the typical unity of symphonic form is replaced with narrative form, where nothing is predictable. Gigantic misshapen monsters, they don't deserve the name of 'symphony'. And what new ideas does he aim to express? The hyper-specific psychological record of a neurotics fear of grotesque irony, expressed with klezmer music. Music for overly emotional teenagers. Beethoven certainly never entered into such pathetically personal spheres in his symphonies. Because everything in Beethoven's symphonies is immortal and epical, establishing standards of expression that seem to be archetypal, as if they always existed independently of the man Beethoven, and that is the result of perfect artistry. But Mahler is and will forever only be expressing his sad, little, insecure, sentimental, self-deceiving and neurotic mind, because his artistry was second rate. The large-scale form of Beethoven is intelligent and holistic, but Mahler's large-scale form in effect breaks down through the unmitigated intensity and unpredictability of the detail. He applied Wagnerian endless melody to symphonic form and the result is horrible.
>Let me read you this from the Dresden Anzeiger of Februrary the 14th, 1883:>"A heavy and altogether unexpected bereavement has befallen musicians of every race, country, and degree. We learn by telegraph from Venice that the greatest of contemporary composers, Richard Wagner, the second husband of Cosima Liszt, died there at four o'clock of yesterday afternoon. He occupied a loftier station than king or kaiser, pope or president. No monarch was ever more enthusiastically served than has been Richard Wagner. Infalliability, embodied in a Roman pontiff, has never been more implicitly believed in by the most orthodox Catholic than it has been in the person of the Bayreuth Prophet!">Put well, do you not think? Put well....
>>128328757This is pretty well-written so I'll give you props. That said, your entire complaint boils down to "romanticism and modernism BAD"go to bed grandpa
>>128328778No, no, I don't dislike Romanticism and Modernism, my critique doesn't apply to Wagner, Bruckner, Brahms, Dvorak, Strauss, Sibelius, etc. The novel or narrative approach to symphonic structure is unique to Mahler. I don't actually hate Mahler but I do think in every sense, in both form and emotional notions and everything that cannot be easily put into words in a 4chan post, that Mahler is inferior to Beethoven. My main point is that late Romanticism and Modernism being technically more advanced than Beethoven does not necessarily make the composers of these periods artistically superior to him.
Honest thoughts?
>>128329249not sure what this has to do with /classical/, maybe try posting on >>>/v/?
>>128328716certified bruh moment
>>128324558>Chopinhe's boring
>>128328757>Mahlershitters think technical advancements in music instantly makes something artistically superior.Strawman.>They have so little appreciation for or understanding of true inspiration.Red herring/nonsense. If you'd like to shit out poetry consider >>>/lit/>There is not a single melody in Mahler's symphoniesBeethoven was a terrible, awful melodist, so bringing this up is a very bad idea.>Mahler just rips off the melodic styles of others "Others" as in folk music? I'm compltely fine with that! At least he achieves great melodic beauty from time to time. Beethoven never does. Not that it's bad, of course it's not. But it's a fact.>Well he destabilises and destroys everything to be admired about symphonic form. You don't understand Mahler. Period.>[Quote by someone else]Opinion discarded. Tone down your appeal to authority and try to form your own ideas.>Beethoven certainly never entered into such pathetically personal spheres in his symphBeethoven's expressions can be just as validly criticized: bombastic, excessive and completely detached-from-reality manifestation of joy that can't be realistically applied to the emotional state of a man, modern or not. Even in Beethoven's time, during the premiere of the 7th symphony, audience requested an encore of the allegreto, his most solemn, intrinsic and sorrowful movement.>Because everything in Beethoven's symphonies is immortal and epical, More nonsensical word salad. Mahler's symphonies are just as "immortal" as Beethoven's, evidently.>because his artistry was second rate. I'm sure you meant first rate?>Mahler's large-scale form in effect breaks down through the unmitigated intensity and unpredictability of the detail.That only shows your unfamiliarity with Mahler's music and lack of understaning of the form. I don't blame you, Mahler is truly hard to digest, comprehend and appreciate.Stop glorying artists like some god-like creatures. They are all human. No different than the rest of us.
I refuse to comply to herd mentality. Never have, never will. /classical/ seems to have problems with individualism. What an intelligent man can do is distinguish between good vs bad art, he does not need to appeal to authority/popularity for that, he can judge independant of all the extramusical, the art itself guides him to the truth. As is common with popsloppers, most classical fans are sheep. They don't have a single sincere thought of their own. That does not apply to all of classical listeners, but a large portion of them. The idea that great composer's music is "unquestionable, incontestable work of a genius" is a flawed romantic ideal, Wagnerian nonsense, and applying it to Beethoven and composers before is even more ridiculous since people of the time would mock your naivety. Everything Beethoven ever composed can be intelligently criticized just as well as the music of Wagner, Schumann, Brahms, Liszt or whoever. Collectivists need to leave and head somewhere else, perhaps Reddit? This is not a place for groupthink and herd mentality. Anyone uttering the word "overrated" or "underrated" likewise doesn't belong, try Reddit.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8T-aM6jmGw
>>128329249It's great music.
>>128330068This but unironically.
>128325624>128325698Butthurt samefag is butthurt. Here's your (You), champ. :)
>>128330489 There was no irony. I was being sincere.>>128330498And a (You) for our resident Scherzophrenic collectivist redditor.
>I have still enough of the Pole left in me to let all other music go, if only I can keep Chopin.-NietzscheChopin is all the music that matters in this universe.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AZaVTm3dKM
>>128329972>Strawman.You, or one of the Mahlerians, stated that Mahler's harmony and orchestration and so forth were more advanced than Beethoven. This is obviously true of most composers after Liszt and Wagner. It has nothing to do with the innate quality of the music itself.>Red herring/nonsense. If that's your idea of nonsense then you're seriously low iq.>Beethoven was a terrible, awful melodistPredictable response, and yet you cannot account for the powerful impact of the opening of Beethoven's 5th. Certainly the most common target of your ilk, a ridiculously simple motif, but it is nonetheless something that the melodic sensibility of no other composer was capable of creating. If we ignore the true diversity of Beethoven's melodic genius, which embraces so much more than just typical Beethovenianisms, we may see that it typically defines itself through the greatest simplicity. The melodies that Beethoven created in his symphonies, even the simplest, no other composer could create. They remain eternal as if carved in stone, assuming archetypal importance in human culture. Insistence on their simplicity as a defect only shows your own stupidity and insensitivity to music.>"Others" as in folk music?Others as in any composer that happens to lie behind one his melodies, whether it be Wagner, Schubert or folk music. A perfectly refined expertise at taking from others. Whereas the distinctively BEETHOVENIAN character of Beethoven's melodies is obvious to all. Because Beethoven was melodically truly original and Mahler was not. Mahler creates schmaltz for teenagers.>You don't understand Mahler. Period.Not an argument.
>>128330962>Tone down your appeal to authority and try to form your own ideas.Lol, you may be too low iq to understand, but refusing to engage with an idea or observation in an argument, for the simple reason that it's not original, is just a very, very obvious copout. There's no justification, you're just running away.>Beethoven's expressions can be just as validly criticized: bombastic, excessive and completely detached-from-reality manifestation of joy that can't be realistically applied to the emotional state of a man, modern or not.The emotional resonance of Beethoven's music is universal, no one Western is capable from escaping the reach of it, you are a product of your culture. To call it bombastic and excessive is dishonest, since before you can even formulate those thoughts his music has already moved you as an authentic expression of your own feelings. But the strangest critique here is referring to his Ode to Joy as 'detached-from-reality'... who on earth HASN'T felt exalted joy? I pity you.>More nonsensical word salad. Mahler's symphonies are just as "immortal" as Beethoven's, evidently.Again, you may just be retarded, or have an atrophied verbal intelligence, if you consider that a word salad.>That only shows your unfamiliarity with Mahler's music and lack of understaning of the form.I am not denying that form is there, obviously. I am referring to the way in which he uses form in such a way that its apparent structure is undermined and the ordinary experience of musical unity is non-existent. You need to understand that complexity and difficulty can just as often be signs of artistic degeneration as of advancement. The genius of Michelangelo or Beethoven, especially Beethoven in his symphonies, would never be without clear lines of large scale perfection.>Stop glorying artists like some god-like creatures. They are all human. No different than the rest of us.Pleb attitude, Mahler would disagree.
>>128330068>The idea that great composer's music is "unquestionable, incontestable work of a genius" is a flawed romantic idealDamn, I didn't know 5th century Greece and 16th century Italy were following a flawed romantic ideal when they described artistic masterpieces as incontestably perfect and divinely inspired. I should get my cultural and aesthetic knowledge from you, you seem to know a lot.
>>128330962>You, or one of the Mahlerians, stated that Mahler's harmony and orchestration and so forth were more advanced than Beethoven.And it remains true. Sophistication of musical language and expressiveness should not be confused with mere "technical advancement".>innate quality of the music itself.Quality of music is nothing but the sum of its parts, and that absolutely includes Mahler's refined language and orchestration.>If that's your idea of nonsenseNo, it is the overall idea of nonsense.>Predictable responseI thought you liked predictability though? Anyway, that's not an argument.>powerful impact of the opening of Beethoven's 5th.No one denies it's powerful. Melodically it's mediocre, if not just awful. Melodicism was not the driving idea of the 5th symphony.>something that the melodic sensibility of no other composer was capable of creating.It's not even" melody" per se, but a motif that just works. You seem to associate its popularity with some non-existent artistic qualities. What's impressive is how Beethoven handles that motif, not the motif itself. Stop wasting my time with nonsensical babble.>that happens to lie behind one his melodies, whether it be Wagner, SchubertWhen the fuck did Mahler use Wagner's melodies? And bringing up Beethoven's mediocre melodicism makes your delusions all the more ridiculous. You seriously lack comprehension of basic musical terminology. Beethoven's motifs are not melodic. >Not an argumentSpeaking of no arguments,you haven't made a single one so far.>>128330970>for the simple reason that it's not originalNo,the reason is simple but not the one you stated: you quotes someone else's opinion to reaffirm your own, ergo you brought a non-entity into discussion to appeal to his perceived authority, not to bring anything new and substantial to the discussion. Your posts can't be taken seriously, you are a collectivist redditor, and redditism is engraved in your mind so deeply there's barely any hope.
>>128330970>>128331124>The emotional resonance of Beethoven's music is universal, [Citation needed]>To call it bombastic and excessive Is a fair critism. No composer shall escape a healthy criticism and artistic critique.>Again, you may just be retarded, Ad hom. Of course, it's hard to make sense of your own word salads, so you run back to logical fallacies. >the ordinary experience of musical unity is non-existent.What is ordinary experience of musical unity? Surely, it predates Beethoven, and any classical music, and we have no basis. You write without thinking.>You need to understand that complexity and difficulty can just as often be signs of artistic degeneration as of advancement.And you need to understand that can be applied to Beethoven just as well as Mahler. But you don't criticise Beethoven, because your mind is incapable of separating art from the artist whose authority and reputation shapes your thoughts, rather than his music.>Pleb attitude>no uReddit drivel. Maybe try reddit next time?
>>128330988>when they described artistic masterpieces as incontestably perfect and divinely inspired.They weren't worshipping artists, but the art itself - which I still disagree with - and it has nothing to do what I said.
>>128331143>They weren't worshipping artists, but the art itselfnta but that's exactly what you were talking about. you said the idea that great composer's music is incontestably great was a romantic idea, but that idea is shown to predate romanticism. i dont know how you think this has nothing to do with what you said.
Anarchically rejecting all hierarchy of values doesn't make you an anti-reddit freethinker, it's actually extremely reddit because every redditor thinks his opinion is valid and original when it's not.
>>128331472what the fuck is "reddit"?
>>128331479don't worry about it kitten
>>128331378>you said the idea that great composer's music is incontestably great was a romantic ideaYes, the keyword here is "great" composer's, as in " it's great because it is by a great composer" as opposed to just "it is great art". This idol worship in classical started during the late romantic era, when art and the artist kind of became "one".
>>128331563but i think the greeks believed everything homer wrote was perfect and that he could do no wrong.
>>128331563>" it's great because it is by a great composer"More often than not that's a logical conclusion, for obvious reasons.
>>128331563No one ITT has said that everything Beethoven or Mozart wrote is perfect and no one in the Romantic period said that either. Enjoy having debates in your head, schizo.
>>128324963nobody here (who is over 21) actually dislikes any of those
>>128331691It seems you're not familiar with the Wagner cult, and the neo Bach cult. The resident redditor certainly implies that regarding Beethoven.
I like Bach's organ works
>>128331713You can't know that. But even if very few people dislike certain great composers, not everone likes them equally either. And pretending that there's something wrong with that reveals the inner collectivist redditor.
In the end, everything is ultimately all about Wagner. He is the prophet. The one who will guide us to salvation. This planet should turn into a giant place of worship, where everyone comes together dressed in togas to recite and celebrate "Wagner" around a bonfire. The world as Wagner envisioned, a world with merriment and joy. All people regardless of color, culture and race united in one spirit.>>128330068Such hate and anger you contain inside yourself. You are worse than that damned Telramund. /Classical/ is filled with pure people, we won't yield to evil or the hate spewed by vile nietzscheans.
>>128331847you brought up reddit to make a point so I immediately deleted anything you said from my memory
now playingstart of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 28 in A Major, Op. 101https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBdv4WnaeUs&list=OLAK5uy_m_afPa6Mlu26qm3BjKrYKKDCFhkrLRxAo&index=88start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 29 in B-Flat Major, Op. 106 "Hammerklavier"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zu8l_K-mvtc&list=OLAK5uy_m_afPa6Mlu26qm3BjKrYKKDCFhkrLRxAo&index=91start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 30 in E Major, Op. 109https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLmpiorMoiE&list=OLAK5uy_m_afPa6Mlu26qm3BjKrYKKDCFhkrLRxAo&index=95start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 31 in A-Flat Major, Op. 110https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grYi2YzUwGk&list=OLAK5uy_m_afPa6Mlu26qm3BjKrYKKDCFhkrLRxAo&index=97start of Beethoven: Piano Sonata No. 32 in C Minor, Op. 111https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR3QoLtWrRs&list=OLAK5uy_m_afPa6Mlu26qm3BjKrYKKDCFhkrLRxAo&index=99https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_m_afPa6Mlu26qm3BjKrYKKDCFhkrLRxAo
RachAnon, what do you think of Moravec's Chopin?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QR13DX8dngU&list=OLAK5uy_l_iULdcBT8oi8i2qd_d_Dlrubw8qWeXUI&index=10
>>128332726All that was only devised for convincing the masses, and people like ourselves recoil from it just as one would recoil from too garish a fresco. What concern have we with the irritating brutality of the overture to the "Tannhauser"? Or with the Walkyrie Circus? Whatever has become popular in Wagner's art, including that which has become so outside the theatre, is in bad taste and spoils taste. The "Tannhauser" March seems to me to savour of the Philistine; the overture to the “Flying Dutchman” is much ado about nothing; the prelude to “Lohengrin” was the first, only too insidious, only too successful example of how one can hypnotize with music (—I dislike all music which aspires to nothing higher than to convince the nerves).
I like Scarlatti
>>128331846samehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFZ4dM1vvSg&list=OLAK5uy_lw9ws71vfHUXqZcJUKHqLfgeqVVJzhp0Y&index=2
>>128333049truhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4CRehHjnlQ&list=OLAK5uy_n-fngEzBRWufLHD7IYle_7QbXjcI_wHs4&index=16
For today's performance of Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, we listen to a recording by Alexandra Papastefanou.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA2V2LuwB0k&list=OLAK5uy_nXZrYRnTHOmXSsccwZXvgIi3nSrOp-etE&index=73
>>128333453don't look at me like that woman
Karajan!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKUkquBHRWg&list=OLAK5uy_nhN2Yat-dAC08OfZn3tg16DTkXr__iEcE&index=5
>>128331846i love the contemplative chorale preludes, but the heavier virtuoso stuff i find hard to take
>>128332976Not bad. To get into specifics: I like some aspects of his interpretations, specifically the coda and the polyrhythm passages in 4th ballade, he has a unique feel for the textures, I think, but generally a bit too sterile, and I'm not a fan of his 3rd for example, he's making some strange, unnecessary pauses inbetween chords. The barcarolle is not bad, but not my favorite, I can't say for sure, but I feel he misplaces rubatos in left hand. Somehow he fails to make grand impression. His nocturnes are also hit or miss, his 48/1 is alright, but his op.62 nocturnes are boring.
>>128333453very affected. love her nose though.
>>128333661Thank you.
>>128333758What do you think about this one movement piece by Webern:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdhrMcfTxNc&list=OLAK5uy_lTFXn7iZUmtFAfGoo66sU7ziXSZi1Udbg&index=7It's quite lovely.
>>128333049>NOOOOOOO YOU CANT LIKE ALL THESE "NICHE" COMPOSERS THAT AREN'T BACH, MOZART OR BEETHOVEN BECAUSE... BECAUSE YOU JUST CAN'T OKAY!!!
Ehm...FUCK bachFUCK mozartFUCK beethovenThat is all *drops mic*
>>128328757>suppose any shitty sketch artist being able to attain photorealism today is automatically a superior painter to Botticelli, because Botticelli couldn't create photorealismThat would be correct actually
>>128328768Wagner moved on?
>>128334208i like bach :(
I like Froberger
>>128329356Good post my guy, thanks for contributing
>>128333049Which of his pieces has the best counterpoint?
>>128333910Love it.
>the best counterpointFor me, it's the agitato section of the op.62 no.2 (the last Chopin nocturne). Sublimest melody, syncopated accompaniment, almost groovy, and a beautiful canon in the middle. A short section lasting 7 bars, worth all the piano music combined.Insanely good performance by Moiseiwitsch:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK4z0iM-VxUDrives me crazy.
>>128329249I like it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBfnlrKjizgPDQ Bach who?
>>128329249I like the Great Fairy Fountain theme the best. I've only played the first three games though
Shamelessly indulging in chromatic sludgegasms.
>>128335897the Op. 62 Nocturnes are transcendently good
>>128335095K. 69
Hold on a sec-what's this?
>>128338764source: trust me broalso>be named Carl>name my son Karlwas this guy insecure about the letter C? lmao
>>128338796https://rictornorton.co.uk/beethove.htm#:~:text=Beethoven%20almost%20certainly%20had%20unconscious,over%20possession%20of%20the%20boy.
>>128338901nice try but I'm gonna have to see those letters in autographs before I would even dream of entertaining such notions
>>128338764Fred Phelps was right about everything.
>when its time for the daily reminder
>Today I will remind themBABAB>DAILY REMINDER>DAILY REMINDERIAAAAhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyWOIKCtjiw&list=RDKyWOIKCtjiw&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLugJIWdpCM&list=RDtLugJIWdpCM&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-utT-BD0obk&list=RD-utT-BD0obk&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cxx7Stpx7bU&list=RDcxx7Stpx7bU&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCoOqsxLxSo&list=RDkCoOqsxLxSo&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sgjwiadze1w&list=RDSgjwiadze1w&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ44z_ZqzXk&list=RDOQ44z_ZqzXk&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGyBRbbHpno&list=RDpGyBRbbHpno&start_radio=1 [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed] [Embed]
>average BABIAA listenerWe will disarm and subdue every 18th-19th century heretic that would put on a Mozart Piano concerto or Chopin NocturneWe are the Mockers of MozartWe put a chokehold on classicismWe are the Cuckolders of ChopinWe are the Rapists of RomanticsWe are the murderers of MahlerWe strike fear in every pretentious and neurotic writer of 1 hour symphonies
>Listening to Bach>not listening to Mozart>Listening to Marais>Not listening to Haydn>Listening to Ravel>not listening to Mahler>listening to Stravinsky>not listening to Schoenberg or ShostakovichIs there a better feeling in this world?
>Your Romanticism>My Foot>Your Classicism>My FistI will crush the Mozart enjoyers, and liberate the Chopin listeners with Vivaldi, Josquin, and Perotin
>Bach>Machaut>Ives>Marais>Buxtehude>Stravinsky>Reich>BartokNo Mozart, No Brahms, No Haydn, No MahlerNo Autistic Teutonic spirit shall oppress or taint the Gallic, Latin, and Slavic soul
Mozart gives me the ick,As does Brahms, Mahler, early-middle Beethoven, Bruckner, Chopin, Schumann, Strauss II, Hindemith, Schoenberg, Reger, Berg, Tchaikovsky, Boulez, Stockhausen, Haydn, Bruch, Salieri, Shostakovich, Clementi, and ProkofievThat is all
>when they listen to Mozart and Haydn concertos and completely neglect the Sun Kings court>When they listen to vocal works by Verdi, Rossini or Puccini, but not Palestrina or the Franco-Flemish School>When they don't listen to Marin Marais more frequently than Beethoven or Brahms>No Perotin or Medieval Music
>If it ain't BAROQUE, don't fix it>I dumped her because she BAROQUED my heart>I had to go to the doctor because I BAROQUED my leg in a gondola accident>I would go to the concerto with you, but I'm BAROQUE>The Baroque BAROQUED the renaissance mold
Remember not all Romantics are bad but all bad composers do tend be Romantic, except for Classical, all Classical composers are shitBelow is a list of acceptable Romantics:>Field>Chabrier>Franck>Tarrega>Wagner*>Any of the Russian 5>Grieg>Alkan>Late Beethoven
NO MOZARTNO CHOPINNO MAHLERALL ROMANTICS SCRAM!ALL CLASSICISTS EAT SHIT AND DIETHIS THREAD IS FOR MARIN MARAIS!SONATA FORM SHOULD DIEONLY CONCERTO GROSSO FOR I!HAYDN IS LIKE A ROTTEN WHEATWHAT I NEED IS A BACH CELLO SUITEBACH AND BEFORE, IVES AND AFTER
>>128335897>>128337427More like transcendently neurotic
average iq of mahler fanboys on display
Bachhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa_2bPMboTY&list=OLAK5uy_neBrMZtn7-TB3Pu94iBfJbjDFvCefeBM0&index=11
>>128339694Mahler is good but his fans are insufferable.
>>128339450>Is there a better feeling in this world?Scriabi's Diner
>>128340520I heard the pancakes at Scriabi's Diner are excellent.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QXnJMTLWkg&t=460
now playingstart of Prokofiev: Sonata for Violin Solo in D Major, Op.115https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_dtRSfnsBM&list=OLAK5uy_mcZTcAxItm_zfWqPPf7g6Zw9w5mYRDd2g&index=2start of Prokofiev: Sonata for Violin and Piano No. 1 in F Minor, Op. 80https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtY1R8_6JuI&list=OLAK5uy_mcZTcAxItm_zfWqPPf7g6Zw9w5mYRDd2g&index=5start of Prokofiev: Five Melodies for Violin and Piano, Op. 35bishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXSdbkK0vbc&list=OLAK5uy_mcZTcAxItm_zfWqPPf7g6Zw9w5mYRDd2g&index=9start of Prokofiev: Sonata for Two Violins in C Major, Op.56https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4pVZur9Ec8&list=OLAK5uy_mcZTcAxItm_zfWqPPf7g6Zw9w5mYRDd2g&index=14start of Prokofiev: Sonata for Violin and Piano No. 2 in D Major, Op.94ahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieORgOd_xs8&list=OLAK5uy_mcZTcAxItm_zfWqPPf7g6Zw9w5mYRDd2g&index=17https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_mcZTcAxItm_zfWqPPf7g6Zw9w5mYRDd2gI love Prokfiev's violin pieces, the concertos included. There's nothing else in the repertoire which sounds even close to them. They possess a singular vision and unique, gorgeous aesthetic, as well as successfully representing the modern condition in a way few other composers do.
the chromatic sludge pipeline:Chopin --> Liszt --> Scriabin (point of no return) --> Schoenbergconsider this post a warning. I hope it will be sufficient, for your own sake...
>>128341581what's the antidote?
>>128341604three doses of Haydn sonatas taken daily for a week for stage 2 cases. However, there is no known cure for patients who have reached stages 3 and 4.
this album cover is dope but I can't tell what it's supposed to be -- a ping pong paddle?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSsPOrCKxlo&list=OLAK5uy_luxT48LUZSmBMziQdiJQpHISVrTNaotBI&index=15
>>128341581I'm down the pipeline listening to Webern, but Chopin is still my favorite dose of the sludge.
>>128341581Missing someone betwene Liszt and Scriabin, no?
>Scriabin said of himself: "I was once a Chopinist, then a Wagnerist, now I am only a Scriabinist."
>>128342054kek what a demon
let's end the day with<----https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5M1CzFY76Y&list=OLAK5uy_m6E_PDRdhbHMAiygEgYDk6odAS70wDxuQ&index=33
^ anon has ended his day with|
>>128342035there are no harmonic innovations in the music of Wagner (pbuh) that cannot already be found in Liszt.
forget opera, I wish every composer had a few ballets
>>128341581I think I've reached the end.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSmGem7QQnA
>>128342054Based.
>>128342307I think we need a more subtle understanding of innovation. You can't make equivalent the Parsifal third act prelude and the late works of Liszt, even though they both push harmony to the furthest degree. I've said this before and I'll say it again, harmonic innovation is not one dimensional. It doesn't just move up and down in terms of more or less innovative, there are many innovative things to be done with it and I think that is apparent with pretty much all of the great harmonists.
Wagner died for our sins.
Wagner invented photons.
Wagner is the protagonist of human history.
W
Chopin saved humanity.
>The beauteous naked man is the kernel of all Spartanhood; from genuine delight in the beauty of the most perfect human body - that of the male - arose that spirit of comradeship which pervades and shapes the whole economy of the Spartan State. This love of man to man, in its primitive purity, proclaims itself as the noblest and least selfish utterance of man's sense of beauty, for it teaches man to sink and merge his entire self in the object of his affection. . . . The higher element of that love of man to man consisted even in this: that it excluded the motive of egoistic physicalism. Nevertheless it not only included a purely spiritual bond of friendship, but this spiritual friendship was the blossom and the crown of the physical friendship. The latter sprang directly from the delight in the beauty, aye in the material bodily beauty of the beloved comrade.The Art-work of the Future (1849)
>>128343778retards will think this is about gay sex when really it is more like webm rel
What do you guys think of Hogwood and AOAM?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEAMzWgbpew
>>128343778Chopin has written gayer things.
>>128344029yeah, like his compositions.
>>128344029>>128344044Don't compare our savior to a mere mortal whose operas say less in 16 hours than the lord's creations in 6 minutes.
Wagner.
>>128344143I'm not a Wagnerite but I think the classical community needs to grow up and accept that Wagner is a greater composer than Chopin.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLKDYjKVt0M
>>128344280Oh, you're a Wagnerite.
>Again, of Beethoven and Mozart Wagner said: “As far as fugues are concerned, these gentlemen can hide their heads before Bach. They played with the form, wanted to show they could do it too, but he showed us the soul of the fugue. He could not do otherwise than write in fugues.”
>About Mendelssohn, Wagner said: “Mendelssohn is a great landscape-painter, and his palette has a richness that is unequalled. No one else transposes the external beauty of things into music as he does. The Cave of Fingal, among others, is an admirable picture. He is able, conscientious, and clever. Yet, in spite of all these gifts, he fails to move us to the depths of the soul: it is as if he painted only the appearance of sentiment and not sentiment itself.” On February 8, 1876, Wagner’s wife Cosima wrote: “In the evening an amateur concert, Mendelssohn’s Reformation Symphony, the second movement makes Richard think of Tetzel: “When the money in the cashbox rings, the soul at once to heaven wings.” Tetzel was a 15th Century Catholic monk who sold indulgences. This rhyme was a popular saying satirizing Tetzel.
Is it good to listen to Wagner's overtures in isolation as my introduction to them, or is it better to listen to them as part of their respective operas first?
>>128344450You can do whatever you want. If you like operas, then listen to them. I myself prefer just overtures and instrumental music.
>>128344450Everyone starts with the overtures and excerpts in isolation. They all work as stand alone pieces.
>>128344565>I myself prefer just overtures and instrumental music.
>>128324508Whats a good set of books to learn composition?
>>128344596I don't think it's unfair to dislike the modern singing techniques of Opera. But anything mid-20th century is totally listenable. I'd blame that sentiment on people who listen to the first recording they find of any given work and don't think further..
>>128344596The reason for this is your failure in grasping the story. You don't even need to learn the language, just understand what the story is, then listen to arias. Slowly and steadily you will start enjoying Operas.
>>128344657Unfortunately a significant chunk of classical fans are autistic and cannot enjoy theatre.
Thoughts on Ludwig Hoelscher?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTOqzlpe1yc
>>128344819You gotta be autistic to enjoy theater
>>128344847Maybe with modern actors that are a parody of what they should be, but not traditional theatre actors that aimed at being entertaining and emotionally expressive.
Let us step back from the Twentieth Century, into the latter half of the Nineteenth Century where the battle between Zeus and Prometheus was still an upfront fight. The last Classical musical Promethean was Johannes Brahms, and all that was needed by the British Empire (et al.) was Brahms’ death in 1897 to unleash horrors upon humanity. However, the stage was set before Brahms’ death. For us today, like Brahms, the mission to create new relations among nations, to bring about a human creative world, is a continuous battle for the soul and mind of mankind. This was the same passionate mission which inspired Beethoven, Mendelssohn, Schubert, the Schumanns, and Brahms, to transform mankind from the grip of one of the most evil Zeusians of music, Franz Liszt, and his ally Richard Wagner.
>>128345232Uhhh, shouldn't Brahms be the Zuesian and Liszt the Promethean?
>>128345232>>128345260Johannes Brahms, the last of the musical geniuses alive, set the standard for all humanity—all of his other friends were dead, and he carried with him the responsibility, passion, love for future generations, to know (not to just understand) what is it that makes us human. Once he had died, the standard-bearer was no longer there, and within three years of his death—hell was let loose with the Twentieth Century. But, much to the dismay of the British Empire and Wall Street, there were individuals, who rose to the occasion from the destruction of the Twentieth Century—Lyndon LaRouche, Wilhelm Furtwängler, Norbert Brainin, Albert Einstein, Vladimir Vernadsky, and Max Planck.
>>128345302Brahms was both a true patriot of his country, Germany, and a universal citizen of the world. He was a close friend of Chancellor Bismarck, It was known that Brahms’ library contained Bismarck’s letters and speeches, some of which he carried with him on trips. He openly spoke of Bismarck, and the need for German unity, which he would celebrate in his musical compositions.There is a famous moment when his young student Gustav Jenner enlisted in his regiment, and Brahms is on record saying to Jenner: “I cannot say how I envy you. If I were only as young as you are I should go with you at once, but that too I missed.”Brahms’ library was rich with every aspect of Classical life from Schiller, Lessing, Goethe, Aeschylus, Homer, Sophocles. “His contact with pioneers of medical science kept him abreast of the latest developments. His close friendships with Billroth and Engelmann account for his owning a copy of Billroth’s Surgical Letters and Engelmann’s Experiments on the Microscopic Changes in Muscle Contraction: indeed, he would observe, along with the students, Billroth’s pioneering surgery at the University Hospital in Vienna. The worlds of scientific invention earned his attention as well, and he was interested in the introduction of electricity in Vienna and the development of the Edison system.”Without Franz Liszt, and his ally Richard Wagner, the destruction of the Twentieth Century would not have been possible. The long fingers of Liszt reached across the centuries, into both the United States and Europe. It was the spinoffs of Liszt that helped to shape the Twentieth Century destruction, with the aid of others yet to come.
>>128345346The eulogy that Liszt wrote upon the death of his loyal ally Napoleon III speaks for itself:“Magnanimous heart, all encompassing mind, practical, gentle, and generous character—and sinister fate! A hamstrung and garroted Caesar—but moved by a breath of the divine Caesar, ideal personification of the earthly empire!. . . I believed sincerely . . . that Napoleon’s government was the most suited to the needs and progress of our times. He gave great examples, and accomplished or attempted great deeds. . . . However terrible it was, his final disaster does not erase them! When justice comes—France will bring back his coffin to place it in glory next to that of Napoleon I, in the Church of the Invalides!. . . the Emperor filled his life with the constant exercise of those most synonymous sovereign virtues: charity, goodness, liberality, generosity, magnificence, munificence. . . . his gratitude to those who had done him some favor. . . . I try to imitate him himself, blessing his memory and praying for him to the God of mercies who has made nations capable of healing.”This eulogy was no spur-of-the-moment action. Franz Liszt was close to Napoleon and his circles for many years. Liszt would not only visit Napoleon, but Liszt’s son-in-law, Émile Ollivier, was an aide to Napoleon whom Liszt would confer with for political objectives. Let there be no misunderstanding—Franz “Zeus” Liszt was a political operative of the British Empire—and his music speaks to this directly. Liszt and his side-agent of influence Richard Wagner, deployed every moment to destroy the true spirit and passion of the creative nature of man
>>128345380The battle of the late Nineteenth Century was clear to Brahms, and the circle of his collaborators, and for them, the epistemological and political battle was one. As Liszt and Wagner through their music created a degenerate, pessimistic mankind—pissing on all the great minds that came before; i.e., J.S. Bach, Mozart, Beethoven, Schiller, Leibniz, Kepler—Brahms and the Schumanns created the optimistic creative mankind, with the passion and love for the future. According to Brahms’ good friend George Henschel:. . . “a volume of the ‘Forty-Eight’ was invariably open on the piano of his apartment. When Henschel noticed it, Brahms commented, ‘With this I rinse my mouth every morning.’ And when Brahms sat down to play to others, it was invariably the ‘Forty-Eight’ that came to mind. . . .”Brahms, like those in his circle of friends, and Beethoven and Mozart before, returned to the master J.S. Bach. Brahms et al. were driven by the science of the human mind—by the creative spirit of lawful “universal principles,” by the creation of truth as expressed in metaphor.
>>128345404“His interpretation of Bach was always unconventional and quite unfettered by traditional theory, and he certainly did not share the opinion, which has had many distinguished adherents, that Bach’s music should be performed in a simply flowing style. In the movements of the Suites he liked variety of tone and touch, as well as a certain elasticity of ‘tempo’. His playing of many of the preludes and some of the fugues was a revelation of exquisite poems, and he performed them not only with graduated shadings but with marked contrasts of tone, effect. Each note of Bach’s passages and figures contributed, in the hands of Brahms, to form melody which was instinct with feeling of some kind or other. It might be deep pathos or light-hearted playfulness and jollity; impulsive energy or soft and tender grace’ but sentiment (as distinct from sentimentality) was always there: monotony never. ‘Quite tender and quite soft’ was his frequent admonition to me, whilst in another place he required the utmost impetuosity.“Brahms particularly loved Bach’s suspensions. ‘It is here that it must sound,’ he would say, pointing to the tied note and insisting, whilst not allowing me to force the preparation, that the latter should be so struck as to give the fullest possible effect to the dissonance. ‘How am I to make this sound?’ I asked him of a few bars of a subject lying for the third, fourth and fifth fingers of the left hand, which he wished brought out clearly, but in a very soft tone. ‘You must think particularly of the fingers with which you play it, and by and by it will come out,’ he answered.”
>>128345430On the other hand, Franz Liszt showed his clearly his hatred for mankind, and was notorious for pounding so hard on the piano, that he was constantly breaking strings, and would often need a second piano during his performances!The assassination of President Sadi Carnot of France, contrary to popular myth, was not just carried out by a bunch of anarchists. This was deployed by the British Empire, as was the Dreyfus Affair, as was the dismissal of Chancellor Bismarck of Germany. France now became the center for musical pessimism; anything created by J.S. Bach, Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, and Brahms was written out of history. Springing up everywhere in Paris was the insanity of Berlioz, Satie, Ravel, Fauré, Saint-Saëns, Debussy, D’Indy, Princess Polignac (nee Winnaretta Singer of the Singer Sewing Machine Family). Why do I say insanity? Because their music has left the domain of human creativity. They are the successors of the insanity of Franz Liszt and this Zeusian school.Franz Liszt created a cult around him whether at his shrine in Weimar, in Paris, or wherever he went. His sidekick Wagner, and the Bayreuth orgies of his operas, provided a central place for this network of early fascists to reside. By 1888-1896 Debussy, Bernard Shaw to Maurice Barres would come together at Bayreuth. The working relationship between Debussy and Barres continued in the 1900s.Ask yourself, what happens when you destroy truth and universal principles? Since J.S. Bach’s creation of the Well-Tempered Bel Canto art of musical composition, the standard was set for music. J.S. Bach lived in the domain of Plato, Cusa, Kepler, and Leibniz. Bach created through his compositions a living “future of the future.”
>>128345448Ideas for Bach, like those who developed these universal principles—i.e., Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert, Clara and Robert Schumann, and Brahms—were not contained in the notes, or fixed intervals or harmonic relations. The principle of metaphor was their domain—in which you could only know truth through the paradoxes they created, in their mind and soul, to yours. If you try to literally play or sing the notes on the page, you will have become the “practical man” that the Empire wants you to be—a good slave to kill yourself, and all of humanity. For Bach et al., they were continuing to create new universal harmonies, from the one in their mind. The future was their guide, taking your mind and soul to higher resolutions throughout their compositions. This was not true for Franz Liszt, Richard Wagner, Berlioz, Strauss, Satie, Ravel, Debussy, Fauré, Saint-Saëns, and those who came after them. For them there is no future, no longer an understanding of the immortality of our mankind—reaching to create breakthroughs to develop a higher power of mankind in the universe—no universal principles, no hypothesis. All they are left with is a smelly pessimism and a feeling of failure—and what we have in today’s culture is the bottom of this pit.Vienna was no different. In fact, Vienna was Brahms’ last battleground, where he lived out the remaining years of his life, and was in direct battle with Wagner (died 1883), Liszt (died 1886), Mahler, Bruckner, Freud, and Boltzmann.
Nice Wikipedia/ChatGPT spam.What an absolute embarrassment of an edition, even by our already low standards.
Just got home from the clinic, what to start the day with...
As much as I love Prokofiev's music, his string quartets are so bad. Anyone here actually like them?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4mNb5XkW70
now playingstart of JS Bach: Violin Partita No. 1 in B Minor, BWV 1002https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osOBV4joxQM&list=OLAK5uy_kLkpNkbOcl0ViqhggSYBP6PNo2KXq_dNk&index=6start of JS Bach: Violin Sonata No. 2 in A Minor, BWV 1003https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_M1wVNFVgI&list=OLAK5uy_kLkpNkbOcl0ViqhggSYBP6PNo2KXq_dNk&index=14start of JS Bach: Violin Partita No. 2 in D Minor, BWV 1004https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_nkimStPN0&list=OLAK5uy_kLkpNkbOcl0ViqhggSYBP6PNo2KXq_dNk&index=17https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_kLkpNkbOcl0ViqhggSYBP6PNo2KXq_dNkThe second of Tetzlaff's three cycles of Bach's Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin. This one, along with the first, easily ranks among the best modern cycles of these masterpieces. The third set I'm not quite sure where I stand yet, and I know some here don't like it. Well, this one is impossible to dislike, it just does everything well and the tone is gorgeous. Highly recommended.
>>128324508I'm in my Bartók era rn He looks so cute in this pic :3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iaprGXqViY
>>128346340I thought about listening to some of his string quartets just now but they do literally nothing for me emotionally, and musically I don't quite get them yet (hence wanting to listen to them).
Favorite recording(s) of Brahms' Piano Sonata No. 3, Op. 5?
I've been using Bach's Goldberg Variations to fall asleep lately, as was intended in its composition, and it's actually been working quite well.
I can't help that I'm currently obsessed with the Old Testament (Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier) and New Testament (Beethoven's Piano Sonatas) of piano classical music. They're just too good, and not only that but they cover such a wide array of emotions with spiritual depth that they're good for any time of day, any kind of mood, no matter what you're desiring.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO0LoT6VEyE
>>128340520>>128341267Scriabi's Deli : )
>>128346468>Old Testament (Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier)It's certainly as exciting as the Old Testament
>>128346559...a seminal masterpiece and cornerstone of literature? (KJV of course)
>>128346573Have you read the Old Testament recently?Not the most exciting bookhttps://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2010&version=KJVThe part about the Tabernacle is truly interminable
>>128330068>doesn't mention mahler>posts scriabinyou're guilty of what you are criticizing, you believe that scriabin etc are geniuses and that their music is good in the same way that other people think beethoven etc are geniuses and that their music is good
>>128346559>>128346692Exodus is pretty exciting ngl. Which prelude and fugue is the Exodus of WTC?
you guys should post more contemporary classical
>>128346692I do skim over if not outright skip over the genealogy segments admittedly.
>>128346573What's the obsession with KJV that anglos have? It's an impressive translation for it's time. But I refuse to believe in like 4 centuries there has not been a SINGLE better english version made.
>>128346761I dare you to read Exodus 24 to about 40 and call that exciting. Try just Exodus 26 if you want to get an idea.
>>128330068Bruckner only had to transcribe 1 movement of his symphonies to piano and it blew all of the slavic output out of the water with his German spirit.https://youtu.be/4zVQvvvX9pUB.
>>128346866>What's the obsession with KJV that anglos have?The poetry.>But I refuse to believe in like 4 centuries there has not been a SINGLE better english version made.For accuracy, sure. For poetry, no.
>>128346778feel free, I would love if someone did
>>128346778I'll listen to any tonal contemporary orchestral work thrown at me that doesn't rely on some retarded gimmick, tried really hard to find a contemporary composer in that field which I liked but didnt get much. Doesn't need to sound neo-romantic. Just needs to be structured and well written.
here's some contemporary classicalPer Nørgård - Symphony No. 3https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuYC6mZAXfwIt sounds exactly as you'd expect it to. Granted, not all of his symphonies sound like that, but it's not an unfair representation.
>>128346697..what?
Bruckner 7:Sanderling > Celibidache >> JochumWho else should I listen to?
>>128347400Someone posted that Clair Jensen a few threads ago and that was really good
>>128347178https://youtu.be/13D1YY_BvWU
>>128346573 it isn't nearly as boring as the partitas
Which composers were alcoholics?
>>128347619Karajan (Vienna and Berlin), Skrowaczewski, Maazel, Barenboim, Bohm
>>128348702carl michael bellman
